Bannon's War Room - Episode 2648： A WarRoom Easter Special Part 2

00:00:00.000 okay it's 8 april on the year of our lord 2023 it is holy saturday the um traditional uh christ

00:00:22.800 descent into hell to um to i guess dr williams it would be to free the uh the pagans and the uh

00:00:31.600 and the jews and others that had been uh had been in limbo uh prior to his uh death and resurrection

00:00:37.460 you make a a big you make a a strong argument in the book about this persecution of christians

00:00:44.460 is going to get a lot nastier a lot more dangerous and what is to come you single out courage as as

00:00:51.080 the one of the virtues or the virtue that we have to depend upon but can you walk our audience

00:00:55.940 through on this holiest of all days in the uh you know good friday and holy saturday the most somber

00:01:02.080 of all days in the christian calendar uh what is to come and how can they help to prepare for it

00:01:07.420 well i you know i i think courage is so important because it's it's like the forgotten virtue of our

00:01:14.080 day it used to be something that was front and center of classical civilization they would talk

00:01:19.100 about the four cardinal virtues prudence justice fortitude intemperance fortitude courage this

00:01:25.200 ability to stand fast in the face of opposition is something that we hear very very little about

00:01:32.000 today everything is supposed to be easy if it if it hurts you take a pill if it bothers you lie down

00:01:37.380 take a time out do whatever it is we don't realize that you know a big part of human life and a big

00:01:43.320 part of christian life is being willing to stand up to opposition it's being willing

00:01:47.560 to stay in the fray even when your life's on the line even when you know your your personal property

00:01:54.500 your personal goods your personal well-being are all on the line uh and and courage is a virtue boy

00:02:00.940 i mean holy week and and good friday that we just lived is rife with us look at jesus on the cross i mean

00:02:07.680 that's for our admiration yes our gratitude yes but also that's an example of the witness the the the

00:02:15.100 the faithfulness unto death that christians are called to to live um and this is something this

00:02:21.240 is this is our model it's our role model of what it means to actually live our faith to the full and i

00:02:27.960 think that this is something it's very daunting it's very scary uh it's something that's very even

00:02:33.000 repugnant to our nature we don't want that uh and yet at the same time i think we know that we're

00:02:39.120 called this is a part of what it means to be christians we have to fight the good fight

00:02:42.700 like saint paul said as he neared the end of his life you know i've finished the race i've run the

00:02:48.640 race i fought the good fight and now i await the the reward that's coming to me um you know would

00:02:54.780 that we could all say that would that we could reach the end of our lives and say i did i finished

00:02:59.680 the race i stayed in the game i played it to the end and and i won uh this is what we're called to

00:03:06.460 and whether that means praying for our persecuted brothers and sisters whether it means praying for

00:03:11.920 ourselves and the strength to endure whatever we're going to be asked whether it means uh you

00:03:16.600 know fighting for religious liberty which pope john paul ii called the cornerstone of the edifice

00:03:21.540 of human rights you know this sense of restoring it to its proper place is america's first liberty

00:03:27.340 religious freedom uh and a willingness also to push for that all around the world you know these

00:03:32.760 are there there's a great challenge for us as christians right now not to back away not to hide in a

00:03:38.280 hole but to go out on the streets and to proclaim the truth and to live the truth and to be willing

00:03:44.980 to stand up to the opposition that is trying to beat it down do you believe that the white persecution

00:03:52.700 that the harassment of daily life and and thwarting opportunities and all that is going to get more

00:03:58.900 intense and and lead to transition over to the red type of martyrdom or the red persecution as seen in

00:04:06.440 the covenant school because the covenant school should be a bellwether of the people that is like a

00:04:10.720 should be like a fire bell in the night those kids were specifically targeted by a student that had gone

00:04:16.920 there and who who who is from everything we read had intensely devout christian parents that her

00:04:25.660 hatred of christianity her hatred of this faith that's why they won't release the manifesto it had to be

00:04:32.240 quite deep it is your fear that we transition from an intensifying white persecution which is

00:04:38.940 obviously horrible in itself to a a form of uh of a red persecution or red martyrdom i mean i think

00:04:47.540 signs of it are all around us and i think that we're living in a time of accelerated transformation

00:04:52.460 of society and especially with regard to the way christians are perceived in the way christians

00:04:57.580 are treated um i mean look at a couple examples here look at the fbi since when does the fbi

00:05:03.760 target use rico laws against peaceful protesters outside an abortion clinic the way we've been we've

00:05:09.900 been seeing the last couple years since when does the fbi uh have an internal memo saying we're going

00:05:16.040 to be targeting those who go to the latin the traditional latin mass because they have a high

00:05:21.700 propensity to become christian nationalists and white supremacists and so we're going to target them

00:05:26.720 despite the fact that obviously there is zero evidence of this so when you're militarizing 0.78

