On this episode of Morning Joe, host Joe Scarborough sits down with former Capitol Police Officer and author of the book, "Standing My Ground: How to Stand Your Ground in the Age of Trumpism" to discuss the events that took place on January 6th, 2019.
00:00:00.000Officer Frenone, you know, it's obviously been shocking to a lot of us, to a lot of Americans who agree the vast majority, we should point out, agree January 6th was a terrible day.
00:00:09.660We believe what we saw with our eyes that day, either in person for many people or on television.
00:00:15.480But also this narrative that's taken hold in certain quarters among Trump supporters in particular, that it actually wasn't what we saw that day.
00:00:24.680The other side of it is you've had more than 1,200 people arrested, the head of the Proud Boys and the Oath Keepers.
00:00:30.000Going to jail for a very long time, more convictions to come.
00:00:33.980Prosecutors say they're only about halfway done with the people they want to find.
00:00:37.740So how do you feel three years on after January 6th, 2021?
00:00:43.140I mean, when you mention all those investigations, you know, the Department of Justice undertaking and, you know, prosecuting more than 1,200 Americans for their actions on January 6th.
00:00:54.680It's states now starting to debate and make an effort to remove Donald Trump from the ballot.
00:01:04.840You know, all of those things, I think, are a good start and necessary.
00:01:12.020I don't want to put too much stock into any one institution.
00:01:17.700I think it's an all-hands-on-deck effort to make sure that Donald Trump doesn't assume the presidency in 2024.
00:01:24.940We all know what that's going to look like.
00:01:46.280Joe Biden has given some fiery speeches with regards to MAGA and its effort to overturn a free and fair election.
00:01:57.040But that's something that this country needs to hear every single day, specifically younger people, young voters.
00:02:03.340When I go out and talk to them, they seem completely disillusioned with the political process.
00:02:10.820And I think a lot of the problems that President Biden is dealing with now, the image problems, stem from being too soft.
00:02:21.560You know, I feel like Biden can be outraged.
00:02:25.800He can express anger without coming across as unhinged like Donald Trump.
00:02:31.280And I would like to see him fight for our democracy with the same tenacity that Donald Trump fights to destroy it.
00:02:41.820And you may hear some of that from the president today in Valley Forge, Pennsylvania, as he kind of launches that side of the campaign, which is this idea of defending our democracy.
00:02:51.260And I know you started off by saying you're surprised to call yourself a former Capitol police officer.
00:02:58.300You're also author of Standing My Ground book.
00:03:02.520And we're keeping you on for a few more minutes because you have an announcement to make right here on Morning Joe.
00:03:08.800Yeah, you know, so it's so interesting, like this whole process that where January 6th has taken this country and has taken me personally.
00:03:19.800And one of the things that I've always said and tried to live by is a saying that says until there's nothing that can be done, there's always something that can be done.
00:03:30.240And I feel like I've run my race with the Capitol police and the last 15 plus years of public service in that capacity.
00:03:38.180So here right now, I'm here to announce my candidacy for Congress in Maryland's third district.
00:03:44.060And, you know, I just want to continue what a better what better way than a continued fighting for the people of Maryland,
00:03:52.840for the people of the United States and to continue to defend democracy, because I think on January 6th it exposed, one, how weak and fragile that it is.
00:04:03.520And I don't think it's an exaggeration to say it may sound scary, but we are one election away from the extinction of democracy as we know it.
00:04:12.500I mean, Donald Trump said it himself that he is ready to be a dictator.
00:04:16.880And, you know, a lot of his supporters will sit there and say, oh, he's just joking.
00:04:20.560But how many times has he said the things that we thought were jokes that he actually did and took him seriously?
00:04:26.480So right now I'm here to announce my candidacy to fight back and be able to push back against the people in Congress right now that I spent the last 15 years of my life protecting.
00:04:37.460And I want to serve as their equal, as their colleague.
00:04:40.280I want a voice at the table and I'm ready to for that challenge.
