Bannon's War Room - May 15, 2025


Episode 4488： Fight To Heal America's Children And The Future Generations

Topics
state visit by President Trump MAGA Institute launch & Make America Healthy Again segments
Hosted by
Steve Bannon
Mentioned
Zygbi Brzezinski Donald Trump Jimmy Carter Bobby Kennedy Henry Kissinger American Reagan Tony Lyons Nixon Ed Luce Ayatollah Khomeini Nicole Shanahan Charlie Kirk Eric Bolling Stephen K. Band John Paul II Leonid Brezhnev Sacred Human Mike Allen Zbig Richard Allen and 39 more
Episode 4486： Mass Momentum Behind Habeas Corpus Episode 4492： Nationalism Continues To Conquer In Romania And Across The Globe

Episode Stats


Length

55 minutes

Words per minute

149.18

Word count

8,262

Sentence count

666

Harmful content

Misogyny

5

sentences flagged

Toxicity

4

sentences flagged

Hate speech

54

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Stephen K. Broun and Ed Luce join me in the War Room to talk about President Trump's trip to the Middle East, the birthright citizenship debate, the Iran deal, and much, much more.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
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00:03:32.000 the name Trump attached to it, because, you know, if you say Trump did this, the instant
00:03:36.540 reaction is it must be a terrible idea.
00:03:39.080 And so, you know, folks like me or journalists need to look at the issues one by one and
00:03:45.320 decide, is that in the country's interest or not?
00:03:50.540 This is the primal scream of a dying regime.
00:03:55.440 Pray for our enemies, because we're going medieval on these people.
00:03:59.360 I got a free shot at all these networks lying about the people.
00:04:05.000 The people have had a belly full of it.
00:04:06.980 I know you don't like hearing that.
00:04:08.400 I know you try to do everything in the world to stop that, but you're not going to stop
00:04:10.820 it.
00:04:11.040 It's going to happen.
00:04:12.300 And where do people like that go to share the big line?
00:04:15.700 Mega Media.
00:04:17.040 I wish in my soul, I wish that any of these people had a conscience.
00:04:22.460 Ask yourself, what is my task and what is my purpose?
00:04:25.600 If that answer is to save my country, this country will be saved.
00:04:32.640 War Room.
00:04:33.480 Here's your host, Stephen K.
00:04:35.560 Band.
00:04:40.360 Thursday, 15 May, in the year of our Lord, 2025.
00:04:44.180 We're going to get an update, hopefully momentarily, on the arguments on the birthright citizenship.
00:04:50.940 Tony Lyons is going to join us later in this hour.
00:04:53.820 Remember, he held a dinner and a reception last night for the Make America Healthy and
00:04:58.440 Bobby Kennedy, all that will get totally up to date on the Make America Healthy again.
00:05:02.580 What's going on there?
00:05:05.400 Yes, is hell freezing over?
00:05:07.980 I don't know.
00:05:09.800 But two landmark things today.
00:05:12.140 Mike Allen's Axios lead story this morning is about how Trump is doing things that nobody
00:05:18.280 else could do and, you know, change in the Middle East.
00:05:20.780 And it was actually laudatory in depth.
00:05:24.060 I got it up on Getter.
00:05:25.200 I put it up, I think, at dawn this morning.
00:05:27.400 Denver will push it out for you and Grace will push it out for you.
00:05:29.780 And then the Langley Bugle, the spokesmodel for the CIA, David Ignatius, praising Donald Trump.
00:05:41.660 So I think the earth stood still, you know, momentarily this morning or morning's out.
00:05:46.440 But what I want to do is we'll talk later about what President Trump's accomplishing.
00:05:50.100 He's with MBZ.
00:05:52.020 As you know, followers of the show, I think that Mohammed bin Zayed is the key member of
00:05:58.720 not just the Emiratis, the Gulf Emirates and all that, but in the Middle East.
00:06:03.600 He's the go-to, very straightforward guy, strategic thinker, just incredible.
00:06:09.440 And President Trump is with him today.
00:06:12.100 Left Qatar yesterday.
00:06:13.440 And a lot of folks, particularly my discussion with Matt Gaetz yesterday about Qatar, we'll
00:06:18.380 get more into that.
00:06:20.080 It's nothing to schluff off.
00:06:21.240 Look, Qatar, as folks know, I'm not a fan of Qatar.
00:06:24.900 They basically not rolled us, but they played hardball about signing any tariff financing
00:06:32.040 memorandum.
00:06:33.720 They still have so much to answer for.
00:06:35.940 And I hope that people are vetting this, the Muslim Brotherhood and the financing of the 0.99
00:06:41.080 Muslim Brotherhood and everything.
00:06:42.440 But breaking news, you know, President Trump's talking about a nuclear deal he could announce
00:06:45.660 here momentarily, all types of things coming to the Middle East.
00:06:48.940 But I want to bring an extraordinary book.
00:06:50.980 I want to go back to the beginning and why this is so important, why Trump's trip is
00:06:56.440 so important and why guys like Ignatius and Mike Allen's actors are saying, hey, he's
00:07:00.280 doing things in the Middle East and never been done.
00:07:02.160 I want to go back to the beginning.
00:07:04.060 Ed Luce joins us, editor and columnist at the Financial Times at London.
00:07:08.780 Ed, you've written this book, which is stunning.
00:07:12.840 And I recommend it to people to put your politics aside if you want to see how the system works
00:07:19.440 and how it kind of worked at the beginning of the rise of really the National Security
00:07:23.720 Council and great power of politics.
00:07:27.400 This new and I think the only definitive biography on Dr. Brzezinski is out.
00:07:34.300 Ed, I want to go back because the one of the court and we're huge fans of Brzezinski over
00:07:39.800 Kissinger for a long time.
00:07:42.680 We had a guy, Patrick Wood, who passed away a couple of years ago, and he was this theoretician
00:07:46.660 about this concept called technocracy.
00:07:49.060 And he would always go back to one of Brzezinski's books, I think written in the 70s, after he,
00:07:55.580 I think it was right after he became a National Security Advisor or just right before, either
00:07:59.520 right before or right after, we talked about the drive of the future to a technocratic super
00:08:04.720 state, saying that this is what the Soviet Union could come to.
