Bannon's War Room - December 26, 2023


Episode 3271： The Combat History Of Christmas


Episode Stats


Length

53 minutes

Words per minute

151.56277

Word count

8,132

Sentence count

403

Harmful content

Misogyny

1

sentences flagged

Hate speech

12

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Patrick K. ODonnell joins Steve and Alex to discuss the impact of the Christmas season on the fighting during the Civil War, including the Christmas Eve raid at Trenton and the Christmas Day assault in Trenton, New Jersey.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 O come, O come, Emmanuel, and handsome captive Israel, 0.97
00:00:17.000 The earth that mourns in all the exile here,
00:00:25.000 Until the Son of God appears.
00:00:31.000 Rejoice! Rejoice!
00:00:36.000 Rejoice! Rejoice!
00:00:53.000 O come, O day-sprey come,
00:00:57.000 And cheer us here,
00:01:00.000 By my advent here,
00:01:05.000 Dispurch the gloomy clouds of night,
00:01:10.000 And dance like shadows who want to fight.
00:01:16.000 Rejoice! Rejoice!
00:01:21.000 Rejoice!
00:01:23.000 Rejoice!
00:01:24.000 Rejoice!
00:01:26.000 Rejoice!
00:01:27.000 Rejoice!
00:01:29.000 Prejoice!
00:01:30.000 Rejoice!
00:01:31.000 Rejoice!
00:01:32.000 Rejoice!
00:01:33.000 Rejoice!
00:01:34.000 Rejoice!
00:01:35.000 Rejoice!
00:01:36.000 Rejoice!
00:01:38.000 Rejoice!
00:01:39.000 Rejoice!
00:01:41.000 Rejoice!
00:01:42.000 Rejoice!
00:01:43.000 In приговор!
00:01:44.000 Rejoice!
00:01:47.000 Rejoice!
00:01:48.000 Rejoice! Rejoice!
00:02:13.000 Rejoice!
00:02:23.000 Welcome. It's Monday, 25 December in the year of our Lord, 2023. It is Christmas Day and we are honored to do a tradition.
00:02:32.420 We started back at Breitbart Radio, I don't know, a decade ago. We've had our colleague and friend, I believe the best combat historian of his generation, Patrick K. O'Donnell.
00:02:45.440 Join us every year for the combat history of Christmas. What we try to do is make sure everybody's aware that in this holiest of seasons for the Christian faith,
00:02:56.620 in one of the most joyous seasons, obviously for everyone in the Judeo-Christian West with Hanukkah and then the celebratory joys of Santa Claus and all of that for the little kids,
00:03:09.220 is that there have been many times in American history, in fact, pivot points in American history have come during this Christmas season in brutal winter conditions oftentimes.
00:03:20.500 Patrick K. O'Donnell joins us. Patrick, why is it? Is it because people have gone on the offensive?
00:03:27.260 What is it about, you know, when we talk about, as we'll get to the Christmas night in Trenton to really turn the American Revolution or we talk about the Battle of the Bulge or the Chosin Reservoir or all other of these?
00:03:44.240 And this new episode we're going to talk about coming from your book, The Unvanquished. The book will be out over Memorial Day this year.
00:03:51.540 What is it about the Christmas season, I guess, and winter in many aspects that caused major combat to happen?
00:04:00.540 The United States is nearing 250 years, Steve. And Christmas, in many cases, when America is at war, has been a great inflection point.
00:04:11.360 Either America has gone on the attack, that being the Revolutionary War, or our enemies have attacked us.
00:04:18.480 And as you mentioned, weather often plays a huge factor in this. Weather covers or screens offensive moves.
00:04:28.180 And this is often when the enemy or the United States is struck during, you know, during our conflicts over the last 250 years.
00:04:37.420 And these times have been, I mean, we're talking about some of the most brutal battles in American history.
00:04:47.800 Battle of the Bulge, caught unawares, Chosin Reservoir, right?
00:04:51.480 A lot of reasons for that. But we're talking about the level of intensity of combat has been pretty amazing, has it not?
00:04:59.660 It's been incredible. In all the conflicts that America has been involved in, the level of intensity in combat has been exceptional.
00:05:12.300 And that is certainly the case with the Civil War, which I think is some of the most brutal combat that we faced.
00:05:19.940 And, you know, if we go back, for instance, to the winter slash autumn of 1863, it's here that the Confederates earlier win a great battle at Chickamauga down in Tennessee on the Georgia border.
00:05:35.880 And they surround the vital town of Chattanooga with their forces.
00:05:41.300 But Missionary Ridge takes place and they break that siege and a new siege takes place at Knoxville.
00:05:48.420 And it's here that a raid has to be taken, has to take pressure off of that siege.
00:05:54.660 And that is, it's part of the one episode, a Christmas kind of raid, if you will, that involves the recent, the forthcoming book that I've written, The Unvanquished.
00:06:05.880 Which is on Lincoln Special Forces, otherwise known as Jesse Scouts.
00:06:12.440 And these were just exceptional men that were, in many cases, only 18 or 19 years old.
00:06:17.700 Young boys that had to volunteer for hazardous duty.
00:06:21.180 And they had no idea, in many cases, what that was.
00:06:23.720 But after they volunteered, they raised their hand, they volunteered, they were given a Confederate uniform as Union soldiers.
00:06:30.080 And then had to do some of the most hazardous duty of the entire Civil War.
00:06:34.220 And most of these men never came home.
00:06:38.060 They would receive seven medals of honor.
00:06:39.960 This is an untold story.
00:06:41.820 And they would lead the armies in war.
00:06:45.120 But also, they would fight the South's most dangerous men.
00:06:48.580 And this included John Singleton Mosby and many other incredible partisan rangers, as well as Confederate Secret Service.
00:06:56.620 But on this raid here, to relieve the pressure on Knoxville.
00:07:01.340 Well, hey, before we get to the raid, I want to give the dude, I've got honored to get an early copy.
00:07:09.340 In fact, it's the proof copy.
00:07:11.840 You guys haven't gone, I guess, final print.
00:07:14.900 This will be out.
00:07:15.680 I want to make sure The Unvanquished.
00:07:17.300 Let me get a full thing here.
00:07:18.860 So honored to show this the first time.
00:07:20.320 It will be out right before Memorial Day.
00:07:24.720 It'll be out on May 7th, Steve.
00:07:26.460 And thank you so much for – you were the first person to break the news on this book about a year ago.
00:07:33.120 You mentioned it very briefly.
00:07:35.140 But it's a very special book.
00:07:36.700 I've been working on this book for six years.
00:07:38.500 And it is a true untold story that America in 1941 had no special operations forces, and it would be Wild Bill Donovan that would look back on these men, as well as the Confederate forces under John Singleton Mosby and the Confederate Secret Service, to forge our special forces, which would become the U.S. Army Green Berets and others.
00:08:05.540 And it would change the course of history.
00:08:07.260 And, I mean, why is it relevant?
00:08:09.220 I mean, special operations, covert operations are what we see today in this world.
