Bannon's War Room - Episode 4148： A WarRoom Christmas Eve Special

00:00:00.000 And the ivy, when they are both full grown,

00:00:05.340 Of all the trees that are in the wood, the holly bears the crown.

00:00:11.760 Oh, the rising of the sun, and the running of the deer,

00:00:18.180 The playing of the merry horn, and sit singing in the choir.

00:00:25.020 The holly bears the blossom, as white as the milly flower,

00:00:32.360 And very nice, O Jesus Christ, to be your sweet Savior.

00:00:39.060 Oh, the rising of the sun, and the running of the deer,

00:00:45.580 The playing of the merry horn, and sit singing in the choir.

00:00:52.440 The holly bears, the bears, the bears, the bears, and the running of the deer,

00:00:59.780 And very nice, O Jesus Christ, to be your sweet Savior.

00:01:06.780 The rising of the sun, and the running of the deer,

00:01:13.420 The praise of the birds, to be your sweet Savior.

00:01:18.180 Okay, welcome. It's Tuesday, 24, December, 24 December, the year of the Lord, 2024.

00:01:29.140 It is our Christmas Eve special.

00:01:32.660 Love that song.

00:01:34.140 Ben Harnwell joins me as our co-host slash host today.

00:01:39.320 I'm still coming back strong from the, from AnFest.

00:01:43.280 Ben, thank you for joining us live today from, from, from Rome.

00:01:49.200 Tell me about, give me your sense.

00:01:51.180 I love, I particularly love and fond of the, like, King's College choir,

00:01:56.480 And all the, all the English music of Christmas,

00:02:00.700 Particularly during the holiday season.

00:02:02.300 That's kind of like high Victorian, high Victorian Christmas carols.

00:02:06.960 Yeah, that's right, Steve.

00:02:09.580 And you had the, the, the, the, the, the lessons and the carols.

00:02:12.400 And for many people, formally, that is the start of Christmas.

00:02:15.840 And from that point on, even the, the most pedants,

00:02:19.740 The most pedantic people in the world will wish one another Merry Christmas at that point.

00:02:24.280 Or it's not before, but after the, after the lessons and carols from King's College, Cambridge,

00:02:29.960 That's when Christmas formally starts.

00:02:32.040 You know, I, I often wonder the commercial side of Christmas taken over so strongly in the United States,

00:02:40.060 At least the run up to Christmas, cause they try to start it in October or even before Thanksgiving.

00:02:46.380 As soon as you get Christmas day, the Christmas carols go, we, we, we have a tradition here at the show.

00:02:50.880 We play them afterwards.

00:02:52.040 I mean, when I was growing up as a kid, it didn't end on Christmas day.

00:02:55.480 Christmas day was kind of the midpoint.

00:02:57.060 You still, we still, you know, did a lot of Christmas stuff, even up to little Christmas, you know, epiphany.

00:03:05.140 But that seems to have stopped here in the United States over the last couple of decades, where it just kind of, it's a hard stop.

00:03:11.700 And is that the same in Europe or does it go through more of the 12 days of Christmas?

00:03:17.080 Well, it's still obviously sort of commercialized here in Europe.

00:03:20.920 Probably less, I would say, in Italy than in my, my beloved homeland.

00:03:26.260 However, it is, it is obviously getting worse and worse as I think the, the practicing Christian element of society fades out. 0.95

00:03:35.860 And the sense of belonging kicks in, but without the actual substance of the faith to back that up.

00:03:41.700 And then, of course, you grab onto the nearest available thing.

00:03:44.120 And that's the whole, the commercialization, the tinsel and the trees and all the rest of it.

00:03:48.020 But, you know, look, up until Sunday, which is the Sunday before Christmas, that's the fourth Sunday of Advent, it's really improper to start celebrating Christmas before, before Christmas Eve itself.

00:04:01.120 And you really, you know, you're absolutely right.

00:04:02.480 You start the carols on Christmas Eve, Christmas Day, and then you carry them on up until the epiphany.

00:04:08.280 That's, that's the correct way of doing it.

00:04:10.700 If you are actually commemorating in your family, in your community, even in your own heart, the incarnation of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

00:04:20.160 You know, when I was a kid, we didn't bring the tree in until late afternoon on Christmas Eve.

00:04:28.320 That was tradition.

00:04:28.980 In fact, I don't think we got the tree until like the day before Christmas Eve, but we would never bring in the tree to Christmas Eve.

00:04:34.740 And it was decorating the tree.

00:04:35.880 It was kind of the family tradition for Christmas Eve and putting up the lights and everything like that.

00:04:40.560 But then we would go to Midnight Mass and come back and have a little celebration and then get up early in the morning, the crack of dawn, and go at it.

00:04:48.880 But it was, it was really Christmas Eve forward.

00:04:52.380 Is, tell us about Christmas in Rome.

00:04:55.300 You're there, you're a transplanted Englishman.

00:04:57.760 What's Christmas in Rome like?

00:05:00.900 Like everything in Italy, it's family orientated.

00:05:04.300 You know, from the, from the, from the Vigilia, which is Christmas Eve, you have a huge, many families will have a larger dinner on Christmas Eve than they will have on Christmas Day itself.

