Bannon's War Room - March 30, 2024


Episode 3501： A WarRoom Easter Special： Descent into Hell


Episode Stats

Length

55 minutes

Words per Minute

151.55977

Word Count

8,337

Sentence Count

433

Misogynist Sentences

4

Hate Speech Sentences

20


Summary


Transcript

00:00:00.000 THE END
00:00:30.000 It's Saturday, 30, March in the year of our Lord, 2024.
00:00:39.980 It is Holy Saturday.
00:00:41.800 We're very honored and blessed to be joined by Dr. Taylor Marshall.
00:00:46.140 Dr. Marshall, just to put it in perspective,
00:00:49.140 we refer to this particularly Catholics as Holy Saturday.
00:00:52.020 Can you walk us through just the evolution of what,
00:00:55.220 at least in the Catholic faith,
00:00:56.840 from Good Friday into Holy Saturday?
00:01:01.020 And why is this such a day of solemnity?
00:01:04.620 So in the Catholic Church and also in the Eastern Orthodox Church
00:01:08.120 and many Protestants as well,
00:01:09.680 they recognize that, of course,
00:01:11.680 our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ died at 3 p.m. on Good Friday,
00:01:14.800 and he rose again early on Easter morning.
00:01:17.860 And there's this mystery on Saturday.
00:01:21.540 Where was our Lord Jesus Christ, fully God, fully man,
00:01:24.880 during this period in the middle of these three days?
00:01:29.060 And tradition identifies this as the harrowing of hell.
00:01:32.720 And the tradition is, and St. Paul teaches this in Ephesians,
00:01:35.560 Peter mentions it in the book of Acts,
00:01:36.940 that Christ in his soul, his body was in the tomb,
00:01:40.120 but his soul descended downward into the nether regions.
00:01:46.660 And in Hebrew, it's called Sheol.
00:01:50.000 Certain traditions call it limbo,
00:01:51.900 or maybe in the Greek, Hades, the Infernum.
00:01:55.000 And he didn't go there to suffer.
00:01:56.440 He went there to greet and recognize and redeem
00:02:01.000 all the holy men and women from Adam and Eve
00:02:04.800 all the way up until the good thief on the cross.
00:02:07.840 And he announces his proclamation of eternal life
00:02:12.360 to those who have been waiting.
00:02:14.900 Because it's the belief of both the Old Testament,
00:02:17.540 Jewish people and Christians for most of the past 2,000 years,
00:02:21.400 that until Christ died on the cross,
00:02:24.060 the righteous people like Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Esther,
00:02:27.760 all these people were waiting.
00:02:31.280 What do we get the phrase, waiting in limbo?
00:02:32.700 They were literally waiting in limbo, waiting in Sheol.
00:02:36.000 And Christ descends victorious.
00:02:38.820 And he announces the gospel and he brings them up.
00:02:43.540 So Saturday is the day, it's a quiet day in the liturgy,
00:02:49.300 but it's the day in which we recognize the redemption
00:02:53.260 of all those who came before Christ, the harrowing of hell.
00:02:57.760 What is, is this what St. Augustine refers to?
00:03:04.100 When St. Augustine one time has a quote,
00:03:05.960 I think he says, a thousand years before Christ came,
00:03:08.820 there was actual Christianity.
00:03:10.160 Is that what he means?
00:03:11.380 That there were people that were living,
00:03:13.360 that didn't know Christ or were born centuries before,
00:03:19.300 you know, millennia before Jesus manifested into our world?
00:03:26.100 What he's talking about, that men and women who were holy and devout,
00:03:32.220 but didn't obviously know about Jesus because he hadn't been born yet.
00:03:36.000 Is that, was that what he's referring to?
00:03:37.980 Is that why Christ went to hell or at least a part where people are not totally condemned
00:03:44.740 to bring back those pagans that live Christian lives?
00:03:48.640 Yeah, that's the idea is that before Christ, people were saved by expecting the Messiah,
00:03:58.500 by expecting the son of God.
00:03:59.720 So you see this already in the book of Genesis,
00:04:01.460 after Adam and Eve sin in Genesis chapter three, verse 15,
00:04:05.740 God promises what's called the proto evangelion.
00:04:08.480 That's a Greek word.
00:04:09.560 It means the first gospel.
00:04:10.760 And he tells to Adam and Eve, in particular to Eve,
00:04:14.100 that one day she will give birth to a child that will crush the head of Satan.
00:04:19.420 That's Genesis 3, 15.
00:04:21.320 So Adam and Eve heard that from God.
00:04:24.800 Did they know the details of his name would be Jesus Christ,
00:04:28.460 born of a virgin, suffer under Pontius Pilate?
00:04:30.880 They did not have those details,
00:04:32.500 but they did trust in the promise of God that one day a woman would give birth to a son,
00:04:40.020 the son of God, a Messiah figure who would indeed crush the serpent's head.
00:04:44.480 So they were trusting that.
00:04:45.780 And as time goes on in the Old Testament,
00:04:48.380 you have the covenant with Adam and the covenant with Noah and the covenant with Abraham
00:04:52.180 and then the covenant with Moses and then the covenant with David.
00:04:55.460 All of these are more and more revelations of the coming of the Messiah.
00:05:00.480 Yeah, more and more information is given.
00:05:02.540 And those people who are living in accordance with God's law
00:05:05.760 and they're having faith in the coming Messiah,
00:05:09.880 those people are justified by faith in Christ.
00:05:15.160 Again, they don't have the details.
00:05:16.580 So a good way of understanding it is, you know, Abraham and King David and Esther,
00:05:21.000 they were looking forward to Christ.
00:05:24.820 We today look back to Jesus Christ.
00:05:28.560 The object of our faith is the same.
00:05:31.600 It's Jesus Christ.
00:05:33.280 But we understand it in vivid color and full color.
00:05:36.740 They kind of understood it in black and white.
00:05:39.280 And so Christ, our belief is in the Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church
00:05:43.580 and many Protestants as well, that when Christ died on the cross,
00:05:46.720 he descended into hell.
00:05:48.840 He descended into not the place of torment, but the place of waiting.
00:05:53.020 Limbo, limbo.
