Bannon's War Room - May 14, 2025


Episode 4483： How AI’s Prioritizes Content Over Individuals, Federal Judge Approves President Trump’s Alien Enemies Usage

Topics
copyright fight Money GPT SAVE Act beef sticks
Hosted by
Steve Bannon
Mentioned
Trump Joe Biden Natalie G. Winters Mark Elias Chuck Gray Darren LaHood Catherine O'Neill Gillihan Mike Lindell MyPillow Jace David Sachs Stephen K. Banff Stephen K. Mann Jonathan Barnett Bashar Assad Mike Gallagher Sam Harris Hunter Biden Sacred Human Mike Davis and 17 more
Episode 4480： Texas House Betrays Its Constituents WarRoom Battleground EP 769： Stopping The Importing Of H1B's To The US

Episode Stats


Length

55 minutes

Words per minute

167.12

Word count

9,215

Sentence count

591

Harmful content

Misogyny

4

sentences flagged

Toxicity

2

sentences flagged

Hate speech

14

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Trump's trip to Saudi Arabia and other Middle Eastern countries is a must-listen, especially in the wake of the State of the Union address, where he met with Saudi Arabia's King Salman and other important leaders. He also delivered a stern message to Iran about its nuclear ambitions.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00.000 the great war room. Thank you so much, Eric. Always an honor to join you and always an honor
00:00:05.760 to join you guys. War Room Posse. Let's bring the show in. We have an epic cold. It's Natalie
00:00:09.960 Winters hosting today. Let's start it. I know the president spoke for nearly an hour. What
00:00:15.120 are the big headlines there? Well, he talked about a lot of issues, certainly a focus on
00:00:22.000 the economics, but there are some diplomatic headlines that are coming out of his remarks
00:00:26.160 as well. He talked about the United States lifting sanctions on Syria. You, of course,
00:00:31.900 remember the former leader there, Bashar al-Assad, left the country and there is a new leader
00:00:38.620 in place. And of course, the past atrocities carried out by Bashar al-Assad were part of
00:00:45.320 the reason that those sanctions were put in place. The president saying he intends to lift
00:00:49.840 those that received a rousing response here in Saudi Arabia. That's part of it. He also
00:00:55.840 had a message for Iran. Obviously, that is of strategic importance to Saudi Arabia as well
00:01:02.000 as the United States. Certainly, Israel has an important interest there. And the U.S. has
00:01:07.320 been trying to get to a point where there is a non-nuclear state trying to tamp down on the 0.72
00:01:14.120 ambitions within Iran to advance to having a weapon, something the U.S. says they cannot
00:01:18.640 have, even though they have an active program to enrich uranium and to try to bring about the
00:01:24.640 science to get them there. And the president had a message for the people of Iran and what he
00:01:29.880 calls a different path that they could take.
00:01:35.620 Iran will never have a nuclear weapon.
00:01:38.540 But with that said, Iran can have a much brighter future, but will never allow America and its allies 1.00
00:01:52.440 to be threatened with terrorism or nuclear attack. The choice is theirs to make. We really want them
00:01:59.060 to be a successful country. We want them to be a wonderful, safe, great country. But they cannot have
00:02:05.660 a nuclear weapon. This is an offer that will not last forever. The time is right now for them to choose.
00:02:13.700 Right now, we don't have a lot of time to wait.
00:02:15.940 The president putting pressure on the leadership in Iran. Those are the diplomatic notes we've been
00:02:24.480 hearing in what, for much of the early part of this day, was structured and scheduled to be about
00:02:29.180 economic development. The United States having companies that would do investment here in Saudi Arabia
00:02:34.300 and Saudi Arabia buying military equipment and making investments in the United States. Things that the
00:02:39.760 president feels comfortable talking about, trying to be that deal maker. And certainly another notable
00:02:45.760 thing was outside the United States, quite critical of Joe Biden. We hear him criticize Joe Biden often,
00:02:51.840 but to do it outside the United States is certainly notable.
00:02:54.720 This is the primal scream of a dying regime.
00:03:01.460 And where do people like that go to share the big line? Mega media. I wish in my soul, I wish that any of these people had a conscience.
00:03:15.540 Ask yourself, what is my task? And what is my purpose? If that answer is to save my country, this country will be saved.
00:03:22.540 War Room. Here's your host, Stephen K. Banff.
00:03:25.540 I know you try to do everything in the world to stop that, but you're not going to stop it. It's going to happen.
00:03:28.540 And where do people like that go to share the big line? Mega media.
00:03:30.540 I wish in my soul, I wish that any of these people had a conscience.
00:03:34.540 Ask yourself, what is my task and what is my purpose? If that answer is to save my country, this country will be saved.
00:03:40.540 Here's your host, Stephen K. Banff.
00:03:49.540 Just a historic day, Tuesday, May 13th in the year of our Lord 2025.
00:03:54.540 It's Natalie Winters hosting War Room today.
00:03:57.540 As I always say, don't go anywhere. Luckily, with President Trump back in office, we always have a packed show.
00:04:02.540 Though actually for good reasons, not for the reasons we used to have to pack them in under Joe Biden.
00:04:08.540 No honorific title there. You saw that cold open.
00:04:12.540 This is what it's like to be respected by the rest of the world again.
00:04:16.540 I guess they always say what it's better to be feared than loved.
00:04:20.540 I don't think Joe Biden even had the chance to have either.
00:04:24.540 I think, though, the reception that President Trump has received from the Saudis is truly indicative.
00:04:30.540 A man who was, what, on trial for like 18 different felonies would be sitting in prison had Kamala Harris won.
00:04:36.540 He now gets a better reception, frankly, than Democrats gave him at the State of the Union.
00:04:40.540 I saw more American flags during today's processions than I think I saw maybe at even the fake LARPy DNC they had this year.
00:04:49.540 I think the only time we ever saw that level of organized and well thought through reception really was from Joe Biden greeting illegal aliens at the southern border.
00:05:01.540 You guys, I'm sure, have seen the split screen images, images of what Joe Biden received versus what President Trump received from the Saudis, which are, you know, no, no perfect vessel, shall we say.
00:05:14.540 Obviously, a lot to get into there, which we're going to get into throughout this show.
00:05:18.540 But there is a small, well, I guess actually massive victory.
00:05:22.540 The first federal judge, a Trump appointee.
