Episode 4459： The Age Of Trump
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Summary
In the first episode of 2020, John Avlon, Alicia Keys, John Rocha, and Angela Rye discuss the White House's proposed budget for the FY 2020 budget, which includes deep cuts to the Environmental Protection Agency, the National Park Service, the Department of the Interior, the Smithsonian, the Justice Department, and other agencies across the federal government.
Transcript
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of priorities. This here is a skinny budget. It will be fleshed out in full. But when you're
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talking about cuts to the National Park Service, cuts to climate science research,
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cuts to UN peacekeepers, to the NIH, rental assistance at a time when the rent is too
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damn high, what does it tell you about the priorities, John, of this administration?
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And we're not just talking, Alicia, it should be clear here, we're not just talking about cuts.
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We're not talking about what you usually hear in Washington about, which is a reduction in
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the expected increase or even a one or two point haircut on these programs. We're talking about
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tens of billions of dollars from the National Institutes of Health and the Housing and Urban
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Development Agency. So you've had a big list there. I think we're talking about basically a 20%
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cut, maybe a little bit more than that in discretionary spending. This is unheard of.
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No one's ever seen anything like this. It is responsive to Donald Trump's base. It is responsive
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to Russ Vogt, the director of the Office of Management and Budget, basically the kinds of
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budgets that he used to write when he was the budget guy for the Republican Study Committee,
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which at the time was the extreme right wing group in the House, and its budgets never got
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more than a handful of votes. So we're seeing the dream of Donald Trump to slash the federal
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government, to cut taxes for the wealthy. And, you know, we will see what Congress says about it.
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But for the time being, I think there is a clear direction of President Donald Trump to destroy
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as much as he can of the federal government as fast as he can.
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Well, right. Of course, right. I mean, at this point, they keep taking these actions that are
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blatant, in this case, explicitly illegal. And that's, you know, that's sort of a throwaway at
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this point, because it becomes so much of a reflex of this administration. And what they're out of is
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part of this larger plan, right, which is to target anything that they feel is oppositional. And
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that's where we, you know, as we get closer to the midterms, there's an irresistible temptation,
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which I know is true to think about this in the standard political terms. But I just want to
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caution everyone that this is different. This is not just another election. They are on an
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authoritarian run here. They are trying to reshape our country using government in a way that reshapes
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our culture and what our government represents. They're not they're trying to take away so much of
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the basic protections and freedoms that we took. So what's an issue with CBS and NPR?
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One, revenge. They've always hated them. The right wing media has always targeted them as one of the
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villains because they're a truth teller. And another part of that is, remember, most of the
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stations that will be affected are in are not the big cities, but actually in the in the in the
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smaller communities, the smaller stations, the rural areas are the ones that are going to get hit the
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hardest on that. Taking away an alternative voice just gives Trump and the rest of the right
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wing media more power, enhancing their narrative dominance. And that, to me, is a big part of it.
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They're getting rid of the checks, not just legally, but also in the court of public opinion.
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Well, Angela, you have political calling these cuts unprecedented. But I mean, all four of us know
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these are not surprising. A lot of this is straight out of Project 2025. Russell Vogt had been
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telegraphing that this is what they wanted to do if they came back into power. There was a playbook
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and now they are running the playbook, Angelo. Yeah. I mean, they listed all the things they're
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going to do. Nothing in here is even remotely, you know, sort of out of left field. I mean,
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they are getting basically everything they wanted in terms of their first wave of cuts and reductions
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and gutting. And that is an intentional part of the plan. The other thing, too, is that they're
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buoyed not just by the sort of whatever sort of confidence they have now in this and whatever
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authoritarian bet. They're also buoyed by history and a track record. This is not the first
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time. In 2017, a similar thing happened with his first term. The budget had all these tax
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cuts in there. It was a deeply unpopular budget. Everyone was going to be mad at Trump over
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this because they promised that the tax cuts were going to pay for themselves. None of that
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came true. The only thing that came true was that rich people got a massive tax cut out
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of Trump's bill that wasn't funded. And yet people still walked away with the broader
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feeling and impression that somehow Trump is better on the economy than an alternative Democrat would
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be. And that that to me is the scary part about this, is that they not only think that they can
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jam this through. History says that they probably have a pretty good track record, not just jamming
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it through, but getting away with it. Trump won and Trump, too. There's really an attempt to sideline
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the courts. And there's always been this attempt to sideline Congress, but now to sideline the courts
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as well. I mean, they're doing a few things. One is they're moving people around all the time to
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try to keep us from getting into the right court. So we go to one court and get an injunction, then
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they move people to another. I mean, even with this Alien Enemies Act, that piece you just you just
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played, he signs it on March 14th, doesn't tell anybody, but we find out they're starting to get
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people ready. Then they finally publish it on the 15th. But the statute says very clearly you're
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supposed to publish the Alien Enemies Act proclamation. If you want to use it, make it
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public. But they're already trying to move it before it becomes public. We go, we find out that
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people are being moved. We go into court and then they say, well, you're too early. Well, you don't
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wait. It hasn't been published it, but the people would have been gone. And as you said, they were
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already some people gone. The DOJ no longer enforcing justice. The whole dismantling of
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DEI, everything the DOJ has done thus far has been in support of this administration. They've
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attacked the courts to undermine the court's trust with the public for when the courts actually do
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speak. They are attacking the whole prospect of the nationwide injunction. So it's going to make it
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harder for people to challenge the administration's actions. They'll have to do it in every different
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jurisdiction. That'll be entirely unwieldy. They are subjugating law firms and they are trying to
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attack public interest firms, too. All of that is about reducing the amount of legal resources
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available for this fight. It is not a coincidence. This is a strategy to make the law no longer work
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for the people. We haven't really faced, I think, what will be the defining crisis, which will be
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the president either accepting a contrary decision likely from the Supreme Court on an issue of great
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significance or trying to reject it and trying to defy it. And that moment is coming. You know,
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the word crisis comes from the Greek vernacular about health care. Crisis is the moment in a disease
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where a patient lives or dies. And don't want to be overly hyperbolic on a Friday evening, but
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we will have a crisis for the rule of law, I think, before this year is out. And here's hoping that
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the institutions, the judges, the lawmakers, and the citizens hold on to that rule of law,
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no matter what their impulses at the moment might be.
