Episode 2648： A WarRoom Easter Special Part 2
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Summary
In this episode, Fr. Dr. . joins us to talk about courage and what it means to be a Christian in a time of increasing persecution of christians, and how Christians can prepare for what is to come and how to prepare for it.
Transcript
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okay it's 8 april on the year of our lord 2023 it is holy saturday the um traditional uh christ
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descent into hell to um to i guess dr williams it would be to free the uh the pagans and the uh
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and the jews and others that had been uh had been in limbo uh prior to his uh death and resurrection
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you make a a big you make a a strong argument in the book about this persecution of christians
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is going to get a lot nastier a lot more dangerous and what is to come you single out courage as as
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the one of the virtues or the virtue that we have to depend upon but can you walk our audience
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through on this holiest of all days in the uh you know good friday and holy saturday the most somber
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of all days in the christian calendar uh what is to come and how can they help to prepare for it
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well i you know i i think courage is so important because it's it's like the forgotten virtue of our
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day it used to be something that was front and center of classical civilization they would talk
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about the four cardinal virtues prudence justice fortitude intemperance fortitude courage this
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ability to stand fast in the face of opposition is something that we hear very very little about
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today everything is supposed to be easy if it if it hurts you take a pill if it bothers you lie down
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take a time out do whatever it is we don't realize that you know a big part of human life and a big
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part of christian life is being willing to stand up to opposition it's being willing
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to stay in the fray even when your life's on the line even when you know your your personal property
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your personal goods your personal well-being are all on the line uh and and courage is a virtue boy
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i mean holy week and and good friday that we just lived is rife with us look at jesus on the cross i mean
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that's for our admiration yes our gratitude yes but also that's an example of the witness the the the
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the faithfulness unto death that christians are called to to live um and this is something this
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is this is our model it's our role model of what it means to actually live our faith to the full and i
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think that this is something it's very daunting it's very scary uh it's something that's very even
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repugnant to our nature we don't want that uh and yet at the same time i think we know that we're
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called this is a part of what it means to be christians we have to fight the good fight
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like saint paul said as he neared the end of his life you know i've finished the race i've run the
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race i fought the good fight and now i await the the reward that's coming to me um you know would
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that we could all say that would that we could reach the end of our lives and say i did i finished
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the race i stayed in the game i played it to the end and and i won uh this is what we're called to
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and whether that means praying for our persecuted brothers and sisters whether it means praying for
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ourselves and the strength to endure whatever we're going to be asked whether it means uh you
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know fighting for religious liberty which pope john paul ii called the cornerstone of the edifice
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of human rights you know this sense of restoring it to its proper place is america's first liberty
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religious freedom uh and a willingness also to push for that all around the world you know these
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are there there's a great challenge for us as christians right now not to back away not to hide in a
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hole but to go out on the streets and to proclaim the truth and to live the truth and to be willing
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to stand up to the opposition that is trying to beat it down do you believe that the white persecution
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that the harassment of daily life and and thwarting opportunities and all that is going to get more
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intense and and lead to transition over to the red type of martyrdom or the red persecution as seen in
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the covenant school because the covenant school should be a bellwether of the people that is like a
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should be like a fire bell in the night those kids were specifically targeted by a student that had gone
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there and who who who is from everything we read had intensely devout christian parents that her
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hatred of christianity her hatred of this faith that's why they won't release the manifesto it had to be
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quite deep it is your fear that we transition from an intensifying white persecution which is
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obviously horrible in itself to a a form of uh of a red persecution or red martyrdom i mean i think
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signs of it are all around us and i think that we're living in a time of accelerated transformation
