NBC News has exclusive new reporting on a potential surge on the border before Donald Trump is sworn in as president. Special guest: NBC News Homeland Security correspondent Julia Ainslie joins us to talk about what she s learned about the possibility of a surge.
00:01:08.000This planning meeting that we're finding out about that Secretary of Homeland Security Alejandro Mayorkas had with his top advisers and heads of ICE and Customs and Border Protection actually took place on Monday afternoon,
00:01:19.000where they said, look, if Trump is elected, we might see a surge between when Biden leaves office and Trump comes in because there's so many immigrants who are going to think they have to come in now.
00:01:29.000So they started to look at bed space, how many people they could have at the border and whether or not the policies they have in place now that can rapidly deport people who don't apply or don't qualify for asylum could stay in place.
00:01:42.000Then, looking at the reality that we saw after Tuesday night, they're starting to ramp up those discussions even more.
00:01:48.000Right now, Mika, they're not necessarily seeing a swarm of people coming, but they're paying attention to chat groups that we at NBC are watching, too.
00:01:55.000These are chat groups on WhatsApp where smugglers advertise their services.
00:01:59.000I want to read you some of the things that they're saying on that on those chat groups.
00:02:02.000They say after the 21 of January, we'll close the borders with extreme security.
00:02:07.000These are translated texts that we have.
00:04:28.000Remember, we were talking particularly about how the State Department, the White House is going to try to ram through aid to Ukraine.
00:04:33.000We say we thought we said it was going to metastasize into DHS.
00:04:37.000And just now we're getting reporting whether it's NBC or Politico to set the stage basically on what you just heard.
00:04:44.000There is potentially a caravan looming brewing circling the drain down in South and Central America.
00:04:49.000And I think this dovetails quite nicely with the story when it comes to sort of the immigration resistance in the sense that Mayorkas is holding calls on Monday before the election plotting and planning about these alleged.
00:05:02.000De-Trump, de-Trump of what they had over the White House.
00:05:08.000So let's get let's start de-Trump of fine now.
00:05:10.000And I'm sure when Kamala Harris didn't come to the mic on Tuesday night, she was calling all her people down in Mexico saying get in while you can.
00:05:37.000That's what Mayorkas was asking his CBP boots on the ground.
00:05:40.000But when you extrapolate that out to what really is this, I think, column of anti-immigration, anti-mass deportation resistance, all those activists are now actively working as we speak to lobby DHS on two key points.
00:05:55.000One, when it comes to the detention facilities, they want absolutely zero expansion.
00:06:00.000Two, they want to shut down the existing ones, rendering the question, where are all those people going to go?
00:06:07.000But they also are working proactively to set the legal groundwork, particularly when it comes to AI and facial recognition, which is a key component of, of course, the mass deportations to try to act as a bulwark against all that.
00:06:21.000But I think that those stories together is how you get DHS going to be welcoming, potentially, I mean, you could be talking about millions, everyone, this is their last chance to enter the United States.
00:06:31.000And I think another interesting kind of just nugget in that whole story is how they know that they're coordinating these migratory movements through WhatsApp.
00:06:40.000WhatsApp, for the last two, three years, has spent millions, if not billions, of dollars into developing technology to censor misinformation coming from the right wing.
00:06:49.000Just yesterday, they actually rolled out a new feature for censoring misinformation when it comes to pictorial information.
00:06:56.000So when you link all of that together, but frankly, Steve, I think when it goes to this idea of the resistance, the Rachel Maddow stuff, I was reading in the Columbia Journalism Review, they are full-throat backing what Rachel Maddow is saying.
00:07:09.000They had a piece of indefensive resistance going through everything that she's saying.
00:07:13.000But I think why it's so important for this audience to pay attention to sort of the evolving narrative on why they think they lost this race is because depending what they identify as the variable, that will become their pivot, right, with the Democratic Party.
00:07:27.000And I think you saw in that Alex Wagner open that they will do everything they can to sort of avoid the reorientation of the political system to have to engage with the populist issues.
00:07:37.000Right. So the establishment, the elites are going to try to, I think, sort of co-opt and hold on to that resistance because the fundamental issue is right wing populism always outperforms left wing populism because they will never touch the issue of immigration like you're seeing right now.
