Bannon's War Room - Episode 4149： A WarRoom Christmas Eve Special Cont.

00:00:00.000 On Christmas Day, I saw fresh ships come sailing, on Christmas Day in the morning.

00:00:05.500 And what was it for ships so free, on Christmas Day, on Christmas Day.

00:00:09.760 And what was it for ships so free, on Christmas Day, on the morning.

00:00:13.120 Welcome back.

00:00:14.200 Well, I'm absolutely delighted to have you on the show today.

00:00:17.180 Someone I've known for many, many years.

00:00:18.940 I've never spoken to him on the show before.

00:00:21.060 I think he's been on with Steve.

00:00:22.760 Robert Moynihan, the editor, long-standing editor, 40 years or so,

00:00:26.480 of Inside the Vatican magazine.

00:00:30.680 Bob, welcome back on to the show.

00:00:34.400 So you've been there, I think, longer than anyone else,

00:00:37.520 watching all these affairs in the Vatican.

00:00:41.800 I do have a question I'm going to come to towards the end of our chat with you

00:00:46.200 about your observations.

00:00:48.580 As such a long-standing observer, I just want to ask you what your reflections are

00:00:52.760 on the way people are perceiving the present pontificate.

00:00:57.660 But before that, as it's Christmas, Christmas Eve today,

00:01:03.000 we're obviously focusing in an Advent way, specifically focusing our expectations

00:01:10.140 on the nativity of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ tomorrow.

00:01:13.800 Bob, I wanted to ask you if there's anything in the past year, looking back on it,

00:01:18.640 whether you can say, I think this was the action of Jesus Christ in human events,

00:01:26.000 both in the public sphere and then also, if you wouldn't mind,

00:01:29.360 if there is anything in your own personal life.

00:01:33.980 Well, I want to wish you and everyone a blessed Christmas, Christmas Eve.

00:01:39.920 During this past year, it was pretty clear that our country was suffering

00:01:44.640 suffering under a type of strong delusion, which the media supported

00:01:49.780 and as many of our institutions supported, our universities,

00:01:54.240 and the misunderstanding of the nature of man, the nature of sexuality,

00:01:59.260 the nature of our identity.

00:02:01.480 As we came through the year, I think a key moment was when Robert Kennedy Jr.

00:02:07.920 threw his support to Donald Trump,

00:02:09.900 and he said that he was a Democrat as a young man,

00:02:15.960 and his father, who was the assassinated president, John,

00:02:19.340 I'm sorry, his father was the assassinated Senator Robert F. Kennedy,

00:02:25.320 running for president in 1968,

00:02:27.380 and his uncle was John F. Kennedy, the president,

00:02:30.980 who was assassinated in 1963.

00:02:33.160 And he said, my parents and my family was Democratic,

00:02:37.760 but I'm going to support Donald Trump

00:02:39.440 because the Democratic Party has clearly become

00:02:42.660 an ideological totalitarian party that doesn't listen

00:02:48.080 and imposes its thought on the American people.

00:02:52.160 I thought that was a remarkable thing for a man to do

00:02:55.900 who was from that tradition.

00:02:57.640 And after that and the election results,

00:03:01.200 it seemed as if the country was departing from a kind of lock

00:03:05.920 on its collective mind.

00:03:08.800 In my own life, I think there was the death of a dear friend

00:03:14.680 for whom we prayed,

00:03:16.640 and I continued that prayer during the past year

00:03:20.780 as a kind of nightly prayer.

00:03:23.060 And that slowly distanced me, I might say,

00:03:27.180 from the everyday life that all of us lead.

00:03:34.580 And I started engaging, in a sense,

00:03:37.080 in a nightly prayer with eternal things.

00:03:40.380 And I think it's human nature

00:03:42.160 to try to live fully in time and succeed

00:03:46.480 and keep our health and love our families.

00:03:49.700 But deep inside of us, there's a longing for what is above,

00:03:54.300 for what is eternal.

00:03:55.880 And that's happened to me in the past year,

00:03:58.620 in a way, I think, more deep than ever before.

00:04:02.720 But when I first came to Rome back in 2011,

00:04:06.980 a cynical old priest said to me,

00:04:09.820 and you're probably going to know the joke,

00:04:12.380 he said to me,

00:04:12.900 do you know why there's so much faith in Rome?

00:04:15.640 I said, I don't know why there's so much faith in Rome.

00:04:17.720 And he said, because everyone who comes here

00:04:19.920 leaves it here,

00:04:21.580 and then they go off without it.

00:04:23.860 That's not happened with you.

00:04:26.180 You've been in Rome, I think, for your 41st year.

00:04:30.880 And listening to you talk,

00:04:32.540 it's clear that your faith is as strong as it ever was.

00:04:36.180 And I know that your father was a great influence on you

00:04:38.960 in having a living, vibrant Catholic faith.

00:04:43.920 Tell me your observations.

00:04:45.960 You've been here 41 years.

00:04:47.380 I think when you found it inside the Vatican magazine,

00:04:50.540 one of your first visits was to go and see John Paul II

00:04:53.480 and present him with your first copy.

00:04:56.420 You've seen a lot of things.

00:04:57.960 Tell me, give me your reflections

00:04:59.820 after four decades in this town.

00:05:03.580 Well, at Christmastime, we're speaking about the incarnation of the word of God.

00:05:10.860 That's something spiritual, invisible, and eternal, entering into time.

00:05:17.140 The church is obviously in time,

00:05:20.040 and it's passing now through 2,000 years

00:05:23.100 with human beings who have faith,

00:05:27.620 but sometimes are very imperfect, very corrupt.

00:05:32.620 But once you realize that you have to stick with what your parents,

00:05:39.700 and really for me, my grandmother,

00:05:41.520 she stopped me one time when I was a teenager,

00:05:43.600 and I visited her in Haverhill, Massachusetts,

00:05:46.960 and she said,

00:05:48.640 have a egg and toast, Bobby.

00:05:52.580 And we talked about various things,

00:05:55.900 and she said,

00:05:56.620 one thing I want to tell you,

00:05:58.160 because I was heading off to college,

00:06:01.040 she said,

00:06:01.440 never lose your faith.

00:06:03.080 So, in a way, it's not my own choice.

00:06:07.880 It's the obedience I have to her.

00:06:10.420 And the faith is simply a belief

00:06:13.180 that something good,

00:06:15.380 that something holy,

00:06:17.240 something higher than ourselves,

00:06:19.720 is conveyed by the message of Christ.

00:06:24.120 And I would probably say

00:06:25.780 the key scriptural passage

00:06:29.300 that has always been important to me

00:06:32.840 is this one.

00:06:34.620 We hold this treasure in earthen vessels,

00:06:38.560 vessels of clay.

00:06:40.540 So, what is the treasure?

00:06:41.780 The treasure is the news of this Christmas,

00:06:44.640 and then the life of Jesus,

00:06:46.340 and then his crucifixion and resurrection,

00:06:49.120 which opens up a possibility for human hope

00:06:53.140 from time toward eternity.

00:06:56.300 And this is the treasure,

00:06:57.960 this message,

00:06:59.100 this proclamation.

00:07:01.060 And we have it,

00:07:01.900 but it's in an earthen vessel.

00:07:03.920 It's a vessel of clay.

00:07:05.880 It's mortal human beings,

00:07:08.180 and we see that in many Vatican officials.

00:07:11.460 We see it in many ministers,

00:07:14.120 people who wish to do well,

00:07:16.400 but somehow fall short.

00:07:18.060 But this is only, for me,

00:07:19.860 a further proof, in a way,

00:07:23.000 that everything that occurs

00:07:24.380 is somehow under the hand of God.

00:07:27.040 Bob, stand by.

00:07:31.420 I'll be coming back to you

00:07:32.560 in just one minute's time.

00:07:33.900 I'm going to ask you

00:07:34.600 what your words of counsel might be

00:07:36.920 to Catholics who are being

00:07:38.960 ever so slightly scandalized

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00:09:30.000 Back now with Bob Moynihan.

00:09:33.540 Bob, you know,

00:09:34.720 this is something

00:09:35.120 that we've covered

00:09:35.920 on the show

00:09:36.640 sort of repeatedly

00:09:40.860 since I've been here

00:09:41.820 over the last three years.

00:09:43.260 There are messages

00:09:44.320 coming out of the Vatican

00:09:45.420 that scandalize,

00:09:46.860 by the way,

00:09:48.120 scandalize not only Catholics,

00:09:50.260 but also evangelicals,

00:09:53.220 also Protestants.

00:09:54.580 In the four minutes

00:09:57.000 that we have left,

00:09:58.400 what words can you offer?

00:09:59.760 You've been in Rome

00:10:00.680 40 years, right?

00:10:03.400 Whatever,

00:10:03.880 half your life.

00:10:05.540 What can you send back

00:10:07.880 to America

00:10:08.700 about what you're seeing here

00:10:10.460 to give a word of sustenance?

00:10:12.440 I think we are engaged,

00:10:15.960 of course,

00:10:16.420 in a continual spiritual battle.

00:10:18.820 We're trying to find

00:10:20.200 the true,

00:10:21.080 the good,

00:10:21.720 the beautiful,

00:10:22.680 and to adhere

00:10:23.420 to the apostolic teaching,

00:10:25.840 to continue

00:10:27.320 to hand over

00:10:29.380 to the future.

00:10:30.380 And we're part

00:10:30.860 of a long tradition.

00:10:33.180 There are people

00:10:34.160 who have infiltrated

00:10:35.440 and arrogated

00:10:37.300 to themselves

00:10:38.140 a kind of trendy thought

00:10:40.180 which wishes

00:10:41.620 to change church teaching.

00:10:43.920 But there are many

00:10:44.840 who will stand firm,

00:10:46.960 and I believe

00:10:47.700 they will prevail.