00:08:08.120 But this, the National Security Council, and particularly these two Shakespearean figures,
00:08:14.700 a German, Henry Kissinger, and a Pole, Zygbi Brzezinski.
00:08:19.120 Walk us back.
00:08:19.980 Can you take us back?
00:08:20.880 Because the book is so amazing.
00:08:22.340 And it almost reads like a drama for a huge part of it in the interaction of these two people.
00:08:28.140 Walk me through, like, National Security Council, how to become so important.
00:08:32.380 What was Kissinger's role, what was Brzezinski's role, and why did they hate each other?
00:08:38.780 Well, first of all, thanks, Steve, for having me on and for being so enthusiastic about this
00:08:45.000 book.
00:08:45.400 It's really great.
00:08:48.900 Zygbi, you know, as most people called him, and Kissinger were legendary rivals, lifelong
00:08:56.480 rivals.
00:08:57.000 I mean, and, you know, we're talking from 1938, when each of them turned up on North 0.93
00:09:02.840 America's shores, right up till 2017, when Brzezinski died.
00:09:08.160 That's a long, pretty cinematic rivalry.
00:09:11.200 And they sort of reached the peak that a foreign-born strategist can reach in the United States, which
00:09:19.720 is they were, you know, respectively, for Nixon, Kissinger was his grand strategist, and for
00:09:26.300 Jimmy Carter, Brzezinski was his grand strategist.
00:09:30.520 And that was to head the National Security Council.
00:09:33.680 The National Security Council was really a sort of imperial creation by Harry Truman.
00:09:40.480 After the Second World War, 1947, he sets up the National Security Council inside the White 0.64
00:09:47.880 House to try and control, initially, the CIA, this new but massively growing intelligence
00:09:56.240 bureaucracy, but also the sprawling sort of and rapidly growing size of the Army, the Navy,
00:10:05.240 the Air Force, these sort of separate services, which were becoming kind of imperial in their
00:10:10.480 size, the Pentagon, and to have some control over it from the White House.
00:10:16.940 And so that was the initial idea with the National Security Council.
00:10:20.340 And it was WASPs, you know, the grandees, you know, of WASPs, of Georgetown, you know, of Yale,
00:10:30.660 Skull and Bone Society, etc.
00:10:32.960 People who you might, in another context, call English American, but because of the American
00:10:38.600 story, that hyphenation wasn't used.
00:10:43.720 Very suspicious of these immigrants. 1.00
00:10:46.200 Kissinger from Germany, Brzezinski from Poland.
00:10:48.380 But they managed these two, I guess, scholar, scholar, scholar politicians from Harvard, from
00:10:57.720 Colombia, to break into politics.
00:11:00.800 And they really did change the way America managed, managed foreign affairs and geopolitics.
00:11:08.140 They were hugely, hugely influential figures.
00:11:10.840 And I won't say enemies with each other, Kissinger and Brzezinski, but frenemies.
00:11:18.180 I mean, they were deep rivals.
00:11:19.760 And they had a very different idea of how to tackle the Soviet Union during the Cold War.
00:11:25.220 Very different strategies.
00:11:28.900 That's, I want to get to that now.
00:11:30.320 By the way, under Kennedy was like Mack Bundy.
00:11:32.600 This became from an advisory, really, to running the deal.
00:11:36.900 That was the change.
00:11:38.180 And we got Kissinger.
00:11:40.040 And then Brzezinski.
00:11:41.720 I mean, Brzezinski's a more towering figure, I think, of the Carter administration than Carter
00:11:45.080 himself.
00:11:45.980 But go through.
00:11:46.600 We got a couple minutes to this block.
00:11:47.780 I want to hold you to the next.
00:11:49.780 Kissinger's, and this is what, the Thucydides trap is just an update of what he felt back at
00:11:54.500 the time.
00:11:55.440 Kissinger always believed America was in decline, correct?
00:11:59.000 And had to fight a defensive.
00:12:01.040 That's why all of his things were kind of kowtowing or trying to work with the Soviet Union.
00:12:06.180 Brzezinski had a very different take on things, did he not, sir?
00:12:10.540 A very different take.
00:12:11.940 Kissinger saw the Soviet Union as just, it's going to be around forever.
00:12:15.820 It's a permanent feature of the landscape.
00:12:18.580 And our job was to accommodate to it.
00:12:21.200 Our job, the West America, was to accommodate and find some way of living together.
00:12:27.180 And that was called détente, French word, you know, meaning relaxation.
00:12:30.980 Brzezinski, because he was from Poland and had a very different perspective of, he saw
00:12:37.760 it as a Russian empire, not dressed up in Marxist clothing, but he saw it as a Russian
00:12:42.860 empire.
00:12:43.260 And he saw it as run by a lot of very old men.
00:12:46.680 You know, he calls that he called that a gerontocracy, but he had this phrase reverse
00:12:52.340 natural selection, meaning you only got promoted if you if you weren't innovative, if you didn't
00:12:58.620 have any creative ideas.
00:13:00.560 And therefore, it was just going to collapse under its own weight.
00:13:02.980 And we have to find a way of helping it collapse.
00:13:06.200 And that's what he did.
00:13:07.920 And Reaganism, by the way, was really a continuation of what Carter, well, what Brzezinski, really
00:13:15.900 arm twisted Carter into doing in the last two years.
00:13:19.020 This is a point, the taking down of the evil, the taking down of the evil empire, the we
00:13:24.480 win.
00:13:25.320 Remember the apocryphal story when Richard V. Allen was interviewing and he got stumbled
00:13:30.260 and he said, Mr. President, I've been talking.
00:13:33.580 You haven't.
00:13:34.180 What are your thoughts?
00:13:35.680 And he said, Dick, we win, they lose.
00:13:39.460 That was kind of Brzezinski.
00:13:40.680 I want to get into we're going to take a short commercial break here.
00:13:44.060 When we return, I want to get into the whole how did Jimmy Carter, who kind of ran this
00:13:48.820 as agrarian populist, anti-imperial presidency, anti-Nixon, anti-really establishment, democratic
00:13:56.680 establishment and the American establishment, and was not someone that had big ideas on foreign
00:14:03.460 policy had he picked this guy and how this guy really laid the foundational elements that
00:14:08.960 then President Trump, President Reagan could come in and take down the evil empire.
