On today's show, host Stephen K. Bannon is joined by Rep. Andy Biggs (R-VA) and Rep. Steve Israel (D-NJ) as they discuss the latest in the Joe Biden scandal and whether or not he should be impeached.
00:01:07.580It's Wednesday, 12 June, in the year of our Lord, 2024.
00:01:11.320History was just made moments ago on the floor of the House of Representatives.
00:01:15.060Natalie Winters will co-host for me from Palm Beach.
00:01:17.680We've got Congressman Andy Biggs alive from Capitol Hill.
00:01:21.840Congressman Biggs, walk us through what just happened.
00:01:25.480What just happened is most Republicans, all but one Republican voted to hold Merrick Garland,
00:01:31.640who's the Attorney General of the United States of America, in contempt of Congress for failure to respond to the subpoena.
00:01:39.660Even after we gave him every benefit, every break, three committees subpoenaed him, and he basically thumbed his nose at us.
00:01:49.580We had a hearing, and he refused and acknowledged that he was not going to give us the documents, the evidence that we had requested multiple times.
00:02:07.500Okay, this is only the third time in the history of this republic this has ever happened, that Attorney General's ever been held in contempt of Congress.
00:02:15.160Let's go back to the basics, because you've been on this kind of from the beginning.
00:02:19.400What is the big deal about this tape, and why are they making such a big deal about holding them back?
00:02:26.680Why have they decided to draw the line in the sand against the Republican House, which you guys have been pretty amenable to them up until now?
00:02:42.300Special Counsel Hurt interviewed Joe Biden and also interviewed Joe Biden's biographer.
00:02:51.340The transcript, they gave us the written transcript.
00:02:54.080We wanted the audio, because Mr. Hurt, the nub of what he said is Joe Biden committed crimes.
00:03:01.580He committed crimes by taking illegally classified information when he left the White House after his vice presidency.
00:03:08.920He had them all the way back to the time he was a U.S. senator for almost 50 years ago, brother.
00:03:13.520And so he had those, and then not only did he wrongfully have those, he actually disclosed still classified documents to his biographer and told his biographer they were classified.
00:03:28.880So Hurt actually had every element to prosecute Joe Biden for.
00:03:36.120However, Mr. Hurt decided that he wasn't going to prosecute or file charges because he said Joe Biden's memory was faulty and he would be sympathetic to a jury because he would seem like an old man with a faulty memory with good intentions or whatever.
00:03:53.840So we, Liz, we look into whether he should be impeached, Joe Biden should be impeached for that and other things.
00:04:03.960And also, when we're looking to oversee to say, well, is that the appropriate remedy and is that the way that special counsel should conduct an investigation of a sitting president, that became, we have that authority under the Constitution to actually acquire this information.
00:04:23.000Mr. Hurt said that Joe Biden demonstrated faulty memory, but the transcript indicates that, but the audio is important because the DOJ just two weeks ago, Steve, admitted in a court proceeding that they actually edited the transcript.
00:04:44.560And the cases are very clear on this. If you've edited the transcript or they've been changed or we can find out that they've been changed, then the subpoena party, which is us, Congress, has a right to get the audio because that's the best evidence and we can determine how material your changes were and we can determine what was going on.
00:05:06.620They don't want us to have that evidence because, quite frankly, we believe that it will demonstrate two things.
00:05:13.740Number one, Joe Biden engaged in criminal conduct.
00:05:17.860And number two, that mentally he does have mental acuity problems.
00:05:23.920And so that's why it's so important for us to have this information because with those two pieces of information, we can make a determination whether to impeach, we can make a decision whether we need to legislate differently and change policy.
00:05:37.100To say this is a huge deal is to understate it because it's only the third time in the history of this republic that an attorney general, sitting attorney general, has been held in contempt of Congress.
00:05:51.560Are you saying that you need to hear the tapes because you, after reading the report and having testimony from her, you actually believe you need to hear the tapes to satisfy yourself and other members of Congress, I guess,
00:06:04.440but you're a former prosecutor that crimes were actually, you don't buy hers assessment.
00:06:11.940You believe the crimes might be committed, but you need to hear that audio tape to come to your own independent decision on that, your own independent judgment on that.
00:07:20.520You said he the Merrick Garland thumbed his nose at two or three committees already on this very topic, not even other things.
