Bannon's War Room - April 25, 2025


Episode 4439： Trump Time Magazine Deal With It; Stopping The Hurricane Of Spenindig


Episode Stats

Length

55 minutes

Words per Minute

170.71503

Word Count

9,406

Sentence Count

733

Misogynist Sentences

1

Hate Speech Sentences

19


Summary


Transcript

00:00:00.000 Top of the hour, 7.02 here in New York, closing in on the first 100 days of President Trump's
00:00:05.300 second term in office. This morning, Time is out with an exclusive interview with the
00:00:10.000 commander-in-chief, where the president discusses a range of topics from his administration
00:00:14.640 following court orders to the future of Ukraine.
00:00:18.740 National political reporter for Time Magazine, Eric Cordelesa, writes,
00:00:21.980 asked if he had requested Bukele, that's the president of El Salvador,
00:00:24.820 to return Obrego Garcia over, Trump said he hadn't. I haven't been asked to ask him by my
00:00:31.680 attorneys, he says. Nobody asked me to ask him that question except you. As for the political
00:00:37.720 outcry over his refusal to return a man mistakenly sent to a foreign prison without due process,
00:00:42.340 Trump says he believed it will accrue to his advantage, quote, I think this is another men
00:00:47.140 and women's sports thing for the Democrats. Another part here that was fascinating has to do
00:00:53.300 with the situation surrounding tariffs and the idea of the administration trying to work out deals
00:00:58.780 within this 90-day framework with basically all the countries of the world. The president and his
00:01:04.740 team have said they've had 100 offers to make deals. They say they have 18 proposals in front
00:01:10.260 of them, roughly. And then you have a great line of questioning here. Let me read this.
00:01:14.340 Not one has been announced yet. When are you going to announce them? The president says,
00:01:19.940 I've made 200 deals. Then you ask, you've made 200 deals? And then the president says,
00:01:26.760 100%. And then you ask, I think shrewdly, can you share with whom? And then the president says,
00:01:33.460 because the deal is a deal that I choose, view it differently. We are a department store and we
00:01:41.340 set the price. Do you know what's going on here with his 200 deals that have been made?
00:01:48.240 I can't say that I do. I think there are negotiations underway. President Trump told
00:01:56.520 me in the conversation that he had spoken with Xi and that the Chinese were negotiating with the
00:02:03.560 Trump administration. Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnik and another senior administration official
00:02:08.020 also confirmed that to me. The Chinese deny it. But I think what I understood him to be saying was
00:02:15.940 that he has deals worked out in his mind with all of these countries and that they he believes that
00:02:22.920 they will ultimately, you know, basically acquiesce to the terms that he's laying out because he
00:02:29.560 believes that economic power of the United States and access to our markets is the leverage in order
00:02:34.980 to get them to come to some sort of deal. I don't I don't know if they're solidified yet. I don't know
00:02:39.520 if they're already made. But, you know, he says that within the next three to four weeks, he will be
00:02:45.240 announcing everything. Was there any sense of frustration on the part of the president? He said
00:02:50.540 he was going to end the war in Ukraine in a day. The war, he didn't do that. He said he was going to fix
00:02:55.660 the economy just like that. Of course, the economy hadn't been fixing. And in fact, we may be in a
00:03:01.800 recession that he seems to have brought on. Was there any frustration that he hasn't been able to
00:03:09.540 deliver on a lot of the things that he promised? You know, it's interesting because I asked about
00:03:12.920 the Ukraine thing. I said, you know, President Trump, you said you would solve this issue in a
00:03:16.600 day. You know, what's going on? And, you know, he said, oh, I said that in jest, Eric. Everybody knew
00:03:21.360 that that was, you know, symbolic. You know, I wasn't really saying it was I was going to get it done
00:03:26.260 in a day. This has been going on for three years. I've only been here in three months. So, you know,
00:03:30.140 I sensed that there was some frustration on his part. And I also think, you know,
00:03:34.880 he pulled back on that claim that he'd be able to solve the war in 24 hours. And of course,
00:03:40.420 he's not wrong that it's a very complicated. He's not wrong now that it's a very complicated issue
00:03:44.580 and it's hard to solve. And he's got intractable players, you know, in Vladimir Putin. But,
00:03:50.120 you know, I do think, you know, this is a different moment for him than the last time,
00:03:54.100 you know, I spoke with him because, you know, he is right now facing all of these these problems
00:03:59.440 that you're talking about. Asked if he'd like to be remembered for having expanded American
00:04:03.640 territory as president himself. Trump says, I wouldn't mind. Again, I think this might be
00:04:09.880 obvious if you listen to his territorial, you know, aspirations with Greenland, the Panama,
00:04:14.600 Panama, Panama Canal and whatnot. But still, it's pretty remarkable to hear a president say he wants
00:04:19.000 to expand territory. Yeah. I mean, you know, it's also, you know, noteworthy. We were in the Oval Office
00:04:24.860 and, you know, he has installed many, many more paintings of former presidents and in gold frames.
00:04:32.520 And there's one of James Polk who expanded territory as well. And I think, you know,
00:04:37.500 President Trump has said he wants to, you know, acquire Greenland. He wants to annex Canada. He
00:04:43.400 wants to seize control of the Panama Canal. And, you know, he basically sees himself as a president who
00:04:48.880 can grow the American empire, who can expand territory. And he said he certainly wouldn't
00:04:54.420 mind if that was part of his legacy.
00:04:55.700 This is the primal scream of a dying regime.
00:05:03.440 Pray for our enemies, because we're going medieval on these people.
00:05:08.660 I got a free shot. All these networks lying about the people, the people had a belly full
00:05:14.180 of it. I know you don't like hearing that. I know you've tried to do everything in the
00:05:17.400 world to stop that, but you're not going to stop it. It's going to happen.
00:05:20.020 And where do people like that go to share the big line? Mega Media. I wish in my soul,
00:05:26.760 I wish that any of these people had a conscience. Ask yourself, what is my task and what is my
00:05:33.140 purpose? If that answer is to save my country, this country will be saved.
00:05:40.360 War Room. Here's your host, Stephen K. Band.