00:05:16.980 That sort of tends to, and you find a lot of people who will go to church as well, even to, to, to Midnight Mass on, on, on Christmas Eve, even though technically it might not necessarily start at midnight.

00:05:26.600 It might be brought forward by an hour or two, depending on the parish.

00:05:30.020 You'll, you'll go to those and the churches will be full and there'll be a lot of young people there.

00:05:33.820 But that's clinically generally Sunday by Sunday, Steve, you've got a lot of young people as well, um, coming to church on mass, uh, to mass on Sunday, which is pretty much not the case, um, in the UK.

00:05:49.000 Because Chris, practicing Christianity still has, it still has a large part to play in life here, Steve.

00:05:55.600 Um, probably, probably because the Vatican's here, the home of the Catholic Church.

00:05:59.300 Um, and the Pope is really in and of himself, almost like a, a, a, a secondary head of state, the president of Italy, the president of the public has a much minor role.

00:06:10.280 Uh, so because of the presence of that, uh, the role of Catholicism, even if it's, if it's, even if it descends into a form of popular paganism at times, it's still, uh, quite surprisingly vibrant, uh, where it isn't in, in, in, in, in the UK, which is so secular now.

00:06:27.700 Now, that's had a, um, it's had a, uh, with the war going on in, uh, in Israel and around the Middle East, of course, in Bethlehem, a very, uh, a very low-key, uh, Christmas there for, this is a second or third year in a row, maybe even fourth year in a row.

00:06:46.340 Is that not, not correct?

00:06:47.400 Yeah, I think February's, uh, coming up to the third year anniversary, February 20, 25.

00:06:55.940 Yes, and so the, uh, there's been a, the, the, in Bethlehem, it's been, you know, traditionally over, I shouldn't say traditionally, you know, 10, 20, 30 years.

00:07:04.760 You're starting to get, you've had more pilgrims go.

00:07:08.820 I know a lot of people from the U.S. have gone and tried to, and really been very moved by Christmas in Israel, Christmas in Bethlehem.

00:07:15.660 Um, but that's been really shut down because of these wars, has it not?

00:07:20.320 Yeah, it has, has, Steve.

00:07:21.920 Um, obviously there's, uh, the, the whole of the Holy Land has descended, um, into a sort of a military state.

00:07:29.160 And I don't want to get into the politics of this, uh, uh, at, at this time and, and, and give any suggestion of taking sides on that.

00:07:36.560 But the Christians have had a tough deal.

00:07:39.780 And not only since the, the Hamas invasion on the 7th of October of last year, Steve, you know, Christians, you know, I know a lot of people who, who've been going, especially recently, they've said that they're being spat at, um, and they're not being particularly welcomed.

00:07:54.960 And that's not by the Palestinians because, of course, there is a proportion of the Palestinian community, which is Christian.

00:08:01.080 Um, so there's, there's, there's, there's a, there's a deeper story going on in there, in the Holy Land, which doesn't really break through, uh, into the mainstream media.

00:08:11.960 Uh, Ben has got, got some fascinating guests, uh, from Europe, uh, today, uh, that he's going to, uh, address.

00:08:18.580 Also, tomorrow will be the combat history of Christmas.

00:08:21.100 I think this is the 12th, 13th, 14th year in a row that I've done this, starting at Breitbart Radio with Patrick K.

00:08:27.460 O'Donnell, uh, not, um, Raheem always does Boxing Day for us.

00:08:33.360 He's done it for the last, I don't know, three or four years did it for me over at Breitbart Radio also.

00:08:38.540 And then, um, Dave Brat's going to be with me on Friday and maybe even again Saturday.

00:08:43.580 We're going to talk about the end of the year roll-up to our end of the year coverage on Monday and Tuesday.

00:08:48.180 But I think there we're trying to plan on having a number of Christian voices talk about.

00:08:53.160 And, of course, we're going to be breaking news on all the politics.

00:08:56.680 The, quite unseemly that they decided to drop the Matt Gaetz situation over the, uh, over the Christmas holidays.

00:09:03.980 But, hey, you've got to do what you've got to do.

00:09:05.820 So, um, Ben, I know you watched AmFest from afar.

00:09:09.940 Give me your assessment.

00:09:10.800 I haven't had a chance to catch up with you.

00:09:12.580 I know we were texting a lot during the, during the event itself.

00:09:15.420 What's, what's your takeaway from, from AmFest to really, uh, go through the end of the year?

00:09:21.660 It's great, Steve, to see President Trump.

00:09:23.700 And I, I, I think your speech also was fantastic.

00:09:25.980 Um, but it's great to see President Trump, I think.

00:09:29.800 So, and this was his first, uh, if I'm not, if I'm wrong, I think this was his first speech since, uh, being elected president.

00:09:37.040 Um, and it's good to see him being so, throwing down so far, so hard, um, and, and in, during the whole of the, the, the, the conference's attention to the first 24 hours, uh, that will take place on January the 20th.

00:09:51.900 You know, because there had been, you know, you, you see certain signs and you don't quite know what the tenor of this second administration is going to be.

00:09:59.380 You can look, you can look at the, the leaves on the teapot and try and draw different patterns out of it.