00:14:13.700 Johnny Kahn's going to take us out with American Heart.
00:14:16.900 Ed Luce is our guest.
00:14:19.220 This book, Put Your Politics Aside.
00:14:21.900 If you want to understand the National Security Council and really the beginning of what it
00:14:27.760 is that President Trump's had to wrestle with, this is the book to get.
00:14:31.380 You will learn a lot about American history, particularly in that critical decade of the
00:14:35.740 1970s.
00:14:36.740 President Trump's in the Middle East.
00:14:38.960 When that came to the forefront of American thinking was the Arab all embargo, all of it 1.00
00:14:45.560 from the 1970s.
00:14:47.600 Short commercial break and return to the war room.
00:14:49.520 Just a moment.
00:14:51.960 I got American faith in America's heart.
00:14:59.840 This July, there is a global summit of BRICS nations in Rio de Janeiro, the block of emerging
00:15:05.780 superpowers, including China, Russia, India and Persia, are meeting with the goal of displacing 0.96
00:15:12.540 the United States dollar as the global currency.
00:15:15.160 They're calling this the Rio reset as BRICS nations push forward with their plans.
00:15:21.280 Global demand for U.S.
00:15:22.380 dollars will decrease, bringing down the value of the dollar in your savings.
00:15:26.760 While this transition won't not happen overnight.
00:15:30.260 But trust me, it's going to start in Rio.
00:15:33.420 The Rio reset in July marks a pivotal moment when BRICS objectives move decisively from a theoretical
00:15:40.080 possibility towards an inevitable reality.
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00:16:28.360 Here's your host, Stephen K.
00:16:30.500 The book is big.
00:16:36.800 It is Mika Brzezinski's father before Warren, but you can't put it down.
00:16:41.620 It reads like a Shakespearean drama.
00:16:43.800 So, Ed Luce, here's the question.
00:16:45.640 In 1976, Jimmy Carter's elected as an agrarian, populist, anti-Richard Nixon.
00:16:53.420 It's all about Nixon.
00:16:54.720 Of course, Ford's running, but it's really about Nixon.
00:16:56.320 Uh, Ford has embraced the Henry Kissinger American decline.
00:17:02.400 We have to have detente.
00:17:04.040 We have to, you know, have all these nuclear agreements.
00:17:07.100 We have to have all this.
00:17:08.140 In, in 1989, the Berlin Wall falls, right?
00:17:16.220 My math, that's 12 years after Carter took office.
00:17:20.580 One of the foundational elements of President Trump's taking down the evil empire is what
00:17:26.640 went on 76 to 80 before he arrived.
00:17:30.060 First off, how did Carter pick a guy like Brzezinski?
00:17:34.360 And how did he, because he was kind of an anti-war, although a Navy nuclear officer, kind of an
00:17:38.880 anti-war guy, how did he have a guy who basically said, we got to get focused on the great power
00:17:45.060 of politics and we have to basically take down the Soviet Union, sir?
00:17:51.460 Yeah, I mean, it's a great question because you can't, it's hard to think of two more
00:17:55.900 unalike characters than Jimmy Carter.
00:17:58.180 So this peanut farmer, single term governor from, from Georgia and Brzezinski, this, you
00:18:06.000 know, quite hard-nosed, fluent Russian speaking, fluent Polish speaking as well, German speaking,
00:18:13.180 Machiavellian, I mean, you know, a hard-nosed foreign policy figure who was not from the establishment.
00:18:19.940 I mean, the WASPs rejected him.
00:18:21.740 And when Carter appointed Brzezinski, everybody, all these sort of grand figures, like some of
00:18:28.160 your, some of your viewers and listeners might recognize names like Dean Acheson and Avril
00:18:33.500 Harriman and John McCloy, people like that, all urged Carter not to appoint him.
00:18:40.760 Carter does appoint him.
00:18:42.860 And because of the sort of harsh ways of the world, Carter very slowly comes around to Brzezinski's
00:18:49.860 way of thinking, which is, look, we've got to be, we've got to take the fight back to,
00:18:55.620 for American values and America's position in the world. Remember, the Vietnam War is over.
00:19:02.200 We've got to, we've got to end the pessimism of the Kissinger, Nixon, Ford era and make the case
00:19:09.480 that we are actually, we're leading the world in technology. It's not the Soviets, you know,
00:19:14.480 they, they, they'd launched Sputnik, the satellite in, in the 1950s. And it caused a real panic in
00:19:21.060 America that, that we were losing the Cold War, that America, that the Soviets were over overtaking
00:19:27.540 us. And, and that we therefore had to just find ways of accommodating ourselves to this massive
00:19:35.400 rising technological superpower. And Brzezinski just didn't accept that. And you wrote, you, Steve,
00:19:42.640 you referred at the beginning to this book, he wrote about the technotronic era. He was going
00:19:48.860 completely against the grain. He wrote that in 1971. He was going completely against the grain by
00:19:53.860 saying, no, no, no, no, the Soviet Union is a museum to the industrial age. They're not making
00:19:59.940 computers. You know, they're not, they're falling more and more behind us as time goes on. And so
00:20:08.900 Carter gradually came around to Brzezinski's way of looking at the world, restored all the defense
00:20:16.280 spending that had been cut in the previous, it had been cut by 40%, the American defense budget in the
00:20:22.820 previous decade, restored that had a new sort of generation of nuclear weapons. And that helped
00:20:30.060 sort of bankrupt the Soviet Union, because it had to, it struggled to keep up. And then here's the
00:20:35.400 Machiavellian bit. You know, Brzezinski did, I think, play a quite clever role in luring the Soviets into 0.95
00:20:43.800 invading Afghanistan, to giving them their Vietnam, their quagmire. And that's what happened. And that 0.99
00:20:53.660 helped bleed the Soviet Union to death. And this is what Reagan inherited. And he didn't really change 0.75
00:20:58.700 anything. You know, Reaganism was in place when Carter left office, and Reagan just carried on with
00:21:06.640 it. Talk to me about also the connection with the Pope, because Reagan comes in, Thatcher's in, President
00:21:15.380 Reagan said, we win, they lose, kind of accelerates it, right? But the strategy, first off, how did he lure him