00:05:53.800 And he announced to them, come to me.
00:05:57.860 You are saved.
00:05:59.020 Come with me.
00:05:59.600 And then he takes them to heaven.
00:06:01.140 And this is symbolized in the Gospels.
00:06:03.260 When Christ dies on the cross, the veil in the Jewish temple in Jerusalem was torn.
00:06:08.820 And there's an important detail there.
00:06:10.540 It was torn from top to bottom.
00:06:13.100 And that signifies that God removed the veil from top to bottom.
00:06:18.000 And this is symbolic that there's no longer a barrier between God and men
00:06:22.540 because Christ has offered himself as the Passover lamb of God.
00:06:27.540 And so now moving forward, people can be admitted to heaven through Christ.
00:06:31.660 And then the people of the Old Testament are also admitted into heaven through Christ.
00:06:36.420 Like I said before, from Adam all the way to the thief on the cross are now incorporated into that heavenly bliss.
00:06:45.640 And so I guess instead there are Christians before Christ, that's exactly correct.
00:06:51.160 Not the way we understand Christianity today, but they were looking forward to the Messiah.
00:06:56.040 Christ means Messiah.
00:06:57.480 They were looking.
00:06:58.060 So in that sense, they are Christian.
00:07:01.240 They're sort of proto-Christian might be a better term.
00:07:03.900 Right.
00:07:06.940 When Mel Gibson and Steve McAvity and the team made Passion of the Christ,
00:07:11.320 they went back to the book that had come out by Catherine Ann Emmerich, right,
00:07:18.400 the German nun that had these visions.
00:07:20.760 And that had actually gone through, I guess, a paper review and had the stamp of,
00:07:26.780 simply put, certification, right, that this had been gone through a, not a council,
00:07:32.320 but gone through a formal investigation.
00:07:35.720 In that, and they're coming up with the second, they've been working on the second,
00:07:39.780 the sequel to that, which is about the resurrection.
00:07:43.480 And my understanding is they're also relying upon Catherine Ann Emmerich's book,
00:07:48.040 which has a quite moving and dramatic part in her visions of Christ's descent into hell.
00:07:56.540 Is there anything, are you familiar with the work of sister Catherine Ann Emmerich?
00:08:02.840 I am, yes.
00:08:03.800 And I was able to talk to Mel Gibson about this,
00:08:06.200 and he doesn't want any of the details of the film, of course, being shared,
00:08:10.240 but he's announced that he is going to do the resurrection of the Christ,
00:08:13.740 and it's going to also incorporate this mystery of the harrowing of hell,
00:08:17.760 which I think on the big screen is going to be magnificent when it's accomplished.
00:08:22.340 And yes, the vision of Anne Catherine Emmerich, she was a German nun, a consecrated version,
00:08:28.720 and she had extensive visions about the entire life of Christ,
00:08:32.320 but also this mystery of the descent of Christ into hell.
00:08:36.440 And she gives the same basic outline or structure that you see in the early Greek church fathers,
00:08:44.120 the early Latin church fathers, and that is Christ coming down,
00:08:48.080 and he smashes the gates of hell.
00:08:50.760 He breaks down the gates of hell, and many of the early icons,
00:08:55.120 there's an image of Christ standing on top of the broken gates of hell,
00:08:58.780 and he's reaching his hand out, and he's grabbing the hands of Adam and Eve
00:09:02.980 and pulling them out and upward into heaven.
00:09:07.120 It's a very beautiful image to see that mankind,
00:09:10.900 all the way back to Adam and Eve, is being offered eternal salvation.
00:09:14.440 And Anne Catherine Emmerich has that same vision,
00:09:16.840 and she reveals that the faithful of the Old Testament,
00:09:21.340 men and women, are now being incorporated.
00:09:24.160 In fact, St. Thomas Aquinas, he even elaborates on this,
00:09:27.160 and he says that the experience of the Old Testament faithful,
00:09:31.200 of Christ ascending into hell,
00:09:33.260 counts for them as baptism,
00:09:35.480 which is a very kind of profound way of thinking about it,
00:09:38.000 that their initiation into the life of Christ and salvation for them
00:09:42.220 begins not with baptism,
00:09:44.780 but basically engaging with the true Christ in his descent to where they were
00:09:51.020 and then freeing them.
00:09:51.940 So there's a lot in the mystical tradition and visionaries
00:09:55.820 and the church fathers of this beautiful mystery.
00:09:58.180 And I would encourage people on this day,
00:10:00.460 you know, yesterday was Good Friday,
00:10:01.860 we experienced the death of Christ.
00:10:03.460 Tomorrow is the celebration when people will be breaking their Lent
00:10:07.400 and eating meat and candy and maybe wine and some whiskey
00:10:11.380 and really enjoying the festival of the resurrection of Christ.
00:10:15.620 Today is a day to consider this hidden mystery
00:10:19.900 that Christ cares not just for us in 2024,
00:10:24.440 but he cares for every human person going all the way back
00:10:28.240 to our original first parents.
00:10:30.740 And I think that's a beautiful mystery for us to meditate on today.
00:10:36.700 From Holy Saturday to Good Friday,
00:10:39.660 Holy Thursday, Good Friday, Holy Saturday, and then Easter.
00:10:43.400 Can you walk us through the early church?
00:10:45.020 How was it commemorated?
00:10:47.100 How was it remembered?
00:10:51.780 And what were the ceremonies or rituals
00:10:56.020 they went through over that kind of four-day period?
00:10:58.240 You know, I wasn't raised a Catholic,
00:11:02.440 and so I didn't grow up with any of these liturgies
00:11:05.420 or mysteries or ceremonies.
00:11:07.260 But as an adult, when I became a Catholic,
00:11:09.300 I was exposed to this ancient, very ancient liturgy
00:11:13.940 of what's called Holy Week.
00:11:15.660 And Holy Week technically begins on Palm Sunday,
00:11:17.800 and that's when we commemorate Christ coming into Jerusalem.
00:11:20.280 And literally the priest will bless palms,
00:11:23.180 and the congregation holds palms
00:11:25.200 and processes around the church and enters the church,