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of society and especially with regard to the way christians are perceived in the way christians
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are treated um i mean look at a couple examples here look at the fbi since when does the fbi
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target use rico laws against peaceful protesters outside an abortion clinic the way we've been we've
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been seeing the last couple years since when does the fbi uh have an internal memo saying we're going
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to be targeting those who go to the latin the traditional latin mass because they have a high
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propensity to become christian nationalists and white supremacists and so we're going to target them
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despite the fact that obviously there is zero evidence of this so when you're militarizing
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our security forces against the american people and against those who take their christian faith
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seriously whether it's because they're upholding the moral truth of the dignity of the human person
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or whether it's because they want to worship in a way that that is dignified and and does honor to
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their god and they're targeted by government for this i mean and what is that if not an indication that
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it's open season if the government will do that that also is an indication to regular citizens hey
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it's a free-for-all now you can do this because these this group is no longer something that should
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be tolerated the way that they're living um no i think there are signs all around and i think as you
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mentioned this um the covenant school shooting was horrific it's a very good example of especially
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the way that it's reported on and looked upon and justified um no it's going to get worse
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and it's going to get bloodier how can people uh take a couple of minutes and tell us how people
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how can christians prepare i mean i i think we have to do what christians have always done we we need
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to remember in the first place remember the martyrs this do this in memory of me this idea of looking
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back and of drawing strength from our heroes uh the saints uh in in every tradition in every christian
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tradition the saints are our heroes they are the ones they are heaven's athletes they are the ones who
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have fought the fight they are the ones who have won uh won the battle and we need to look to them for
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inspiration we need to look to them um as role models of what we're called to be in this world why is it
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that we're alive today what is it that is our task in the world today why are we living now and not 200
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years ago not 200 years in the future if we're christian believers we know that god has us here
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for a reason and we're called to live in this time in this historic moment because we have a job to do we
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have a mission and i think that becoming more and more aware of that informing ourselves about the
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situation of what's going on and taking it upon ourselves shoulder and shoulder with our brothers and
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sisters to fight that good fight and to stand firm and to proclaim the truth both of the gospel but
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also of the need for respect and religious freedom which is again our first freedom i think that is what
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is is incumbent upon us today do you believe that this transition you say it's rapidly transforming you
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think this you're going to see this in the united states an acceleration of this process here in this
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country oh i i i think we're already seeing it um and it's something you remember cardinal francis
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george who was a wonderful archbishop of chicago and died maybe 10 years ago 15 years ago but he
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said something while he was alive he said i'm going to die in my bed my successor will die in prison and
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his successor will die as a martyr he foresaw and this was before uh i wasn't seeing what i'm seeing today
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uh even 15 years ago the again the accelerated pace of transformation and the way christians are
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now looked upon as as bigots and homophobes and enemies of of right-thinking society yeah i think
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we're seeing this develop at such a rate that we're going to see martyrdom in our lifetime
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the book is uh very chilling but uh for the two most somber days of uh good friday and uh holy saturday
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it is something that people ought to delve into how do people get to the book the coming christian
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persecution tom and how do people follow you on social media and get to more of your writings
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so uh i have a website thomasdwilliams.com uh you can find this book it's it's published by
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sofia institute press and their uh their division called crisis publications you can find it on their
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website it's also available on amazon and wherever books are sold um and uh people can follow me on i'm
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still only on twitter i'm behind the times i have to get out get with getter uh but on twitter i can
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be followed at td williams rome well thank god that you have not been uh you have not been thrown off