00:05:25.540 It's funny how when it's a Trump appointee, oftentimes the outcomes seem to be a little different.
00:05:30.540 And actually, I don't know this bizarre word constitutional, but ruling that President Trump can actually invoke the Alien Enemies Act to deport Trendy Aragua members. 0.89
00:05:43.540 It's a massive win. We've seen, I think, all the sort of Democrat or more established Republican appointed.
00:05:48.540 Justice is essentially rebuke that idea.
00:05:51.540 So this is quite, I think, powerful.
00:05:54.540 We'll see how it shakes out.
00:05:56.540 But, you know, here in the war room, we're not about victory parties.
00:05:59.540 We are about action, action, action, and trying to upend the administrative state.
00:06:05.540 And I guess their new strange bedfellow, the new odd couple that is the Tech Bros, which we saw, I think, on full display with their quirkiness in Saudi Arabia. 0.97
00:06:15.540 I know David Sox has been over, I think, in the UAE for a while.
00:06:19.540 Striking a lot of, shall we say, curious deals, which I want to drill into.
00:06:25.540 Maybe it's confirmation bias or maybe it's genuinely a, as we call it, a NATSEC threat.
00:06:32.540 I would put my money on the ladder.
00:06:34.540 But particularly when it comes to semiconductors and chips, obviously there was, what, 600 billion plus worth of announcements of investments released today between the Saudis and the United States.
00:06:46.540 But one vertical that is particularly concerning that has a lot of China hawks, which I proudly consider myself to be, and I'm sure you guys do, too, concerned is the sharing of advanced semiconductor chips, stuff in kind of that realm of the technological sphere.
00:07:00.540 With the Saudis and with the Emiratis, particularly with firms that have deep ties to the Chinese Communist Party.
00:07:08.540 In the case of the Emirati firm, I believe it's G42, they actually used to work with Huawei, which you may recall was the sanctioned, if not just outright blacklisted Chinese, essentially military proxy telecommunications firm, very advanced in the whole 5G race.
00:07:25.540 Really, I think, illustrative of the military civil fusion that you see going on in China, how these companies are used as effectively in some cases just outright or sometimes more clandestinely, but as state owned assets, whether it's intellectual property theft or sometimes just outright espionage.
00:07:40.540 But these are the kind of firms that are now likely going to receive, I think, in some cases, potentially hundreds of thousands of these highly sensitive chips, which, like we said, have, you know, there's been case after case, indictment after indictment of Chinese nationals coming overseas or trying to pull Western researchers overseas to gain access to this technology.
00:08:02.400 This is, right, what the whole Made in China 2025 initiative really is about, right?
00:08:08.360 High tech is the way that they are attempting to rule the world.
00:08:11.900 The crux of that, of course, I think, being Taiwan. 0.78
00:08:14.360 So it seems rather, I would posit curious that all these tech bros are sort of trying to, I think, undermine what President Trump is doing in terms of, you know, whether it's the most favored nation status when it comes to China.
00:08:25.460 And really reasserting fair trade, not just free trade, but that we'd be working to bolster and embolden the Chinese Communist Party, particularly on the technological front.
00:08:37.600 And I guess we'll return to war room tradition, our roots of being, what is it?
00:08:44.200 I think conversion therapy for rhinos.
00:08:47.020 I should trademark that one.
00:08:48.200 I stand by that.
00:08:49.080 But, unfortunately, congressional Republicans, we can toss the tweet up on screen, really have nothing to say about this except one three-tweet thread and a strongly worded letter.
00:09:03.580 I guess old habits die hard from the select committee on the Chinese Communist Party, the chairman of it.
00:09:09.560 I want to read you a quote.
00:09:11.300 It's not all that fire-breathing quote.
00:09:13.080 The U.S. must lead the world in AI technology, but we must do it securely.
00:09:16.220 The CCP is actively seeking indirect access to our top tech.
00:09:19.900 Okay, I agree with that.
00:09:21.280 Deals like this require scrutiny and verifiable guardrails.
00:09:23.880 We raised concerns about G42 last year, that's the Emirati firm, for this very reason. 1.00
00:09:28.620 And we need safeguards in place before more agreements move forward.
00:09:33.760 Now, if only I knew of people or a little body called the United States Congress that I don't know also right now happens to be negotiating stuff that directly interplays with all of this.
00:09:45.440 If only, Chairman Moulin-Yar, if you, I don't know, looked in the mirror.
00:09:50.660 I don't know about you guys, but I'm getting pretty sick and tired of the, shall we say, pandemic of passive voice with the Republican Party.
00:09:59.720 It seems to plague them, where all they can do is tweet about these problems and put out strongly worded letters and statements. 0.84
00:10:06.340 Call a frickin' hearing.
00:10:09.040 Now, are you guys too busy canceling votes on codifying the doge cuts or canceling the hearings on the radical judges? 0.75
00:10:16.060 Maybe that's what's taking up all your time, right?
00:10:18.360 And you certainly can't say that it's because you've been sending, what is it, a bunch of legislation over President Trump to sign into law.
00:10:25.820 Because if I have my facts straight, you guys have sent fewer bills to President Trump than any Congress over the last 70 years.
00:10:33.560 Now, you know, we always bring the receipts, shall we say.
00:10:39.920 And I want to bring a very specific receipt in terms of this select committee on the Chinese Communist Party,
00:10:45.900 which, as far as I'm concerned, was set up by Mike Gallagher, only so he could, what, use it as a stepping stone to go work at Palantir?
00:10:51.440 That doesn't quite reek of understanding the threat of the Chinese Communist Party.
00:10:55.660 He bailed out.
00:10:56.620 He said, I'll go take my nice check.
00:10:58.700 So now the new chairman and a bunch of no-name backbenchers who are on this committee,
00:11:03.020 though let's make one of them famous right now, Darren LaHood of Illinois.
00:11:08.400 So get this straight.
00:11:10.560 The guy who was sitting on this committee that thinks that it's okay to just put out tweets to counter the Chinese Communist Party
00:11:16.940 in a bunch of weak, strongly-worded letters that my reporting at 19 was probably more forceful then.
00:11:22.540 Well, this guy actually met with various Chinese Communist Party influence groups, particularly in 2022.
00:11:29.760 You guys have heard, I'm sure, about the Chinese Communist Party trying to expand control over the United States by buying up farmland. 0.89