00:11:28.220 sort of greeting Christ, coming into our midst.
00:11:30.880 And then things pick up again on Thursday,
00:11:33.100 called Holy Thursday or Maundy Thursday.
00:11:35.480 And this liturgy usually takes place in the evening,
00:11:38.280 and it commemorates the Last Supper
00:11:40.200 and the washing,
00:11:42.040 Jesus washing the feet of the disciples
00:11:44.440 and the institution of the Holy Eucharist.
00:11:46.860 So it's a very solemn, very beautiful liturgy.
00:11:49.800 And then the next day is Good Friday,
00:11:53.200 and there is a service, a liturgy,
00:11:55.920 in which the cross of Jesus Christ,
00:11:59.080 which has been veiled previously, is now unveiled.
00:12:02.600 And there are some very beautiful prayers to Christ,
00:12:06.520 and the faithful come up to the front of the church
00:12:09.440 and kneel and kiss the cross.
00:12:12.260 And the deacon or the priest says,
00:12:16.540 you know, behold the wood of the cross.
00:12:19.280 You know, this is the sign of our salvation.
00:12:21.640 So what we're doing is we're reliving those key events
00:12:25.380 from the four canonical gospels,
00:12:27.400 Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.
00:12:29.220 Palm Sunday, the commemoration of the Passover
00:12:32.220 and the institution of the Eucharist.
00:12:33.580 Good Friday,
00:12:35.180 the recognition that Christ is on the cross,
00:12:38.600 and the cross is the pathway to our salvation.
00:12:42.980 Holy Saturday is the longest liturgy of the year.
00:12:45.780 It could be three, sometimes five hours,
00:12:48.620 some of the Greek liturgies.
00:12:50.060 And this is a very long ceremony
00:12:51.620 with lots and lots of Old Testament readings
00:12:54.040 reminding us that Christ is descending
00:12:56.180 to the people of the Old Testament.
00:12:57.900 And usually at the end of that liturgy,
00:12:59.780 towards the end,
00:13:00.800 was the baptism of new Christians.
00:13:03.060 In the early church,
00:13:04.140 they would go through all of Lent
00:13:05.740 and what's called catechesis.
00:13:07.420 They'd be catechumens.
00:13:08.980 And then on that evening,
00:13:11.580 on Saturday evening,
00:13:12.620 after this long liturgy and fasting,
00:13:15.280 they would be baptized.
00:13:16.580 And then Sunday morning,
00:13:18.060 wake up early.
00:13:19.060 It's the resurrection of Christ.
00:13:21.020 And of course,
00:13:21.640 the faithful have been fasting
00:13:22.960 and doing penance
00:13:24.040 and avoiding certain foods.
00:13:26.100 Finally, on Easter Sunday,
00:13:27.500 it's just, you know,
00:13:29.020 it is the highest and holiest day
00:13:31.620 for Christians.
00:13:32.560 And it's marked by family,
00:13:34.680 feasting, prayer, hymns, liturgy,
00:13:38.620 of course, the Holy Sacrifice,
00:13:40.060 the Mass, the Eucharist.
00:13:41.740 And so it's the most intense
00:13:43.120 part of the whole year
00:13:45.380 for Orthodox, Catholic,
00:13:48.260 many Protestants.
00:13:49.840 And it's hard.
00:13:51.520 You're supposed to,
00:13:52.360 Holy Week is supposed to be difficult.
00:13:53.660 There's lots of fasting,
00:13:54.500 long services,
00:13:55.500 but it ends in joy
00:13:57.660 that lasts for, again,
00:13:59.120 another whole week.
00:13:59.820 Dr. Taylor Marshall,
00:14:04.500 if you can hang on with us,
00:14:05.800 we're going to take
00:14:06.140 a short commercial break
00:14:07.500 and we're going to return
00:14:08.620 with Dr. Taylor Marshall.
00:14:09.920 It is our annual
00:14:11.940 Holy Saturday show,
00:14:16.520 Descent into Hell.
00:14:17.740 Short commercial break.
00:14:18.860 Dr. Taylor Marshall
00:14:19.680 on the other side.
00:14:20.340 CHOIR CONTINUES
00:14:28.340 CHOIR CONTINUES
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00:16:06.160 okay welcome back uh to our special descent into hell um we do this every holy saturday dr taylor marshall
00:16:20.700 is with us i'm gonna have an interview with dr tom williams later in the show we'll get into that
00:16:25.900 i'll tee it up uh dr uh taylor marshall what lessons can we derive as as uh christians as catholics
00:16:34.500 uh in the uh in this veil of tears from the harrowing of of hell what what are we to take from that
00:16:40.820 yeah i think if you if you consider that for all those centuries which is the teaching the harrowing
00:16:48.760 of hell that you know someone like king david or you know isaiah the prophet or jeremiah these these
00:16:56.260 great men of faith these prophets esther they were waiting uh for the coming of the messiah this is a
00:17:04.880 long time i don't know how time works in the afterlife that's a mystery you know i don't know if they
00:17:09.980 experienced it you know as centuries or how that happened but you know we living now in 2024
00:17:16.760 we we also are in as you just said we're in a valley of tears you know many of us are dealing
00:17:23.940 with loss of employment or cancer or broken relationships and addictions and problems and
00:17:31.720 all these things and i think the important thing is that christ pierced into the darkness
00:17:37.660 christ descended into hell and he forgets none of us and no matter how dark things are getting for you
00:17:47.260 and and how difficult things are in this valley of tears i mean we not we're not literally in hell but
00:17:53.120 sometimes it can feel like that the lord jesus christ dies on the cross and he seeks for those that
00:18:01.380 are lost and he is the fountain of all mercy uh he loves for he loves us and he pleads with us to come
00:18:08.280 unto him and to cast our cares cast our burdens onto him so this is a time of year i think a lot of
00:18:14.620 people sometimes they stop going to church or they kind of fall out of practice and then the easter time
00:18:18.820 like oh i need to go get back into it but i think this is a great opportunity on holy saturday to
00:18:24.920 recommit and say you know what i am going to get to mass tomorrow i am going to go to church
00:18:28.840 um i do want to live for christ he loves me and really the cure for all of our societal problems