00:04:44.800I have a quarter of Americans believing the following.
00:05:16.560You don't have anyone out there making mad statements like that on his behalf.
00:05:19.480How does he keep his very fractured coalition together?
00:05:23.040Well, look, I think Stuart raised a really good point, which is and you did, too, which is that Trump has got this, you know, 35 to 40 percent of the electorate that is with him, which means that, you know, President Biden has to work even that much harder to garner independence.
00:05:35.000It is to really rebuild the coalition or even like build a new coalition compared to what we had in 2020.
00:05:39.940I mean, Hillary's coalition was different in 16 than Biden's.
00:05:42.840And so we'll see what it shapes out to be this this time around.
00:05:45.260But, again, I think when you look at the fact that, you know, Molly just said the economy is getting better, inflation is going down, you know, the job numbers have been outstanding.
00:05:54.100You combine that with the abortion issue and, again, with the fact that democracy is truly at stake in this election, it's truly under threat.
00:06:00.840But all of those issues, I do believe, as we get closer to the election, will start to really gel in the minds of voters.
00:06:08.120You haven't even really started a general election yet.
00:06:10.500Yes, President Biden's going to be a Democratic nominee.
00:06:12.740More than likely, Trump's going to be the Republican nominee.
00:06:16.060And you are seeing this in polling, too, where a lot of voters are saying, I'm not really tuned in yet.
00:06:20.320You know, I'm going to see who the Republican nominee is going to be.
00:06:23.400I mean, once that actually is a head-to-head with Biden-Trump, I think the contrast is going to become more clear.
00:06:28.840And I think the minds of voters are going to be more made up to, you know, start to lean more into the good side of things, the pro-democracy, the pro-economy.
00:06:37.220And as long as inflation keeps going down and interest rates go down, I think that's going to make a big difference.
00:11:00.620It gets back to the railhead of the stolen election and then really the summer of love in 2020.
00:11:05.300You, your site, Gateway Pundit, and Julie Kelly as an individual and what she's been putting up across the board have really been the two people.
00:11:18.240I would put Darren Beattie in there at Revolver.
00:11:20.620But in a very small group of people have really spent and dedicated a big part of their professional careers over the last couple of years of telling the stories of what happened on J6 and really setting and resetting the narrative with this onslaught.
00:11:35.420And that's why we had the cold open at MSNBC.
00:11:37.780So we had the Valley Forge speech yesterday.
00:11:40.740Biden's determined that, you know, 60 percent of the country are domestic extremists.
00:11:46.500Give me your perspective on J6 on the third anniversary.
00:11:51.400You've done more, like I said, than virtually anybody to work this, to support the families, the individuals, but particularly to make sure that the American people knew the narrative.
00:12:06.240I'm so glad that you're doing this today on January 6th.
00:12:09.760It's hard to believe this was three years ago.
00:12:12.080You know, Steve, I can tell you, as far as with Gateway Pundit, I know when we put up articles about January 6th, even to this day, we still have an amazing amount of traffic.
00:12:26.160People are very interested in this story.
00:12:30.500And I loved, in your cold open, listening to these people talk, Joy Reid talking about some poll that said 77 percent of Democrats believe or they believe that 77 percent of the people who went inside the U.S. Capitol were violent that day.
00:12:52.160These same people probably think that the QAnon shaman was violent.
00:12:55.940And we just put up new posts, new video of the QAnon shaman outside, reading Trump's tweet about being peaceful and then telling people to go home.
00:13:07.540We saw him praying inside the Senate room.
00:13:10.300We saw him being escorted around the Capitol.
00:13:12.480There was no violence from the QAnon shaman, along with, you know, I would say probably 80, 90 percent of those people who walked in the building.
00:14:24.060But there's an interest for this, and there's a thirst and a hunger for this news because, Steve, we're telling the truth, and we all know that.
00:14:39.460We have the Julie Kelly is going to join us, who's done, dedicated her life over the last three years.