00:07:52.000That's with Bernie Sanders. OK, let me lay out for the audience kind of what we're trying to accomplish here after the wind.
00:08:01.000There are one, two, three, four, five, six, six areas, broad areas that will be all the coverage will somehow fall within this, within these verticals.
00:08:10.000First will be exactly what happened. We'll go through demographic analysis, what drew people in, kind of the Alex Wagner, this has been building for a while.
00:08:19.000What have they been pitching? What is this populist nationalism look like? Ideologically, theoretically, how to apply to the campaign with a lot more of the analytics that came in, that have come in.
00:08:30.000Number two, we will do the, we will also focus on the House and the Senate. DeGrasse is going to join us today. We're going to go through these. We have to hold the House.
00:08:39.000We're getting some pretty good news in the Senate. I think Dave McCormick has just been called the winner in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.
00:08:44.000Of course, in Casey's people saying it's too close to call. We're getting pretty good news out of Arizona by Kerry Lake. Looks like Sam Brown may not make it in Nevada. The one in Michigan looks like Rogers is not going to make it.
00:08:58.000So the Senate, you know, could be in the 53, 54. We'll follow that. The House looks like we're going to hold it. The Democrats are still staying in its place.
00:09:06.300So the second big area is, is the House. Then we're going to get to President Trump's team. We're going to bifurcate these. One is the staff, particularly the chief of staff and who's going to be in the White House.
00:09:18.340Maybe the top eight, 10, 12 jobs. Which one of those are MAGA? Who are the rhinos? You know, what's up? Because nothing's been agreed to right now. We'll do that.
00:09:27.640Also, the administration, attorney general, secretary of treasury, all that will be will be dealing in that separately and talking about potential names, et cetera.
00:09:35.460But then it's policies and, you know, exactly what President Trump's trying to do. These executive orders are working on and we will take in there also of the policies, also this big thing that people are talking about on, hey, what happened in 20, what happened in 2020 and investigations, all that.
00:09:55.160And then the last is the resistance. And the resistance is going to be two things is, number one, is their angle of attack, their framing of coming after President Trump with a combination of color revolution plus a more activist, you know, activist resistance.
00:10:14.040Also what I call that's angle of attack, the point of contact. And I believe this is why we're starting the A block with it today, Natalie.
00:10:22.740I think the point of contact is going to be the mass deportations, right? That's going to be the point of contact.
00:10:28.520I was talking to some media people, mainstream media people this afternoon, and they go, hey, what you saw last night on Rachel Maddow, where they started with the, you know, they had some pictures of kids in cages and went back to that.
00:10:40.680And then they brought the ACLU person in. You kind of see what the playbook is.
00:10:44.880That is going to deal with, besides things happening in the outside world, the Trump agenda.
00:10:51.420As we pivot now from the massive victory, the sweeping victory, we pivot to actually how this is going to happen.
00:10:57.720And so we're going to bring the audience along in a journey.
00:10:59.940And there are going to be occasions, folks, we're going to need you to man the ramparts.
00:11:05.020First off, we need you sharing this information. You should be dealing with grace in the team.
00:11:09.420We should be breaking down clips, Kerry Donovan, Mo, all of it, to break down clips and to push this out.
00:11:15.180We need not just download the podcast, please do that, but also to share clips.
00:11:19.700We want to make these, when we put something up, we have a hundred stories we could do a day.
00:11:25.260We curate this down to what we think you need, what is helpful to this movement to focus on at the time.
00:11:31.720And so, like, we're going to go to, with Oscar Blue Ramirez, this situation on a surge across the border to make our job even harder,
00:11:40.900and the counter-mass deportations, which they already see the resistance.
00:11:44.920This is going to be their point of contact in stopping President Trump in his second term right out of the box.
00:11:50.660And so this is going to be all critical.
00:11:54.000We're going to go to Mexico next in the next break.
00:11:56.800And then at the bottom of the hour, I'm actually going to take, I think we've got time, the administration, the chief of staff.
00:12:03.200We're going to get into the secretary of treasury, the financial.