00:10:48.980 We have the promise

00:10:50.000 that the gates of hell

00:10:51.460 will not prevail

00:10:52.480 against the church.

00:10:54.200 But our struggle

00:10:55.360 is not

00:10:56.300 actually

00:10:57.460 with flesh and blood.

00:10:59.860 Our struggle

00:11:00.600 is with powers

00:11:01.660 and principalities

00:11:03.000 in high places.

00:11:04.720 We are engaged

00:11:05.760 in a spiritual battle,

00:11:07.420 and it requires

00:11:08.760 a spiritual commitment.

00:11:11.120 We must not always

00:11:12.480 depend on

00:11:13.840 the easy conclusion

00:11:17.740 because

00:11:18.480 the final test

00:11:21.000 of true love

00:11:22.660 for others

00:11:23.960 and for God

00:11:24.900 is not the easy solution.

00:11:27.440 It's what is finally

00:11:28.500 for the good

00:11:29.660 of the other.

00:11:31.140 And often,

00:11:31.960 if you do not propose

00:11:33.980 for the other

00:11:34.680 a high standard,

00:11:36.060 you show

00:11:37.920 an insufficient love

00:11:39.980 for your neighbor.

00:11:41.660 The church

00:11:42.460 is,

00:11:43.420 as the picture

00:11:44.180 behind you

00:11:44.940 shows,

00:11:46.020 Ben,

00:11:46.780 it's a city

00:11:48.500 that's been here

00:11:49.380 for 2,777 years,

00:11:53.440 founded

00:11:54.000 in 753 B.C.

00:11:57.700 As you walk

00:11:58.480 through the city,

00:11:59.500 you're walking

00:12:00.560 where emperors walked,

00:12:02.660 where Julius Caesar

00:12:03.700 walked.

00:12:04.240 You're walking

00:12:05.220 where barbarians

00:12:06.540 walked

00:12:07.060 as they

00:12:07.680 conquered the city

00:12:08.960 and put it

00:12:10.700 to the flame.

00:12:11.920 You're walking

00:12:12.620 where saints walked.

00:12:13.680 St. Peter was here.

00:12:14.820 St. Paul was here.

00:12:15.960 Both of them

00:12:16.380 were executed here.

00:12:17.880 That's why

00:12:18.300 the church is here,

00:12:19.500 because the graves

00:12:20.820 of the two apostles,

00:12:22.640 to the Jews

00:12:23.580 and to the Gentiles,

00:12:25.080 to all the nations

00:12:26.140 of the earth,

00:12:27.820 are here in Rome.

00:12:29.340 One,

00:12:30.160 Peter,

00:12:30.580 in St. Peter's Basilica,

00:12:31.980 the other,

00:12:32.480 Paul,

00:12:32.900 just outside the city.

00:12:35.000 And that tradition

00:12:36.860 and the scriptures

00:12:38.000 that were written

00:12:38.960 is part of the fabric

00:12:42.080 of this city.

00:12:42.820 That's why behind you,

00:12:44.280 Ben,

00:12:44.540 you see a church steeple,

00:12:46.480 and there's actually

00:12:47.180 several in the image

00:12:48.480 behind you.

00:12:49.700 Yet there's also

00:12:50.540 a classical image

00:12:52.140 of a Roman chariot

00:12:53.300 in the sky.

00:12:54.660 This fusion

00:12:55.640 of imperial

00:12:57.440 and papal power

00:12:59.140 has distinguished

00:13:01.080 Jewish Rome,

00:13:01.960 but people here

00:13:04.240 can find

00:13:05.920 simple faith.

00:13:07.620 And in the end,

00:13:08.240 I think

00:13:08.680 Pope John Paul II

00:13:10.260 and Pope Benedict

00:13:11.020 and often Pope Francis

00:13:12.920 himself,

00:13:13.580 who nevertheless

00:13:14.100 has been confusing

00:13:15.340 and unclear,

00:13:17.380 and I expect

00:13:18.120 to be having

00:13:19.100 a brief meeting

00:13:19.860 with him

00:13:20.280 in another few days

00:13:21.400 here in Rome.

00:13:22.180 And I'm going

00:13:23.140 to say,

00:13:24.400 Holy Father,

00:13:25.760 you have

00:13:27.080 confused

00:13:28.240 and disturbed

00:13:29.000 and perhaps

00:13:29.820 scandalized

00:13:30.520 many people.

00:13:31.480 Why don't you

00:13:31.940 make one final

00:13:32.620 effort to speak

00:13:33.440 and issue

00:13:34.600 a clear call?

00:13:35.580 And therefore,

00:13:38.580 I'm wishing also

00:13:39.520 to Pope Francis,

00:13:40.760 who's 88 now,

00:13:41.800 a Merry Christmas,

00:13:42.840 and also to

00:13:43.760 Archbishop Viganot,

00:13:45.280 who has been

00:13:45.900 excommunicated,

00:13:47.200 but I'm wishing him

00:13:48.220 a Merry Christmas

00:13:48.920 because he's been

00:13:49.760 such a beacon

00:13:50.500 of truth.

00:13:51.740 And let's hope

00:13:52.880 that the Jubilee

00:13:53.760 year ahead,

00:13:54.720 the new year ahead,

00:13:56.080 will continue

00:13:57.300 to bring the truth

00:13:59.320 of Christ

00:14:00.040 and true joy

00:14:01.560 to humanity.

00:14:03.840 Dr. Robert Moynihan,

00:14:05.580 I wish we could

00:14:06.580 just spend the rest

00:14:07.580 of the show

00:14:08.060 churning over

00:14:08.980 what you just said.

00:14:09.760 Quickly,

00:14:10.120 20 seconds,

00:14:11.020 where do people go

00:14:12.000 to get

00:14:13.280 inside the Vatican?

00:14:16.220 We have a website,

00:14:17.940 insidethevatican.com.

00:14:20.060 I have a letter

00:14:20.800 that I send out.

00:14:21.660 There I am

00:14:22.120 the other day

00:14:22.660 with Hans Zimmer.

00:14:24.200 There I am.

00:14:24.900 Well, I'm not

00:14:25.440 with Archbishop Viganot,

00:14:26.980 but he's an old

00:14:27.780 friend of mine.

00:14:29.300 And I'm wishing him

00:14:30.120 well in the new year.

00:14:32.000 And I've actually,

00:14:33.480 these hands,

00:14:35.580 have shaken

00:14:36.740 the hands

00:14:37.240 of John Paul II,

00:14:38.660 Benedict XVI,

00:14:39.920 and Pope Francis,

00:14:41.060 and Archbishop Viganot.

00:14:42.660 So I try to bring

00:14:43.500 everyone together.

00:14:44.620 And you can find me

00:14:45.320 at insidethevatican.com.

00:14:47.720 Dr. Robert Moynihan,

00:14:49.360 you're basically

00:14:49.940 a walking

00:14:51.280 third-class relic.

00:14:52.480 Thanks for coming

00:14:53.000 on the show.

00:14:53.460 We'll catch up

00:14:53.840 again with you soon.

00:14:54.980 Have a very many Christmas,

00:14:56.580 and we'll be back

00:14:57.120 after this short break.

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00:16:09.240 Action, action, action.

00:16:11.260 When the Christ our Savior

00:16:13.320 was born on Christmas day

00:16:15.460 to save us all

00:16:16.940 from Satan's car

00:16:18.040 when we were gone astray

00:16:19.960 all the time

00:16:21.260 Welcome back, folks.

00:16:24.220 Well, my next guest,

00:16:25.640 Jenny Holland,

00:16:26.340 is a writer.

00:16:27.020 She writes for Spike.

00:16:28.160 Now, I've had

00:16:28.840 some professional dealings

00:16:30.660 with her

00:16:31.240 over the past few years,

00:16:33.360 and I'm thrilled

00:16:34.580 that she's agreed

00:16:35.500 to come on

00:16:36.000 the show today

00:16:37.340 because I think

00:16:37.900 she's got a personal story

00:16:39.200 that I'm actually going

00:16:39.960 to be interviewing her today.

00:16:41.940 Jenny, welcome on

00:16:42.940 to the show.

00:16:43.540 I think what I find

00:16:45.220 let me just read

00:16:46.180 this short passage

00:16:47.840 out of an article

00:16:49.580 that you put out

00:16:50.360 last year

00:16:51.340 because I think

00:16:53.160 this is really

00:16:53.880 fascinating,

00:16:54.980 your backstory.

00:16:56.180 This is from

00:16:56.940 one of your articles.

00:16:58.240 During the last month,

00:16:59.580 I sought refuge

00:17:00.580 and calm

00:17:01.280 for my overstressed brain

00:17:03.100 in a very unexpected place.

00:17:05.180 So unexpected,

00:17:06.480 in fact,

00:17:07.180 that I'm reluctant

00:17:07.880 to say it out loud.

00:17:09.640 I began to say

00:17:10.920 the rosary.

00:17:11.600 As I write those words,

00:17:13.920 I feel a huge resistance

00:17:15.360 and embarrassment

00:17:16.440 like I'm sharing

00:17:17.700 the most personal thing

00:17:19.420 I have ever shared.

00:17:21.040 Why is it so uncomfortable

00:17:22.220 for me to state

00:17:23.420 this fact you ask?

00:17:27.140 Okay,

00:17:28.000 so I can guess

00:17:29.560 why a lot of people

00:17:30.820 don't like talking

00:17:31.580 about the interior aspects

00:17:33.640 of their faith,

00:17:36.180 but that's not,

00:17:37.780 but the fact that you are doing

00:17:39.160 would still be intriguing,

00:17:40.100 but that's not what

00:17:41.300 got my interest.

00:17:43.100 What got my interest

00:17:44.220 is that you're

00:17:45.360 formerly agnostic.

00:17:47.440 You're formerly agnostic,

00:17:49.400 and yet you're moving

00:17:50.900 towards one of the most

00:17:52.580 famous

00:17:53.360 Catholic devotionals

00:17:56.260 that there is.