00:08:14.620 And it begins in earnest with our first modern war, which is the Civil War.
00:08:20.400 And it's these men that have –
00:08:22.160 You know, Bolton just used this the other day in this talk about insurrection.
00:08:27.400 He made the case that, you know, a lot of this thing that's happening in Colorado and the discussion around insurrection, that the lawmakers – you know, the secession move in the insurrection, there were 620,000, what, casualties, and not even counting civilian casualties.
00:08:44.860 This was a brutal war.
00:08:46.000 A lot of the untold stories –
00:08:47.240 It was actually even higher, about 100,000 more than that.
00:08:49.860 Yes, you're right.
00:08:50.720 It was absolutely –
00:08:51.460 There's 100 – it's actually higher, 700,000.
00:08:54.940 Well, that's what I want to ask you.
00:08:56.000 You haven't done a big book on the Civil War yet.
00:08:58.860 Is this your first big Civil War book?
00:09:00.980 You've covered so many of the other conflicts.
00:09:02.540 And how did you get the idea?
00:09:05.340 Well, I'll be through your research because this is why people are so fascinated.
00:09:08.560 When they read your books, they're so heavily researched, first-person accounts that come out of diaries and journals.
00:09:14.960 Your books are popular because they read like novels, right, with these characters that, quite frankly, nobody's ever heard of until you write them up.
00:09:22.760 So walk us through your process.
00:09:25.660 Process is – I've been interested in the Civil War since I was about three or four or five years old.
00:09:31.560 It's been a minor obsession.
00:09:34.680 It's been one of the wars that I've focused on.
00:09:38.480 But I was driving around northern Virginia, and I ran across the roadside sign.
00:09:48.120 And that road – there are two roadside signs.
00:09:50.080 One was the final hanging place of one of these scouts.
00:09:55.840 His name is Jack Sterry, and it's in the Plains, Virginia.
00:09:58.480 And it's 1862, and Jack is in a Confederate uniform, and he is trying to guide General Hood's forces down the wrong road at the Second Battle of Manassas, which would have changed the course of history.
00:10:13.680 And he is out guiding them and trying to convince them to go down this road.
00:10:19.140 And they spent about an hour trying to interrogate this guy, trying to figure out who he was when he's, in fact, one of Lincoln's special forces.
00:10:27.040 And he's trying to guide them down the wrong road.
00:10:29.180 And they basically unmasked this individual, and they hang him near the spot of this sign.
00:10:38.000 And in the 1960s, when they were widening the road, they found Jack's body as well as the Confederate that he had killed, who was a dispatch rider.
00:10:48.800 Just an incredible story.
00:10:50.220 And it was there that I found I wanted to know more.
00:10:53.900 Who were these men?
00:10:54.840 And then it turns out that it had never been written up as a full book.
00:10:59.660 And they had led the Union Army to victory in multiple battles.
00:11:05.500 But within that story is the men that they had to fight against, which were some of the most incredible, dangerous men of the South that were just, in many cases, just formidable.
00:11:20.380 Greatest partisan forces in the war were John Singleton Mosby, who begins with only a handful of men and then grows this partisan force to over a thousand.
00:11:30.880 They ambush wagon trains.
00:11:32.360 They derail steam locomotives.
00:11:37.360 And they harass the Union relentlessly.
00:11:40.680 And pretty much anything that goes into Mosby's Confederacy, which is this area in Northern Virginia, which is in and around Middleburg, Warrington, and Loudoun County, it remains untouched.
00:11:53.540 And they tie down tens of thousands of forces.
00:11:55.460 But within this story is also the story of influence operations that the Confederacy had launched to change the course of the election.
00:12:07.080 And it's a lot of stuff that we see today.
00:12:09.400 It's not just about supply and wagon trains, but it's also about influencing people and influence operations.
00:12:15.540 And even the first ballots, for instance, mail-in ballots become part of the Civil War.
00:12:24.160 And there's an entire fraud case, which involved tens of thousands of ballots for the Democratic candidate at that time, which I bring out in this book.
00:12:35.140 So it's an epic story of seven medals of honor, men that basically do everything to win the war.
00:12:47.100 Okay, amazing.
00:12:47.820 The new book, The Unvanquished, it'll come out in May.
00:12:50.320 You always do the Memorial Day special with us.
00:12:53.160 The audience loves it.
00:12:54.080 Patrick K. O'Donnell.
00:12:54.920 So we're going to come back.
00:12:56.400 We're going to get into this Christmas raid by – was it – the official title is Jesse Scouts?
00:13:02.700 Is that what they're called?
00:13:04.360 They were called Jesse Scouts, and then they changed the name over time based on the commander.
00:13:10.640 It would be Avril Scouts or it would be Sheridan Scouts.
00:13:13.020 But they were – the heart of these men begin as Jesse Scouts, and they were named after John Fremont's wife, Jesse Fremont, in her honor.
00:13:26.380 And as one quote said, he was a better man than even her husband.
00:13:32.160 She's quite a remarkable woman.
00:13:32.860 She was Jesse – she's one of the most remarkable women.
00:13:37.300 She and Custer's wife were the two firebrands.
00:13:42.120 Amazing – hang on, man.
00:13:45.960 This country is – you've got some guys.
00:13:50.460 Yeah, he was first Republican.
00:13:52.120 He was 1856.
00:13:53.620 Okay, short commercial break.
00:13:55.540 We're here on Combat History at Christmas.
00:13:57.740 We do every year with Patrick K. O'Donnell.
00:13:59.560 We're going to talk about some of the great battles that our patriots waged during the Christmas season and oftentimes on Christmas Day.
00:14:08.160 I want to thank the team put together this great, great, great music that's going to be with us all day.
00:14:14.940 Short commercial break.
00:14:15.740 Back with Patrick K. O'Donnell in a moment.
00:14:17.120 Our anhediç››e is singing in the wild.
00:14:21.620 The haughting prayers of Avasa, Christ-wise the living vow.
00:14:28.580 And very gentle in Christ parce Jésus, thy solely ésre did you.
00:14:34.920 Oh, God, do the rising of Nevertheless and the running of the deal,
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00:16:18.520 Okay, welcome back.
00:16:39.340 Christmas Day.
00:16:40.280 I hope you're having a terrific Christmas.
00:16:42.580 If you're watching or listening, I really appreciate it.
00:16:46.460 Get a cup of Warpath coffee at warpath.coffee and slash war room.
00:16:54.380 Enjoy yourself.
00:16:55.060 That's how we start the day.
00:16:57.040 You even need to get jacked up even on a mellow Christmas day.
00:17:00.580 You've got a big day ahead of you, right?
00:17:02.580 So for those of you who didn't go to midnight mass or evening services yesterday, coming back from church services, we welcome you on Christmas Day.