00:05:31.460 our security forces against the american people and against those who take their christian faith

00:05:37.400 seriously whether it's because they're upholding the moral truth of the dignity of the human person

00:05:42.640 or whether it's because they want to worship in a way that that is dignified and and does honor to

00:05:47.640 their god and they're targeted by government for this i mean and what is that if not an indication that

00:05:54.900 it's open season if the government will do that that also is an indication to regular citizens hey

00:06:01.580 it's a free-for-all now you can do this because these this group is no longer something that should

00:06:07.260 be tolerated the way that they're living um no i think there are signs all around and i think as you

00:06:12.440 mentioned this um the covenant school shooting was horrific it's a very good example of especially 1.00

00:06:17.760 the way that it's reported on and looked upon and justified um no it's going to get worse

00:06:23.680 and it's going to get bloodier how can people uh take a couple of minutes and tell us how people

00:06:30.660 how can christians prepare i mean i i think we have to do what christians have always done we we need

00:06:38.160 to remember in the first place remember the martyrs this do this in memory of me this idea of looking

00:06:44.200 back and of drawing strength from our heroes uh the saints uh in in every tradition in every christian

00:06:51.900 tradition the saints are our heroes they are the ones they are heaven's athletes they are the ones who

00:06:57.680 have fought the fight they are the ones who have won uh won the battle and we need to look to them for

00:07:03.300 inspiration we need to look to them um as role models of what we're called to be in this world why is it

00:07:10.140 that we're alive today what is it that is our task in the world today why are we living now and not 200

00:07:16.800 years ago not 200 years in the future if we're christian believers we know that god has us here

00:07:22.360 for a reason and we're called to live in this time in this historic moment because we have a job to do we

00:07:28.120 have a mission and i think that becoming more and more aware of that informing ourselves about the

00:07:33.200 situation of what's going on and taking it upon ourselves shoulder and shoulder with our brothers and

00:07:37.960 sisters to fight that good fight and to stand firm and to proclaim the truth both of the gospel but

00:07:44.360 also of the need for respect and religious freedom which is again our first freedom i think that is what

00:07:50.420 is is incumbent upon us today do you believe that this transition you say it's rapidly transforming you

00:07:57.780 think this you're going to see this in the united states an acceleration of this process here in this

00:08:02.260 country oh i i i think we're already seeing it um and it's something you remember cardinal francis

00:08:08.820 george who was a wonderful archbishop of chicago and died maybe 10 years ago 15 years ago but he

00:08:14.480 said something while he was alive he said i'm going to die in my bed my successor will die in prison and

00:08:21.100 his successor will die as a martyr he foresaw and this was before uh i wasn't seeing what i'm seeing today

00:08:28.900 uh even 15 years ago the again the accelerated pace of transformation and the way christians are 0.95

00:08:35.220 now looked upon as as bigots and homophobes and enemies of of right-thinking society yeah i think

00:08:41.820 we're seeing this develop at such a rate that we're going to see martyrdom in our lifetime

00:08:46.380 the book is uh very chilling but uh for the two most somber days of uh good friday and uh holy saturday

00:08:55.340 it is something that people ought to delve into how do people get to the book the coming christian

00:08:59.620 persecution tom and how do people follow you on social media and get to more of your writings

00:09:04.000 so uh i have a website thomasdwilliams.com uh you can find this book it's it's published by

00:09:12.340 sofia institute press and their uh their division called crisis publications you can find it on their

00:09:17.540 website it's also available on amazon and wherever books are sold um and uh people can follow me on i'm

00:09:24.980 still only on twitter i'm behind the times i have to get out get with getter uh but on twitter i can

00:09:30.040 be followed at td williams rome well thank god that you have not been uh you have not been thrown off

00:09:37.400 there thank you for joining us from rome today and by the way sofia institute press just incredible

00:09:41.940 everybody should go to the site particularly over this weekend you'll see just incredible a variety of

00:09:47.520 just great writing from great writers and great thinkers uh tom great to have you on here uh the book is

00:09:53.760 very chilling um and i think only tom williams could have written it very very chilling very

00:09:58.680 analytical very powerful so thank you for doing that sir well great talking to you steve and god

00:10:04.460 bless you have a beautiful easter um and all the best to you and yours thank you dr tom williams from

00:10:12.740 rome uh very powerful uh particularly for dr williams who is not a person to waste his time

00:10:18.420 for him to focus over the last couple years on a very very disturbing book and i think that's why

00:10:24.060 the um the covenant school as we have said in this increasing language about christian you know all

00:10:31.240 the all these conservative christians traditional christians are really christian nationalists it's

00:10:35.380 it's what they call the stochastic terrorism they're trying to associate christianity and uh

00:10:41.340 and traditional catholicism with something sinister uh something very sinister and that's

00:10:47.560 why they're making an open target open season on christians the covenant school um shooting this

