On today's show, we have a special guest, Ben Harnwell, reporting from Rome, who joins us to talk about the current state of the EU, the Ukraine crisis, and much, much more.
00:01:22.000Well, I'm not going to follow up on the points of misinformation just to make that absolutely clear.
00:01:26.000But to respond to what you were saying before, just before the break, when you said about the 20, the 35 trillion debt and the 20 trillion GDP or whatever it was you were quoting.
00:01:38.000Of course, the thing is, let's go with the debt of 35, 36 trillion.
00:01:55.000The debt is going to grow as well in accordance with whatever the interest rate is.
00:01:59.000So, if you have interest rates at 2% for 35 years, then your debt is going to double as well, which I think should underline just how horrific this situation is.
00:02:10.000Of course, in what 35-year period is your interest rate is going to stay on an average of 2%.
00:02:21.000That is just an indication of how badly, well, not just Americans, basically every country winning central banking systems, how badly peoples in the West have been betrayed by their own government.
00:02:37.000And governments who have sold them out to financial interests.
00:02:41.000Look, I did have a few things to say on Ukraine.
00:02:46.000Sadly, it's a thing I have to, it's a shame.
00:02:51.000It's depressing to come on the show every day and talk about Ukraine because it is a horrific situation.
00:02:56.000But as we approach the Munich Security Conference Friday, Saturday, Sunday of this week, there is every, all the main players are starting to come out and make their certain press statements.
00:03:10.000And there are two key players in this, Donald Trump and Vladimir Zelensky have come out in the last 24 hours.
00:03:16.000And I just wanted to update the Warren Posse on what each of those have said.
00:03:21.000Now, and I'll be posting all the links, as I always do, that I bring on to the show.
00:03:26.000I'll be posting these. If you go to the video clip on Rumble or my Ghetto account the following day, just follow it there.
00:03:34.000And I have all of this if people want to. I recommend that they should go out and just read these things fully for themselves.
00:03:41.000So here's what Donald Trump has said. This is a sort of really explosive intervention.
00:03:48.000And he says that Ukraine may be Russian someday.
00:03:53.000Precisely what he said is, and I have the full quote here, if I can just find it.
00:04:03.000They may make a deal. They may not make a deal. They may be Russian someday or they may not be Russian someday.
00:04:10.000He also talks about the rare earth thing. And this is something I posted on quite a bit on on Ghetto.
00:04:17.000I'm 100 percent against the idea that the U.S. should underwrite security guarantees for Ukraine's stability in the future based on some kind of exchange of rare earths and minerals.
00:04:31.000It seems to be to be a retread of Kuwait from 30 years ago. I've been pretty solid on this.
00:04:39.000Hey, Ben, let me ask you on the on the President Trump statement.
00:04:43.000I mean, I read that and it seems to me he's getting into his leverage position like, you know, the Ukrainians have been waiting to make a deal since 15.
00:04:55.000Right. There's Minsk agreements. There's there's agreements in Turkey.
00:05:02.000There's agreements where the Ukrainians could have come off much better. Right.
00:05:06.000Just giving up a couple of territories. Now it's four territories and might go all the way over to Kiev in the river.
00:05:12.000Is that what he's doing by saying that? Is he saying, hey, folks, you can negotiate right now or the Russians are going to keep moving west on you and it ain't going to be my fault?
00:05:24.000That's the question, Dave. Let me say let me read out what President Trump has said about this in the last 24 hours and then I'll come back and get my interpretation on that based around the question you just asked.
00:05:37.000He said we are going to have all this money in there. And I say I want it back.
00:05:42.000And I told them that I want the equivalent like 500 billion worth of rare earth.
00:05:48.000And they have essentially agreed to that. So at least we don't feel stupid. So that's what President Trump said.
00:05:54.000Now, your question, I think, is perfectly reasonable. The problem is we're not just simply dealing with President Trump trying to negotiate in America's best interests.
00:06:04.000He is surrounded by people. I don't mean his advisers. I mean, the whole system, the whole bureaucratic swamp by the military industrial complex.
00:06:13.000These are the whole interest. The whole of America today is designed to exploit its taxpayers on given causes.
00:06:23.000So it's not a case that Donald Trump might try and negotiate in the interest of business, American business, to get access, preferential treatment to all these rare earths.
00:06:33.000The problem is that the moment he signs that thing, no one man can oversee, not even like a cabinet, can oversee all of the interactions of a huge federal bureaucracy the size of America's.
