Bannon's War Room - Episode 3502： A WarRoom Easter Special： Descent into Hell Cont.

00:00:00.000 Satsang with Mooji 0.99

00:00:30.980 Okay, welcome. It is Holy Saturday, 8 April in the year of our Lord, 2023.

00:00:39.600 Welcome. We do this special every year, and we're very honored this year to have as our guest, Dr. Tom Williams.

00:00:47.960 Dr. Williams, before I get into it, you've written this book, and it's really, I want to spend a better part of the hour going through the argument in the book,

00:00:55.780 because I think it is of this weekend, the holiest weekend in the Christian calendar for people to contemplate exactly where we are as a faith in the persecution directed towards the faith.

00:01:07.340 Walk us through, from a Catholic perspective, the importance of Holy Saturday.

00:01:14.200 You know, people know Good Friday and the crucifixion of Christ, Holy Thursday with the Last Supper and the rest, Gethsemane, and then you've got...

00:01:22.340 But Holy Saturday kind of, a lot of times gets lost in the mix, and obviously with Easter.

00:01:30.000 But what's the importance of Holy Saturday, and particularly this belief of Christ's descent into hell?

00:01:35.320 Yeah, there are two things. Thank you, Steve. And it's good to be with you on this very, very holy day.

00:01:41.820 There are two traditions that go way back. One that goes back furthest is the one you just mentioned, the idea of Christ's descent into hell.

00:01:52.280 It's a hell that's a little different than the way we understand hell today, in the sense that he went to lead out the souls of the just who had died before his coming.

00:02:03.720 It's a basic Christian belief that up till Christ redeemed the world, up to the time of his suffering on the cross, all those good and holy prophets, men and women of God who had lived since the time of Adam, since the fall of Adam and Eve, they had not been able to go to heaven.

00:02:22.220 Heaven had not been opened to them. A savior was needed.

00:02:26.100 And the traditional understanding of that was that they were in hell, hell not as in condemned for all time, the way we think of hell as having been judged and found unworthy, but hell more like our understanding of limbo, the old traditional sense of kind of in a waiting place or in a place of the dead, a Gehenna-like place.

00:02:50.960 And that Jesus goes, and there's a beautiful homily from the second century, one of the earliest Christian texts we possess outside of biblical texts, where the author describes Jesus talking to Adam and his conversation with him because he is the new Adam, and inviting him to stand up and to take his rightful place.

00:03:14.560 And then all these crowds, the multitude of the just who lived in times before Christ, rejoicing in the salvation that has finally come to them, that they are now able to enter heaven.

00:03:27.040 How is this? It's something that's been lost in modernity. It's not really discussed of Holy Saturday and Christ going into, you know, going to hell to bring, I guess, the pagans or the people that were there that hadn't had the living word of Christ on earth when they existed, right?

00:03:48.540 The great philosophers and all that. Why is it like so many other teachings? And one of the powerful things about your book is to go back and really emphasize the early church, what happened in the early church, the persecutions of the early church to make sure you understand, to make sure we understand it, particularly that it was directed at the Christian faith.

00:04:08.680 Why, why, with modernity, have people kind of lost, has Holy Saturday in the general Christian faith overall kind of lost its place?

00:04:19.060 Well, unfortunately, Steve, I think you know that answer better than I do. It's this kind of sunny, feel-good form of Christianity and Catholicism that is so prevalent in our day.

00:04:29.140 We only want to talk about the nice, fuzzy-feeling kind of stories and the parables and the sheep and the things that make us feel good.

00:04:37.260 It's not only Jesus' descent into hell that we don't talk about on Holy Saturday, we don't talk about hell itself.

00:04:43.580 We don't talk about the possibility of condemnation. We don't talk about judgment. We don't talk about the eternal truths.

00:04:49.200 And this is, we're not doing justice to the fullness of the Christian message when we pass over these essential, central teachings of the Christian and the Catholic faith.

00:05:00.480 So I think that's kind of the short answer to this. It's also something very tough for people to understand.

00:05:06.060 You know, again, we don't talk about hell at all, but look, in the Apostles' Creed, what do we say?

00:05:12.260 We say he descended into hell, right? I mean, it's actually there, but nobody goes and explains, bothers to look, what does that even mean, right?

00:05:20.320 This idea that there was an entire human race of those who had been deemed just, whether they were, as you say, the pagan philosophers and those who were just Gentiles, if you will,

00:05:32.540 but also all the Jewish patriarchs and prophets, all the Jewish holy people who had not been able to enter heaven until Christ opened it for them.

00:05:42.580 This is something absolutely remarkable and wonderful, and it is mysterious.

00:05:47.520 It's something that is very hard to understand, but it's something that is at the core of what we believe as Christians,

00:05:53.680 and it's so good that you bring this back by having us talk about this on Holy Saturday.

00:05:59.300 A second thing, I'll say this just as kind of a segue so that we can go back to the other as well.

00:06:04.480 Well, another part of the Christian tradition is a great devotion to Mary on Holy Saturday.

00:06:12.520 There's been, for many centuries, a devotion of special consolation to the Blessed Virgin Mary,

00:06:19.780 who knows a sorrow and an abandonment on Holy Saturday that the rest of humanity does not experience.

00:06:26.900 And the reason that Saturday has always been considered Mary's day, the day after her passion, in a way, was on Saturday and Christ's passion was on Friday.

00:06:40.020 That's why we celebrate the Immaculate Heart of Mary always on a Saturday, the day after we celebrate the Sacred Heart of Jesus.

00:06:46.380 It's her sharing in the passion, but also in a particular way of having Jesus, her son, taken from her.

00:06:53.900 It's this day of mourning, this day of loss, when she experiences this desolation of soul because her beloved son, Jesus, has been taken from her.

00:07:05.000 She watched him suffer and die, and now he's laid in a tomb.

00:07:08.560 And so there is also that beautiful tradition of consolation to the Blessed Virgin Mary, particularly on that Saturday.