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there thank you for joining us from rome today and by the way sofia institute press just incredible
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everybody should go to the site particularly over this weekend you'll see just incredible a variety of
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just great writing from great writers and great thinkers uh tom great to have you on here uh the book is
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very chilling um and i think only tom williams could have written it very very chilling very
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analytical very powerful so thank you for doing that sir well great talking to you steve and god
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bless you have a beautiful easter um and all the best to you and yours thank you dr tom williams from
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rome uh very powerful uh particularly for dr williams who is not a person to waste his time
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for him to focus over the last couple years on a very very disturbing book and i think that's why
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the um the covenant school as we have said in this increasing language about christian you know all
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the all these conservative christians traditional christians are really christian nationalists it's
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it's what they call the stochastic terrorism they're trying to associate christianity and uh
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and traditional catholicism with something sinister uh something very sinister and that's
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why they're making an open target open season on christians the covenant school um shooting this
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covenant school massacre in particular the way it's been covered uh is uh example enough you just have
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to look at the the the heroism of those children and it's not even talked about the christianity part
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and i haven't talked about and the targeting they won't release the manifesto okay um what we're
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going to play when we come back from break and then the break after that is that we had a interview
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with dr taylor marshall he was on the show last night but last year in our special i had dr taylor
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marshall and uh the part of it was so good and so powerful what i want to do was to replay this so
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we're going to come back from break you're going to get to uh you're going to get an opportunity to see
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that um a very and another incredible uh original thinker that we're very uh privileged and very
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honored uh to have over this weekend and this is why uh it's a time of rejuvenation particularly
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obviously easter sunday um we must gird ourselves here it's a time for reflection a time for deep
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reflection i think good friday and holy saturday are being the two of the most somber and uh more
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meaningful uh days on the christian calendar it's a perfect weekend to do that and that's why we
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have traditionally since we started the war room uh done this show and done it over you know good
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friday evening and then um and then holy saturday to make sure that we really start to think this
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through because at the end of the day this is a spiritual war we yes we talk a lot about the
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economy we talk a lot about the geopolitical situation we talk about taking down the chinese
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communist party so much of this gets back to the spiritual struggle remember in in the great fight
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against the chinese communist party in in the great fight against the what you see is this what i call
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the legion of doom whether it's in persia whether it's in you know saudi arabia or turkey or pakistan or
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you know north korea particularly with the kgb in russia and the ccp in beijing uh the leadership
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this is and they're either radically opposed to christianity or deeply atheistic and you're seeing
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this is the power of tom williams book because in the west right now you're seeing this suppression
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in oppression of christianity what he calls white martyrdom he goes back to the fathers of the church
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to explain that but that can transition into red martyrdom and you saw that in the uh in the covenant
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shooting and very very disturbing so i want to make sure everybody we're going to have a special
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um we're going to pull up the interviews i did with dr taylor marshall next and then i'll be back
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uh to walk through i think the meaning of those uh of those interviews and then talk about uh the rest
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of the weekend obviously a very incredible intensive time um for the people of the united states for the
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catholic church for the christian church for all of it okay we're gonna take a short commercial break
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when we return we're going to have uh dr taylor marshall my interview with dr taylor marshall
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on descent into hell and his great uh his great and very deep thinking uh i want to thank uh sofia
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institute press for making dr williams uh available we got him uh for the better part of the show from
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rome it was just incredible i cannot state enough either get the book or go to a site and read if you
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and i don't know money's tight but go to his site and to understand uh what is going on here particularly
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in his uh detailed explanation of how the first century and the second century church were