00:05:43.740 It's Friday, 25 April, in the year of our Lord, 2025. We're still here in Kansas City,
00:05:55.200 Missouri, and had a really amazing time yesterday with the folks at Hillsdale College. Incredible
00:06:05.280 group of public intellectuals, faculty, other thinkers, Claremont, all that. Of course,
00:06:11.580 we had Sean Davis and Chris Caldwell on last night to join us before the dinner. I gave a speech last
00:06:19.760 night to an audience that I think was listening. We talked about the converging crises. I want to
00:06:27.580 really promote something this morning, if Grace and Moe would push it out, the cover of Time Magazine,
00:06:32.100 if we could get that up, that Time Magazine cover with President Trump. And it's this 100-day
00:06:38.520 interview with Eric Coracella, the national political correspondent for Time, who we know
00:06:44.640 pretty well. And he's done an incredible interview. Now I've been on Morning Joe and CNN. I understand
00:06:52.880 he's going to do Caitlin Collins tonight. Really tough questioning. A good question, fair questions,
00:06:58.960 tough questions. And President Trump's responses are pretty amazing. I wanted to
00:07:04.520 discuss about President Polk. President Polk, you know, is an amazing president and one of the most
00:07:13.060 effective presidents we've ever had. Really, one of the key figures in our country about manifest destiny
00:07:20.660 and about the building of the country as a continental power. Very controversial, only ran one term.
00:07:29.000 President Trump does have a portrait of him up there, along with Jackson and others. And, you know,
00:07:37.280 and, of course, General Washington. It is extraordinary that Eric picked up on that and discussed it with
00:07:45.060 the president, that the president's got a real, you know, well-thought-through strategy here. People are not
00:07:51.980 paying enough attention, I don't think, including people at the Pentagon, I might add, given their budget,
00:07:56.820 about President Trump's concept of hemispheric defense. This is the way that gets us away from
00:08:02.740 trillion dollar defense budgets and being spread out over hell's half acre, like having two carrier
00:08:08.760 battle groups in the Red Sea to keep the Suez Canal open and to bomb the Houthis back to the Stone Age,
00:08:18.240 where they've been living for a long time, beating the Egyptian army, beating the Saudis, essentially
00:08:23.640 beating UAE, that were kind of under contract with the Saudis for years. Polk had a very different
00:08:29.240 vision of America. President Trump's got a very different vision for this country. That's where
00:08:33.740 this hemispheric defense is so big. And you talk about the converging crises. One, and let's go to
00:08:38.940 that again, is this stopping the kinetic part of the Third World War, which has already started.
00:08:45.200 President Trump is doing his best there, his utmost. He's very blunt with this guy about stopping
00:08:53.960 Ukraine. I think you see the subtext in there that President Trump is fully aware of the issue of
00:09:03.580 getting sucked in too much. You read this interview and look what President Trump's been saying. He's
00:09:08.920 there for a time. Look, they're trying to do a big overall Russian rapprochement, and that will be
00:09:16.280 part of it. But, you know, Putin the other day unloading on Kiev, Zelensky and others being slow
00:09:23.260 walking the economic deal, and that's supposed to be done. There's all kind of talk of a joint press
00:09:28.860 conference, and Zelensky's going to do this, Zelensky's going to do that. But you can tell
00:09:33.640 President Trump's patience on this is not unlimited. And you look at the second part, the deportation of
00:09:41.560 the 10 million illegal alien invaders that came in on Biden's watch, already jammed up at the,
00:09:48.340 essentially at the Supreme Court. As I said in the speech last night, the constitutional crisis part of
00:09:54.060 this, and this is what they're trying to do to stop the deportation of the 10 million. The criminals,
00:09:59.360 obviously the criminal element, and President Trump doing his commander in chief for our national
00:10:04.620 security is self-evident that's the right thing to do. But that's, I don't know, 100,000, maybe a
00:10:10.320 couple hundred thousand. And hey, all of them got to go. All of them have to go. But they're doing
00:10:17.100 this to jam us up, to jam the president up so we never get to the 10 million. We lose our will,
00:10:22.660 our focus. It's just too tough. There's too many, you know, there's too many empathetic videos,
00:10:32.820 sympathetic videos cut by CNN, as you try to deport the families, which you're going to have to do,
00:10:39.320 right? If they're here illegally, they got to go back, or you're never going to have the rule of
00:10:42.540 law in this country. You're never going to really secure the border. President Trump secured it right
00:10:46.060 now. But if President Trump was not around, what would happen? Even if you built the wall.
00:10:52.500 So, because it's all about intent and focus. President Trump has secured the border,
00:10:56.600 I don't know, in 60 days, 65, 70 days, with Langford and these guys told us it was going to
00:11:00.980 take decades. And they had to pass all this new legislation. You had to have all this new money
00:11:06.360 spent. So the interview is also one of the things that's very important. Two parts of the interview,
00:11:12.060 President Trump, they talk about the tax increases. And President Trump, Newt Gingrich and Grover
00:11:18.460 Norquist, is a lot more amenable to it in this interview. He kind of says it's the right thing
00:11:24.160 to do. His only concern, his only concern says, hey, look, we're going to have to do something.
00:11:30.800 And he's favorable to it. He says his concern still falls back to the Bush thing, because it hasn't
00:11:35.700 been properly explained. Bush raised taxes for everybody. This is a massive tax cut
00:11:40.900 for people. And you've got to figure out how to pay for it. But the buried lead that people
00:11:46.020 really haven't picked up on, he says it in context of Bush losing the election and how it would hurt
00:11:53.500 President Trump politically on his own side. Politically, I thought he was termed out,
00:12:00.100 not in his mind. His answer on the taxes relates directly, and this is easy to overcome,
00:12:07.600 very easy to overcome. But it's in response to his running again in 2028. I don't think it's a
00:12:16.940 random occurrence because President Trump doesn't do things randomly, that you launched the merch
00:12:22.960 yesterday of Trump 2028 on his official merchandising store and tees and ball caps and other things,
