Bannon's War Room - Episode 4577： Trump Returns To DC Today; Israel Stands To Have No Air Capability In The War

00:00:00.000 It seems kind of strange that the prime minister of Israel would launch this attack knowing they don't have the capability to take out the main enrichment site.

00:00:07.680 He must have been expecting Trump to get involved from the very beginning.

00:00:10.720 I think he's probably, yes, I think he probably has anticipated that this is something that he's wanted to do for the entire time that he's been the Israeli prime minister

00:00:19.140 and has never had such a supportive voice in the White House as he sees in Donald Trump.

00:00:26.020 I don't I don't think Trump wants to do this, by the way.

00:00:28.600 Let me also own that. I don't think this is something Trump wants to do.

00:00:32.840 I think he wants a negotiated resolution.

00:00:35.780 But it just seems as if Israel has put us in this position where now almost the U.S. is feeling backed into a corner.

00:00:43.900 This 30,000 pound massive ordinance penetrator, the mop, as they call the bunker buster.

00:00:49.480 And you can see just how big it is.

00:00:52.420 You've got 172 foot wingspan.

00:00:55.600 And if anyone's been to an air show and seen this, it's quite an impressive thing.

00:01:00.280 Can fly up to 50,000 altitude capable of midair refueling.

00:01:05.680 Yeah. And so it's you can also use a B-52.

00:01:08.960 But this is the preferred aircraft because of its stealth, because this aircraft won't be seen coming.

00:01:14.760 Tuesday, when he had a National Security Council meeting, he was presented with attack plans on Iran, including going after Fordow, the nuclear site that is deep within a mountain about a mile and a half a mile, excuse me, underneath that mountain that would require pretty large American bombs in order to destroy.

00:01:30.440 He approved of those plans, but he did not give a final order.

00:01:34.200 So effectively, he has the defense community, the military community being prepared for if he were to say go to go.

00:01:40.800 But once you make that decision, once you say once you get those attack plans ready, it does build a bit of momentum towards saying go.

00:01:49.900 Now, he can always pull back. And it seems like he has with this with this two weeks play.

00:01:53.080 But he's now having meetings with, you know, people like Steve Bannon about whether or not actually going ahead would break the MAGA coalition.

00:02:01.760 He's having meetings with, you know, people out of the traditional Republican hawks who would like him to go ahead and even push further towards regime change.

00:02:09.080 He's he's caught in a in a bit of a bind here between, you know, in his own politics and the military situation.

00:02:13.960 You saw the movie, the latest Top Gun movie eerily enough, this is that plot kind of coming to fruition in real life.

00:02:21.440 It's not just one bomb. It'll be a bomb after a bomb to get through that penetration.

00:02:26.460 Iran has had five decades, five decades, almost half a century to talk.

00:02:30.120 And what they've done instead, kill 609 American troops in Iraq. 0.81

00:02:34.340 What they've done is put an assassination plot on President Trump's head.

00:02:38.500 What they've done is take American hostages and wreak havoc on the world. 0.91

00:02:42.440 America first is not sitting in a beach chair and using words.

00:02:45.420 It's taking decisive action when we can take out four dough, one swoop of an airplane.

00:02:51.440 Do you buy what Gabbard is suggesting that the media is twisting her words and that she actually is in lockstep with Trump?

00:02:58.660 I think she's more lockstep with Trump now.

00:03:03.200 It is true that that was said back in March.

00:03:05.740 There is a discrepancy to a degree between what you saw then and what you see now.

00:03:10.160 But things have also changed since then.

00:03:12.440 And the intelligence is different.

00:03:14.440 Now, understand there's two ways to look at intelligence.

00:03:16.640 One, intelligence is little bits and scraps of information.

00:03:20.000 Two, intelligence is an assessment.

00:03:22.160 What she was giving there was the perception of all of the different intelligence agencies assessed together.

00:03:30.640 What the president is relying on now is the intelligence assessment largely of the CIA and, to a degree, the Israeli intelligence services.

00:03:40.640 They're about 80 percent in lockstep.

00:03:42.780 So it's one of those things that's sort of nuanced.

00:03:46.200 But in the end, Tulsi Gabbard has been in all of or most of, not all, the high-level meetings about this, I'm told.

00:03:54.180 She solicits, or better said, the president solicits her opinion.

00:03:57.900 She gives it.

00:03:58.740 He trusts her advice.

00:03:59.780 And she's not going anywhere anytime soon.

00:04:01.960 Of course, famous last words for a reporter to say that based on what Trump officials have told him.

00:04:06.440 But that's what I'm being told by a number of people who, in the past, have been very accurate about such things.

00:04:14.440 This is the primal scream of a dying regime.

00:04:19.340 Pray for our enemies.

00:04:21.300 Because we're going medieval on these people.

00:04:24.580 I got a free shot at all these networks lying about the people.

00:04:28.840 The people have had a belly full of it.