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persecuted why they were persecuted the options that were offered as far as accommodation that
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that would get you off the hook and he relates it to to modern man and to the modern world okay
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short commercial break i'll be back with dr taylor marshall only in the war room
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it's uh good friday our good friday special it's one of the uh if not the most solemn day of the
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year in christianity of course it's also passover we've had specials all week during holy week and
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passover week i want to thank dr taylor marshall one of the um i think it's safe to say one of the
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more controversial thinkers thought leaders and writers and what i would refer to as the traditional
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catholic church dr marshall do you think this is a time of of uh understanding that it's always
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spiritual warfare against satan but you think particularly today in world events that it's
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actually so much of what we're facing in our country and now what we're facing throughout the
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world this is a time of spiritual warfare most certainly i mean you have in the 1900s more martyrs
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worldwide than all the centuries before that so take from john the baptist in the first century all
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way up to the 1800s there's more martyrs in the 1900s and i think that's been accelerating now in
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the world now we see it's in africa uh you see this with you know muslims coming in through towns
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kidnapping but also murdering many of the people because they're christian uh you've seen this in
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china and in many parts of the world uh egypt north africa these places uh lebanon more and more
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syria uh christians being persecuted you know i was uh last uh a year ago i was with some of the
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the chalcedonian christians from iraq and every single one of them we had dinner at a big table
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uh it was a political event but every single one of them as i was having conversations
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had a relative who was a martyr in the chalcedonian church catholic church in iraq you know they would
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talk about their uncle who was hung from the rafters and i mean these horrible stories and
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how much reverence they had for their people and for their immediate family because each of them had
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a martyr in their family and i mean in america it's so hard for us to even understand that when you get
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baptized when you make the sign of the cross when you say i serve jesus christ christ is my king
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in certain cultures like the culture they came from that puts a target on you when you do that
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you know this could be the end for me i could be murdered for loving christ so most certainly and
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then there's also what we call soft persecution steven this is the pressure that's put on
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christians by the government to compromise their conscience compromise their beliefs compromise their
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families uh the way they raise their children and of course you know i don't have to name all these
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things but whether you're in canada or you're in germany or in certain states in the united states of
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america there is this soft persecution on christians uh in particular families as they're trying to
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navigate our culture wars so so help us out here if you if you go on any sunday and on i'm not
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say most but in a i think a majority of pulpits in a catholic church you're hearing social justice
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warrior material and if you go to a lot of the evangelical churches you're hearing prosperity
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gospel why are christians and catholics not preaching the persecuted church every day because
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our taproot of this religion is the desert fathers it's in you know it's from damascus to antioch
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north africa saint augustine's from north africa the the very basis and taproots even outside the
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holy land has not just been persecuted it's it's been taken over and as you said the the persecution
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of of of christians and catholics in those areas have been monumental as bad as it is with the chinese
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communist party as bad as it is in sub-saharan africa here the basis and foundational elements
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those great monasteries those great churches where the great desert fathers came from is absolutely
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under full-on assault and persecuted and yet it is virtual crickets from the pulpits of catholic
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churches and from the pulpits of evangelical churches with some exceptions dr taylor marshall
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it's the reason that you don't hear it is because i think two reasons first off no one wants to hear
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it you know people want to come on sundays and they want to feel uplifted uh they want to strengthen
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their family they want to see their friends talk about their golf game you know in a mainstream whether
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it's protestant or mainstream novus ordo catholic there's just this sort of idea i'm religious i believe
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in god i'm going to check these boxes i'm going to put in my due i'm going to see my fellow christians