00:12:30.880 other swag. At the same time, knew that the time interview would be out, would be out, would be
00:12:39.040 out today. And then that answer, anybody that's been involved in politics at all says, hey, this guy's
00:12:45.980 thinking through his reelect and seeing if this would hurt him or help him. Just saying. Trump 28,
00:12:54.000 2028 is, it's happening. It's happening. And you can tell he's into it. He would never have answered
00:13:02.460 that question the way he answered about taxes, which makes me feel good because on the tax side,
00:13:08.140 the math just doesn't work. If the Pentagon, back to President Trump's hemispheric defense,
00:13:13.460 the Pentagon and Pete and you guys need to shift your budget to the hemispheric defense,
00:13:18.900 because it's still a budget that looks at the Eurasian landmass. That's something the United
00:13:27.120 States has to defend. Not so sure about that. I think that's an open question. Obviously,
00:13:34.500 the South China Sea and around Korea and Japan, a little different. But I'm talking about in the
00:13:39.200 Middle East and in NATO and in places like Ukraine, complete, total new rethink.
00:13:46.340 This interview is amazing. We're going to talk more about it today throughout the day and break
00:13:52.920 it down. I want everybody to read it. Really, in this interview, there's another Matt Gaetz and I
00:13:59.880 gotta give a hat tip to Matt. And this is why, you know, think about what Matt Gaetz could have been
00:14:05.560 if he'd stuck it out for AG. The whole Seacott deal, the brainchild of Matt Gaetz. That's what a
00:14:14.060 brilliant young man he is. Incredible guy. You read the Seacott section of this, it's just
00:14:19.180 absolutely incredible. How Matt Gaetz is always a guy thinking downrange, thinking downrange.
00:14:25.260 And the Seacott thing is absolutely brilliant. That would be the prison down in El Salvador
00:14:30.000 with these terrorist murderers, rapists, criminals that President Trump is commander-in-chief sent down.
00:14:37.120 Okay. Short commercial break. Johnny Kahn's going to take us out. We're absolutely packed today,
00:14:41.280 all throughout the day, here in Kansas City at the Hillsdale Conference, Leadership Conference.
00:14:48.440 Very proud of that. And we're going to have someone who's speaking, David Malpass, who is head of the
00:14:53.680 World Bank under President Trump. He's going to join us here in a moment.
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00:16:06.860 secure your financial future today with gold. Here's your host, Stephen K. Bannon.
00:16:15.300 Okay, welcome back. A little bit of an international incident. By the way, David Malpass joins me right
00:16:24.300 here. David Malpass was Undersecretary at Treasury of International Finance in President Trump, early
00:16:31.100 part of the term, and then later became head of the World Bank, appointed by President Trump, correct?
00:16:35.020 That's right.
00:16:35.360 David Malpass, old friend, one of the best guys in international finance. We're going to get it up
00:16:39.160 here in a minute. In the interview by Eric Coracella for Time Magazine, the cover of President
00:16:45.220 Trump's first 100 days, it's quite controversial because they get into it about China, and President
00:16:50.160 Trump says, hey, look, I'm doing all these deals. We got them stacked up, and we're engaged with China.
00:16:56.180 Andrew Ross Sorkin's just been on Squawk saying, the Chinese are saying, hey, there's no talks. We
00:17:02.200 don't know what this guy's talking about, and he's got to stop sowing international confusion.
00:17:07.400 When I talk about, in the talk last night about the Chinese, and they have gained the system
00:17:14.220 on the World Trade Organization and being the most favored nation, the cyber deal that
00:17:19.080 in 2015 that Obama cut, they never fulfilled. In 2019, or in 2017, then the whole 2019, the
00:17:29.400 Hong Kong situation, then you guys, you, Navarro, and Lighthizer's the tip of the spear, spent
00:17:37.240 two years working on really a major deal that would solve everything, the seven deadly sins
00:17:42.860 for two years. And at the end of the day, in May of 2019, they just kind of walked away
00:17:48.180 from it, right? Well, neither are fairly well.
00:17:51.440 That's right. And, you know, in the campaign in 2016, this was a major issue.
00:17:55.700 Major.
00:17:55.900 So it was no surprise when it started in 2017. It kind of launched for me at Treasury, working
00:18:01.960 for Mnuchin and for Trump. And then as it broadened, then Lighthizer and Navarro were heavily
00:18:06.840 involved, and it became also Wilbur Ross at Commerce. The 301 was the, the Section 301 trade
00:18:13.740 was the, was the clincher because China negotiated moment by moment. So this idea of them saying
00:18:20.900 Trump is sowing confusion is part of their negotiations. They're really hard negotiators.
00:18:27.400 So it's got to be Trump up against them knowing this is exactly how people do it. They say,
00:18:33.240 you say, we're talking because we're trying to get toward a deal. And they say, we're not
00:18:37.280 even talking. Well, that's a negotiation right there.
00:18:40.300 Go back in that time. It wasn't a surprise, particularly when it came to the campaign.
00:18:43.940 It wasn't just a southern border. For those northern states, it was about the manufacturing
00:18:47.480 jobs. This has always been part of his, not just populism, but his economic nationalism.
00:18:52.840 It resonated with people in Pennsylvania, in Ohio, in Michigan, in Wisconsin. You could
00:18:56.960 tell that. I tell people, we go to these rallies, and what would take me an hour to explain to
00:19:02.240 guys at Goldman Sachs, because they say, no, we're just investing there. I said, it's a
00:19:07.280 two-liner in Akron, Ohio, how they've shipped all the jobs, and these guys get it. So immediately,
00:19:13.160 we had Xi come to Mar-a-Lago. We started those negotiations very, very, very soon after kind of
00:19:20.460 a speed bump was hit in June of 2017. Then you guys got fully engaged in it. But the Chinese spent
00:19:27.520 two years with you guys, two years, in a very, very detailed, comprehensive, this would couple the
00:19:36.200 two economies, and integrate China with all kind of environmental rules and labor rules and about
00:19:41.800 state-owned industries and the deflationary pricing they send around because of excess capacity.
00:19:48.380 And Li He was the lead negotiator. And after two years, they literally just walked away from it.
00:19:54.140 I think that's part of the problem. If you go slow, and you're talking about hundreds of pages,
00:19:58.300 and then all of a sudden, it's thousands of pages. And no one actually, or you question whether