00:10:04.460 But, but the flow down, um, on the deportations, uh, and everything else, I think was pretty good.

00:10:10.940 Very, very comfortably lapped up.

00:10:12.700 And it is interesting seeing, Steve, the, the world's media's attention to this, um, and how they're starting to adjust to the new realities.

00:10:22.220 Specifically, Steve, I want to make this point.

00:10:24.600 Um, some of the more intelligent voices coming out of the Democrats realize now that their strategy of just painting President Trump and this show and anyone else associated with a MAGA movement of fascists is, is, is no longer going to work.

00:10:40.320 Um, because this, this movement has been making serious proposals.

00:10:44.700 The regime attempted to deflect from those, um, those proposals and those issues that MAGA has been raising by just smearing.

00:10:53.480 And the American public are no longer being, uh, convinced of that.

00:10:57.560 I would say they've never been convinced of that, uh, by the way.

00:11:00.300 Um, but, but watching AmFest, watching the media coverage of that, I think it's, it's, you know, look at that, that, that, that, that Roe Canna, for example, the tweet that he put out.

00:11:09.100 Um, look at the, the, the, the, the, the, the in-depth, uh, interview they did on you in New Statesville, which is the intellectual magazine, um, of the left, the historic magazine in, in the UK.

00:11:20.060 They're now saying they have to engage with what this movement stands for.

00:11:23.780 And, of course, on the terms, Steve, I think, uh, you'll be pleased to hear this on, on, on your terms, that they're now realizing they have, uh, 10 years too late, but they have to come, uh, and bring some serious proposals to the table themselves.

00:11:37.400 Because the, the, the dismissing in terms of pejoratives, um, is part of the reason they were so definitively rejected in November.

00:11:48.440 Wow. Incredible. We'll get, hopefully, and get into that new statesman.

00:11:51.380 And, well, Ben and I will get into it even deeper the end of the week.

00:11:55.340 They're just one of the most intellectual magazines out there in politics, had a, just incredible piece about the war room and about, uh, kind of our populist nationalist beliefs.

00:12:03.840 But, I don't want to say they've raised the surrender flag, but they're clearly saying that, uh, we're kind of driving the discussion.

00:12:10.040 It'll be, uh, very powerful.

00:12:11.520 Real quickly, Ben, the WHO reported this morning that President Trump's already got his team working on immediate withdrawal on the afternoon of the 20th of January.

00:12:20.500 We're going to be going through a whole laundry list and kind of a drumbeat of what President Trump's going to do.

00:12:24.420 But, uh, quick, quick thoughts about that in your favorite town, Geneva.

00:12:29.800 Yeah, well, I, I saw that.

00:12:30.980 I, I think it was, it was, it was a couple of days ago, this, this first broke out into the press, Steve.

00:12:36.120 Um, that was something else, I, I, I think that off the back of Amfest, this declaration, first 24 hours, again, coming back to this point, this is, this is putting the world, putting the United States on alert that this administration means business.

00:12:49.100 And one can only hope, Steve, that withdrawal of the WHO, the World Health Organization, and the middle finger that that will give to Ted Ross, um, will be the start of many other.

00:13:00.980 Withdrawals by America on the, the, the, all the corrupted apparatus of the international rules-based order. 0.77

00:13:07.540 And I would add on to this point, Steve, I would like to see somehow, and I don't know if it's, you can make it easier if, if America withdraws or not, but I would like to see, I'd like to, you know, difficult, because of diplomatic immunity and the fact that it's, see, it is in Switzerland.

00:13:22.860 But I want to know what Ted Ross, Ted Ross was doing back in the early days of this pandemic.

00:13:27.960 What did they know?

00:13:29.240 When did they know it?

00:13:30.320 And when did they agree to start lying to the American people?

00:13:34.760 Okay, hang on for a second.

00:13:36.000 We're going to take a break.

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00:14:17.320 Okay, we're going to leave you with some great Christmas music.

00:14:19.780 Ben Harnwell will return after a short commercial break.

00:14:24.360 We'll be right back.

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00:16:10.980 welcome back folks um so i'm going to be taking over the the hosting of the rest of the show

00:16:31.120 um and we've got a great show for the next uh hour 45 some new guests uh some old faces and the way

00:16:39.680 we're going to do it is like this because tomorrow uh we're celebrating christmas day i was thinking

00:16:45.140 what better way to do this um than to talk about our own private lives in one capacity and also the

00:16:54.240 wider public sphere another what if to pick i'm gonna ask the guests what what to pick an example

00:16:59.780 of something that they most closely think was the action of god acting in human affairs and then and

00:17:06.660 then also the same question uh for themselves i'm going to start off with this um as i say we've got

00:17:13.420 some catholics on the show some protestants on the show but um i'm going to start off with my answer

00:17:17.980 to this and that's the only time i'm going to talk about myself for the rest of the show um with

00:17:22.580 regards to the the the public aspect i most consciously think i can see the hand of god

00:17:31.020 uh when president trump was shot in the face i think probably quite a few of the guests might go for

00:17:37.600 that one as well shot in the face just a few million millimeters away uh from death we don't do

00:17:44.400 to do the gory uh counterfactuals of how that might have played out um but i think that was a direct