00:07:16.160 Dr. Williams, so much of your book goes back to what was it about Christianity that had the Roman state actually make it an official part of policy to persecute it?

00:07:37.160 And I want to get into what the Christian message was and why it was so different as an organized faith, because I think it relates to your message is really in the subtitle of your book is very chilling.

00:07:48.540 It's called The Coming Christian Persecution. 0.97

00:07:51.500 The Coming Christian Persecution and the subtitle of why things are getting worse and how to prepare for what is to come.

00:08:00.200 And I can tell you, and I've known Dr. Williams for a long time, is that this is an incredibly chilling book because of the intellectual rigor you bring to this topic.

00:08:10.100 The reason I want to do this on Holy Saturday with you is given this what's just happened in Nashville at the Christian school.

00:08:19.000 And more and more information comes out about this.

00:08:21.940 The young woman who did it obviously planned it, planned it for a while.

00:08:25.820 She had gone to the school.

00:08:27.700 I think she was actually in counseling with with the pastor or one of the senior people there.

00:08:32.560 And it looks to many people in the United States and nobody wants to talk about it.

00:08:37.960 They certainly won't let it be talked about in the mainstream media that this persecution of Christians is actually we're actually entering a quite dangerous phase of it, particularly when the mainstream media has said, well, you know,

00:08:50.600 it's Tom Williams and Steve Bannon and and these Dr.

00:08:54.320 Martin Taylor Marshall and Marshall Taylor, all these all these people are all Christian nationalists.

00:09:00.740 Right. And they're the dangers. They're the domestic terrorists.

00:09:04.240 Walk me through why your book really, quite frankly, you give people a heads up that the Nashvilles of the world are not going to be the exception.

00:09:13.340 They're going to be the rule, sir.

00:09:14.740 Well, that is. Yeah, that is the unfortunate reality.

00:09:18.740 It's not a very cheery book.

00:09:20.820 It's meant to be an honest book.

00:09:22.300 It's meant to be a book that digs in and also in a way a hopeful book in the sense that Christians are always called to live by hope and especially when things get darkest.

00:09:32.380 But the reality is that things are simply getting worse and they're getting worse in a particular way, an accelerated way in the post-Christian West. 0.96

00:09:42.000 And it's what I find most distressing. There have always been active persecutions among nonbelievers, among other religions that find Christianity intolerable, among atheist, communist regimes.

00:09:54.920 This is something that we know exists and we're in a way prepared for that.

00:09:59.080 What we're less prepared for, I think, is our own society, which was founded on principles of religious liberty, founded on the worship of God.

00:10:06.960 I mean, the first pilgrims who came over did so because they wanted to be able to worship in peace and freedom.

00:10:13.040 That society itself turning against Christians and using, as you say, this language to tar Christians as being the problem, as the obstacles to progress, as, you know, really as bigots, as Christian nationalists, as white supremacists,

00:10:28.700 all the different epithets that you want to apply to Christians to make Christians out to be the bad guy. 0.52

00:10:34.400 And what do we do with the bad guy? The bad guy, like the ogre in the fairy tales, has to be eliminated. 0.90

00:10:40.180 You call out your pitchforks and you chase them out of town, you string them up, you kill them. 0.97

00:10:45.060 And this is something that, unfortunately, we often look at as just, this is rhetorical, but it's not just rhetorical. 0.98

00:10:53.560 And it's so easy once you've kind of painted Christians in this way, Christians who take their faith seriously, I'm not talking about the accommodated Christians who go along with the radical secularist agenda,

00:11:05.920 but those who really take their faith seriously will be more and more portrayed as the enemy and a dangerous enemy.

00:11:12.580 And a dangerous enemy must be fought tooth and nail.

00:11:17.640 And I think the Covenant School in Nashville is a perfect example of this, because that rhetoric, that anti-Christian rhetoric,

00:11:24.580 which sometimes gets very, very abusive and very violent among the LGBT and particularly the transgender lobby,

00:11:34.080 it becomes something that the enemy has to be eliminated.

00:11:37.180 And we see examples of it. In this case, this is not the first attack by a transgender person. 0.98

00:11:43.480 And as you noted also, the mainstream media will always go back and rewrite the narrative.

00:11:48.020 They will always paint the transgender person as the victim.

00:11:52.580 Oh, because they're so ostracized in society, because Christians have been speaking against them for so long.

00:11:59.160 It's just natural. It's just that Christians would finally get their comeuppance and that people like this would rebel against them. 1.00

00:12:07.180 We're going to go to break here in a second. Were you shocked?

00:12:12.100 I guess you were not about how the media handled, because here we are, you know, last week in the nation's capital,

00:12:19.560 just yards from where we do the show, there was going to be this transgender day, I think, of violence or vengeance, 1.00

00:12:28.060 transgender day of vengeance. 1.00

00:12:29.520 It was canceled last week.

00:12:32.400 We've demanded that the manifesto, because she wrote a manifesto, that that be released.

00:12:37.460 They're suppressing that. They don't want to put that out.

00:12:40.040 Were you shocked about how the coverage of this went down?

00:12:43.900 There's no mention at all about it really being a Christian school and an attack upon Christianity, sir.

00:12:48.040 Well, no, it played out like, you know, this kind of dystopian reality where everything is twisted.

00:12:57.200 At the beginning, no one wanted to say that she was transgender.

00:13:01.280 No one wanted to say that she identified as a male, as a man.

00:13:05.040 This is something that they suppressed for a while, and then it became just common knowledge, and so that was the narrative that was given.

00:13:11.740 And weirdly, they did not refer to her as a man.

00:13:15.880 In any of these stories, for some reason, they took her biological sex as the reality,

00:13:21.660 perhaps because that's the way the police report initially portrayed it, but at least that was true to the facts.

00:13:29.400 But the fact that they completely flipped on its head, they didn't want to talk about, again, the Christian school,

00:13:36.100 that there was a targeted anti-Christian attack, and that the perpetrator was transgender.