00:20:04.380 they actually intend to do it. That was actually part of the NAFTA problem, that it started as the
00:20:09.760 idea of benefits. And then all of a sudden, it became the lawyers, and it became huge. So by 1992,
00:20:16.540 I had gone to the White House to say, this has to stop. We're not getting what we want out of this
00:20:23.060 deal. There are too many lawyers. It was about 92 for NAFTA. Remember George H. W?
00:20:29.160 Yes. Yes. Let the negotiations get really big. And so I think we have to look at it in a different
00:20:35.760 way now, that the system is broken, and there has to be a way that people can understand what's
00:20:42.380 being fixed. You know, I was a Tea Partier in 2010. In 2010, people across the country knew that there
00:20:50.300 was a giant problem. Unfortunately, that didn't get the job done. It wasn't until 2016, as Trump was
00:20:56.400 coming in, that you could have some light at the end of the tunnel of what was going to be done.
00:21:01.620 But even now, we're facing people, you know, across the government, people are trying to have a
00:21:09.040 resistance to the change that's needed. It's still the global order is dominant. The elites are
00:21:15.820 dominant. And that's what you're talking about in 2018, 2019. It just wasn't working. And China
00:21:24.060 knows what it's doing. It's delaying and delaying.
00:21:26.940 Okay, hang on. You're one of the best experts in the world on international finance, and certainly
00:21:32.700 in the MAGA movement and in the Trump circles, you're in the top handful. When I gave this talk
00:21:38.260 at the Summer for World Economic Summit in D.C. now, they're trying to make that like the Davos
00:21:43.340 of D.C. had all these international financiers. And we talked about Trump's reordering of the
00:21:49.560 commercial aspects of get off mercantilist systems. And let's get back to a fair, at least
00:21:54.380 a fair trade system. And I said, when people talk to me about this, I said, so can't happen.
00:22:00.080 I said, give me the plan we have now is not sustainable. Do you agree with that? I mean,
00:22:04.980 the plan we have of spending $7 trillion, of raising taxes of four and a half or five,
00:22:09.600 of having $2 trillion a year in deficits that Scott Besant has to finance, that's running out of
00:22:15.640 control. Interest is over almost $1.5 trillion. The raw interest, we pay $1.4 trillion. This system
00:22:22.680 is not sustainable for us as a business model. You agree with that? Absolutely right. And the world
00:22:27.340 sees that our small businesses across the U.S. know that it's absolutely not working. The bigger
00:22:34.660 companies get the capital, and they snarf up the innovation. And so there's a lack of dynamism,
00:22:42.220 even in the U.S. But it's, I got to tell you, it's worse in other parts of the world.
00:22:47.060 Of course, there's less dynamism.
00:22:48.540 Less dynamism. The IMF just did this. I'm not an IMF fan. You know, I've written all about
00:22:53.360 remove the shackles of the IMF from the poor countries where they run austerity programs.
00:23:00.260 But they put out their numbers this week. There's this big shindig in Washington, you know,
00:23:04.380 people from all over the world coming in to see how much money they can make from the system.
00:23:08.860 Is that what it is? Because we picked up Besson's speech live when he was reading the Rite Act.
00:23:14.320 Why is that IMF World Bank kind of joint meeting or whatever, why is it so big?
00:23:19.100 It's because it's the annual meetings, but the money is flowing constantly from it. So Besson's
00:23:25.720 trying to stand up in front of a hurricane of spending and say, hey, we've got to try to downsize
00:23:31.940 and think about your mission. But what's going on under the surface across Washington is how do we get
00:23:37.380 more money out of taxpayers and out of the system? They want the appropriations from the U.S. to
00:23:42.560 continue. They want new capital increases. And above all, they're doing credit guarantees across the
00:23:49.280 board. And so it's, in effect, nationalizing the losses of particularly of China. So, you know,
00:23:57.720 China's lent all this money, never takes a loss. And it gets in the end guaranteed by the
00:24:03.680 international system. The one belt, one road, the predatory capitalism, the kind of what we call
00:24:09.760 the British East India Company in reverse, all the predatory loans that they're making. You're
00:24:15.180 telling me that the IMF and world and other institutions supported by American taxpayers
00:24:19.580 support their basically give them loan guarantees. Yeah. So look what happened in Argentina. Here's this
00:24:26.540 bailout. The first one paid off is all of China's loans to Argentina. But that's going on as a system,
00:24:33.980 meaning in Zambia, China gets the mine plus it gets all its loans repaid with interest. And so it's been
00:24:41.520 very profitable for China. And the project itself or the Zambian government can't do it. So the loan
00:24:47.360 guarantee is essentially U.S. taxpayers doing it? Correct. And now what they're doing is in order to get
00:24:53.080 China away, they pay them off with loan guarantees. And so that in effect internationalizes or
00:25:01.980 multilateralizes the debt system. So China looks at the whole world system and says, this is a great
00:25:10.200 global order. We've got to protect it. They do that in the G20 where they're a dominant player.
00:25:15.020 One thing I'm hoping is that the U.S. ends the G20 after next year hosting it, you know,
00:25:20.820 host the final meeting. You want to end it? I think we should end it. It doesn't work because
00:25:25.840 it like the WTO is the World Trade Organization is a consensus process where you're expecting all
00:25:33.920 you've diluted, fully diluted the U.S. stature and status by saying we're going to have one vote.
00:25:41.720 Each country has a vote. And in the G20, that means China and Russia and Argentina and South Africa
00:25:47.480 have equal – and Brazil have equal votes to the U.S., which doesn't work at all as a global system.
00:25:54.300 So where do you think we stand now in the reordering of this so that it works for not just
00:25:59.960 the country of America but American citizens? Where do you think we stand in this whole
00:26:05.500 negotiation, the reordering to an order that works for us?
00:26:08.600 Here's the challenge, and you named it, that the amount of debt and the unsustainability of the U.S.
00:26:14.900 government spending is really hard to stop. So you've got – I call it an upheaval. And that's what I
00:26:20.860 wrote for Trump in September of 2016, that we need to recognize the positive side of having a full
