Episode 3198： A WarRoom Thanksgiving Day Special
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Summary
Jemestown and Jamestown were the first English settlements in the Americas, but what is the difference between the two? Is there any special exceptionalism in the circumstances of their arrival in America in the early 17th century?
Transcript
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okay welcome back it is uh thursday we've come our thanksgiving day special 23 november in the
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year of our lord of 2023 larry swyker the co-author of the patriots history of the united
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states he's at work now on many many more endeavors at the appropriate time we'll bring
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this forward the next couple weeks some very exciting things that larry's working on of course
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a great writer and great researcher so larry let's go back to the first thanksgiving correct me if i'm
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wrong here uh brother swyker the new york times tells me the nation was actually founded in 1619
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right and we're a racist nation we're we're irredeemable nation is is the new york times
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correct in that that the nation actually started in 1619 sir well even if you wanted to argue that
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jamestown was which it was was historically the first english settlement in america in 1607
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i wish they were the new york times wants to uh vamp on that and say that because they were the first
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that what happened in 1619 which was the arrival of of slaves from um the west indies that therefore
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the united states was founded in original sin and slavery and that there is no exceptionalism
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because it's all tainted by slavery and uh my argument is that no jamestown did not have
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two of the four pillars of american exceptionalism uh they weren't a mostly protestant colony they were
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an anglican colony uh and the anglicans were not truly protestants they weren't protesting against
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anything except henry the eighth's right to have a hottie uh he wanted to have anne boleyn instead of
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his wife catherine and he asked the pope for a divorce the pope says no i'm not going to give you
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one he said well i'll create my own church call it the church of england or the anglican church and give
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myself a divorce and the other thing that that colony did not have uh legalistically speaking was common
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law because it arrived with a preset governor chosen for them back in england uh by the colonial board but
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the board was heavily governed by the crown uh at plymouth they arrived without a preset governor and
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they elect their governor on board the mayflower before they leave the ship but but uh so that was
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but isn't the the colony in the common the colony in the plymouth it's a religious community of
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dissenters yes they had the mayflower compact had to work out how they govern themselves but they were
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not entrepreneurs they didn't really care about the commercial aspects of things they had been already
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kicked out of england and quite frankly kicked out of holland right these guys are so hardcore
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that that's so hardcore they're not really welcomed anywhere they're going to go to a vast wilderness
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probably to die of starvation in the first year the jamestown situation is quite different jamestown is
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essentially entrepreneurs and those entrepreneurs are not there they're not thinking we're going to be
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growing crops and they're essentially many of the uh because the the pilgrims are really descendants of
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the puritans or cromwell the the the virginia or the cavaliers they're looking for a quick buck
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they were there for the search for gold essentially or el dorado or the fountain of youth all these
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myths that it had and sometimes not myths because the spanish were an incredible empire off the silver
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from the mines of south america and the incas so they're two different i mean one comes as a religious
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colony right i think as a catholic we would have a tough time buying your buying your argument that the
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anglican church is not protestant but i'll let you go but the the commonwealth the plymouth plymouth is
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clearly a religious experience and for them everything commercial always had a taint on it right
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in fact they had to come up the mayfire compact because they got there and they said hey we have to
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have some rules here other than just religious rules some basically rules for men so we can govern
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ourselves the jamestown were freebooters that's the reason they almost starved right these guys had no
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intention particularly the second and third sons because if you were going to get the land in
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england you certainly weren't going to get on a small boat and go to like going off the uh most
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people thought the earth was flat you're still going to you know go off a flat earth you're you're in
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virginia for one reason there's got to be gold there's got to be some of that inca silver or maybe
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i find the fountain of youth i'm filthy rich and i go back to england and live like a lord larry