00:14:43.740This is the commemorations, the third anniversary of January 6th, an event, the full political implications, cultural implications we have not felt yet in the United States of America.
00:21:26.840It's a reason that, you know, people like Cassie Hutchinson can sit up there and just perjure herself constantly and just lie about President Trump.
00:21:35.480Why has not Mike Johnson—we've been a huge advocate of this.
00:21:38.780They've got to go in and just totally take down the J6 committee and start over again.
00:21:44.240The nation needs to get to the bottom of what happened on 3 November of 2020.
00:21:52.380It must get to the bottom of it, and it must get to the bottom of January 6th.
00:21:56.840We're not going to really be able to go forward and close these divisions until we get the facts and the truth out.
00:22:03.520So why has Johnson, who by stroke of a pen, can totally take away the January 6th committee, all these issues through the 14th Amendment, and really reconstitute the committee, and let the Democrats have a ranking member.
00:22:16.060Let the Democrats have a minority counsel.
00:22:22.500And we do this like every major committee, from the Pearl Harbor Committee to the 9-11 Committee to Watergate to all of it, the Church Committee.
00:22:32.520So it can actually act like the Congress is supposed to set up to do, sir.
00:22:36.360Yeah, that needs to happen, Steve, and it needs to happen soon.
00:22:41.200And, again, I'm glad that these individuals who were brutalized that day now have lawsuits against Mike Johnson to push him to do this.
00:22:53.440I think that's where a lot of Republicans and Trump supporters continue to be just disappointed.
00:22:59.040That would be an easy way to say that we're actually furious with the fact that these Republicans go there and they don't represent us.
00:23:08.280And they need to get this going because we need this done this year.
00:23:14.080It can't be something that continues on to next year or the year after.
00:23:17.940There's no guarantees that Republicans will have to fill in the House there.
00:23:21.100Jim, Jim, you know, there's so many things they won't touch until we force them to, like the border securing, the border cutting the spending.
00:24:27.280And you can tell from the clips that you played to open the show today just how desperate and frightened these leftists are because they know that they're losing the narrative now.
00:24:36.460As more and more of the truth comes out, they're acting very desperate and angry, just rageful at the American public like they always do because we're not believing the BS that they keep shoveling out day after day.
00:24:51.240And so I think we're on the right trajectory right now.
00:24:57.280I think it's finally acceptable for Republicans to start talking about what actually happened that day.
00:25:04.420I know that ourselves, Gateway Pundit, we've been brutalized for this over the years, and yourself, Steve, and others, because we immediately came out and started asking questions and starting out putting out video and interviews from people who were there
00:25:19.620that contradicted everything the mainstream media was saying.
00:25:22.980But now I do believe it's safe for Republicans to come out.
00:25:26.260I see a lot of Republican reporters and different news organizations that are conservative are finally starting to talk about some of this, and I think that's a good sign.
00:25:35.880I think now's the time to do it, and we have to get to the truth, as you have always said, Steve, and you've led the charge on this.
00:25:44.460Well, no, hey, trust me, I've got Julie Kelly, Jim Hofton, the Gateway Pundit, Darren Beattie, Raheem Kassam, so many, just a handful.
00:25:54.880But you guys, and it's quite amazing, given the entire apparatus, and I want to add the Fox News apparatus, and 90% of conservative media either would not touch it or drove the false narrative.
00:26:06.460What you guys did is heroic, and this is going to be looked at in years to come, just like the committees of correspondence before the revolution, of people that actually told the truth and got the truth out there.
00:26:20.140And the American people, remember, the one thing the American people have besides grit and amazing determination is common sense.
00:26:27.440And they understand when they, you know, they can weigh and measure when they're being spun, whether it's by the British aristocracy or it's by the new aristocracy of the media aristocracy in the Uniparty in this country.
00:26:41.140Where do people go for your coverage, Jim Hofton?
00:26:44.900Yes, Steve, I think you go to the Gateway Pundit.
00:26:48.260On our website, of course, we're censored and blacklisted still in a number of places, as you know.