00:06:47.000The moment he signs that and then moves on to the next urgent thing, you're going to have all the grifters, all the swamp coming in trying to exploit that.
00:06:54.000So that the system is itself inherently stay unstable because people are always going to be trying to make money out of it.
00:07:01.000Now, I mentioned the military industrial complex. Let me say, I wasn't planning on mentioning this on the show, but your question is so pertinent.
00:07:11.000Here's what General Keith Kellogg, who we're mentioning him every day now on the show, he's been on the show, he's a friend of the war room, he's been on the show many times.
00:07:22.000Steve talks very, very highly about him. He's President Trump's envoy, special envoy to Ukraine.
00:07:28.000This is something he said in the last 24 hours that the US is going to be pushing your European allies to buy more arms for Ukraine.
00:07:40.000This is what he says specifically, Dave. The US always likes selling weapons made in America because it strengthens our economy.
00:07:48.000He's supportive of this. I'm not. I mean, it seems to me a pretty open admission here that what General Kellogg is saying, this is something that we said on the war for the last three years of this war, that it was basically engineered.
00:08:06.000We provoked Russia into this. NATO provoked, America provoked Russia into this war because it was good for the US arms manufacturing industry.
00:08:16.680I don't think anyone expected it to roll on to the degree that it did do.
00:08:23.160Yeah. Let me let me ask you a question there, Ben, because the in economics, that, of course, is not true. Right.
00:08:31.600Milton Friedman has kind of the famous funny quip.
00:08:35.160If you want full employment, just have everyone in your country dig ditches with teaspoons just to heighten the absurdity that will get you full employment.
00:08:44.240Everybody will be working, digging ditches with teaspoons. Right.
00:08:48.040And so that clearly is not good for your economy. Right.
00:08:50.960You have full employment, but there's no productivity.
00:08:53.320And so if you think investing in bombs that were blowing up regularly and shooting into Russia is good for the economy, that that's the opposite of what I'm getting at.
00:09:03.540When I bring up that solo model in capital equipment, we need to put capital in the hands of American workers.
00:09:09.140Right. And so you can make the argument of government spending also adds to economic growth.
00:09:16.460Right. You can do all green energy stuff.
00:09:19.180You can do totally futile stuff by shoving it into G in macroeconomics, government spending.
00:09:24.620And that does nothing for economic growth.
00:09:27.840And so, you know, I know what he might be saying in the short run.
00:09:31.040You're going to get a little spurt to growth the way we count it.
00:09:34.800But it's terrible for your long run economy.
00:09:47.780They're forcing Europeans, bludgeoning and bullying Europeans or whoever to buy U.S. made arms equipment.
00:09:57.420Well, it's going to be very good for the U.S. manufacturing industry.
00:10:02.820Obviously, from your perspective, from an American perspective, at least American taxpayers aren't going to be having to put up the bill.
00:10:10.880But, of course, the problem is that the more you have this military industrial complex subsuming itself within American society, civilian life, the political structure and the economy, the more dangerous that is.
00:10:28.720Because all it's going to do is exactly what it did do now, which is go out looking for another war because, you know, inventory needs to be replaced.
00:10:37.120There's no good having bombs on the shelves in the factories.
00:10:39.600Ben, I want to get back to your, let's get back to your thesis here.
00:10:44.880And the reason I talked about misinformation up front is because I'd hate to see President Trump get trapped into this idea that more weapons are going to win the war.
00:10:54.440That's been the life from Blinken and the State Department and the deep state and the administrative state for years.
00:11:00.900Since we toppled the Ukrainian regime in 14, we've been hearing these lies about, you know, all we're weakening Russia, supposedly, by killing a million young boys, right, dead and injured.
00:11:18.020And so the misinformation I'm getting at is, you know, why would we want to spend more money on weapons for this war that we've already lost and Russia's, by the day, moving west?
00:11:31.380And so that's the misinformation machine coming out of our media, who it turns out has been paid for, especially 90 percent in Ukraine by USAID, et cetera, in the deep state.
00:12:14.920To the war of the posse, standing by his elbow and feeding advice.
00:12:18.920The problem is that when I see that the statements are rising on the back of that advice, I can't help but disagree with it.
00:12:27.400Look, the point about the military industrial complex, it's basically the wolf, right, in Little Red Riding Hood.