00:10:53.840 covenant school massacre in particular the way it's been covered uh is uh example enough you just have

00:11:00.180 to look at the the the heroism of those children and it's not even talked about the christianity part

00:11:05.300 and i haven't talked about and the targeting they won't release the manifesto okay um what we're

00:11:11.980 going to play when we come back from break and then the break after that is that we had a interview

00:11:17.260 with dr taylor marshall he was on the show last night but last year in our special i had dr taylor

00:11:22.900 marshall and uh the part of it was so good and so powerful what i want to do was to replay this so

00:11:29.760 we're going to come back from break you're going to get to uh you're going to get an opportunity to see

00:11:33.980 that um a very and another incredible uh original thinker that we're very uh privileged and very

00:11:41.300 honored uh to have over this weekend and this is why uh it's a time of rejuvenation particularly

00:11:48.360 obviously easter sunday um we must gird ourselves here it's a time for reflection a time for deep

00:11:54.800 reflection i think good friday and holy saturday are being the two of the most somber and uh more

00:12:01.380 meaningful uh days on the christian calendar it's a perfect weekend to do that and that's why we

00:12:06.080 have traditionally since we started the war room uh done this show and done it over you know good

00:12:11.080 friday evening and then um and then holy saturday to make sure that we really start to think this

00:12:17.220 through because at the end of the day this is a spiritual war we yes we talk a lot about the

00:12:20.620 economy we talk a lot about the geopolitical situation we talk about taking down the chinese 1.00

00:12:25.420 communist party so much of this gets back to the spiritual struggle remember in in the great fight

00:12:32.720 against the chinese communist party in in the great fight against the what you see is this what i call

00:12:37.700 the legion of doom whether it's in persia whether it's in you know saudi arabia or turkey or pakistan or

00:12:43.780 you know north korea particularly with the kgb in russia and the ccp in beijing uh the leadership

00:12:50.200 this is and they're either radically opposed to christianity or deeply atheistic and you're seeing

00:12:57.980 this is the power of tom williams book because in the west right now you're seeing this suppression

00:13:03.080 in oppression of christianity what he calls white martyrdom he goes back to the fathers of the church

00:13:08.060 to explain that but that can transition into red martyrdom and you saw that in the uh in the covenant

00:13:14.120 shooting and very very disturbing so i want to make sure everybody we're going to have a special

00:13:18.180 um we're going to pull up the interviews i did with dr taylor marshall next and then i'll be back

00:13:23.640 uh to walk through i think the meaning of those uh of those interviews and then talk about uh the rest

00:13:29.780 of the weekend obviously a very incredible intensive time um for the people of the united states for the

00:13:35.900 catholic church for the christian church for all of it okay we're gonna take a short commercial break

00:13:39.860 when we return we're going to have uh dr taylor marshall my interview with dr taylor marshall

00:13:46.160 on descent into hell and his great uh his great and very deep thinking uh i want to thank uh sofia

00:13:53.100 institute press for making dr williams uh available we got him uh for the better part of the show from

00:13:59.120 rome it was just incredible i cannot state enough either get the book or go to a site and read if you

00:14:05.300 and i don't know money's tight but go to his site and to understand uh what is going on here particularly

00:14:11.120 in his uh detailed explanation of how the first century and the second century church were

00:14:18.300 persecuted why they were persecuted the options that were offered as far as accommodation that

00:14:23.360 that would get you off the hook and he relates it to to modern man and to the modern world okay

00:14:28.000 short commercial break i'll be back with dr taylor marshall only in the war room

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00:16:48.480 it's uh good friday our good friday special it's one of the uh if not the most solemn day of the

00:16:55.000 year in christianity of course it's also passover we've had specials all week during holy week and

00:17:00.600 passover week i want to thank dr taylor marshall one of the um i think it's safe to say one of the

00:17:06.360 more controversial thinkers thought leaders and writers and what i would refer to as the traditional

00:17:11.880 catholic church dr marshall do you think this is a time of of uh understanding that it's always

00:17:18.280 spiritual warfare against satan but you think particularly today in world events that it's

00:17:23.240 actually so much of what we're facing in our country and now what we're facing throughout the

00:17:26.960 world this is a time of spiritual warfare most certainly i mean you have in the 1900s more martyrs

00:17:36.640 worldwide than all the centuries before that so take from john the baptist in the first century all

00:17:43.260 way up to the 1800s there's more martyrs in the 1900s and i think that's been accelerating now in

00:17:49.320 the world now we see it's in africa uh you see this with you know muslims coming in through towns 1.00

00:17:54.620 kidnapping but also murdering many of the people because they're christian uh you've seen this in 0.91

00:17:59.680 china and in many parts of the world uh egypt north africa these places uh lebanon more and more

00:18:08.740 syria uh christians being persecuted you know i was uh last uh a year ago i was with some of the