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but don't bother me with the hard teachings of jesus christ like take up my cross and follow
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take up your cross and follow me i mean that's i i mean you and i don't want to do that we don't want
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to go the hard way so hearing about it is not a popular sermon topic i think the second reason why we
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don't hear about it is because other than china most of the persecution that happens against christians
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happens at the hands of those professing the religion of islam it is politically incorrect
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to discuss these things like boca haran and these things in africa where some of the most horrendous
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things are happening at the hands of muslims on christian villages these don't get a lot of
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traction in our news so people don't even know about it uh beheadings and and rapes and kidnappings
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and all kinds of just horrible things i don't think they get the the the traction in our western
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media because of this delicate situation with islam so i think those are the two reasons
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is it is it possible to have a vibrant christianity whether that christianity is reform protestant or
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evangelical christianity or uh traditional catholic unless you unless that church has a more direct
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connection with its desert roots with with where the church came out of which is the middle east
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which is damascus and antioch and north africa uh in egypt can it can it can it can it be vibrant
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and robust and real unless it has that connection i don't think so and i'm glad you brought the desert
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fathers up because the desert fathers were a movement that happened in egypt out in the desert
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after constantine began to turn the roman empire into a christian form of what becomes christendom
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and what happened is is you know before constantine almost all the bishops were being martyred the popes
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were being martyred christians were meeting underground it was a persecuted movement it was
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hard to be a christian when constantine legalized it suddenly there were so many more converts the church
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grew they built beautiful cathedrals and basilicas they had golden crosses and beautiful vestments
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and a lot of the christians who were on that transition there the threshold there between
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the old way which was hard and the new way which was comfortable said you know what we're losing our
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edge as christians we're losing what it means to suffer for jesus christ to to be the servant of a king
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who wears a crown of thorns and so what happened is you see just this explosion of monastic movements
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especially in egypt with the desert fathers and they say we want to restore the the grittiness
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the the suffering the hunger that christians had felt for over for coming up on 300 years at that time
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and they went into the wilderness and they fasted they prayed together they prayed the entire psalms
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every single day all 150 they didn't eat meat they basically were becoming like john the baptist that
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was the model and then there was also women's communities i think you know i was an evangelical
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that connection to that reality was not so strong i didn't encounter it until i became a catholic
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you meet monks you meet nuns who are living that but i think what we have in the catholic tradition in
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the eastern orthodox actually do it better than us right now and that is there are periods of
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suffering periods of penance worked into the year so the most obvious one is lent the 46 days of lent
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before easter we impose on ourselves suffering now it may not be living in the desert it may be
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not eating meat and not drinking alcohol and not turning off all of our screens and not watching tv and
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not watching netflix but we have to deprive ourselves we have to live a good friday in order to get to
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an easter sunday there has to be a crucifixion there has to be a scourging a crowning of thorns before
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you get to the joy and the glory and the beauty of a resurrection and i think that's just built into
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human nature that if we're always in luxury if we're always eating the best food always be
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drinking the best wine we can never really level up in our devotion to god
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is this what uh pope benedict actually said when he took the name benedict is that along the lines of
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the monastic communities he'd rather have or at least the implication was a smaller catholicism
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but a more lived christianity is that what the desert fathers teach us is that the link to what
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at least certain members like pope benedict and others were trying to get out about modern catholicism
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i mean we have a tension here and i think pope benedict is is right but the tension is we want
00:26:34.220
to cast the net wide we want to get as many people in relationship with jesus christ as many people
00:26:39.580
baptize as many people coming to church right but then once we do that there needs to be a system