00:16:19.020Okay, every afternoon we're going through the news, breaking it down, how it fits into these different buckets.
00:16:26.300I said if he was a man of honor that Jerome Powell should resign at the exact moment that Donald Trump has announced as the president of the United States.
00:16:33.600Not only is he not doing that, he's doubling down.
00:17:10.300So, Oscar, there's this whole concept that there's going to be a massive surge to the border because people realize that they're smart to understand Biden was easy and he doesn't care.
00:17:25.880Well, sir, whether the American taxpayer doesn't believe it or not, on the day of the elections, there was a massive caravan that they left the south of the border.
00:17:33.580It was more than 3,000 people walking on the day of the elections.
00:17:37.800A lot of them were believing that Kamala Harris was going to win.
00:17:40.380But all of a sudden, everything shifted and everything changes.
00:17:43.520And on the next day, everybody was asking, what are we going to do now?
00:17:47.180Even the Mexican authorities started acting and started going to this large group and telling them, you know what, if you guys want to go back and do your process correctly, if you guys want to do the CBP1 app, if you guys want to just not continue to walk.
00:18:01.940The majority of these people, again, Steve, they're from Central America, South America, all parts of the world, Bangladesh, Pakistan, India.
00:18:09.900We had some people from the Middle East also, you know, in this caravan.
00:18:13.800So, again, you know, in the day of the election, Steve, whether you believe it or not, 3,000 people started walking.
00:18:20.580You know, people now are understanding that everything is going to change and that Donald Trump is going to come in.
00:18:26.880There's going to be a massive deportation.
00:18:28.860And CBP1 app, you know, it's going to disappear.
00:18:32.780So a lot of them, they're going to go and try to go back home or stay in Mexico.
00:18:40.780Talk to me about this, the app itself.
00:18:43.820This was even brought up at the, I think, the debate.
00:18:46.880She tried to say she pretended she never knew about it, Harris.
00:19:32.620And I think when you juxtapose that with another story coming out of NBC News just last month, seeing that one in three cameras on the southern border are inoperable.
00:19:52.460And I'm curious from Oscar's perspective, we're already hearing that, you know, the sort of 2016-style resistance is working to lobby DHS to preemptively not just shut down future detention centers, but actively the ones that are open right now essentially disband them and have them stop, cease working.
00:20:09.940I don't even know how that would necessarily work.
00:20:11.780What are you hearing in terms of the feasibility in this, you know, next couple weeks, the damage that they could do?
00:20:18.560What is the order of magnitude that you think they could potentially inflict on this country in terms of damage?
00:20:24.440Well, the thing about it is that Kamala Harris tried to move the CBP-1 app to the south order of Tapachula so they can stop the massive flow arriving into the northern borders to make it just as a smokescreen to make everybody believe that the illicit and illegal entries were just decreasing.
00:20:40.160But it is massively increasing to CBP-1 app.
00:20:43.880What we're hearing in Central and South America, it is that in the next couple of months between here in November and December, a lot of there is going to be a massive flow that is going to come in through the Darien Gap, through Central America, and ultimately through Mexico.
00:20:56.540Try to make a run for it before Donald Trump becomes president.
00:21:01.760And the cartel has been incentivized, has been growing massively right here, just a few kilometers away from where I am at.
00:21:09.160The cartel has completely dominated the part of Guatemala, smuggling, basically extortioning, kidnapping, and charging migrants between the quantities of $300, $500 just to cross a river on a water raft.
00:21:22.600So the cartel knows, a lot of international organizations know that they need to push this before Donald Trump comes into office and make it look like it's just a humanitarian issue and it's a crisis issue to make him look, you know, in a way, make it look bad, the president that is coming in that is Donald Trump.
00:21:40.520And Oscar, I'm curious, it was just last month there was reporting out that, you know, the new Marxist president down in Mexico temporarily agreed to halt the flow of migrants into the United States, I mean, that's election interference, at its finest, but I'm curious how you could see that potentially being inverted under Trump to have, you know, if they put in the safe third party agreement, I'm sure that that would sort of rework it.