00:18:35.260 and our personal problems whether they're physical mental spiritual and all the way up to you know
00:18:42.420 communism and socialism that's you know creeping in on our society the only true answer for that
00:18:48.140 is the way the truth and the life and jesus says i am the way the truth and the life and in john
00:18:55.800 beginning of john's gospel he is the light in the darkness so i would just share with everyone
00:19:01.140 watching return to christ to find christ to go to church on sunday yes i know there's hypocrites
00:19:07.740 there's problems in the church but reconnect with christ and i think this weekend good friday holy
00:19:13.660 saturday resurrection sunday the pascal mystery is the right time to reach out and embrace christ and
00:19:21.460 find that that healing and that redemption so i think this this is really the lesson for us and
00:19:27.120 he stands before us and he says knock and it shall be open to you so knock
00:19:31.340 um where we are in this country in the world obviously we talk all the time about this is
00:19:40.720 spiritual warfare right and there's really no compromise uh with the uh the the side of darkness
00:19:47.100 now they've thrown up this this uh phrase christian nationalism like they're trying to get
00:19:51.740 they're trying to intimidate christians to stay out of the public square they're trying to
00:19:55.780 intimidate christians from actually being part of a movement that wants to take its country back
00:20:01.200 what are your thoughts about all this you know the holy looks a great time to reflect on this because
00:20:07.980 in a way judas iscariot and many of the people of his time were demanding for jesus christ our lord
00:20:15.400 and savior to initiate a political movement that would overthrow the romans and of course our lord
00:20:22.660 and savior jesus christ wanted something much more significant than that and so i think we got to be
00:20:29.280 careful that we we don't throw in our lot with that understanding of jesus christ that being said when
00:20:35.580 he rose again from the dead and all 12 apostles taught that he is the messiah and that christ is king
00:20:42.000 he is the lord of lords and the king of kings and so there is a social dimension and there's a
00:20:47.920 political dimension to christianity there always has been and there always will be when we say jesus
00:20:55.080 is the king of kings over and over in the bible that entails that there are other kings worldly kings
00:21:01.300 there are temporal princes you could say premiers presidents prime ministers and that his lordship
00:21:08.220 extends over that as well the christian nationalist movement i'm always a little careful about it
00:21:14.560 because there's people in all different parts of that spectrum of what it means to be a christian
00:21:20.100 nationalist i think it's safe to say that in the christian tradition in the catholic tradition at least
00:21:25.340 there's been a integration between the church and the state and that hasn't always been negative and
00:21:34.660 there's great positive elements to that and i don't think we should be afraid of that we've already
00:21:40.500 learned that a strict separation of church and state just gives complete power to the secularist
00:21:48.060 atheist communist marxist so there needs to be a better balance a better integration there and i think
00:21:55.220 that's a conversation that more and more people are having kind of seen the last week steve you know
00:21:59.020 this huge fight on on social media over you know is it wrong to say christ is king uh that people find
00:22:05.680 find this to be offensive in some way and it shouldn't be at all uh this is a core fundamental
00:22:11.600 central belief of christianity and it does have political and social implications so i think my short
00:22:18.640 answer on that steve is i'm a little bit concerned about the term christian nationalism because of all the
00:22:25.240 different uh versions of it but i'm of course not at all opposed with the historic christian or catholic
00:22:32.680 understanding that there can be a a proper healthy integration of christian moral teaching with the
00:22:38.860 state how did and i don't keep up with all the different you know aspects although we did talk about
00:22:45.640 this early in the week it did come up this the christ how did christ as king become controversial i remember
00:22:52.580 as a a child in in in catholic school you know christ was king of kings christ is king i think
00:22:59.160 heck half of the half of the third of the catholic schools had some sort of either place in the front
00:23:06.440 of the school or they had some aspect of a bunch i think a lot some of the schools we play i think is
00:23:11.780 elementary school when i was at saint paul's where i went to elementary school or catholic grammar school
00:23:16.760 what was called uh i think christ christ the king was uh was one of the teams we played from down at
00:23:23.100 tidewater i think it was how did that in your mind get to be controversial it's something that's
00:23:28.100 the catholic at least the catholic church i'm not so sure about the process but the catholic church
00:23:32.200 has used that phrase for since i've been around for you know 70 years yeah i think the i think the
00:23:39.960 phrase christ is king has been around since the year 33 it's it's old it's ancient christians have
00:23:45.380 always believed it but what we've seen steven your audience knows this is you know over the last 50
00:23:51.440 years that the fact that any christian would say something in public or pray in public or quote
00:24:00.140 scripture or that a politician would make reference to their christian faith is offensive we're told you
00:24:07.460 keep your your your christianity your prayers your bible verses you keep them at home locked away in the
00:24:14.780 safe you know it's kind of like you have to be a closeted christian and in christianity if you want
00:24:19.300 to believe that at home it's fine but don't bring it into the workplace movies television politics and
00:24:28.840 so i think the fact that christians are on social media saying christ is king it's it's bringing about