00:11:36.240 And one of the primary conduits through which they've done this is a group called the U.S.-China Heartland Association
00:11:41.160 in conjunction with two United Front Work Department groups known as the China United States Exchange Foundation
00:11:47.240 and the Chinese People's Association for Friendship with Foreign Countries.
00:11:51.820 Quite a mouthful.
00:11:52.660 Quite innocuous.
00:11:54.120 Nothing could be further from the truth.
00:11:55.640 These are hardcore Marxist organizations that work using a multi-billion dollar budget from Beijing
00:12:02.040 to co-opt, subvert, neutralize Western politicians and Western elites to peddle the line of Beijing.
00:12:08.160 So, Congressman LaHood, who's supposed to be so tough on the Chinese Communist Party,
00:12:14.780 he actually spoke at one of their events in 2022, helping the Chinese Communist Party
00:12:20.120 and their assets strategize how they could better infiltrate American farmland
00:12:25.340 because maybe we could find some ways to collaborate.
00:12:27.820 I don't know about you, but collaboration is probably one of those words like comprehensive immigration reform,
00:12:36.160 unity, Ukraine aid, where basically any time I hear it, especially in the context of the Chinese Communist Party,
00:12:42.960 I think that's called a hard no.
00:12:47.000 And this group is also intricately linked with Bill Gates.
00:12:49.400 So, these are the people who are going to be so tough, so tough on the Chinese Communist Party,
00:12:56.160 busy helping them strategize how to buy your farmland.
00:13:01.400 Right?
00:13:02.000 It's the art of the deal that's President Trump and hardliners like Peter Navarro,
00:13:08.560 formerly Lighthizer, now Jameson Greer,
00:13:11.000 versus the art of war.
00:13:12.400 And incumbent with that is the intense and elaborate compromise of elites like Congressman Darren LaHood,
00:13:19.640 who, when we actually have a national security threat,
00:13:22.120 where I actually think some congressional pushback probing,
00:13:24.720 if not outright committee hearings, would be very, very justified
00:13:28.080 in the case of getting ready to essentially turn over hundreds of thousands of highly sensitive chips
00:13:33.280 just because David Sachs and a couple of tech bros want to make a quick buck.
00:13:40.700 Where are they?
00:13:41.480 I guess Darren's too busy helping lecture the Chinese Communist Party
00:13:45.720 how they can buy up that plot of land next to your house
00:13:47.800 so they can, I don't know, better grow crops,
00:13:49.560 that's the euphemistic spin,
00:13:50.980 in the name of collaboration.
00:13:53.460 Yet where has collaboration gotten us?
00:13:56.580 What is it, 145% tariffs?
00:13:59.720 Only because they totally reneged on the Phase 1 deal
00:14:02.140 that was already a skinny deal
00:14:03.240 because they refused to do anything
00:14:04.680 actually substantive because they wouldn't sign and agree
00:14:07.060 that they wouldn't stop stealing intellectual property,
00:14:09.440 devaluing the dollar.
00:14:11.480 Using pseudo-dormant state-owned enterprises?
00:14:14.040 I mean, good on them, I guess.
00:14:17.980 Compromise the guy who's serving on the committee to take you on.
00:14:22.060 You get to play judge, jury, and executioner.
00:14:24.640 And I guess, speaking of judges,
00:14:25.940 I would say I'm pretty curious why all of these judges,
00:14:28.900 whose spouses oftentimes somehow conveniently end up on the payroll of the Chinese Communist Party, too, 0.93
00:14:33.500 seem to be neutering and nullifying President Trump's agenda, too.
00:14:36.540 So, we've got a lot to get to, whether it's the copyright law.
00:14:41.600 We're going to drill down on this with an AI expert.
00:14:44.820 It's not just the war room that's sounding the red alarms.
00:14:47.020 A lot of people are.
00:14:48.060 Though I guess congressional Republicans aren't.
00:14:49.660 But I guess what's new?
00:14:50.920 They're too busy, I don't know,
00:14:52.420 increasing the deficit by, like, $20 trillion.
00:14:54.740 We'll be right back after this short break.
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00:16:28.220 Here's your host, Stephen K. Bannon.
00:16:33.360 Welcome back to The War Room.
00:16:36.620 We are going to get into the AI stuff more on the China side of things,
00:16:40.400 but I want to get into something that I know we've had Mike Davis on a lot to cover,
00:16:45.720 which is what's been going down at the copyright office, sort of the tussle,
00:16:50.680 that's a euphemistic way to put it, that's been going on.
00:16:54.140 And like all things that maybe aren't super MAGA or maybe you just look MAGA at face value,
00:16:58.680 all roads kind of always lead to the tech bros, perhaps a reductive way to put it,
00:17:03.080 but I think War Room stands by that being the thesis.
00:17:05.960 I am honored to bring on Professor Jonathan Barnett,
00:17:11.100 who is one of, I think, the leaders in the field when it comes to sort of the copyright stuff,
00:17:15.740 how the AI all sort of interplays in that.
00:17:19.380 But I want you to kind of bring us up to speed.
00:17:21.940 Like I said, we've had Mike Davis on the show a lot talking about this.
00:17:25.240 You know, this goes back.
00:17:26.500 They, what, sort of want to be able to steal everyone's IP more or less for profit.
00:17:30.720 Then they kind of did a hostile takeover, maybe under valid circumstances of the copyright office.
00:17:36.620 And then there's some interesting legislation that's being pushed forth, which we'll get into.
00:17:40.120 But can you just sort of explain the threat and sort of the different factions in this fight
00:17:45.480 and what our audience really needs to understand about this impending kind of copyright fight?
00:17:51.820 Absolutely. And it's great to be here today.
00:17:54.800 This is an age-old tension and fight between the interests of content and tech.
00:18:00.140 And roughly since the mid-2000s, all the way through the present, pretty much wherever you look,
00:18:07.260 the law and the courts in Congress, whether by acting or not acting,
00:18:12.460 has favored the interests of tech over content.
00:18:15.760 And what we've ended up with, especially with the fair use exemption,
00:18:20.620 which has grown to proportions that we haven't historically ever had in this country,
00:18:25.820 is an ecosystem that systematically favors platforms that aggregate content over individuals,
00:18:34.260 small firms, production companies that produce that content.
00:18:38.200 It's really hard to reconcile that state of affairs with our founders' vision of the copyright
00:18:44.520 as set forth directly in the Constitution.
00:18:47.220 So is the big threat with this more so from a data collection perspective,