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This is the primal scream of a dying regime. Pray for our enemies, because we're going medieval on these
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people. You're just not going to get a free shot at all these networks lying about the people. The
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people have had a belly full of it. I know you don't like hearing that. I know you've tried to do
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everything in the world to stop that, but you're not going to stop it. It's going to happen.
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And where do people like that go to share the big lie? Mega media. I wish in my soul, I wish that any of
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these people had a conscience. Ask yourself, what is my task and what is my purpose? If that answer
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is to save my country, this country will be saved.
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It's Saturday, 3 May in the year of our Lord, 2025. We're here. We're going to get into all this
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Caniac. Citizen Kane's going to join us here shortly to go through this firestorm that's come up about
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the budget that the Russ Vogt and the team put out yesterday from the White House. We'll get into all
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that. I actually had a great honor to speak this morning already as a keynote speaker to the last day
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of the Center for Renewing America conference where Russ Vogt, Mark Paoletta, that entire team,
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Jeff Clark, all the great heroes of the interregnum in President Trump's four years that did all this
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and made sure the days of thunder and flood the zone were, you could actually effectuate. They're
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now in for the second hundred days. Really one of the most dangerous and controversial part times of
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the American Republic's history, which we're now rolling out in the first couple of days. And
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MSNBC is actually right. There are conversions of crises here and whoever kind of wins the next
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hundred days is going to be really driving the agenda. And so it's quite important. I want to go
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to Rome. Ben Harnwell. Yesterday I did this interview or republished interview I did with Archbishop
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Vigan. I want to get to that in a moment. Ben, where are you? The reporting out of Europe
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is so important about what you've accomplished and what we've put together at our monastery is
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kind of the counter to the radicalness of Bergoglio in trying to keep the, hopefully keep the church on
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track by being a rally point for conservatives and more importantly for traditionalists. Where are you
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today? And where do we stand with this upcoming conclave, sir? Steve, good morning. Well, I'm here
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live from St. Peter's Piazza. You can get a sense of the fact that the Piazza is already now starting
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to fill up with pilgrims in expectation of the conclave by the fact that this mobile signal is
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slower than usual. That's because there are a couple of thousand people behind me. This always happens in
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Rome when lots of people gather together. There is a diminution of the of mobile signals. So that's
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an indication. There's an excitement in the air, a buzz in the air. People are starting to discuss
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now in real terms who the potential names might be. I mentioned one name because I know this is
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something that you've been hammering on on the war and this is the danger to do with American-born
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Cardinal Prevost. Already the world's mainstream media seems to have picked him as their flag bearer.
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You have articles by the New York Times, by Crooks, which is basically the Catholic version of the New
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York Times. And they're pushing articles against him in his favor, one after another. If I might just
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quickly highlight this, this is the guy to avoid, Steve. This is one of the principal people we do not
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want to see come out onto that loger behind me with a new papal regnal name. But already to give an
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example of the things that people are saying, the National Catholic Reporter, known as the National
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Catholic Distorter for its accuracy, has highlighted Cardinal Prevost and his interest in dialogue.
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Crooks argues that Prevost would maintain Pope Francis's substance, but with
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more pragmatic, cautious and discreet leadership. Steve, God save us from that.
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No, this is, we got this, we obviously were fairly dialed in there. And from the very early,
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really, even before the funeral, but from the early days, there was this push behind the scenes
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to say, hey, let's keep the Americans on board because they're 80% of the cash flow.
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But we actually have somebody here that's more, that's more organized, but even more progressive
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than Bergoglio. And so they feel that they got a, they got every win in the world. They get,
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they basically have the, you know, this, this myth of no American Pope. They go through that.
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They lock in the American church, particularly the donors are now feel obligated to back an American
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Pope. So they'll lock in the cash they so desperately need from the American church. And they'll have somebody
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they think is even more organized than Bergoglio. And they will have somebody that's actually farther
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to the left than he is. Your thoughts, is that basically what the, the people driving this agenda
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Yeah, but I have to say, I think they're slightly on the wrong foot this time around.
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But the difference from, from being, uh, when in verticals, Pope Francis was elected in 2013.
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And the difference is, is that they no longer have a friendly force guiding the international
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pressure. Like for example, Macron is doing in France, uh, on, on his cardinals, because in the
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sense that they no longer that this, the, the, the deep state, the global deep state, what, uh,
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what Archbishop Vigano calls the deep church, it no longer has control of the white house.