00:17:09.620 We do this as a traditional honor to honor patriots, to honor our country on Christmas Day.
00:17:16.140 The combat history of Christmas, American patriots at war during the Christmas season and oftentimes on Christmas Day.
00:17:23.600 You know, Jesse Fremont is one of my favorite – the Fremonts are one of my favorite couples in American history, and particularly that age of the Old West and really the rise of America as a world power.
00:17:39.840 Her father was Thomas Hart Benton, who arguably, I think for Missouri, the most powerful – one of the most powerful senators in the United States Senate in the run-up to the Civil War.
00:17:49.600 Her husband, the great pathfinder, John C. Fremont, was actually – Lincoln was not the first Republican nominee.
00:17:56.300 It was John C. Fremont.
00:17:57.720 Fremont ran in 1856, and Trump took the – Lincoln took the nomination away from Seward and Chase and Fremont in 1860, kind of out of nowhere, really a surprise candidate, although he was kind of the – I think the ones that abolitionists trusted the most, although he was not a fire-breathing abolitionist.
00:18:18.840 There's a story, Patrick O'Donnell, that when Fremont actually as the military – he was the senior general in the West at the beginning of the Civil War.
00:18:29.560 He actually put out a proclamation that freed the slaves in Missouri and in territories under his control, which is exactly what they didn't want to have happen.
00:18:40.100 They're trying to keep the border states of Kentucky and Delaware, Maryland, and particularly Missouri, which had had a lot of partisan ranger fighting bloody Kansas and all that.
00:18:50.080 So, you know, Lincoln sent him a direct telegram and kind of put him on notice, hey, you know, I'm the commander-in-chief.
00:18:57.580 You've got to run this by me.
00:18:59.040 And he put his wife, Jessie Bentham, Fremont, on a train to deliver his response.
00:19:07.440 She gets to the White House or she gets to the Union Station.
00:19:10.540 They take her to the Willard Hotel, and I think it's midnight or 1 o'clock in the morning.
00:19:14.400 You know, it's like taking the red eye.
00:19:16.340 It took multiple days to get there.
00:19:18.200 And she sent a message immediately from the Willard, which was obviously very dialed into the White House, to the White House, that she was there.
00:19:24.840 And Lincoln, I think it was Hay, the young secretary, John Hay, sent a message to her, come immediately to the White House because Lincoln needed to hear this response from Fremont.
00:19:35.360 And, you know, she gets there and it's got – I don't know, it's 1 o'clock in the morning.
00:19:39.300 She gets there and she gives the letter, and I don't think the letter exactly was what President Lincoln was, you know, thinking – you know, wanted to see.
00:19:47.280 And he's kind of reading it, and I think he asked her a question or he looked up.
00:19:50.820 He did something, and she just – she just on a full board fuselage, boom, hit him, letting him know in her opinion, you know, he was not half the man her husband was.
00:20:02.080 And quite frankly, he was kind of a clown, and he was the great – Fremont was the great pathfinder, really the leader.
00:20:07.200 And she – and he needed to start – he needed to start – he needed to start listening to Fremont.
00:20:13.880 Lincoln cut the conversation off pretty quickly and basically told, hey, get her out of town, get her back to the Willard, but get her on the next train back to Missouri.
00:20:24.720 And then he relieved – he relieved Fremont for cause, I think, 48 hours later.
00:20:29.900 So she was not shy about taking on the powers that be.
00:20:33.740 She had been raised by one of the most powerful people in Washington and was not beyond telling somebody what they could do with it.
00:20:40.380 So it's quite fascinating that the Rangers – that the Scouts were named in her honor.
00:20:45.500 How did that happen?
00:20:47.340 They are – the Scouts began in Missouri in that cauldron of brother against brother, this, you know, inner rivalry between, you know, people next door, neighbors, were fighting each other.
00:20:58.220 And Fremont is put in there along with the men that he has, and he raises a series of Scouts, and they are named in Jesse's honor.
00:21:11.700 The first commander of the Scouts is a guy by the name of Carpenter.
00:21:15.400 And this is really made for a movie, Steve.
00:21:18.420 The Carpenter is kind of – he's just full of it in many cases.
00:21:24.160 He's anti-slave.
00:21:26.340 He claims that he was on the John Brown raid and then escaped through a culvert.
00:21:31.420 He's a crack shot.
00:21:32.720 He wears velvet everywhere, gold chains, even though he's a scout and wears a Confederate uniform.
00:21:39.940 He dresses as a woman in one of the missions to get the plans at Fort Donaldson.
00:21:44.580 But he's also a guy that will steal anything that's not nailed down.
00:21:51.180 And this creates a little bit of a reputation for the Scouts, and it's a reputation that's not something that the Army likes.
00:22:00.460 And they eventually cashier him out.
00:22:03.140 And the Scouts are broken up, but a core of these men remain.
00:22:08.900 And they go with General Milroy's command, and then it goes to a guy by the name of Avril, who we are now at 1864, as I mentioned.
00:22:17.440 And there's this raid that needs to take place to relieve pressure on Knoxville.
00:22:22.200 And Avril has this core of men who are crack shots that wear Confederate uniforms,
00:22:28.660 and they have to lead his force of about 2,000 men down the backside of West Virginia, the east side of West Virginia,
00:22:36.180 to Salem, Virginia, which is outside of Roanoke today, to take out the rail hub and rail stations and trestles
00:22:43.780 that are part of the Virginia and Tennessee Railroad, which will supply Longstreet down at Knoxville
00:22:49.380 and also potentially relieve his forces.
00:22:51.580 And these men have basically a death march across this most rugged terrain in West Virginia.
00:22:59.380 And it's in December.
00:23:01.000 There's snow everywhere.
00:23:02.640 The horses, the shoes go off.
00:23:05.480 It is an incredible series of endurances that these men have to go through.
00:23:11.480 And it's the Scouts that are out front.
00:23:12.880 And Avril takes what was then sort of like the machine gun of the Civil War, the Spencer carbine,
00:23:21.140 which is something you could basically fire as quickly as you pull the lever back and pull the trigger.
00:23:27.320 These men were armed with Spencer carbines as well as Colt, Army Colt pistols.
00:23:33.200 Both the weapons that I have in my hand were carried by men in the book that I wrote about.
00:23:39.000 And they are then, you know, on this basically death march.
00:23:41.980 Hang on for a second.
00:23:42.660 I just want to make sure I get the time right.
00:23:45.620 This was the fall of 1863.
00:23:47.380 So this was Christmas 1863 or Christmas 1864.
00:23:51.460 I think it's Christmas 1863.