00:12:34.760And you're basically you're there at the end of the nursery rhyme saying, Grandma, what big teeth do you have?
00:12:40.800And that is the fear that the American taxpaying public should have towards this huge industry.
00:12:49.300And you asked me how you get you get you asked me how you get to this situation where you can pretty much write off every single congressman and every, you know,
00:12:57.280your old colleagues and every single senator, bar one or two exceptions, because they're just that these people are bought and paid for by all the various interests and lobbies.
00:13:09.100The only voice in American politics today that is genuinely trying to represent the interests of the ordinary, non-politically aligned taxpayer, the ordinary, regular working guy is MAGA.
00:13:24.660And the only person, the only person that I would suggest in elected office that this movement has pushed forward is the president himself.
00:28:14.180And how long were you, you were a professional at the CIA for how long?
00:28:18.560I was undercover at CIA for 20 years and another 10 after that with other parts of the intelligence community.
00:28:25.300So, Sam, when you wrote, what, 12, 14 years ago is Beyond Repair.
00:28:33.440Given that as a baseline, where is the CIA today on the baseline it was Beyond Repair a dozen years ago, sir?
00:28:42.000So, you know, leaving aside for the moment issues about politicization and DEI and so forth.
00:28:50.040CIA basically hardly has a pulse these days.
00:28:54.060I mean, if you talk to guys inside, as I do all the time, the level of operational activity, maybe they're moving at 10 percent of the speed they did when I was there in terms of numbers of assets and collection of intelligence.
00:29:09.900So this is one of the great challenges, Steve, is that, you know, after we break the place and fire a bunch of people, I hope, and regain control and get them away from American politics, et cetera, building a viable organization that actually keeps Americans safe in their beds at night is going to be a challenge.
00:29:31.680They're almost out of business overseas.
00:29:33.900Now, they're really good at still meddling in politics in Washington, D.C., but you want to ask them, what's the exact status of the Iranian nuclear weapons program right now?
00:29:45.980Don't think you're going to get much in the way of grit or detail.
00:29:49.280Were they caught unaware on October 7th with the CIA on top of things?
00:29:56.240They have partners in the Middle East.
00:29:59.660They have, was it Shen, whatever, the Israeli military intelligence, which I think the insiders will say is Shen Ben is better than Mossad.
00:30:14.200You've got some pretty good intelligence services, or at least they purport to be the elite of the elite.
00:30:20.320How were all those elites, including CIA and DNI, what's the probability?
00:30:26.020It almost seems beyond comprehension that they were all caught totally unawares of a ragtag Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, that did a, you know, air-sea land battle over 40 miles.
00:30:38.180Sir, that at least took them two years to train for?
00:30:40.220Yeah, it is almost beyond comprehension because, again, this was a massive assault.
00:30:45.380So it's not like six guys in a basement cooked up an idea overnight.
00:30:51.860I mean, one is it's great to rely on the Israelis or the Jordanians or whoever, but at best, at best, assuming they're telling you the truth, that means the only thing you know is what the Israelis and the Jordanians know.
00:31:05.060So you need to collect your own intelligence in addition to that.
00:31:10.220And I've seen this multiple times in my career where we actually had a better sense from our sources than the guys on the ground.
00:31:19.040I think the problem with the Israelis is this is how we get in these intelligence failures.
00:31:23.040People at the top had arrived at a conclusion that Hamas had walked away from the idea of this kind of attack.
00:31:33.040And then since the people at the top arrived at that conclusion, then every piece of evidence that is provided to them by intel, they cherry pick it.
00:31:42.600You know, we've seen this over and over, right?
00:31:44.860You reach your conclusion first and then you look at the evidence, ignore what doesn't fit with your preconceived notion.
00:31:52.800And the next thing you know, you're well, you've got it and you're getting a surprise attack.
00:31:57.620And in the aftermath, you look at it and you say, look, there are stacks of intel here, man.
00:32:02.020I mean, we can go back to Pearl Harbor this way, right?
00:32:04.020The fact that the Japanese were going to stage a surprise attack and start the war had been contemplated for decades.
00:32:12.500And yet somehow we allowed them to do it.
00:32:31.140By the way, I think that's the press may be part of it being wrangled right now.
00:32:34.700So we should be getting closer to the king of Jordan arriving for an official visit with President Trump.
00:32:41.360As President Trump has put a 12 noon, high noon, Jerusalem time on Saturday for the return of all the hostages.