00:18:54.380 where our audience could see, you know, whatever they've created or, you know,
00:18:58.500 either directly or indirectly end up in the hands of corporations or just big tech firms
00:19:02.980 that they probably don't want it to be in?
00:19:04.600 Or is there, you know, sort of picking up on what I was talking about in the last segment,
00:19:08.460 the national security threat, where you see foreign countries, China or otherwise,
00:19:12.240 sort of getting involved in this, is it sort of a multi-pronged threat?
00:19:16.060 Or is it more so just, oh, you should be able to own what you create?
00:19:21.220 I think there's two things happening there, and you touched on both of them.
00:19:25.340 Going again, right back to the founder's vision, what was the point of the copyright?
00:19:30.200 It was to invest the individual with a copyright that allows them to bargain
00:19:35.980 for the fair value of their creation in a creative market.
00:19:39.640 When you weaken copyright, you take away that bargaining power.
00:19:44.680 What you're doing is what I like to call a reverse Robinhood effect.
00:19:48.240 You shift wealth away from individuals and smaller entities that are producing content.
00:19:54.420 You're transferring that over to some of the largest corporations in the world.
00:19:58.700 That's both inefficient economically and it's unfair ethically.
00:20:03.460 On the China angle, we should keep in mind that while we have a trade deficit in goods
00:20:10.600 versus the rest of the world, including China, we have a massive IP surplus versus the rest of the world.
00:20:18.500 That's our core advantage.
00:20:20.340 And therefore, it's in a U.S. national interest, U.S. geopolitical leadership,
00:20:25.900 to bolster our IP rights system rather than weaken it, as we've been doing.
00:20:30.920 And this has been sort of an ongoing debate.
00:20:35.340 You wrote a great book on it, The Big Steel, Ideology, Interest, and the Undoing of Intellectual Property.
00:20:41.980 But why is this sort of re-emerging now?
00:20:47.400 Yeah, it's coming up now just as it came up at the dawn of the Internet.
00:20:51.740 Something I talk about in my book is platforms such as YouTube.
00:20:57.520 You've got a new technology, makes it easy to take content without paying for it.
00:21:02.840 There's pressure on courts, pressure on legislators to favor that business model.
00:21:08.080 But we should take lessons from the way the digital content markets have evolved and have matured.
00:21:14.720 If you take the streaming platforms today, they all rely on technologies that regulate access.
00:21:20.460 And that's a good thing because it allows markets to form, allows prices to be attached to content,
00:21:26.740 and it ultimately delivers remuneration back to the individuals and the smaller entities that have produced that content.
00:21:33.800 There's no reason to revisit this debate again in the AI ecosystem.
00:21:38.160 It's the same question, and what we should be looking for is an equitable legal regime that enables markets to form licensing solutions
00:21:49.720 that will deliver value to creators without unduly impeding the growth of AI platforms and models and apps.
00:21:58.100 So can you sort of flesh out what a world, what the world would look like if they were, you know, they being whatever we call them, the tech bros,
00:22:07.700 maybe that's too cutesy a term, much like deep state is for the administrative state.
00:22:11.900 But if they were to get what they want or whoever within the Trump administration sort of orchestrated, you know,
00:22:17.600 the removal of some people from the copyright office, which for valid reason, they were kind of far left crazy,
00:22:22.880 giving Lizzo the flute probably not a good idea, but I think there definitely were ulterior motives there,
00:22:28.340 as I think both of those officials had sort of expressed the idea that maybe they wanted to stand up for the copyright privileges
00:22:34.360 and protections of Americans.
00:22:35.860 But if they're able to sort of just steamroll over this office and continue this, what does that mean for our audience?
00:22:43.060 What does that world ultimately look like?
00:22:45.100 And that's going to be a world where the value generated by content will flow to a relatively small number of platforms,
00:22:54.740 as opposed to a world in which that value is far more widely distributed among the far more numerous creators
00:23:03.300 and individuals and entities that contribute to making content, promoting content and distributing content.
00:23:11.000 And the AI ecosystem can thrive under a robust copyright regime with adaptations that account for the specifics of AI ecosystems.
00:23:21.660 But there's no reason to run roughshod over the property rights of creators.
00:23:26.640 Property rights in creative markets are necessary to sustain markets, just as they are in any other kind of market that we're familiar with.
00:23:34.940 It sounds like kind of the digital equivalent of you'll own nothing and you'll be happy.
00:23:42.780 Last question before I let you go.
00:23:46.060 The committees on energy and commerce, it was sort of not leaked, but, you know, came out today and caused, I think, a bit of an outrage online.
00:23:55.760 They were debating what's called the Artificial Intelligence and Information Technology Modernization Initiative.
00:24:01.040 And I want to just read a section for you. I'm just curious to get your sort of top line assessment.
00:24:06.620 But one of the subsections says that, quote,
00:24:09.320 no state or political subdivision may enforce any law or regulation regulating artificial intelligence models,
00:24:15.440 artificial intelligence systems or automated decision systems during the 10-year period beginning on the date of the enactment of this act.
00:24:23.620 In other words, it kind of sounds like they want a 10-year amnesty.
00:24:26.980 I don't like any time the word amnesty is said on Capitol Hill, but I think especially in the field of of A.I.,
00:24:33.100 what's your sort of take on maybe just more broadly, you know, who exactly is pushing for this just sort of laissez-faire,
00:24:40.900 you know, own goal, open goal shots or shots on goal for the kind of A.I. community?
00:24:46.020 Yeah, I'm not specifically familiar with what transpired today, but that language is most likely reflecting the vision coming out of the White House,
00:24:59.580 David Sachs in particular, which I think makes sense, which is a light touch approach to the A.I. ecosystem,
00:25:06.640 allowing the U.S. market to grow organically and giving us an advantage over the approach that's been taken in the European Union in particular,
00:25:17.240 which is a top-down approach or regulation-heavy approach that's typical of the European approach.