00:23:53.620 Christmas 1863, yes.
00:23:56.280 Yes, it's 1863.
00:23:57.160 And into New Year's 1864.
00:23:59.200 Now, the Spencer carbines and the Colt, Army Colts, they were only, correct me if I'm wrong,
00:24:04.880 they were only given to the most elite troops, right?
00:24:07.340 Because the Spencer carbine was just coming into full manufacture.
00:24:10.020 And the Colt, the Army Colt was the best precision weapon, handgun at the time.
00:24:16.400 Yes.
00:24:16.880 Well, in terms of the Colt, that was given to most, many men as a sidearm.
00:24:22.560 But it would be the Cavalry and especially the Scouts, as well as John Singleton Mosby,
00:24:27.340 who would carry these along with the Navy.
00:24:29.400 The Colt, the Army Colt was a .44 caliber pistol.
00:24:32.760 The Navy was a .36.
00:24:33.920 But it was all about speed and basically attacking the enemy quickly.
00:24:40.300 And they would use pistols on horseback.
00:24:43.240 Much of this book is just action-packed.
00:24:46.280 It's guys on horseback getting in ambushes.
00:24:49.260 But yes, the more elite Union units would have the Spencer,
00:24:52.500 which I tell the story of the Spencer in the book as well.
00:24:55.000 It's Lincoln himself that tests Spencer with the Spencer's designer.
00:25:01.000 They go out of the White House, and it's the Washington Monument is currently being under construction,
00:25:07.240 and they pull out a target.
00:25:09.020 And they give Abe Lincoln a Spencer, and he's able to hit several bullseye with the Spencer. 0.64
00:25:15.980 And, I mean, it would have changed the war if they had put it in the hands of most Union soldiers,
00:25:24.380 but it was a situation where they didn't have enough ammunition in most cases.
00:25:29.940 The demands that it would have taken to arm over a million men with the Spencer carbine were too high at that time.
00:25:37.620 Various things that occurred.
00:25:40.660 We're going to go to break here in about a minute or so, about 90 seconds.
00:25:43.280 So let me – I've spent many Christmases down at Salem.
00:25:47.400 I've got a family down there.
00:25:48.920 I'm from Richmond and Norfolk, but I spent a lot of time in Salem, particularly over Christmas.
00:25:54.320 Those are not mountains.
00:25:55.640 Coming out of West Virginia and Western Virginia down to that railroad center in Salem and in Roanoke,
00:26:01.040 that's not someplace you want to be out traveling a lot on foot or on horseback over Christmas.
00:26:07.960 How did – what was so important?
00:26:10.320 Why would the urgency that you would send troops, particularly elite troops, into that type of a journey?
00:26:18.280 The urgency is that Knoxville is about to fall and they need to cut the supply line,
00:26:23.760 the Virginia-Tennessee Railroad, which runs through Salem along with other points all the way down to Tennessee.
00:26:30.060 And the plan is to act as a diversion, to basically cut the supply line, maybe cut the ability for the Confederacy to remove Longstreet from down there or supply him,
00:26:41.920 but also act as a distraction to draw troops away from that front to deal with this new threat.
00:26:49.960 And this new threat creates a massive response from the Confederates. 0.70
00:26:54.440 Six commands of Confederates on horseback, largely, then go after Avril and these scouts.
00:27:01.500 And it is a brutal march through the mountains, as you mentioned.
00:27:06.040 But they also have to evade constantly the Confederates, which are on their tail.
00:27:09.900 After they destroy the railroad, they then have to escape.
00:27:13.000 And it's the scouts that do some amazing things, Steve.
00:27:16.380 They run into, for instance, an enemy scout.
00:27:20.800 Good.
00:27:21.320 I tell you, hang on.
00:27:22.000 Hang on.
00:27:22.740 Let's get some Christmas music again.
00:27:25.040 We're going to come back right after a short break.
00:27:29.180 Patrick K. O'Donnell with Combat History at Christmas here in the War Room, our annual special.
00:27:33.120 We're going to be back in a moment.
00:27:34.120 We're going to be back in a moment.
00:28:04.120 We're going to be back in a moment.
00:28:05.120 We're going to be back in a moment.
00:28:06.120 We're going to be back in a moment.
00:28:34.100 We're going to be back in a moment.
00:28:36.100 We're going to be back in a moment.
00:28:52.420 A Christmas special, the Combat History of Christmas.
00:29:03.200 Patrick K. O'Donnell's done this for us for many, many, many years.
00:29:07.840 When did they actually get to the railroad line of Salem?
00:29:12.460 Was it around Christmas Day?
00:29:13.800 Put it in perspective in the holiday season because it's bitter cold.
00:29:19.980 I mean, when you're in Salem, you're in the mountains right there,
00:29:22.220 but there's much higher mountains right around it,
00:29:25.740 and particularly the route they were coming.
00:29:28.320 When did the battle actually take place?
00:29:32.120 It's in the middle of December that this takes place,
00:29:35.340 and they then, it's a little bit after December, a little middle of December,
00:29:39.820 that they actually destroy the rails.
00:29:42.260 They basically twist the railroad ties.
00:29:45.440 They burn all the trestles.
00:29:46.920 They burn any infrastructure that's in the depot,
00:29:49.440 and then they have to get home,
00:29:52.280 and this is, they're over 200 miles away from their home base,
00:29:56.820 which is near New Creek.
00:30:01.560 It's in Maryland slash West Virginia,
00:30:04.060 which is up near Cumberland, Maryland,
00:30:06.900 and they have to somehow get back,
00:30:08.840 and there's six commands of Confederates.
00:30:11.440 There's thousands of Confederates that are swarming the area,
00:30:14.120 and they have to get home,
00:30:16.460 and there's a number of rivers that they have to cross to get home,
00:30:20.960 but they're kind of lost in a sense,
00:30:24.620 so General Avril orders the scouts to find somebody that knows them,
00:30:29.680 that can take sort of across some of the rivers,
00:30:32.580 and they found a roving physician who was kind of making his rounds to people,
00:30:39.600 and Avril takes him,
00:30:40.900 the scouts take him in,
00:30:41.940 they bring him in front of Avril,
00:30:43.500 and they say,
00:30:44.360 and Avril says,
00:30:45.140 you have five minutes to make a decision,
00:30:47.560 and he brings out his watch,
00:30:49.340 and he brings out his,
00:30:50.300 probably his cult army,
00:30:52.860 and says,
00:30:53.760 I will kill you if you don't give me,
00:30:55.980 you know,
00:30:56.640 safe passage,
00:30:57.440 and I'll give you $500 in gold,
00:31:00.100 as well as safe passage of your family if you comply,
00:31:03.940 and the thing,
00:31:04.620 the clock ticks down to around four and a half minutes,
00:31:08.400 and then the doctor finally scums,
00:31:10.480 and agrees to sort of lead them across one of these bridges,
00:31:14.260 and as the scouts get towards the bridge,
00:31:17.500 one of these crucial bridges that they have to cross,
00:31:20.320 the bridge is about to be fired,