00:18:15.640 the chalcedonian christians from iraq and every single one of them we had dinner at a big table

00:18:22.360 uh it was a political event but every single one of them as i was having conversations

00:18:27.000 had a relative who was a martyr in the chalcedonian church catholic church in iraq you know they would

00:18:34.340 talk about their uncle who was hung from the rafters and i mean these horrible stories and

00:18:40.000 how much reverence they had for their people and for their immediate family because each of them had

00:18:45.600 a martyr in their family and i mean in america it's so hard for us to even understand that when you get

00:18:52.380 baptized when you make the sign of the cross when you say i serve jesus christ christ is my king

00:18:57.580 in certain cultures like the culture they came from that puts a target on you when you do that

00:19:04.200 you know this could be the end for me i could be murdered for loving christ so most certainly and

00:19:11.160 then there's also what we call soft persecution steven this is the pressure that's put on

00:19:17.140 christians by the government to compromise their conscience compromise their beliefs compromise their

00:19:25.760 families uh the way they raise their children and of course you know i don't have to name all these

00:19:30.920 things but whether you're in canada or you're in germany or in certain states in the united states of

00:19:35.700 america there is this soft persecution on christians uh in particular families as they're trying to

00:19:43.120 navigate our culture wars so so help us out here if you if you go on any sunday and on i'm not

00:19:51.980 say most but in a i think a majority of pulpits in a catholic church you're hearing social justice

00:20:00.200 warrior material and if you go to a lot of the evangelical churches you're hearing prosperity

00:20:04.800 gospel why are christians and catholics not preaching the persecuted church every day because

00:20:12.420 our taproot of this religion is the desert fathers it's in you know it's from damascus to antioch

00:20:18.320 north africa saint augustine's from north africa the the very basis and taproots even outside the

00:20:24.600 holy land has not just been persecuted it's it's been taken over and as you said the the persecution

00:20:32.340 of of of christians and catholics in those areas have been monumental as bad as it is with the chinese 1.00

00:20:39.340 communist party as bad as it is in sub-saharan africa here the basis and foundational elements

00:20:45.300 those great monasteries those great churches where the great desert fathers came from is absolutely

00:20:50.300 under full-on assault and persecuted and yet it is virtual crickets from the pulpits of catholic

00:20:57.900 churches and from the pulpits of evangelical churches with some exceptions dr taylor marshall

00:21:03.120 it's the reason that you don't hear it is because i think two reasons first off no one wants to hear

00:21:11.760 it you know people want to come on sundays and they want to feel uplifted uh they want to strengthen

00:21:18.260 their family they want to see their friends talk about their golf game you know in a mainstream whether

00:21:24.680 it's protestant or mainstream novus ordo catholic there's just this sort of idea i'm religious i believe

00:21:32.340 in god i'm going to check these boxes i'm going to put in my due i'm going to see my fellow christians

00:21:37.540 but don't bother me with the hard teachings of jesus christ like take up my cross and follow

00:21:44.360 take up your cross and follow me i mean that's i i mean you and i don't want to do that we don't want 0.99

00:21:49.840 to go the hard way so hearing about it is not a popular sermon topic i think the second reason why we

00:21:57.820 don't hear about it is because other than china most of the persecution that happens against christians

00:22:04.520 happens at the hands of those professing the religion of islam it is politically incorrect

00:22:12.180 to discuss these things like boca haran and these things in africa where some of the most horrendous 0.94

00:22:19.500 things are happening at the hands of muslims on christian villages these don't get a lot of

00:22:25.740 traction in our news so people don't even know about it uh beheadings and and rapes and kidnappings 0.72

00:22:33.960 and all kinds of just horrible things i don't think they get the the the traction in our western

00:22:39.180 media because of this delicate situation with islam so i think those are the two reasons

00:22:45.420 is it is it possible to have a vibrant christianity whether that christianity is reform protestant or

00:22:53.340 evangelical christianity or uh traditional catholic unless you unless that church has a more direct

00:23:00.600 connection with its desert roots with with where the church came out of which is the middle east

00:23:06.400 which is damascus and antioch and north africa uh in egypt can it can it can it can it be vibrant

00:23:13.740 and robust and real unless it has that connection i don't think so and i'm glad you brought the desert

00:23:21.420 fathers up because the desert fathers were a movement that happened in egypt out in the desert

00:23:26.820 after constantine began to turn the roman empire into a christian form of what becomes christendom

00:23:36.020 and what happened is is you know before constantine almost all the bishops were being martyred the popes

00:23:42.780 were being martyred christians were meeting underground it was a persecuted movement it was

00:23:46.960 hard to be a christian when constantine legalized it suddenly there were so many more converts the church

00:23:53.780 grew they built beautiful cathedrals and basilicas they had golden crosses and beautiful vestments

00:23:59.180 and a lot of the christians who were on that transition there the threshold there between