00:25:23.320 And you can easily compare the difference between the innovation performance in Europe, which is weak, heavy regulation,
00:25:30.020 and the U.S. approach, which is lighter on regulation, and we shine in terms of innovation.
00:25:36.880 And I think that's what you're seeing in that language. It's reflecting the messaging coming out of the White House.
00:25:41.180 And I think as a general matter, if we want to have an A.I. ecosystem that is a world leader,
00:25:48.560 I think that vision coming out of the White House is the right one.
00:25:54.660 Jonathan, thank you so much for joining us.
00:25:56.580 If people want to follow you, stay up to date with everything you're working on,
00:25:59.920 and most importantly, get the book, really read up on it, because it's an important kind of...
00:26:03.820 Don't sleep on it. It's an important topic. Where can they go to do all that?
00:26:07.980 Sure. The book is most easily available through the Amazon or Barnes & Noble websites
00:26:15.280 or directly from the publisher, Oxford University.
00:26:19.420 And links are also available through my LinkedIn page.
00:26:22.680 Thanks very much to speak with you today.
00:26:24.200 Thank you, sir, for joining us. We'll have you back on.
00:26:26.060 Warren Posse, while you're at it, make sure you're checking out birchgold.com
00:26:32.420 slash Bannon, texting Bannon to 989898, giving the guys over there a call, an email, download the books.
00:26:39.200 You know the drill.
00:26:41.500 By the way, I just have to add, you guys know I'm what the probably infamous face of the new media initiative.
00:26:48.500 I love it. There's all this coverage now about how, you know,
00:26:50.720 oh, we should have, I don't know, reported that Joe Biden was going to have to use a wheelchair.
00:26:54.080 No shade to wheelchairs. 1.00
00:26:55.540 But now the White House Correspondent Association is melting down that some of the reporters were kicked off of Air Force One or can't do the wire service.
00:27:03.400 I don't know about you guys. I'll be able to go on without having AP or Reuters poorly written, probably propaganda written wires influencing my coverage.
00:27:11.660 But one of my favorite quotes from their statement was, quote,
00:27:14.160 They've reliably covered every president for decades, for the millions of Americans who depend on their reporting every day.
00:27:22.800 Talk about crisis acting and stolen valor.
00:27:25.220 I think you'd be hard pressed to find, I don't know, maybe hundreds of thousands of Americans who take anything that the AP or Reuters says seriously.
00:27:31.760 But let's get to the crux of what they're doing with this Joe Biden limited hangout.
00:27:36.260 It was never about the fact that the press corps covered up for his age.
00:27:39.800 That's what they want you to think is the biggest scandal of the Biden regime.
00:27:42.540 No, it's because if you actually had to understand what this regime did from the southern border, the invasion, the Green New Deal, Afghanistan, take your pick, any issue.
00:27:54.660 It's more palatable from their eyes for you to have you think that Joe Biden was out to lunch and this was all just a result, really, of the age old question we've always asked here in the war room, right?
00:28:04.700 Intentional versus incompetence.
00:28:05.980 It was just incompetence.
00:28:06.940 He was dead.
00:28:08.140 I think essentially dead was what I told CNN.
00:28:10.980 But no, it was all intentional.
00:28:12.280 And it was all by design.
00:28:14.180 And I hope congressional Republicans would, I don't know, do something for once and hold some hearings to try to figure out who, I don't know, orchestrated the invasion of the southern border.
00:28:21.460 Is that too much to ask?
00:28:23.720 Stop tweeting about it and actually do something.
00:28:26.680 We'll be right.
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00:29:49.440 Here's your host, Stephen K. Mann.
00:29:51.880 Welcome back to The War Room, where I think we have always pushed back on the idea that it is akin to the first law of thermodynamics that the Chinese Communist Party is going to rise, that there is some Thucydides-esque trap going on here.
00:30:10.440 I think that that rise of China, you know, we always say, has not occurred in a vacuum, it has occurred at the hands, if not outright, I think, sell out, although I think that's too nice a term, it's not just elite merger, or rather elite capture, it's elite merger, I think, between the United States or the West more broadly and the Chinese Communist Party. 0.70
00:30:27.360 But it's happened because they've been buttressed, and really, I think, able to ascend geopolitically, financially, take your pick, because American elites have sold out to them, or they've just stolen the IP theft, take your pick, it's all bad, they get away with it.
00:30:43.340 But someone who is far more of an expert on me, you know, I could rattle on about the United Front Work Department for days, one day I will be able to do that again, is Isaac Stonefish, who is the CEO of Strategy Risks,
00:30:55.920 a kind of consulting firm that ranks companies on their exposure to China, you're all over the media, I think you probably won't take offense if I call you a China hawk, but I wanted to have you on to talk about what is going on with these chips, the new deal, that I think is sort of already underway, your overall assessment of the national security risks that could potentially be posed by sending over, in some cases, hundreds of thousands of chips, NVIDIA or otherwise, to the Saudis, to the Emirates,
00:31:25.920 and eventually, and eventually, maybe even the Chinese Communist Party.
00:31:29.700 There's a very worrying deal that's being discussed, and possibly even going to go through as early as this week, that will send hundreds of thousands of NVIDIA cutting-edge chips to companies that have ties not only to the Saudi and Emirati governments, but also to the Chinese Communist Party.
00:31:46.380 And the problems are multifold, two that I'll point out right now.
00:31:51.940 One is the idea that when you are sending cutting-edge technology to the Saudi and Emirati government, we have very little guarantee that those two governments aren't sharing those with the Communist Party.
00:32:06.720 And then this particular entity, G42, does have problematic ties to the Communist Party.
00:32:14.220 And walk us through G42.
00:32:16.080 I think they were formerly working with Huawei, then they allegedly abandoned it in favor so they could deal with Microsoft, which I would argue is almost equally ardently controlled by the Chinese Communist Party.
00:32:26.320 But give us just sort of a sense of the landscape within the chip space, right?
00:32:30.380 A lot of these companies are already at face value, sort of heavily exposed to the PRC.
00:32:35.960 The problem with G42 is twofold.
00:32:39.820 One is the exposure that we know about.