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And this is crucially important because it's a, it's a missing element now. And this is the power
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of the war audience. Obviously this is the power of MAGA. What it does mean in this, in this time
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round is that you cannot be the, the, the, the, the, the Klaus Schwab, uh, the, the, the, the von
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the lion, the, the, the, the people who set the agenda behind the scenes, and then have it repeated
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via the Catholic church. They can no longer use the white house to push their guy in, um, this time
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around. So they are doing exactly what you said. Uh, but we have a far stronger hand this time around.
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Uh, hang on for a second, Ben, uh, we're going to take a short commercial break.
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We're going to come back. There's a lot to go through, including that interview for Archbishop
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Vigano. I mean, he throws down hard and says there was actually a, a plot that was executed
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to make sure Bergoglio became Pope. And he's very specific about it, about the deep state,
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the world economic forum, and what he calls the deep church. We'll break it all down for you. Ben
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Harnwell's live in Rome at the Vatican today. Uh, Caniac, uh, Citizen Kane is going to join us also,
00:13:54.020
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Okay, let's go back to the Vatican in St. Peter's Square. Our own Ben Harnwell, tell us about
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Vigano really connected the dots of the Obama administration, the deep state,
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in the United States, the world economic forum, the deep state internationally, these intelligence
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services, these political operatives, these the money, and also talk about how it manifests itself
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in the deep church. Walk us through the highlights of the interview, sir.
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Well, I tell you this, the quote that caught... Yeah, I can hear you. Have you lost me?
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Yeah, we're good. Go ahead. No, no, we got you. Go ahead.
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The quote that really caught my attention here is when Archbishop Vigano says,
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hatred for the traditional mass is one of the hallmarks of the enemies of Christ. And this being
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Archbishop Vigano, he's also clearly talking about Satan, because his whole ecclesiology of the
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present moment is definitely the reign of Satan over the world and over Christ's church as well.
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I flag up for our Protestant brethren this fact. Whether you buy into a lot of what the Catholic
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church teaches in terms of its piety and its traditions or not, even Protestants will recognize
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that Satan in demonic possession has an absolute supernatural or preternatural hatred of the
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crucifix of the cross, of Christ crucified. So all I would mention to our Protestant friends is to
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carry that thought process along because it is exactly the same and arguably even more demonstrable,
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Satan's hatred of the traditional Latin mass. I'll mention that and then pass on it.
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We'll come to develop that point a little further, Steve. The point is, and this is why Archbishop
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Vigano is absolutely heroic. It's because he is speaking up for the ordinary pilgrims and Catholics
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who go to mass every Sunday, because all of the rest of the bishops, all the rest of the cardinals are
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not doing. They are hiring shepherds at great personal cost. Archbishop Vigano has been a tireless
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voice. And I think, you know, I strongly recommend that Liz has pushed this out. It's on the Warren website.
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I'm going to push out this interview as well. Everybody must read it because of what Archbishop
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Vigano is saying. And I'll say this, that guy has been in hiding, I think, for the last seven or eight
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years since he produced his exposé, his dossier on the child sex abuse scandal in the church and
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Pope Francis' lack of action. The fact that he was promoting cardinals constantly, like McCarrick.
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Only Vigano spoke up. And there is now, within the war room ambit, within the wider, if we ever
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take Trisulti, within the wider MAGA family here, there is now a direct line. This is the point I want
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to say. This is the direct line between Archbishop Vigano's solitary witness in defense of ordinary
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Catholics and this radio show, this television show, this transmission. There is that line.
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Again, this is the show that speaks out and says the message that all the Catholic media
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are too afraid to touch. This is where people need to come to find out what is the horrific
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stories that are taking place over my shoulder in the Vatican, Steve.
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How is this going to play out now? How is this going to play out in this conclave? Because we saw
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what Vigano said before, hey, you had the political muscle of the progressive left globalist back in
00:20:14.860
2012 and 2013 that manifested itself by getting Bergoglio in. Now their alternative is to come with an
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American to try to get the Americans to buy off, to keep the cash flow from the American church,
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which the Vatican desperately needs because they have an insolvency crisis. They have plenty of
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assets, assets all over the world in real assets, real estate, but they have limited cash flow because
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so many of the church, so many of the folks in the old regular church don't go anymore because it's
00:20:46.140
gotten too radical. And the traditional church, as you know, we've tried to cut these guys off from
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getting access to the money. But in Prevost, they've got somebody who's actually more lethal than
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Bergoglio because he's more organized, he's more radically left, sir.
00:21:03.020
Steve, look, that's exactly the point here. You've got two questions here, two issues. You've got the
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role of the laity in the ability, the talent, the resources that the laity have, which is not being
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used. And I'd like to close with that point when I come back to the laity. And I think that the laity
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should have a role in what's taking place over my shoulder in just a few days' time in the choosing
00:21:26.540
of the Pope. But you also have the Vigano point as well. So these two things, to do with the fact
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that the church is bankrupt, one of the reasons that the church, the Vatican, has no money is because
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you had a lot of serious, pious, sincere American businessmen giving money every year to the Pope
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and his initiatives via the Papal Foundation and what have you. And they had a difficulty in getting
00:22:03.980
the money coming in. Why? Because Pope Francis was constantly doing two things. He was criticizing
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capitalism and he was playing up his hatred of America. But how are you going to get American
00:22:15.900
capitalists to give money if all you're doing is showing that contempt and hatred for them? And in fact,
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indicating that American capitalists are the very antithesis of Christ's gospel. So that is one of the
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reasons that the Vatican is heading towards bankruptcy. And I can only regret the fact that
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not my Pope died before the incoming hit the fan on that one, because he should have been around to see
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this particular disaster that he had created for the church and for the faithful. Staying on the
00:22:48.780
point of the faithful, this church has a medieval organization, right? It's structure. The faith goes
00:22:57.020
back 2,000 years, but it's essential governing system goes back 1,000 years, a bit over 13 years,
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and it hasn't really changed. One of the things, and I close with this point, Steve, one of the things
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as a practicing classic that really offends me is that I have no real say in the running of the church.