00:21:21.760 into Afghanistan, Machiavellian, and to his relationship with Pope John Paul II?
00:21:28.800 So the way he did it, you know, I'm not saying he got them to invade. I mean, they're very sort of mentally
00:21:35.660 unstable, well, aging, senile Soviet leader, Leonid Brezhnev, who was sort of drunk half the time.
00:21:44.520 It was his decision to invade Afghanistan. But he was paranoid that Afghanistan would fall into
00:21:50.980 America's camp. And Brzezinski kept sort of stoking that paranoia. They had a leader called Amin,
00:21:59.400 who'd studied at Colombia when Brzezinski was teaching at Colombia. So it didn't take much to
00:22:04.500 stimulate that paranoia. And they didn't, you know, they saw it, the south of the Soviet Union,
00:22:11.880 they had a lot of Muslim republics, like Tajikistan, Kazakhstan, they feared that there was going to be 1.00
00:22:19.540 an uprising in their soft underbelly, that they thought of as the southern Soviet Union,
00:22:25.500 the border of Afghanistan. And so Brzezinski just, like, heightened that paranoia.
00:22:30.960 And that helped convince this drunken Brezhnev to invade, and a really fatal error on his part.
00:22:39.900 The Pope is a fascinating thing, because the Pope was from Poland as well. And in fact,
00:22:44.560 Brzezinski knew the Pope, Pope John Paul II, that is, who was elected in 1978, first non-Italian to
00:22:53.980 become the Vicar of Christ, as they say, in 453 years. Quite a coincidence that you have this
00:23:03.360 Polish-speaking Pope all of a sudden, and a Polish-speaking grand strategist in Washington.
00:23:09.160 And Brzezinski had he, for Pope, put it on his White House phone, because he called him so much.
00:23:15.140 And they worked together a lot to try and push this soft power of, you know, freedom of speech,
00:23:24.320 freedom of movement, freedom of religion, to just try and generate more unrest and opposition
00:23:31.580 inside the Iron Curtain, the other side of the Iron Curtain, against communist rule. And the Soviets did 0.92
00:23:38.880 come very close to invading Poland. They had 18 divisions lined up on the Polish border, two of
00:23:47.880 them from Germany, by the way. So it's kind of a rather unhappy replay of history to have Poland 1.00
00:23:55.420 invaded by Russia and Germany. Yet again, that's how the Second World War began. But it didn't invade. 0.76
00:24:02.360 And the reason why it didn't invade was because the Pope and Brzezinski really helped persuade
00:24:08.360 Moscow that Poland would be like a porcupine. It just would be indigestible. And so, I mean, 1.00
00:24:15.540 I don't think history thanks you for things that didn't happen. But this was quite a big thing that
00:24:20.640 didn't happen. And the Pope and Brzezinski, you know, take the medals there.
00:24:26.860 Let's talk about something that did happen. As a junior officer, I served at sea during Carter's
00:24:32.680 term and then in the Pentagon during Reagan's. But as a junior officer, I was on that one of those
00:24:38.400 carrier battle groups, one on Camel Station and Gonzo Station, North Arabian Sea, because of the
00:24:44.080 Iranian or as we call it here, the Persian hostage crisis. That's probably what Carter's known most
00:24:51.520 for was the failure of that. Walk me through Brzezinski's role in what turned out to be a
00:24:56.360 catastrophe for Jimmy Carter, the nation and Carter's presidency. I did interview Carter for
00:25:03.280 this book, obviously before he died. And he said, look, the worst advice he got from Brzezinski was
00:25:09.800 about Iran. So the Shah of Iran had been this close ally of America for decades. And there was this
00:25:19.500 uprising going on led by the Mullahs, led by the mosques and the radical, radical Muslim sections of 0.84
00:25:27.740 the population. Brzezinski wanted the Shah to crack down on them. You know, he wanted blood in the
00:25:34.020 streets, essentially. And the State Department and led by its ambassador, William Sullivan,
00:25:40.380 thought that Ayatollah Khomeini, who was in exile in Paris, he thought that the Mullahs were actually
00:25:50.540 moderates, should be brought into government in Iran, and that Khomeini, Ayatollah Khomeini,
00:25:57.480 was actually a Gandhi-like figure, meaning a sort of really peaceful, non-violent, which was definitely
00:26:04.920 a very bad misreading. So Carter was conflicted by really different advice. And then the hostage
00:26:11.260 crisis was triggered after the Shah had fled into exile. It turned out for years he'd had cancer,
00:26:18.780 been suffering from cancer, lymphoma. And Carter was persuaded very reluctantly to accept him into
00:26:27.900 America because this was the only place he could be treated medically for his—and it wasn't true. He
00:26:33.900 could have been treated in many places. And Brzezinski should have got the Shah to renounce the peacock 0.99
00:26:41.800 throne of Iran, of Persia, the ancient peacock throne, as a condition of being admitted into 0.54
00:26:49.100 America. But he didn't. And that stoked Iranian paranoia that America was going to install him back 0.74
00:26:57.140 on the throne, and that this was the first move, admitting—giving him asylum in America. And so they
00:27:02.840 stormed the embassy. And that 444-day hostage-taking crisis began. And that really did
00:27:10.740 finish Carter off against Reagan. I mean, it was lethal every night on, you know, Ted Koppel and
00:27:18.740 Walter Cronkite. They had this clock, and it just hung over Carter like a sort of bad nightmare,
00:27:25.440 and he couldn't get rid of it. Ed, we've got to bounce. Where do they get—where do people get the book? Where do they go to see all the reviews, your book tour,
00:27:33.340 all of that? Oh gosh, I'm going to lots of different places, having really the time of my life. But I think you can get the book in your local bookstore, or Amazon, or wherever. But Steve, I'm really grateful for you having me on.
00:27:47.340 Yeah. No, I love it. In fact, we want all of our audience—we're going to send you to where the book tour is going to be—we want you to show up with a
00:27:55.240 red MAGA ball cap. In fact, better, Trump 28. We're going to get you the Trump 28 ball cap. Ed Luce, thank you very much for writing the book. It's amazing. It's a must-read. Thank you, sir.