00:32:42.820 The Wire China, an excellent publication, did a great report on that company's ties to the Communist Party.
00:32:49.680 The Select Committee has amplified those concerns.
00:32:53.920 And the ties to Huawei, to the party, possibly to the People's Liberation Army, which, as you know, is the armed wing of the Communist Party, we know some of those.
00:33:04.120 There's so much that we don't know.
00:33:05.540 And so the problem with this is, here is this opaque corporate structure that has entities in China.
00:33:12.940 Are we comfortable giving them all of this access?
00:33:16.520 And the deal with Microsoft that you pointed out was, Microsoft tried to convince the U.S. government that they would be trusted hands in working with G42.
00:33:26.420 And I got to say, politely, that raises a lot of questions.
00:33:30.260 It seems like, you know, and I think it's probably been at the forefront of everyone's mind with a debate going on about the tariffs, right?
00:33:38.460 Obviously, intellectual property theft.
00:33:40.300 But this is almost a weird form of, like, consensual intellectual property theft where it's maybe, like, delayed a few years.
00:33:47.640 So, you know, through maybe one intermediary, it's somehow going to end up in the hands of the Chinese Communist Party.
00:33:53.240 I'm curious, from your perspective, having, you know, analyzed so many companies and just sort of see deals like this play out time and time again.
00:33:59.260 In your experience, what are sort of the motivating factors, whether it's from a company or even country perspective, to pursue deals like this, which are, you know, not advantageous to America's national security?
00:34:10.480 Is this something where it's just a difference in ideology, like, you know, the tech bro faction, the David Sachs of the world who are pushing this, just maybe don't view the Chinese as much of a threat as maybe we do here in the war room or, you know, your firm do?
00:34:23.160 Or is it something more nefarious where you think a lot of people who are tied up in this deal, there's room for, you know, actual compromise or blackmail or more traditional kind of methods of, you know, PRC infiltration or espionage?
00:34:35.480 Great question. One is short-term thinking that is common in boardrooms where they think, okay, how do I handle this for Q3, Q4, as opposed to thinking ahead in several years?
00:34:47.820 Second is an inability to price externalities, even within an own firm.
00:34:51.220 So thinking that, oh, great, I'm going to do this deal. It's going to bring in $300, $400 million of revenue, but it's going to hurt our firm overall because it's going to give the Chinese access to cutting-edge IP. 0.98
00:35:02.000 Another one is this misguided, just quixotic view that the Communist Party does not want to steal U.S. technology, is not in a competition and arguably something even more dire with the United States.
00:35:20.680 And this sort of kumbaya, we can all get along and dance together happily type of view that you still see sometimes among companies.
00:35:29.660 And so my worry with many major U.S. corporations, especially those in cutting-edge technology, is the sense that if it's not banned explicitly by law, we're going to find a way to do it with China or with other governments.
00:35:44.900 And there's also this transit of property there, the, oh, maybe we can't sell directly to the People's Liberation Army, but we can sell to an entity that would give it to the People's Liberation Army.
00:35:52.880 And that, in my mind, is also quite problematic.
00:35:56.260 It also seems sort of like, for lack of a better word, like a negating almost foil or counter to what I think TSMC did here, right, by trying to make us more reliant, independent, stop the intellectual property theft.
00:36:08.640 Can you maybe explain to our audience why these chips just, you know, from the get-go are so important in sort of the dual-use technology, the military-civil fusion, how this isn't just, you know, they want it for their toasters or advanced electronics.
00:36:24.200 There's nefarious applications that the Chinese are seeking these chips for. 0.97
00:36:29.040 Absolutely. And there's plenty of people who have a much more sophisticated understanding of the underpinning technology.
00:36:34.620 I'll say the chips, you could see them as building blocks for AI or what companies need to build cutting-edge AI models.
00:36:43.000 And the problem with the Communist Party having that, again, twofold.
00:36:47.980 One is it allows for them to compete or beat the United States in the global AI race.
00:36:56.260 So many implications on that.
00:36:57.520 And the second is, as you said, the very dual-use nature of these chips and this technology.
00:37:04.560 And this is not only about human rights abuses in China, the ability to build better prisons and better monitoring systems through AI, but also all of the military implications.
00:37:14.780 And again, here's where the links between the Communist Party and the military are very important.
00:37:20.480 The PLA is the armed wing of the Communist Party.
00:37:24.660 It's a very different system than we have here.
00:37:27.300 So civil-military fusion where, say, companies like Tencent or Alibaba, which aren't officially state-owned, work with the military is one thing.
00:37:35.340 But every Chinese SOE is under the same family as the Communist Party.
00:37:40.280 And so it's already much more fused than I worry that people will say, oh, I'm worried about, say, Bank of China or ICBC or these other Chinese companies and their links to the party and the military.
00:37:50.080 Well, they're already part of the party in the military.
00:37:52.800 And so we have to understand that from the get-go.
00:37:54.400 And just last question before we let you go, do you see any bright spots from a regulatory perspective or legislative perspective or maybe even from a certain company's perspective that are refusing to collaborate or anything like that, that our audience can look to or that you think the Trump administration should replicate or sign into law if there's something coming from Congress?
00:38:15.380 Or have their influence efforts successfully, I think, prevailed through most of D.C.?
00:38:22.380 I'm glad that being tough on the Communist Party is bipartisan in Congress.
00:38:27.340 It's long been a rare area of that.
00:38:29.200 And there are some really bright people in the Trump administration who are pushing really hard on these issues.
00:38:35.540 My worry, and it's hard to end on an optimistic note, is that corporations will not focus on national security and longer-term concerns and more focus on what's right in front of them.
00:38:49.920 Thank you.
00:39:19.900 Posse, it's wild times.
00:39:21.700 I wish congressional Republicans would do something about it.