00:26:53.780But you know what, Steve, our numbers continue to grow.
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00:33:20.840Have you ever dedicated – because I don't think a lot of people know the dedication you've had to this.
00:33:26.960You've been – if it had not been for you in your reporting and sitting through court cases and in courtrooms and tracking down the people that actually were involved in all this over the last three years,
00:33:38.240we would not be here where we are today with people having a full understanding and having a tectonic plate shift, which is why we did the cold open.
00:33:46.040The mainstream media, with all their resources, billions and billions of dollars, have not done the job you have.
00:33:51.720Just for our audience's sake, have you ever dedicated anything for three – because I've known you now for over three years, and you are on this story 24-7.
00:34:02.700Have you ever in your life dedicated three years of your life just to one topic?
00:34:11.900I mean, the only thing I've dedicated my life to, obviously, if moms out there can relate, is raising my two daughters and stepping away from my career in politics to raise my two daughters, be a full-time stay-at-home mom,
00:34:26.040which leads me to – it's just – to hear you say that and, you know, to consider this is three years already, you know, it's just amazing how life works.
00:34:35.820And I was blessed and lucky to have the flexibility and the resources and the time and the support, especially from my family, my husband and my daughters and a lot of friends to be able to do what I did and really dedicate, you know, nonstop to telling the stories of what was happening to these people and covering what was happening in the courts when no one else really was.
00:35:00.460So, I know it sounds weird, but I feel really lucky and blessed to have had this point in my life and the availability and the ability to do so to get the facts and the truth out to the American people.
00:35:16.020And I want to thank you, Steve, because you've been such a huge part of this.
00:35:19.460You know, I talked to a Washington Post reporter yesterday who's writing a story about how the J6 narrative has so dramatically shifted in the public.
00:35:28.500And, of course, I credited you and others for helping bring my work to a broader – to the broader public.
00:35:34.940And so, you know, they never thought this was going to happen, Steve.
00:35:38.680I was talking to my friend Lee Smith a couple weeks ago.
00:35:40.980They really thought they had the insurrection narrative nailed down.
00:35:43.680They really didn't think that anyone would come forward and challenge the lies that they were telling, the narrative that they were shaping, and most importantly, this abusive, retaliatory criminal prosecution of Americans.
00:35:58.140They really thought no one would do it.
00:36:00.080And I'm not patting myself on the back because I didn't do it by myself.
00:36:04.120If it wasn't for platforms like you, and certainly Tucker was instrumental, Darren Beatty, and the others that you mentioned.
00:36:11.980And, you know, we would still be suffering under the idea that this was an insurrection if we tried to overthrow the government.
00:36:21.500The reason we just have – you know, we had Jim to kind of tee it up, but we only have – we're not even going to guess she's a co-host today as Julie Kelly.
00:36:29.740I'm going to have other people associate with J6, some of the families raising money, some of the actual participants throughout the week because we're going to do this because this is –
00:36:38.380sort of – but we needed to really dedicate this show to you because, yeah, Tucker and I have easy jobs.
00:37:44.680I mean, when Jacob Chansley was photographed in the Senate, I tweeted out I'd rather have him running the country than basically anybody else who's in Washington right now.
00:37:53.100So I just didn't have the same reaction, and it felt off to me.
00:37:59.400So then really I go back to the first article that I wrote about a political prisoner was Cooey Griffin, the founder for Cowboys for Trump.
00:38:08.580And I was reading about him and how a judge in Washington had denied his release, denied bond for him.
00:38:19.140So my very first article about a political prisoner, and that was the headline, was February 4th of 2021.
00:38:25.040Also at the same time, Steve, I was following the lies about the death of Brian Sicknick, and the New York Times posting that story on January 8th, 2021, where they said Brian Sicknick was bludgeoned to death by a fire extinguisher.
00:38:41.600And I thought, well, there's videos and photographs plastered all over social media.
00:40:45.260And Capitol Police at the time, including former Chief Steve Sund, helped them do that by peddling this lie that Brian Sicknick had died as a result of injuries.