00:13:42.600 And then later on, as you say, there's still this confusion as to motive.

00:13:46.280 I mean, I think the motive's fairly self-evident, but the fact that we actually have a document, a text, the manifesto,

00:13:53.380 and that they won't release it.

00:13:54.400 Yes, the manifesto.

00:13:56.700 Tom, just hang on for one second.

00:13:58.440 We're taking a short commercial break.

00:14:00.140 It's our Holy Saturday special, The Descent into Hell, The Coming Christian Persecution. 0.97

00:14:04.880 Tom Williams is our guest.

00:14:06.100 The Descent into Hell, The Coming Christian Persecution. 0.95

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00:16:14.800 Okay, welcome back.

00:16:16.840 It's Holy Saturday.

00:16:19.020 We are talking about the persecution of the Christians on the day in the calendar that is Christ's descent into hell before the resurrection tomorrow.

00:16:30.860 Dr. Tom Williams joins us from Rome, is the author of this new book about the coming persecution of Christians.

00:16:37.360 He's written a number of books before.

00:16:40.040 Nothing this, Tom, nothing this, I'm not saying dark, but this book grabs you, and you realize, because a lot of people would say,

00:16:49.620 well, Christianity's being persecuted right now.

00:16:51.880 You actually say, well, you ain't seen nothing yet.

00:16:54.040 I want to go back to this concept, and it gets bandied about a lot, but I would like you to define it for our audience.

00:17:01.720 The post-Christian West. 0.95

00:17:04.940 What do you mean about post-Christian?

00:17:07.580 How did we get there?

00:17:08.660 Because we think of the Judeo-Christian West as a society and culture really predicated upon, you know, Athens, Jerusalem, and Rome.

00:17:18.900 And, you know, how was that formed?

00:17:22.820 What did it mean?

00:17:23.460 And why do you say, and can point to, that we're in a post-Christian society?

00:17:29.460 Well, I think, Steve, that this is the United States.

00:17:33.780 This is Europe.

00:17:34.540 These are the former Christendom, if you will.

00:17:37.640 The societies that were built on, as you say, in a particular way, Athens, and Jerusalem, and Rome, and especially in terms of its legal tradition,

00:17:48.700 these were brought, this was the humus, if you will, in which this society grew.

00:17:54.980 It was based on a Christian understanding of the human person, on society, on the family, on the state,

00:18:01.380 and the relationship between the state and the individual.

00:18:03.360 These were principles that come from the Judeo-Christian tradition and that were accepted as just in the West as a common heritage and a common sense approach to reality.

00:18:16.920 This is the way the world was understood.

00:18:19.500 The world was intelligible because it was made by an intelligent being, that there was, you could see God's footprints everywhere,

00:18:28.060 his fingerprints on his creation, that man was created male and female, that the family was one man and one woman and their children,

00:18:38.760 that life has value and dignity and must be defended and upheld, that people should love their country.

00:18:49.400 St. Thomas Aquinas speaks about that.

00:18:51.140 He says, the same way you love your parents, you love your country because your country gave birth to you.

00:18:58.040 He speaks of the word piety in terms of loving your country, this piety toward your country,

00:19:04.040 all these different virtues and values that were part and parcel of the Christian tradition, which are now vanishing.

00:19:10.860 They're evaporating before our very eyes in a very hostile mentality, one that is anti-Christian, is post-Christian.

00:19:19.360 And for a while, I think we were sort of content to live in this post-Christian kind of miasma situation, 0.97

00:19:26.140 where, yeah, we kind of know where we came from, but even if we get rid of those roots,

00:19:31.200 we can still live off the benefits of those basic beliefs.

00:19:36.720 But now it's more and more hostile.

00:19:39.040 They want to reinvent the founding of the nation.

00:19:40.900 They want to reinvent the principles.

00:19:42.520 They want to negate the good and make it look like everything grew out of evil and that everything needs to be restarted in a new name.

00:19:52.360 I think it's a very, very evil and extremely dangerous project, the one that is coming now in what is not just the post-Christian West, 1.00

00:20:02.560 but is becoming more and more the anti-Christian West, where Christianity is looked upon as the enemy,

00:20:08.480 where Christians are looked upon as obstacles to progress, as people who, as one author likes to call it,

00:20:15.960 you know, are stuck in the Bronze Age with this Bronze Age Bible of myths and stories, 0.73

00:20:21.560 this very dangerous attachment to an obscurantist past, and not allowing this radical secularist agenda to unfold.

00:20:32.360 And that's the kind of battle that we're headed for right now.

00:20:38.080 How did—talk to us about the first century church.

00:20:41.160 What was it about Christianity that was different?

00:20:43.900 What was it about Christianity that caused the first persecution—the great persecution and everything that led up to that?

00:20:50.200 Because in understanding that, you can then begin to understand the coming Christian persecution.

00:20:56.400 That's essentially the thesis of your book, right?

00:20:58.320 You must go back in time and understand what differentiated this from other religions,

00:21:02.800 what differentiated this as a faith, to see the strong reaction of the Roman state against it leading up to the great persecution, sir.

00:21:13.300 The Roman Empire was all about assimilation. 1.00

00:21:16.180 It was all about—it was a very tolerant state as far as it goes, in the sense that as long as you can integrate your beliefs,

00:21:23.800 your belief system, your religion, into this greater pluralist Roman society,

00:21:30.500 as long as you're willing also to sacrifice to the emperor and to burn incense to the emperor,

00:21:36.480 as long as this is part of it, you can have your little cults and your rituals and your diverse things.

00:21:42.580 Christians were very open-minded, but your allegiance must first be to the state, and it must be to Caesar, who is divine. 0.92

00:21:50.040 And Christians obviously could not abide by this, and it was primarily their higher allegiance to God 0.51

00:21:58.420 that in the end put them in a situation of necessary conflict with the Roman state.