00:24:36.780 a response from the secular side that's offensive to them they're like you can't say that and i think
00:24:43.720 it's just part of the social conditioning and christians are starting to realize that by saying
00:24:48.600 christ is king that there's nothing wrong with it but by saying it somehow they're going to be
00:24:55.220 canceled for it and so i think that's why this small phrase christ is king has become so controversial
00:25:01.860 because the left doesn't want to allow us to even say that out loud in public in a tweet i mean it's an
00:25:11.560 indication of where we are as a culture a decaying culture
00:25:15.540 uh how do people i know you're combating that every day with your shows your podcast
00:25:22.520 uh your writings where do people go to get access to all of it
00:25:26.820 uh they can find me at dr taylor marshall on rumble youtube or you can just put in taylormarshall.com
00:25:34.060 and you can find my books and blog and website and all that
00:25:37.160 how have you not been uh how have you not been canceled off youtube it's shocking i can see rumble
00:25:45.920 but uh well steve you're you're you're very bold as well um i i'm still hanging in there
00:25:51.060 yeah and um i'm still saying christ is king and and touching on a lot of these issues but for some
00:25:56.880 reason i've been spared so far but i'm on rumble as well rumble's a great place to be
00:26:02.180 rumble's a great place we're up there dr taylor marshall thank you so much and thank you for
00:26:08.160 spending another time happy easter crisis crisis king thank you thank you sir boy how'd that become
00:26:16.400 controversial like i said i think i think a bunch of the schools we played when i was a kid was
00:26:22.060 christ is king or christ the king um we're going to take a short commercial break here in a moment
00:26:28.080 we want to make sure that everybody uh uh we really want to thank the audience on a uh on holy
00:26:34.060 saturday to to come to the worm but we always try to do people have been with the show for the last
00:26:39.500 couple years we always try to do a special on saturday to to um really think about what happened
00:26:47.480 between the crucifixion that you know according to the our faith christ died at approximately 3 p.m
00:26:53.140 on friday and what happened until dawn on uh on sunday and that's where every year we spend time
00:26:59.280 with on um on holy saturday discussing this dr tom williams i did an interview with dr tom williams i'm
00:27:05.860 going to replay parts of it because quite frankly it was so powerful and particularly about persecution
00:27:11.140 of christians in the modern world which is a um a topic that does not get enough coverage we're
00:27:18.820 going to be back in a moment i really want to thank birch gold for their sponsorship
00:27:22.800 particularly of our saturday show birchgold.com slash war room excuse me slash bannon maybe not
00:27:30.800 this weekend but on easter monday pick it up make sure you drill down to find out why it's been a hedge
00:27:37.040 against times of turbulence and turbulent times we're in folks short commercial break back in
00:27:42.340 the war room with our holy saturday special in just a moment
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00:29:27.260 CHOIR SINGS
00:29:57.260 Okay, welcome back.
00:30:04.820 We have, for those of you that are watching Unreal America's Voice or Rumble,
00:30:09.380 or any of our streaming services or channels,
00:30:11.740 you can see we have the classic picture of Christ and his descent into hell.
00:30:17.240 I realize some aspects of the Protestant, our Protestant brothers and sisters,
00:30:22.040 don't either adhere to this or have never been taught it.
00:30:24.580 It's a whole new revelation for some people.
00:30:27.260 But in the Catholic Church, there's a whole concept of this from the time that Christ died,
00:30:33.860 what actually happened until he rose.
00:30:37.700 And it gets to this issue of spiritual warfare.
00:30:42.240 You know, we have so many guests on here so many times that say,
00:30:47.100 hey, at the end of the day, everything we're fighting for,
00:30:48.900 everything that this revolves around is a spiritual war between good and evil and between the traditions of the Judeo-Christian West
00:30:58.520 and the Christian faith in this country as a new Jerusalem,
00:31:04.380 in the forces of darkness and the forces of evil.
00:31:06.680 Now, everybody doesn't believe that, and that's fine.
00:31:09.320 Everybody in this movement doesn't believe that, and that's fine.
00:31:11.340 Many, many people who support President Trump don't believe that.
00:31:14.040 They believe in President Trump and what he's done and more of the temporal side
00:31:18.240 and, you know, what he's doing, either deregulation or taking the ministry of state
00:31:22.280 or just being a leader, a strong leader that people can rally around.
00:31:26.920 And that's fine.
00:31:27.560 It's as long as you're, you know, the enemy of my enemy right now is my friend.
00:31:33.580 But there are those that have really, I think, thought this through to a very deep level
00:31:38.380 and understand that there's something going on here that's extraordinary.
00:31:41.380 And that's why I continue to say the the victory in 2016 was absolutely providential.
00:31:49.740 And I know that because I was there and I could see it.
00:31:53.980 I could see it unfold.
00:31:56.520 And we were there from the beginning, back in 14 and in February.
00:32:00.020 Actually, I met President Trump in 2010 when Dave Bossie and I had a meeting with him
00:32:04.820 when he was actually not thinking but wanted to understand what the process was
00:32:09.040 of running for a president, particularly running in a primary.
00:32:11.400 That was in 2010.
00:32:13.380 Not saying he was thinking about running in 2012, but he wanted to know the process.
00:32:17.360 And that's when I got to know him.
00:32:18.540 And then when I took over Breitbart, even a couple of years later,
00:32:22.320 after Andrew passed away, got to know President Trump even more so.