00:39:25.040 So often when you hear people talk tough on China, it's a bipartisan consensus because the Uniparty thinks that they can deceive you by using it, frankly, just to justify a, what, trillion-dollar defense budget?
00:39:36.540 Yet in reality, you have people working to send over the very same chips that the PLA is ultimately going to use to manufacture the weapons that they're going to use to fight us, even though they don't want to go kinetic.
00:39:46.880 Or, I don't know, the same people who are going to be probably fighting us potentially on that kinetic battlefield, or at least certainly in the economic, information, political, and other spheres.
00:39:54.920 Well, I guess we're educating 350,000 of them at the behest and outright, sometimes funding.
00:40:02.140 You know, the Chinese Scholarship Council, which is responsible for funding so many foreign students here in the United States, they actually assess which Chinese people they will give scholarships to based on how allegiant they are to the Chinese Communist Party.
00:40:13.840 Of course, always caveated that the Lao Bajing, the Chinese people, are the greatest victim of the Chinese Communist Party.
00:40:22.860 Take down the CCP, right?
00:40:24.980 We are joined now by Secretary Chuck Gray of the great state of Wyoming, one of my personal favorites.
00:40:35.140 We got a few minutes.
00:40:36.120 I want to hold you through the break, but let me get this straight.
00:40:38.480 Mark Elias and the lovely, crazy, lefty lawfare brigade, they're busy suing you because you want to make sure that only citizens vote in our elections.
00:40:47.840 Am I right?
00:40:50.200 We're back, and we predicted it, that Mark Elias and the radical leftists would be suing us on our proof of citizenship for registering to vote requirement.
00:41:01.260 And this is the failed Russian hoaxer who has been sanctioned by the Fifth Circuit, Mark Elias, who, as Steve Bannon notes, he does fight, though.
00:41:10.360 And so we have to take this seriously because they're clearly trying to set up a test case on proof of citizenship for registering to vote.
00:41:18.280 Because our proof of citizenship requirement is so aligned with the SAFE Act, they're trying to win in this case to throw out proof of citizenship at the federal level and across our nation.
00:41:29.900 So we have to win, and we're going to defend the law.
00:41:32.760 We're going to defend our strong proof of citizenship and proof of residency registration requirement that we put into place in the 2025 legislative session.
00:41:43.000 When you say test case, can you walk the audience through how it would sort of get worked up potentially to the federal level or why you think they're starting with Wyoming?
00:41:54.420 Elias filed in federal court, and I think that tells you something.
00:41:59.900 And he talks about in the complaint how aligned this law is with documentary proof of citizenship, how strong it is and how aligned it is with a true documentary proof of citizenship requirement, which other states that have reported to do this have all these carve-outs.
00:42:20.580 We have the real thing along the lines with the SAFE Act.
00:42:24.140 And this is a common sense measure to enforce the law.
00:42:29.980 Only citizens should be voting in elections, period.
00:42:35.140 And this is merely enforcing the law by putting in place a proof of citizenship requirement.
00:42:41.340 But by filing in federal court and by noting in, as it goes through the bill, how aligned it is with the SAFE Act, which is proof of citizenship for registering to vote at the federal level, which passed the U.S. House, it's pretty clear what he's trying to do here.
00:42:57.100 It really is quite radical.
00:43:00.420 I want to hold you through the break.
00:43:01.880 We've got to jump.
00:43:02.760 But I guess maybe hat tip there, I guess reverse hat tip there, exposing their plans.
00:43:08.080 The enemy is revealing that they really are keen on having non-citizens vote.
00:43:12.420 Though what I'm pretty sure I was told, what, for months last year that, you know, oh, it's a fake, it's a misinformation threat that was created by the right wing to suppress apparently non-citizens from voting.
00:43:23.520 So thank you, Mark Elias, for delivering your own fact check and proving shows like The War Room correct.
00:43:29.540 We appreciate it.
00:43:30.740 Warm Posse, we'll be right back.
00:43:31.940 In the meantime, make sure you're checking out birchgold.com slash Bannon, texting Bannon to 989898, getting the latest installment of the wonderful works that Steve, Philip Patrick, and the team have all written.
00:43:43.040 We'll be right back after this short break.
00:43:45.660 More on Mark Elias.
00:43:46.580 We'll be right back.
00:44:16.580 Now he's issuing a dire warning about April 11th, a moment that could define Trump's presidency and your financial future.
00:44:24.120 His latest book, Money GPT, exposes how AI is setting the stage for financial chaos, bank runs at lightning speeds, algorithm-driven crashes, and even threats to national security.
00:44:35.600 Right now, War Room members get a free copy of Money GPT when they sign up for Strategic Intelligence.
00:44:41.920 This is Jim's flagship financial newsletter, Strategic Intelligence.
00:44:47.260 I read it.
00:44:48.280 You should read it.
00:44:49.360 Time is running out.
00:44:50.200 Go to RickardsWarRoom.com.
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00:45:00.980 Here's your host, Stephen K.
00:45:04.620 Mann.
00:45:06.360 Welcome back to the War Room.
00:45:09.160 Secretary Gray, we're going to have to bounce in a sec.
00:45:12.420 But obviously, Mark Elias, he's a busy guy.
00:45:15.020 He's been choosing to spend a lot of his time posing, resisting, whatever, President Trump.
00:45:19.200 So it's interesting.
00:45:19.960 I think that he would choose to spend time on you.
00:45:22.880 You should take it as a badge of honor.
00:45:24.840 Why now?
00:45:25.440 Are they nervous for the midterms?
00:45:26.780 Why are they doing this all in federal court?
00:45:28.740 Well, I think they're very concerned that we're winning on election integrity, winning
00:45:34.700 on documented proof of citizenship for registering to vote.
00:45:38.440 I think it's pretty clear they want to establish sort of a test case at the federal level.
00:45:43.660 If we get the SAVE Act done, we need to get that done.
00:45:47.220 Natalie, as you always point out, this do-nothing Congress needs to act.
00:45:51.000 The Senate needs to act on the SAVE Act.
00:45:52.980 They need to attach it if they can't get it done in a single piece of legislation to a
00:45:58.080 must-pass piece of legislation, and we need to bring it through.
00:46:01.500 So that's why I think he wants to sort of have a volley here in Wyoming because of how