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swiker compare and contrast the two experiences well let's remember that the pilgrims came over
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with half their number were not pilgrims they were strangers they were part of that freebooter group
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now it's safe to say that most of them were not the best farmers but they did know how to farm
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they just didn't know all the ins and outs of new england american farming and that's where squanto
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came in and he helped them determine some uh better seeds to use they weren't using all the best seeds
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you're right the guys in virginia were these gold seekers but here's where i want to kind of diverge into
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uh something your viewers might find interesting which is the latest research um on the indians in
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in north america uh comes from a guy named peka hamilainen a uh finnish professor and he has a
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a fairly new book out called indigenous continent and it's been very well reviewed by liberals of course
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and and his take on things is kind of a repackaging of what was an establishment view generally called
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the middle ground which was that the indians saw whites not as a particular threat or a specific
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threat but rather just another tribe to be dealt with to make allies with to conquer if you could
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and so what we saw in new england was that uh some of the tribes there had been weakened by continual war
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including the patoxins and uh the wampanoogs uh remained and so these indians saw these whites as
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potential allies and it didn't hurt oh hold on hang over hang on one second hang on one second i want to
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make sure because i've always argued this for the audience the indians are not so they have a very
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sophisticated uh way of alliances i mean these are wars like you read uh thucydides the peloponnesian
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war the spartans and the athenians it's always certain coalitions coming together those coalitions
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last for a while sometimes members of the coalition are either bought off or so badly beaten they just
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kind of surrender the court the north american indians was the same way and particularly when
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the pilgrims arrived this was after years and years of warfare they and they had very sophisticated
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alliances and treaty systems that were in place and the indians were constantly at war with each other
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there were obviously some peaceful indians but you know it's a it's a it's a tough continent and you
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know it's survival of the fittest they're not sitting there thinking hey if you're nice if this is among
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the indigenous people themselves it was constant war constant conquest right and and when the whites
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showed up some of the tribes thought or hey these guys could be partners other some as as that but
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there was a sophisticated alliance system in an ongoing series of wars and conflicts that the whites
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showed up in the middle of it mike and by the way these whites the pilgrims are supposed to be the
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most peaceful people on earth one step maybe above or below the quakers but they're puritanes and
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pilgrims for a reason that they want to detach themselves to the fallen nature of the coarseness
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of men and particularly uh the coarseness of people in england yeah and that all everything you said
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there is true and in fact some of the sophistication involved the way they would negotiate which uh i think
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this new book accurately depicts is that the whites never really did understand the indian way of
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negotiation which was to to show all this honor and and fealty and we respect your heritage particularly
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in the form of wampum belts which uh weren't well understood by whites instead whites brought trinkets
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to we call them trinkets but they were very valuable to the indians uh metal metal knives uh metal pots and pans
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that they did not have um guns obviously but are are peaceful pilgrims after not too long um they in the
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massachusetts bay colony engage in uh the pequot war where they they basically have to try to wipe out the
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pequots because they deem them as as too violent and and uh too much of a a constant threat but let me
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get back to your virginia people you talked about these gold seekers um another thing this guy makes
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clear in his book and again i don't agree with everything he says but i think he has some interesting
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insights was that the indians understood that the the europeans were after gold and they used these
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stories into he claims they they were constantly telling him stories oh yeah there's gold just over
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that hill over there just just go over there go down that river about five miles and you'll find
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knowing that either a it would get them away from them or b they would probably die in the quest to go get
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this this gold so um uh these stories of gold were perpetuated by the indians as a uh self-survival
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technique um so walk us through squat what what is his role with the puritans and how the pilgrims
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excuse me how the pilgrims come up with this concept that they needed to give thanks for god what what