00:32:27.120 He started coming on the show, et cetera.
00:32:28.660 And our history of standing up for President Trump early on in 14 and particularly 15
00:32:34.000 against Fox News and the Murdochs and their instrument, Megyn Kelly,
00:32:41.780 has been documented, well documented by Megyn Kelly herself and other people at Fox.
00:32:46.780 But that victory in 2016 was definitely providential.
00:32:51.340 Hillary Clinton and what she represents is a force of darkness.
00:32:57.160 That was really the managed decline of our nation.
00:33:01.880 What happened in 2020, particularly because they saw what President Trump did while he was there.
00:33:06.800 And remember, the power of President Trump in this movement, he's not overly churchy.
00:33:13.000 If you know, he's not a particularly churchy guy, I think he has a very deep and abiding faith.
00:33:19.860 Now, the left just mocks and ridicules him all the time.
00:33:23.780 But his faith comes out in things that are important, very important.
00:33:28.680 And you see, no one that didn't have a deep and abiding faith could have the courage he has.
00:33:34.960 And he has moral courage.
00:33:36.940 He's had every opportunity to walk away from all this and not to be destroyed.
00:33:40.080 Remember this weekend, we're hearing Peter Navarro is in prison.
00:33:45.260 John the Baptist was in prison.
00:33:46.900 Well, Peter Navarro is in prison.
00:33:49.120 In fact, Jesus Christ himself for a number of hours was in prison by the Roman authorities.
00:33:55.380 Peter Navarro is in prison.
00:33:56.400 I want you to think about that.
00:33:57.220 Over Easter, Peter Navarro, a decent and honest man, is in prison.
00:34:01.760 It's in prison.
00:34:03.320 In prison by Nancy Pelosi and Merrick Garland.
00:34:06.720 In prison, I would say pretty good forces of darkness, right?
00:34:10.580 Pretty definable.
00:34:12.500 So at the end of the day, I see this as a I see this and I've always seen this as a spiritual conflict because I saw it up front, up close and personal.
00:34:20.460 And I will tell you that the.
00:34:24.260 Steel in 2020 was also providential.
00:34:26.940 The victory in 16 was providential.
00:34:28.640 So was the steel, because that was to show us that this was just no longer managed to climb by the elites.
00:34:34.440 This was something far darker, far more urgent that they were trying to understand the power that President Trump had seen in the populist movement, the nationalist movement to kind of break these globalists and to break these elites.
00:34:47.140 They pulled out every stop in the summer of love of 2020, all the way through the stealing of the election, the transition integrity project, all of it.
00:34:57.740 Then the whole thing.
00:34:58.720 And when they first took over the debanking, the deplatforming, all of it, putting up signs like the Stasi back in Eastern Europe.
00:35:05.240 If you see anything in your neighbors, identify it.
00:35:07.980 You were there.
00:35:08.680 You know.
00:35:09.040 That's just not normal American politics.
00:35:12.040 People know.
00:35:12.660 And if you talk to them, even people that don't agree with President Trump, people who don't like President Trump, people are not particularly drawn to MAGA.
00:35:21.400 People who don't like the deplorables are America first.
00:35:23.860 People, quite frankly, think MAGA is a little kooky or even dangerous or could be dangerous.
00:35:30.080 They understand that something's deeply wrong.
00:35:32.840 The country's on a deeply wrong path, deeply wrong, not kind of wrong, not on the margins.
00:35:38.860 And that took the steal in 2020 to expose to people because they did it so rapidly, so in your face.
00:35:48.580 And so much of it, so much of it targeting the American family, so much of it and the children.
00:35:56.420 And what they've asked for and what they want to redefine society is so repellent to people that believe in the tenets of our civilization, the Judeo-Christian West.
00:36:07.660 And they don't have to be churchy or part of an active, organized faith or religion to believe that.
00:36:16.440 And that is the power of this moment because we've come back ascended.
00:36:24.360 And that's really because of, I think, a tremendous amount of prayer and sacrifice from the most religious people, deeply religious people in our movement.
00:36:34.600 One thing I can tell you, I don't go to any of these public events or any of these talks or speeches or the CPACs or the Mike Lindell's or all these other conferences I go to, that a, I won't say vast, but a good portion of the audience, more than the majority, almost two-thirds, are there deeply religious.
00:36:57.140 And they're not particularly wealthy in the material world.
00:37:01.540 They're not the people hanging out in East Hampton or hanging out in Miami Beach or hanging out in Beverly Hills or Holmby Hills or Pacific Heights up in the Bay Area because that's not necessary.
00:37:18.920 It's the strength of your faith and connecting that faith to your country's betterment.
00:37:28.140 And right now, that betterment is the first to save her than to help turn it around.
00:37:34.960 And in believing in the reason you're doing that, because you're part of something bigger.
00:37:41.060 And part of that something bigger is you've been blessed to be born in this time, in this place, in this republic, the new Jerusalem.
00:37:47.420 And if that makes you a Christian nationalist, so be it.
00:37:53.660 That's their problem, not yours.
00:37:55.940 They're completely freaked out about this now.
00:37:57.920 They're completely meltdown.
00:37:59.100 When you see the thing they're most worried about, they're most worried about, and they can't figure it out, and they don't want to admit it's because you're a religious faith.
00:38:08.600 This is the key point.
00:38:09.740 They understand that the Trump movement did not go away.
00:38:13.920 They understand that this just didn't evaporate.
00:38:18.500 And now they understand that what President Trump has done in his leadership is built a movement that will surpass him and live well past him and grow.
00:38:28.480 And that in growing, we will take back the country and we will make America great again.