00:24:04.560 the old way which was hard and the new way which was comfortable said you know what we're losing our

00:24:09.460 edge as christians we're losing what it means to suffer for jesus christ to to be the servant of a king

00:24:17.480 who wears a crown of thorns and so what happened is you see just this explosion of monastic movements

00:24:23.520 especially in egypt with the desert fathers and they say we want to restore the the grittiness 0.99

00:24:30.620 the the suffering the hunger that christians had felt for over for coming up on 300 years at that time

00:24:39.040 and they went into the wilderness and they fasted they prayed together they prayed the entire psalms

00:24:44.320 every single day all 150 they didn't eat meat they basically were becoming like john the baptist that

00:24:51.600 was the model and then there was also women's communities i think you know i was an evangelical

00:24:57.160 that connection to that reality was not so strong i didn't encounter it until i became a catholic

00:25:04.700 you meet monks you meet nuns who are living that but i think what we have in the catholic tradition in

00:25:10.920 the eastern orthodox actually do it better than us right now and that is there are periods of

00:25:16.080 suffering periods of penance worked into the year so the most obvious one is lent the 46 days of lent

00:25:22.980 before easter we impose on ourselves suffering now it may not be living in the desert it may be

00:25:29.140 not eating meat and not drinking alcohol and not turning off all of our screens and not watching tv and

00:25:34.680 not watching netflix but we have to deprive ourselves we have to live a good friday in order to get to

00:25:41.940 an easter sunday there has to be a crucifixion there has to be a scourging a crowning of thorns before

00:25:47.320 you get to the joy and the glory and the beauty of a resurrection and i think that's just built into

00:25:54.400 human nature that if we're always in luxury if we're always eating the best food always be

00:25:58.640 drinking the best wine we can never really level up in our devotion to god

00:26:03.940 is this what uh pope benedict actually said when he took the name benedict is that along the lines of

00:26:10.840 the monastic communities he'd rather have or at least the implication was a smaller catholicism

00:26:17.480 but a more lived christianity is that what the desert fathers teach us is that the link to what

00:26:22.900 at least certain members like pope benedict and others were trying to get out about modern catholicism

00:26:28.180 i mean we have a tension here and i think pope benedict is is right but the tension is we want

00:26:34.220 to cast the net wide we want to get as many people in relationship with jesus christ as many people

00:26:39.580 baptize as many people coming to church right but then once we do that there needs to be a system

00:26:46.640 a program that says now here's how you live as a christian you know one of the great things that

00:26:54.740 before vatican ii is all catholics didn't eat meat on friday it made every single friday of the year

00:27:00.800 into a good friday christ gave up his flesh on friday we give up eating flesh on friday and it was this

00:27:07.060 sort of weekly reminder that was communal amongst all catholics hey we kind of have to suffer on 0.87

00:27:12.760 friday we don't get the best food we don't get to have hot dogs and burgers or ribeyes once a week

00:27:18.120 and that's just sort of reminding us again that every friday is a good friday every sunday is an easter

00:27:26.700 sunday year round and we constantly have to tell ourselves be humble you're not that important

00:27:33.600 you're going to return to dust one day you're going to be a skeleton you have to deprive yourself so

00:27:39.100 that you can ascend to something greater and that's of course heaven with our lord

00:27:44.760 dr taylor marshall uh short commercial break we're going to return in the good friday our good friday

00:27:52.800 special here in the war room in just a moment

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00:30:18.140 okay welcome back we're in the war room and this is our good friday special we're very honored to have dr taylor

00:30:43.640 marshall one of the more i guess controversial thinkers thought leaders writers in the traditional

00:30:49.640 catholic movement tomorrow uh we're going to do uh we're having a special i have jack posobiec

00:30:54.540 will be in studio and also joe allen will be with us who heads up and does all of our work in

00:31:00.480 transhumanism he's also a has a master's degree from boston university in theology where dr martin luther

00:31:06.740 king went uh we're going to be talking about ann catherine emmerich and going through some of her

00:31:11.540 visions and about the descent into hell much more and how this uh this series of books inspired and

00:31:16.760 was the basis for the screenplay for mel gibson's passion of the christ and for his new movie that's

00:31:22.120 going to come out in a year or two on the resurrection dr marshall you've done a lot of

00:31:27.600 work in this area but the descent into hell and going about thomas aquanius and i know in modern

00:31:31.880 particularly in prosperity gospel evangelical christians i'm not picking on them but the

00:31:37.540 prosperity gospel evangelical christians and the social justice warrior um you know christ as a

00:31:43.880 social worker uh catholicism they don't really talk about uh the penitential side of this they

00:31:50.220 don't really talk about uh heaven and hell and in fact when you're with some of these people it's 0.61

00:31:55.080 almost like an embarrassment it's you're such a troglodype even bringing it up walk us through 1.00