00:17:57.580 And in parallel

00:17:58.480 to that,

00:18:00.060 your background,

00:18:01.540 and I know from reading

00:18:02.380 your writings,

00:18:02.900 your father was quite

00:18:03.720 sort of anti-clerical,

00:18:06.480 that your grandfather

00:18:07.460 was a deacon.

00:18:09.340 Perhaps there's some

00:18:10.220 intergenerational rebellion

00:18:11.800 going on here.

00:18:12.740 But in addition

00:18:13.560 to that dynamic,

00:18:15.040 you yourself,

00:18:15.820 on a political sense,

00:18:17.320 are moving from the left

00:18:18.880 over into the magosphere.

00:18:21.400 And these two things

00:18:22.480 are going on

00:18:23.260 at the same time.

00:18:24.260 Tell me a bit about that,

00:18:25.480 because I think

00:18:25.740 that's a fascinating story.

00:18:28.180 Thank you.

00:18:28.660 Well,

00:18:29.260 actually,

00:18:29.860 the funniest thing about it

00:18:31.100 is that I'm far from alone.

00:18:33.480 You're right.

00:18:34.200 I started out actually

00:18:35.240 not agnostic,

00:18:36.260 but atheist.

00:18:37.160 My father was an atheist.

00:18:38.660 My mother was an atheist.

00:18:39.640 They were both brought up

00:18:40.540 in very strict

00:18:42.960 Catholic environments,

00:18:44.140 but rebelled

00:18:45.420 in the 60s

00:18:46.820 in the boomers,

00:18:47.720 sort of sexual revolution.

00:18:50.580 And my father

00:18:51.500 was a sort of science-loving,

00:18:53.200 rationalist,

00:18:54.220 liberal.

00:18:57.380 Now,

00:18:58.260 he's been dead

00:18:58.840 20 years,

00:18:59.380 unfortunately,

00:18:59.740 but I just inherited

00:19:02.480 that worldview.

00:19:03.560 And at the time,

00:19:04.340 I'm talking in the 1980s

00:19:05.620 and 1990s,

00:19:06.860 it seemed to be working okay.

00:19:09.060 In fact,

00:19:09.340 it seemed to be working

00:19:09.960 very well.

00:19:11.260 Now,

00:19:11.480 I don't have to tell you,

00:19:12.340 Ben,

00:19:12.540 or your audience

00:19:13.420 how spectacularly

00:19:14.660 the liberal project

00:19:16.120 seems to have failed

00:19:17.420 catastrophically

00:19:19.380 and dramatically,

00:19:20.820 I would say,

00:19:22.100 in the last

00:19:22.760 even five years.

00:19:23.900 It's just gotten

00:19:24.540 really remarkable.

00:19:25.960 So people like me,

00:19:27.200 sort of Gen Xers

00:19:28.020 who used to be

00:19:28.800 sort of indie kids

00:19:30.020 or hippies,

00:19:32.500 which I never was,

00:19:33.380 but radicals

00:19:35.140 and just generally

00:19:35.920 sort of progressive rebels,

00:19:38.740 even though that's

00:19:39.100 sort of a contradiction,

00:19:40.440 are now middle-aged

00:19:41.980 and are really

00:19:42.560 kind of appalled

00:19:43.540 and revisiting

00:19:45.860 and really deeply

00:19:46.820 questioning

00:19:47.460 all those

00:19:48.180 secular assumptions

00:19:49.560 that we grew up with.

00:19:50.720 And what we're finding

00:19:51.520 is that the answers

00:19:53.220 really do strongly

00:19:54.860 point to faith.

00:19:55.980 How does your

00:19:59.460 social circle,

00:20:00.500 your friends

00:20:01.280 and family even,

00:20:02.780 how are they

00:20:03.560 accompanying you

00:20:05.920 on this journey?

00:20:07.260 They're not

00:20:08.480 exactly accompanying me,

00:20:09.920 but what I have found

00:20:11.020 is new friends

00:20:12.500 who have this

00:20:13.940 almost exactly

00:20:14.880 the identical

00:20:15.420 experience as I do

00:20:16.860 and very similar

00:20:17.600 backgrounds.

00:20:18.560 And I'll give you

00:20:19.000 a really interesting

00:20:19.460 example.

00:20:20.960 My birthday

00:20:21.820 was 10 days ago

00:20:22.780 and I was stuck

00:20:24.240 in London.

00:20:24.980 I was coming back

00:20:25.720 from Italy

00:20:26.260 and I got stuck

00:20:27.320 in the storm

00:20:28.100 and my flight

00:20:28.540 was cancelled

00:20:28.960 and I was invited

00:20:30.180 over to the home

00:20:31.300 of a former lefty

00:20:33.920 like myself,

00:20:34.740 same age as me,

00:20:36.000 a philosopher

00:20:36.600 and her husband

00:20:38.980 and they,

00:20:40.980 again,

00:20:41.520 very left-wing

00:20:42.540 alternative lifestyle

00:20:44.180 backgrounds

00:20:44.980 and the entire lunch,

00:20:47.140 which was lovely,

00:20:48.160 was spent talking

00:20:48.920 about God

00:20:49.600 and before we ate

00:20:50.840 we all,

00:20:51.580 we sat and prayed

00:20:52.440 and I've never

00:20:53.060 done that before

00:20:53.620 in my life.

00:20:54.460 That's the first time

00:20:55.260 in my life,

00:20:55.860 in my adult life anyway,

00:20:57.320 that something like

00:20:57.860 that has happened.

00:20:58.800 So there's a very,

00:20:59.940 really noticeable

00:21:01.200 change happening

00:21:02.260 amongst people

00:21:03.700 who used to identify

00:21:04.860 as left-wing indie types.

00:21:07.700 It might be small,

00:21:08.980 it's probably the minority,

00:21:10.720 but it's perceptible.

00:21:14.080 Do you think it's growing?

00:21:16.400 I do think it's growing.

00:21:18.080 I mean,

00:21:18.380 I suppose there's

00:21:18.900 some sort of

00:21:19.340 selection bias possible,

00:21:21.080 but if you really,

00:21:23.160 I mean,

00:21:23.540 I think the world

00:21:24.020 is falling into two groups,

00:21:25.060 the people who are

00:21:26.240 really unable

00:21:28.140 to break free

00:21:29.080 from their group consensus

00:21:30.540 and I know

00:21:31.180 more people like that

00:21:32.800 and for whatever reason,

00:21:34.360 I'm not one of them.

00:21:35.220 I broke free

00:21:35.960 from my group's consensus,

00:21:37.160 which was like

00:21:37.720 the sort of

00:21:38.380 blue New York

00:21:39.680 Democrat thing

00:21:40.940 and the people

00:21:43.260 who can't help

00:21:44.380 but see what they see

00:21:45.800 and once you see

00:21:47.220 what you see,

00:21:48.640 the questions

00:21:49.360 that it raises

00:21:50.140 really are stark.

00:21:52.720 I mean,

00:21:53.060 for me,

00:21:54.120 it was,

00:21:54.520 first of all,

00:21:55.020 it was the COVID response

00:21:57.420 and the vaccine mandates

00:21:58.980 and the transing

00:22:00.060 of children

00:22:00.560 and I thought,

00:22:01.680 well,

00:22:02.040 I thought back to my father

00:22:03.080 and his love of science

00:22:04.120 and his love of Isaac Newton

00:22:05.380 and all of these

00:22:06.780 really sort of

00:22:07.680 foundational figures

00:22:09.040 of the liberal

00:22:10.440 world order

00:22:13.220 and I thought

00:22:14.360 that no longer

00:22:16.200 is working.

00:22:18.020 Those rules

00:22:19.580 have failed us.

00:22:21.060 Science became

00:22:21.940 this religion

00:22:22.740 in and of itself

00:22:23.660 and had the same flaws

00:22:25.900 as sort of a dogmatic

00:22:28.520 repressive religion

00:22:30.060 had.

00:22:31.420 That was a real shock

00:22:32.440 to me

00:22:32.820 that the secular

00:22:33.840 liberal world

00:22:34.740 did not avoid

00:22:35.880 the cruelties

00:22:37.080 of the barbarisms.

00:22:38.240 I thought,

00:22:38.880 I took it as faith

00:22:40.080 that the secular world

00:22:41.380 would avoid those things.

00:22:43.780 You divided the world

00:22:45.100 into two groups.

00:22:46.800 Is it fair to say

00:22:47.980 that you're

00:22:48.500 sort of suggesting

00:22:49.760 that those two groups

00:22:50.980 are those

00:22:52.200 who recognize

00:22:53.200 that that

00:22:54.220 agnostic,

00:22:55.840 atheistic,

00:22:57.120 prevailing culture

00:22:57.880 is failing

00:22:58.540 and those that

00:22:59.200 don't recognize it?

00:23:01.200 I think there's

00:23:01.760 a sliding scale.

00:23:02.780 I think you start out

00:23:03.780 by thinking,

00:23:04.440 oh, wow,

00:23:04.980 these lefties

00:23:05.540 sure are crazy

00:23:06.280 and then suddenly

00:23:07.440 you find yourself

00:23:08.360 praying the rosary

00:23:09.660 within a few short years.

00:23:11.240 So it depends

00:23:12.880 on where people

00:23:13.440 are in that scale.

00:23:14.860 But that was

00:23:15.700 certainly my trajectory

00:23:16.860 unexpectedly.

00:23:20.060 Wow.

00:23:21.100 And how are

00:23:22.060 your long-standing

00:23:23.680 historic friends?

00:23:24.520 How are they

00:23:25.800 seeing this?

00:23:30.840 That's what I don't

00:23:31.860 discuss.

00:23:32.800 I don't discuss it

00:23:33.600 with them.