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And that wouldn't be a bad thing if the bishops and the cardinals who are charged with running the
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church were doing a good job, but they're doing an appalling job. They're doing an appalling job on what
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it really belongs to their office, like Christ has entrusted to them, which is feeding the sheep,
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preserving the faith. Well, if we judge them on the metric of preserving the faith, we can see how
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badly they failed. But even on the worldly things like the governance of the church,
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the discipline of priests and bishops, it's doing an even worse job. And those guys over my shoulder,
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their approach to us has never changed since the dark ages. The laity's job is to pay, to pray, and obey.
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They came up with happy talk about involving the laity, but fundamentally, we're closed out of that room
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in four days' time when they start choosing a paper. We're locked up, and we're supposed to applaud
00:24:08.700
whoever they pull out there on their balcony. And that's really, I think that's disgraceful and
00:24:14.060
offensive, because they're failing, and because it's patronizing. And it wasn't always that way
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1,600 years ago, the laity of the Rome picked the Pope.
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Well, let's go to that, because one of the criticisms they throw at us is that, oh,
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you guys are just nothing more than your traditional Latin mass, but the structure,
00:24:38.780
the power structure you want is close to Protestantism. That's one of the big things
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that Luther and the Reformation are about, that we're trying to impose a more Protestant hierarchy
00:24:49.740
or a more Protestant organization on the church. Your response?
00:24:54.540
Well, firstly, from the official Catholic position, what is the problem with that? They love the
00:24:59.500
Protestants. They have breakfast meetings with them. They have prayer gatherings with them.
00:25:03.980
The people that they don't like are us, the traditionalist Catholics, the people that don't
00:25:08.780
think the faith should change as it moves down the generations. But if that is their criticism of us,
00:25:15.100
oh, that's Protestant, well, isn't there a certain dissonance here? Because all they do is praise
00:25:20.140
Protestantism, right? From the fact when Not My Pope pulled up in the St. Paul VI, excuse me,
00:25:26.620
the Pope Paul VI audience hall, the bust of Luther. They love Protestantism. What's the problem?
00:25:33.660
Second point, Steve, and I close with this, which is more fundamental. CCP generals have the ability
00:25:41.180
to pick Catholic bishops under this secret toxic Vatican-China agreement. That agreement is so toxic,
00:25:49.020
we're not even allowed to see it. Don't tell me, Vatican, that the CCP generals, when they're
00:25:54.620
persecuting the faith in China, can pick bishops, but we can't. That's just disgusting.
00:26:04.060
Ben, where do people go to keep up with this? By the way, I also want to announce that Jack
00:26:08.460
Posopic is going to go over to work with Ben for the coverage. We're going to have a wall-to-wall
00:26:15.100
or the Conclave, and I think we're going to try to get Jack over there as soon as possible. He'll go
00:26:18.700
with a special correspondent for the War Room, because we're going to take a ton of his time.
00:26:23.900
He'll also be doing a show from over there. We'll take a ton of his time.
00:26:27.500
And we'll make a formal announcement of that, I think, tomorrow or Monday.
00:26:31.580
Where do people go to get all your content, sir, particularly over the weekend? Because
00:26:39.020
Well, Steve, I can't wait for Posse to come out here. We'll finally see who's
00:26:42.140
able to drink more, the Poles or the Brits. I'm on getter, Steve, at Harnwell. My profile is at
00:26:48.220
Harnwell. It's the Brits. We know the answer before we even ask the question. I'll drink that
00:26:52.380
guy under the table. Naval career unknown. On getter at Harnwell. Thanks, Steve. God bless.
00:26:58.940
He doesn't want to hear about the intelligence officer. People should understand Ben Harnwell is
00:27:03.580
one of the most competitive people I've ever met in my life. That's one of the reasons I love him.
00:27:07.500
Ben Harnwell, thank you so much, brother. Look forward to getting you back here on Monday and
00:27:11.100
reading all your content over the weekend. Thank you, sir.
00:27:15.260
Grace and Mo have pushed out. Up on our site is the interview. I think Complicit Clergy,
00:27:22.620
one of the great groups of young priests in the country, have pushed it out. We're going to try
00:27:26.540
to get it up everywhere. Extremely controversial. We ask very tough and pointed questions. And guess
00:27:31.740
what? Archbishop Vigano gave amazing answers, stunning answers. You want to understand the deep
00:27:37.580
state in the deep church? He's the guy. And he got excommunicated for it. He's been excommunicated by
00:27:43.660
Bergoglio for his efforts to try to free the traditional Catholics within the Catholic church.
00:27:50.540
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The party has replaced the power of the purse. Congress no longer defends its institutional
00:29:37.600
prerogatives or not very much. That said, I think you'll see some pushback in some areas.