00:28:05.440 The irony that President Trump is talking about a nuclear deal with the Persians. We go all the way back to the Iranian or Persian hostage crisis. Short break. Make America healthy again next in The War Room.
00:28:26.140 What if he had the brightest mind in The War Room, delivering critical financial research every month?
00:28:33.160 Steve Bannon here. War Room listeners know Jim Rickards. I love this guy. He's our wise man. A former CIA,
00:28:39.580 Pentagon, and White House advisor with an unmatched grasp of geopolitics and capital markets. Jim
00:28:45.240 predicted Trump's Electoral College victory exactly 312 to 226, down to the actual number itself. Now he's
00:28:55.000 issuing a dire warning about April 11th, a moment that could define Trump's presidency in your financial
00:29:01.040 future. His latest book, Money GPT, exposes how AI is setting the stage for financial chaos, bank runs at
00:29:08.880 lightning speeds, algorithm-driven crashes, and even threats to national security. Right now, War Room members
00:29:14.920 get a free copy of Money GPT when they sign up for Strategic Intelligence. This is Jim's flagship financial
00:29:22.400 newsletter, Strategic Intelligence. I read it. You should read it. Time is running out. Go to
00:29:28.400 RickardsWarRoom.com. That's all one word, Rickards War Room. Rickards with an S. Go now and claim your free
00:29:35.180 book. That's RickardsWarRoom.com. Do it today.
00:29:38.900 The witness will suspend. The committee will come to order. Capitol Police are asked to remove the
00:29:55.500 individuals from the hearing room. Members of the audience are reminded disruptions will not be
00:30:03.160 permitted while the committee conducts its business. Capitol Police are asked to remove the individuals from the hearing room.
00:30:24.160 The WILLIAMS of melading the officers. implemented I say 24 and so the
00:30:34.920 individuals from the così men in the 2020
00:30:37.240 class. OKAY. That was bobby canady yesterday. By the way, a programming note.
00:30:43.160 By the way, a programming note, our captain is going to join us tomorrow
00:30:51.180 and give a counter. 0.89
00:30:53.400 He's got a different view of Zbig and Carter.
00:30:58.600 So Captain Fennell will be on tomorrow.
00:31:00.000 We're going to try to work that out.
00:31:01.640 Tony Lyons, if you can cut your phone off, I'll introduce you as a guest.
00:31:05.960 Get Tony Lyons in here.
00:31:07.300 Talk about a disruptor.
00:31:08.320 Yesterday, Bobby Kennedy, it's like a fistfight, and a guy can't go to a hearing.
00:31:15.440 And these are all lefties.
00:31:17.080 That was the Ben and Jerry CEO.
00:31:18.920 I mean, why does the left hate Bobby Kennedy so much when he's standing for Make America?
00:31:25.100 I mean, it's kind of, I love it because it's something we've worked on for years.
00:31:29.000 But he's been embraced by the Make America Great Again populist nationalist movement.
00:31:34.500 People that were with him for years are now, he can't even have a congressional hearing.
00:31:40.200 I mean, do you see the cop in there?
00:31:41.420 The cop came in hard and threw these people out.
00:31:44.140 Why is the left so enraged about Bobby Kennedy?
00:31:47.020 You know, they obviously have Trump derangement syndrome.
00:31:50.200 They can't get past it.
00:31:51.760 It's just everything just because he's a partner with Trump.
00:31:54.660 Right.
00:31:55.240 So these issues are issues that should not be partisan issues.
00:31:59.580 You know, everybody in America ought to want their children to be happy again, to be happy, to be healthy.
00:32:05.940 Why would you not want healthy children?
00:32:08.300 So half of our children now have a chronic disease.
00:32:12.000 You know, that's not good enough.
00:32:13.660 We can do better.
00:32:14.580 50% of American children.
00:32:17.260 So all around the world, children are healthier.
00:32:20.280 America spends three times the amount of money on health care, on pharma, on public health than any other of the 30 industrialized countries in the world.
00:32:33.360 And yet our health outcomes are just an absolute disaster.
00:32:37.160 We should be ashamed of that.
00:32:38.620 I mean, you judge a country by the way they treat their children.
00:32:42.040 And we are treating our children like we do not care if they live or die.
00:32:47.260 And Bobby Kennedy, who could have done anything else with his life, he had no reason.
00:32:52.120 He's not doing this for money, not for power, not for fame.
00:32:55.960 He's doing this to help American children, to help all of us, to help our families, and to make this country healthy again so we can compete with other countries.
00:33:06.200 Okay, in the 1950s and the 1960s, America, at the peak of its power, post-war power, kids were healthy, super healthy.
00:33:16.460 There were videos then of kids in high schools doing 20, 30 pull-ups, pumping out push-ups.
00:33:22.580 American children now, they're obese, they have diabetes, they have autism, they have all kinds of issues.
00:33:29.400 And these are not normal.
00:33:31.300 These are not genetic issues.
00:33:33.460 These are toxic issues.
00:33:35.180 These are big companies, big food, big ag, big pharma, big pesticide companies.
00:33:40.380 They are poisoning American children. 0.94
00:33:42.700 From the 1970s, when you have a healthy population, roughly, and all these kids running around, to the baby boom, to 2025, walk me through.
00:33:53.960 How did we get to from virtually, I don't know, 1% or 2% of chronic diseases to 50%?
00:34:02.100 How did that happen, and why did it happen?
00:34:04.640 They were doctors back then who had never seen a child with diabetes, who'd never seen a child with autism.
00:34:11.460 They didn't know what autism was.
00:34:13.300 They didn't know what any of these childhood illnesses.
00:34:16.300 So every child now, it seems, in high schools all across America, they have allergies to all kinds of things.
00:34:22.800 These kids have been poisoned.
00:34:24.320 This is a crime against humanity, and Bobby Kennedy has said that he prayed to God for 20 years to have the opportunity to fight back, to rescue these children, to rescue the future of the country.
00:34:38.400 And he said, God bless Donald Trump for allowing me to do this.
00:34:42.820 So we've had politicians for the last 20 years saying some of these things, saying them time after time, but getting absolutely nothing done.