00:23:34.060 I think politics

00:23:35.920 and just general

00:23:36.940 life has kind of

00:23:37.840 moved me away

00:23:38.680 from them anyway,

00:23:39.840 not deliberately

00:23:40.780 in any dramatic way,

00:23:42.080 just people are

00:23:42.920 middle-aged

00:23:43.420 and have their lives

00:23:44.260 and live far apart.

00:23:45.800 So I'm not

00:23:46.400 entirely sure.

00:23:48.320 I do often think

00:23:49.900 of my grandfather,

00:23:50.800 though,

00:23:51.000 who died,

00:23:51.600 I think,

00:23:52.020 about 16 years ago

00:23:54.040 and what he would

00:23:56.160 think of this

00:23:57.340 new version of me.

00:23:59.060 And I'm sure

00:24:00.660 he would be

00:24:01.620 delighted

00:24:03.500 because like

00:24:04.260 many greatest

00:24:05.480 generation,

00:24:06.500 all of his children,

00:24:07.560 he had 10 children,

00:24:08.380 he was very devout

00:24:09.000 Catholic,

00:24:09.980 became pretty much

00:24:12.380 atheists

00:24:13.240 and even hostile

00:24:14.440 to the church.

00:24:15.820 So that,

00:24:16.520 I often think about

00:24:17.400 what that tragedy

00:24:18.320 must have been

00:24:19.140 like for him

00:24:20.180 to have this

00:24:21.220 very sincere face

00:24:22.400 that was not

00:24:23.700 picked up

00:24:24.380 by his many

00:24:25.240 children.

00:24:26.620 But I think

00:24:27.780 there is a turning

00:24:28.560 now.

00:24:28.840 I really do.

00:24:30.680 Jenny,

00:24:31.340 in the final

00:24:31.920 three minutes

00:24:32.580 that we've got

00:24:33.320 of this part

00:24:35.420 of the show,

00:24:35.960 I want to ask you

00:24:36.420 something.

00:24:36.880 Looking over the

00:24:37.580 course of the

00:24:38.960 last year,

00:24:40.140 is there anything

00:24:40.720 that you could say

00:24:41.580 you think

00:24:42.220 this,

00:24:43.340 I think,

00:24:43.620 was the action

00:24:44.180 of Jesus Christ

00:24:45.120 working in the

00:24:46.040 affairs of man?

00:24:47.600 And is there

00:24:47.980 anything within

00:24:48.820 the personal realm

00:24:49.780 that you might

00:24:50.520 say the same

00:24:51.720 sort of thing

00:24:52.180 about that you'd

00:24:52.900 share with

00:24:53.320 the war in

00:24:54.020 posse?

00:24:55.400 Yes.

00:24:55.940 I mean,

00:24:56.120 I feel like

00:24:58.000 an interloper.

00:24:58.840 If I try to

00:24:59.940 speak about

00:25:00.500 say Jesus

00:25:01.120 or anything

00:25:02.620 that's about

00:25:03.680 the Bible,

00:25:04.360 I don't feel

00:25:05.000 like I've

00:25:05.380 earned that

00:25:06.120 right.

00:25:07.700 But I will

00:25:08.280 say that

00:25:08.720 praying the

00:25:11.100 rosary almost

00:25:11.720 every morning,

00:25:12.500 I mean,

00:25:12.680 there's been a

00:25:13.620 week or so here

00:25:14.220 and there

00:25:14.400 where I haven't

00:25:14.800 done it,

00:25:15.680 throughout this

00:25:16.680 year,

00:25:17.440 I have noticed

00:25:18.760 the level of

00:25:19.620 calm that it

00:25:20.920 has brought

00:25:21.320 into my life.

00:25:22.720 It's absolutely

00:25:23.680 extraordinary.

00:25:24.880 So crises

00:25:25.740 happen,

00:25:26.280 right?

00:25:26.520 Things go

00:25:27.040 wrong.

00:25:28.500 People do

00:25:29.220 things that

00:25:29.660 upset you.

00:25:30.740 And it made

00:25:31.520 me so much

00:25:32.040 less reactive.

00:25:33.100 And it really

00:25:33.700 did make me

00:25:34.360 take,

00:25:34.780 it gave me

00:25:35.320 an ability

00:25:35.660 to take a

00:25:36.120 deep breath

00:25:36.700 and sort

00:25:37.980 of be at

00:25:38.360 peace even

00:25:39.180 when things

00:25:40.700 were going

00:25:41.440 quite terribly

00:25:42.940 wrong.

00:25:43.960 And I can

00:25:44.680 only attribute

00:25:45.380 that to

00:25:46.300 that sense

00:25:47.920 of having

00:25:48.660 a higher

00:25:49.040 power to

00:25:50.080 whom I can

00:25:50.760 hand over

00:25:51.920 my troubles.

00:25:54.420 Wow.

00:25:55.160 Wow.

00:25:55.740 Tell me,

00:25:56.400 in the two

00:25:57.300 minutes then

00:25:58.000 of left,

00:25:59.860 you write

00:26:01.560 for Spike,

00:26:02.600 but you also

00:26:03.300 push out some

00:26:04.200 great stuff

00:26:05.080 on your

00:26:06.140 Substack column.

00:26:07.240 Just quickly,

00:26:07.980 on social media,

00:26:09.440 what are the

00:26:09.800 things that

00:26:10.320 you'd point

00:26:11.000 to people

00:26:11.420 towards?

00:26:12.300 And what

00:26:12.640 sort of

00:26:12.880 things do

00:26:13.200 you write

00:26:13.560 about on

00:26:14.100 Substack?

00:26:15.300 So on

00:26:16.000 Substack,

00:26:16.420 I write

00:26:16.720 mainly about

00:26:17.360 the culture

00:26:17.800 wars.

00:26:18.540 So that

00:26:18.760 includes a

00:26:19.300 lot of

00:26:19.680 these sort

00:26:20.060 of spiritual

00:26:20.600 questions,

00:26:21.920 that are

00:26:22.180 coming up

00:26:22.720 more and

00:26:23.080 more for

00:26:23.400 people like

00:26:23.860 me.

00:26:24.980 I write a

00:26:26.040 lot about

00:26:26.340 the American

00:26:26.780 media.

00:26:27.760 I used to

00:26:28.120 be in the

00:26:29.140 newspaper business.

00:26:29.960 I worked

00:26:30.200 for the New

00:26:30.520 York Times

00:26:30.900 for three

00:26:31.300 years when

00:26:31.720 I was in

00:26:31.960 my 20s.

00:26:34.320 I like

00:26:35.320 to excoriate

00:26:36.400 them and

00:26:37.140 say mean

00:26:37.560 things about

00:26:38.020 them.

00:26:39.100 So Substack

00:26:39.580 is really

00:26:39.940 where I do

00:26:40.400 the bulk

00:26:40.780 of my

00:26:41.040 work.

00:26:41.480 I interview

00:26:41.920 people like

00:26:42.440 I interview

00:26:42.760 you,

00:26:43.100 Ben.

00:26:44.240 And I

00:26:44.940 write for

00:26:45.560 Spike on a

00:26:46.360 freelance

00:26:46.580 basis as

00:26:47.280 well.

00:26:48.060 But definitely

00:26:49.040 go to my

00:26:49.600 Substack.

00:26:50.060 It's a very

00:26:50.340 active community

00:26:51.820 a lot of

00:26:52.860 people like

00:26:53.340 me,

00:26:53.800 Gen Xers,

00:26:54.600 who are

00:26:54.940 falling out

00:26:55.780 of their

00:26:56.180 leftist

00:26:56.580 religion and

00:26:57.620 falling into

00:26:58.080 true religion.

00:27:00.200 And on

00:27:01.040 Substack,

00:27:02.080 how do people

00:27:02.540 find you there?

00:27:03.080 So it's my

00:27:04.980 name,

00:27:06.080 Jenny E.

00:27:06.960 Holland dot

00:27:08.520 Substack,

00:27:09.240 or you can

00:27:10.040 Google saving

00:27:10.900 culture from

00:27:11.520 itself on

00:27:12.560 Substack.

00:27:14.300 Fantastic.

00:27:15.340 And Getter,

00:27:17.220 Twitter,

00:27:18.080 what have you?

00:27:19.460 Getter is my

00:27:20.320 name,

00:27:20.720 Jenny E.

00:27:21.140 Holland.

00:27:22.140 Yeah,

00:27:22.580 Jenny E.

00:27:23.020 Holland on

00:27:23.420 Getter.

00:27:23.840 And on

00:27:24.100 Twitter,

00:27:24.680 it's Semper

00:27:25.500 Femina 21.

00:27:28.540 Semper Femina,

00:27:29.660 which means

00:27:30.360 forever female.

00:27:31.860 for the

00:27:33.860 non-Latinists

00:27:35.180 following the

00:27:36.040 show today.

00:27:36.620 Jenny,

00:27:36.800 I'm very,

00:27:37.220 very grateful

00:27:37.660 that you came

00:27:38.100 on the show.

00:27:39.060 Absolutely in

00:27:40.240 the new year,

00:27:41.320 I'd love to have

00:27:41.900 you back on

00:27:42.480 and help

00:27:42.960 digest the

00:27:44.640 cultural events

00:27:46.160 that are taking

00:27:46.900 place,

00:27:47.640 because often

00:27:48.100 one needs a

00:27:49.560 Sherpa

00:27:49.960 to help with

00:27:52.260 that.

00:27:52.840 Thank you so

00:27:53.400 much.

00:27:53.500 Happy to be

00:27:53.940 that Sherpa.

00:27:54.220 And thank

00:27:56.200 you for sharing

00:27:56.800 your personal

00:27:59.140 testimony with

00:28:00.300 us today,

00:28:01.020 Christmas Eve,

00:28:02.060 Christmas Day

00:28:02.780 tomorrow.

00:28:03.980 Merry Christmas,

00:28:04.980 Jenny,

00:28:05.320 to you.