00:32:49.200Hostages, Sam, he says, and Dave, he believes they're all dead.
00:32:53.840But he wants a full accounting by noon or, quote, all hell is going to break loose, unquote.
00:32:58.560He's ratcheting it up a little bit there.
00:33:02.160So the interagency process, right, which is the way that everybody signs off on everything.
00:33:08.900And people should know that the National Security Council, they're seconded.
00:33:12.780These detaillees are called a seconded probably two-thirds to 75 percent of the National Security Council, which, by the way, folks, a lot of those are housed in that building.
00:33:23.120That's the executive office building, that building, the Eisenhower building is called now, it's really called the EOB, is inside the White House compound.
00:33:38.200That's where the vast majority of the White House staff, including the National Security Council, some of the top officials are next to the president.
00:33:46.120A couple are – there are some down in the actual military command center.
00:33:51.660The interagency process, Sam, is where I believe the CIA controls the deal because the CIA has people everywhere, DHS, DOJ, FBI, Defense Department.
00:34:06.460Well, I think it has been the case for a long time, and it's just getting worse all the time.
00:34:10.760And they do exert a tremendous amount of influence, not – they're pervasive, but also they constantly retreat behind this curtain of that's classified.
00:34:20.400So they say things in meetings like, it's our assessment that such and such, and that sounds as if it's based in something significant and carries this weight and this aura.
00:34:31.600And, you know, in most of those meetings, nobody then says, stop talking to me about your assessment.
00:34:39.760Who's the source that you're relying on?
00:34:42.260Exactly what is his access and how the hell does he actually know any of that?
00:34:46.860Because in a shocking number of cases, what you're going to find is you're relying almost on what we would call rummant.
00:34:54.420You've got a source who heard it thirdhand from a guy that may or may not be telling the truth in the first place.
00:35:00.500But because it's classified in air quotes, nobody asks those questions ever.
00:35:07.080And it gives them a tremendous amount of leverage.
00:35:09.480I mean, everything that goes on with CIA and this administration needs to get down to brass tacks.
00:35:14.720I mean, Radcliffe and company over there need to be saying, stop talking to me about the status of the Iranian nuclear program.
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00:41:08.820But what would your recommendation be both to the Doge leaders and to Elon Musk himself about what you would recommend he would do with the intelligence community, especially the CIA?
00:41:22.660Well, look, more broadly, when it comes to the intelligence community, my opinion has always been could start by getting rid of the D&I and that entire layer of bureaucracy.
00:42:38.180How the heck is it that four or five years, whatever it is, after COVID, you still can't tell me where the frigging disease came from with any certainty?
00:42:47.000How is it that you were incapable of warning us about that?
00:42:51.240That's your real job, not to do postmortems five years later, but to tell us that they're developing a biological weapon.
00:43:00.160How many people did you fire after COVID and you didn't have any penetrations of the Wuhan lab, apparently, because you provided no warning?
00:43:32.320My point is hundreds of billions of dollars of the U.S. government have gone in that this is the modern weapon.
00:43:37.760As much as biological warfare and chemical warfare, this artificial intelligence warfare is changing the face of warfare.
00:43:43.520How could the CIA, my understanding is that our entire intelligence community, once again, was caught by surprise by some advance of Chinese technology, which was predicated upon stuff they stole out of American universities and companies.
00:44:00.720Well, I think the short version is they're not being made to answer these questions, but they 100% should be, right?
00:44:11.820Let's go back to when CIA—I mean, in the aftermath of World War II, when the OSS morphed into being CIA.
00:44:18.900That's a little simplistic, but let's just go with that.
00:44:21.500Okay, what was the central reason so that we would never experience another Pearl Harbor?
00:44:26.840That was the reason for the existence of it.
00:44:28.800OSS was set up—that was a gentleman's—that was while Bill Donovan, who was a famous lawyer close to FDR, he put together basically a group of action-oriented lawyers, investment bankers, principally Ivy League.
00:44:41.360That would be some kind of, you know, league of involved gentlemen in World War II to be commandos, spies, all of that.
00:44:49.220And they had this kind of daring-do and legendary run in World War II.
00:44:53.500And then at the end of World War II, understanding we had had many intelligence failures, folks, the intelligence failures in World War II were legendary, and we had broken a bunch of codes.