00:17:50.720 supernatural event as far as i'm concerned um with regards to my own personal life you know i i haven't

00:17:59.240 really mentioned this that much on the show though we did something back in march but i i came to the

00:18:04.540 conclusion of a number of uh legal cases against me uh three separate cases but the criminal cases

00:18:11.340 after three or four years ended in march march the 7th um and i had been praying uh up until the very

00:18:19.180 end i i the prosecution were trying to get me into prison for a year for 12 months uh up until the

00:18:25.700 very moment the judge announced her sentence italy it doesn't have juries for most of 99 of its cases

00:18:31.920 so it simply depended on on the judge um and that was obviously a big thing for me and i've been praying

00:18:37.840 for that uh uh for four years really um and the the consequence of praying every day every morning

00:18:46.800 and i still do by habit i go into the local church and start my day just with a few prayers but the

00:18:53.220 the consequence of that folks is that by the time the sentence came around even though it could have

00:18:58.460 been uh very bad for me personally i pray i obviously prayed to be acquitted but more than i prayed to god

00:19:05.520 to give me a sense of assurance that things would be okay however it went and i did get that sense of

00:19:12.120 assurance so this is like i'm just talking about me personally in my own personal lives but i'm very

00:19:16.660 grateful to god for that um and the reason i thought this would be a topic to discuss here on on our

00:19:23.680 christmas eve special is because christianity it's not really i mean it is a philosophy um but it's also

00:19:30.680 a set of religious beliefs supernatural religious beliefs and the point about that is you have you

00:19:36.980 can have the rules and you can say what you like about the rules you don't like them or you like

00:19:41.240 them i love them but some people think they're a bit constraining but the point is is that the whole

00:19:46.420 point the whole focus of god's revelation um to mankind was incarnated here in human history in

00:19:55.340 bethlehem um so christianity is not an abstract religion it's a very concrete particular religion

00:20:01.800 and that's why i thought i i would ask all the friends i've asked onto the show today i know are

00:20:06.840 christian so um i thought this would be a great way to talk about this um with the war impossible just

00:20:12.760 to say how our lives have been changed um because of the very real presence of god my first guest then

00:20:21.180 ellen kruger fantini the editor of the european journal an old friend she's been on quite a few

00:20:28.280 times uh when i was guest hosting over the the four month period ellen welcome back onto the show 0.97

00:20:33.700 can i start with you then please just ask you perhaps to to give your your thoughts on on the

00:20:39.000 opening question is there anything in the past 12 months where you could say yeah i think this was god

00:20:43.040 acting in uh the affairs of man hi ben merry christmas um yes absolutely uh and even though

00:20:53.120 i'm the first guest i thought maybe i'd get the first crack at this question but uh we do have the

00:20:58.340 same answer that miraculous split second um when uh trump turned his head and wasn't murdered in front

00:21:08.220 of the world um that miraculous split second is my pick uh not just because um it was saving a man's

00:21:18.000 life but because of all of the things that happened after that including of course his election and

00:21:25.040 uh i am based in europe i'm here in vienna austria and um there are ripple effects uh of the trump

00:21:33.740 election that we're going to feel i think we're already feeling here in europe um certainly uh he's

00:21:41.280 got a chance to set things right in america but not just for america for the world for peace for

00:21:48.040 stability and security across the world um i think his election will also embolden embolden european

00:21:56.320 uh and finally take uh take control over the massively uh really frightening security situation uh obviously

00:22:08.540 your your viewers will know about the recent uh christmas market attack in germany in magdeburg

00:22:15.820 um there are 20 000 people demonstrating in magdeburg uh about what happened and the alternative for

00:22:25.900 germany the afd um they're the ones who are addressing this this problem so i think there's a glimmer of

00:22:34.600 hope i think trump's election really offers that um you're very interesting that you that you tie in

00:22:42.320 the ripple effects of what happened in butler pennsylvania the ripple effects that you're seeing

00:22:47.160 we're seeing now in in europe um staying with austria one moment i mean it's clear that the

00:22:52.760 the afd has been given a great philip uh recently uh not only because of the the market um the

00:23:00.880 magdeburg market uh catastrophe uh massacre uh but also elon musk's thrown his weight behind

00:23:08.800 tell me something you know in austria however the fpo the the freedom party would be the closest

00:23:14.340 analog i think to the afd in austria is there a similar momentum there do you think can you see

00:23:20.840 well um certainly the um the the freedom party the fpo did very very well in the elections um and in

00:23:32.720 fact should be forming a government but instead it looks like it's going to be what i like to call the

00:23:39.000 coalition of losers which is um all the other parties who didn't do as well as the fpo because

00:23:45.540 they've been basically firewalled out of uh being able to form a government so i don't know what it's 0.62

00:23:53.180 going to take for austria to get it together i certainly hope uh that it doesn't take yet another

00:24:00.640 tragedy that the country's had several uh relating to violence and mass migration but that's the issue

00:24:09.120 on everyone's minds would you say that probably the fpo has a slightly more difficult slightly steeper

00:24:17.420 incline to to overcome because the successive austrian governments haven't been as crazy as uh as the

00:24:26.260 successive german governments well i i suppose i suppose so i mean i guess if it takes being as bad as uh