00:29:43.280
For example, the low-income home energy assistance program, LIHEAP. This is a program where you've got
00:29:50.700
hundreds of thousands of people getting heating and cooling assistance in a variety of states,
00:29:56.980
among them the big swing states, Pennsylvania and Michigan, all throughout the South,
00:30:01.520
where you get air conditioning assistance from the LIHEAP program. That's one that's popular. I think
00:30:05.900
there'll be some pushback on. I think you'll see some pushback on the National Endowment for the
00:30:09.840
Arts, the National Endowment for the Humanities. But overall, I think Republicans are going to do
00:30:14.160
their darndest to support Trump. And I think what has changed since 2017 is that you've got a
00:30:20.640
Republican Party in Congress that is not only much more aligned with Trump, but very, very afraid of
00:30:25.640
his base in primaries, which is the most likely way that any of them will lose. And so I think
00:30:30.700
they're going to do what they can to pass what he wants and maybe make a few adjustments here and
00:30:34.660
they were so very clear what the trade-off actually was. Usually they leave that part
00:30:38.500
out of the budget. They don't make it clear what they're going to take away from you. In this case,
00:30:41.960
they were very clear. I think the first question I asked that was really important in response to
00:30:47.700
the current landscape, because that strange confusion and tension about the defense spending
00:30:52.220
is critical. Because Trump, one of the things within the larger sort of right-wing ecosystem
00:30:57.500
that obviously helps sort of have that swirling cauldron of support for Trump's narratives and false
00:31:02.280
narrative and support for him, is this weird, there are obviously contradictions and tensions
00:31:07.600
everywhere, but one of the tensions is in defense spending. There's a traditional sort of hawkish,
00:31:13.160
you know, they want as much defense spending as you can possibly get. And then there's another part of
00:31:18.460
their coalition that is much more nationalistic, wants to look inward, much more populist, wants to
00:31:23.160
butt and cut defense spending first and really take it away. And so in a strange way, this confusion
00:31:28.840
actually helps them. Because if you're sitting in the right-wing media right now, depending on where
00:31:33.140
you tune in, that's the one place where they're saying different things. Some say, yeah, you know,
00:31:38.040
this is really bad for defense spending because they're spending too much, right? Some are saying
00:31:42.060
the opposite. When it comes to the other thing, they're all saying that there's not going to be
00:31:45.340
any cuts or sacrifice. It's only waste, fraud, and abuse that they're getting rid of in Medicare and
00:31:49.180
Medicaid to the extent they ever acknowledge that. But that's the part where I think it's an advantage.
00:31:53.100
That's something to really hammer home. So that fracture becomes a full-blown crack.
00:31:56.680
The salvation here has to be the populace. And the salvation is clearly not Congress,
00:32:02.720
which has not been doing anything. The courts can only do so much. Remember, a lot of what we're
00:32:09.440
talking about is something that may be illegal, but there's a whole lot that's going on that is
00:32:15.480
legal and just improvident. And so that's where you really need those pulse. I mean, that is why that
00:32:23.520
is ultimately the key issue. But what we're seeing in terms of the attack on the judiciary,
00:32:28.060
I mean, nobody should be surprised. This is a man who is a convicted felon sitting now in the Oval
00:32:37.760
Office. We saw him attack prosecutors and the courts for the entire time that he was under indictment.
00:32:45.480
So now you will start seeing the exact same thing. It's the reason he has attacked the media,
00:32:51.520
anybody who stands up. And part of it, even when he loses, is fear. So the idea of attacking
00:32:59.960
the law firms is that they have the fear they will obey in advance. The attacking of universities is,
00:33:06.820
so you have fear in obeying in advance, even if he loses. The international students,
00:33:12.420
international scholars, thinking twice about coming here, scientists thinking, you know what,
00:33:20.180
better to be doing this in Canada, in England, in France. I mean, the repercussions because of the
00:33:27.560
nature of what he is doing, even if the courts ultimately say you can't do this, are enormous.
00:33:34.340
Well, he sees his next hundred days the way he's seen his last X number of days in life,
00:33:40.740
which is that it is about him. It's not about us. It's not about we, the people. It's not about
00:33:48.220
a world in which we try to fulfill the implications of the Declaration of Independence. And this is not
00:33:56.740
some reflexively partisan anti-Trump point. It's simply the case. And we're not, we don't do ourselves
00:34:04.420
any favors. We aren't, I think, doing our jobs as citizens if we don't call them as we see them.
00:34:12.120
And what we've seen for the last decade, and it's now been a decade, is that we are living in an age
00:34:19.380
of Trump. There's no question about that. He has set the terms of the debate, and many people are
00:34:27.640
defined now by their reaction to the terms he has set. And I think what, without any fear really of
00:34:37.600
serious contradiction, I think we can say that he is taking a cult of personality. He has used that
00:34:46.260
to take over a major political party. And he is now in his second term of trying to make the world
00:34:55.380
in his image, as opposed to an image where we can all figure out a way to live lives of
00:35:03.420
prosperity and purpose. And it's a remarkable thing. No American president has ever held this
00:35:09.960
kind of grip, has ever had this kind of grip on the American imagination. And I don't like saying
00:35:17.100
things are unprecedented. It's against my business model. But in this case, in this case, it is unprecedented.