00:26:29.460 upheaval. That means of the Federal Reserve, of the trade system, of course, but downsizing each part of
00:26:36.480 the U.S. government, whether it's the education or the housing or the EPA and its overreach of
00:26:42.960 regulations. So that's all ongoing. But as you can see, the resist movement is so strong.
00:26:51.100 You mean the Washington Consensus Institutional Resist Movement because they got the – they just – the
00:26:55.780 top 19 families just created or just got a trillion dollars of wealth in the last – in the last, like,
00:27:01.520 since the beginning of the year. So the system works for them.
00:27:05.500 They benefit, and they use litigation. And Washington right now today is getting rich on
00:27:12.140 the fight that's going on to try to downsize. Some people say, well, you can make a lot of money by
00:27:17.320 upsizing. Like all the public money that's going to universities, you make huge amounts. Washington
00:27:22.660 is the lobbyist that get the appropriation. But then you make just as much money trying to resist
00:27:28.540 it on the downside. Hang on one second. You're stuck with us. David Mount.
00:27:32.520 I'm a head of the World Bank and Undersecretary of International Finance in the first Trump term.
00:27:39.600 Take your phone out. Text Bannon, B-A-N-N-O-N-9-8-9-8-9-8. Birch Gold, the ultimate guide,
00:27:47.300 totally free, ultimate guide to investing in gold and precious metals in the era. Trump, remember,
00:27:51.260 it's not the price of gold. It's the process. Why has gold been a hedge for 4,000, 5,000 years
00:27:58.080 of mankind's history? Short commercial break. Back to Kansas City, Missouri.
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00:29:37.380 The embassy just said they are not having any talks on tariffs and that the U.S. should stop
00:29:43.740 creating confusion. Now, just a bit of a reminder, this Time Magazine piece came out literally at 6
00:29:49.960 a.m. this morning. It was an interview with President Trump. That interview, though,
00:29:54.040 took place apparently on Tuesday. So here we are on Friday. It's been a roller coaster of a week,
00:29:59.320 and so many different things have been said, both by the president and his Treasury Secretary,
00:30:03.200 Scott Bessent, and others. But the one thing that has been consistent thus far is that China,
00:30:08.540 at least publicly, has said that there have been no talks whatsoever. And of course,
00:30:13.140 there's also the IMF meetings.
00:30:16.680 Okay, that's Andrew Rorserkin. You know him very well. Squawk Box. Here's the international
00:30:21.580 incident that has come up. President Trump gave the Time Magazine interview Tuesday. It's all over.
00:30:27.840 It came out today, this morning, 6 a.m. He says in there, they're having conversations. And I think
00:30:33.700 he says Xi picked up the phone and called him. And the Chinese are out. And you've negotiated with
00:30:38.600 them. They're coming out and saying there's no talks. We're not talking to Bessent. We're not
00:30:41.960 talking to Trump. We're not talking to anybody. And the foreign devils are trying to sow confusion.
00:30:47.700 Confusion. Your thoughts? Confusion and uncertainty is part of the system. And to get to an answer,
00:30:53.680 you have to kind of break the system that we're in, which is that people talk quietly to each other
00:30:58.660 and get nothing done. And so Trump's doing it publicly and saying we're going to get this done
00:31:03.240 with deadlines. And so the question to me is, if you've got the trading system broken,
00:31:09.640 what can you get out of it country by country? And I think that's what's going on on the table right
00:31:14.680 now. They're supposed to come forward with proposals to get out of the – to get back
00:31:20.740 into the U.S. market. You've done this before. This is Tuesdays, the day President Trump gave the
00:31:27.480 interview. We've referred this a number of times. The Financial Times from the other day,
00:31:32.120 as you know, have held this up. Beijing warns of retaliation against nations doing U.S. deals.
00:31:37.480 Part of the deals are going to have embedded in there that we're kind of your lead trading partner.
00:31:42.720 And, you know, you'll make special accommodations with us and we'll make special accommodations
00:31:47.100 with you. Beijing has let – no, particularly the East Asian countries in India, you know,
00:31:52.020 Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Philippines, Vietnam, and India, you know, no bueno, right? So your thoughts?
00:32:01.120 Beijing has lots of influence in countries, you know, ambassadors that are fully inserted into
00:32:07.320 the countries. The mainstream media really likes that because they can play up the China side of
00:32:12.820 it, and it's very anti-Trump in its nature. But what's happening kind of in the bureaucracy of the
00:32:20.340 world is they're trying to Trump-proof. And so that goes with –
00:32:24.200 What do you mean Trump? What do you mean Trump-proof?
00:32:25.580 Trump-proof means –
00:32:26.500 We see how the Democrats try to do it. We see how they're trying to do it here,
00:32:30.260 how they try to do it overseas.
00:32:31.140 You move the money from where it can be clawed back by the U.S. to where it can't be clawed
00:32:37.180 back by the U.S.
00:32:37.960 Wow. Walk us through that. So these guys are – when they see Trump coming to power,
00:32:41.520 it's – let's make sure we're beyond Trump's reach as far as sanctions go and as far as
00:32:46.080 the SWIFT system.
00:32:47.460 That's right. And, you know, the Biden people knew exactly how to do that. They'd done that
00:32:53.020 in the Obama – it was the same people doing the same thing, which is you set up trust funds,
00:32:57.840 move the money into the trust fund, and write the governance rules of the trust fund so that
00:33:02.300 the U.S. can't get the money – so that Trump can't get the money back. But that's going on even
00:33:06.780 now. You know, WHO was out. Did you see them saying they're downsizing? And then you read the
00:33:11.620 fine print. It says from 76 departments to 34 departments. So here you've got this organization
00:33:17.760 in Geneva, a very high-priced part of the world.
00:33:20.900 That we've pulled out of and not for a year. And the CCP essentially runs.
00:33:26.500 But they already took all the U.S. money. And so they've got some in the bank. And then
00:33:32.600 they're saying, well, we're going to downsize and eat by, and China will step up and keep
00:33:36.860 it going. And so that's going on in the United Nations. A huge problem.
00:33:41.280 You know, the organizations have spread across the whole world, and they're deeply embedded.
00:33:47.460 And so in order to do the work to right-size, to downsize and make it in the U.S. national