00:26:46.640
a program that says now here's how you live as a christian you know one of the great things that
00:26:54.740
before vatican ii is all catholics didn't eat meat on friday it made every single friday of the year
00:27:00.800
into a good friday christ gave up his flesh on friday we give up eating flesh on friday and it was this
00:27:07.060
sort of weekly reminder that was communal amongst all catholics hey we kind of have to suffer on
00:27:12.760
friday we don't get the best food we don't get to have hot dogs and burgers or ribeyes once a week
00:27:18.120
and that's just sort of reminding us again that every friday is a good friday every sunday is an easter
00:27:26.700
sunday year round and we constantly have to tell ourselves be humble you're not that important
00:27:33.600
you're going to return to dust one day you're going to be a skeleton you have to deprive yourself so
00:27:39.100
that you can ascend to something greater and that's of course heaven with our lord
00:27:44.760
dr taylor marshall uh short commercial break we're going to return in the good friday our good friday
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okay welcome back we're in the war room and this is our good friday special we're very honored to have dr taylor
00:30:43.640
marshall one of the more i guess controversial thinkers thought leaders writers in the traditional
00:30:49.640
catholic movement tomorrow uh we're going to do uh we're having a special i have jack posobiec
00:30:54.540
will be in studio and also joe allen will be with us who heads up and does all of our work in
00:31:00.480
transhumanism he's also a has a master's degree from boston university in theology where dr martin luther
00:31:06.740
king went uh we're going to be talking about ann catherine emmerich and going through some of her
00:31:11.540
visions and about the descent into hell much more and how this uh this series of books inspired and
00:31:16.760
was the basis for the screenplay for mel gibson's passion of the christ and for his new movie that's
00:31:22.120
going to come out in a year or two on the resurrection dr marshall you've done a lot of
00:31:27.600
work in this area but the descent into hell and going about thomas aquanius and i know in modern
00:31:31.880
particularly in prosperity gospel evangelical christians i'm not picking on them but the
00:31:37.540
prosperity gospel evangelical christians and the social justice warrior um you know christ as a
00:31:43.880
social worker uh catholicism they don't really talk about uh the penitential side of this they
00:31:50.220
don't really talk about uh heaven and hell and in fact when you're with some of these people it's
00:31:55.080
almost like an embarrassment it's you're such a troglodype even bringing it up walk us through
00:31:59.380
your your thoughts about this and the reality of hell and how how central that is to the message of
00:32:04.840
christianity yes so the the message of christianity going back to the earliest days so you'll see this
00:32:13.200
very strongly in catholicism and also in eastern orthodoxy maybe even more in eastern orthodoxy is
00:32:20.220
that in the old testament from adam and eve all the way up to jesus on the cross when the righteous died
00:32:27.700
the faithful died so we're talking about abraham isaac jacob esther sarah rebecca all these old
00:32:36.200
testament people where did they go it was the universal teaching and still is that they didn't
00:32:41.320
go to heaven why because the gates of heaven were closed just like when adam and eve sinned they were
00:32:46.920
kicked out of the garden of eden it was closed off the teaching is when christ died on the cross
00:32:52.100
he opened back up the gates of heaven and so the idea is is just as christ is fully god and fully man
00:32:58.760
he also has a body and a soul his soul descended into hell we say this in the apostles creed a lot
00:33:04.040
of people are like what's going on did christ burn in hell no christ did not burn in hell he went to the
00:33:09.560
lower world in order to proclaim and preach that death had been conquered satan had been defeated and
00:33:18.020
then to transfer the old testament faithful from what's called limbo have you ever heard waiting
00:33:25.160
in limbo this is the idea waiting in limbo also called abraham's bosom and bring them to heaven and
00:33:31.120
this is recorded several times in the new testament for example at first peter 3 19 saint peter the
00:33:37.100
apostle says christ coming in spirit preach to those spirits that were in prison and quote so peter's
00:33:44.140
talking about the death of christ the resurrection of christ and right in the middle of this he throws in
00:33:47.760
this idea that christ in his soul in his spirit descended to the underworld and preached preached
00:33:56.060
the gospel presumably and saved them also peter and acts says the same thing that christ went and
00:34:02.400
loosed the sorrows of hell he went down in there so it's not the idea that christ has to suffer in hell he
00:34:09.720
doesn't go into the fires of hell there are sections of hell in jewish theology and in catholic and orthodox
00:34:15.620
theology there's a purgative area which we call purgatory where you actually can get out of people
00:34:21.040
pray for you and you suffer there's gehenna or jehenna which in jewish theology also in catholicism
00:34:26.820
is the is the hell of the dam you never get out it's horrible that's where satan is so the idea is
00:34:32.340
these people are waiting in limbo christ descends into hell as a victor triumphant all the eastern icons
00:34:40.360
the the western images of this is christ trampling down the gates of hell he's standing on the gates
00:34:46.520
and he's reaching out to adam and eve and all the people in there and pulling them out why because
00:34:53.280
on good friday he died on the cross and the veil in the temple tore from top to bottom you see this
00:34:59.380
in mel gibson's passion of the christ it's beautifully done what does that mean it means the gates of heaven
00:35:03.980
the entry to the holy of holies which was separated by veil is ripped by whom god god rips it from top
00:35:10.900
to bottom and now humans through jesus christ because he died for our sins can again enter into
00:35:18.520
communion with god in the holy of holies in heaven so this mystery is called the harrowing of hell
00:35:24.200
is the proper theological term the harrowing of hell is celebrated on holy saturday it's this mystery that
00:35:30.960
in quietness christ descended as a victor and rescued the old testament faithful abraham all of them
00:35:38.720
and brings them to heaven it's a it's a beautiful thing uh it's part of our theology going back to the
00:35:46.220
earliest days of the church sadly it's something that most people don't talk about they do good
00:35:51.160
friday jesus died they do easter he rose again but that mystery of the what goes on in the parenthesis
00:35:57.380
deserves our attention because it's in the new testament well let me go because this is obviously
00:36:03.180