00:24:37.240 the the the coalition governments we've seen in germany um then that's what it takes but i i would say

00:24:44.080 that the the coalition governments here in austria have been completely ineffective when it's come to

00:24:51.980 uh security certainly migration which are interrelated topics of course um i'm afraid that if

00:25:00.900 um if we don't see something extreme uh nothing's going to change here so yes it's a it's a steeper

00:25:08.600 incline partly because we haven't had a recent horrible tragedy um we've got three minutes left

00:25:15.980 ellen uh i know that a couple of days ago i saw the statement on behalf of the european conservative

00:25:20.820 that you're revamping both the the print edition but also the online edition perhaps just say a bit about

00:25:26.340 the the mission the work of the european conservative i declare an interest folks that i

00:25:31.520 do have a uh a titular post um in in in the um on the organogram it's and i'm absolutely delighted

00:25:40.600 to support it it's doing fantastic work saying stuff that very few people are uh just before however

00:25:46.740 you just say that do you have anything to say about the second part of the question about the presence

00:25:51.140 of god um in your own life well sure i mean i actually it's it's somewhat related to talking

00:25:58.060 about the european conservative uh which is that it's been a year of massive growth for the project

00:26:05.560 and the presence of god has been revealed in in the people we've worked with so because our mission

00:26:14.400 really is about saving the west saving western civilization um we've attracted good selfless people

00:26:22.520 who are in it for the fight the in support of the common good and they are in it for the long haul

00:26:28.700 um and this year we've seen it more than ever so i think um my answer is that uh in the faces of the

00:26:38.700 people who've been working with us um god has revealed of course because christ infuses all of

00:26:44.940 these things beautiful response ellen just then quickly one minute and then before you go just say

00:26:52.620 quick a few words then perhaps about the revamp uh the website where do people go and i strongly

00:26:58.420 recommend that they do they're putting out uh you guys are putting out sort of great articles uh every

00:27:03.560 single day yes so uh the project will have two divisions we'll have the online division which

00:27:10.580 will continue with great news commentary analysis and then the print edition which is where we started

00:27:18.760 we combine art beauty culture and politics uh we're going to be growing you can look for us

00:27:26.300 uh we'll have a landing page on the europeanconservative.com website uh do follow us on uh twitter and facebook

00:27:34.320 uh you can get all the news about our updates and um where to find new content and find out about

00:27:41.960 our uh next steps and the social media handles ellen yes uh so we're um at eurocon official um on facebook

00:27:53.080 uh on twitter excuse me and you can just look for the european conservative on um on facebook

00:27:59.180 we're also on getter uh european conservative you can find us easily

00:28:03.220 ellen fantini many many thanks for coming on the show wish you a very merry christmas

00:28:09.480 speak to you soon god bless

00:28:10.860 welcome back folks so the next guest is a new friend of the war room

00:28:18.540 uh anja hoffman who is the director of the observatory on intolerance and discrimination

00:28:23.880 against christians in europe now just to say a bit of uh a bit about the observatory um

00:28:31.560 okay when i worked in the european parliament over 15 years ago when i first worked there um

00:28:38.600 a guy called david fieldsend who was basically the dean of all the pro-life uh lobbyists in the

00:28:44.780 european parliament he was on he once told me i i asked him uh who's you know what he thinks about

00:28:51.480 our efforts because he'd been there like for decades and i and he said to me the gold standard for him

00:28:57.260 what was gudrun kugler who was then representing the world youth alliance she's now in the austrian

00:29:02.740 we talked about austria just a moment ago she's now a member of parliament in austria but he said

00:29:07.100 but david fieldsend told me that it was gudrun um and the work that she did that he thought that

00:29:12.740 she was the most um the most effective advocate for for life and and all the affiliated cultural

00:29:20.480 issues that he'd ever seen working in the european parliament gudrun then then left um the world youth

00:29:27.040 alliance and she founded this observatory uh which is a great organization found it with her husband

00:29:32.160 martin great um um work detailing the um the persecution of christians around the world so anja hoffman

00:29:41.040 welcome on to the show you're now the director of of the the observatory tell us a bit uh if you

00:29:46.860 would for our american audience why is there a need for an observatory uh against intolerance and

00:29:53.480 discrimination against christians yeah thank you so much ben for having me on the show and yes indeed 0.99

00:30:00.560 the observatory was founded almost 15 years ago when many people did not yet see the problem

00:30:06.740 of discrimination against christians not just around the world but specifically in europe so

00:30:11.900 the observatory just focuses its work which is mainly um documenting cases documenting what is going on

00:30:19.260 in terms of intolerance and discrimination against christians in europe and we try to pro to provide

00:30:27.220 reliable and classifiable data on what is happening so we're collecting on the one hand hate crimes which

00:30:35.040 means mainly um arson attacks vandalism attacks on churches but also attacks on christians on persons

00:30:41.920 and then on the other hand um the sphere of discrimination that can be that can be at work

00:30:47.800 that could be against christian politicians um recently also deep banking of christian organizations

00:30:54.100 really broad field and we want to make this these problems visible and show the structural problems

00:31:01.560 behind them and also in which areas religious freedom is being limited in europe

00:31:07.320 um tell me something because i think you guys were basically the first to come along and coin the phrase