00:46:07.300 strong our proof of citizenship requirement is and how in alignment it is with what they
00:46:14.440 are doing at the federal level.
00:46:18.520 Secretary Gray, if people want to follow you, I'm sure they're going to want to keep an eye
00:46:21.760 on this case because Mark Elias will hopefully lose.
00:46:24.500 Where can they go to do that and keep up to date with you?
00:46:28.920 You can follow me, Chuck for Wyoming, on X, also on Truth Social, Facebook as well.
00:46:36.300 Thank you for having me on, Natalie.
00:46:38.220 So excited to hear from Catherine in a moment.
00:46:40.980 It was a genuine meets here just last week up in Riverton, and she's doing great work.
00:46:45.880 There you go.
00:46:48.220 And a doorstep from the Secretary of State.
00:46:49.900 Sir, thank you for coming on.
00:46:51.240 We'll have to have you back on when there are any important updates in the case.
00:46:54.920 Thank you.
00:46:57.160 I thought it would only be fitting to have Wyoming's Catherine O'Neill-Gillihan, I think, 0.59
00:47:04.360 on the show in a wonderful hat.
00:47:07.520 Our last guest was saying he was just touring your facilities last week.
00:47:11.060 How's that for timing?
00:47:11.840 I hear you have a wonderful deal for us for the War Room Posse, who's your number one fan.
00:47:17.800 Hit us with it.
00:47:19.660 Yes, thanks so much, Natalie.
00:47:21.700 And thanks to Secretary Gray, who's doing great work for Wyoming.
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00:48:14.160 What was it?
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00:48:16.260 They had the big piece saying, you know, Americans are trying to eat more protein.
00:48:20.800 Blame MAGA.
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00:48:22.620 Eating protein is a wonderful thing, including your beef sticks.
00:48:25.240 Your hat is a perfect way to push back, too.
00:48:29.300 Can they let the audience see it?
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00:49:09.860 Well, they appreciate it.
00:49:11.580 I think the feeling is mutual.
00:49:13.040 It's a quid pro quo.
00:49:14.560 How about that?
00:49:15.120 You were using that term accurately, not in the way that it was described between President
00:49:19.480 Trump and Zelensky, however many years ago that was.
00:49:22.440 Catherine, thank you so much for joining us.
00:49:23.880 We'll have you back on soon.
00:49:25.740 Thanks so much, Natalie.
00:49:26.820 Great to see you.
00:49:28.900 Of course.
00:49:29.640 Likewise.
00:49:31.180 Just a quick note.
00:49:32.420 For all the apoplexy that you're going to see tonight about whether what's going on in
00:49:36.320 Saudi or the Qatari jet, which we can have a, should we say, as Steve would say, a partner's
00:49:41.040 discussion about that one.
00:49:43.420 Were any of these people raising any concerns about what Hunter Biden was doing with the
00:49:47.140 Chinese Communist Party or the Qataris or the Saudis or the Ukrainians, also the Russians
00:49:51.720 or the Mexicans?
00:49:53.520 I don't think so.
00:49:54.600 So just like all of your lovely coverage that you've suddenly now had your conversion therapy
00:49:59.680 where you now are willing to call out Joe Biden for belonging in a wheelchair.
00:50:03.940 Yeah, I don't really care.
00:50:05.340 Millions of people don't read your outlets.
00:50:07.120 Sorry, White House correspondent.
00:50:08.400 That's probably the funniest direct quote, actual fake news that I, even I, would support
00:50:11.880 a fact checking and maybe even some full blown censorship of because I've never heard
00:50:15.580 more BS come out of your mouth.
00:50:17.520 And that's a pretty low bar, including calling me a state propagandist.
00:50:22.560 But I digress.
00:50:25.220 We've got Mike Lindell joining us.
00:50:27.960 Mike, you got a few minutes.
00:50:28.860 Hit us with the latest, all things either Mike Lindell or MyPillow.
00:50:33.960 Well, everybody, the attacks continue.
00:50:38.020 MyPillow, by the way, this on June 2nd, will be part of the lawsuit.
00:50:43.320 This is the big law for everybody that every where they sued over 80, 80 companies and individuals
00:50:50.360 MyPillow, being one of them, and the voting machine companies.
00:50:54.500 And this one goes to trial June 2nd.
00:50:57.720 And we are the only ones that have went now all the way to jury trial.
00:51:01.360 Everybody else settled with their insurance company.
00:51:03.820 But as you know at the war room, I will never settle until we secure our election platforms.
00:51:09.700 So we really need your help right now.
00:51:12.340 MyPillow, my employees, you know, they were sued.
00:51:15.320 They did nothing.
00:51:16.220 They did nothing.
00:51:17.100 They're just an employee-owned company under attack.
00:51:20.640 We need your help, war room posse.
00:51:22.480 And the way you can help is to get these products we have that are on sale and at prices that are below wholesale.
00:51:29.940 We have a 50% off sale for the war room posse, 50% or more.
00:51:34.600 These are our Giza Dream Sheets, our flagship sheets, where it all started.
00:51:40.340 The most comfortable sheets you will ever sleep on for $49.98, any size, any color.
00:51:46.780 They're over $100 a set.
00:51:48.460 You all know that.
00:51:49.560 While they last at this price, we're doing it exclusively for the war room posse, promo code war room.
00:51:56.200 Go to the website, MyPillow.com.
00:51:58.260 You guys scroll down until you see Steve, click on them, and there you have it.
00:52:02.100 You have the 50% off crosses that you can get right now, the lowest price ever that we've ever sold them for, and made in the USA.
00:52:11.980 There you see the Giza Dream Sheets. 0.74
00:52:14.420 All these other products from the towels to the sheets to the pillows.
00:52:19.360 Pillows are well over 50% off.
00:52:21.460 The MyPillow premiums now that we've sold over $85 million.
00:52:25.760 So my employees, thank all of you at the war room posse, Natalie, and we're in this to win it.
00:52:32.580 And it's a win, win, win.
00:52:33.860 It's a win, win, win, win, win.
00:52:37.040 Although you've got to add a lot more wins nowadays.
00:52:39.240 Mike Lindell, thank you so much for joining us.
00:52:41.400 Thanks.
00:52:41.820 War room posse, thank you as always for hanging with me.
00:52:44.880 My parting thought, just imagine what today's Saudi experience would have looked like had it been Kamala Harris.
00:52:53.060 And I'm not just talking about the gaffes, but I don't think you would probably feel as proud to be an American if she had been over there.
00:52:58.780 Have a good one.
00:52:59.660 I'll see you guys.
00:53:01.600 Health isn't just a personal issue.
00:53:03.560 It's a family issue, a community issue.
00:53:06.080 We're living in unpredictable times.
00:53:08.000 Supply chains can break down.
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