00:33:54.540 interest is going to be really hard. That's the point I was making, or that we were just
00:34:03.100 doing, is on trade, the customs line items – and China's going to play this game.
00:34:08.980 They're going through the types of products, and they match it up with districts in the U.S.
00:34:16.080 They advertise that they're chopping off a given congressman. And then they come back
00:34:21.060 and tell them exactly what happened to them. Your favorite donors just got screwed. And
00:34:25.900 so it will be, you know, full-out battle.
00:34:29.160 It's micro-targeting economic warfare.
00:34:31.780 That's right. And they're masters. They've got big data. They know how to do it. And
00:34:35.160 they went through it in 2017. So one problem is they're going to be even harsher. This is
00:34:41.500 against their background of their predatory industrial policy. So, you know, this is not
00:34:47.720 a small problem for economics. How do you run a world when the second biggest economy has
00:34:53.680 a super-predatory industrial policy where their goal is to produce every product and
00:34:59.060 drive you out of the market through economy of scale?
00:35:01.780 Let's go through that for a second. What do you mean predatory industrial policy? Because
00:35:04.740 the Germans – some of the guys that were big talk understand now, like in the middle – was
00:35:09.560 it the middle – those middle companies that were the pride and joy of precision tooling
00:35:13.620 of Germany. Now the Germans understand what the industrial policy of China really is.
00:35:18.080 That's right. Now, that FT article, you know, one big problem is Europe is going to
00:35:23.040 be divided in terms of whether they want to –
00:35:26.340 Well, the EU said last night when I walked on the stage, right for the stage, they put
00:35:29.860 out a statement that said, hey, if you want us to be part of this, to decouple from China,
00:35:34.860 it's not going to happen.
00:35:36.500 Remember the weak knees. So I remember, one, Macron, it was in the same spot in the same
00:35:41.140 newspaper in 2019 when he'd gone to China thinking he was going to get a deal, came back,
00:35:46.040 said, I didn't really get a deal, so I'm mad at China. It was a big headline across Europe.
00:35:50.800 And then they backed off completely because they can't – they're not in a position to
00:35:55.660 decouple. But to your German point –
00:35:57.800 France is not.
00:35:58.380 France is not. Well, and Germany is, you know, what they've been doing because their energy
00:36:03.340 prices are so high because – I mean, think how many huge mistakes they made. They became
00:36:08.580 dependent on Soviet – on Russian oil – first Soviet oil and then Russian gas. And they
00:36:15.660 closed their nuclear power plants. So their energy costs go sky high.
00:36:19.480 They try to decarbonize. As an industrial power, they essentially deindustrialize by buying
00:36:24.140 into the cult of decarbonization.
00:36:25.960 And so exactly. Where did their factories go? They went to China because they burn coal.
00:36:30.420 They import it from Australia, burn coal to make the electricity, and they make the chemicals
00:36:34.800 for the world. It's a market that Germany used to have. So as Germany looks at it now,
00:36:39.680 what's happened on intellectual property is China systematically looked at the smaller
00:36:46.220 businesses that they needed from Germany, the ones that make machine tools, for example,
00:36:51.200 figured out how they could copy that in China, take the IP, and then do it in China. And so
00:36:56.800 then they undercut the market. So Germany's now standing really harmed by this, and it's going
00:37:03.460 to take work. That's the – I think we've got years of battle to really flatten the – to really
00:37:12.800 make a level playing field.
00:37:15.640 Go back to – and this is what I was trying to say last night. Given the decades that our
00:37:20.820 decision-makers have made horrible decisions, it's narrowed the range of alternatives that we
00:37:25.620 have. And we don't have any easy alternatives. That's what I was trying to say last night.
00:37:28.980 The converging crises here are multiple crises, and on none of them do we have easy alternatives.
00:37:35.320 And that's going to lead to a special group of – if you're hardened and you're tough,
00:37:39.720 you're going to – and ability to make hard decisions and live by them, you'll get through
00:37:43.840 this. If you're not, you're going to lose the country.
00:37:46.780 That's right. But I think that means that we have to focus on the things that we have to
00:37:51.000 have first. And so that means decisions by the president on which industries can be brought
00:37:57.840 back, and then which ones can stockpile and be prepared over the long run to really get
00:38:03.400 the job done.
00:38:04.180 You're saying triage it now.
00:38:05.840 I think it has to be triaged.
00:38:07.240 There's been a natural tendency to hate the concept of industrial policy in the United States,
00:38:13.000 although we do have industrial policy by our tax structure, right, essentially. Are you saying
00:38:18.680 we have more of an industrial policy that we have to think strategically about this?
00:38:22.740 I think we have to match the world. There's a little bit of reflexivity or reciprocity in that
00:38:28.740 if they're doing it. But Reagan – you know, I worked hard on this in the Reagan administration.
00:38:35.220 He made the distinction between industrial policy that would protect fat U.S. corporations,
00:38:41.860 and I'll name two – well, I'll name one because one still exists. But Kodak, remember,
00:38:46.760 was the biggest lobbyist. Instead of inventing new cameras, they were lobbying in D.C. He said no,
00:38:52.500 but he took on the Japanese on autos. And that really changed the industry.
00:38:57.440 So there was some decision-making – I mean, very important decision-making. Same thing in the
00:39:02.420 defense area. You know, there's a –
00:39:03.920 The other name wasn't U.S. Steel, was it?
00:39:05.260 No, it was not, though it could have been. I don't want to say the other name, but they're
00:39:10.880 active lobbying in D.C. today for more protection.
00:39:13.860 What about the defense industries? One of the things I've been all over is that we just can't – it's
00:39:20.320 obscene to me to have the EU come out and make a statement that they're not – they can't
00:39:25.680 consider decoupling, and their deal is going to reflect that. At the same time, we have two
00:39:30.880 carrier battle groups at the mouth of the Red Sea. One is for the Houthis and the whole Persian
00:39:35.440 and Arabian and Israeli, but the other is to keep the Suez Canal open for trade to Europe. And they've