00:04:30.740 I know you don't like hearing that.

00:04:32.180 I know you've tried to do everything in the world to stop that.

00:04:33.940 But you're not going to stop it.

00:04:34.860 It's going to happen.

00:04:35.920 And where do people like that go to share the big line?

00:04:39.540 MAGA Media.

00:04:40.460 I wish in my soul, I wish that any of these people had a conscience.

00:04:46.380 Ask yourself, what is my task and what is my purpose?

00:04:50.080 If that answer is to save my country, this country will be saved.

00:04:56.480 War Room.

00:04:57.300 Here's your host, Stephen K. Vann.

00:04:59.680 It's Saturday, 21 June, in the year of our Lord, 2025.

00:05:09.460 I guess it's summer solstice today.

00:05:11.340 Actually, I guess summer actually starts today, although in the United States and the United Kingdom and other places,

00:05:17.100 it's looked at as one more World Day or close to the end of May.

00:05:19.580 Mark Caputo from Axios joins us.

00:05:23.740 Mark, thank you.

00:05:24.440 But so it's going to be in a moment.

00:05:26.720 First off, if I can get up on the split screen.

00:05:29.420 They put out last night the president of the United States is actually going to return today from Bedminster.

00:05:34.300 And on the calendar that they put out publicly, he's going to get a national security briefing in the Oval Office at 6 p.m.

00:05:44.020 And we are working with Real America's Voice.

00:05:47.320 I think there's going to be a bonus afternoon war room, maybe starting around 4 o'clock.

00:05:52.340 More information we get on this throughout the day.

00:05:54.920 It looks like we will have assets in place to be able to cover everything live.

00:06:01.360 Because I will tell you, remember in The Bridge Too Far, in the movie about Market Garden, in the last bridge at Arnhem,

00:06:13.000 the phrase there was, the party is on.

00:06:18.000 And so that is our analysis this morning.

00:06:19.940 Is the party on?

00:06:22.020 Is this thing, are we inexorably drawn into this?

00:06:25.120 And maybe today's the day of action.

00:06:26.660 And, you know, the one, just the one swoop of a jet that Kayleigh McEnany wants, just one swoop of a jet just going across.

00:06:35.380 So we've got Mark Caputo.

00:06:36.660 Mark, thank you.

00:06:37.420 Pretty explosive, I think.

00:06:40.040 Your hit last night with Coats on CNN.

00:06:44.480 Can you walk us through, just once again, what your logic, what your sources are telling you about the intelligence that the President of the United States is actually getting that informs his opinion on this situation in Persia?

00:07:01.040 The main intelligence briefer for Donald Trump has been the CIA.

00:07:05.580 It's been John Ratcliffe, the head of the CIA.

00:07:07.480 And the CIA, its new assessment, its intelligence, based on I don't specifically know what, because it is the CIA, I shouldn't know what, had led the President to believe that there was a significant change in posture and a threat level of Iran and a need to move.

00:07:31.660 Now, since I've got more time here, one of the great things about doing podcasts is that we're not kind of hemmed in by, you know, two, three-minute commercial breaks is I should also add that.

00:07:42.580 But hang on, hang on, hang on, Caputo.

00:07:44.260 Hang on, Caputo.

00:07:45.220 I want to make sure.

00:07:45.960 Sure.

00:07:46.260 We've streamed this live, so we're a live TV show, and we have the three-minute breaks.

00:07:50.180 Here's the difference.

00:07:51.680 Oh, really?

00:07:52.160 You usually take more time.

00:07:54.300 No, no, we take more time.

00:07:55.800 No, no, here's why.

00:07:57.200 There's a difference.

00:07:58.200 In the old cable, they're just boom, boom, boom.

00:08:00.640 All they want is up there and just get, like, two soundbites.

00:08:03.440 Here, we understand a reporter like yourself that is deeply dialed in with great sources.

00:08:08.640 In fact, some of the most explosive stories coming out of the Trump White House are coming via you and Axios.

00:08:16.400 Have they ever come out and refuted any major story that you've broken at the White House, given your sources throughout the administration?

00:08:25.420 Not that I'm aware of.

00:08:26.780 I guess you usually learn more from your losses and your wins, and you remember them.

00:08:31.620 So it hasn't happened yet, but maybe give them time.

00:08:35.080 But where I was going with that is the—

00:08:37.080 Take your time on this.

00:08:37.820 Take your time.

00:08:38.560 Take your time.

00:08:39.180 This is very important.

00:08:40.120 You take it.

00:08:40.540 The CIA, you know, as I said on Laura Coates, there's two ways to look at intelligence.

00:08:45.540 And this is one of the problems with reporting saying, oh, there's no new intelligence in Iran, and the president just acted.

00:08:52.480 Well, that might mean there's no new bits and scraps and pieces of information.

00:08:56.700 But that doesn't mean there's not a new intelligence assessment based on old ones.