00:34:51.260 And we've had grassroots people working around the clock to try to win these battles.
00:34:56.740 But Bobby Kennedy has achieved more in 100 days under Donald Trump than anybody's been able to achieve in the last 20 years.
00:35:05.260 Walk me through that specifically.
00:35:06.840 What has been achieved in the first 100 days that's greater than what's been achieved in the last 20 years?
00:35:12.780 The other day, Bobby came out and called out Bernie Sanders by name in the Roosevelt Room right next to the Oval Office when they signed the executive order on prescription drug pricing.
00:35:25.320 But walk me through, in the first 100 days, why Trump-Kennedy have done more than the last 20, 25 years.
00:35:34.560 Because Donald Trump and Bobby Kennedy are not afraid of these companies.
00:35:39.880 They're fighting the corruption.
00:35:41.340 So, you know, there are all these concepts.
00:35:43.680 Like there's this concept called generally recognized as safe, grass, so that companies could self-certify their own products and their own toxins that they're adding into those products as safe without any government regulation at all.
00:35:59.340 So this isn't a regulation versus free market question for Bobby Kennedy.
00:36:05.000 He said time after time that he believes the free market will do a much better job than the government has done because the government agencies have been absolutely corrupted and they've been co-opted by these companies.
00:36:19.140 So when you say these companies, you mean big pharma and big medicine, big pharma, big medicine, big ag, big food.
00:36:25.720 So, you know, they – so Bobby now has taken the petroleum-based food colorings.
00:36:34.300 He's banned them.
00:36:35.900 So these are food colorings that cause ADD and ADHD and probably contribute to autism.
00:36:43.440 And so he's taken them out.
00:36:44.880 Slow down, slow down, slow down. 0.53
00:36:46.200 So the counter every night – and this is where you can see an apostate – they hate Bobby Kennedy actually I think more than they hate Trump.
00:36:58.040 If you watch MSNBC and CNN, every night they have at least a segment on Bobby Kennedy and the pure hatred it comes through.
00:37:05.200 And here's what they're saying. 0.90
00:37:06.580 Everything you're saying about Bobby Kennedy, they're saying it's all junk science. 0.97
00:37:11.000 It's all psychotherapy. 0.88
00:37:12.520 It has no basis in science.
00:37:14.700 What he's doing – even on the food colorings, he has no backup to that.
00:37:17.940 What he's doing on autism and saying that he wants to do research in vaccines because he said, hey, no offense, the thing just popped up after he started giving all these vaccines.
00:37:26.980 You never had this in the history of America.
00:37:29.200 And it's just not better diagnostics.
00:37:31.520 That's not the thing.
00:37:33.580 Why did they hate him?
00:37:35.440 And is there any justification at all or backup that Bobby Kennedy is going off of pseudoscience?
00:37:43.200 Yeah, so that's a – it's a bunch of different questions there.
00:37:46.020 But, you know, so the idea that you can read about in the New York Times day after day is that Bobby Kennedy is dangerous.
00:37:52.980 So the question is, what is he a danger to?
00:37:56.460 Who is he a danger to?
00:37:57.840 So he's not a danger to any of us.
00:38:00.260 He's not a danger to moms across America.
00:38:03.260 He's not a danger to children.
00:38:05.760 He's a danger to a corrupt system that has poisoned our children.
00:38:10.320 And so those people want to say that science is all settled, that we've figured out everything, right?
00:38:16.060 But if you're a real scientist and any real doctor or scientist knows that the science is never settled, that anybody who went to medical school 20 years ago knows that half the things they were taught are proven to be false.
00:38:29.260 So if you're really looking at science, you question everything.
00:38:34.220 You're willing to read everything, to listen to everything because we have these skyrocketing chronic diseases.
00:38:40.520 And the science that we have that we're relying on is failing.
00:38:44.560 And we're doing a worse job, like I said before, than any country on the planet spending so much more money.
00:38:51.300 So we need real science, and Bobby Kennedy believes in real science.
00:38:55.520 How can we spend so much money and have unhealthier kids? 0.88
00:38:58.880 How does that work?
00:39:00.120 I'll tell you exactly how it works because this is a corrupt system.
00:39:03.600 So you have these big companies hiring lobbyists who go in and basically bribe politicians into making decisions that no rational person would make and then getting people to write stories about it and cover it on the news that anybody who challenges them is anti-science.
00:39:23.540 And so that's just not the way science works.
00:39:26.420 We need people who really are willing to look at it.
00:39:29.700 So we're told, for example, that the science on autism is settled.
00:39:35.100 You think about that for a second.
00:39:36.880 Nobody can give a definition of what autism is.
00:39:40.920 There's no definition for it.
00:39:42.160 There's no blood test for it.
00:39:43.620 There's no way really to determine other than observation, which is, you know, sketchy at best.
00:39:49.780 And then when they say, well, do vaccines cause autism?
00:39:53.320 You can't define a vaccine.
00:39:55.200 What's a vaccine?
00:39:55.860 So there have been five changes in the last decade to the definition of a vaccine.
00:40:01.420 So you're saying that something that you can't define causes something else that you can't define.
00:40:07.260 So that's a question that's not even logical.
00:40:09.700 You can look at the package inserts for a dozen vaccines and you will get symptoms that go into an autism diagnosis.
00:40:17.260 So the science is not settled, not on vaccines, not on drugs, not on food. 0.67
00:40:23.580 These companies are, you know, bloodsuckers on the American public.
00:40:28.720 And they are doing these things despite real science, despite real public health, and despite any interest in the impact that their actions have on American children.
00:40:40.820 You know, kind of the fixes in, because as you know, we monitor CNN and MSNBC 24 hours a day.