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dilemma had uh because people i think a lot of people don't fully understand when they got here
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it was a lot harsher than anybody expected in fact when i've read all the histories and stories of the
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of the pilgrims and the first settlers into jamestown but particularly up north where the
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environment was even harsher i can't imagine that anybody made it through it's just given the
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hostility of the land the host and you know this was terrific new england soil which is always rocky
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and stony it was you know you're not out in kansas you're not out in nebraska somewhere walk me through
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that how how do people even survive and what was squanter's role and then the giving thanks this whole
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concept of thanksgiving it's important for everybody to understand that both jamestown colonists
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and the plymouth colonists came over with a socialist economic structure at first they had common land
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called the commons they had common grain barrels you didn't have entrepreneurship you didn't have
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people uh with this is my property this is your property um and as a result they starved uh i did
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a four minute video on this for prager university called america's socialist origins it's had over a
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million views but basically they come over the first winter in in uh jamestown was bad the second one was
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called the starving time so you know anything that's characterized by historians as a starving time
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isn't going to be pleasant uh the diaries show that they were eating uh rats and dung and shoelaces
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and you know my wife and i love these cooking shows where they have a market basket of goods and they
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say now open your market basket of goods and oh we have a rat we have dung we have shoelaces
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and oh i know exactly what i'm going to do i'm going to make a nice rat puree with a little dung topping
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you know um so it was very bad they lost over half their number and there's this if you want to talk
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about the miracle at jamestown the miracle was after a while they said that's it we've had it we're
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getting on the boat going home and literally the whole colony was on a ship headed back to england up
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the james river and they meet at the mouth of the james river a resupply ship with about a hundred more
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colonists on it think of the incredible coincidence um or god's hand in things if you want to take the
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religious tone to have that other ship come all the way across the ocean and arrive just as these guys
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were leaving another two hours uh later for that ship to arrive and they would have found no colony
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and they themselves would have turned around and gone back home well the people in plymouth experience
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hang on hang on hang on i want hang on i want to take the we got about a minute and a half i want to
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hit the rewind of the story because i don't think people appreciate it they had voted they had moved
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all their stuff back onto the vessel and and this is after what a year and a half or two years there
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and we're leaving jamestown which had been a huge collapse of the entire experiment and they meet
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going back to the to the to uh to uh tidewater and to hampton roads they they meet the resupply ship
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coming i mean how incredible is that again two hours and you wouldn't have even been able to see that
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other ship so um a friend of mine a congressman chris stewart he just retired here in the last few
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months uh he wrote a really good book called seven miracles that made america and this is his the
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first of his miracles hang out for one second we're going to take a short commercial break
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larry swiker of the patriots history of the united states if you're you haven't gotten this and given
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it to a teenager or to a young adult or maybe even yourself you haven't experienced a complete
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understanding of american history the patriots history of the united states larry swiker
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welcome back thanksgiving day our special larry swiker joins us is the fact that there was a
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closer total collapse and let's be honest essentially a surrender by the virginia company
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because it was entrepreneurs getting on the boat and and and leaving and seeing the supply ship by a
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miracle of god uh and then turning around and re-establishment was that because this was
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principally and obviously there were many devout christians in the group but this was principally
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started as an entrepreneurial activity the virginia company uh with you know with stockholders and
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uh appointment of the crown and the crown was going to get there 20 off the top did that lead to the
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collapse uh you know before they really learned the virtues of of capitalism and individual effort
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uh that you did not see even given all the harshness in massachusetts you didn't see because that was a