00:09:01.660 Now, we're not quite sure exactly what the CIA has obviously said to Donald Trump and briefed him on, but it's the lead briefer.

00:09:08.680 And it is working closely, and it always has in the Middle East, and certainly when it comes to Israel, will work with Israeli intelligence services.

00:09:17.900 I'm told the intelligence shared between the two is about 80 percent, or it's about 80 percent identical between the United States, CIA, and Israel.

00:09:27.220 And based on CIA's assessment, that is when Donald Trump said, you know, I need to do something.

00:09:35.040 Now, what I didn't mention there, and what we didn't go into there, and we'll go into here, is two other factors played into Donald Trump's posture.

00:09:43.880 One, the IAEA report, the International Atomic Energy Agency, come out, or its administration, had come out and said things are a lot more dire or threatening with Iran.

00:09:56.100 That's one, and that's a big thing.

00:09:58.840 And then two, there was a feeling that, in the words of one Trump advisor told me, that the Ayatollah had, quote, given us the middle finger.

00:10:08.220 And Trump had said, you've got to make a deal or else, so this is what the or else looks like, the building up.

00:10:16.700 And then I think kind of thirdly, or in addition to all of these things, is the fact that Netanyahu launched his attack.

00:10:23.580 And we have to look at what Netanyahu was looking at.

00:10:28.840 One, Hamas and Hezbollah are degraded.

00:10:32.540 They were great proxies to tie Israel down, Iran proxies. 0.90

00:10:37.340 They're degraded.

00:10:38.920 Assad in Syria is gone.

00:10:41.880 And Israel had already had this operation sort of in the works.

00:10:47.120 And at a certain point, with all of these different factors working up, is Bibi Netanyahu had continually, for a long period of time, been sort of almost a dog on a leash here, an attack dog, wanting to go after Iran.

00:11:03.560 And finally, with everything happening, Trump essentially said, I'm not going to stand in your way.

00:11:09.600 And Netanyahu and Israel went ahead. 0.75

00:11:11.820 Now, once that attack looks so successful, you know Donald Trump better than I do.

00:11:17.840 You're the guy who had lunch with him the other day.

00:11:21.260 Trump just saw that success and really wanted to be in that slipstream, as I mentioned at CNN.

00:11:27.240 But the thing about being in a slipstream is you're in someone else's wake, and eventually you can hit some turbulence.

00:11:32.420 And Donald Trump is suspicious about going to war.

00:11:37.760 He is not ready to go to war yet or drop bombs yet.

00:11:42.240 And the reason we know that is he hasn't done it.

00:11:44.460 And I think some of that initial blood being up from Trump in those initial first days has cooled a little as he sought more information, more opinions.

00:11:55.140 As you know, he crowdsources a lot of big decisions.

00:11:58.140 And this is one of them.

00:11:59.280 And so I can't predict what's going to happen now or, you know, by 6 p.m., but I think it's safe to say that Donald Trump is taking in all of the information he has.

00:12:09.880 And he's torn between wanting to go ahead and do this and stop Iran from getting a nuke, in his view, and also, on the far end of his spectrum, wanting a Nobel Peace Prize.

00:12:22.200 I think he understands you don't win Nobel Peace Prizes by dropping bombs in the name of peace.

00:12:29.280 I want to break down.

00:12:32.280 Audience, that's one of the most sophisticated and smart analysis of where we are.

00:12:36.640 And I want to, Mark, I'm going to impose upon you from not going out and finishing your yard work to stick with us for a few minutes.

00:12:42.920 That's okay.

00:12:43.460 I've already showered and everything.

00:12:45.100 That's fine.

00:12:47.360 I want to go before.

00:12:49.920 Or when you say CIA and Mossad are, because that's what we're talking about.

00:12:56.660 There's not so much military intelligence.

00:12:58.320 Maybe some shinbin, but it's really Mossad. 0.88

00:13:02.580 When you say 80 percent, it's what 80 percent, particularly given the urgency.

00:13:08.300 That's a good question.

00:13:09.460 The urgency. 0.89

00:13:10.260 I tell you what, why don't you hang, I want you to think about that.

00:13:14.080 I want to make sure you have a reasoned response.

00:13:17.060 We're here on a Saturday at the traditional Saturday morning war room.

00:13:22.100 As you know, one of my favorite show of the week.

00:13:26.000 Because we can catch our breath and go a little more in depth.

00:13:28.600 This afternoon, if things play out like we think they may play out, we will be back live around 4 or 5 o'clock to see the president come back and kind of hang around the rim to see what happens at this national security briefing.

00:13:45.940 There are people saying, there are a lot of people saying, hey, they're trying to play out the negotiations.

00:13:51.700 There are also people saying that the Iranians, one, there's a lot of dead senior people.