00:22:04.060 The other group that somehow escaped this, and scholars give an answer to why they escaped it,

00:22:11.020 were the Jews living within the Roman Empire.

00:22:14.040 And the reason was they would technically have been illegal as well because of their unwillingness,

00:22:19.900 obviously, to sacrifice to other gods other than Yahweh.

00:22:23.620 The difference was that whereas the Jews were content to kind of keep to themselves, 0.94

00:22:29.760 they were not a proselytizing faith, they were not going out there to make converts,

00:22:34.700 they were not preaching on the streets, they were not bringing people into the fold,

00:22:40.000 the Christians were the exact opposite. 0.96

00:22:42.520 So you had Christians, and this really alarmed powers within the Roman Empire,

00:22:47.640 whether they were emperors themselves or local governors at different times,

00:22:51.100 the persecutions ebbed and flowed.

00:22:53.320 But the problem was, so many people were converting.

00:22:57.700 Christianity was so powerful and so attractive that you had people from the very poorest 1.00

00:23:02.660 to the patricians and the very wealthy.

00:23:06.520 It was something that spanned every class and every social group so that you had soldiers,

00:23:14.020 and you had politicians, and you had artists, and you had literary figures,

00:23:19.380 all being very attractive and coming into the Christian fold.

00:23:23.820 And so this was something that really caught the attention of the powers of the Roman Empire

00:23:29.600 and was looked upon as something that could not be tolerated.

00:23:33.100 And again, there were times when it became extraordinarily hostile,

00:23:36.400 when they would hunt down Christians wherever they could find them.

00:23:41.060 At other times, even some of the more considered to be more enlightened and benevolent,

00:23:45.440 the emperor's like Trajan, Trajan's philosophy was,

00:23:51.740 and he writes this to Pliny the Elder in a letter that we still have,

00:23:55.820 he says, you know, don't hunt them down.

00:23:58.220 But, you know, if there are complaints made, if you find out about them,

00:24:02.800 bring them in and make sure that they are willing to sacrifice the emperor,

00:24:06.820 make sure they're willing to abjure this higher allegiance to their god, 0.99

00:24:11.140 or they shall be prosecuted and they will be put to death.

00:24:14.760 And this is something that even under the more enlightened emperors this happened.

00:24:19.720 One of the things about the book that's very chilling is to show that some of the emperors,

00:24:24.820 and it's almost like the modern world,

00:24:26.900 they understand these Christians have the deep faith,

00:24:29.020 but they're kind of saying, hey, all you got to do is light some incense.

00:24:32.780 All you have to do, you don't have to give up what you really believe.

00:24:35.020 You just have to light some incense.

00:24:36.760 You just have to be performative and we'll look the other way,

00:24:40.320 and you can go along and lead your life.

00:24:41.980 And it's obviously more important to lead your life and have your community

00:24:44.740 if you just do this performative.

00:24:47.260 And about the Christians said, I can't do that. 0.97

00:24:49.760 That is to the core of it.

00:24:51.420 It's very chilling because many of the Roman emperors,

00:24:54.900 many of the Roman officials make a quite modern argument, right?

00:24:59.660 They just be performative.

00:25:01.140 Just do this so that we can get past it because we're not that interested in snuffing you out.

00:25:06.840 We just want to get past this.

00:25:08.540 And what's amazing is the Christian has said, I'm not doing that. 0.83

00:25:13.120 That light one thing of incense in front of a statue, not just a polytheism,

00:25:20.280 but a statue of Augustus Caesar or whatever emperors at the time,

00:25:26.080 cuts to the core of my being.

00:25:27.580 It's very chilling that the Christians had the option and were dangled off it, 0.99

00:25:31.480 not all the time, but were dangled the option of just be performative

00:25:34.680 and go about your business.

00:25:36.100 They said, no, it's performative to you, but it cuts to the core of my faith

00:25:41.040 and I won't do it.

00:25:41.840 And they told them, hey, you're going to have the most heinous tortures if you don't.

00:25:46.880 And they said, hey, it is what it is.

00:25:49.900 Tom Williams.

00:25:52.000 Yeah.

00:25:52.440 And this, unfortunately, this is exactly what we see today.

00:25:55.540 There will always be the great temptation for modern Christians is accommodation. 0.99

00:26:00.960 It is that willingness to do the modern equivalent of burning some incense before the statue of

00:26:08.060 Caesar.

00:26:08.980 And this is something, that's why the Dick Durbins and the Nancy Pelosi's and the Joe

00:26:13.940 Biden's of this world are embraced by radical secularists.

00:26:18.440 This is a Christianity that they can live with. 0.95

00:26:20.740 Oh, you've got a rosary in your pocket.

00:26:22.660 You're my kind of Christian because obviously your Christian faith does not impinge upon

00:26:27.240 any of your moral beliefs, any of your political stances.

00:26:30.760 It is something that doesn't change who you are.

00:26:33.340 And so we like you.

00:26:34.920 We will embrace you because you are willing to burn that incense to Caesar. 0.97

00:26:40.160 And for Christians who take their faith seriously, they are the enemy. 1.00

00:26:44.180 If you're Amy Coney Barrett and you come in and the dogma lives loudly in you, you are

00:26:49.280 not acceptable.

00:26:50.120 We will not give you a place at this table.

00:26:52.120 We will do everything we can to thwart your rise here because we don't trust you, because

00:26:59.280 we disqualify you because of that faith, because of that deeply held belief, because of that

00:27:04.580 devotion that you feel.

00:27:05.800 You're not able to be unbiased.

00:27:07.560 You're going to be problematic in your rulings because of that faith that you possess.

00:27:14.020 So we see how history really does repeat itself.

00:27:17.820 It is those Christians who are willing to live by their faith and take it seriously

00:27:21.740 enough, they are the ones who are going to suffer for it.

00:27:24.420 And if you're willing to accommodate, if you're willing to say, hey, you know, whatever, we

00:27:29.280 can't stop progress.