00:31:14.740 christianophobia right mirrored on islamophobia which is part and parcel of contemporary political discourse

00:31:21.800 you'll find a lot of uh politicians and media pundits talking about islamophobia but until you guys came along

00:31:27.880 very few people spoke about christianophobia which is this obviously the same concept of of discrimination

00:31:33.960 against people because they're christian um for for again for an american audience perhaps you want you

00:31:39.960 want to say something about that is actually a thing here in europe um just give a perhaps a few examples

00:31:47.960 of of what some christians have been facing here in in europe which you know it's not um it's it's not it's not the

00:31:57.320 other end of the world to find christians being persecuted for their faith here in europe ought to 0.96

00:32:02.360 be extremely alarming yes indeed so many people assume that because christians are a majority in

00:32:09.800 europe means they cannot face discrimination so kind of discrimination is only for minorities that's

00:32:14.840 what a lot of people think and this is why this concept of discrimination against christians is really

00:32:19.640 something that people don't easily grasp and we try to make this visible and as you were asking for

00:32:25.720 examples it's it's really a broad range but something that stood out to me most in the last year were

00:32:32.760 several cases of christians who for expressing their moral convictions as christians either lost their

00:32:39.720 jobs their political careers or even were facing court trials and one of the most shocking one of the

00:32:46.760 well-known cases in this area is the case of the former finnish minister of interior and also current

00:32:53.880 member of parliament pevy rossanen who was um accused of hate speech after tweeting a bible verse

00:33:01.240 and criticizing her own lutheran church about um sponsoring the helsinki pride parade and she um

00:33:07.880 she just kind of in the tweet asked the question how do you think um this sponsoring the pride parade is in

00:33:14.200 line with what the bible teaches about this and then then she was uh being prosecuted for that and and that case was

00:33:20.840 thankfully also picked up by the u.s um international commission for religious freedom as one example of

00:33:27.480 how european governments are increasingly targeting believers for peacefully expressing their religious

00:33:35.160 views which are kind of counter the mainstream views but in a not in any way of like inciting to violence

00:33:41.640 or hatred but really just christians saying this is what i believe i believe god created human beings as

00:33:47.240 male and female for each other and by just saying that it can yeah in these extreme cases even lead to

00:33:54.200 a court case but also in the job it can have immense repercussions i think it's important to underline that this

00:34:02.680 was very very close i mean that it's happening in america i think not as to a great degree as here in occupied europe

00:34:10.200 um but this is one of the um what ellen fantini mentioned uh earlier on in the show the ripple effects

00:34:17.960 of um of the trump presidency uh i think that the fact that donald trump's going to be in the white house

00:34:23.960 for the next four years is going to put a block a total block on on any progress towards this militant

00:34:31.000 intolerant intolerance of christians in america and hopefully we'll actually start pulling it back a little

00:34:36.280 bit um pulling the culture back a bit to where it used to be um tell me something anya uh here's it

00:34:42.440 because i'm asking this to all of our guests is there anything in the past year that you might um look at

00:34:48.440 and think yeah i think this was the this was god working in human events

00:34:54.760 yes indeed i mean one of the very obvious examples has already been mentioned but if i think about my sphere

00:35:00.600 about um persecution of christians and intolerance against christians i'm just thinking of something very recent

00:35:05.560 only last week after two and a half years of court trial a mother of five and a christian her name

00:35:12.760 is roda was acquitted in nigeria for alleged blasphemy after and this is super shocking sharing

00:35:20.280 a video of a girl who was slaughtered lynched for her christian beliefs in school and she shared that

00:35:26.280 video criticizing what has happened and was then accused of blasphemy and now finally last week um

00:35:32.280 through a really major legal win um she got free and she she is now yeah in a safe place and this is

00:35:38.680 one of the ways where i see this just one example how in these cases um sometimes also in the legal

00:35:44.440 sphere there can be immense victories through god's help incredible and and anything in in your personal

00:35:52.040 life that you might want to share with the warming posse yeah one thing that really uh encouraged me

00:35:58.120 personally tremendously during this year was we work a lot with students we've produced a documentary

00:36:03.160 called self-censored which talks about christian university students all across europe they are in

00:36:09.160 a conversation with one another and talk about how to share their faith in a hostile environment towards

00:36:14.680 the christian belief that they're all experiencing and during these conversations uh with different

00:36:20.360 students that i've had um following up on this project i was so encouraged how a lot of them once you

00:36:27.000 start talking about this phenomenon of self-censorship and about being afraid to to even say you're a

00:36:33.080 christian in a public sphere out of fear this will have negative consequences once you start talking

00:36:37.960 about this a lot of young people say oh i always thought i'm the only one but now i realize there's

00:36:43.400 more people out there who have the same problem and i can actually we can actually talk about it together

00:36:48.520 and we can kind of break through the spiral of silence and start talking about a belief start raising

00:36:54.600 questions about current world view that we don't find is helpful for the human person

00:36:59.240 and they really find the courage to speak out and that's something that for me is really

00:37:02.920 a huge sign of hope for our time yeah great response anya um can you tell me something how

00:37:09.720 are the institutional christian churches the catholic church uh specifically are they how how are they um