00:31:59.380 your your thoughts about this and the reality of hell and how how central that is to the message of 0.67

00:32:04.840 christianity yes so the the message of christianity going back to the earliest days so you'll see this

00:32:13.200 very strongly in catholicism and also in eastern orthodoxy maybe even more in eastern orthodoxy is

00:32:20.220 that in the old testament from adam and eve all the way up to jesus on the cross when the righteous died

00:32:27.700 the faithful died so we're talking about abraham isaac jacob esther sarah rebecca all these old

00:32:36.200 testament people where did they go it was the universal teaching and still is that they didn't

00:32:41.320 go to heaven why because the gates of heaven were closed just like when adam and eve sinned they were

00:32:46.920 kicked out of the garden of eden it was closed off the teaching is when christ died on the cross

00:32:52.100 he opened back up the gates of heaven and so the idea is is just as christ is fully god and fully man

00:32:58.760 he also has a body and a soul his soul descended into hell we say this in the apostles creed a lot

00:33:04.040 of people are like what's going on did christ burn in hell no christ did not burn in hell he went to the 0.50

00:33:09.560 lower world in order to proclaim and preach that death had been conquered satan had been defeated and

00:33:18.020 then to transfer the old testament faithful from what's called limbo have you ever heard waiting

00:33:25.160 in limbo this is the idea waiting in limbo also called abraham's bosom and bring them to heaven and

00:33:31.120 this is recorded several times in the new testament for example at first peter 3 19 saint peter the

00:33:37.100 apostle says christ coming in spirit preach to those spirits that were in prison and quote so peter's

00:33:44.140 talking about the death of christ the resurrection of christ and right in the middle of this he throws in

00:33:47.760 this idea that christ in his soul in his spirit descended to the underworld and preached preached

00:33:56.060 the gospel presumably and saved them also peter and acts says the same thing that christ went and

00:34:02.400 loosed the sorrows of hell he went down in there so it's not the idea that christ has to suffer in hell he

00:34:09.720 doesn't go into the fires of hell there are sections of hell in jewish theology and in catholic and orthodox

00:34:15.620 theology there's a purgative area which we call purgatory where you actually can get out of people

00:34:21.040 pray for you and you suffer there's gehenna or jehenna which in jewish theology also in catholicism

00:34:26.820 is the is the hell of the dam you never get out it's horrible that's where satan is so the idea is

00:34:32.340 these people are waiting in limbo christ descends into hell as a victor triumphant all the eastern icons 0.58

00:34:40.360 the the western images of this is christ trampling down the gates of hell he's standing on the gates

00:34:46.520 and he's reaching out to adam and eve and all the people in there and pulling them out why because

00:34:53.280 on good friday he died on the cross and the veil in the temple tore from top to bottom you see this

00:34:59.380 in mel gibson's passion of the christ it's beautifully done what does that mean it means the gates of heaven

00:35:03.980 the entry to the holy of holies which was separated by veil is ripped by whom god god rips it from top

00:35:10.900 to bottom and now humans through jesus christ because he died for our sins can again enter into

00:35:18.520 communion with god in the holy of holies in heaven so this mystery is called the harrowing of hell

00:35:24.200 is the proper theological term the harrowing of hell is celebrated on holy saturday it's this mystery that

00:35:30.960 in quietness christ descended as a victor and rescued the old testament faithful abraham all of them

00:35:38.720 and brings them to heaven it's a it's a beautiful thing uh it's part of our theology going back to the

00:35:46.220 earliest days of the church sadly it's something that most people don't talk about they do good

00:35:51.160 friday jesus died they do easter he rose again but that mystery of the what goes on in the parenthesis

00:35:57.380 deserves our attention because it's in the new testament well let me go because this is obviously

00:36:03.180 would be one of the foundational and most important parts of a religion but it is controversial two

00:36:08.700 things number one there was a huge fight of whether even to keep it into the creed so that this has been

00:36:14.540 a fight of the just the phrase descended into hell the other was did he go to hell to suffer as you just

00:36:21.000 talked about or did he go in victory so so take both of them why was it so controversial that was going

00:36:26.720 to be part of the apostles creed and i said taken it what was the controversy that even the early

00:36:33.540 christians it seemed like the theologians were divided about this very concept and then i want

00:36:39.860 to go to the concept that did he go to suffer and bear the suffering of the damned or did he go in 0.68

00:36:45.000 victory to free the damned yeah so in the former you have early manuscripts of the apostles creed that

00:36:51.060 have into hell he descended into hell and don't have it and as you say to the nicene creed 0.95

00:36:56.060 does not have this mystery if he descended into hell the reason for this is it's when you look at

00:37:03.460 greek and when you look at latin there are so we have the word hell in english when you go into the 1.00

00:37:07.800 ancient languages in hebrew you have sheol which just means basically underworld or grave area