00:07:33.160There was a whole bunch of consternation of whether you were going to get the vote.
00:07:37.040And this has been like delayed a couple of weeks.
00:07:38.900Are people in the House now because of this saying, yes, we've got to hear these tapes and that they're actually an interest in going forward with a potential impeachment if the audio is as bad as you think it may be?
00:07:55.340Yeah, I think I think there is more interest.
00:07:58.080And look, I'll be the first to admit that I think that that your case, I think, is elevated interest.
00:08:05.080I think President Trump's case is elevated interest.
00:08:08.180But I think the reality that Merrick Garland basically cannot defend his decision and people understand when you say, look, we just want to hear the hear the tape.
00:08:18.740Let's let's hear what what actually was said and judge the veracity of the the script.
00:08:25.580I think people say, yeah, that's not an unreasonable ask.
00:08:30.020And so for him, for Merrick Garland to take the position that he did, he basically is saying, I don't care how rational it is.
00:08:39.600And it's it speaks to a political purpose that the Democrats are engaged in a political cover up and people don't like cover ups.
00:08:49.240I want to go back to your former prosecutor is Merrick Garland trying to stand or Jamie Raskin and his arguments today.
00:08:58.500Are they trying to take a high moral ground on some reason or is there any reason a prosecutor wouldn't normally turn it over to a supervising group or a because you have a duty and an obligation by the Constitution of oversight of the executive branch?
00:09:15.160Is there any higher moral ground that Raskin or Garland's hiding behind or Raskin's arguing?
00:09:22.000And can you see any rationale yourself being a former prosecutor just not to turn it over?
00:09:33.600Their argument, which is, I think, really bad is, I mean, Merrick Garland, they made this weird argument that if we if we put it out there,
00:09:41.320maybe somebody will get hold of it with A.I. and create deep fakes like there's no deep fakes that you could make of Joe Biden already.
00:09:49.360Then then the next thing that they're saying is, hey, we've got this deal where we sometimes we interview people.
00:09:55.200And if they think that it's going to be released, we can release a transcript.
00:09:59.540But if they think that an audio is going to be released, then they're not they're going to clam up.
00:10:03.020That's about as loopy as you can get when you think about it, because the case law on this is is pretty clear.
00:10:11.160I mean, the case that they're relying on basically said because Richard Nixon released the transcript of the audio tapes, he waived privilege.
00:10:21.160And so for them to try to make a privilege argument or to say that that they have to protect witnesses, that just that's almost nonsensical.
00:10:31.380So there is no moral high ground for them.
00:10:34.140That's why it smacks and feels very much like they're trying to cover something up.
00:10:40.580And, Mike, don't be don't be shocked if this thing goes on when they try to drag this thing out past the November election, because the last thing they want, in my opinion, is for this audio recording to be in in our hands before the election, because it would give us impetus to actually determine the validity of of the prosecutorial discretion claim made by Mr. Herr.
00:11:16.840Well, that's the deal is if he's if Merrick Garland is going to play it straight, like he said he was going to play it straight.
00:11:23.120This should go probably to David Weiss, who's who's the guy who just prosecuted Hunter Biden.
00:11:31.120But he's also the guy that gave Hunter Biden the sweetheart deal.
00:11:34.180And it's almost impossible to determine where David Weiss is on this stuff.
00:11:38.180But but that's where it should end up, where David Weiss gets it and should prosecute this, because this is a contempt case arising out of of Merrick Garland's withholding of evidence.
00:11:51.380And so at the end of the day, though, that means correct me if I'm wrong.
00:11:57.500That means was Merrick Garland, would he have to recuse himself or he'd be the overall decision maker?
00:12:04.140Don't they have to go up and run it by the guy that heads DOJ, the attorney general?
00:12:09.060Well, you would think that's what happened.
00:12:12.540But Merrick Garland has assured us that David Weiss is an independent counsel, special prosecutor and that he can operate totally independently.
00:12:21.420Now, we all view that with great deal of skepticism.
00:12:24.020Right. So the the proof will be in the pudding.
00:12:27.660Does he actually send this over to Weiss and say it's up to you?
00:12:30.940And will Weiss have the the this spine, let's put it that way, to actually in engage in a prosecution, which is why I'm viewing this very skeptically.