00:27:30.300 If this is the way society is going, let's just all get on board.

00:27:33.380 Let's get on the bus and they'll let us keep our rosaries. 0.62

00:27:36.620 You know, those are the ones who are going to do just fine.

00:27:41.340 Hang on, Tom.

00:27:42.640 We're going to take a break.

00:27:44.200 We're going to talk about, by the way, we wouldn't have had Christianity. 0.97

00:27:47.800 Christianity bequeathed to us as it was if the early church had been accommodationist.

00:27:53.980 They weren't.

00:27:55.320 They would not accommodate.

00:27:56.940 And that led to the rise of the Judeo-Christian West. 0.88

00:28:00.040 Short break.

00:28:00.720 Dr. Tom Williams on the other side.

00:28:05.700 I want to warn you of a huge change that could be coming to our money and our bank accounts.

00:28:11.340 First, think back to 9-11, shortly after the government pushed through the Patriot Act.

00:28:15.360 This gave the government power to spy on innocent Americans by monitoring our phone and email

00:28:21.100 and tracking our movement across the Internet.

00:28:24.220 Now, Jim Rickards, editor of the independent financial newsletter Strategic Intelligence

00:28:28.680 and New York Times bestselling author, is warning about a coming event that could elevate this

00:28:34.420 governmental surveillance to a terrifying new level.

00:28:37.440 In fact, some of the guests I've had on The War Room believe that the government will soon

00:28:41.580 expand their powers to track our every move.

00:28:44.820 If we say the wrong things on social media, donate to the wrong causes, buy firearms, or

00:28:50.560 even vote MAGA, the government may be able to shut us out of our bank accounts.

00:28:55.860 I can't say for sure if this will happen, but it's an interesting and dire warning.

00:29:01.380 Fortunately, Jim Rickards, an American patriot and friend of mine, has made it his mission to

00:29:05.680 educate us on what he believes is coming and how to protect yourself from the possibility

00:29:11.400 of programmable money.

00:29:13.700 Watch Jim's warning video now, before it's censored like I've been in the past.

00:29:19.480 Go to RickardsWarRoom.com.

00:29:21.500 That's RickardsWarRoom.com now to see the video.

00:29:24.940 Okay, it is Holy Saturday, 8 April in the year of our Lord, 2023.

00:29:47.180 This is our annual tradition of Christ's descent into hell.

00:29:50.900 We always have a special guest that can walk us through some of the issues that the church

00:29:54.760 faces.

00:29:56.440 When someone of a profound thinker as Tom Williams actually takes a year or two of his life to

00:30:03.480 write a book about the coming Christian persecution, why things are getting worse and how to prepare

00:30:08.460 for what is to come.

00:30:10.580 First, I want to deal with how is it getting worse?

00:30:13.580 What are the signs of that?

00:30:14.640 What should we be looking for before we pivot to how do you prepare for it?

00:30:19.340 Tom, where do you think we are?

00:30:21.340 Because I think a lot of Christians are just waking up to the fact of this is serious.

00:30:25.880 And I think the Covenant School shooting is just the first of several things that now people can

00:30:31.620 kind of tie these together to say, I see something that's quite dangerous here, in particular

00:30:35.740 the language that's being used, sir.

00:30:37.360 You know, the basic thesis of the book, Steve, is that the drivers of Christian persecution

00:30:44.540 are intensifying.

00:30:47.040 And the traditional and historic bastions against Christian persecution, those that uphold religious

00:30:53.440 liberty, those that defend and protect Christians, are weakening.

00:30:59.020 And these two things going hand in hand set up a situation where things cannot but get worse.

00:31:06.320 And there's a problem which, you know, I hope this book will address this problem, will

00:31:10.940 alleviate in some way this problem, the widespread ignorance as to the magnitude of the problem.

00:31:16.620 People do not realize how many Christians are actively persecuted around the world, and

00:31:22.180 how this persecution, which is very bloody in many places, is becoming bloody right before

00:31:28.720 our eyes, even in the post-Christian West.

00:31:31.280 Even where persecution used to mean, for a Westerner, you know, a little ostracization,

00:31:36.660 a little bit of ridicule in the academy, a little bit of, oh, isn't that sweet, that,

00:31:41.260 you know, devout kind of benighted figure.

00:31:44.540 And now it's something that becomes more and more hostile, more and more aggressive.

00:31:48.980 And we are going to see more of this kind of violent attack, because there are no voices

00:31:53.500 speaking out on behalf of Christians.

00:31:55.960 Christians are considered to be a majority.

00:31:59.520 They're considered to be well-standing.

00:32:01.720 They're considered to be able to take care of themselves.

00:32:04.560 And as soon as Christians start raising their voices and say, this is not a good situation,

00:32:08.860 the way that Christianity is being portrayed and the dangerous rhetoric being used, then

00:32:14.240 you get the stop whining. 0.71

00:32:16.280 You know, don't be a whiner. 0.90

00:32:17.780 Don't complain about your situation.

00:32:19.220 And even among many Christians, they're held back in speaking the truth about what is going

00:32:24.120 on, because they don't want to look like that.

00:32:26.720 They don't want to be the one who's complaining or shining a light on that very, very problematic

00:32:32.200 area.

00:32:34.820 Tell me about when you say the institutions that used to be there to prevent this are not

00:32:39.420 there anymore, that this is starting to ramp up and they're not there.

00:32:42.580 What do you mean by that?

00:32:44.480 Well, let's start with the Western media.

00:32:46.920 The Western media simply ignores, but ignores, I don't really believe that it's because people

00:32:53.840 don't know what's going on.

00:32:55.140 There's an unwillingness to investigate and there's an unwillingness to report on the reality

00:33:00.300 of Christian persecution around the world.

00:33:02.000 It's something that is intentionally withheld from people.

00:33:06.000 And so we talk, I talk to people all the time, very right-thinking, good people who have

00:33:11.360 no concept of the reality of Christian persecution in the world.