00:13:58.600 Number two, they're pretty, the Persians are pretty bureaucratic and slow anyway. 1.00

00:14:04.280 It's tough to even get somebody to answer Wyckoff's call about who you even sit down with.

00:14:10.120 There's also this, some of the Persians saying, well, hey, you got to, you got to put Bibi back on a leash.

00:14:15.860 We can't keep getting bombed and shelled while we're negotiating.

00:14:19.220 We're not going to be able to sell that to our people because it's going to look like it's coercive, right?

00:14:25.660 But there's others.

00:14:27.900 I'm just reporting what I'm hearing from pretty good sources.

00:14:32.880 The party is on.

00:14:35.380 So another big weekend in this unfolding aspect of the Third World War.

00:14:44.440 And no, anyone that's telling you that the Third World War is not here is absolutely does not understand the development and evolution of kinetic war.

00:14:53.940 Short commercial break.

00:14:55.060 Mark Caputo from Axios next.

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00:16:18.220 Seems kind of strange that the prime minister of Israel would launch this attack knowing they don't have the capability to take out the main enrichment site.

00:16:25.740 He must have been expecting Trump to get involved from the very beginning.

00:16:28.540 I think he's probably, yes, I think he probably has anticipated that this is something that he's wanted to do for the entire time that he's been the Israeli prime minister and has never had such a supportive voice in the White House as he sees in Donald Trump.

00:16:43.700 I don't think Trump wants to do this, by the way.

00:16:46.880 Let me also own that.

00:16:48.460 I don't think this is something Trump wants to do.

00:16:50.880 I think he wants a negotiated resolution.

00:16:53.700 But it just seems as if Israel has put us in this position where now almost the U.S. is feeling backed into a corner.

00:17:01.560 Okay, welcome back.

00:17:04.940 As you know, we're a very pro-Israel show and site and platform, and we catch a lot of grief for that.

00:17:13.600 We've been very supportive of going after the Muslim Brotherhood Hamas in Gaza, also what happened in Syria, the destruction of Hezbollah, even the taking out of the Persians' air defense, which the Israelis have done. 0.93

00:17:28.160 And we're not a fan of this, and we're not a fan of this because of what Smirkanis just said.

00:17:34.060 If the United States is going to be involved, we have to understand that at the beginning.

00:17:37.740 And you're reporting, you just said something last block, Caputo, that President Trump and his team kind of acquiesced when these guys came with this because the intelligence is 80 percent Mossad, right, in CIA.

00:17:54.200 Yeah, that sense of urgency is built up.

00:17:57.300 Yeah, they're about 80 percent in agreement is what I understand.

00:17:59.980 Essentially, like, allegedly, and I don't know what the intelligence is, they sort of mesh up about at an 80 percent rate, right?

00:18:08.380 Okay, how did this – but how did this – was it intelligence that something was happening?

00:18:13.920 Or is it intelligence that, hey, we can make a move because it's good?

00:18:18.580 And at any time – as your reporting showed you, at any time, Smirkanis' point, that it was brought to President Trump's attention that, yo, when this attack starts, they do not have the capability.

00:18:32.380 And they admit it, they don't have the capability to finish what they started, and unless it's finished at Fordor, it's not finished.

00:18:40.920 It's really – it doesn't matter if you did the – the 80 percent or 90 percent you got or 75 percent you got doesn't matter because you've got to get that last 25 percent, sir.

00:18:50.920 I can't speak to that.

00:18:53.640 What I can tell you – what I was told by one senior official when I asked, okay, it's been reported that there was no new intelligence, but then Donald Trump essentially said there was, what's the deal?

00:19:06.080 And I was told this is that in the view and the assessment of the CIA and, therefore, the administration now, the Iranians were making progress three ways, making the delivery system for a nuclear weapon, huge progress there.

00:19:19.740 I'm quoting, by the way, getting more centrifuges and the guts to make a bomb, huge progress there, enriching from 20 to 60 to 90 percent, not as much progress.

00:19:31.140 We're talking months and weeks, not days and not years either.

00:19:35.340 And what I was led to believe is where the two intelligence agencies or countries might differ is the degree of the enrichment and the speed with which a nuclear weapon can be assembled and deployed.

00:19:54.880 So that would confirm – I just want to go back to the wrong words.

00:20:00.540 That would confirm on Sunday evening and Brett Baer, who's the star of the really news side of Fox, interviewing Bebe, and he asked kind of the same question I just asked you.

00:20:11.080 And he said, look, why was it Thursday night?

00:20:14.960 What was the urgency?

00:20:15.740 And he kind of went through some of those, but he said it's about 12 to 13 months away, right?

00:20:21.480 Is it any – it's all the summation of yours that it's sometime in the – it's sooner than it's been in the past.

00:20:28.600 And the IEAE, we shouldn't miss this in Israel's side. 0.98

00:20:34.000 They're saying now they're getting enrichment for, I don't know, 10 to 15 bombs or the potential for 10 to 15 bombs.