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religious colony i think there's a lot to that you know in in um both colonies within two years
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um gave up on socialism they said that's it we're here's your land here's your land here's your grain
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here's your grain you're on your own uh john smith said he who will not work will not eat
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so that also introduced a a more uh acute level of immediacy that it's on you now you can't rely
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on somebody else to get your food but you had uh averred to the fact that um so many of those people
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in jamestown were gold seekers and gold hunters and john smith said would that i had a dozen
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carpenters or bricklayers or people who knew how to work with their hands as opposed to a thousand of
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these people these people are useless because they're out looking for gold and they're not
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doing anything to keep the colony alive so you do have that concept in new england that that this is
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something set by god and we're going to stay at it until we succeed but i think it was important for
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your your viewers to understand that both colonies start off with this socialist mindset both abandon it
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and in uh plymouth what kind of accelerates this abandonment is the introduction of this indian named
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squanto uh who's really uh and almost as miraculous as the one ship meeting the other at the mouth of
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the james river is finding squanto because he helps the uh plymouth colony with finding new types of seeds
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uh introduces them to maize among other things and this guy is uh he mediates a defense treaty uh
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with the wampanoags uh who at that time and we had talked about all these uh intricacies of the
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defense treaties of the indians the wampanoags had been uh beset with disease and they desperately
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needed allies and here are these white guys well we'll make them our allies um so squanto was an
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indian who was kidnapped earlier around 1614 by a guy named thomas hunt hunt takes squanto to spain
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as a slave and is planning on selling him and apparently a group of monks for whatever reason
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by him teach him english and spanish give him his freedom from that point we don't know exactly how but he
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ends up in england and while in england he apparently meets pocahontas i mean these things are just mind
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boggling the coincidences here uh if you ascribe them to coincidence so he ends up on a ship back to
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north america in 1619 where he wants to reunite with his patuxent tribesmen only to find the patuxents
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are gone uh they've been wiped out and so he settles with the wampanoags who want to have a treaty with
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these english and he's the one who ends up negotiating these various uh treaties so
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hang over a second hold on slow slow down for a second because i think most people if they know
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the story at all they think squanto kind of walks out of the forest one day and sees these hapless
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whites and and and says oh well you know some and well i somehow got to show them better seeds
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the the story is there had already been whites there as traders right the the pilgrims were not
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the first obviously leaf ericsson the vikings but other individual traders just like in jamestown
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they had had what the rono colony and and people had tried to get there before they hadn't survived
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squanto has already gone to europe he's he actually speaks english in fact he doesn't he speaks okay
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english right i mean enough to communicate with with the pilgrims think about it you're a pilgrim
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you get off the boat down there in the hook where the sand is you finally make it up to plymouth where
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they're kind of thing and you're not really making it and one of the reasons you're not making it they're
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not the greatest farmers i realize it's socialists or anything like that but these guys are not
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exactly you know the mccormick reaper guys right they're barely hanging on quite frankly because they
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have been from england and holland these are religious people they're not they're not entrepreneurs
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and they're not farmers and and they're making a go of it and a guy walks out of the woods
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in the middle of nowhere and this is the middle of nowhere and he speaks english and can actually
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communicate with you somehow some rudimentary thing and he's he's he actually understands farming
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on this rocky you know unforgiving plane if that's not divine problem if that's not an interventionist
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god i don't know we got two you got one is the guys are leaving they've surrendered they've been
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eating rats and shoelaces i'm out of here i didn't see gold i didn't see us found a youth i don't see
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any inca silver i'm done and the way out they got the supply ship coming out which probably means
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also hey you've seen the supply ship you guys go back you'll be in prison for losing our money you'll
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be in debtors prison for losing our money at the north they got a guy that walks out of the woods