would be one of the foundational and most important parts of a religion but it is controversial two
00:36:08.700
things number one there was a huge fight of whether even to keep it into the creed so that this has been
00:36:14.540
a fight of the just the phrase descended into hell the other was did he go to hell to suffer as you just
00:36:21.000
talked about or did he go in victory so so take both of them why was it so controversial that was going
00:36:26.720
to be part of the apostles creed and i said taken it what was the controversy that even the early
00:36:33.540
christians it seemed like the theologians were divided about this very concept and then i want
00:36:39.860
to go to the concept that did he go to suffer and bear the suffering of the damned or did he go in
00:36:45.000
victory to free the damned yeah so in the former you have early manuscripts of the apostles creed that
00:36:51.060
have into hell he descended into hell and don't have it and as you say to the nicene creed
00:36:56.060
does not have this mystery if he descended into hell the reason for this is it's when you look at
00:37:03.460
greek and when you look at latin there are so we have the word hell in english when you go into the
00:37:07.800
ancient languages in hebrew you have sheol which just means basically underworld or grave area
00:37:13.660
in greek you have hades you have jehenna you have tartarus um you have all these different
00:37:21.380
words for it and so the popular mind hears that and they're thinking like if i say to you go to hell
00:37:28.020
that's bad i'm telling you to go suffer to go burn on fire in a lake of fire forever so that phrase
00:37:34.720
phraseology can be scandalous to people however as it was worked out and it was explained christ did not
00:37:41.700
descend into hell to suffer he descended as a victor triumphant destroying the gates of hell
00:37:48.560
destroying the works of satan the pomps of satan so once that theology is clear it's it's it's
00:37:56.280
mainstream now unfortunately steve the jesuit theologians in the 40s and 50s and 60s primarily
00:38:06.000
with a jesuit theologian father balthazar he worked out a theology that is considered by many to be
00:38:12.920
heretical he says that christ descended into hell hang on hang on i just want to say he's also one
00:38:19.140
of the more prominent jesuit theologians overall but particularly jesuits correct correct i mean he's
00:38:25.500
yeah he's in the top of the last hundred years he's in the top three so he's very influential yeah
00:38:31.300
yes and he's very liberal i mean extremely liberal he's the one who says we should hope that all men be
00:38:37.060
saved and part of that theology is related to the fact that he teaches i this is not catholic there's
00:38:43.040
been dissertations written on it that christ ascended into hell and had solidarity with the damned
00:38:48.900
it's his phrase work there is no church father there is no one in the catholic or eastern tradition
00:38:56.180
who will ever say that this was something new in the 1900s that christ ascended into hell and had
00:39:01.320
solidarity with the dam he had solidarity with judas he had solidarity with pharaoh he had solidarity
00:39:07.080
with everybody and this gives you the hope the jesuits teach that all will be saved and i've i've
00:39:15.860
spent a lot of time podcasting writing uh you know writing articles trying to show that there is
00:39:23.340
nothing in the early church that has this idea because it it basically borders on christ suffering in
00:39:29.220
hell that he's entering into the realm of the doubt was the connection they were trying to make is that
00:39:35.180
he was in solidarity with the suffering of fallen man was i mean that the concept that they were trying
00:39:40.140
to push yeah but but particularly with the damned so traditionally christ comes to the hades to the
00:39:50.100
underworld and he says abraham isaac jacob sarah you you looked forward you didn't fully understand
00:39:57.580
who i was going to be or what i was going to do but you believed and you looked into the future
00:40:01.960
and you placed your hope into a messiah that is me you are believing in me you are saved that was the
00:40:09.320
traditional teaching in the 1900s no one wants to believe in hell no one wants to believe in damnation
00:40:16.280
this is all embarrassing to social justice warriors this is the part of christianity they don't like
00:40:21.000
so in order to sort of scrub it away they say well christ when he descended to hell he actually
00:40:26.640
descended he was with all the damn people and they kind of just had this solidarity or like this group
00:40:31.460
hug of jesus and all the damned and so we can kind of insinuate from that that he also saved all the
00:40:36.960
damned as well and that's the problem goes give us this concept again of the harrowing of hell what
00:40:44.480
is hair what does that actually mean harrowing i believe uh refers to it's a uh agricultural term
00:40:54.140
so you're you're sort of bringing up or you know like as you prepare earth and bring things up i
00:41:02.760
believe that's the original context i should be wrong and so you know in ancient culture that's
00:41:07.700
sort of how they understood you know christ kind of goes down into the earth and brings up from the
00:41:14.100
earth you know these ancient saints from the old testament so that's the harrowing of hell
00:41:19.780
one of the things that you've kind of dedicated your life to as a as a convert first of really
00:41:25.160
as a convert to christianity and then as a convert from more of the evangelical or protestant to
00:41:30.560
catholic and then to the catholic to the most traditional side is how the church itself has
00:41:37.040
gotten away from its root teachings and it needs to get back to more of a traditional side we've got
00:41:42.360
about a minute here before we go to break walk us through that why are you so focused you talk about
00:41:46.760
the infiltration of the of the church is this magnificent book you wrote and i recommend
00:41:51.400
everybody read it right infiltration um you uh you you're very much going back to source teachings
00:42:01.140
and source documents in a catholic church that used to be this way and you're saying that the catholic
00:42:06.540
church more probably than any other religious institution has lost its way i tell you what let's
00:42:12.820
wait and we'll come through the break because i want to make sure you get a lot of runway on this
00:42:15.840
because it's uh the infiltration and haven't spent a lot of time in rome in the vatican uh this book
00:42:22.300
will chill you to the bones um there's been other books that have led up to this um but this book is is
00:42:29.900
quite harrowing and uh very scary and uh just came out a year or two ago so dr taylor marshall
00:42:37.240
we're gonna take a short commercial break we're gonna return in just a moment
00:45:35.780
You know, we really, these specials are very important to us, whether they're Memorial Day or Fourth of July, you know, the patriotic holidays that we put a lot of time and effort into, the team does, really, too.