00:37:18.600 with what you're doing are they aware of it no obviously they're aware of it i think cardinal

00:37:22.840 schoenberg has given a bit of support over the years but but generally um do you find that the

00:37:29.400 institutional christian churches and i am specifically asking about the catholic church are really giving

00:37:35.400 you the support um that this cause deserves so in general we are an independent ngo we are not funded by

00:37:45.480 a church of any kind so we always have this challenge of fundraising through private donors

00:37:50.520 but in terms of um of support when it comes to the issue i do see that there is a big support for

00:37:56.920 example from the comet say the um the bishops conference at the european union that we closely

00:38:02.280 work together with who who are very grateful for our documenting work also the the holy sea obviously

00:38:08.680 there they were presented at the oc a different uh international um organization and and they do use our

00:38:14.680 work they use our report to just get this overview and have the data to work with and down to to find

00:38:20.920 responses or to raise the issue and really raise awareness about this so so talking about the

00:38:28.360 reports that you do how many times did it come out a year i think one came out like a week ago didn't it

00:38:33.080 10 days ago i seem to remember tell me about how often it comes out and the sorts of things that that

00:38:39.160 people can find in that so our report is published every year always on november 15 or 16 around the

00:38:45.720 day of international tolerance and this um the idea of this report is to really make visible what i've

00:38:51.160 just described as areas of discrimination of intolerance against christians and we really try

00:38:56.280 to give an overview our report has three sections the first is on hate crimes very specific

00:39:01.720 government data police data on how many churches have been attacked in which country

00:39:06.520 the second chapter about discrimination against christians in the work field uh in the public

00:39:11.400 sphere as i said with banking and all these uh different issues and then a third part of our

00:39:16.840 report is uh is about really religious freedom or legal restrictions that christians are facing or that

00:39:24.760 have repercussions on christians who want to exercise their faith and there we do legal analysis of

00:39:30.040 different things happening in europe and i really recommend to take a look to get this overview and for

00:39:35.080 all those who are somehow working in the field or concerned themselves i think it's very important for us

00:39:39.480 to know in which ways different laws affect religious freedom and how to raise awareness and maybe call upon

00:39:46.360 members of parliament or the responsible institution governments to really be careful to safeguard

00:39:51.720 religious freedom when making new legislation and we've got just two minutes left just you mentioned

00:39:58.120 banking there can you just uh tell um the war in posse are people in occupied europe being debanked because

00:40:06.360 of their christian faith so we've had a um a few cases now christian organization few are speaking about

00:40:13.880 it because it's always a very sensitive issue but those who do share about it say that because either

00:40:20.600 of sharing christian views there was a pro-life organization in sweden last year who faced

00:40:25.720 deep banking there were several christian ngo's who are working in the global south who do missionary

00:40:30.680 work or support christians persecuted christians around the world who are struggling with this

00:40:34.520 because the anti-money laundering regulations have been tightened and banks are very afraid now to

00:40:41.160 work with organizations who work with abroad but there's also this world review issues apparently the

00:40:46.040 christians say because their organization is very obvious uh either involved in pro-life work or in some

00:40:52.600 other pro-family work um they have faced uh issues uh sometimes the bank doesn't admit it but it's a

00:40:58.600 very sudden cut and then it just says you did the organization doesn't align with the ethics of that

00:41:04.120 cooperation so these things uh seem to be on the rise and we're trying to look into this more and we

00:41:09.560 think it's a very important uh issue to to keep on track on it's a huge issue my my own organization

00:41:17.480 the dignitatis humane institute was debanked here in italy about three or four years ago we weren't

00:41:22.280 given any reason any explanation whatsoever just given a perfunctory email saying that our bank

00:41:28.280 account was being closed and by the way i think we had a couple of hundred euros in that account they

00:41:34.440 never they never gave it to us they cut the they shut down that account pocketed the money and there's

00:41:40.040 really very little that you can do about it and i'm very glad that you're bringing this to people's

00:41:44.440 attentions so quickly aniel where do people go 20 seconds where do people go to learn more about

00:41:49.800 the observatory on intolerance and discrimination against christians in europe our website is

00:41:55.480 intolerance against christians.eu and there you can find all recent cases our publications our reports

00:42:01.960 but we are also on social media twitter instagram facebook it's at oidac europe which is the abbreviation

00:42:08.440 at oidac welcome back folks well i'm particularly delighted to introduce our next guest he's been

00:42:18.840 on the show quite a few times over the past year also when i was guest hosting pastor john armand

00:42:23.800 true crew senior pastor john you always uh had this ability to infuse everyone whenever you come on the

00:42:29.400 show and i know you you're a great hit with the war in posse i'm going to cut in straight into my two

00:42:34.360 questions to you if you could pick an event over the course of the last year which you think uh you

00:42:41.080 can say i think this was god acting in the affairs of of man you know i can't overlook what happened on

00:42:48.360 july 13th um as a deranged human being sought to snub and take out the life of now president donald j trump 0.54

00:42:58.440 um when you think about that the bible tells us that the heart of the king is in the hands of the

00:43:07.000 lord and he turns it into whatever direction that he desires we found out on july 13th that not only

00:43:14.680 does god turn the hearts of kings but he also turns the heads of kings president trump turned his head