00:20:39.780 Am I correct about that report, which shocked everybody?

00:20:42.180 I can't remember that specific number, but when that report – pardon the pun, not intended when I thought of it – it was a bombshell report because it just showed the degree of uranium enrichment that was happening.

00:20:56.820 And when we go back to what Tulsi Gabbard was saying before, she was saying the amount of enrichment that – and this was in March – that Iran was engaging in was not consistent with a peacetime nuclear development.

00:21:10.740 So there's been this narrative out there that she's some sort of peacenik who sort of massaged the numbers.

00:21:18.660 And now some of her emphasis obviously probably with the benefit of hindsight could have been harsher, harder, or more dire.

00:21:25.160 But what's clear and what really was made clear in the IAEA report was Iran was doing a lot of enrichment in their assessment, and that had a major effect.

00:21:37.180 Understand that when Donald Trump withdrew – I can't remember if it was 2019 or 2020, 2018 – in his first administration, Donald Trump withdrew from the Iran nuclear deal,

00:21:46.360 the JCPOA struck by Obama and other nations with Iran, and one of the criticisms then was that the United States shouldn't have done it,

00:21:56.760 and Iran would have been able to then enrich more uranium and would have freehand to do it.

00:22:02.200 However, it was still sort of bound by the other signatories.

00:22:05.000 Nevertheless, in the agreement, there is something that they call snapback,

00:22:08.860 which essentially calls for much more sanctions and much harsher treatment of Iran if it did stuff like what the IAEA report showed.

00:22:17.140 And that's a major thing.

00:22:19.280 I think what's also being left out – and I'm guilty of this – of the discussion in Israel or Bibi's mind

00:22:25.900 is it's not just that Iran's proxies were degraded.

00:22:31.240 It's not just that Assad was gone from Syria.

00:22:34.000 It's not just that the Israelis had a plan that had a high degree of likelihood of success, which wound up being true. 0.80

00:22:42.700 It's not just that Iran, according to the IAEA and all of these other reports,

00:22:47.880 showed that Iran was close to making a nuclear weapon or was dangerously close to it.

00:22:53.980 It's also that Iran's missile program was starting to progress in leaps and bounds a lot faster than it's comfortable for Israel.

00:23:02.360 And Israel – it's not just Iron Dome.

00:23:05.200 That's just sort of a kind of a catch-all term.

00:23:08.220 But Israel has a tiered air defense system of interceptor missiles to shoot down rockets and missiles.

00:23:16.280 In fact, the United States, I think, has, what, seven?

00:23:18.920 I think we have seven THAAD, theater high altitude area – I can't remember the exact term – the interceptor missile systems.

00:23:27.960 And two of them are in Israel to help them cope with this.

00:23:31.640 But the thing with having an interceptor missile system – and I'm just going to use just simple terms.

00:23:37.440 If you've got 500 interceptor missiles and your opponent launches 1,000 missiles, guess what happens?

00:23:43.180 You get hit by 500 of them.

00:23:44.940 And Israel was looking at being overwhelmed by a bellicose Iran should it launch those. 0.99

00:23:51.600 So everything for Bibi – and I understand this – and he obviously has domestic problems at home, which is a whole other kettle of fish.

00:23:57.900 All of those things just lined up where this just was the time for them to attack.

00:24:02.700 And to Smirconish's point, in the back of Netanyahu's head, it is widely believed he thought that Trump would get caught in the slipstream and would just sort of be brought along to do this.

00:24:12.960 I don't know, though, when it became clear that they'd need the United States to bunker bust the Florida nuclear facility under a mountain.

00:24:21.180 It's, number one, unclear how effective that's going to be.

00:24:24.020 And despite the saber rattling on Fox or other shows that, oh, we just have this sort of magic bomb that's going to blow things up, there is a long history of war of those who are unaccustomed to the horrors of it are most eager to engage in the activity.

00:24:41.760 And we've seen time and time again what the famous quote from Kaiser Wilhelm in World War I that the boys will be back by summer.

00:24:49.540 Well, they weren't.

00:24:50.340 And so Trump is well aware that the promise of technology or swift battles and effective victories and bloodless wins is a sort of a pie crust promise, to use the Mary Poppins term.

00:25:07.400 You know, it's easily made and easily broken.

00:25:09.240 No battle plan survives first contact with the enemy, as Klaus Witz had said.

00:25:12.780 There's so much there, and I want to get, I want to get Jack Posovo, but I just want to get one point very clear.

00:25:21.640 And there's no plan.

00:25:22.860 Max Boot has reinforced this.

00:25:24.400 Many people have reinforced this that are not MAGA and pretty much never Trump.

00:25:29.280 There is, the Israelis have no capability, right? 1.00

00:25:33.780 And I'm not talking about commando racing or anything like that, but they have no air capability.

00:25:38.780 No air capability.

00:25:40.580 If you start this and you have to, you've got two issues.