00:28:05.920 Back up this

00:28:06.760 short break.

00:28:07.280 welcome back.

00:28:22.600 So the final

00:28:24.280 half of the

00:28:25.060 show today,

00:28:25.700 as we canter

00:28:26.260 towards the end,

00:28:27.080 is with one

00:28:27.860 of the people

00:28:28.240 I think is

00:28:29.060 one of the

00:28:30.060 if not one

00:28:31.100 of the foremost,

00:28:31.900 if not the

00:28:32.480 important military

00:28:34.320 historians in the

00:28:35.600 world right now,

00:28:36.500 Patrick K.

00:28:37.660 O'Donnell,

00:28:38.400 who will

00:28:39.440 actually be

00:28:40.100 hosting the

00:28:41.060 Christmas show

00:28:42.040 tomorrow.

00:28:42.960 Patrick,

00:28:43.560 thanks for

00:28:44.180 coming on the

00:28:44.660 show today.

00:28:45.940 I wanted to

00:28:46.940 ask you,

00:28:47.660 because this is

00:28:48.180 sort of

00:28:48.480 Christmas time

00:28:49.960 period,

00:28:51.800 it's one of

00:28:52.460 the things I've

00:28:52.860 been asking all

00:28:53.440 of the guests

00:28:54.040 on this

00:28:54.640 Christmas Eve

00:28:55.300 special,

00:28:56.240 is an element

00:28:57.200 to do with

00:28:57.780 the fact,

00:28:58.160 you know,

00:28:58.400 we're celebrating

00:28:59.140 tomorrow the

00:28:59.700 birth of our

00:29:00.260 Lord and

00:29:00.720 Saviour,

00:29:01.320 Jesus Christ.

00:29:02.460 I wanted to

00:29:03.260 ask you two

00:29:03.940 questions.

00:29:05.600 Can you

00:29:06.140 point to

00:29:06.640 anything in

00:29:07.680 the public

00:29:08.680 sphere where

00:29:09.240 you can say

00:29:09.720 during the

00:29:10.240 last course

00:29:10.960 of the last

00:29:11.360 year,

00:29:11.800 that you can

00:29:12.080 say,

00:29:12.400 I think this

00:29:13.120 was the

00:29:13.520 action of

00:29:14.480 Jesus Christ

00:29:15.720 acting in

00:29:17.080 human events,

00:29:17.920 and whether

00:29:18.340 there is

00:29:18.700 perhaps anything

00:29:19.320 in your own

00:29:20.000 personal life

00:29:20.900 similarly that

00:29:22.400 you could

00:29:22.820 look towards?

00:29:25.540 I think

00:29:26.300 that the

00:29:26.780 President Trump

00:29:30.220 in his

00:29:31.180 salvation,

00:29:32.640 the day that

00:29:33.140 he was nearly

00:29:34.340 executed was

00:29:36.120 the hand of

00:29:36.880 God,

00:29:37.220 the armor of

00:29:37.860 God.

00:29:38.440 It was

00:29:38.620 pretty obvious,

00:29:39.640 evident,

00:29:40.280 I think,

00:29:40.740 there in my

00:29:41.520 mind that

00:29:42.880 he was saved

00:29:43.920 for a reason,

00:29:44.720 and he is a

00:29:45.880 historical figure

00:29:47.140 of extreme

00:29:48.560 consequence,

00:29:49.160 and he's here

00:29:50.020 at exactly the

00:29:51.280 right time in

00:29:52.280 the right place.

00:29:55.160 And for me

00:29:56.140 personally,

00:29:57.240 things manifest

00:29:58.500 themselves in

00:30:01.720 many situations.

00:30:05.060 For me,

00:30:05.480 my faith,

00:30:06.560 Steve asked

00:30:07.100 me when I

00:30:07.800 wrote my

00:30:08.560 book,

00:30:10.020 We Were

00:30:10.800 One,

00:30:11.400 which is on

00:30:12.000 my experience

00:30:13.920 in the Battle

00:30:14.540 of Fallujah

00:30:15.060 as a combat

00:30:16.480 historian.

00:30:16.940 I was a

00:30:17.400 volunteer

00:30:17.920 combat historian,

00:30:19.780 but I was in

00:30:20.080 uniform and I

00:30:20.680 was armed

00:30:21.140 with a marine

00:30:22.000 rifle platoon

00:30:22.880 through the

00:30:23.500 entire battle

00:30:24.340 over a month,

00:30:26.280 and then I

00:30:26.880 spent three

00:30:27.620 months in

00:30:28.060 combat in

00:30:28.960 Iraq,

00:30:29.520 and it was

00:30:30.820 a transformative

00:30:32.060 event.

00:30:33.820 And Steve

00:30:34.360 asked me what

00:30:34.960 was the most

00:30:36.120 important aspect

00:30:37.040 of that

00:30:37.680 experience.

00:30:40.900 I said to

00:30:41.740 him,

00:30:42.100 my faith was

00:30:42.960 reaffirmed,

00:30:43.840 and I went

00:30:45.400 to Iraq,

00:30:47.560 almost,

00:30:48.260 I want to

00:30:48.540 say,

00:30:48.940 agnostic

00:30:49.820 to some

00:30:51.880 degree.

00:30:52.780 I had been

00:30:53.480 through,

00:30:54.280 you know,

00:30:55.760 12 years

00:30:56.160 of Catholic

00:30:56.620 school and

00:30:57.840 had a deep

00:30:59.240 faith.

00:30:59.560 I had a

00:30:59.960 pretty good

00:31:00.660 understanding

00:31:01.220 of things.

00:31:02.520 And right

00:31:03.120 before the

00:31:03.620 battle,

00:31:04.560 I received

00:31:05.960 in the mail

00:31:06.440 the items

00:31:07.920 that I'm

00:31:08.140 wearing on

00:31:08.920 my neck.

00:31:09.840 One is a

00:31:10.600 medal that

00:31:12.480 was worn

00:31:12.920 by a

00:31:13.720 paratrooper

00:31:14.200 in the

00:31:14.460 509

00:31:15.100 parachute,

00:31:16.280 who was

00:31:18.040 part of

00:31:18.720 the first

00:31:19.060 combat jump

00:31:19.860 of the

00:31:20.920 United States

00:31:21.340 in North

00:31:21.640 Africa.

00:31:22.320 He fought

00:31:22.660 through

00:31:23.040 North Africa.

00:31:24.180 This is a

00:31:24.700 509,

00:31:25.620 known as

00:31:26.280 the

00:31:26.420 Geronimos,

00:31:28.040 were one

00:31:29.040 of the

00:31:29.220 most

00:31:29.440 decorated

00:31:30.300 parachute

00:31:31.300 units.

00:31:31.840 They received

00:31:32.520 the

00:31:32.700 presidential

00:31:32.960 unit

00:31:33.400 citation.

00:31:34.040 They were

00:31:34.160 at

00:31:34.300 Anzio and

00:31:35.780 were hit

00:31:36.220 by an

00:31:37.080 entire

00:31:37.640 corps,

00:31:39.520 50,000

00:31:40.240 Germans,

00:31:40.800 including

00:31:41.140 tanks,

00:31:43.200 thousands

00:31:43.520 of rounds

00:31:44.580 of artillery

00:31:46.000 shells.

00:31:47.420 And he

00:31:48.040 was one

00:31:48.380 of the

00:31:48.560 men that

00:31:48.900 survived

00:31:49.360 without a

00:31:49.900 scratch.

00:31:50.280 and they

00:31:52.160 went from

00:31:52.780 Anzio to

00:31:53.280 southern

00:31:53.480 France,

00:31:53.920 and then

00:31:54.220 they were

00:31:54.840 part of

00:31:55.280 the group

00:31:55.720 that was

00:31:56.660 trucked

00:31:57.060 into Belgium

00:31:58.920 to stem

00:31:59.560 the tide

00:32:00.140 in the

00:32:00.560 northern

00:32:00.760 shoulder

00:32:01.140 against

00:32:01.540 the

00:32:02.260 Waffen-SS

00:32:02.880 and

00:32:03.280 Joachim-Piper.

00:32:04.740 And

00:32:04.820 specifically,

00:32:05.620 they faced

00:32:06.240 an epic

00:32:07.580 stand against

00:32:08.640 an SS-Panzer

00:32:10.040 grenadier division

00:32:10.780 in a place

00:32:11.140 called

00:32:11.380 Sadsot.

00:32:12.340 And,

00:32:12.700 you know,

00:32:13.080 these are

00:32:13.340 lightly armed

00:32:14.040 men that

00:32:14.660 just had

00:32:15.080 grit and

00:32:15.680 tenacity

00:32:16.200 with

00:32:17.260 bazookas

00:32:18.100 and,

00:32:19.160 you know,

00:32:19.860 mortars

00:32:20.320 and M1

00:32:21.340 Garands

00:32:21.840 and BARs

00:32:22.900 and grenades,

00:32:23.820 and they

00:32:24.160 somehow

00:32:24.560 stopped

00:32:25.500 the SS

00:32:26.360 there

00:32:26.740 in the

00:32:28.180 northern

00:32:28.420 shoulder,

00:32:28.920 which is

00:32:29.200 the most

00:32:29.800 crucial part.

00:32:31.220 The other

00:32:31.480 metal

00:32:31.800 is,

00:32:33.060 or the

00:32:33.520 other

00:32:33.740 is a

00:32:34.500 scapula

00:32:36.100 that I've

00:32:37.040 worn

00:32:37.280 since

00:32:37.680 Fallujah

00:32:38.080 ever since.

00:32:39.760 And it

00:32:39.980 was worn

00:32:40.480 by,

00:32:41.720 if you're

00:32:42.300 familiar with

00:32:42.840 the story,

00:32:43.500 the catcher

00:32:43.980 was a spy.