00:31:22.100 and the scouts literally intercept a Confederate rider,
00:31:25.780 who's also a scout,
00:31:27.360 but in their forces,
00:31:28.560 with a message to burn the bridge,
00:31:31.100 and they basically take the message,
00:31:33.220 and then are able to seize the bridge,
00:31:35.260 before it's burned,
00:31:36.900 and are able to cross,
00:31:39.220 but in the process,
00:31:41.100 part of Avril's command is left behind,
00:31:44.160 the 14th Pennsylvania,
00:31:45.820 they burn the bridge,
00:31:47.680 and these men are escaping from Confederates,
00:31:50.800 and it's an epic story,
00:31:52.700 they have to cross,
00:31:53.580 you know,
00:31:54.360 the part of the river near Covington,
00:31:57.080 which is,
00:31:57.860 you know,
00:31:58.140 frozen,
00:31:59.080 they forded,
00:32:00.840 many men die,
00:32:02.340 in the process,
00:32:03.640 and they're making their way back,
00:32:05.840 towards New Creek,
00:32:07.060 which is about,
00:32:07.720 you know,
00:32:08.040 200 miles away.
00:32:11.400 Before we get to Trenton,
00:32:13.780 I want to talk just about the book,
00:32:15.700 Avril,
00:32:16.480 General Avril,
00:32:17.180 look,
00:32:20.160 I tell people,
00:32:21.540 if you,
00:32:21.960 there was a,
00:32:23.940 the war in the East,
00:32:25.040 particularly,
00:32:25.640 not Mosby's Rangers,
00:32:26.820 but particularly the two,
00:32:27.900 the two big army in Northern Virginia,
00:32:29.780 and the army of the Potomac,
00:32:31.320 whether under McClellan,
00:32:32.380 or under Grant,
00:32:33.680 as intense as that combat was,
00:32:36.640 much of it was by,
00:32:38.340 the terms of chivalry at the time,
00:32:40.680 and what was perceived,
00:32:41.500 because remember,
00:32:41.860 the 19th century,
00:32:44.100 had a very different code of honor,
00:32:45.540 than modernity,
00:32:49.280 even in the huge battles,
00:32:51.360 of the armies of the West,
00:32:53.180 but going on,
00:32:54.300 and I think up to a third,
00:32:55.820 of the conflict in the Civil War,
00:32:57.300 and particularly the one,
00:32:58.260 that was the nasties,
00:32:59.100 was the ugliest,
00:32:59.620 with these partisan Rangers,
00:33:01.660 Missouri,
00:33:02.360 bloody Kansas,
00:33:03.340 being a,
00:33:04.000 a kind of a precursor,
00:33:05.240 to what was to come,
00:33:06.980 and this is one of the powers,
00:33:08.880 of Lee at the end,
00:33:10.320 because the whole thing,
00:33:11.300 could have evolved to that,
00:33:12.360 unless Lee had surrendered,
00:33:13.480 and worked out a deal with Grant,
00:33:14.720 and that's why they didn't want,
00:33:16.400 to go back to this kind of,
00:33:17.520 partisan warfare,
00:33:18.680 but Missouri particularly,
00:33:20.000 the border states overall,
00:33:21.140 but Missouri particularly,
00:33:22.060 was a cauldron,
00:33:23.620 a cauldron,
00:33:24.340 of the most brutal,
00:33:25.740 fighting I think,
00:33:27.160 in the nastiest fighting,
00:33:28.360 in the Civil War,
00:33:29.440 was it Quantrell's Raiders,
00:33:32.360 this is where I think,
00:33:33.220 Jesse James,
00:33:33.960 and these guys came up from,
00:33:35.300 you know,
00:33:35.520 the bank robbers later on,
00:33:38.120 who basically were,
00:33:39.060 Confederate partisans,
00:33:40.200 you had the red legs,
00:33:41.680 have you ever seen,
00:33:42.260 the outlaw Josie Wales,
00:33:43.720 it talks about the Union,
00:33:45.220 troops,
00:33:47.140 they had these,
00:33:47.740 but General Avril,
00:33:49.120 is also one of the most,
00:33:49.900 controversial guy,
00:33:50.880 I mean he's not,
00:33:52.040 he's no angel,
00:33:53.420 right,
00:33:53.840 General Avril,
00:33:55.340 because,
00:33:56.240 correct me if,
00:33:56.700 correct me if I'm wrong,
00:33:58.640 wearing a Confederate uniform,
00:34:00.220 as a Union,
00:34:01.600 special forces operator,
00:34:03.240 or special operator,
00:34:04.760 is,
00:34:05.220 that's an immediate,
00:34:06.580 in the rules of war,
00:34:07.820 at that time,
00:34:08.900 you were immediately shot,
00:34:10.280 or hung,
00:34:10.780 there was no,
00:34:11.160 there was no trial,
00:34:12.220 nothing,
00:34:12.560 if you're animate,
00:34:14.040 you're,
00:34:14.260 you're,
00:34:14.500 you're,
00:34:14.800 you're,
00:34:15.260 you're a dead man,
00:34:16.220 correct?
00:34:17.140 This is an immediate death sentence,
00:34:18.960 if you're uncovered,
00:34:20.080 and that's why these guys,
00:34:21.020 are so amazing Steve,
00:34:22.800 they had to,
00:34:23.720 talk their way out of,
00:34:25.380 countless situations,
00:34:26.940 or shoot their way out of,
00:34:28.560 countless situations,
00:34:29.780 or they were dead men,
00:34:31.000 like Jack Sterry,
00:34:32.100 who I had mentioned,
00:34:32.860 who was killed at the plains,
00:34:34.380 in 1862,
00:34:35.340 that many of these men,
00:34:37.460 were hanging from a rope,
00:34:39.060 during the war,
00:34:40.180 that's why their story,
00:34:41.360 is untold,
00:34:42.460 that's why the unvanquished,
00:34:44.200 is really,
00:34:44.920 you know,
00:34:45.380 many ways,
00:34:46.400 that their story,
00:34:47.800 is extraordinary,
00:34:49.100 in how they changed,
00:34:50.360 the war,
00:34:51.380 but equally,
00:34:52.540 interesting,
00:34:53.520 and extraordinary,
00:34:54.300 is the men,
00:34:54.700 that they had to fight,
00:34:56.220 and,
00:34:57.160 as you mentioned,
00:34:58.260 it's,
00:34:58.360 it's a miracle,
00:34:59.620 that the United States,
00:35:01.100 won the Civil War,
00:35:02.480 if you really look at,
00:35:03.700 at everything,
00:35:04.620 and how it,
00:35:05.260 oh no,
00:35:05.700 no,
00:35:05.960 it's,
00:35:06.960 even with the overwhelming,
00:35:08.940 equipment,
00:35:09.980 and manpower,
00:35:11.220 just the,
00:35:11.800 the vast territory,
00:35:13.400 they had to do,
00:35:13.940 and that's why,
00:35:14.340 at the end,
00:35:15.400 and Sherman,
00:35:16.640 told Lincoln,
00:35:17.460 Sherman told Lincoln,
00:35:18.800 this in the first,
00:35:19.760 30 days of the war,
00:35:20.660 60 days of the war,
00:35:22.140 he met with him,
00:35:23.160 he had come from Louisiana,
00:35:24.460 where I think it was LSU,
00:35:25.720 today,
00:35:26.160 was he,
00:35:26.440 he was running the military academy,
00:35:28.440 that was just starting,
00:35:29.300 he came and he said,
00:35:30.400 look,
00:35:31.020 he was from Ohio,
00:35:32.120 he was the younger brother,
00:35:33.060 of another powerful,
00:35:34.620 senator from the Midwest,
00:35:36.500 senator,
00:35:37.000 I think it was John Sherman,
00:35:38.360 and he had,
00:35:38.800 he had,
00:35:39.220 and Sherman put his brother in front,
00:35:41.080 he's a West Point grad,
00:35:42.040 put him in front of Lincoln,
00:35:42.760 said,
00:35:43.020 hey,
00:35:43.520 this guy could get a general ship,
00:35:44.860 or something like that,
00:35:45.500 and Lincoln asked him about his thoughts,
00:35:47.780 and he said,
00:35:48.340 let me be brutally frank,
00:35:50.100 you have no idea,
00:35:51.180 what you're up against,
00:35:52.080 he says,
00:35:52.660 you're going to have to burn to the ground,