00:43:23.480 at the right time avoiding avoiding a catastrophic incident only almighty god can do that god turns

00:43:34.520 hearts but he also turns heads and i believe that god has ordained this time for him to lead this

00:43:42.280 country you know i was just in phoenix arizona for the amfest event under turning point usa and president

00:43:50.840 trump walked up to the microphone in the beginning and he said that today now more than ever we want

00:43:57.720 to say things like merry christmas you know in the past many presidents obama biden potentially harris

00:44:06.040 didn't want to say merry christmas but we now have a president who's not afraid to say that

00:44:10.280 i believe that president trump has been ordained for god and by god for such a time as this

00:44:15.320 perfect response pastor john um anything from your personal uh life that you would think uh that

00:44:25.560 you'd want to share with us um to which you're particularly grateful to god for there's so many

00:44:31.720 things that come to mind number one i'm thankful that over the course of this year as i've traveled to

00:44:37.400 now um 16 different school board stops this year but a total of 18 states in total i'm thankful for

00:44:46.520 my wife who held down the home who took care of the children who made it easy for me to go and to

00:44:53.240 transition and to do all of the work that god has called me to do for my children who have stood by me

00:44:58.680 as well and for many of my funders and supporters who have donated to my work through inogod.us i'm

00:45:07.320 thankful for turning point usa and dr bob who has come alongside me as well to support my efforts

00:45:14.280 in this national campaign to fight against woke tyrants at school board meetings all around the

00:45:19.480 country we're fighting against gender theory queer theory and critical race theory and we have the

00:45:25.480 opportunity to defund to defund the department of education and to send resources back to the

00:45:31.080 state and to protect our children i am gratefully and amazingly thankful for them pastor john tomorrow's

00:45:42.120 christmas day and the world will either recognize or commemorate or or pray along with the the

00:45:51.160 commemoration of the birth of our lord and savior jesus christ in the general political battle um

00:45:57.400 and i know i think i think we should we share the same view that the political battles that we

00:46:01.640 have here on earth is basically a reflection of the of what's going on in the wider spiritual battle

00:46:07.320 you know ephesians 6 12 and all the rest of it but what would you just say just in a couple of

00:46:11.880 minutes what would you just say how do you tie the the the incarnation of god himself to the the the

00:46:18.760 greater political battle that we're fighting here um in the secular world well i'm telling people

00:46:25.880 all around this country and i said this in phoenix that the election is over but the rapture the coming

00:46:32.600 of christ is pending and so we have much work to do but we cannot overlook the reason for this season

00:46:41.320 the bible tells us in john 3 16 for god so loved the world that he gave his only begotten

00:46:48.680 son that whosoever believeth on him might not perish but have everlasting life he gave us the

00:46:57.240 ultimate gift and that gift is available for anyone regardless of your past regardless of the things

00:47:04.840 that you've done christ is for you and so we can take solace in that message knowing that the birth of

00:47:13.960 christ is what brings true liberty and freedom freedom from the pain of death freedom from damnation

00:47:22.440 and access to almighty god

00:47:26.920 father john um 90 seconds excuse me um we've got about two minutes would you just um would you kindly

00:47:33.560 lead us in prayer it's christmas eve would you lead us in prayer um and give us a blessing

00:47:38.200 yes lord your word tells us that righteousness exalts a nation but sin is a reproach towards any free

00:47:47.240 people you also say in your word that you are coming back for a church without a spot or wrinkle

00:47:55.320 so god we we know today that you care for us you're concerned about us you love us and that you want to send

00:48:03.480 your redemption upon this nation mankind has rejected you but god we believe that there is revival yet

00:48:10.440 upon this land we pray for eyes to be open for hearts to be tender and for people to understand

00:48:16.920 the significance of this season we thank you oh god for smiling upon our nation and giving us a president

00:48:24.040 that will soon take office on january 20th of 2025 who has the mindset to do things that uplift the word of

00:48:32.200 god and that speak clearly to the thing that you're most concerned about we thank you and

00:48:37.320 we bless you for this time to spend with our family and friends we pray that you will be with us and

00:48:41.800 keep us in jesus name we pray amen amen father john that's very very kind of you uh before you bounce

00:48:50.760 where do people go on social media to stay in touch with your interventions yes they can go to my youtube

00:48:59.800 channel it's at r-e-v-w-u truth that's rev wu truth at r-e-v-w-u truth follow me there and i appreciate your support

00:49:16.680 father john i'm an true senior thank you very much as always for coming on the show uh uh and sharing your

00:49:24.600 particular uh unique uh spiritual insights with us as we contemplate the political events on a

00:49:30.680 day-to-day basis i take this moment to wish you a very merry christmas thank you brother john

00:49:35.480 thank you stay with thank you stay with us folks we've got a cracked hour coming up just after this

00:49:41.240 short break we've got jenny holland we've got um bob moinehan and patrick k o'donnell as well

00:49:47.640 answering the same sorts of questions as uh to the presence and active role of god in our lives

00:49:55.560 stand by folks we'll be back in two weeks after this short break don't go away

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Bannon's War Room - December 24, 2024

Episode 4148： A WarRoom Christmas Eve Special

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