00:40:46.320 If you watch MSNBC, every commercial break, it's two or three drug.
00:40:51.420 And I sit there and go, what are these diseases?
00:40:53.760 I mean, the things blow your head up, but they are literally driven by commercials from the big drug companies.
00:41:02.660 Every break, they have at least one, probably two on these drugs.
00:41:07.940 How do we get to that situation where they're now the sponsors of the left?
00:41:11.300 Yeah, if you took drug company advertising out of media, you might get real investigative journalism once again.
00:41:20.800 You think it's blocked it?
00:41:22.180 What's that?
00:41:22.580 You think the big money has blocked it?
00:41:24.640 I think the big money has blocked it 100% that we are not investigating any of these problems.
00:41:31.200 So when you say, you know, toxic food dyes, Bobby comes out and he bans these dyes, right?
00:41:36.880 And the left then comes out with all these stories that he's dangerous, that he's doing something that's going to hurt children.
00:41:42.920 So, you know, you think about that for a second.
00:41:46.040 Are they seriously going to tell us that with all of these scientific studies showing that you can get ADHD from toxic food dyes,
00:41:53.440 that any rational person would say that he's done something bad?
00:41:57.040 These are, you know, toxins that cause ADHD.
00:42:00.600 Then the big pharma companies, you know, so they're addictive too.
00:42:04.080 So, so you've got the colorings, you've got the sugar and you're addicting children to these toxins and then they get ADHD and then you drug them for it.
00:42:13.340 So you drug millions and millions of children with no way to get them off drugs, no plan.
00:42:20.300 So the answer is getting people off these things, getting the corruption out of Hollywood, getting the corruption out of Washington.
00:42:28.540 What do you mean the corruption out of Hollywood?
00:42:29.620 I mean that every story is backing up this system like it used to be with smoking, right?
00:42:37.920 That you would see movie stars, you know, smoking all the cool stars smoked.
00:42:43.620 So you would think, oh, well, I want to be like Clark Gable, right?
00:42:46.780 So, and the same kind of thing is true with, with Coca-Cola, with, you know, toxic foods of all kinds.
00:42:53.480 Hang on one second.
00:42:54.540 Yeah, that's in the SNAP bill.
00:42:55.720 I think Coca-Cola makes $10 billion a year.
00:42:57.740 It's part of like $10 billion in the SNAP bill.
00:42:59.960 Yeah, why on earth would you allow people to use the SNAP program to buy sodas?
00:43:05.300 It's the worst thing in the world.
00:43:06.340 Is there any nutritious value to that?
00:43:07.640 Because you've got to have something to wash the Doritos down with, okay?
00:43:10.520 Short commercial break.
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00:43:37.760 Short break.
00:43:38.580 Tony Lyons is in the house.
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00:45:04.280 Here's your host, Stephen K. Mann.
00:45:06.660 Okay, we're going to have a full screen here.
00:45:11.080 There's an event.
00:45:12.380 There's a state.
00:45:13.100 There we go right there.
00:45:14.000 There's a state visit by President Trump.
00:45:15.860 We told you earlier today.
00:45:16.760 I'll break this all down at 5 o'clock, and we'll break down the Supreme Court on the 14th Amendment.
00:45:23.860 Keep that shot right there.
00:45:25.420 That is one of the main reception halls in Abu Dhabi.
00:45:30.020 President Trump said we're with Mohammed bin Zayed, as we keep saying, MBZ, different than MBS.
00:45:36.080 MBZ is really the head of the UAE.
00:45:39.760 He is the most significant individual in the Middle East.
00:45:43.220 There's no second.
00:45:45.140 And President Trump thinks very highly of him.
00:45:46.900 You saw today.
00:45:48.240 We're going to have a better opening tonight because we're going to tie more in that the strong personal relationship that President Trump has with MBZ.
00:45:56.800 There's no audio to this right now.
00:45:59.940 There is going to be a state dinner.
00:46:02.740 I think President Trump is going to address, make an address.
00:46:06.080 Of course, Real America's Voice, as we do, we'll cover it all live.
00:46:09.280 Charlie Kirk follows us.
00:46:10.480 Jack Posobiec at 2.
00:46:11.600 Steve Gruber at 3.
00:46:13.820 Eric Bolling at 4.
00:46:14.820 I will do a handoff from Eric at 5.
00:46:17.960 And Natalie tonight is going to do the 6 o'clock show.
00:46:20.280 She's got so much news to break that we're going to give her hours.
00:46:22.920 She's going to go through stuff.
00:46:24.800 I'll be back here at 5.
00:46:25.980 I want to keep that shot.
00:46:27.640 Tony Lyons is my guest in the house.
00:46:29.920 Tony, you're a former lefty, now a big part of the MAGA movement.
00:46:33.760 You came at it through the Make America Healthy Again.
00:46:36.540 What is Make America Healthy Again?
00:46:38.260 What does it even mean?
00:46:39.820 Why is it so important to merge with this, with MAGA?
00:46:43.260 Because this puts us in power for 50 years.
00:46:45.880 And I understand you have a big announcement about Make America Healthy Again.
00:46:49.600 Sure.
00:46:49.860 I mean, MAGA is a movement to rescue American children.
00:46:56.280 So what's been happening in this country is American children are under attack.
00:47:01.120 And this has to stop.
00:47:02.900 So you go to any high school in America and you see sick children.
00:47:06.980 You see people who are suffering from every disorder you can imagine.
00:47:10.960 It's not happening to kids all around the world.
00:47:13.240 And there are concrete steps we can take to make sure that it doesn't happen here anymore.
00:47:18.320 And it's amazing that President Trump was able to and was willing to bring in Bobby Kennedy.
00:47:24.380 And, you know, Bobby Kennedy has said many, many times, God bless President Trump for giving me this opportunity.
00:47:32.100 And so Bobby Kennedy is going to work day and night, do everything he can to rescue these children.
00:47:38.840 And I think everybody on the right and the left, everybody in America should support him.
00:47:43.720 And they should stop kowtowing, stop bowing to these big corporations who are poisoning American children.