00:12:44.180And so this is why I've been encouraging my position is that the speaker has the authority without Congress, without even taking a vote, to appoint a special House counsel to actually engage in in a kind of a civil prosecution, if you will, of of this this contempt citation.
00:13:04.220Is this is this show us now more combative, you've been pushing, whether it's the border, whether it's DOJ, the rule of law, you've been one of the people on the tip of the spear, I think, because you're a former prosecutor to say we have to be much more aggressive in our oversight, we have to be much more aggressive in what they're doing with the rule of law.
00:13:24.700Do you think today is a signal and a signal sent to the Democrats, you guys are tired of playing happy clappy and you're going to start taking some action?
00:13:34.220I think this does. This is a shot across the bow. I think there's another big item that that myself and Gates, say Massey Burleson from Missouri, a few others we've been working on.
00:13:46.440If it comes to pass, you will hear about it in the next day or two, and it will be another shot across the bow to say we're tired of the weaponized DOJ, we're tired of the weaponized federal government.
00:14:01.880And that that's what we're pushing hard on now, Steve. And yes, the reality is we have we've sent a signal to them that we've had enough because I'm a big believer and I've told you this before.
00:14:12.860The pendulum is so far to the left right now. And it is attacking Americans of all stripes, but particularly conservatives. And when it does, it's we're not going to get back to equilibrium until we actually bring this back and impose pain on the left like they've imposed pain on conservatives and everyday Americans.
00:14:36.920And that is the way you get back to equilibrium. And by equilibrium, I mean a fair and impartial administration of the law. You can't have freedom if you don't have the rule of law.
00:14:48.880Congressman, can you hang on for just one second? Short break. We've got a couple more questions real quick.
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00:16:19.200War Room. Here's your host, Stephen K. Bannon.
00:16:22.500Congressman, just real quickly, I know everyone, you know, Morning Joe's about it every night, Rachel Maddow, they talk about, you know, retribution, revenge, all that.
00:16:38.100Just walk our audience through, because you're a pretty even-handed guy, and guys like John Yoo and Andy McCarthy.
00:16:43.760When you say the pendulum has to be brought back through action, what do you mean by that?
00:16:48.420Well, what I mean is, right now, the weaponization is so far and so manifest and spread in the federal government, and they're inflicting pain on people.
00:17:00.400And a lot of times, the pain isn't a conviction necessarily.
00:17:30.280The other way is actually to appoint a special House counsel from the Speaker's office who is ready to go out there, who is a bulldog,
00:17:39.780and will litigate this, and demand injunctive relief if necessary, basically go forward and say, look, if you're not going to prosecute it, we want it civilly,
00:19:53.780How about the 51 intel officers who lied?
00:19:56.340These are the people that we need to pull in and force to answer questions.
00:19:59.840I don't really even like the private deposition-type style interviews, where they then take a few months to slow roll the release of everything they admit to.
00:20:08.420I think we need in public hearings, sort of in the style of Anthony Fauci.
00:20:13.020But I think we actually need to send our best and ask meaningful questions.
00:20:18.060But look, Merrick Garland, I'm glad we're holding him in contempt of Congress.
00:20:22.260But it's a little late, and these House Republicans need to get their act together and actually bring about some accountability.
00:20:28.980And I think we need to make sure that we don't allow them to just sort of move the goalposts or use, frankly, what the left is using, I think, in some cases on us,
00:20:37.040these kind of limited hangout-type strategies that we've been discussing very frequently on your show,
00:20:42.680whether it's Peter Doshak or Hunter Biden, where they give the base some red meat, right?
00:20:47.100The Fox News viewers, they think it'll appease them.
00:20:49.500But let's actually roll in the same way that the Democrats do on people who defy congressional subpoenas.
00:20:55.220I think you may have a little bit of experience with that, but it just shows you the double standard going on here.
00:21:02.960Hang on, I'm going to come back to you in a second.
00:21:04.640You're my co-host for this hour to talk about the meltdown that the Rachel Maddows, they're clearly worried, right,
00:21:12.440because it's nonstop about us having retribution, you know, going after them unfairly.
00:21:17.500It was you and I at CPAC who first said, it was CPAC, where I corrected you first, and I said,
00:21:23.200Steve, it's not retribution, it's justice.
00:29:51.520We're just inches away from victory, and that's when we decided to give up.