00:45:44.000And we added, in classic Washington fashion, we added another layer of bureaucracy on top of this, created the DNI, built a bunch of new buildings, and put a bunch of people in front of flat screen computer screens, you know, computer screens, and said, that's how we'll fix it.
00:46:02.900What fixes it—what would have fixed it would be sources inside al-Qaeda in advance of that attack who would have told you what was coming, and you could have stopped it.
00:46:13.120And by the way, I have seen that happen on the ground.
00:46:16.020I have been in places where I was running shops where officers did precisely that, penetrated a terrorist group.
00:46:21.640And you never heard about the terrorist attack because it never happened, because CIA did its job.
00:46:27.380But clearly, on a strategic level, they are failing.
00:46:30.420And that, again, you can't say to the same crowd of guys that have gotten us there, okay, let's change things.
00:46:39.700I mean, you have to start by changing the folks.
00:46:47.320That beautiful picture you see right there from our camera of Real America's Voice is—that's the executive office building on the White House campus.
00:46:54.520Right to your left is the portico in the driveway, circular driveway that comes up to the west wing.
00:47:00.760This is the kind of the formal entrance for dignitaries and heads of state and important people come to see the president.
00:47:07.440They go through—there's a small reception area of the Roosevelt Room.
00:47:11.900The famous Roosevelt Room is right next to that.
00:47:14.600They're led right over to the Oval Office.
00:47:17.820These are called bilats and short-term bilateral meetings.
00:48:55.180I mean, yesterday, if you were with us for the evening show, Brian Glenn and the folks were in, the Real America's Voice team were in for the signing of the executive order.
00:49:24.880He's a president of peace and prosperity.
00:49:27.440And if he's got to enforce that a little bit, he's going to enforce it.
00:49:30.420So he's got his negotiators over in the Ukraine right now or they're at the Munich Security Conference.
00:49:36.280I think Zelensky is going to meet with J.D. Vance, Pete Hegsus over there.
00:49:41.280I think there are going to be a couple other cabinet officials maybe haven't been announced yet.
00:49:44.480President Trump's putting a big deal as General Kellogg.
00:49:47.180You heard Ben Harnwell, who's watching this wall to wall a few minutes ago.
00:49:50.920Jordan, Sam, and Dave, as you know, is a whole different deal.
00:49:54.800I mean, if you've seen the movie Lawrence of Arabia, that magnificent desert that first plays is all – that's the Jordanian desert that's right on the border of Israel.
00:50:04.220It's absolutely a magnificent country.
00:50:07.040In fact, this royal family, I think, has been there since World War I, Sam, I believe.
00:50:11.980The British installed them over basically a population that was, you know, Palestinians or the people from this area of the world.
00:50:20.420That's why I think two-thirds of their population already are what we refer to as Palestinians.
00:50:25.540President Trump says, hey, look, we're just not going to – this is not internal recurrence.
00:50:29.680We're not just going to do this over and over and over again.
00:50:33.020I'm here for my second term, and we're going to do things differently, right?
00:50:36.680And he's saying, hey, what I want to do is have basically Egypt take a million, the Jordanians take a million, and we're going to take what is basically Dresden in 1945 or Tokyo in 1945, kind of bombed out, and we're going to rehabilitate it, and we're going to do a world city with this great beach French property.
00:50:59.540You've had tons of local people, Sam and Dave, local officials.
00:51:03.360I think that Jordanians said, hey, we don't know if we're that excited about this.
00:51:07.520Unfortunately, I believe 75 percent of Jordan's budget comes from the United States government or United States government affiliates.
00:51:15.580So it's going to be a tough discussion, although the president thinks very highly of the king of Jordan.
00:51:22.160You know, Jordan's had a great relationship with the United States for many, many, many decades.
00:51:26.040The president thinks very highly of him.
00:51:27.920But this will be a tough conversation, will it not, Sam Faddis?
00:51:30.560It is going to be a very tough conversation because, as I said, I mean, it's not just that the Jordanians on some level don't like the Palestinians, which is true, unfortunately.
00:51:44.660But they've had their problems with Palestinians causing violence on their soil.
00:51:50.520It's not a theoretical thing for them.
00:51:53.040I will say the Jordanians have been incredible friends in the United States for real in the field.
00:52:16.360Yeah, I mean, without going down roads that we can't go down on air.
00:52:21.480I mean, when I was in the field, our cooperation with the Jordanians was superb, probably on a par with the Israelis, quite frankly, and way out in front of other Arab states.