00:37:13.660 in greek you have hades you have jehenna you have tartarus um you have all these different

00:37:21.380 words for it and so the popular mind hears that and they're thinking like if i say to you go to hell 0.95

00:37:28.020 that's bad i'm telling you to go suffer to go burn on fire in a lake of fire forever so that phrase 0.84

00:37:34.720 phraseology can be scandalous to people however as it was worked out and it was explained christ did not 0.98

00:37:41.700 descend into hell to suffer he descended as a victor triumphant destroying the gates of hell

00:37:48.560 destroying the works of satan the pomps of satan so once that theology is clear it's it's it's

00:37:56.280 mainstream now unfortunately steve the jesuit theologians in the 40s and 50s and 60s primarily

00:38:06.000 with a jesuit theologian father balthazar he worked out a theology that is considered by many to be

00:38:12.920 heretical he says that christ descended into hell hang on hang on i just want to say he's also one

00:38:19.140 of the more prominent jesuit theologians overall but particularly jesuits correct correct i mean he's

00:38:25.500 yeah he's in the top of the last hundred years he's in the top three so he's very influential yeah

00:38:31.300 yes and he's very liberal i mean extremely liberal he's the one who says we should hope that all men be

00:38:37.060 saved and part of that theology is related to the fact that he teaches i this is not catholic there's

00:38:43.040 been dissertations written on it that christ ascended into hell and had solidarity with the damned

00:38:48.900 it's his phrase work there is no church father there is no one in the catholic or eastern tradition

00:38:56.180 who will ever say that this was something new in the 1900s that christ ascended into hell and had 0.93

00:39:01.320 solidarity with the dam he had solidarity with judas he had solidarity with pharaoh he had solidarity

00:39:07.080 with everybody and this gives you the hope the jesuits teach that all will be saved and i've i've

00:39:15.860 spent a lot of time podcasting writing uh you know writing articles trying to show that there is

00:39:23.340 nothing in the early church that has this idea because it it basically borders on christ suffering in

00:39:29.220 hell that he's entering into the realm of the doubt was the connection they were trying to make is that

00:39:35.180 he was in solidarity with the suffering of fallen man was i mean that the concept that they were trying

00:39:40.140 to push yeah but but particularly with the damned so traditionally christ comes to the hades to the

00:39:50.100 underworld and he says abraham isaac jacob sarah you you looked forward you didn't fully understand

00:39:57.580 who i was going to be or what i was going to do but you believed and you looked into the future

00:40:01.960 and you placed your hope into a messiah that is me you are believing in me you are saved that was the

00:40:09.320 traditional teaching in the 1900s no one wants to believe in hell no one wants to believe in damnation

00:40:16.280 this is all embarrassing to social justice warriors this is the part of christianity they don't like

00:40:21.000 so in order to sort of scrub it away they say well christ when he descended to hell he actually 0.97

00:40:26.640 descended he was with all the damn people and they kind of just had this solidarity or like this group 0.96

00:40:31.460 hug of jesus and all the damned and so we can kind of insinuate from that that he also saved all the 0.98

00:40:36.960 damned as well and that's the problem goes give us this concept again of the harrowing of hell what

00:40:44.480 is hair what does that actually mean harrowing i believe uh refers to it's a uh agricultural term 0.99

00:40:54.140 so you're you're sort of bringing up or you know like as you prepare earth and bring things up i

00:41:02.760 believe that's the original context i should be wrong and so you know in ancient culture that's

00:41:07.700 sort of how they understood you know christ kind of goes down into the earth and brings up from the

00:41:14.100 earth you know these ancient saints from the old testament so that's the harrowing of hell

00:41:19.780 one of the things that you've kind of dedicated your life to as a as a convert first of really

00:41:25.160 as a convert to christianity and then as a convert from more of the evangelical or protestant to

00:41:30.560 catholic and then to the catholic to the most traditional side is how the church itself has

00:41:37.040 gotten away from its root teachings and it needs to get back to more of a traditional side we've got

00:41:42.360 about a minute here before we go to break walk us through that why are you so focused you talk about

00:41:46.760 the infiltration of the of the church is this magnificent book you wrote and i recommend

00:41:51.400 everybody read it right infiltration um you uh you you're very much going back to source teachings

00:42:01.140 and source documents in a catholic church that used to be this way and you're saying that the catholic

00:42:06.540 church more probably than any other religious institution has lost its way i tell you what let's

00:42:12.820 wait and we'll come through the break because i want to make sure you get a lot of runway on this 0.99

00:42:15.840 because it's uh the infiltration and haven't spent a lot of time in rome in the vatican uh this book

00:42:22.300 will chill you to the bones um there's been other books that have led up to this um but this book is is

00:42:29.900 quite harrowing and uh very scary and uh just came out a year or two ago so dr taylor marshall

00:42:37.240 we're gonna take a short commercial break we're gonna return in just a moment

00:42:40.240 yeah

00:42:46.700 go

00:42:51.920 yeah

00:42:56.500 yeah

00:43:00.180 yeah

00:43:02.300 yeah

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00:45:35.780 You know, we really, these specials are very important to us, whether they're Memorial Day or Fourth of July, you know, the patriotic holidays that we put a lot of time and effort into, the team does, really, too.