00:45:52.260
We think this is particularly important, as we talked about throughout the show and then with Dr. Taylor Marshall last night.
00:45:58.300
But given the massacre at the Covenant Christian School, we are in a different time.
00:46:06.100
And I think it's very appropriate for traditional Catholics and for our Christian audience to think about in the two most reflective and somber days in the Christian calendar, Good Friday and Holy Saturday, exactly what the meaning of all this is.
00:46:26.120
To, obviously, all of our Jewish audience with the traditional Passover.
00:46:31.120
But there's something we've really crossed over into something I think is quite dangerous and quite dark.
00:46:36.940
That's what we had Dr. Williams on here about his amazing book, The Coming Christian Persecution, and to relate it back to the beginnings of the Christian faith and particularly to the persecutions by the official apparatus of the Roman state and this concept of accommodation.
00:46:54.200
And this is why with Dr. Marshall last night and then today to talk about you cannot – this issue of accommodation is going to be a bigger and bigger issue as you go forward.
00:47:04.600
You have the white form of being a martyr, which is the harassment every day and the thwarting of you professionally and the deplatforming of you and making sure you don't have opportunities.
00:47:15.840
And then that can transfer over to, obviously, the much more dangerous, the red martyrdom.
00:47:22.700
I mean, the Covenant School situation, you can't look away from that.
00:47:26.560
In fact, you've got to get down and you've got to make sure you fully understand it and it's exposed for what it is.
00:47:32.280
So I really want to thank Sophia Institute for making available Dr. Tom Williams from Rome for the last couple of hours and always Dr. Taylor Marshall always makes himself available and has such a great and tremendous following.
00:47:46.420
For our audience, the next couple of weeks as people get back – not next week, but we'll be going through it in depth – but the following week, the intensity is going to pick up on the political and the cultural side.
00:47:59.160
But I think it's – this is the weekend to be with family.
00:48:02.960
This is the weekend to, you know, understand your faith, to spend time with your faith, to spend time with divine reading and things that draw you closer to your – to whatever angle of attack you take on your faith, whether you're evangelical Protestant, mainstream Protestant, of the Jewish faith or traditional Catholic.
00:48:25.280
So we really want to thank everybody for joining us here.
00:48:29.240
We're going to be back live on Monday with the firing off the football.
00:48:35.720
Over the weekend, I'll be updating everybody on Getter.
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Also, and if you can support our sponsor, the great Mike Lindell.
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And Mike Lindell's Christianity is something to behold.
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I've seen this guy put under incredible pressure, not just business pressure, political pressure, but also legal pressure, and the way he just comes through with that great smile and that great attitude.
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We always do these shows that are kind of very – I don't want to say dark, but very – we try to get into the issues that maybe we don't get a chance to talk about in the spiritual warfare of every day in the war room.
00:49:26.580
I want to thank the production team in Denver that always goes out of the way to work with us on these specials.
00:49:31.400
I want to thank my production team here in the nation's capital and wherever we roam for putting this together.
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It's not exactly traditional religious music, but I think it's some of the most powerful music out there.
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So we can go ahead and we'll end the show with that.
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Also have a great Easter Sunday with the family.
00:50:04.500
And we'll see you back here in the war room live 10 a.m. Eastern Daylight Time here at Real America's Voice in the war room.
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