00:35:25.380
Oh, my God. What a Saturday morning. The John Meacham, one of the great haters, actually said,
00:35:36.280
I'm going to replay that one in the second hour, that this is the age of Trump. What we've said on
00:35:41.880
the show for years and years and years, John Meacham says, you can't dispute it. It's the age of
00:35:46.420
Trump. And no American president. Meacham's the historian of the presidents. One of them. But the
00:35:54.980
Morning Joe crowd, the Washington consensus, just said no American president has ever had a grip on
00:36:03.860
power like President Trump. Wow. From Meacham, not from War Room, not from Bannon, from John Meacham.
00:36:10.380
Stunning. Stunning. I want to bring in Kane now. The president of Media Matters, who's a really smart
00:36:20.340
guy, hates MAGA, hates Trump, hates War Room, hates all of us, but a smart guy. I'll play that clip in
00:36:28.360
the middle of that again. By the way, the team did a magnificent job of bringing all the different
00:36:32.780
elements of these clips together for the last couple of days. He got it. So Kaneiak.
00:36:41.260
Kane. One of the things I love about Citizens Free Press, and I was at the Drudge of the right,
00:36:47.440
it's 10 times better than Drudge. You are at where Drudge was with peak Drudge back with
00:36:54.580
Andrew Breitbart was one of his, it was Andrew 12, it was 12 on, 12 off. Andrew do 12,
00:36:59.900
Drudge would do 12, back in the 2004, 5, 6, all the way up to 10, 11, until Andrew went separate
00:37:07.780
ways to do the Breitbart, refinance the Breitbart site, and then Drudge lost it after Trump won at
00:37:13.720
16. Whether he got bought off or invested, who knows, but it radically shifted, but also got lazy.
00:37:19.120
It's nowhere, it doesn't have the impact, it's also not brilliantly thought through as you and your
00:37:23.660
stack. Tell people why, because yesterday the budget came out, and you and I are in sync on this,
00:37:29.460
and this is, remember, Rush votes the architect here, this is Project 2025, this is CRA, I just
00:37:35.260
gave the keynote address over there this morning, the third one I've done for the three years they've
00:37:39.060
been kind of up and running, or since they've had these conferences. You know, it's 22% on
00:37:45.860
the discretionary side, the defense budget's a major increase, although the defense guys are
00:37:52.020
yelling at us. But you immediately, when this thing goes up, Cain has got the way to look at it,
00:37:57.860
I think, the sophisticated way, in the stack, red and green, he's letting you know this is important,
00:38:04.180
you need to pay attention here, and you're all over this, like, hey, this is not nearly enough,
00:38:09.320
this is a nice first cut, but we're not going to get there here. So walk me through, what is your
00:38:14.500
obsession with federal spending? What is your obsession? How has that driven you as a news
00:38:20.960
person? Because you weren't a news person for decades, you're a trader, you know, a Wall Street
00:38:25.560
guy in the, you know, you're trading securities daily and playing golf, working on that handicap,
00:38:32.660
and then all of a sudden you're one of the most significant people in the world on news. But it
00:38:36.880
was driven by your obsession with federal spending, sir.
00:38:40.000
Yeah, that's correct. First of all, I got to say, Meacham got it completely wrong. I just got
00:38:46.020
to put this in there. It is not a cult of personality. It's the will of the people. This
00:38:50.660
is what MSNBC doesn't understand. They don't understand the working class coalition, and that
00:38:56.140
Trump, we aren't driven by Trump. We're driven by the ideas behind America First. Now I'll get to
00:39:01.960
your question. You're exactly right, Bannon. You remember our conversation as well that we've
00:39:06.160
had in different text, in different text threads. I was interning for CNN in Washington, D.C. in the
00:39:12.680
summer of 1987. I was a young kid of 20 years old. I was doing my resume tape on the overnight shift
00:39:19.700
in the last two weeks of the internship. Now this is early CNN. This is Bernie Shaw, Bernard Shaw.
00:39:26.240
This is 87. I think it existed for just a couple of years. So it wasn't a left wing, you know,
00:39:31.840
sort of a hateful left wing rag. And so I'm over there in the overnight. One of the overnight
00:39:36.900
producers is like, the national debt just crossed $2 trillion. $2 trillion. I'd never really even
00:39:42.640
heard about the national debt. Didn't understand the difference between debt and deficits. And that
00:39:47.500
sort of struck my interest at that point. And you can go back and talk to my friends. Starting back in
00:39:52.920
87 is when I started to get extremely upset about this stuff, because I was looking at, you know,
00:39:59.160
future, you know, unfunded mandates, the future money that was going to have to be laid out.
00:40:04.140
So it's been a, you know, this has been a thing that's been going on now for, for 40 years for me. So
00:40:09.640
yeah, I, you talked about Drudge, you and I in our various discussions, and I know how tight you sort
00:40:15.280
of, obviously you were with Andrew, but as well with Drudge himself. And, and you talked about the
00:40:21.140
heyday, you know, 02 to sort of 2010, when, when Drudge was really pushing it out. And, and,
00:40:28.220
you know, and I was a reader of that site, and I just always thought that there needed to be an
00:40:31.900
alternative. Not that Drudge was doing it wrong, but just that he didn't do enough stories in a day.