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that actually speaks i mean it's so it's such an incredible story a guy walks out of the woods and
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he actually speaks english and he he understands farming and oh by the way he can help you form an
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alliance with exactly the group of indians or native americans that need you as an ally they
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don't care if you're white or not you look like you guys can fight and you got a couple of muskets
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i've got some enemies here that are trying to take my territory let's roll on them
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that is that is that is that shows you that lincoln was lincoln was right that there is an
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interventionist god well and think of it from the wampanoag's point of view they're almost wiped out
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they've got this guy who speaks the language of these these white people but we haven't seen very
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many of them hey wait a whole bunch of these white people just showed up they've got some guns maybe
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there's hope for us after all maybe we can get a treaty with these guys and so after a planting season
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and a harvest season these uh pilgrims have an abundance for the first time it's not huge abundance
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they've got more than more than enough and so they throw a thanksgiving feast to give thanks to god
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and they invite 90 of these wampanoag uh men to come and and join them in in this feast to to give
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thanks it's just uh it's so unbelievable at every level that that you can only unless you're one of
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the those nuns that we talked about you can only think this was god's plan all along well if you
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talk to me about because we used to always have this fight when i was a child oh jamestown had the
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first thanksgiving not massachusetts when did j if the pilgrims were in the first couple of years
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after they almost starved to death did jamestown ever actually officially have something where they
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actually sat down at the table indians are not indigenous people are not but gave thanks to god for
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making it the way we differentiate this is that at plymouth you had the first governor issuing a
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thanksgiving proclamation there were many thanksgiving ceremonies before plymouth but it was at plymouth
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that you get an an official stamp of approval on the thanksgiving proclamation is that sort of the way to
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to understand that also i might add uh before we go to break here is that uh the pilgrims obviously
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were a very devout uh religious community in fact uh the the they were so devout they were kicked out
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of a couple of countries for being obnoxiously devout it didn't stop them from being able to defend
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themselves i think squanto picked that up right away when he's able to pitch it to his
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indigenous tribe brothers that hey it was praise god and pass the ammunition these whites when
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their backs are to the wall they can fight and we need some fighters on our side we need to partner
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with some of these fighters so um talk to me about it and going forward after that first walk me through
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the plymouth colony how did it actually survive the first couple years obviously socialism they shifted
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it they had the abundance they had the thanksgiving did god's abundance continue to to to prosper with
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him what what happened to the pilgrims well the pilgrims in 1630 uh had the first uh greenery grain
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mill um introducing really capitalism and division of labor into the colonies at a very early date
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um they they they were successful in terms they survived it was really though the massachusetts bay
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puritans that came over with john winthrop that that really took root and and grew they were much more of
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the um traditional calvinists that believed that god blessed you through prosperity and prosperity was a sign
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that god was blessing you hence a sign that you were saved and so everybody tried to be prosperous they
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they this is where you get the notion of the protestant work ethic one of the reasons for that work was you
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wanted to show that god was blessing you hence uh you were saved and it's interesting that uh this new work
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on the indians um argues that it was really the massachusetts bay people who kind of cause all the trouble
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because they expand their numbers keep growing and that was the point that the indians first see
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whites as someone other than just another tribe they first say no these guys could be dangerous
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because they keep getting resupplied and they keep getting more colonists
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yeah uh larry hang on for one second this is all fascinating we're going to continue on talking about the uh
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the tradition of thanksgiving and it's interesting our default position is always to thank god to to
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make sure that we give praise and thanks to god uh in times of national tribulation but also thanks
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uh for god's abundance and everything he's given this the greatest most powerful nation uh on earth
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that's created more wealth shared it with more people freed more people than any nation on earth