00:35:55.020 every major city in the South,
00:35:56.700 and you're going to have to kill, 0.91
00:35:57.680 vast proportions,
00:35:58.880 of the civilian population,
00:36:00.780 because these people,
00:36:01.840 will not quit,
00:36:02.920 he says,
00:36:03.240 you don't really understand,
00:36:04.960 how ornery,
00:36:06.140 and how cussed,
00:36:07.100 the cussedness,
00:36:08.020 the grit,
00:36:08.560 the determination,
00:36:09.620 and just the old-fashioned,
00:36:10.880 orneriness they are,
00:36:11.800 he says,
00:36:12.120 if you think,
00:36:12.780 we're going to do this,
00:36:13.800 with a couple of,
00:36:14.520 you know,
00:36:15.100 armies,
00:36:15.820 fighting each other,
00:36:17.120 that's not the way,
00:36:18.120 this is going to end,
00:36:18.900 and they,
00:36:19.440 Lincoln basically told his guys,
00:36:21.720 get him out of here,
00:36:22.580 and they sent him out west,
00:36:24.300 six months later,
00:36:25.260 he's in an insane asylum,
00:36:26.580 they put him in for a medical,
00:36:27.660 had a medical breakdown,
00:36:29.400 because he kept talking about,
00:36:30.700 how you had to go,
00:36:32.260 and of course,
00:36:33.000 it was obvious,
00:36:33.700 in fact,
00:36:34.040 one time,
00:36:35.020 one of the viewers on the show,
00:36:36.160 in one of the chat rooms,
00:36:37.380 thought I was defending Sherman's,
00:36:39.600 march to the sea,
00:36:40.580 I'm not defending it at all,
00:36:42.840 but as a way to break,
00:36:44.940 the back of the confederacy,
00:36:46.660 from that military tactic,
00:36:48.260 he knew what he had to do,
00:36:49.260 this was not about armies,
00:36:50.860 this was about populations,
00:36:52.520 and you know,
00:36:52.880 Columbia,
00:36:53.300 South Carolina,
00:36:54.140 Atlanta,
00:36:55.600 you know,
00:36:55.840 Richmond,
00:36:56.220 Virginia,
00:36:56.600 my hometown,
00:36:57.800 they burned them right to,
00:36:58.960 New Orleans,
00:36:59.780 these were,
00:37:00.260 these were,
00:37:01.180 you know,
00:37:01.440 they took the torch to the enemy,
00:37:02.820 so the book is fascinating,
00:37:04.020 it's going to be huge,
00:37:05.060 I want to go back to the revolution,
00:37:07.100 because in the revolution,
00:37:08.580 also,
00:37:09.180 it started with militias,
00:37:10.580 at Lexington and Concord,
00:37:12.120 or,
00:37:12.660 and even beforehand,
00:37:14.060 with the,
00:37:14.300 we just had the 250th anniversary,
00:37:16.400 of the,
00:37:17.240 you know,
00:37:17.600 the Boston Tea Party,
00:37:18.940 it was militias,
00:37:19.940 or kind of organized gangs,
00:37:21.560 that fought kind of guerrilla warfare,
00:37:23.720 but when we decided,
00:37:24.800 that we had to stand up to the British, 0.95
00:37:26.460 and the British really,
00:37:27.440 put the biggest expeditionary force,
00:37:29.400 they'd ever put in New York Harbor,
00:37:31.380 right after the declaration of independence,
00:37:33.160 I keep telling people,
00:37:34.040 hey,
00:37:34.420 I know we celebrate the 4th of July,
00:37:35.980 it's amazing,
00:37:36.960 but that was a group of brilliant lawyers,
00:37:38.560 that wrote a divinely inspired document,
00:37:41.340 that inspired everybody,
00:37:42.160 and gave us the moral high ground,
00:37:43.880 but the British were already sending,
00:37:45.220 an expeditionary force,
00:37:46.900 to say,
00:37:47.340 hey,
00:37:47.580 I saw the document,
00:37:48.840 the document's lovely,
00:37:50.420 but we're the British,
00:37:51.740 we had the British Army,
00:37:52.720 and the Royal Navy,
00:37:53.340 and we're going to put this down,
00:37:55.040 and from that time,
00:37:55.900 they landed,
00:37:56.300 I think in late August,
00:37:57.980 all the way up to Christmas,
00:38:00.480 it was one rolling defeat,
00:38:02.240 after the other,
00:38:02.780 your books have been amazing,
00:38:04.740 about,
00:38:06.060 give us the preamble,
00:38:08.600 to Trenton and Christmas Night,
00:38:10.740 because your books,
00:38:12.080 show the courage,
00:38:13.260 of the Americans,
00:38:14.220 fighting the first time,
00:38:15.560 as really organized units,
00:38:17.500 right,
00:38:17.800 with all these heroic stories,
00:38:19.400 but in the bravery of them,
00:38:20.580 it's one,
00:38:21.140 basically from August,
00:38:22.700 to the cross of Delaware,
00:38:24.340 to Hyde in Pennsylvania,
00:38:25.340 it's six months,
00:38:27.200 of one continuous,
00:38:28.620 tactical defeat,
00:38:30.840 Brother O'Donnell.
00:38:32.580 Absolutely,
00:38:33.520 this is a,
00:38:34.420 as you mentioned,
00:38:35.860 the British come, 0.99
00:38:36.900 and they're there to crush,
00:38:38.800 and they crush everything,
00:38:41.360 in their path,
00:38:42.420 prior to that,
00:38:43.380 every insurrection,
00:38:45.060 that occurred in their empire,
00:38:46.200 any little hiccup,
00:38:47.420 was immediately stomped,
00:38:48.880 and crushed,
00:38:49.580 by a massive army,
00:38:50.900 and their massive navy,
00:38:52.740 so this is a situation,
00:38:54.560 where,
00:38:54.960 it looks like,
00:38:56.320 mission impossible,
00:38:57.900 and as you mentioned,
00:38:59.940 beginning in August,
00:39:01.140 with the defeat,
00:39:02.060 at the Battle of Brooklyn,
00:39:03.000 which is an epic disaster,
00:39:04.860 it's the men,
00:39:06.240 that I write about in my books,
00:39:08.220 Washington's Immortals,
00:39:09.920 as well as the Indispensables,
00:39:11.240 that save the army,
00:39:12.580 first,
00:39:13.280 the Immortals save the army,
00:39:15.040 with an epic rear stand,
00:39:17.080 at Brooklyn,
00:39:18.020 which buys the army,
00:39:19.040 an hour more precious,
00:39:20.060 in our history,
00:39:20.600 than any other,
00:39:21.140 and then it's the Indispensables,
00:39:23.000 the Marblehead men,
00:39:23.820 that row the army,
00:39:25.000 across the Delaware,
00:39:27.120 I mean sorry,
00:39:27.640 not the Delaware,
00:39:28.180 the East River,
00:39:29.420 and save it,
00:39:30.920 by bringing it to Manhattan,
00:39:33.800 but then from there,
00:39:35.480 it's one defeat,
00:39:36.780 after another.
00:39:37.440 But hold it,
00:39:38.180 but hang on,
00:39:39.420 even to get there,
00:39:40.160 I want to make sure,
00:39:40.960 you document,
00:39:42.480 and this is why I love your books,
00:39:43.980 and our audience does,
00:39:44.740 you spend so many years in research,
00:39:46.380 you get to journals,
00:39:47.520 you have the conversations,
00:39:49.160 the first person accounts,
00:39:50.660 the American Thermopylae,
00:39:52.800 takes place now,
00:39:53.700 in an unmarked area,
00:39:54.620 of downtown Brooklyn,
00:39:56.160 and American Dunkirk,
00:39:57.780 with all these miracles,
00:39:58.940 that make it happen,
00:39:59.700 right there,
00:40:00.360 where the Brooklyn Bridge is today,
00:40:02.000 and you read,
00:40:02.740 how close,
00:40:04.120 this revolution,
00:40:05.120 could have collapsed,
00:40:05.940 and at the very moment,
00:40:09.580 it's on the edge of collapse,
00:40:10.700 it's not simply Washington,
00:40:12.740 and his staff like Hamilton,
00:40:14.120 and these guys that step up,
00:40:15.620 it's ordinary men,