00:40:37.480
You know, he would do 50, 60, maybe back then he was doing closer to 100. But you're correct in
00:40:42.540
pointing out that he's not really even trying anymore, if he's still running the site, because
00:40:46.940
they're really just doing 50, 55, 60 stories. So I always thought there should be an alternative.
00:40:53.040
I knew it would, it would change my life. I mean, look, this is 415 straight weekends that I'm
00:41:00.080
working. This, it's the, as you know, it was the eighth anniversary of Citizen Free Press's launch
00:41:06.140
just two days ago on May 1st. It was May 1st, 2017. So this is 3,000 straight days. So I knew that it,
00:41:13.240
once I started, that if the site became popular, that I would never be able to stop, right? So I
00:41:19.140
put it off, I put it off a long time. And I didn't actually, to wrap this up, I didn't actually wait
00:41:25.680
for Trump, excuse me, for Drudge to turn on Trump as he started to in that March, April, May period of
00:41:33.880
2017 when the Comey stuff was first breaking. That was just when I happened to launch. So I did not
00:41:40.760
launch because Drudge turned against Trump or turned against America first. I launched just
00:41:45.720
because I think there needed, I thought there needed to be another site up with more links
00:41:50.560
every day. So that was the, that is what led to May 1st. I've got a lot more, but I'll let you
00:41:57.640
interject. Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no. Hang on. We're gonna go to a commercial break. I'm gonna keep
00:42:01.820
you around for a while because I want to get to, for people to understand the site, the stack,
00:42:06.380
and particularly you do the best, you do the best pulling together of different, whether it's
00:42:12.240
Financial Times, Wall Street Journal, New York Times, all the great blogs out there to talk about
00:42:17.060
really the, the underlying economic and financial crisis we have. This summer, the second hundred
00:42:23.140
days, this is the speech I just gave at CRA, that we're going to have the convergence of multiple
00:42:28.860
crises, both the kinetic part of the Third World War, coupled with this, the issue about Trump being a
00:42:36.200
commander-in-chief, the constitutional crisis on the deportations, coupled with this financial and
00:42:42.020
economic crisis. Let's hang on for a second, Cain. We're going to take a short commercial break.
00:42:45.960
The situation down in Texas, we're going to start covering in detail, well, we're covering in detail,
00:42:50.800
but I mean, we're going to have the players on starting next week. There's something deeply wrong
00:42:55.300
in the state of Texas right now. It's a MAGA state. The House has been taken over, given by the
00:43:00.900
RINOs to the Democrats, and they're passing some incredibly just bizarro laws. Also, this question
00:43:06.900
of what's going on with these mosques and these Islamic centers, we're going to get to all of it.
00:43:12.220
Got to break it down. 972 Patriot. Patriot Mobile. Glenn Sturrie and the team out of Tarrant County
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economy. Because folks, I said this morning to breakfast, in 28, if the radical Democrats steal it,
00:45:01.540
we allow them to steal it and the deep state has not been shattered. And I'm not crazy about the
00:45:06.840
trajectory on that, where I love so much other stuff is going on. Let's be honest. MTG put that
00:45:12.340
tweet out and people should listen to MTG on this. I think she spoke from the heart and she spoke for
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a lot of people in the base about things. They're coming hard. They're coming hard. That's why 972
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Patriot. Do the switch today to Patriot Mobile. So I'm just doing some math here, Cain. 87 would make
00:45:34.440
this, it was 30 years then roughly from that day as an intern, when you found, you heard about this
00:45:40.620
thing called the national debt to the day, really, when you launched Citizens Free Press, about 30
00:45:46.680
years, okay, of you doing other things. For eight years, every day, you've worked this relentless. You're
00:45:52.440
back to the old drudge, even pre-Andrew, right? So you're doing it, you're doing it 24-7. The, I want to
00:45:58.380
make sure somebody, because the convergence above his budget, but I would actually argue in the
00:46:04.340
reality of CNN at that time, and the reason it resonated was not Bernie Schar, who was a, who's a
00:46:08.780
hardcore lefty, was Lou Dobbs. President Trump, the formation of this movement, Lou Dobbs is the
00:46:17.120
railhead of the guy that was saying back then, trade, trade deficits, and the focus was Japan,
00:46:23.980
because very quickly after the crash, you know, Japan crashed, right, in the early 90s,
00:46:33.420
and never really to recover, although they've got massive trade deficits with this. China took it
00:46:38.800
over because the Bush Hunter in the early 90s, and the Clintons gave a most favored nation,
00:46:44.100
and WTO, and really, you know, pardoned with the Chinese Communist Party. So as we're here today,
00:46:50.540
we have, for a young man as an intern, we had only two trade and a debt. We had a very small trade
00:46:57.900
deficit. We had some, but not huge. We had a pristine balance sheet, basically. We were a
00:47:03.200
manufacturing hegemon still. We were starting to lose it. The 80s, you start to see losing it,
00:47:08.140
right? 70s and 80s. But the catastrophe before us, as you went about your Wall Street trading,
00:47:14.200
did it ever dawn on you as you were a trader that the country was being gutted, both by trade and by
00:47:20.960
the spending? Because those are the double whammies that have us in the freaking jam we're in today,
00:47:26.680
sir. Yeah, absolutely it dawned on me, dude. Ross Perot. I mean, I was 100% on the Ross Perot
00:47:35.800
train, and not because I thought, you know, yeah, he was talking about the national debt when Clinton