00:22:03.480But absent that, could you see various sort of, whether it's global government, actual elected officials or government bodies, I'm talking the UNs, the WEFs, the NGOs of the world, sort of work to create such just a huge pile of humanity that's trying to come into the United States?
00:22:23.360Well, the first thing that needs to be done, Donald Trump did this when he was the president, he got out of the global compact on migration and that immediately enabled the United Nations, the OIMs and the UNHCRs to have power over the United States borders.
00:22:37.800We have to understand who has the power of the United States borders. It is the United Nations and these proxies.
00:22:42.520The only bad thing about it is that Mexico is in it. And the past agreement, the past administration, Joe Biden had a great agreement with the Mexican government and they were giving them millions for these mobility centers and for these NGOs.
00:22:53.360They were supposed to have power over the Mexican borders. Now everything can change. So the first thing that they need to do, get out of the global compact, stop this federal grants to all these NGOs that are giving them money on the Mexican side and secure the border.
00:23:06.740And just, I said this on past broadcasts, Natalie, this is diplomatic extortion. The Mexican government knows about this, that a new administration was going to come and all of a sudden you have four caravans in less than one month before the election.
00:23:21.040So they know that this can be formulated as a way to pressure the new administration to say, if you want me to stop this, we need more funds to stop it.
00:23:31.300Explain to the audience just one more time. You've done it when you've been there and gap in other places, but the global compact on migration.
00:23:37.620Why do you say, why is that important? What is it? Who controls it?
00:23:41.620And why do you say that gives foreign or the United Nations and foreign countries control over the American border, sir?
00:23:49.060The global compact on migration gives the ability to migrants to cross through non-ports of entry and to arrive and to claim asylum and refugee through non-ports of entry.
00:23:57.840That's basically what has been happening. It started in Europe and now you see it on the West.
00:24:01.820It was brought on the West from Barack Obama and it was just completely eradicated when Donald Trump became president.
00:24:08.220It is extremely important to get out of it and why they have control of the United States border is because before, Steve, the actual border patrol had the ability to detain and deport and what it was, illegal entry.
00:24:20.160Now, every migrant that enters to a non-port of entry or to an open border gap, it can easily upload his hands and say asylum and refugee and they need to be processed under international treaty.
00:24:31.520This international treaty, it is the global compact on migration.
00:24:34.480That is the reason why you have all these proxies that they're working on the United States border, all these NGOs, and a lot of them, they have been caught red-handed working with the organized crime, knowing the statistics and geographics.
00:24:47.420It's where the cartel, it is smuggling them so they can receive them, process them, and just use the border patrol as an Uber.
00:24:58.080Walk me through the Biden regime's position right now, the real stuff, what you really think's going on.
00:25:07.240They intend to actually make sure these people are returned or at least they're in some place that President Trump, when he takes over on January 20th,
00:25:15.440or do you actually think they're working towards trying to maximize the number of illegal migrants that get here between now and the 20th, sir?
00:25:28.040She said that illegal entries and illicit entries to non-port of entry have decreased.
00:25:31.520Yes, but the CBP-1 applicants have increased into the hundreds of thousands, you know,
00:25:36.800and she has opened more of these CBP-1 app cities in Mexico.
00:25:40.820This is why she was sending millions of dollars to the Mexican government.
00:25:44.120How it can happen, in the next couple of months, it's going to exacerbate.
00:25:48.140But when Donald Trump takes power, this is what is going to happen.
00:25:51.720A lot of the protests, they're going to happen on the side of Mexico.
00:25:54.480You're going to have a lot of these international organizations, all these NGOs,
00:25:58.960all these progressive mercenary activists coming over here to Mexico and protest continuously on every pedestrian port of entry and every vehicle port of entry.
00:26:07.340This is the reason why, when Donald Trump was president, the threat of a tariff was the most effective, effective strategy to contain and to maintain the Mexican government,
00:26:17.580to make them understand that if they continue with this, they will affect them in the economy and the automobile industry, avocado and beer.
00:26:25.440And if they do that again, believe me, Steve, this is going to decrease.
00:26:28.680It's not only to help Mexicans with the organized crime and the cartel, it is going to increase the business of the borders and also is going to have a massive control and every border in the south to connect with Guatemala
00:26:37.660and the organized crime and the trafficking that continues into the country.