00:38:33.860 Back to her finest days.
00:38:36.600 That is what they hate, because they thought they had you crushed.
00:38:42.360 And they thought you had you crushed because they only look at the material side of the calculation.
00:38:47.280 They said these people have no money.
00:38:49.440 These people have no control of no institutions, no earthly institutions.
00:38:54.040 They don't control the universities.
00:38:55.660 They don't control the culture, either high culture or pop culture.
00:38:59.940 They don't control technology.
00:39:01.960 They don't control the corporations.
00:39:03.980 They don't control the arts or media.
00:39:06.600 They don't control social media.
00:39:08.820 They don't control Wall Street.
00:39:10.140 They don't control any of the major institutions in the country, political institutions, military institutions.
00:39:16.840 They don't control it.
00:39:18.640 Therefore, they have no power.
00:39:20.180 So, on this Holy Saturday, you have to think about Christ's resurrection, but also the resurrection as it was manifested to people who believe in Christ in the temporal world here.
00:39:36.200 How did that happen?
00:39:37.640 How did that happen?
00:39:40.160 Against all odds.
00:39:41.500 One of the reasons that our opposition, these demonic forces are so dangerous right now is they can't figure this out.
00:39:50.640 And that means they will go to extreme measures.
00:39:56.880 Yep.
00:39:57.480 They will go to extreme measures.
00:39:59.740 And that's what we have to be on watch for.
00:40:01.640 It just didn't happen that one of their top public intellectuals, Robert Kagan, wrote in one of their top news platforms, the Jeff Bezos, Amazon, Washington Post.
00:40:15.420 That is, as the New York Times, the paper of record of our nation.
00:40:19.780 The Washington Post feels it's the paper of record of all of all politics.
00:40:23.300 So, when you're in the editorial page there, and I think particularly on a Sunday, that's the big league.
00:40:28.940 He's the one that wrote the essay about the justification of Brutus' assassination of Caesar and that Trump was a new Caesar.
00:40:40.940 And you take whatever, you take the, you can extrapolate from that where he was going.
00:40:46.880 That is why this weekend is so important for us to kind of collect ourselves and think about the basic deepest tenets of our faith.
00:40:56.120 But also, starting on Monday, how do you take those tenets of your faith and gird it with that power, gird it with that belief?
00:41:05.200 How do you translate that into your public life?
00:41:07.780 Now, I realize there's some, and I'm not saying they're wrong.
00:41:10.880 There's some that just say, I don't, I don't want to get into the public square.
00:41:14.260 I don't want to be part of any of this.
00:41:15.860 I just want to live my life, and I want to live it as close to the precepts of Christ as I can and do whatever I can do out in the real world.
00:41:24.380 That's fine.
00:41:25.640 That's fine.
00:41:26.260 It's all an individual choice.
00:41:27.560 You have free will.
00:41:28.920 You have to make that determination yourself.
00:41:30.680 But if you made that determination that my faith is connected to what I do in the, in the material world, that I will be held accountable for this.
00:41:45.480 And I understand because I've been blessed to be in this time.
00:41:48.200 Then this is the time that God in his infinite wisdom decided you were put here for.
00:41:57.800 And this fight is going to be a fight at the end of the day is a spiritual fight.
00:42:05.180 And the winners will be those that don't quit.
00:42:07.960 That's what's going to happen.
00:42:09.260 There's can't be a compromise.
00:42:10.720 The breach, the gap is too big to compromise in this.
00:42:13.280 It's too, it's not even close.
00:42:14.460 Can't compromise.
00:42:15.440 There's nothing to compromise about.
00:42:17.160 It's either we are victorious or they are victorious.
00:42:23.760 Over this weekend, that is what I think, I think, would be quite helpful for you to contemplate.
00:42:32.660 What does it all mean?
00:42:33.880 And what does it all mean when it comes down to your life?
00:42:36.000 And why has divine providence chosen for you to be here in this time and place?
00:42:43.040 Short commercial break.
00:42:44.040 Back in the warm in a moment.
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00:44:51.020 Okay, welcome back.
00:45:07.800 Welcome back.
00:45:08.600 We are going to, when we come back at the top of the hour, I'm going to go about an interview I did with Tom Williams.
00:45:18.040 It's so good and so powerful.
00:45:20.540 Particularly, it ties in two things.
00:45:22.000 It ties in one, Holy Saturday, the descent into hell, the meaning of it for the Christian message or Christ message to Christians.
00:45:30.420 Also, about persecution of Christians is one of the things I don't think we spend enough time on the show about.
00:45:36.460 I would love to spend more time on it, and I always commit that I'm going to spend more time on it.
00:45:40.520 We just never get, with the press of everything else, we just never get to it.
00:45:44.240 But Tom Williams wrote an amazing book about it, and he's also an expert.
00:45:48.680 Dr. Williams is the bureau chief.
00:45:52.660 I think he might have stepped down here recently just to be a writer, but he used to run the Rome branch.
00:45:58.720 I had Breitbart London with Raheem, Breitbart Jerusalem with Aaron Klein, and Breitbart Rome with Tom Williams.
00:46:05.980 And these guys were absolutely amazing and just set up a great international group that was very effective.
00:46:14.700 So in the next hour, we'll do that, and then I'll come back and give, I've got a lot of closing commentary about this weekend, about where we go from here.
00:46:21.880 But look, you just have to understand with controlling these, after the long march of the institutions, the controlling of these institutions, particularly the political institutions, the cultural institutions, the societal institutions, and the financial and then corporate and then the economic institutions.