00:47:40.180
and Bush weren't. But he was also talking about what was going to happen to the jobs and the giant
00:47:44.940
sucking sound, obviously. So I saw that coming, and I didn't buy it even at the time. I didn't
00:47:51.200
really buy the, drink the Kool-Aid that the cheap textile jobs would go overseas and go to Mexico,
00:47:57.160
and, you know, the higher wage jobs would come back so quickly and so easily. And they obviously
00:48:02.500
haven't, and Perot has proved to be correct. So yeah, I saw it. But yeah, Ben, I want to really get
00:48:07.540
into this budget stuff because you talked about it. Look, you played MSNBC. These guys are freaking
00:48:12.800
out about $163 billion in cuts to non-defense discretionary, right? That was like $750 million
00:48:20.980
in the previous budget, in last year's fiscal year budget, and we're cutting it down to the $580
00:48:25.900
million range. And they're freaking out because these are all the programs they love. They don't
00:48:31.060
want a 23% cut in any, they don't want a 2% cut in any of it. But, you know, getting into why I was
00:48:38.220
upset yesterday and why every time there's something about the budget, why I break it down
00:48:42.760
is this. All I'm looking for, Bannon, is a path to a balanced budget. And I understand that Trump
00:48:49.480
didn't talk a huge amount in this campaign season about the national debt, but it's an understood
00:48:55.100
thing. You and I both realize, and others as well, the importance of it. So I was sort of hoping that
00:49:00.560
in four years, we could knock this thing down $600 billion a year and get the deficit back,
00:49:06.400
you know, by 2028, approaching that zero mark, right? Because the whole point, what people need
00:49:12.060
to understand about the deficit, and obviously in the accumulation of the annual deficits being the
00:49:18.160
national debt, what they don't understand is interest on the national debt. I gave some charts
00:49:23.000
to your producer before the show today to show how interest has really gone from the sort of $300 billion
00:49:29.040
a year range to this year, this fiscal year, we're only halfway through it, and we're at $582 billion.
00:49:35.600
You see it right there. So on $37 trillion in national debt, if you're having to finance it at
00:49:41.580
3.284%, it's going to cost $1.1 trillion. So that's going to make it the single largest
00:49:47.960
non-discretionary item in the budget. It's going to be larger than defense. We heard yesterday defense
00:49:53.720
is likely to be $1.01 trillion, and interest on the debt at $1.1. So why does this matter? Think
00:50:00.120
about it, people. We only bring in $5 trillion, about $5.1 trillion in total federal revenues,
00:50:05.620
right? We're spending $7.5. We're bringing in $5.1, and $1.1 of it is interest on the debt.
00:50:12.640
That's 20% of our total federal revenues that we're having to spend on the monthly visa bill
00:50:18.900
just to keep it from going up. And I'll quickly say, you know, when I put links in the stack, like
00:50:24.260
look at the national debt four years from now, right? This day in 2029 at $47 trillion. First of
00:50:30.900
all, we're going to be lucky if it's at $47 trillion. It's very possible that it's going to
00:50:35.200
be closer to $50 trillion. And the point is the financing cost on $50 trillion at 3.24%,
00:50:42.220
that's $1.6 trillion in interest payments. You know, I've always, I've been, I've been worried
00:50:49.260
about this for 30 years, right? Wondering what's the breaking point? Well, the breaking point is the
00:50:53.720
bond market. You and I both realized we saw what happened three weeks ago when the bond market kind
00:50:58.060
of did a few wiggles and waggles when it wasn't, when it was a little bit worried about this Republican
00:51:02.700
budget. That's the point. When the bond market goes, when it decides that it needs 1% more or 2% more
00:51:10.160
on every, you know, every length of treasury, then we can no longer finance our debt. As people
00:51:15.680
have said, how do countries go bankrupt? Very, very slowly. And then all of a sudden,
00:51:21.060
all it really takes is for the bond market to give up on U.S. Treasuries. And my, you know,
00:51:26.280
the reason I'm screaming right now, and the reason I'm screaming all over the website is we're finally
00:51:31.080
getting close to that choking point, Bannon. We're getting close to the point where interest on the
00:51:36.360
debt is so large. It takes them such a percentage of our federal revenues raised that we can no
00:51:42.320
longer spend on anything. And so that's why I'm sounding the alarm now, because I would rather
00:51:47.460
than Trump, you know, putting on 10 or 11 trillion, just like Biden did. I'm not just blaming Trump.
00:51:53.220
And Trump's numbers were much lower, by the way, before COVID. Before COVID, Trump had gotten the
00:51:58.960
Obama annual deficits down from like the 1.8 trillion range down closer to a trillion. So he was making
00:52:05.940
progress. So I'm not putting this on Trump. And I understand how this is all politically difficult
00:52:11.400
to do. These are actual cuts. But the point is, if we let it get to 50 trillion or 47 trillion,
00:52:18.000
the interest on that is going to be almost insurmountable. So that's why I'm raising the
00:52:22.440
alarm now. Hang on one second. Hang on one second. Hang on one second. Hang on one second. We'll take you
00:52:27.800
through a break. The great Cain, Citizen Cain is with us. And I got one more bombshell to drop
00:52:39.200
What if he had the brightest mind in the War Room delivering critical financial research every
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Now he's issuing a dire warning about April 11th, a moment that could define Trump's presidency
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This is Jim's flagship financial newsletter, Strategic Intelligence. I read it. You should
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