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00:31:30.780Julie Kelly, we're blessed to have you in the nation's capital.
00:31:35.460You're actually coming for some pretty big events.
00:31:37.620Before we talk about Nancy Pelosi, what could possibly happen tomorrow, ma'am?
00:31:41.820So, as you know, the Supreme Court's term ends at the end of this month, and we are awaiting two big opinions.
00:31:50.720The first, of course, is related to presidential immunity, whether a president, former president, is immune from criminal prosecution for acts in office.
00:31:59.760That's out of the Jack Smith, January 6th indictment, so we're waiting for that.
00:32:04.560But the one I'm most looking forward to, I think, is the opinion in Joseph Fisher, and that is one of the January 6th defendants, one of 350-plus who have been charged with 1512C2 obstruction of an official proceeding.
00:32:20.340That is the post-Enron document shredding statute that Merrick Garland's DOJ, Lisa Monaco, Deputy Attorney General, have weaponized against J-6ers.
00:32:33.040And it sounded like during oral arguments on April 16th that a pretty strong majority, or at least a good majority, of the justices were very skeptical about the DOJ's weaponizing of that statute,
00:32:48.060intentionally misinterpreting the broad language in that statute to criminalize political dissent and to criminalize political demonstrations.
00:32:58.300So we could get that tomorrow morning.
00:33:05.440And, Steve, if they do reverse how DOJ has used 1512C2, this will create a you-know-what storm at the D.C. Federal Courthouse just down the street here,
00:33:18.140because you have at least 17 judges on the D.C. District and Appellate Court who allowed that count to move forward, refused to dismiss it against J-6ers,
00:33:28.260even though they knew this was not the intention of the law.
00:33:33.260And you are going to see a deluge of motions at that courthouse asking for release from prison, to vacate convictions, to drop the cases.
00:33:44.260The judges are preparing for it, but hang on, but hang on, but hang on, hang on.
00:33:51.360That's the motions and everything for these guys to get out of jail.
00:33:53.820But this could be one of the most important decisions in Supreme Court history.
00:33:58.160This is why they've been on the Supreme Court attacking them relentlessly to trim their sails, hoping if they reverse this, this will be a firestorm.
00:34:08.040You will actually – the Supreme Court will have said that not just the Justice Department, but the federal judiciary, including appellate courts,
00:34:15.500have essentially weaponized the whole judicial system against a group of American citizens.
00:34:24.080That has never happened before in the history of this republic, ma'am, or am I mistaken?
00:34:29.160No, you are correct, and I've had other defense attorneys describe it just that way.
00:34:36.180The heart of the January 6th prosecution will be ripped out if this felony count is overturned.
00:34:42.880And you're right, there's nothing that's been similar to this in American history.
00:34:49.660And it will go – speak directly to the wrongful prosecution of January 6th protesters.
00:34:57.680And it will support all of us who have been describing January 6th defendants as political prisoners.
00:35:05.040Because you will have the Supreme Court's imprimatur in terms of reversing how the DOJ and federal courts used – illegally, unlawfully used this statute –
00:35:19.040to turn political protesters, many of whom committed no other violent act, to turn them into convicted lifelong felons.
00:35:26.880And as you know, we have at least one individual, Matthew Perna, who committed suicide after he was told his plea deal for 1512C2 would result in a few years in prison.
00:35:44.340I know we talk about it over and over on this show.
00:35:47.240But these judges and the former Chief Judge Beryl Howell, the current judge, James Bosberg, they have to be held to account for what they've done to 350-plus J6ers.
00:36:01.040And the whole concept, the American judicial system.
00:36:05.100And President Trump is charged with this, too, correct, ma'am?
00:36:09.020This represents half, two of the four counts in Jack Smith's four-count indictment against Donald Trump for January 6th.
00:36:15.360So this could have repercussions all over the political spectrum.
00:36:20.120And people are telling me, Chuck, and we'll get to this later at another time, but Chuck, and it's all bound.
00:36:24.520If it's got to be October, she's going to go.
00:36:26.020It's out of control, and that's why this decision of Fisher is so enormous.
00:36:29.120And this is why they're attacking the Supreme Court.
00:36:31.720Payoletta told you today to trim your sails on these decisions, immunity and Fisher.
00:36:38.720Real quickly, I know you've got a bunch of speeches tomorrow night, but talk to me about the revelation of Nancy Pelosi and what she said in the car on the documentary footage.