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with all her flaws here on a thanksgiving day in 2023 return with the co-author of the
00:28:07.500
the patriots history of the united states larry swiker in a moment this year when i count my blessings
00:28:22.860
okay environ cleanse never does this they just announced a massive black friday discount
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hey welcome back on thanksgiving that thanksgiving day special i want to thank uh real america's voice
00:30:22.300
robin parker sig the entire team in denver for always helping us put together these specials
00:30:26.620
um our black friday special will be tomorrow we always do the day after uh thanksgiving of course
00:30:33.260
this weekend uh will be up also so a lot of stuff going on over the next couple of days make sure you're
00:30:38.700
uh always checking in with war room to get all your latest news and uh information uh larry swikert
00:30:47.020
there's a book out kevin philips i don't know if you're familiar with it's fairly obscure but i think
00:30:51.500
a very powerful book he makes the argument you can look at american history he calls it the cousins war
00:30:56.940
and he goes back to england in the time of their civil war cromwell's new model army and the
00:31:01.900
puritans and that kind of religious split from the from the church of england or the the anglican
00:31:07.660
church at the time which was really as you say the catholic church with the archbishop of canterbury
00:31:12.460
kind of a nationalist church from the globalist catholic church uh and he says if you look at the
00:31:19.180
puritans and their belief and they came to the commonwealth of massachusetts you look at the
00:31:23.100
the freebooters down in jamestown that's the two uh aspects that that really drive
00:31:29.580
uh the founding of america and the growth of america is this this deep religious conviction
00:31:33.980
among some people in this kind of entrepreneurial spirit freebooter uh with the other and he goes
00:31:40.060
through and makes the talks about the different parts of england i think is west anglica or some
00:31:44.700
different sections of england where cromwell's puritans came from versus the cavaliers
00:31:50.620
of uh uh i think prince uh king king uh king charles um the um
00:31:57.180
um he then says you could see that through the civil war that the puritans in the in the new
00:32:03.500
englanders first off in the revolution and then later in the in the civil war where the abolitionists
00:32:10.220
and kind of these uh radicals at least at the time that had this concept of man that included um
00:32:17.820
african americans and something totally different the entrepreneurs that looked at everything as
00:32:22.300
through the lens of money and you can see the civil war all the way up to the the current time that he
00:32:27.020
died of a few years ago but it's a very powerful book and looking at these the basic strains of
00:32:32.780
thought in america one you have deep very deep religious conviction and that this is the new jerusalem
00:32:38.620
and that this land is a is is a pure land and has to be built upon these tenets of not simply
00:32:46.060
christianity but a a very uh stoic austere version of christianity in which you're giving thanks every
00:32:53.580
day by not succumbing to the to the um to the to the ways of the flesh and the other is essentially the
00:33:01.500
freebooters which is you know i'm not saying eat drink and be merry but hey everything is about
00:33:06.300
material gain everything i'm always looking for the uh for uh the silver of the incas uh the gold of
00:33:13.340
el dorado or the fountain of youth uh and that those two strains make up this the continual power
00:33:19.660
of america but also the tensions inside the civilization that is now america your thoughts
00:33:25.900
well it's interesting that you bring up cromwell because i credit cromwell with the origins of
00:33:31.980
religious toleration which is going to sound crazy to people who know that cromwell stop i can't now
00:33:38.380
you've already got me to hang on hang you've already got me one that anglicans are not protestants
00:33:43.020
i know our episcopate brothers embrace that as an irishman i don't bring up my irish charity as
00:33:48.460
much as to tell us i'm just from a family extended family a dumb mix of which i'm the dumbest the
00:33:53.420
but when you tell an irish catholic that cromwell is the model of religious tolerance you're gonna
00:34:00.540
have to you're gonna have to give me some footnotes uh the irish would want to check the receipts on that
00:34:05.020
one okay i don't say he's the model what i do is i say he sets in motion religious toleration i don't
00:34:11.820
think he wants to do this but he has to he creates this new model army and of course they are all
00:34:18.860
uh calvinist protestants and one of the tenets of calvinist christianity was every man should read
00:34:25.980
the bible for himself so probably everybody in the field doesn't have their own bible but you can
00:34:31.980
guarantee that every company at night has their own bible and you know they don't have iphones or
00:34:37.420
nintendo or anything so what are they going to do they're going to read the bible every night and
00:34:42.620
before too long company a is coming to different biblical interpretations than company b and company
00:34:51.340
c well you can't go kill company b because they have a different view of the sermon on the mount
00:34:58.300
than you do you need them in the morning to go kill anglicans so gradually you start to get this
00:35:05.980
early version of religious toleration where you're wrong you're probably damned doomed and going to
00:35:12.700
hell but we need to work together because we have a bigger fish to fry here and it takes a long time
00:35:19.820
for this to come through certainly in america it doesn't come through till uh in the 20th century and
00:35:26.300
we were out celebrating that john kennedy is the first catholic elected to the presidency as kind of a
00:35:32.700
benchmark that well some form of a religious intolerance is gone but you can trace all that
00:35:38.940
back to the fact that these uh cromwellian new model army companies had to overlook differences of
00:35:46.780
theology in order to kill people with other differences in theology now this is very powerful
00:35:54.940
one i wanted to um i wanted to um get into the new model army for a second i think it's a uh a lot
00:36:03.580
of people don't know about it describe cromwell's new model army because i'll be blunt in thinking
00:36:08.860
through the war room posse and and and these people that are now engaged i often am drawn back to the
00:36:15.180
new model army the new model army was a revolutionary vanguard force made up of just regular schmoes who had
00:36:23.580
and many of those cromwell i think was in his 50s cromwell was so out of it he was about to get on
00:36:28.220
the boat to the united states when all of a sudden he got swept up in the english civil war and the
00:36:34.300
english civil war is is i think under not understood nearly as well as the american civil war in fact