00:46:42.620 If you step back and think about it, the probability that a movement that's counter to that and trying to go back to the old traditions that made this republic great and made this republic distinct and made this republic a nation that brought more freedom to more people than any other country in the history of the earth.
00:47:06.320 And created more wealth, more wealth, not for the wealthy, but created more wealth, the hands of the working class and middle class for them.
00:47:17.540 No middle class on earth and no even working class on earth have had the wealth creation, the benefits.
00:47:26.260 So this nation is worth fighting for.
00:47:28.300 And at the end of the day, that's why it is.
00:47:29.660 It is a spiritual war of that.
00:47:32.680 I'm absolutely convinced and quite strong in my convictions.
00:47:36.200 And it's going to take people that I think deeply believe in that.
00:47:42.480 And here's why, because those people are not going to be sunshine soldiers or summer patriots or sunshine patriots and summer soldiers, which I think is the correct version.
00:47:54.140 They're not.
00:47:55.680 They're going to be all in and they're going to be all in because the most important thing, the core, their core spiritual being, the center of their, of their, their being.
00:48:05.620 Remember the ancients, your being attracts your life.
00:48:11.980 Your being attracts your life.
00:48:15.200 That the core to your being is in this fight.
00:48:19.500 And that's the point I hammer over and over again.
00:48:22.300 We're not going to lose.
00:48:24.400 We're not going to lose.
00:48:26.640 We've come so far and had so many incredible victories against all odds.
00:48:31.340 Why is that?
00:48:32.060 Because this movement channels, that spirituality channels, that belief and empowers people.
00:48:38.800 Most empowered people I've met, the people in most agency are people that have the least amount of money in this movement.
00:48:45.160 They are totally and completely dedicated.
00:48:47.160 They've dedicated, not just their lives.
00:48:49.580 They've dedicated their beings to this with that.
00:48:53.840 We can't be beaten.
00:48:55.400 If you can take that and spread that out to more and more people, if you can use that to be a force multiplier, it's incredible.
00:49:02.460 That's why this, this movement is unique.
00:49:05.740 Certainly in American political history.
00:49:07.520 And I think in all the world history, that's why it's so powerful.
00:49:12.620 That's why they hate Trump so much because they would sit there and go, Trump would be the least likely guy to basically help be a foundational member of this movement and be its leader.
00:49:23.920 They gave him an off-ramp.
00:49:32.080 They gave him an exit out.
00:49:35.920 They gave him that.
00:49:37.060 And he rejected it.
00:49:39.580 And in his rejecting it, got us to this place where we are.
00:49:44.740 That we can see the ability to take back the political apparatus or at least part of it and not do it in a way that's controlled opposition, but actually do it in a way that's going to have fundamental change in this country.
00:49:59.300 And I realize a lot of people say, well, Trump's got these banyards coming around now, but there's a certain practical side that you have to just consider and to get this, you know, to accomplish this.
00:50:09.640 He's still as pure of heart in this fight as one possibly can be given everything he's gone through.
00:50:17.840 Okay, I really want to thank the Birch Gold team for doing this.
00:50:20.640 They sponsor us all the time, but particularly the Saturday show.
00:50:24.420 One thing to do is they have provided, and it's one of our core beliefs here is to always make sure that we're putting all the information out for the worm for free.
00:50:35.320 No paywalls, no pay for the services.
00:50:37.420 Put it out for free and make it ubiquitous.
00:50:38.840 Try to get it to wherever you are, whether it's podcasts, whether it's radio, whether it's on the streaming services, Real America's Voice or Rumble, get it, use social media, everything to meet you where you are.
00:50:51.220 And it's our sponsors that help us do that.
00:50:53.980 And Birch Gold and, of course, the guys at MyPelo being Mike Lindell on the team, being the two of the best.
00:51:01.560 Make sure you please, and you don't have to buy.
00:51:04.500 Just go.
00:51:04.960 If you go, I think you'll make your own decision.
00:51:07.280 That's what everything we do on the sponsors is to make available to you these experts in these different vectors of different verticals.
00:51:15.280 Then you come to your own decision.
00:51:16.960 You're free men and free women.
00:51:18.140 That's what this movement's about, is to throw off the bonds of your captivity and make decisions as free men and free women.
00:51:26.020 In the greatest republic, greatest country, most powerful country, country's done more good than any nation not on earth in the history of the earth.
00:51:38.420 Okay, I'm going to come back, Dr. Tom Williams.
00:51:41.100 Then I'll come back after that, after a segment or two.
00:51:46.340 And we'll get into it again.
00:51:47.660 Here on Holy Saturday, in the War Room, back after a 90-second break.
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00:54:13.420 T-N-U-S-A dot com slash Bannon.
00:54:17.260 Make sure you take action on this today.
00:54:20.100 This IRS grind is only going to get much worse.
00:54:25.700 That's code WARROOM at checkout to save 67%.
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00:54:33.480 Go there today.
00:54:35.200 If you're going to be part of the posse, you need a strong heart.
00:54:38.220 You need a lion's heart.
00:54:39.980 How we're going to do that is with Salty.
00:54:42.360 Go there.
00:54:42.920 Do it today.
00:54:43.540 Check it out.
00:54:43.980 Go there today.
00:54:46.020 All right.
00:54:47.760 All right.
00:54:48.100 All right.
00:54:48.960 All right.
00:54:49.780 You all right.
00:54:50.620 All right.
00:54:50.700 Bye.
00:54:51.540 Bye.
00:54:52.820 All right.
00:54:55.060 Bye.
00:54:59.140 Bo optimizing for today.
00:55:00.200 Bye.