00:36:48.900Well, just think if the Fisher ruling is against the Department of Justice.
00:36:55.780And now you've got another angle of the January 6th narrative completely disintegrating, and that is, of course, blaming Donald Trump for not deploying the National Guard.
00:37:05.000And now we have Nancy Pelosi on tape, whether it was staged or not, not really sure what her motivation is.
00:37:11.760She knew her daughter was filming her.
00:37:15.100She knew that this film would be produced at some point, saying that,
00:37:20.000I take responsibility, this is what she said in the car driving from the Capitol to Fort McNair, I take responsibility for the Capitol not being secure.
00:37:29.680Now, of course, it was her responsibility.
00:37:35.560Her Sergeant at Arms, Paul Irving, and Mitch McConnell's Sergeant at Arms, Michael Stenger, repeatedly rebuffed calls for the National Guard by then Capitol Police Chief Steve Sund.
00:37:48.640So we've been told, the American people, the J6 Committee, this was Donald Trump's fault.
00:37:56.400It's actually a few individuals and agencies who were responsible for deploying the National Guard.
00:38:03.120We now know it was delayed until after 5 o'clock that day.
00:38:07.080This relates to the piece on my substack about Mark Milley and Ryan McCarthy.
00:38:11.200So this has actually created more questions about the deployment of the National Guard.
00:38:18.140And now Nancy Pelosi, knowing that she said that in the car, knowing this footage existed, House Republicans got a hold of it, and now Nancy Pelosi and MSNBC are trying to spin it.
00:38:30.540But she said what she said, and she always was primarily responsible.
00:38:35.500And the question is, why did they leave the Capitol so intentionally unsecure on January 6th?
00:38:44.200Julie Kelly, where do people go to get your substack, your tweets, the website, all of it, your book?
00:39:17.040Natalie, your thoughts, first off, you've been at this war for now a couple of three years, probably going on four years, maybe five years.
00:39:24.560The Pelosi tapes and why they're coming out now.
00:39:27.060I mean, we're in the run-up to an election.
00:39:29.260You have this massive Fisher decision that's going to come out.
00:40:54.020We know that's sort of the jugular that they always go for.
00:40:57.740But I think they know that that's not working.
00:40:59.700And frankly, I think that's why we saw this sort of shoddy attempt at a limited hangout when it came to the Hunter Biden gun conviction, right?
00:41:07.120They know that the American people are no longer falling for what could only be described as their BS, complete and utter BS, when it comes to just dismissing things as either, you know, products of Russian disinformation campaigns or, frankly, even just the D word disinformation itself.
00:41:22.840So I think that's why you're starting to see the just curious times, this kind of trickling out of information, because I think they know their old playbooks, right?
00:41:32.980The Praetorian Guard that you so frequently talk about.
00:41:36.180It doesn't really have the same effect anymore, right?
00:41:39.200You can only dismiss something as disinformation so much.
00:41:42.700And frankly, I think the appetite of the American people for this, you know, democracy drivel, right, this narrative that they've been beating into our heads for years now, I think they're realizing that it's not cutting through, right?
00:41:55.800That was sort of, I think, their second-ditch effort after all the lawfare.
00:41:59.840But I think for them, maybe even the projection is too much.
00:42:03.140You can't be the party that's prosecuting your political opponents and still, you know, standing on a shining hill and screaming about how we need to preserve and protect our democracy.
00:42:12.500So I think we're really in it—I mean, I'm pretty black-pilled, but I think we're in very interesting times where they know their old tactics are no longer working, and they know that they quite literally have to throw their opposition in jail in order to silence us, because their typical tactics have kind of fallen or make moot points.
00:42:35.800In seeing this—in seeing the tactics not work, is this also why—and by the way, I'm going to hold this, your answer, until after the break.
00:42:47.400But is this why—because, you know, as you know, we curate this, you do this every day for a living and think this thing through on the information warfare side.
00:42:56.000I've never seen a level of fear that you can see in these people now.
00:43:00.480From Rachel Maddow being—I'm going to be thrown in jail, to AOC, to Comey and McCabe as deputy, I mean, mourning Joe, every—it's nonstop.