00:39:41.980 got a Royal Navy frigate, a French Corvette, and an Italian destroyer, and that's all they've given to
00:39:47.900 the effort. They, you know, really depended on the U.S. Now, we should be very proud of being
00:39:54.020 Americans, and everybody listening, I hope, will be proud of that because the U.S. has a strong
00:40:00.800 economy, a strong military, and can do the job for itself. We can protect ourselves. But what we have
00:40:08.320 to do is get changes in Europe, obviously. They're really flabby, and so that's got to be – got to be
00:40:15.340 turned around. On defense, though, we're in Kansas City right now. I've met a lot of current military
00:40:22.860 and ex-military people, and they are so proud of America, but no one voices support for a trillion
00:40:30.120 dollar defense budget. I'm a veteran to nobody. Nobody. Because we realize it's out of control.
00:40:34.600 Yeah, we're out of control. So then that gets to the choices. Somebody – And these are patrons.
00:40:38.980 These are people that are the hardest core patrons. They want the Defense Department to make choices of,
00:40:44.560 do we need every kind of ship, and do we have to make them? Can't we use shipbuilding industry
00:40:51.020 outside because we need them fast? We need cheaper. We don't need all these fanciest missiles. We need
00:40:57.520 to have electronics that talk to people and all of that. But the basic – look, you were the – in
00:41:02.880 Treasury International Finance, so this would come under your at least strategic overview.
00:41:08.280 Essentially what President Trump is saying in this hemispheric defense, and one of the reasons
00:41:12.680 you've got James Polk, as the Italian magazine tells us, up on one of the portraits on the wall,
00:41:17.280 is that from Greenland to the Panama Canal – and obviously Brazil's got to be taken care of in
00:41:21.480 Argentina, in Latin America, in South America – but from Panama Canal to Greenland, it's a naval strategy.
00:41:27.980 You take the vast central Pacific, you do the three island chains of which Pete went to Hawaii,
00:41:34.140 Guam, the Philippines in order. That's the – you go from the Arctic, you're going to have to get
00:41:40.160 involved in the Arctic, right, because it's a great power struggle. But I think it's one of the
00:41:43.120 reasons Canada could end up being like Ukraine, with China taking a bite out of their territorial
00:41:48.320 integrity up there. You do that, you totally reset the military. All of a sudden, you're not worried
00:41:54.200 that much about the Eurasian landmass, and you have an expeditionary force of Marines and Army
00:42:00.200 and Navy that can go anywhere if you have a hotspot. Isn't that the way you have to – you have to
00:42:06.480 realign – the NDAA has got to be realigned with the basic new strategy, doesn't it?
00:42:11.060 That's right. That's right geopolitically, and that's maybe a brilliant strategy,
00:42:15.120 and we can think Trump is thinking about it that way. But here's the problem. The Defense Department
00:42:20.960 right now is, I think, still Trump-proofing itself. So they figure out which contracts would be
00:42:28.020 non-cancellable. Hey, we're going to keep you around. David Malpass dropping truth bombs here
00:42:34.000 on Trump-proofing. I love that thing about moving the money around, right? Moving the money around
00:42:39.020 is very, very, very important. I'm going to ask you about the BRICS movement. One of the things
00:42:43.840 they're saying is we've used the dollar too much as a weapon, and that's why the Chinese are getting
00:42:47.660 a hearing by the BRICS on – besides the drop in purchasing power of the dollar, also it's been
00:42:52.720 used as a weapon. Short commercial break. Birch Gold, go to the – so for four years we've been
00:42:58.120 doing the series, The End of the Dollar Empire. Go to birchgold.com slash Bannon, the sixth free
00:43:02.900 installment, Modern Monetary Theory, the idea that broke the world. You've got to get up to speed on
00:43:08.380 this. Remember, if you understand how money works, if you understand how capital markets work, you will
00:43:13.280 therefore start to have a whole new view of politics because it's all about money and power.
00:43:17.940 Short commercial break. David Malpass, one more episode, one more slot for him. Be back in a moment.
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00:44:44.480 Here's your host, Stephen K. Bannon.
00:44:52.340 So let's talk. Let's have your other thoughts. I want to get it on the table of, you know,
00:44:57.340 the Trump-proofing, what the Pentagon's doing to Trump-proof, because we're very upset about the
00:45:03.680 trillion dollars, and you're saying they're already thinking ahead of how they are resistant
00:45:07.760 to the bacillus of the Trump movement, or MAGA?
00:45:12.780 You know, it's hard to get inside each of these agencies, but around the government,
00:45:17.180 what they know and they're skilled at is the contracts. So if you can lock in the contract
00:45:22.120 in a way that it can't be undone, then your money good. And so in the Defense Department,
00:45:27.540 one of the problems is the primary contractors are so dominant.
00:45:31.780 So they-
00:45:32.060 Five families.
00:45:33.600 Only five? So you got an oligopoly.
00:45:35.700 It's like the five families of the mafia, right? They run the deal.
00:45:38.660 You said last night, oligarchs. And so in that way, they can really crowd out anybody else. And
00:45:45.240 if they can get the contracts to them, then they can protect them. So it just makes it hard for the
00:45:51.660 changes to be made. And the amounts of money that we're talking about are huge. You know,
00:45:55.680 they're doing $10 billion, $20 billion on individual contracts. And so that, you know,
00:46:04.400 they're moving as fast as they can. It's, you know, in the Senate, think what's going on. The resist
00:46:09.100 movement is super strong, which means the time on the floor in the Senate to get the appointees in
00:46:16.360 just takes-
00:46:17.360 His Senate confirmation, guys, right?
00:46:19.800 Yeah, the Senate confirmation, the decision makers-
00:46:22.140 Yes, they always slow walk.
00:46:22.900 Have to come in at the top and make decisions. And they slow walk them. And Chuck Schumer is,
00:46:29.240 you know, a master at how do you use up as much time as possible? This is going to be an issue,
00:46:34.800 coming back to the government spending, of how do you get enough resizing of the government?
00:46:41.160 You need rescissions, but those are hard to do because they take floor time. You need executive
00:46:46.920 branch authority, which Trump is asserting. And I think that's going to be-
00:46:50.660 You're saying impoundments?