00:45:48.160 And then, obviously, the religious days.

00:45:52.260 We think this is particularly important, as we talked about throughout the show and then with Dr. Taylor Marshall last night.

00:45:58.300 But given the massacre at the Covenant Christian School, we are in a different time.

00:46:06.100 And I think it's very appropriate for traditional Catholics and for our Christian audience to think about in the two most reflective and somber days in the Christian calendar, Good Friday and Holy Saturday, exactly what the meaning of all this is.

00:46:26.120 To, obviously, all of our Jewish audience with the traditional Passover. 0.79

00:46:31.120 But there's something we've really crossed over into something I think is quite dangerous and quite dark.

00:46:36.940 That's what we had Dr. Williams on here about his amazing book, The Coming Christian Persecution, and to relate it back to the beginnings of the Christian faith and particularly to the persecutions by the official apparatus of the Roman state and this concept of accommodation.

00:46:54.200 And this is why with Dr. Marshall last night and then today to talk about you cannot – this issue of accommodation is going to be a bigger and bigger issue as you go forward.

00:47:04.600 You have the white form of being a martyr, which is the harassment every day and the thwarting of you professionally and the deplatforming of you and making sure you don't have opportunities.

00:47:15.840 And then that can transfer over to, obviously, the much more dangerous, the red martyrdom. 0.91

00:47:21.620 And you're starting to see that.

00:47:22.700 I mean, the Covenant School situation, you can't look away from that.

00:47:26.560 In fact, you've got to get down and you've got to make sure you fully understand it and it's exposed for what it is.

00:47:32.280 So I really want to thank Sophia Institute for making available Dr. Tom Williams from Rome for the last couple of hours and always Dr. Taylor Marshall always makes himself available and has such a great and tremendous following.

00:47:46.420 For our audience, the next couple of weeks as people get back – not next week, but we'll be going through it in depth – but the following week, the intensity is going to pick up on the political and the cultural side.

00:47:59.160 But I think it's – this is the weekend to be with family.

00:48:02.960 This is the weekend to, you know, understand your faith, to spend time with your faith, to spend time with divine reading and things that draw you closer to your – to whatever angle of attack you take on your faith, whether you're evangelical Protestant, mainstream Protestant, of the Jewish faith or traditional Catholic.

00:48:25.280 So we really want to thank everybody for joining us here.

00:48:29.240 We're going to be back live on Monday with the firing off the football.

00:48:34.360 So much going on.

00:48:35.720 Over the weekend, I'll be updating everybody on Getter.

00:48:38.980 So make sure you go to Getter.

00:48:40.440 Download it.

00:48:41.760 Also, and if you can support our sponsor, the great Mike Lindell.

00:48:47.060 And Mike Lindell's Christianity is something to behold. 0.98

00:48:49.200 I've seen this guy put under incredible pressure, not just business pressure, political pressure, but also legal pressure, and the way he just comes through with that great smile and that great attitude.

00:49:01.140 So go to MyPillow.com, promo code WARROOM.

00:49:03.820 Go check it out over the weekend.

00:49:06.140 Have a fantastic weekend.

00:49:09.080 Have a great Easter.

00:49:10.500 We always do these shows that are kind of very – I don't want to say dark, but very – we try to get into the issues that maybe we don't get a chance to talk about in the spiritual warfare of every day in the war room.

00:49:25.140 So I want to thank everybody.

00:49:26.580 I want to thank the production team in Denver that always goes out of the way to work with us on these specials.

00:49:31.400 I want to thank my production team here in the nation's capital and wherever we roam for putting this together.

00:49:37.560 And maybe we can start the beautiful music.

00:49:40.080 It's not exactly traditional religious music, but I think it's some of the most powerful music out there.

00:49:45.460 It's Mozart's – aspects of Mozart's Requiem.

00:49:50.620 So we can go ahead and we'll end the show with that.

00:49:52.380 I'll be up on Getter all weekend.

00:49:54.240 Make sure you check it out.

00:49:55.260 If you're on Getter, can you DM me?

00:49:57.300 And if not, I will see you.

00:49:58.840 Have a great rest of Holy Saturday.

00:50:02.140 Also have a great Easter Sunday with the family.

00:50:04.500 And we'll see you back here in the war room live 10 a.m. Eastern Daylight Time here at Real America's Voice in the war room.

00:50:11.340 See you back here Monday.

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Bannon's War Room - April 08, 2023

Episode 2648： A WarRoom Easter Special Part 2

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