00:36:41.340
quite frankly in england i think they was there for the 500th anniversary of cromwell's birth and there
00:36:46.300
was like no celebrations they don't really want to talk about it in england because it ended in regicide
00:36:52.940
it's just something they just don't discuss i mean some scholars do etc but it's not
00:36:57.740
like the american civil war we have so many civilians and so many people throughout the
00:37:01.820
country go to get his birth go to antietam go to the different battlefields and and and kids and get
00:37:07.580
interested in it there's tv shows there's there's very little ever said about the english civil war
00:37:12.380
cromwell is a fascinating figure and particularly the new model army i often think that the war room posse
00:37:17.420
is a almost a version a latter-day version of the new model army new model army was so inspired by
00:37:24.380
the word of god that it took average quite frankly grundunes and turned them into one of the most
00:37:31.580
powerful forces ever created in history sir well it's this idea of a mega of a grassroots that doesn't
00:37:41.740
have an affinity to either political party uh english civil war was very much a civil war not only of
00:37:49.340
two opposing ideologies two opposing religions but of of a class structure of of your as you say your
00:37:58.380
ordinary schmoes out there who are infused by the word of god uh like i say they read the bible every
00:38:05.180
night uh they believe it and and they believe that their opponents at that time were in fact evil and
00:38:11.580
need to be defeated now it's interesting we we end up here on thanksgiving with this discussion but
00:38:18.140
i hear many people within our movement who say well we need a new cromwell we need a reset which is what
00:38:27.420
he was he didn't end the monarchy what cromwell did was provided a brief window however brutal and however
00:38:36.460
much people wanted to forget it but he gave them an opportunity for uh the parliament to say we need
00:38:44.060
to reset this with a monarchy that comes uh really from the people not just from blood and so that key
00:38:52.380
event of course is in the glorious revolution when go ahead go ahead no no you go ahead go ahead well in the
00:39:00.940
glorious revolution where all time throughout all time previously uh the religious head whether it
00:39:08.540
was a bishop or the pope or archbishop had put the crown on the heads of the the monarch and now all
00:39:15.180
of a sudden who puts the crown on the heads of the monarch it's the head of parliament a representative
00:39:20.220
of the people so um it's very interesting to hear our modern people say well we need a new cromwell
00:39:27.740
type figure a dictator who can come in and give us a reset which i certainly don't support but i
00:39:32.860
understand their feeling is that not also the underlying tensions the english civil war and
00:39:40.300
and particularly the two strains here and you see in the two thanksgivings at the beginning uh the the
00:39:46.620
in massachusetts with the pilgrims and the in the freebooter entrepreneurs cavaliers in jamestown
00:39:52.380
um that um tension also in not just in class structure but between spiritual warfare and the
00:39:59.580
in the money or entrepreneur class in england they were outraged the the people in the city of london
00:40:06.700
which is the wall street area but even the the the people around the crown remember had the the
00:40:11.660
east india company you had the these coming the virginia company the bay company these are all
00:40:16.060
um you know for-profit organizations although obviously the massachusetts colony had um had a deep
00:40:23.420
religious with the puritans coming over but it's always this tension between kind of a lower class
00:40:31.340
maga deeply imbued with a the word of god and the belief in jesus christ and and the unfolding of
00:40:39.980
our history as a story in the new jerusalem versus entrepreneurs there's nothing anything's wrong with
00:40:45.420
entrepreneurs but entrepreneurs at least in in this construct are just more worried about the material
00:40:51.020
world and and the benefits of that have you do you see that strain throughout our history and phillips
00:40:56.780
went on to write the new american majority which kind of fleshed that out a lot and and you see that
00:41:02.060
very much uh even especially within the republican party where you have one side that doesn't want
00:41:07.980
to talk about abortion they don't want to talk about any of the so-called social issues uh let's just
00:41:13.260
talk about tax cuts and making money which was of course the whole george hw bush george w bush
00:41:20.380
mit romney kind of approach let's stay away from the hot button issues and um the kind of religious
00:41:27.820
conservatives that say no life is about more than just making money yeah we want to make money but
00:41:33.260
there's some very serious issues here that that need to be dealt with and we're still fighting that
00:41:39.660
out and you saw uh ohio issue one which was a a big um struggle over which of these two republican
00:41:48.300
concepts is going to uh be the one to kind of lead the country in the future uh larry uh your recommendations
00:41:57.660
for people that want to find out more about this we we every time we do these specials whether it's
00:42:04.300
you or patrick k o'donnell one of the things the live chat's always saying is how do i want to learn
00:42:09.980
more this is interesting i didn't know this or i knew part of it but i didn't know the whole story
00:42:14.620
is the best place still for people to go to go to your and and what is this though the you're in the
00:42:19.980
40 uh the 40th printing i think i've got one of the anniversary editions uh how how many editions have
00:42:26.620
been printed and and where do you stand now with the book okay the patriots history is now in its 15th
00:42:33.340
anniversary edition i have just completed and will have out sometime next year free on the web uh the
00:42:41.580
20th anniversary edition which is really some um revisions throughout the book not not tons but a lot of added
00:42:49.180
material and an updated 2018 to 2023 chapter which itself is that five years covers as much as the
00:42:57.740
whole first chapter that covers like 100 years but i thought people would be interested in that we're in
00:43:03.340
our 41st printing and i have a full curriculum if you go to the wild world of history uh we have a full
00:43:10.540
curriculum that goes with this uh 22 chapters 22 videos i teach every chapter in video we also have a full
00:43:19.020
world history class and we've got some great black friday offers of book deals we've got dragon
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slayers and patriots history in one of them i just finished my autobiography called um the rhythm of
00:43:32.620
history and going back to my rock and roll days i don't know too many people who opened for steppenwolf
00:43:38.780
and who met with presidents and who directed films and uh did all this other stuff so they might find the
00:43:45.500