00:25:44.860 One, the ballistic missile program that clearly you're absolutely correct that they were making huge, the Persians making huge progress on it.

00:25:50.980 And that was a concern.

00:25:51.660 But on the actual enrichment in the facility of actually weaponizing this, it gets down to Fedor at the end.

00:25:58.840 You have to make sure that that's out.

00:26:00.420 And I think they've scattered it all over the country, but at least you've got to do that.

00:26:04.220 They don't have, they don't have the actual, you know, air assault capability to take that out.

00:26:12.800 That absolutely has to come from the Americans, does it not? 0.98

00:26:15.380 It does.

00:26:16.800 They don't have the bomb and they don't have the delivery system to deliver the bomb.

00:26:22.360 That is the planes.

00:26:23.780 Now, in the past, Israel had actually offered, and this has been known for a while, to say, hey, look, we'll fly the planes, right?

00:26:31.240 You know, blood won't be on your hands.

00:26:33.340 So I know that was said in prior, or I was told that was said in prior administrations.

00:26:38.780 I'm not sure how in play that is here.

00:26:40.860 But, yes, in order for there to be more certainty and in order to really destroy the facility, they will likely need the American, you know, the B-2 bomber and this massive MOP ordinance. 0.81

00:27:01.680 That said, there is a component, and there are people who say the famous, you know, military idea that, you know, fire without maneuver is inconclusive, maneuver without fire is suicide.

00:27:13.520 But in order to really make sure there's a school of thought that there does need to be boots on the ground, or do need to be boots on the ground, that some commando or other sort of group of men, soldiers, or whatever, have to go in there and get the stuff and then blow it up.

00:27:32.620 Now, the United States is not going to do that.

00:27:33.820 That would mean Israel. 0.92

00:27:34.600 Israel doesn't like to spend its soldiers because it's a small country.

00:27:38.440 So that leaves the logical option of just bomb the hell out of the mountain.

00:27:42.800 But that might be inconclusive.

00:27:44.460 Last thing, Ted Postol, MIT scientist and expert in missiles.

00:27:49.560 Hang on, Ted, hang on.

00:27:49.960 I want to hold this.

00:27:50.860 I want to hold this.

00:27:51.660 I'm going to hold this after the break.

00:27:52.920 Hang on.

00:27:53.140 Sorry.

00:27:54.820 Posovic's with us.

00:27:55.520 We've taken Caputo out of his garden and put him on the show, which he should.

00:28:00.220 These should be on primetime everywhere.

00:28:02.240 Taking the time to actually walk through this with real reporting from the White House.

00:28:08.160 Is the party on?

00:28:10.580 If it is, folks.

00:28:14.800 Well, we'll talk about that.

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00:29:57.920 Do not let this thing get ahead of you.

00:30:01.000 Here's your host, Stephen K. Mann.

00:30:04.960 I'm going to get Jack Masovic in here.

00:30:06.640 By the way, Birch Gold, always on Saturday.

00:30:09.700 Take your phone out.

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00:30:12.180 I think now is the time.

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00:30:23.960 Make sure you do that today.

00:30:26.420 So I'm going to bring you in, but I've got to mention, I've never had a reporter of any type actually quote Clausewitz the way it should be quoted in a perfect time.

00:30:36.400 But I would be remiss if I didn't say that your father, First Lieutenant Philip Caputo, I think wrote, if not the best book in the Vietnam War,

00:30:45.940 one of the best books in the Vietnam War, The Rumor of War.

00:30:49.360 He knew war, did he not, sir?

00:30:52.060 Yeah.

00:30:52.460 I mean, I was brought up.

00:30:54.140 He was a reporter before that.

00:30:55.640 In fact, the reason you know about Mayor Daley's voting fraud is because he was part of that Pulitzer Prize winning team for the Chicago Tribune back in 72.

00:31:01.360 But I was certainly brought up with, as a son of a Vietnam vet and who was there on the shores in 65 and then returned as a reporter to cover the fall of Saigon in 75,

00:31:13.740 had seen what happens with the promise of war and then the realities of it.

00:31:18.340 And very often those jingoistic people who predict that things are going to go great very often don't know what they're talking about.

00:31:25.920 Things don't go so well.

00:31:28.260 Yeah, the Gulf of Tung King. 0.53

00:31:29.900 Jack Bosovic.

00:31:31.040 By the way, if people have never, you want to read a great book on Vietnam, Da Nang 1965, from a ground pounder's view of the Marines,

00:31:39.500 a rumor of war would be a great weekend read for folks compared to the Gulf of Tung King and all the all the chess beating that went into Vietnam.

00:31:47.920 And then the the men that actually had to deliver in the brutality of it.

00:31:52.940 And oftentimes.

00:31:55.140 It seemed the purposelessness of it.

00:31:59.100 And the bravery and the valor of our Vietnam veterans, you want to get up.