00:47:50.220 So, yeah, we have just launched the MAGA Institute, which is going to be a policy incubator that's going to come up with, you know, thoughts, policies, programs that actually help children.
00:48:05.940 And so you're launching that was last night.
00:48:08.200 You're launching at this big reception you had today.
00:48:10.480 You can announce it.
00:48:11.700 What is the MAGA Institute?
00:48:13.440 The MAGA Institute is, like I said, this policy incubator.
00:48:16.960 We're going to bring in grassroots groups from all around the country.
00:48:20.960 And we have them all today where we're meeting with about 100 different people.
00:48:25.580 Each of them represents thousands and thousands of people in their home states.
00:48:29.640 And we're going to listen to them and have them put forth policy ideas that will then present to HHS in the hope that they will find a way to implement them.
00:48:40.300 Right there, seeing on your screen, this was like a Trump rally.
00:48:43.720 Are we in, like, Akron, Ohio?
00:48:45.760 I mean, these folks are, they're worked up.
00:48:49.900 President Trump, a historic, historic trip to the Middle East.
00:48:54.720 One of the reasons I wanted to have Luz on about Zbig was about the book, was the central part of the whole thing started.
00:49:03.820 The Iranian or Persian crisis started on Carter's watch in 1979.
00:49:10.380 And here we are so many decades later with at least some initial resolution to make sure we get rid of these, that there's never get to a nuclear weapon.
00:49:19.820 Very, very controversial.
00:49:21.500 President Trump, I think, will announce something.
00:49:23.300 He's saying he's going to announce something today or maybe even tomorrow.
00:49:25.620 We are going to start doing two or three times a week Make America Healthy Again segment to get some of the top thinkers.
00:49:34.140 In your mind, what is the cutting edge of Make America Healthy Again thought?
00:49:38.740 I mean, Nicole Shanahan's got a whole, she's one of the founders of the movement.
00:49:42.600 She's got a whole take. 0.96
00:49:43.840 She focuses on the food and the soil and that part of it.
00:49:46.760 She's very, she wanted to really put all her people in agriculture. 0.84
00:49:50.960 Bobby's over there.
00:49:51.780 You got Big Pharma they're going after.
00:49:54.660 Big Medicine they're going after. 1.00
00:49:56.600 He's talking about Medicaid.
00:49:57.800 What do you think is the tip of the spear of what the actual issues are?
00:50:01.600 Yeah, let me just go back for a second to your question on Democrats who've become pro-MAGA.
00:50:08.620 And, you know, I'm one of them.
00:50:10.500 Bobby Kennedy is one of them.
00:50:12.280 Tulsi Gabbard.
00:50:13.540 Nicole Shanahan.
00:50:14.280 Nicole Shanahan.
00:50:15.320 So all of these different people.
00:50:17.220 And if you think about it, people all around the world.
00:50:20.440 I mean, there were people in Syria cheering in the last couple of days because of Trump's policies.
00:50:26.880 And there are people here who've been lefties all their life.
00:50:30.120 Let's try to, we've tried it different ways.
00:50:32.200 Let's drop the sanctions.
00:50:33.460 Let's try to bring these people in economically.
00:50:35.460 He's trying to, and I realize a lot of people over this country say these guys are ISIS.
00:50:38.780 You got these terrorists.
00:50:40.120 Trump's saying in a lot of the situation with Qatar, which I'm not totally happy with, he's saying, hey, let's try economics.
00:50:45.760 We've tried everything else.
00:50:46.700 It's all failed, right?
00:50:48.260 There's still a war.
00:50:49.980 Is that what you're saying is that he just tries different things?
00:50:52.820 It's the same kind of thing, you know, that I was discussing with food policies, with agricultural policies, with, you know, all of these things that are part of Maha, that Donald Trump has shown that he's open to it.
00:51:07.280 And the Democratic Party that used to stand for free speech, that used to be anti-war, that used to be anti-censorship, that used to be anti-propaganda, is now for all of those things.
00:51:19.800 I mean—
00:51:20.180 They're for the CIA.
00:51:21.180 They're for the deep state.
00:51:22.040 Sure, sure.
00:51:22.240 They're for big pharma.
00:51:23.220 They're for big tech.
00:51:24.080 What happened to the Democratic Party?
00:51:26.020 It's hard for me to imagine that because many of the things that I care about are the exact same things that I cared about before.
00:51:32.460 But you've got Donald Trump making peace all around the world and the Democratic Party advocating for war all around the world.
00:51:40.220 It's insane, isn't it?
00:51:41.500 You know, so what do those words even mean now?
00:51:43.960 So if you think about it, we have a president now who's open to ideas.
00:51:49.600 He's open to cutting-edge therapies in, you know, medicine.
00:51:54.520 I mean, who wouldn't be for that?
00:51:56.240 And the Democratic Party is part of the corruption holding back new ideas.
00:52:00.800 On the screen, you see him coming.
00:52:01.940 We're going to toss to Charlie Kirk at noon.
00:52:04.380 We've got about 60 seconds.
00:52:05.680 Where do people go to Make America Health Again Institute?
00:52:08.200 Send them somewhere.
00:52:09.740 Sure.
00:52:10.280 They can go to mahainstitute.us.
00:52:14.520 Okay.
00:52:14.900 We'll figure this out.
00:52:15.680 And then for Sky Horse Books, where do they go?
00:52:20.020 You've got the best publishing house in the world.
00:52:22.500 Skyhorsepublishing.com.
00:52:24.200 Okay.
00:52:24.700 And they're our imprint.
00:52:26.100 They're our partner.
00:52:26.720 Our War Room Books.
00:52:27.420 Got a bunch of War Room Books coming out in this summer.
00:52:29.880 Going to be huge right there.
00:52:31.480 We're going to toss it directly to Charlie Kirk.
00:52:34.540 I think President Trump's going to be coming down and just absolutely looks like a Trump rally.
00:52:38.380 We could be in Akron, Ohio.
00:52:40.760 It's just what does this guy do?
00:52:43.000 Next level.
00:52:43.740 Okay.
00:52:44.220 We're going to break it all down for you.
00:52:45.360 We're going to be back at 5.
00:52:46.460 I'm doing a hard transfer over from Eric Bolling today.
00:52:50.160 5 to 7 at night.
00:52:51.160 We're back here live.
00:52:52.380 See you back in the world.
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