00:40:54.520Well, the New York Times was the one who accelerated that by saying he was bludgeoned to death.
00:41:00.480So this quickly shifted away from how did four Trump supporters die on January 6th?
00:41:08.680The fatal shooting, of course, of Ashley Babbitt.
00:41:11.140Then that sucked all the media attention away from the death, really murder of at least three Trump supporters at the hands of police that day.
00:41:27.340So I think those were the things, looking back now, what caught my attention and propelled my reporting at that early stage was these lies.
00:41:37.640When was the moment, excuse me, over the last three years, when was the moment that you realized that, hey, I can actually, if I keep at this, I can actually turn this thing around and get the American people to really understand what's going on?
00:41:53.920Was there a moment over the last three years?
00:41:55.820I know you started and you could see it, but because it was so overwhelming.
00:41:59.360People have to remember, it was so overwhelming.
00:42:01.720Night after night after night, this is what they were going to bludgeon Trump, the Trump movement, MAGA.
00:42:06.480They were never to, we were never returned to the nation's capital.
00:42:12.480We had, we had right there at the Breitbart Emerson City, they had for the, for two months or three months, they had, you know, a hundred up-armored National Guard guys, a couple of up-armored Humvees.
00:42:21.680The whole place was barbed wire, the Supreme Court, the Capitol.
00:42:24.480It looked like a city under siege, just the optics to show you.
00:42:28.460What was the moment, as we go to break, when you knew, hey, I can do this?
00:42:32.540I wish I could point to a moment, but I think I have to say, also, we should talk about what happened in the Whitmer Fed Knapp and covering that at the same time.
00:42:43.940I think that really put my mind around the fact that there's really something sinister that happened here, and we are going to get the truth.
00:42:51.500And that's what I would tell J6 defendants, who had no one else to really turn to except me and my editor at the time, American Greatness, flooded with outreach from J6 defendants, people being arrested.
00:43:03.080And I remember just telling them, we are going to get the truth out.
00:43:06.540It's going to happen quicker than what happened in Russiagate, which also, the truth that eventually came out.
00:43:11.460But we are going to make sure that the truth is revealed.
00:43:16.340And so I'm glad at least that wasn't an empty promise to those people.
00:46:58.220Walk people through the predicate, the preamble to J6.
00:47:03.480So I think I always go back to the Whitmer Fednapping hoax.
00:47:07.620And I need to credit BuzzFeed because their investigative report that dropped in July of 2021 exposed this huge FBI entrapment operation, at least as many FBI informants as defendants or targets, as I call them.
00:47:21.740In addition to that, you had handling agents, you had supervising agents, you had FBI undercover agents all run into this sting operation to make it look like white supremacist militiamen loyal to Donald Trump had planned to kidnap and kill Gretchen Whitmer.
00:47:37.760So after BuzzFeed dropped that report, I started following it.
00:47:41.880I know others did, including Darren Beatty.
00:47:44.660So I also, in addition to covering the J6 trials at the time, not trials hearings, I, as I said, I had that, that legal website account where I could pull up the filings.
00:47:55.320But because it was COVID, I could also listen in to all the J6 hearings in Washington.
00:48:03.120So as I'm pulling up the defense motion filings, just blown away at what these defense attorneys are finding out about all the FBI assets who stitched this group together, organized all of the events, captured all of the evidence as these guys are drunk and stoned, whatever, and concocted this plot.
00:48:24.420So you have these two things happening at the same time.
00:48:27.580Well, there's no way the FBI is conducting this huge operation for Whitmer that involved multiple FBI field offices.
00:48:35.980Christopher Ray certainly knew about it, but had nothing to do with January 6th.
00:48:40.340And I will credit Darren Beatty because he is the one that reported, first discovered, that Stephen DeAntuano, the head of the Detroit FBI field office during the Whitmer caper, was promoted by Chris Ray three months before January 6th to take over the Washington FBI field office.