00:52:51.980I remember when you had the United Arab Emirates.
00:52:54.240You had, what, Egypt and Syria were under Nasser.
00:52:57.200They were kind of split, but you had Arab nationalism.
00:53:00.520Back when I was a kid delivering papers, you didn't really have this radical Islamic jihad.
00:53:05.140And Arab nationalism, I didn't think was, as a kid, didn't look that bad.
00:53:09.620It was looking at the Arab people trying to become, take their countries back, throw out the colonial powers, and kind of stand on their two legs, right?
00:53:16.780You saw in North Africa, you saw the Algerians turfed out the French.
00:53:21.720The Egyptians eventually turfed out the British in, you know, the Suez crisis.
00:53:58.160And in four years, Biden's policies managed to take that place to the situation it is now.
00:54:07.700I mean, let's keep in mind that, you know, looming behind all these other things we're talking about is the fact that, quite frankly, right now,
00:54:14.900either the Iranians already have nuclear weapons or they stand on the verge of that.
00:54:19.860So you're about to be witnessing a region with radical Islamic jihad and a whole bunch of nuclear weapons poured into the middle of it if we're not careful.
00:54:29.620And again, as I said earlier, if you're thinking that American intelligence has such a good handle on that,
00:54:35.360that they can tell you the exact state of play in that regard, you know, that's a fantasy.
00:54:40.700I mean, they may pretend that they do.
00:54:42.760The bottom line is they don't know that they don't already have the weapons.
00:54:45.600You see, as much as Israel is fixated on Persia, and I realize the Persians are bad hombres,
00:54:53.460I think the threat in the region, I just don't think people are getting it, is Turkey, Erdogan.
00:54:58.740He wants to reestablish the Ottoman Empire.
00:55:00.720He wants to reestablish the Caliphate.
00:55:02.480He wants to go back to basically World War I in the thousand years before that.
00:55:07.240With Qatar, who I think are the sleaziest guys there, they finance every, you know, they finance Muslim Brotherhood.
00:55:15.260They're the nest of vipers, and I don't care how many people take money from them, right?
00:55:19.240They're bad guys that are the financiers of radical Islamic jihad.
00:55:24.600And they hate UAE, and they hate Saudi Arabia, and their partners, the financing partner, Erdogan.
00:55:31.840And Erdogan's mission is to take control of the two holy sites.
00:55:35.260That's what the, you can't be a caliphate, a true caliphate, until you control the two holy sites.
00:55:41.320And I think this whole region is going to be in for decades and decades and decades of instability.
00:55:46.420As I tell people, it doesn't matter if Israel was there or not there.
00:55:50.000Israel, just another country, is going to get rolled up in this.
00:55:52.780These people, this, not Islam, but radical Islam, literally hates, hates the West, hates the Judeo-Christian West.
00:56:01.780And a lot of that, I think, precedes this.
00:56:05.120Like I said, when we took over in 16 and 17, Sam, we were doing kind of the changeover and looking in the head.
00:56:11.020It was near Palmyra, which is in Syria.
00:56:13.940And on 1,000 yards, you know, you had the Persian militias on one side with Hezbollah.
00:56:18.140You had the American Special Forces and CIA paramilitary with, like, the Syrian Free Army.
00:56:22.920And I saw it, you know, 2,500 years before, 3,000 years before Xenophon, the Greeks, the Romans.
00:56:29.500You got those beautiful Roman ruins right there.
00:56:31.840And I said, it hasn't changed in 3,000 years.
00:56:34.940It's either the Greeks or the Romans or the West and the Persians on the other side.
00:56:39.140And it's just, it's deeper than current politics.
00:56:41.880I don't think people understand how deep this is embedded into the region.
00:56:45.160That ancient history there is as relevant as something that happened on CNN last night to these folks, sir.
00:56:51.200Yeah, well, when I wrote my book about the CIA war in Kurdistan, about our experiences there in 02, 03, I include, the front page has a quote from Xenophon because it struck me when we were on the ground there, precisely what you just said, which is, man, people have been doing this for millennia out here.
00:57:11.040I think your point on Turkey is dead on.
00:57:13.100My wife, who was a retired career CIA officer and obviously much smarter than I, was pointing this out decades ago, and nobody wanted to hear from her, that this guy Erdogan is serious.
00:57:27.020And what he represents is a radical undoing of secular Turkey.
00:57:31.580And the implications for this region are catastrophic.
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