00:33:15.100 They just do not understand how widespread it is, how violent it is, how terrible and

00:33:21.480 terrifying it is in the world, because they never hear about it.

00:33:25.020 They don't happen to read websites, the Christian website that actually investigate this, those

00:33:31.280 reports that come out, which are never covered, obviously, on mainstream media.

00:33:36.200 But one of the reasons, but hang on, but one of the reasons they don't know it is that

00:33:40.500 it's not preached from the pulpit.

00:33:43.120 It's not preached in the evangelical church.

00:33:44.900 It's not preached in the Catholic church.

00:33:46.720 It's, you know, all you hear, and particularly in the Catholic church, some in the more mainstream

00:33:50.800 Protestant churches, is dialogue, right?

00:33:53.280 It's dialogue.

00:33:54.380 You never hear this coming from the Vatican.

00:33:56.320 You never hear it preached on virtually any pulpit of a Catholic church on a Sunday.

00:34:01.140 You very rarely hear it from any of the evangelical or even the outside of the mainstream Christian

00:34:07.960 preachers, unless somebody is tied to missionary work in sub-Saharan Africa, or they're tied

00:34:13.440 to missionary work in the Middle East, like in Iraq.

00:34:18.860 I mean, is it one of the reasons we're not hearing it?

00:34:21.740 It's not just the mainstream media is in the media's fault.

00:34:25.660 There's something about the church is not putting this front and center, is that, hey, there's

00:34:30.440 a problem here.

00:34:31.600 They're coming after us in a very organized way, whether that is in communist China, in

00:34:36.180 sub-Saharan Africa, in eradication of the Christians in the cradle of Christianity, which 0.91

00:34:42.500 is the Near East or the Middle East.

00:34:44.840 I mean, isn't one of the central things to hear that either because of they're afraid to

00:34:49.980 talk about it, or they like their international organizations and they don't want to be out

00:34:57.480 there actually defending Christianity, that the more official aspects of the Christian

00:35:02.520 and Catholic church won't address this?

00:35:05.780 Well, you're absolutely right, Steve.

00:35:07.820 I think there is a very strong tendency to want to assimilate, to want to just get along,

00:35:14.860 to want to say this brotherhood of man.

00:35:17.420 It's like John Lennon's Imagine.

00:35:19.020 Everybody, it's so prevalent in mainstream Christianity, this sense of, you know, we're

00:35:25.480 all the same.

00:35:27.040 The religions are all basically the same, we're all different paths to God. 1.00

00:35:31.280 One's just as good as another.

00:35:33.600 Nothing should separate us.

00:35:34.960 We shouldn't be arguing about this.

00:35:36.980 We shouldn't be, you know, pointing out differences.

00:35:40.320 We shouldn't be living out to the full who we are.

00:35:44.140 We should be willing to accommodate and to bend and to fit in.

00:35:48.300 See, this is what the emperors, this is what the savvy and smart emperors, cunning emperors

00:35:53.940 in the first century and second century offered up, was the accommodation.

00:35:59.120 Just be performative.

00:36:00.260 All you got to do is burn a little bit of incense.

00:36:01.940 You don't even, they didn't even demand that you believe it.

00:36:05.580 All you have to do is just give me a little burn there in the dish and go about your merry 0.91

00:36:10.180 way.

00:36:10.560 Isn't that exactly what's happened here with the institutional church in the 21st century

00:36:15.960 when the church is under, as you make in the book, one of the things that's most compelling,

00:36:20.760 you actually make the case that the persecution today in the 21st century is probably worse in

00:36:27.320 any metric you want to look at than in the 1st and 2nd century of the early church, sir?

00:36:34.900 Yes.

00:36:35.400 Well, that is, I think, verifiably, statistically true.

00:36:39.800 It's just the pervasiveness of Christian persecution in the world.

00:36:43.880 The fact that 75% of people who are persecuted for whatever faith they belong to happen to

00:36:48.680 be Christians, that there are some 360 million Christians who live under severe persecution

00:36:54.740 in danger of their lives every day.

00:36:57.000 These are facts and figures that are so startling and so, but again, so unknown.

00:37:03.220 This is really the untold story that so many people are ignorant of.

00:37:07.260 But I agree with you, and look, you know, the Catholics in the United States, we have

00:37:12.100 a whole history of this.

00:37:12.940 There's always been a temptation, because Catholics were very persecuted early on, as, you know,

00:37:17.920 the Irish and the Polish and sometimes Germans, and they did everything in their power to make

00:37:23.480 it look like, oh, I'm first an American and then I'm a Catholic, right?

00:37:27.080 And this was a temptation.

00:37:29.020 It was a temptation to fit in, to assimilate, to make it show that you're a better citizen,

00:37:33.380 show that you're, and this, we got John F. Kennedy out of this, you know, the one who said,

00:37:37.180 you know, I'm not, I'm first an American, I'm going to be an American, and this is something

00:37:42.060 that there's always been a struggle in kind of the Catholic spirit in the U.S., but it's

00:37:45.900 only more recently the evangelicals and the Protestants have joined in that same timidness

00:37:50.700 and that same unwillingness to say, you know, I am a Christian, and I uphold, and my allegiance

00:37:57.400 to Jesus Christ is actually superior to any other allegiances I have, and it's what makes

00:38:02.460 me a good citizen, what makes me a loyal patriot is because I actually do believe, and I believe

00:38:08.080 that I should be loyal to my nation.

00:38:10.960 But this is something that we're very afraid of right now.

00:38:13.920 We're so afraid of not fitting in.

00:38:15.720 We're so afraid of being considered to be obscurantists, to be considered to be, you know,

00:38:21.540 less cool than the academics who say that this is something that's very passe.

00:38:26.640 We all want to fit in, and this is the great temptation of our day, and it's why so few

00:38:31.420 people are willing to stand up and be counted and just say, hey, yeah, I'm an educated person,

00:38:36.940 and I am a Christian, and I believe in the creed.