00:32:44.760 This is

00:32:46.340 Mo Berg,

00:32:47.180 who is

00:32:47.660 one of

00:32:48.160 OSS's

00:32:48.800 greatest spies

00:32:49.520 behind the

00:32:49.980 lines.

00:32:50.400 He was

00:32:50.560 able to

00:32:50.860 speak

00:32:51.060 nine

00:32:51.300 languages.

00:32:52.460 But he

00:32:52.720 was part

00:32:53.080 of the

00:32:53.320 ALSOS

00:32:53.740 program,

00:32:54.560 which was,

00:32:55.080 they went

00:32:55.300 after Germany's

00:32:56.200 secrets,

00:32:57.200 nuclear secrets

00:32:58.160 in particular.

00:32:59.460 The man

00:32:59.900 that wore

00:33:00.240 the scapula

00:33:00.900 was his

00:33:01.420 radio operator

00:33:02.200 that went

00:33:03.140 behind the

00:33:03.640 lines with

00:33:04.060 him.

00:33:05.120 And they

00:33:06.220 were in

00:33:06.600 some of

00:33:06.900 the most

00:33:07.240 perilous

00:33:08.060 situations

00:33:09.440 surrounded

00:33:10.200 by Germans.

00:33:11.660 In Rome,

00:33:12.180 for instance,

00:33:12.740 they hid in

00:33:13.120 an attic.

00:33:13.740 He hid in

00:33:14.120 an attic.

00:33:14.500 Well,

00:33:15.100 the place

00:33:15.400 was being

00:33:15.840 searched by

00:33:16.780 scores of

00:33:18.260 SS and

00:33:18.960 German troops.

00:33:20.560 Somehow

00:33:20.900 survived this

00:33:21.900 multiple parachute

00:33:23.180 drops.

00:33:23.860 He even

00:33:24.280 went in a

00:33:25.200 small rubber

00:33:26.440 raft on

00:33:27.000 another mission

00:33:27.700 individually.

00:33:31.540 And right

00:33:32.020 before Fallujah,

00:33:33.000 this arrived,

00:33:33.780 and he said,

00:33:34.220 you need this

00:33:34.740 more than I

00:33:35.480 do where

00:33:36.200 you're going.

00:33:37.440 And I've

00:33:38.120 worn them

00:33:38.540 ever since.

00:33:39.280 They're my

00:33:39.540 most prized

00:33:40.140 possessions.

00:33:41.640 I mean,

00:33:42.060 fascinating

00:33:43.180 story is I

00:33:44.160 went swimming

00:33:44.680 with my

00:33:45.140 daughter about

00:33:46.840 10 or 12

00:33:47.480 years ago,

00:33:48.060 and I took

00:33:49.460 the medals

00:33:49.980 and the

00:33:50.440 scapula off,

00:33:51.540 put it in

00:33:51.920 the locker,

00:33:52.820 and left

00:33:53.400 without having

00:33:54.780 them.

00:33:55.280 And then I

00:33:56.240 was alarmed

00:33:56.840 within 45

00:33:57.580 minutes,

00:33:57.920 I realized

00:33:58.220 where are

00:33:58.800 they?

00:33:59.000 They're gone.

00:33:59.520 Went back,

00:34:00.880 and they

00:34:02.200 were missing.

00:34:02.780 They were

00:34:02.980 gone.

00:34:03.300 And I

00:34:04.000 left just

00:34:05.240 a note

00:34:05.700 with the

00:34:05.980 front desk.

00:34:06.820 I said,

00:34:07.500 here,

00:34:07.760 if anybody

00:34:08.280 ever finds

00:34:08.880 these,

00:34:09.420 please contact

00:34:10.060 me.

00:34:11.280 Months

00:34:11.760 passed,

00:34:12.820 and I

00:34:14.380 told my

00:34:14.840 aunt,

00:34:16.120 they're

00:34:17.040 missing.

00:34:18.000 And,

00:34:18.560 you know,

00:34:19.360 she said to

00:34:19.940 me,

00:34:20.220 pray to

00:34:20.560 St.

00:34:20.780 Anthony.

00:34:22.120 I did,

00:34:23.820 and I

00:34:24.140 prayed to

00:34:24.660 St.

00:34:24.880 Anthony,

00:34:25.260 and within

00:34:25.640 three or

00:34:26.160 four days,

00:34:26.900 I got a

00:34:27.640 call.

00:34:28.360 They said,

00:34:28.740 I found

00:34:29.540 these,

00:34:30.140 the scapula

00:34:30.740 in the

00:34:30.920 metal,

00:34:31.440 in the

00:34:31.880 locker.

00:34:33.300 Would you

00:34:34.400 like them

00:34:34.660 back?

00:34:35.260 I said,

00:34:35.620 absolutely.

00:34:36.980 And this,

00:34:37.920 it's

00:34:39.180 extraordinary.

00:34:40.620 How did

00:34:41.560 that happen?

00:34:44.120 I mean,

00:34:44.900 you checked

00:34:45.420 the locker

00:34:45.740 wasn't there,

00:34:46.380 right?

00:34:47.720 It was

00:34:48.100 gone.

00:34:48.720 They were

00:34:49.020 gone.

00:34:49.540 And they

00:34:49.860 were missing

00:34:50.240 for months.

00:34:51.540 And I

00:34:51.860 left a

00:34:52.260 note at

00:34:52.540 the front

00:34:52.880 desk that

00:34:53.300 said,

00:34:53.560 if anybody

00:34:53.900 ever finds

00:34:54.500 these,

00:34:55.720 the scapula

00:34:56.800 in the

00:34:57.020 metal,

00:34:57.520 please contact

00:34:58.280 me.

00:34:58.580 And I

00:34:58.760 left my

00:34:59.020 phone number.

00:34:59.920 And I

00:35:00.160 thought nothing

00:35:00.940 of it.

00:35:02.080 Months

00:35:02.480 passed.

00:35:03.300 I mean,

00:35:04.760 I went

00:35:05.460 swimming in

00:35:06.100 May and

00:35:06.740 I was

00:35:07.000 in July,

00:35:07.980 she said,

00:35:08.860 to pray to

00:35:10.320 St.

00:35:10.560 Anthony.

00:35:12.320 Worked.

00:35:12.940 Power of

00:35:13.320 prayer.

00:35:13.820 I mean,

00:35:14.040 it's something

00:35:14.680 that manifests

00:35:16.260 itself in my

00:35:17.240 life.

00:35:17.640 I've been

00:35:17.840 very blessed.

00:35:18.980 I had

00:35:19.140 an

00:35:20.300 extraordinary

00:35:22.220 situation.

00:35:22.980 Health-wise,

00:35:23.640 some extraordinary

00:35:24.380 things happened

00:35:24.920 to me this

00:35:25.220 year.

00:35:25.560 I shattered

00:35:26.180 my leg.

00:35:26.720 multiple things

00:35:30.740 happened to

00:35:31.280 me.

00:35:32.540 And I

00:35:34.320 was told

00:35:34.960 that I

00:35:35.200 had a

00:35:35.740 tumor in

00:35:36.160 my kidney.

00:35:37.240 And every

00:35:39.640 ultrasound,

00:35:40.560 every MRI,

00:35:41.920 everything,

00:35:43.440 the Cleveland

00:35:44.340 Clinic said,

00:35:45.060 you've got a

00:35:46.120 tumor.

00:35:47.340 And I

00:35:48.500 just prayed.

00:35:49.980 I prayed.

00:35:51.720 And the

00:35:52.240 day that I

00:35:52.760 went in,

00:35:53.100 I went in

00:35:53.480 for the

00:35:53.900 biopsy.

00:35:55.200 And I

00:35:55.740 went under

00:35:56.240 and I

00:35:56.540 talked to

00:35:57.020 my surgeon,

00:35:58.480 who's also

00:35:59.400 a professor.

00:36:00.140 I said,

00:36:00.600 you know,

00:36:00.840 what's your

00:36:01.120 experience on

00:36:01.820 this?

00:36:02.400 It's in

00:36:02.860 the canal

00:36:03.360 and the

00:36:04.800 kidney.

00:36:05.080 And he

00:36:05.260 said,

00:36:05.520 it's

00:36:05.840 generally

00:36:06.200 cancerous.

00:36:07.740 And it'll

00:36:09.040 have to

00:36:09.340 probably take

00:36:11.100 the whole

00:36:11.340 kidney out.

00:36:12.080 And I

00:36:12.380 never forget,

00:36:13.840 I woke

00:36:14.360 up and I

00:36:15.920 said,

00:36:16.160 how'd the

00:36:16.420 biopsy go?

00:36:17.160 And they

00:36:18.660 said there

00:36:18.920 was no

00:36:19.220 tumor.

00:36:20.720 Couldn't

00:36:21.500 explain it.

00:36:23.520 But I

00:36:24.460 believe it's

00:36:25.420 the power

00:36:25.780 of prayer.

00:36:28.800 I believe

00:36:29.540 it.

00:36:29.800 I was

00:36:30.120 saved in

00:36:32.840 Fallujah

00:36:33.240 multiple

00:36:33.980 times.

00:36:35.020 I can't

00:36:35.500 even have

00:36:36.920 a presence

00:36:38.540 that said

00:36:39.520 to me,

00:36:40.020 don't.

00:36:40.580 I mean,

00:36:40.840 the first

00:36:41.360 time was

00:36:41.940 I was in

00:36:43.300 a drainage

00:36:43.740 ditch.

00:36:44.540 Well,

00:36:45.220 we were

00:36:45.500 running from

00:36:46.240 two snipers

00:36:47.220 that had

00:36:47.800 a direct

00:36:48.740 bead on

00:36:49.360 me.

00:36:49.600 and the

00:36:50.540 men that

00:36:51.320 I was

00:36:51.540 with.

00:36:52.300 And I'll

00:36:52.880 never forget

00:36:53.620 the bullets

00:36:54.460 whizzed and

00:36:55.200 snapped.