00:26:46.840Todd's been texting me the last couple of days, showing me this.
00:26:49.300We just we had to do so much of the current politics.
00:26:51.200We couldn't get to it. But this is folks understand that they're going to try to cause total chaos here to try to maximize the number of people come across
00:27:01.940because they understand the point of contact coming out of the gate of the resistance.
00:27:06.920And when I say the resistance, I mean the left wing resistance to Trump is going to be the mass deportations.
00:27:11.820Oscar, what is your what's your social media, brother?
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00:29:27.100As we have been saying, Susie Wiles, the co-campaign manager, is likely the frontrunner for that position.
00:29:33.000That's what we were told at this time.
00:29:34.340And my colleague Steve Contorno is learning from a source close to Wiles that she is up for this job, that she is interested in taking the chief of staff job, but not without some conditions.
00:29:45.560In fact, this source told Steve that the clown car can't come at will to the White House.
00:29:52.520That was one of the conditions that Susie Wiles had.
00:29:54.800Now, just to keep in mind here, Wiles, one of her main jobs on the campaign trail was knowing that she couldn't control her candidate, but trying to control everything around him.
00:30:04.240And that meant trying to keep people, certain specific people who are controversial, who could cause problems to the former president, as far away from him as possible.
00:30:12.880She wasn't always successful, but now she is saying that that would be something that would be very important for her to have control over if she was to be chief of staff.
00:30:20.780One other interesting thing about Wiles is that she's really creating an army across the Republican Party on all spectrums.
00:30:27.300Earlier today, Kevin McCarthy, former Speaker of the House, somebody who had been considered to possibly be chief of staff, said he didn't want it, that Susie Wiles should do it.
00:30:36.300Charlie Kirk, pretty much on the opposite side of Kevin McCarthy, also endorsing Susie Wiles for this job.
00:30:42.180So it certainly looks as though she could be frontrunner and she could be given this job as they move forward, which would be critical for not only the transition, but obviously for the administration.
00:30:54.740So we want to make sure we don't get, you know, too in the weeds, but you need to know what's going on because personnel is policy.
00:31:03.300I think the first thing out of the box, Natalie, is going to be the White House staff.
00:31:08.140When Reince and I, we announced it was the Sunday night after Tuesday that we were announced and then other positions on Monday and Tuesday that following week.
00:31:19.240I think we're going to have the same kind of timing.
00:31:21.400I think they want to name the top 10, I would say, shortly.
00:31:25.800I don't think it'll be tomorrow, but sometime over the weekend and maybe even on Sunday.
00:31:29.960Don't ever, every time Kevin McCarthy's involved in anything, it's always a misdirection play.
00:31:35.020Kevin McCarthy's not the central problem.
00:31:48.640So Jeff Miller is the central, he was Kevin McCarthy's central lobbyist.
00:31:54.160The reason that you have the horrible debt ceiling deal and the reason that Kevin McCarthy lost his speakership for the only time in American history,
00:32:04.120I love saying that, Kevin, and rubbing your nose in it,
00:32:06.980is because of Jeff Miller and the quote-unquote lobbyist and what the lobbyists wanted
00:32:11.560because they want more and continue out-of-control federal spending.
00:32:14.240Jeff Miller is all over Mar-a-Lago and is telling corporate clients and telling everybody he's running the deal,
00:50:09.780Are you going to get on this massive voter vote ballot discrepancy in the 2024 that shows that they'll probably come up, I don't know, eight to 10 million votes short than they were in 2020?
00:50:23.200That shows the smoking gun for the big steel?
00:50:32.140When I said we've got to fix 2020 first, way back then, it doesn't mean just because this election came first, it's taken a long time, but we will never stop until we get to the bottom of it.
00:51:24.520Well, just springboarding off of that, democracy docket, Mark Elias' group is already talking about legislation that they want to put forth and been lobbying for that they think could have won them.
00:51:33.180This election, having to do same-day voter registration, automatic voter registration, and mass mail-in voting.
00:51:38.040But the buried lead saying that even if they had rolled all that out, it only would have given an additional 8 million voters, Democrats and Republicans.