00:40:16.660 whose names are lost to history,
00:40:17.920 except for the fact,
00:40:18.560 that you went back and did it,
00:40:19.520 the American Thermopylae,
00:40:20.880 with charge after charge,
00:40:22.660 in this near,
00:40:23.240 I guess the stone house,
00:40:24.620 near where downtown Brooklyn is today,
00:40:26.780 and then the Dunkirk,
00:40:28.400 American Dunkirk,
00:40:29.860 on the shore,
00:40:30.580 right there on the East River,
00:40:32.140 near where the Brooklyn Bridge is today,
00:40:34.080 and both times,
00:40:35.420 they barely,
00:40:36.480 you know,
00:40:36.900 they barely hold,
00:40:37.840 or barely escape,
00:40:39.180 and these hinges of history,
00:40:40.520 are about individuals,
00:40:41.740 it's really about,
00:40:42.720 the deplorables,
00:40:44.220 the average man,
00:40:46.060 who just sits there,
00:40:46.980 and does uncommon valor,
00:40:48.160 at these critical moments,
00:40:50.260 the books that I've written,
00:40:51.560 are about personal agency,
00:40:53.600 it's about a small group of individuals,
00:40:55.980 that change history,
00:40:57.780 this happens over and over,
00:40:59.460 the United States,
00:41:00.240 has been very,
00:41:01.080 very blessed,
00:41:02.260 to produce,
00:41:03.740 extraordinary,
00:41:05.200 men and women,
00:41:06.080 that have changed history,
00:41:07.220 and that's certainly the case,
00:41:08.620 with Washington's Immortals,
00:41:09.860 and the Indispensables,
00:41:11.240 which,
00:41:11.800 they're part of,
00:41:12.600 I argue,
00:41:13.240 the greatest generation,
00:41:14.240 the Revolutionary War,
00:41:15.540 generation,
00:41:16.240 the founders,
00:41:17.600 are the greatest generation,
00:41:18.560 because they produce,
00:41:19.980 something more powerful,
00:41:21.220 than bullets,
00:41:22.040 or bayonets,
00:41:23.040 it's the idea,
00:41:24.540 the idea of freedom,
00:41:25.960 and liberty,
00:41:26.600 which is more powerful,
00:41:28.280 than anything else,
00:41:29.860 in history.
00:41:31.200 Amazing.
00:41:32.200 Patrick,
00:41:32.860 hang on for a second,
00:41:33.760 we're going to go,
00:41:34.820 to the run up,
00:41:36.720 and Christmas night,
00:41:38.500 right,
00:41:38.980 of this,
00:41:39.820 to really save this,
00:41:40.780 Christmas night,
00:41:41.580 of 1776,
00:41:43.320 with the Revolution,
00:41:44.260 and the balance,
00:41:45.600 General Washington,
00:41:46.820 crosses the Delaware,
00:41:47.720 in an amazing,
00:41:49.180 military operation,
00:41:50.520 on Christmas night,
00:41:51.860 back in a moment,
00:41:52.780 Patrick O'Donnell.
00:41:53.460 And here,
00:41:55.660 may God bless you,
00:41:57.780 and send you,
00:41:59.580 a hallelujah,
00:42:04.400 God bless the master,
00:42:05.880 God bless the mistress, 1.00
00:42:07.380 and all the little children,
00:42:11.280 and all the table go,
00:42:13.380 for it is Christmas time,
00:42:16.000 and we travel,
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00:43:50.900 O come,
00:43:58.380 O come,
00:43:58.880 O come,
00:43:59.440 O come,
00:43:59.880 Emmanuel,
00:44:04.040 and handsome,
00:44:05.520 captive Israel,
00:44:08.680 that mourns in the body,
00:44:12.780 as I fear,
00:44:16.420 come back,
00:44:21.340 Christmas Day,
00:44:22.600 2023,
00:44:23.740 Patrick,
00:44:26.880 in your lead-up books,
00:44:29.660 Washington's Immortals,
00:44:30.580 and the Indispensables,
00:44:32.100 it is about human agencies,
00:44:33.720 one of the things we talk about on the show all the time,
00:44:36.220 and that's why this audience,
00:44:37.540 this war room posse,
00:44:38.380 has become such a massive political force in the country,
00:44:41.180 using their own agency,
00:44:43.200 everyday men and women.
00:44:44.100 What astonished me about the story about to tell us,
00:44:48.580 and we'll start here in this last block of the first hour,
00:44:51.300 we'll continue on,
00:44:52.480 because it's a story that people have to understand about what this country is about.
00:44:58.080 We went on a series of,
00:45:02.120 I mean,
00:45:03.280 catastrophic defeats with all this heroism,
00:45:05.400 and at the last second,
00:45:06.280 saving everything to make sure the army wasn't destroyed,
00:45:09.560 because the British idea at the time,
00:45:11.640 and that's why they wanted to get out of Boston,
00:45:12.960 and these other places is to destroy the Continental Army.
00:45:16.800 They figured they could destroy the Continental Army,
00:45:18.980 and take out General Washington,
00:45:21.540 that the whole thing was collapsed.
00:45:23.360 And for six months,
00:45:24.340 there's just one,
00:45:25.740 we're one moment away from losing everything.
00:45:29.640 And remember,
00:45:30.200 they weren't getting a ton of support from Philadelphia.
00:45:35.920 They couldn't pay them,
00:45:37.240 they had a tough time paying them,
00:45:38.480 there was all types of problems with logistics,
00:45:40.640 and ammunition,
00:45:41.860 and materiel,
00:45:44.140 as we say,
00:45:45.320 but they fought on.
00:45:47.880 But then,
00:45:48.580 when they crossed the other way,
00:45:49.780 immediately,
00:45:50.760 what I love about the way you tell the story,
00:45:53.340 they were immediately thinking about,
00:45:55.020 no more retreat,
00:45:55.980 but how do we go on offense?
00:45:57.380 How do we turn the tide?
00:45:58.700 We need to get some momentum here,
00:46:00.640 or we understand the whole thing's going to fall apart.
00:46:02.800 The South and the other places in New England
00:46:04.860 are just going to lose faith
00:46:05.960 that we can destroy.
00:46:07.180 Because remember,
00:46:08.540 one-third of the people were patriots
00:46:11.300 and were with the cause of liberty
00:46:13.440 and throwing off tyranny.
00:46:15.580 One-third were Tories.
00:46:16.780 One-third of our own country,
00:46:17.820 and Americans,
00:46:18.800 kind of sided with the British,
00:46:19.780 said,
00:46:19.940 hey,
00:46:20.080 we're Englishmen.
00:46:20.960 We're part of the greatest empire
00:46:22.200 that's going to even get greater
00:46:23.300 when India comes into the fold.
00:46:25.580 Why will we leave now?
00:46:27.280 We've got the best deal in the world,
00:46:28.860 and it's only going to get better.
00:46:30.460 Right?
00:46:30.820 And you're going to have to live with the fact that,
00:46:32.460 hey,
00:46:32.680 the commons is going to tell you what to do,
00:46:34.560 but we can live with that
00:46:35.360 because the economic benefits
00:46:36.580 are going to be tremendous.
00:46:37.760 Then a third,
00:46:38.520 like everything else,
00:46:39.340 and even today,
00:46:40.500 a third are in the middle.
00:46:41.640 That's just human nature.
00:46:42.620 They're going to see how this plays out.
00:46:46.600 And so with that,
00:46:47.760 the thought is they're always on offense,
00:46:50.400 and how do we get back on offense?
00:46:52.020 Patrick K. O'Donnell.
00:46:54.540 This is,
00:46:55.240 as you mentioned, Steve,
00:46:56.220 this is an American Civil War,
00:46:58.420 arguably our first Civil War.
00:47:00.200 The country is very deeply divided politically