00:36:55.880 They were

00:36:56.060 so close

00:36:56.620 to my

00:36:56.920 ear.

00:36:58.240 And it

00:36:58.660 was the

00:36:59.000 stories that

00:36:59.540 all my

00:37:00.040 World War

00:37:00.360 II veterans

00:37:00.860 told me.

00:37:01.440 And I'm

00:37:01.660 crawling and

00:37:02.380 running.

00:37:02.740 And it

00:37:02.840 was 600

00:37:04.360 meters at

00:37:05.540 least.

00:37:05.940 It was

00:37:06.100 an enormous

00:37:06.960 amount.

00:37:08.180 The bullets

00:37:08.960 were landing

00:37:09.320 so close.

00:37:10.780 And the

00:37:11.700 presence said

00:37:12.600 to me,

00:37:12.900 don't crawl

00:37:13.540 any further.

00:37:14.220 And a

00:37:14.500 bullet

00:37:14.700 landed right

00:37:15.260 where my

00:37:15.820 head was

00:37:17.040 going to be,

00:37:17.500 only inches

00:37:18.640 away.

00:37:19.700 And that

00:37:20.140 was the

00:37:20.400 first time.

00:37:20.940 And then it

00:37:21.160 was multiple

00:37:22.100 things after

00:37:22.640 that.

00:37:23.480 I mean,

00:37:23.640 I went into

00:37:24.300 a,

00:37:25.040 I was,

00:37:25.680 I was,

00:37:26.140 we were

00:37:26.300 clearing a

00:37:26.800 house and

00:37:28.560 I said,

00:37:30.180 pause.

00:37:30.920 And the

00:37:31.300 man in

00:37:31.800 front of me,

00:37:32.440 a Marine in

00:37:32.780 front of me

00:37:33.080 was shot in

00:37:33.640 the head.

00:37:34.660 It saved

00:37:35.500 my life.

00:37:36.280 There was a

00:37:36.680 machine gun

00:37:37.100 on the other

00:37:37.420 side.

00:37:38.420 I mean,

00:37:38.680 I can't,

00:37:40.440 I just know

00:37:41.380 that there is,

00:37:42.180 there is

00:37:44.760 Jesus and

00:37:45.720 there is

00:37:46.120 God and

00:37:47.300 my faith is

00:37:48.160 unshakable.

00:37:49.600 And it's,

00:37:50.240 it provides

00:37:50.880 you with a

00:37:51.660 sense of

00:37:53.380 never being

00:37:54.240 alone and

00:37:55.740 you can

00:37:56.120 pretty much

00:37:56.680 tackle anything.

00:38:00.840 Wow.

00:38:01.580 That's a

00:38:01.980 beautiful

00:38:02.300 testimony.

00:38:05.540 I don't,

00:38:06.280 I don't

00:38:06.580 personally have

00:38:07.300 anything,

00:38:08.080 I've never

00:38:08.700 been under

00:38:09.140 fire like

00:38:10.120 that.

00:38:10.500 but I

00:38:11.880 can,

00:38:12.200 I can

00:38:12.820 imagine the

00:38:13.700 comfort and

00:38:14.780 the assurance

00:38:15.920 that having,

00:38:17.360 having felt

00:38:18.100 very closely

00:38:18.920 the presence

00:38:19.480 of God in

00:38:20.400 those moments,

00:38:21.180 those life

00:38:21.640 and death

00:38:21.920 moments that

00:38:22.900 have endured

00:38:23.500 for,

00:38:24.520 for,

00:38:24.900 for,

00:38:25.460 through time

00:38:26.940 for,

00:38:27.340 for several

00:38:28.100 minutes.

00:38:29.500 I had

00:38:29.920 extraordinary

00:38:31.020 things too

00:38:31.760 that it

00:38:33.640 was a,

00:38:34.220 I had

00:38:37.000 many people

00:38:38.140 around me

00:38:38.760 that were

00:38:39.920 they were,

00:38:41.480 they were

00:38:41.940 scared and

00:38:43.060 they were,

00:38:43.520 you know,

00:38:44.460 rightfully so

00:38:45.980 because of what

00:38:46.380 we went

00:38:46.660 through.

00:38:47.380 But I had

00:38:47.920 a sense

00:38:48.420 of this

00:38:51.520 presence.

00:38:52.380 I felt the

00:38:53.200 world around

00:38:53.920 me and all

00:38:54.380 my senses

00:38:54.840 were heightened

00:38:55.300 in a sense

00:38:56.180 of peace

00:38:56.900 that I cannot

00:38:58.160 explain.

00:38:59.800 Because that

00:39:00.620 place,

00:39:02.840 Belusia,

00:39:03.920 was a,

00:39:04.980 kind of a

00:39:05.680 vortex into

00:39:06.440 another world.

00:39:07.440 world and

00:39:07.980 it was an

00:39:09.500 extraordinary

00:39:09.980 situation

00:39:11.880 where,

00:39:13.340 in some

00:39:13.740 cases,

00:39:14.480 I'm talking

00:39:15.060 about my

00:39:15.540 book,

00:39:15.820 We Were

00:39:16.040 One,

00:39:16.460 where many

00:39:16.920 of the

00:39:17.180 men predicted

00:39:18.020 their own

00:39:18.420 deaths and

00:39:19.780 they knew

00:39:20.080 they were

00:39:20.300 going to

00:39:20.500 die.

00:39:21.320 And it

00:39:21.420 was a,

00:39:22.560 it was a,

00:39:24.080 there's a lot

00:39:25.560 of extraordinary

00:39:26.120 circumstances there.

00:39:27.440 But I came

00:39:28.040 away from it

00:39:28.740 very much

00:39:30.560 stronger in my

00:39:31.980 faith,

00:39:32.620 reaffirmed.

00:39:33.160 Patrick,

00:39:35.380 we've got

00:39:35.760 sadly two

00:39:36.520 minutes now

00:39:36.980 before we

00:39:37.400 head into

00:39:37.860 a break.

00:39:38.700 Could you

00:39:39.020 just tell me

00:39:39.540 something,

00:39:40.920 that feeling

00:39:41.580 that you

00:39:41.940 had when

00:39:42.460 you were

00:39:42.720 under fire,

00:39:43.700 when you

00:39:43.920 sort of

00:39:44.160 commando

00:39:45.000 crawling

00:39:45.500 and that

00:39:47.120 constant

00:39:47.540 sniper fire,

00:39:48.880 do you

00:39:49.460 feel in

00:39:50.800 your heart

00:39:51.600 the connection

00:39:53.260 between that

00:39:53.860 presence of

00:39:55.100 God, of

00:39:55.580 Jesus Christ

00:39:56.280 watching over

00:39:57.020 you, putting

00:39:57.620 his hand

00:39:58.100 over you

00:39:58.560 and watching

00:39:58.960 over you,

00:39:59.960 much like he

00:40:00.440 did, as you

00:40:00.880 said, correctly

00:40:01.500 about President

00:40:02.280 Trump in

00:40:03.160 Pennsylvania.

00:40:04.120 Do you

00:40:04.380 feel the

00:40:04.740 connection, the

00:40:05.760 spiritual

00:40:06.100 connection between

00:40:07.060 that presence

00:40:08.080 and Christmas

00:40:09.360 Day, the

00:40:10.180 birth of

00:40:10.680 Christ?

00:40:11.400 Do you feel

00:40:12.120 in your

00:40:12.420 heart that

00:40:13.920 connection

00:40:14.540 through time?

00:40:16.480 Yes, I

00:40:17.260 do.

00:40:18.320 And it's

00:40:18.680 a, you

00:40:20.200 know, I've

00:40:21.000 often said

00:40:21.640 that that

00:40:23.180 experience, that

00:40:24.680 peace that I

00:40:25.720 felt when

00:40:26.540 everything was

00:40:27.340 blowing up

00:40:28.000 around me

00:40:28.640 and there

00:40:30.300 was death

00:40:30.860 everywhere.

00:40:32.280 I hope to

00:40:33.840 experience it

00:40:34.460 again.

00:40:35.080 And I, you

00:40:35.860 know, it

00:40:36.160 was, it

00:40:36.520 was, it

00:40:37.020 was incredible.

00:40:42.360 Wow.

00:40:43.540 Wow.

00:40:44.420 And so

00:40:45.040 those, those,

00:40:45.780 I carry just a

00:40:48.320 miraculous medal.

00:40:49.320 I noticed

00:40:50.100 that you, and

00:40:51.500 I also have the

00:40:52.180 scapula here as

00:40:53.460 well, which I

00:40:54.120 wear.

00:40:54.740 When the

00:40:55.760 Virgin Mary

00:40:56.360 appeared, I

00:40:57.260 think in the,

00:40:57.700 in the 12th,

00:40:58.440 13th century

00:40:59.280 to St.

00:41:00.900 Simon Stock

00:41:02.420 and gave him

00:41:04.480 the first

00:41:05.380 scapula, which

00:41:06.680 is just

00:41:06.920 basically a

00:41:07.300 very tiny

00:41:08.100 cutout of a

00:41:09.460 monastic

00:41:09.840 habit.

00:41:12.040 That day

00:41:12.880 has been

00:41:13.240 called the

00:41:13.780 most important

00:41:14.420 day in, in

00:41:16.180 English history.

00:41:17.080 And it really

00:41:18.040 created the

00:41:19.460 mendicant, kicked

00:41:20.500 off the mendicant

00:41:21.180 revival in

00:41:22.160 England.

00:41:23.000 The relics of

00:41:23.780 that through

00:41:24.200 Protestantism, I

00:41:25.140 think, continue

00:41:25.760 to filter through

00:41:26.900 and have a

00:41:27.440 real impact

00:41:28.420 in America

00:41:29.260 today.