00:38:40.320 I recite it on Sunday, and I believe it, and I try to, you know, base my life around this

00:38:45.160 because these are the truths that actually give firm grounding to my existence and explain

00:38:50.680 reality to me.

00:38:51.580 This is what explains human existence and my personal existence in the most cogent, coherent

00:38:57.100 way that I've ever seen that I can imagine.

00:39:00.160 But many Christians don't want to do that.

00:39:01.940 They want to keep that away in the little catacombs of their house, and when they walk

00:39:06.760 out on the street, they want to look like everybody else.

00:39:09.220 They don't want to be seen as somehow different because it's dangerous.

00:39:13.640 It's uncomfortable to be different.

00:39:16.000 But this is the world we live in, and we have to stand up, or else we're going to get

00:39:21.080 the situation that we're getting right now.

00:39:24.240 Did you see any—because I know you follow this, and we follow it quite closely—do you

00:39:29.280 remember any big names in either the institutional Protestant church or the Catholic church, or even

00:39:36.640 come up and condemn what happened against the children at the Covenant School?

00:39:41.880 Was there any outrage at all in the Christian community as far as you saw it?

00:39:46.000 One person that I saw, and I do follow this as closely as I can, Franklin Graham, whom

00:39:52.980 I'm a big fan of, I think he's a worthy scion of his father, did make a couple very interesting

00:40:01.780 Facebook posts.

00:40:02.680 He's got 10 million followers, and he brought this up and said that was—he said, evil walked

00:40:07.900 into that school that day.

00:40:09.220 He actually was very poetic and very stern in the way that he described the situation.

00:40:17.680 I mean, he hasn't gone into the whole question of this transgender in the way that the mainstream

00:40:23.160 media are addressing it, but he did definitely come down very, very hard and brought up the

00:40:29.340 fact that these were Christians who were killed because they were Christians.

00:40:32.220 I mean, your warning is why things are going to get worse.

00:40:38.720 Isn't one of the reasons it's going to get worse because Christian leadership—if Christian 1.00

00:40:44.140 leadership in the Catholic church, the mainstream Protestant churches, leading evangelicals were

00:40:49.080 to basically draw a line now and say, this is going to stop on our watch, isn't that one

00:40:54.700 of the most important things?

00:40:55.900 Isn't that the beginning of stopping it getting worse?

00:41:00.080 Absolutely.

00:41:01.580 But part of the reason it's going to get worse is because we're just not seeing that.

00:41:05.420 And I think that even when an isolated Christian leader or a Catholic bishop in some diocese

00:41:12.100 stands up and makes a strong case, right now those bishops are not getting support from Rome.

00:41:18.980 They're not getting support—if you're a Protestant pastor, you're not getting support from your

00:41:22.700 community, you're not getting support from the other pastors, you're very much alone.

00:41:26.560 You're like a Jeremiah preaching, and you're not feeling like you're getting a lot of love

00:41:31.540 for that.

00:41:31.940 You're not getting a lot of support.

00:41:33.420 And I think that that is the reason this very tiny minority of those who are willing to

00:41:38.200 speak out, we're just not seeing the kind of leadership we need right now to bring attention

00:41:42.820 to the dire reality that we're living.

00:41:47.560 Tom, if you could hang on for a second.

00:41:49.400 We're going to take a short commercial break.

00:41:50.840 We've got Dr. Tom Williams, who's the author of many, many books, principally about theology.

00:41:56.480 He's written this really for a crisis publication, The Coming Christian Persecution,

00:42:02.300 with someone as deep and profound as Dr. Williams takes on about the persecution of the Christian

00:42:10.360 church, particularly the subtitle, Why Things Are Getting Worse, and How to Prepare for What

00:42:15.740 Is to Come.

00:42:17.420 If you're a believing Christian, it is quite a stark book, but a must-read, and more importantly, 0.71

00:42:24.840 a must-understand the argument.

00:42:26.440 Okay, we're going to take a short commercial break.

00:42:28.500 We're going to return in the war room.

00:42:30.100 This is our special, every year we do this, on Holy Saturday, as we await Easter Sunday,

00:42:39.480 The Descent Into Hell.

00:42:41.380 So we're going to take a short commercial break.

00:42:42.940 We'll be back in a moment.

00:42:44.080 Thank you.

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00:44:43.880 Okay, welcome back.

00:44:47.120 Boys, Tom Williams, what a guy.

00:44:50.780 Quite brilliant.

00:44:52.980 Persecution of Christians.

00:44:54.100 One thing we don't spend enough time on.

00:44:57.580 Got to spend more.

00:44:59.320 When we get back, particularly people who are Catholics, I think some of the Protestant

00:45:03.100 faiths have picked this up now.

00:45:04.720 The service this evening on Holy Saturday is, I think, not just the longest, it's the

00:45:11.100 most intense, I think, of all the services that we have, either in Advent or around Christmas

00:45:17.480 or Ash Wednesday, even Good Friday.

00:45:21.240 The Holy Saturday is the most intense.

00:45:22.780 So for all the Catholics, I'll probably start most, for most folks, later in the afternoon.

00:45:26.900 We're going to be back on Monday, and we'll be into this big time tomorrow, obviously, Resurrection

00:45:31.720 Sunday, Easter Sunday.

00:45:34.420 A lot of people are obviously going to go to dawn services and then enjoy the family the

00:45:40.140 rest of the day and those traditional Easter things that one does.

00:45:43.860 Monday, it's going to be, Congress is still not back.

00:45:47.020 They're off another week, but there'll be a lot of intensity next week, particularly on

00:45:52.960 a number of topics that I don't want to get into today on this show, but be advised, I'll

00:45:59.680 be up on Getter over the weekend.

00:46:01.680 And of course, back here on Monday, it'll be quite, quite intense.

00:46:04.620 We're also going to have some announcements of things that we're going to try to pull off

00:46:08.820 of actually going out and doing things physically, doing the Gladiator School.