00:46:52.420 Impoundment has to be looked at. You know, if you look at- I was on the staff at the Senate Budget
00:46:57.020 Committee, so I know a lot about this. In 1974, Nixon was at his weak spot. And the Democrats put
00:47:05.620 through the Budget Impoundment Act of 74, which took away the president's power over
00:47:11.140 spending because they wanted themselves to be able to spend and get the campaign contributions.
00:47:16.300 How is it that members come to Washington with no money and then they go out rich? Well,
00:47:21.000 it's because they're controlling and generously providing full funding for everybody. And so
00:47:29.100 breaking through that, it really takes executive branch authority. Can I say on that, I think we
00:47:34.280 need more than that. The checks and balances are not strong enough in the Constitution against the size
00:47:40.180 of government. In their wisdom, in the founding fathers, they protected free speech. They protected
00:47:46.440 religion. They protected against illegal search and seizure of citizens. And these were really
00:47:52.800 powerful, but they didn't realize they needed to protect and have a real check and balance against
00:47:58.900 government getting too big. So we're now in a spot where Trump will really have to show new procedures
00:48:07.560 workers because he'll be gone someday. And the Democrats will come back someday. And their whole
00:48:15.560 idea is to have everybody work for the government. That would be an ideal. They would say, well, that would
00:48:20.680 give us a lot of GDP growth because it would be very stable. And you say, yeah, where's it going to come
00:48:25.080 from? Debt, right? So we've got to get back to a small business system. We can turn to Brooks if you want.
00:48:32.640 I've said my piece on that. Oh, and we want to do the Fed. But hang on. Let's do a couple of minutes
00:48:39.080 on Brooks and then we'll do it. Let's do the Fed first. We are big believers in ending the Fed.
00:48:46.140 What are your thoughts? We have a broken system like trade. And how many mistakes can the Fed make
00:48:52.440 on inflation, deflation? And, you know, I've written over and over in the Wall Street Journal that they
00:48:56.580 never look back and introspect. Why did we make such a big mistake? Well, it's because they have stupid
00:49:01.400 models. The models are what's called neo-Keynesian. That means they have a concept of how people work
00:49:10.140 and grow that's plain wrong. That's the core Phillips curve model. But it's the fascination
00:49:15.540 with CPI, which we can't even count. You know, I really don't think you get right numbers out of
00:49:21.500 CPI. And yet they're using it to set interest rates. They have this immense power to buy bonds,
00:49:26.960 any kind of bonds. Even in 2023, people don't know. In the heat of the campaign,
00:49:32.540 as they were trying to Trump-proof Washington against Trump, they set up 13 – the Fed used
00:49:40.280 this 13-3 authority in March of 2023 to allow the Fed to lend to banks as if the collateral – as if
00:49:51.340 bonds were at 100 cents on the dollar when they were only worth 90. Well, because they were blowing
00:49:56.740 holes in these – their own bonds were blowing holes in the balance sheets, as were the Silicon
00:50:00.920 Valley Bank and other things, the bailouts. And don't forget, the Fed was the biggest – it's
00:50:05.160 the world's biggest hedge fund with the world's biggest loss unrealized on its books. So every
00:50:10.260 year now, we are stuck, American taxpayers, with realizing $250 billion of losses from the Fed.
00:50:17.200 But that understates because underwater is all their entire – they have $7 trillion of a bond
00:50:24.520 portfolio that's lost money. And what's worse, as I say, in 2023, they allowed this freebie lending to
00:50:34.700 banks that they were trying to protect. So now, I do want to say the importance of a central bank
00:50:43.440 anywhere in the world is to protect the currency of the people, because otherwise, devaluations kill
00:50:51.000 people on the – you know, really cause – in the developing world, it actually causes starvation,
00:50:57.640 poverty. One of the things I fought at the World Bank was the IMF's tendency to have everybody
00:51:02.460 devalue, because it protects them and the elites in the country. We've got to stop that.
00:51:08.220 We're going to get you back on later in another time to do bricks and other things. It's been
00:51:12.700 fascinating. How do people get to your writings? Do you have social media, all that? Where do
00:51:16.240 people go?
00:51:18.940 Understated on that, david.malpass at gmail.com.
00:51:22.860 So hold it. You have no website to put your writings up and no social media?
00:51:27.740 You know, I've tried and tried and tried. The incompetence.
00:51:30.700 You're so old school. David Malpass. So one more time, where do people go?
00:51:34.500 Just Google me. That'll work.
00:51:37.980 Just Google. Okay, fine.
00:51:38.820 Wikipedia.
00:51:39.400 And get all your writings. David Malpass, former undersecretary of treasury for international
00:51:44.280 finance for President Trump and then head of the World Bank. Fascinating discussion. We'll get
00:51:48.920 you back here for a lot more. We're going to take you out with The Right Stuff, book by Tom
00:51:54.020 Wolf, a classic, an amazing film, a really amazing film by Phil Kaufman, underappreciated at the time.
00:52:01.140 Of course, we love it. And Academy Award winning music by Bill Conti. The Right Stuff will take
00:52:06.220 you out. We're going to be back in two minutes with the second hour of the morning edition of
00:52:10.800 The War Room. See you in a moment.
00:52:11.860 The Right Stuff will take you out.
00:52:21.580 The Right Stuff will take you out.
00:52:24.520 The Right Stuff will take you out.
00:52:26.680 What if he had the brightest mind in the War Room
00:52:45.680 delivering critical financial research every month?
00:52:49.480 Steve Bannon here.
00:52:50.620 War Room listeners know Jim Rickards.
00:52:52.300 I love this guy.
00:52:53.700 He's our wise man,
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00:52:57.280 with an unmatched grasp of geopolitics and capital markets.
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00:53:30.000 Right now, War Room members get a free copy
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00:53:36.600 This is Jim's flagship financial newsletter,
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00:53:41.400 I read it.
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00:53:43.580 Time is running out.
00:53:44.420 Go to RickardsWarRoom.com.
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00:53:54.640 Do it today.
00:53:56.940 Hey, War Room.
00:53:57.920 Hope you're all doing well.
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