00:41:30.300 Just for the

00:41:31.200 folks who are

00:41:31.580 listening, for

00:41:31.920 either Catholics

00:41:32.460 or Protestants

00:41:33.540 who aren't

00:41:34.880 familiar with

00:41:35.360 either of

00:41:35.760 these devotionals,

00:41:37.100 especially the

00:41:37.780 scapula, the

00:41:38.400 brown thing that

00:41:39.360 you see Patrick

00:41:40.040 wearing there,

00:41:41.800 the Catholic

00:41:42.440 belief as the

00:41:43.480 devotional here,

00:41:44.280 the promises

00:41:44.760 behind the

00:41:45.560 Virgin Mary is

00:41:46.000 that if you die

00:41:47.180 when you are

00:41:47.740 wearing this,

00:41:49.140 because of the

00:41:49.980 faith you have

00:41:50.760 in Jesus Christ,

00:41:52.420 you will be

00:41:53.220 saved.

00:41:53.560 And that

00:41:55.260 has been

00:41:55.660 a great

00:41:56.920 motor, I

00:41:57.720 think, as

00:41:58.680 part of the

00:41:59.900 development and

00:42:01.720 the thriving of

00:42:02.600 the Catholic

00:42:03.000 faith in

00:42:03.840 old Mary

00:42:04.340 England.

00:42:05.060 Back in two

00:42:06.160 minutes after

00:42:06.720 this short

00:42:07.360 break.

00:42:07.620 my pillow is

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00:42:29.180 that their

00:42:29.600 Christmas

00:42:30.060 extravaganza is

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00:42:40.440 The famous

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00:44:03.960 So as we now

00:44:05.520 approach the end

00:44:06.660 of the

00:44:07.800 Christmas Eve

00:44:08.980 special,

00:44:09.680 I just want to,

00:44:10.460 I was very moved,

00:44:11.620 Patrick, by what you

00:44:12.460 were saying before,

00:44:14.000 and I wasn't

00:44:14.500 sort of, I wasn't

00:44:15.200 planning or thinking

00:44:16.140 that the show would

00:44:16.800 go into quite

00:44:17.940 so a profound

00:44:20.680 and intense

00:44:22.100 reflection.

00:44:23.180 But seeing as we

00:44:23.760 have done this,

00:44:24.580 and seeing as it is

00:44:25.580 Christmas Eve,

00:44:26.740 I'd like to ask you

00:44:28.020 in the three or four

00:44:29.060 minutes that we have

00:44:29.920 left on this show,

00:44:31.340 and I flag up once

00:44:32.460 again that you're

00:44:32.920 actually going to be

00:44:34.040 hosting the Christmas

00:44:36.000 Day special tomorrow,

00:44:37.600 just tell me something.

00:44:38.460 for the folks who

00:44:39.540 are listening at

00:44:40.300 home, perhaps

00:44:42.020 they're not as

00:44:43.560 observant as

00:44:44.600 Christians as

00:44:47.200 they perhaps want

00:44:48.100 to or as they

00:44:49.120 would like to be,

00:44:50.080 perhaps they don't

00:44:50.640 have any faith

00:44:51.340 whatsoever.

00:44:52.120 What would you

00:44:52.660 say, how can

00:44:53.460 you, just in the

00:44:54.500 closing moments,

00:44:55.480 as we concentrate

00:44:57.080 on the nativity

00:44:58.300 of our Lord and

00:44:59.500 Saviour, how

00:45:00.320 could you, what

00:45:01.600 can you say to

00:45:02.520 make the incarnation

00:45:03.660 of God real

00:45:05.680 for people,

00:45:07.380 drawing on your

00:45:08.240 own experiences

00:45:09.180 of having been

00:45:11.200 touched and saved,

00:45:12.760 not only in the

00:45:13.420 spiritual sense,

00:45:14.260 but also obviously

00:45:15.080 in the literal

00:45:16.040 physical sense?

00:45:19.400 I think it's a

00:45:20.380 very personal

00:45:21.220 thing in many

00:45:22.880 ways.

00:45:24.600 It's, you know,

00:45:26.480 your faith in

00:45:28.320 Jesus and God

00:45:30.420 is a personal

00:45:31.900 thing.

00:45:32.460 It's not necessarily

00:45:33.320 is it manifest in

00:45:35.420 the acts that you

00:45:36.180 perform, but it's

00:45:37.480 in your own

00:45:38.480 personal faith

00:45:39.380 that you have.

00:45:41.220 And that's

00:45:41.860 where, you

00:45:43.480 know, my

00:45:43.800 experience is I've

00:45:45.140 developed a very,

00:45:46.560 you know, personal

00:45:47.500 and strong

00:45:48.120 relationship with

00:45:49.260 Jesus and God.

00:45:52.940 And that's been

00:45:55.080 my experience.

00:45:57.080 I think God

00:45:57.600 manifests himself

00:45:59.060 in different ways

00:46:00.020 in different cultures

00:46:00.840 too around the

00:46:02.180 world.

00:46:02.440 and I think

00:46:03.420 there's an

00:46:03.700 opportunity there

00:46:05.400 for everybody

00:46:07.300 to have that

00:46:07.960 personal faith,

00:46:10.040 which for me

00:46:12.540 is just, you

00:46:15.000 know, a special

00:46:15.600 and extraordinary

00:46:16.220 thing.

00:46:16.720 It's very

00:46:19.680 beautiful to hear

00:46:20.680 you talking

00:46:21.420 throughout the

00:46:23.080 show today.

00:46:24.600 And it's very

00:46:25.100 profound, you

00:46:25.680 know, when you

00:46:26.220 listen to someone

00:46:26.780 talking about how

00:46:27.680 they're under fire

00:46:28.600 and they hear

00:46:29.460 something within

00:46:30.420 themselves, we all

00:46:31.540 hear that voice at

00:46:32.380 times in our lives,

00:46:33.520 probably not quite as

00:46:35.460 an intense a moment

00:46:36.440 as being under

00:46:37.380 direct fire, but

00:46:38.560 it's, it reminds us

00:46:42.000 it was many times

00:46:43.020 too.

00:46:43.400 It wasn't just

00:46:43.860 once.

00:46:44.920 Yeah.

00:46:45.120 And I've learned

00:46:45.560 to sort of

00:46:46.780 recognize that

00:46:47.620 and, and

00:46:48.760 understand it

00:46:49.480 and accept it

00:46:50.680 and, and be

00:46:52.420 grateful for it.

00:46:54.020 This is something

00:46:54.820 that's at the

00:46:55.320 heart of Christianity,

00:46:56.300 right?

00:46:57.060 When you go to

00:46:57.960 church on, on

00:46:59.740 Sunday, it's not

00:47:01.020 just a cultural

00:47:02.580 exercise of, of

00:47:04.000 going through

00:47:04.660 or, or a habit

00:47:05.780 there is, there

00:47:06.940 should be.

00:47:07.740 Sometimes it can

00:47:08.300 be a bit dry.

00:47:09.120 Mother Teresa

00:47:09.640 wrote for many

00:47:10.700 decades, how

00:47:11.980 her spiritual

00:47:12.660 life was really

00:47:13.720 quite dry on the

00:47:14.840 inside.

00:47:15.420 But the point

00:47:16.000 is, is it

00:47:16.460 Christianity is a

00:47:17.620 personal relationship

00:47:18.740 with God?

00:47:19.960 And we know God

00:47:21.160 because we know

00:47:21.880 Jesus Christ.

00:47:22.760 That's, I think,

00:47:23.480 the most important

00:47:24.420 thing.

00:47:24.820 And that really is

00:47:25.560 what the incarnation

00:47:26.480 of God himself

00:47:28.220 as a baby in a

00:47:30.300 manger is all

00:47:31.320 about, right?

00:47:32.240 That we can act,

00:47:33.040 God isn't some

00:47:33.680 abstract, even

00:47:35.420 though we might

00:47:35.780 feel the presence

00:47:36.980 of God, but God

00:47:37.820 is not an abstract.

00:47:39.640 There's, there's,

00:47:40.380 there's a person

00:47:41.420 there.

00:47:41.980 Um, that can

00:47:43.080 be known and

00:47:43.820 loved.

00:47:45.520 Absolutely.

00:47:47.140 Absolutely.

00:47:47.660 It's a profound

00:47:48.380 and powerful

00:47:48.880 thing.

00:47:51.080 Patrick K.

00:47:52.060 O'Donnell, many,

00:47:52.940 many thanks for

00:47:53.720 coming on and

00:47:54.260 sharing this

00:47:54.920 testimony with

00:47:55.720 you.

00:47:55.900 This is Christmas

00:47:56.560 Eve.

00:47:57.460 So I think now,

00:47:59.360 even according to

00:48:00.340 the pedants, we

00:48:01.480 can actually wish

00:48:02.920 one another Merry

00:48:03.740 Christmas.

00:48:04.660 Uh, Patrick,

00:48:05.200 Merry Christmas

00:48:05.540 to you.

00:48:06.260 Warren Posse,

00:48:07.040 Merry Christmas

00:48:07.760 to you and to

00:48:09.660 our production

00:48:10.120 team in Denver.

00:48:11.540 Merry Christmas

00:48:12.120 to you too.

00:48:12.760 Remember,

00:48:14.000 happy Christmas

00:48:14.760 to you the

00:48:18.160 open

00:48:34.740 possible

00:48:35.660 to you.

00:48:36.540 Thank you.

00:49:06.540 Christ, ihr Rettel, ist da.

00:49:17.040 Stille Nacht, heilige Nacht,

00:49:26.620 Gottes Sohn, um ihn lacht,

00:49:36.220 lieb auf seinem göttlichen Mund.

00:49:42.620 Da uns schlägt die rettende Stund.

00:49:52.220 Christ, in deiner Gehurt.

00:50:01.620 Christ, in deiner Gehurt.

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Bannon's War Room - December 24, 2024

Episode 4149： A WarRoom Christmas Eve Special Cont.

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