00:46:14.860 Remember, we did the Force Multiplier event at CPAC, and we're going to do another Force

00:46:22.480 Multiplier event, and I'll announce that hopefully on Monday so we can get as many people there

00:46:27.080 as possible.

00:46:27.960 Maybe announce a couple so we want people involved.

00:46:30.620 First, I, once again, I really want to thank Birch Gold, birchgold.com slash Bannon.

00:46:39.460 And like I said, we got the fifth installment.

00:46:41.740 I'm working on the Central Bank Digital Currency.

00:46:43.760 We got the other four, and I think it, I think it will teach you or you'll begin to understand

00:46:48.680 what, what the meaning of the prime reserve currency is, why a stable currency is so important

00:46:54.320 for a stable economy and therefore a stable country.

00:46:57.220 You'll get the whole history of that, plus a bunch of technical details about the debt

00:47:02.140 crisis and everything we have.

00:47:03.320 So make sure you go, please go check that out this weekend.

00:47:06.300 That's birchgold.com slash Bannon.

00:47:07.920 Also, Mike Lindell, great sponsor of this, of this company, a guy who's been through,

00:47:13.240 they've tried to put him through hell.

00:47:14.620 Just like Peter Navarro, Mike Lindell's not in prison, but of course they're trying to

00:47:19.200 bankrupt him, just like they're trying to bankrupt President Trump.

00:47:21.480 All this has a cost to it in the, in the material world.

00:47:25.580 That's why they're trying to bankrupt President Trump, trying to put him in prison.

00:47:29.060 That's why they have Peter Navarro in prison.

00:47:31.280 Why they want to bankrupt Mike Lindell, the pressure that my pillow's on is, is incredible

00:47:37.360 pressure.

00:47:38.280 Incredible.

00:47:39.220 If you saw behind the scenes of what they've done to him, debank, deplatform, take his

00:47:44.300 processing away, all of it, make it harder to, to actually make the product, cut vendors

00:47:48.860 off.

00:47:49.260 It's cut off all his access.

00:47:50.840 But when it's a spiritual war, they're going to fight in the temporal, or they're going

00:47:56.520 to fight in the material world.

00:47:58.260 And they have no constraints.

00:48:00.000 That's one of the things about a spiritual war, the demonic opponents have no constraints

00:48:04.420 and will do anything to destroy people.

00:48:07.260 That's just, you have to, that's an entry level understanding you have to do if you're

00:48:12.960 going to be in this fight, that you're a combatant and they consider you an enemy combatant.

00:48:17.260 And as an enemy combatant, you have to be taken out, you have to be suppressed, you have

00:48:22.020 to be debanked, you have to be deplatformed, you have to be, as Rupert Murdoch so lovely

00:48:26.540 put it in that email to his staff, made a non-person, made a non-person, where they

00:48:33.300 try to make President Trump a non-person.

00:48:36.720 I don't think it quite worked out for them, or at least it didn't work out from the way

00:48:41.020 that they thought.

00:48:42.860 I really want to thank everybody.

00:48:44.780 Natalie, I want to thank Joe Allen.

00:48:46.680 Of course, the team at Real America's Voice, the great team in Denver, and particularly

00:48:49.940 the team in Denver that puts on, helps us put on the Saturday show and the specials.

00:48:53.900 I know I'm all over those men and women all the time, but it's in a spirit of making it

00:48:59.660 better.

00:49:00.000 They are super hard workers.

00:49:01.820 And with our own production team, just, I think, give an extraordinary product.

00:49:05.500 I tell people all the time, I'll match our product up against any news organization

00:49:09.480 in the world.

00:49:09.920 BBC, PBS, New York Times, Washington Post, smarter, tougher, more on top of things.

00:49:16.680 And able to curate the signal from the noise.

00:49:19.780 And that takes a team to do it.

00:49:21.240 Just don't think it's me sitting up here yammering on in front of a microphone.

00:49:24.760 That's the French porch of it all.

00:49:26.900 But it's an apparatus, not a vast apparatus.

00:49:29.700 It's a relatively small, gonzo apparatus.

00:49:34.520 But we're very proud of it.

00:49:35.460 We're very proud of what it's been able to do.

00:49:38.040 We're going to leave you.

00:49:39.100 This is Mozart's Requiem.

00:49:40.660 Not actually religious music, but I think on one level, quite, quite religious and quite

00:49:46.260 spiritual.

00:49:46.780 It's the Requiem.

00:49:47.500 And I think one of the most beautiful and moving pieces of music ever written in that

00:49:52.660 civilization that we call the Judeo-Christian West.

00:49:55.860 A civilization that's provided more thinking and art and analysis and objectivity.

00:50:04.740 It's taken man to the moon.

00:50:06.400 The study of the deepest, the darkest, deepest reaches of science.

00:50:12.620 The most hardest of science.

00:50:15.080 Knowledge, human knowledge.

00:50:16.300 Knowledge, it's a civilization to be quite proud of and to make sure that we're not there

00:50:21.100 when it collapses, of which our sociopathic overlords want, because we're going to leave

00:50:28.400 you with a Mozart's Requiem, some beautiful art that you go about your business on a on

00:50:34.300 a holy on holy Saturday in the year of our Lord, 2024.

00:50:37.420 We will be back.

00:50:38.840 Do a replay of this tomorrow in Real America's Voice.

00:50:41.020 We will be back on Easter Monday, live, 10 a.m.

00:50:44.920 Eastern Daylight Time, when once again, you will be in the war.

00:51:11.020 Thanks for listening.

00:51:28.620 CHOIR SINGS 0.64

00:51:58.620 CHOIR SINGS 0.64

00:52:28.620 CHOIR SINGS 0.64

00:52:30.620 CHOIR SINGS 0.64

00:52:32.620 CHOIR SINGS 0.64

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Bannon's War Room - March 30, 2024

Episode 3502： A WarRoom Easter Special： Descent into Hell Cont.

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