00:47:03.520 between patriots,
00:47:06.180 between those who are loyalists,
00:47:07.760 and then, as you mentioned,
00:47:08.880 those that were in the middle
00:47:09.660 that would switch sides.
00:47:11.040 My books are replete with people
00:47:12.320 that literally jump sides
00:47:13.880 three or four times,
00:47:16.140 and it's the battles that change things.
00:47:19.000 It changes people's trajectory
00:47:20.920 and where they're going.
00:47:22.600 But it's also about a core group of people
00:47:25.640 that are so determined
00:47:27.460 that hold it all together.
00:47:29.180 But as you mentioned,
00:47:31.180 it's the winter of 1776.
00:47:34.260 It's called The Crisis by Thomas Paine,
00:47:36.960 who writes an amazing pamphlet
00:47:39.460 that captures the moment.
00:47:41.800 There's massive political divisions.
00:47:43.980 There's one defeat after another
00:47:46.360 that Washington is suffering.
00:47:48.480 And, oh, by the way,
00:47:49.900 there is hyperinflation.
00:47:51.920 Everything is more expensive.
00:47:54.280 Does this sound a little bit familiar?
00:47:55.700 Oh, it's actually 1776.
00:47:59.040 But it's in this situation
00:48:00.960 that Washington has to act
00:48:03.520 and go on the offensive.
00:48:05.420 And he knows it because
00:48:07.200 the enlistments for the army
00:48:08.960 are expiring December 15th
00:48:11.340 and then later December 31st.
00:48:13.980 This core army that he had in New York,
00:48:16.260 which was about 20,000 strong,
00:48:18.380 is now winnowing down
00:48:20.080 to thousands of men.
00:48:22.820 And he must act quickly.
00:48:25.300 He has to strike a blow
00:48:26.660 to change the course of the war.
00:48:29.040 And that's at Trenton.
00:48:30.360 And there's a bit of a problem, though.
00:48:32.300 There's a river between
00:48:33.720 Pennsylvania and New Jersey
00:48:36.040 and Trenton
00:48:37.280 where there's an outpost
00:48:39.080 of Hessian allies
00:48:42.160 with the British Army.
00:48:45.460 And they have to take it out.
00:48:47.020 They have to get across the river.
00:48:48.260 And it's the Marblehead men
00:48:49.280 that Washington, once again,
00:48:51.360 the indispensables,
00:48:52.860 that he asked if the job could be done.
00:48:55.560 And John Glover,
00:48:56.340 who's the commander of the brigade,
00:48:58.180 who was originally the commander
00:48:59.740 of the Marblehead Regiment,
00:49:01.820 the 14th Continental,
00:49:03.120 says,
00:49:03.880 don't worry,
00:49:04.500 my boys can handle it.
00:49:05.820 And that is a bit
00:49:09.860 of an understatement
00:49:10.560 in many ways
00:49:11.280 because it's a miracle
00:49:12.840 that they were able
00:49:13.560 to get across the river.
00:49:15.620 Washington had a complex plan
00:49:17.460 to take Trenton.
00:49:18.680 He divided his army
00:49:19.700 into multiple attacking forces.
00:49:23.680 And the two forces
00:49:24.960 that attacked Trenton
00:49:26.540 that were not under the command
00:49:29.180 of the Marblehead Regiment.
00:49:30.420 Hang over a second.
00:49:32.020 Hang over a second.
00:49:32.960 This is going to take us
00:49:33.660 through the break.
00:49:34.200 It isn't that
00:49:35.860 and this is my point
00:49:37.300 about risk mitigation.
00:49:38.320 And remember,
00:49:39.520 Washington was under
00:49:40.360 tremendous criticism.
00:49:42.000 You had Horatio Gates.
00:49:42.980 You had the guys
00:49:43.480 that won at Saratoga.
00:49:44.520 You had different factions
00:49:45.560 inside the Continental Congress.
00:49:47.500 There was talk
00:49:48.100 of relieving Washington
00:49:49.140 because even as small
00:49:50.980 as the army was,
00:49:51.900 they were saying,
00:49:52.420 hey, how can we have
00:49:53.160 had any real victories?
00:49:55.380 How have we not
00:49:56.160 how have we not even
00:49:58.360 been able to stop the British? 0.96
00:50:00.480 The only thing
00:50:00.760 that's really stopped them,
00:50:01.600 they stopped at the river
00:50:02.600 and come the spring,
00:50:04.420 they'll be down in Philadelphia.
00:50:06.060 They'll take in our first capital
00:50:07.560 and this game will be over.
00:50:09.120 Right.
00:50:09.720 So Washington was
00:50:10.720 under tremendous pressure.
00:50:12.960 Hang on a second.
00:50:13.580 I tell you what,
00:50:13.940 we're going to go to break.
00:50:14.720 I want to answer
00:50:15.160 that when we get back.
00:50:16.480 The just the risk
00:50:18.080 of splitting your army
00:50:19.720 into three
00:50:20.440 when people
00:50:21.200 most people say,
00:50:22.200 hey,
00:50:22.720 you want to cross 0.91
00:50:23.500 the most dangerous thing
00:50:24.980 you can do in warfare.
00:50:25.840 I've been taught
00:50:27.780 many times
00:50:28.680 is a forced crossing
00:50:30.920 of a river
00:50:32.260 at night
00:50:33.480 in winter
00:50:34.460 under combat conditions.
00:50:36.500 Right.
00:50:36.680 So the question is,
00:50:37.480 why did Washington
00:50:38.040 even split his force up
00:50:39.460 and not keep it together?
00:50:40.400 OK, we're going to take
00:50:40.980 a short commercial break.
00:50:42.400 We're going to come back.
00:50:43.380 We got the second hour.
00:50:44.520 We're also going to get
00:50:45.160 to Christmas night
00:50:46.500 in Trenton.
00:50:47.420 We're going to talk
00:50:48.040 about the Battle of the Bulge.
00:50:49.420 We're going to go
00:50:50.020 to the Chosin Reservoir,
00:50:51.320 one of the greatest examples
00:50:53.080 of the heroism
00:50:53.920 and the grit
00:50:54.540 of the United States
00:50:55.700 Marine Corps.
00:50:56.720 All of it.
00:50:57.920 And enjoy some Christmas music
00:50:59.260 on Christmas Day
00:51:00.060 here in 2023.
00:51:01.420 Be back with Patrick K. O'Donnell.
00:51:02.960 The Combat History
00:51:03.760 of Christmas next.
00:51:04.560 On Christmas Day
00:51:05.460 Our Savior Christ
00:51:06.600 that he's made me
00:51:07.600 On Christmas Day
00:51:08.540 in the morning
00:51:09.540 And we will say
00:51:11.260 our ships are free
00:51:12.320 On Christmas Day
00:51:13.400 On Christmas Day
00:51:14.400 And we will say
00:51:15.420 our ships are free
00:51:16.500 On Christmas Day
00:51:17.500 in the morning
00:51:18.560 Oh, they say
00:51:20.020 ring to Bethlehem
00:51:21.300 On Christmas Day
00:51:22.340 On Christmas Day
00:51:23.340 Well, they sail in
00:51:24.440 to Bethlehem
00:51:25.480 On Christmas Day
00:51:26.420 On Christmas Day
00:51:26.780 In the morning
00:51:27.500 And all the saints
00:51:29.420 of labor
00:51:29.620 On Christmas Day
00:51:31.240 On Christmas Day
00:51:32.600 And all the saints
00:51:33.420 of labor
00:51:33.960 On Christmas Day
00:51:35.420 In the morning
00:51:36.340 And all the angels
00:51:38.220 And them shall see
00:51:39.080 On Christmas Day
00:51:40.220 On Christmas Day
00:51:41.140 On Christmas Day
00:51:44.520 On all the souls
00:51:46.420 and the rest
00:51:47.020 Of magazines
00:51:47.560 On Christmas Day
00:51:48.580 On Christmas Day
00:51:49.440 And all the angels
00:51:51.000 Of fazla Sounds
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