00:32:03.080 You want to get a real view from that from the ground rumor wars your book.

00:32:06.500 Mark, there's other great ones, too, but this one's fantastic.

00:32:10.860 Your dad's just an extraordinary writer, Mark.

00:32:14.420 Jack Bosovic, observations on what Brother Caputo has been putting forward.

00:32:19.860 Well, Steve, I have to agree.

00:32:22.080 Caputo is exactly right on these situations.

00:32:25.080 War, easy to get in, hard to get out.

00:32:27.620 And my former boss there, Mr. Michaels Merconish, you know, cribbing off of stuff that I've been saying on the war room all week.

00:32:34.900 But that's OK.

00:32:35.380 It's not the first time that he's cribbed off of Posovic back when I was in college.

00:32:38.360 And he would, you know, take all my take all my drafts and never give me credit for his op ed and his movie Abu Dhabi book.

00:32:44.340 But look, Steve, the latest is that President Trump has deployed B2 stealth bombers.

00:32:50.540 These spirit bombers, each of them with two bomb bays, have the ability to drop these bunker busters.

00:32:55.720 They have been conducting refueling.

00:32:57.380 So there are some indications that they may be riding heavy as they fly out across the Pacific.

00:33:04.360 Fox News reported earlier this morning that they have indications they're headed for Anderson Air Force Base.

00:33:09.280 Now, that's on the northern end of Guam.

00:33:11.300 I was out of the southern end of Guam a couple of times on the naval base there.

00:33:16.640 But up in the northern base, they have a huge Anderson Air Force base.

00:33:19.980 This is the key role of Guam and the island hopping campaign that was undertaken in World War II regarding this.

00:33:27.380 Now, that would put them just at the outside of strike range for an Iran run.

00:33:34.140 Now, this is not as close to Diego Garcia, certainly not as close as Saudi or our air base in Qatar, which are there, obviously, in the Gulf.

00:33:41.220 So if they wanted to strike Iran from Guam, they would have they would have the ability to through air to air refueling. 0.78

00:33:48.320 We know these KC-135s have created this air bridge basically around the world at this point.

00:33:54.060 And, of course, they could also redeploy to Diego and then fly up from there.

00:33:57.920 But currently, it looks like those B-2 bombers, four to six of them, flying in formation with refuelers and others, are headed towards Guam, right smack dab, in the middle of the Pacific Ocean as we speak.

00:34:08.300 So President Trump clearly ratcheting up the pressure here on Iran to make a decision.

00:34:13.120 He's getting the assets, he's getting the assets in place, there's no doubt, to give him alternatives.

00:34:20.480 Mark, help us out here.

00:34:22.940 This is the question.

00:34:25.280 Understanding you didn't have the ability to actually get this done, completed, complete the mission, right?

00:34:32.940 What was the urgency from your reporting and what you've heard and what you know, what was the urgency that you had to have a sneak attack Pearl Harbor type strike last Thursday night to kind of as the initiating event of this conflict?

00:34:53.200 What was it that, if anything, more than just the urgency of the matter and since their stated objectives have been from the beginning, including what you said, the acquiescence of prompts of administration to go, when did this – because this clearly shifted to a decapitation regime change.

00:35:12.140 Now, we said on Friday when we started our coverage that this was a decapitation, at least of the military, maybe not the Ayatollah, but the senior military command, even people outside the nuclear program.

00:35:23.420 It was a decapitation looking like regime change at the time because to us it looked pretty obvious.

00:35:30.180 But what was the urgency to do this and then when did they get into the upsell?

00:35:35.160 Let's try to upsell the Americans on regime change, sir.

00:35:38.140 Well, I can't speak to Netanyahu's mind frame, but as described to me, this was the time where it would never be more propitious for Israel to strike. 0.77

00:35:53.100 Iran was on its – its proxies were gone.

00:35:58.060 It was close to developing a nuke, allegedly.

00:36:01.360 It definitely had a missile program that was a dire threat to Israel.

00:36:06.400 Well, Trump had finally said, I'm not going to hold you back.

00:36:11.660 And so it was go time.

00:36:13.980 I don't know all the factors and all the intelligence.

00:36:16.920 I think if you were to feed all of these factors that I laid out into chat GBT or some sort of logic game, it would have told Beebe to make the strike when he did.

00:36:28.960 So that is just a guess on my part based on just my understanding, filtered through others, of what Israel's calculus was.

00:36:38.600 The administration has told us and we have reported at Axios that, yeah, the Israelis want regime change.

00:36:45.400 We don't – that's not really our concern, I was told by a senior administration official.

00:36:50.060 And as evidence of that, Netanyahu did want to strike the Ayatollah, we are told, and Donald Trump said, don't do it.

00:37:00.080 And when I asked this official why not, they said, consider this to be – it's a case of the Ayatollah you know versus the Ayatollah you don't know.