00:48:58.480That, to me and others, was the huge linchpin that sort of tied the two and the very real possibility of FBI and other government assets provoking and then engaged in inciting the events of January 6th.
00:49:13.720So I've got a big piece up on Real Clear Investigations for people who want sort of an overview of what happened.
00:49:21.360And this just truly just scratches the surface of this, what happened there.
00:49:27.240But also those are on appeal in the federal and state courts.
00:49:33.960The FBI entrapment scheme is not over.
00:49:36.260And I expect those appeals to move forward this year as well.
00:49:39.660OK, here's one thing I have to have you explain to people, because, you know, MAGA is a ton of veterans or parents of active duty service members.
00:49:51.660All of us were raised to respect the police of many, many law enforcement and first responders and veterans of those in our audience are people that have been parents of it or had their parents.
00:50:02.900Be it what is most difficult about this story is what institutions that used to be considered the good guys.
00:50:11.160How did this so quickly go to the to to be not just bad guys, but demonic?
00:50:16.720The one thing that struck me in this entire thing, they are demonic when they come to this topic of J6 about what they do.
00:50:30.560I'm not really sure how that happened.
00:50:35.420It's an interesting question because I ask myself that, you know, I'm not from a law enforcement family.
00:50:41.960I respect law enforcement, but I've always sort of had a skeptical eye towards them and also prosecutors for things that I covered when I worked in politics decades ago and not in Illinois.
00:50:52.880But aside from that, I think because they got away with so much during the first war on terror.
00:50:59.280And then you've got to go back to crossfire hurricane, Steve, when no one was punished for what happened there.
00:51:06.200It was a big green light to Chris Ray and the FBI and agents and offices across the country that this is the way that this agency should and could be weaponized.
00:51:15.260And look, I've explained to people, and it's in my book, when the first war on terror started to fall apart and dissipate, you had this huge apparatus, very costly employees, you know, tens of thousands of people involved in the military.
00:51:28.320You can't just all of a sudden say, well, we won, so we're going to shut this down.
00:51:33.540They needed a way to redirect all of that authority, all of those resources, the money, the people involved.
00:51:40.260So then what happens, Christopher Wray makes up this story in 2019 that domestic violent extremists, i.e. Trump supporters, pose as big of a threat as foreign terror cells like ISIS and al-Qaeda.
00:52:46.800You know what I learned when I was covering the trial, the federal trial for the Whitmer Fednapping hoax?
00:52:51.700Dan Chappell told his FBI handler that all these armed protesters were outside the building.
00:52:58.020The FBI told the Michigan State Police to stand down, let the protesters, some of whom were armed, because that's allowed in Michigan, into the building.
00:53:07.700Photographers and reporters inside capturing the very same images and optics we would see eight months later.
00:53:14.020So in many regard, in many aspects, and Darren Beattie has covered this too, was a dress rehearsal for January 6th.
00:53:21.480Same players, same playbook, same pattern.
00:53:25.000So I think without Whitmer as the backdrop, it would be hard to really believe, to your point, and the right to believe that the law enforcement community was capable of doing it.
00:53:54.200For War Room veterans, you know we have been all over this supply chain issue with China and medications and the active pharmaceutical ingredients.
00:54:14.660China has a stranglehold on us where there's a way to break that.
00:54:19.640I got an emergency medication kit from them.
00:54:22.140The FDA just declared a global shortage of medication and warned that critical antibiotics are in extreme short supply across the United States.
00:54:30.680But you know that because you're a viewer or listener of this show.
00:54:35.560Now here's the action you can take to correct.
00:54:38.540Do yourself and your family a favor and get your Jace case right now.
00:54:42.840It's a pack of five prescription antibiotics you'll have on hand for common emergencies.
00:54:54.680Take a few minutes and fill out the form.
00:54:57.080Your information will be reviewed by a board-certified physician and your medication will be dispensed by a licensed pharmacy at a fraction of the regular cost.
00:55:07.800You'll be glad you have the Jace case.