rhythm of history of interest so we've got several black friday offers that are just fantastic okay
00:43:51.980
we're gonna come back and we'll send it right there that's why larry swigert has such a well-lived in
00:43:56.220
body he's done much in his life some of it pretty crazy okay he's not always been a scholar short break
00:44:03.900
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we've come to the time and the season welcome back larry uh before i let you go you said something
00:45:24.940
there i know audiences want to go to follow up on and that is you said you did an edition of from
00:45:31.020
2016 to the day 223 and it's like the first hundred years in the first book lennon i think it's lennon
00:45:38.300
that has that saying there are decades in which nothing happens and then there are weeks in which
00:45:42.300
decades happen are we living in that time right now sir very much so i mean i think uh socially you
00:45:48.940
you look at gene twinge t-w-e-n-g-e her work on generations the generations are changing not just
00:45:57.420
the millennials but gen x gen z are are dramatically changing in their uh religiosity or lack thereof
00:46:05.820
their uh approach to social problems and and we're seeing all of society change and not just politically but
00:46:13.820
uh we're on a cusp of we could very clearly lose a functioning democracy because we've seen these
00:46:22.140
courts uh and the department of injustice as i call it going after ordinary americans like like they
00:46:28.220
haven't had done except in wartime before um and really for the last five years the supreme court and
00:46:36.060
some of the courts have been the only bulwark we've had against these uh outrageous infringements on on
00:46:43.500
liberties and uh the attempt to kind of socialize our entire economy um so with the influx of
00:46:50.940
immigrants and to just recordly almost obscene levels um you're seeing the cities break down
00:46:57.740
in kind of a reverse cloward pivot where the cities are the the blue cities the democrat cities are
00:47:03.900
starting to fall apart and they're trying to call upon red or interior america to save them so we are
00:47:11.020
definitely in in one of those decades with a minute or two given i've known you for a long time
00:47:20.060
you are by nature an optimist as you look at the facts and the evidence as a historian and you project
00:47:25.980
forward where the evidence you think will take us are you optimistic about this remaining the new jerusalem
00:47:33.660
um to be seen to be remained that's something you can't handle through politics like
00:47:40.460
governor de santis has been trying to uh handle some of the wokeism in florida uh through politics good
00:47:47.500
i support that but that's not going to fix it it's got to come from people standing up parents
00:47:52.860
standing up saying we're not going to tolerate this in in our schools we're not going to tolerate our
00:47:58.380
communities um and so uh we're very much a tipping point uh i think politically i'm very optimistic i i think
00:48:08.620
that we'll have a much better government at the end of uh 2024 than we have now but uh socially
00:48:15.980
religiously it remains to be seen uh larry swyka thank you so much for doing this i think for the
00:48:22.860
third year our thanksgiving day special always appreciating your amazing insights into american history
00:48:28.380
thank you very much sir appreciate it thanks steve um we'll be back we're gonna do a reprise of this
00:48:38.140
later this afternoon as we always do we'll be back tomorrow at 10 a.m eastern standard time
00:48:45.260
for our black friday the special we always do on black friday and of course on saturday with another
00:48:50.620
special over this very very uh special uh weekend i want to thank everybody and particularly our
00:48:55.820
sponsors the reason we're able to be ubiquitous and free whether it's on the podcast or with the
00:49:02.060
emails all that's free the podcast is free you download it give us review the email sign up for
00:49:06.860
the email go to worm.org go to our website you get all the exclusive content particularly if you
00:49:12.860
listen to the show and our ever-expanding vast radio audience you're going to want to see the videos
00:49:18.220
you're going to want to see the cold opens you're going to want to see everything up there the tv
00:49:21.420
audiences that's all free plus more insights on the um by using the email um we got bill blaster which
00:49:30.060
is the totally free app that gives you operating leverage when you're dealing with all these massive
00:49:35.100
fights that we have uh currently uh with trying to bring some sanity into the spending of the federal
00:49:41.980
government today is a day of uh of thanks and we want to thank our our uh sponsors to make
00:49:47.740
this all possible from birch gold uh to my pillow go to my pillow.com over the uh we'll have more
00:49:53.100
to say about this tomorrow my pillow.com make sure you go check it out over the holiday weekend and also
00:49:58.620
obviously we give thanks to god that we are um so blessed to be citizens of this country but also
00:50:05.660
blessed to be in this time in history you are um very much like the new model army imbued by the power
00:50:12.860
of the living christ to defend this republic and uh it's been quite successful so far
00:50:18.540
as importantly you've put the fear of that god into your enemies and remember on this thanksgiving also
00:50:24.460
say a prayer of uh to make sure that god remembers our enemies as legion as they are okay uh i've also said
00:50:34.060
in thanksgiving don't back off today at the at the festivities when some of your cousins or nephews or some
00:50:41.660
of your close ones that have traditionally given you stink eye about being maga stink eye about being
00:50:47.020
ultra maga stink eye about president trump you want to have a peaceful celebration a peaceful
00:50:52.860
commemoration but get up in their grill you're on the site of uh righteousness you're on the site of uh
00:51:02.300
i don't want to say an avenging god let's leave that let's leave the puritan pitch for another time
00:51:07.660
i can't believe larry swiker trying to sell an irishman on cromwell and religious tolerance
00:51:14.220
i'm gonna have to rethink that one through anyway honored to be on here have a great rest of
00:51:18.060
thanksgiving day we'll see you back here tomorrow at 10 a.m eastern state of time
00:51:21.020
the moon rise over a prairie and oh love that you've made new
00:51:35.420
and this year when i count my blessings i'm thanking the lord he made you
00:51:44.620
and this year when i count my blessings i'm thanking the lord he made you
00:52:00.540
and when the time comes to be going it won't be in sorrow and tears
00:52:07.980
tears i'll kiss you goodbye and i'll go on my way grateful for all of the years
00:52:19.420
i think for all that you gave me for teaching me what love can do
00:52:27.100
and thanksgiving day for the rest of my life i'm thanking the lord he made you
00:52:38.700
thanksgiving day for the rest of my life i'm thanking the lord he made you
00:53:08.380
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