00:43:12.080I know part of it is to say, oh, Trump's on retribution, you don't want to vote for him, but there's something, you know, it's almost like a—we call it a primal scream from a dying regime, but you can now feel it.
00:43:22.700I'm going to ask you to give us your assessment. Is that another—is that another misdirection play or something to convince voters because they won't take the disinformation anymore, or is it more serious than that?
00:43:34.800Short commercial break. Natalie's on the other side.
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00:46:59.100Well, to answer your previous question, because I think it ties in with that wonderful clip there that I usually don't trust celebrities, I guess a broken clock is right once a day, twice a day.
00:47:12.840You know, Steve, when you look at the timing of things, I think that that is one of the most important things when it comes to following the news, understanding how the left, the regime, works in narratives, right?
00:47:23.480They have a process, the wash, rinse, repeat, from the pages of the New York Times to the Washington Post to lead MSNBC.
00:47:30.120And it's not just lies, but it's more precisely, it's lies of a mission, right?
00:47:34.440And I think timing is so important to these people.
00:47:37.180You know, we always talk about pattern recognition here in the war room.
00:47:40.440And make no mistake, Steve, the day when we heard that your appeal was not going to be granted, do you know what was so interesting about the previous day?
00:47:48.560You and I were here hosting in Palm Beach, and we said stuff that we typically always say on air.
00:47:55.020Media Matters, they took the quote from it.
00:47:57.320The criminals and traitors around Biden, you should be very worried.
00:48:01.520We also led the CNN political kind of roundup daily newsletter that day.
00:48:06.780Now, that's sort of curious because we say things like that pretty frequently on this show, right?
00:48:11.020But it's interesting to me that the timing of all this seems to converge and that the day after that we come out strongly advocating that we go after these people.
00:48:20.620And I don't even like the term go after because it's justified.
00:48:25.580That you see them start to weaponize the state against the people that they know are an actual existential threat to the existing rules-based order, to the administrative state, to the swamp.
00:48:36.040Again, that's too cutesy a term, but to the permanent political class, right?
00:48:39.560And when you look at their outrage to a statement like that, the criminals and traitors around Biden, you should be very worried.
00:49:05.540They do, because they have dozens of intel officers who will weaponize their security clearances to lie to the American people with no shame.
00:49:15.220And when they're followed up by Fox News just yesterday for comment if they still stand by their signatures on that document, they said, of course.
00:50:26.740It was filed about 10 minutes ago, everybody.
00:50:29.740And I want to do a shout out to the great lawyer, Kevin Scott, all the work he's done in Wisconsin to get this thing filed today.
00:50:37.060And now the Wisconsin Election Committee or Commission, whatever you call it, is they've got to make a decision now to, which there's no other way they can not say that this recall will be on January, I mean, on July 9th, everybody.
00:51:17.080Tell this audience the blockers, like in Georgia and Wisconsin, particularly Wisconsin, because this election could come down to Wisconsin.
00:51:25.020You guys, all of our things to secure our election platforms and everything we've been doing, all the stuff that they did illegally in 2020, Robin Voss has blocked everything to make that the status quo, basically.
00:51:38.660Let's do the same stuff that went on in 2020.
00:51:41.600And he has blocked everything we've done for our party and for the grassroots and everybody, for the mega movement, everything.
00:53:15.920I want to warn you of a huge change that could be coming to our money and our bank accounts.
00:53:21.580First, think back to 9-11, shortly after the government pushed through the Patriot Act.
00:53:26.080This gave the government power to spy on innocent Americans by monitoring our phone and email and tracking our movement across the Internet.
00:53:33.580Now, Jim Rickards, editor of the independent financial newsletter Strategic Intelligence and New York Times bestselling author, is warning about a coming event that could elevate this governmental surveillance to a terrifying new level.
00:53:47.280In fact, some of the guests I've had on The War Room believe that the government will soon expand their powers to track our every move.
00:53:55.160If we say the wrong things on social media, donate to the wrong causes, buy firearms, or even vote MAGA, the government may be able to shut us out of our bank accounts.
00:54:05.400I can't say for sure if this will happen, but it's an interesting and dire warning.
00:54:11.580Fortunately, Jim Rickards, an American patriot and friend of mine, has made it his mission to educate us on what he believes is coming and how to protect yourself from the possibility of programmable money.
00:54:23.400Watch Jim's warning video now, before it's censored like I've been in the past.