00:37:09.460 And Trump still wanted sort of more time to make a deal.

00:37:12.680 He still might want some more time, but to Jack's point, boy, the pressure really is ratcheting up.

00:37:18.880 When you say the pressure is ratcheting up because there's colleagues of yours that are in the party – because right now, as we sit here on Saturday morning audience, there are two schools of thought of what's happening.

00:37:30.580 One is that the party is on, that a decision not only has been made, but it looks like it's totally futile to try to negotiate with.

00:37:37.620 There's even not enough guys there.

00:37:39.420 You don't know who's making decisions.

00:37:41.200 They're talking about they need to cease fire.

00:37:42.840 The Israelis are not going to do that.

00:37:44.780 So there's a party is on school, and then there's others said, hey, this two weeks thing may play out.

00:37:51.300 Caputo, from everything you know currently because you're working this weekend, where do you think we stand, sir?

00:37:59.540 In all my conversations, people think it's more likely than less likely that the United States is going to strike Iran.

00:38:07.620 However, it hasn't happened yet.

00:38:10.200 Now, all the pieces aren't in place, but maybe the party's not on, but the hall is rented.

00:38:15.700 The bunting is up.

00:38:17.040 There's punch in the bowl, and some people are walking in with hidden blasts of booze.

00:38:26.120 Sir, how can we follow you on social media?

00:38:29.760 How do we follow you today?

00:38:31.480 Because I know the audience is going to want to do that.

00:38:33.420 Where did they go?

00:38:33.920 I'm more active on Twitter than anywhere else, at Mark A. Caputo.

00:38:38.160 It's Mark with a C.

00:38:39.600 There I am.

00:38:41.300 Technically, my first name is Mark Antonio, so easier to remember with a C than otherwise.

00:38:46.680 But I have the extra A in there because someone else had the Mark Caputo handle when I went to go found it.

00:38:51.460 Last question.

00:38:53.700 Did your father, in your knowledge and study of military history, did that come from your father, or is that something that got you interested later as you realized who your father was?

00:39:03.720 Well, I pulled it off the shelf.

00:39:06.100 Like, this is, you know, the Clausewitz, Jean Migny.

00:39:09.780 These are the books from Officer's Candidate School that he had.

00:39:13.120 This says Da Nang, June 23rd, almost the anniversary of that, 1965.

00:39:18.880 So that's the Clausewitz.

00:39:20.380 You know, there's Vigisius, which is probably my favorite book.

00:39:24.140 Mao Tse Tung.

00:39:25.080 But these are from the OCS, from the Marine Corps back in the day.

00:39:28.600 But after he was a soldier or a Marine, he became a foreign correspondent and covered a number of conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere, including, I think, the Six-Day War in Israel, the war in Eritrea, in Ethiopia.

00:39:45.880 So he did quite a bit of foreign correspondent work.

00:39:49.220 And he left that line of work after, well, almost after he was shot in Beirut, not fatally, but when it went to hell there in, I guess, what, 76, 77?

00:40:00.900 That's when it was sort of time to get out of the combat zones.

00:40:06.340 Mark Caputo, thank you very much for sharing this.

00:40:08.900 Thank you.

00:40:09.220 Appreciate you guys.

00:40:10.020 Take it easy.

00:40:10.620 Good to see you, Jack.

00:40:14.040 Pasovic, thoughts?

00:40:15.860 Well, Steve, the one thing that I would add to some of the calculus on here is that in Israel, it's not as if Bibi Netanyahu is currently sitting on top of a strong coalition the way that President Trump is.

00:40:30.760 President Trump is currently 54%, 55% popularity among the American people.

00:40:35.980 Bibi Netanyahu is currently around 30% among Israel.

00:40:40.040 And this is mostly because of the situation regarding Gaza.

00:40:43.580 And he faced, just about two weeks ago, right on the eve of when all these strikes kicked off, he faced a serious challenge to his premiership in that his coalition almost broke apart.

00:40:55.060 And he narrowly survived a leadership vote by just single-digit votes on the question of this ultra-Orthodox party wanted to pull out.

00:41:05.560 And they didn't want to do the conscription.

00:41:06.900 They didn't want to be conscripted anymore.

00:41:08.660 And this has been a longstanding issue of theirs in Israel.

00:41:11.280 So, and there are also elements, by the way, of, that I'm told, of the Israeli national security infrastructure saying that, wait a minute, is this being done out of political concerns for Bibi Netanyahu personally, or is this being done out of any, you know, claiming that it's being done out of national security concerns?

00:41:31.260 And so, you know, I would just like to throw that in the mix because we do always have to consider the political calculations here as well as the national security calculations and the intelligence.

00:41:41.580 And that really could be the question for why, as anyone can agree, Steve, how many different versions of the intel have we heard at this point, right?

00:41:50.240 We've heard they're about to have it.

00:41:51.720 They're going to have it in two days.

00:41:52.860 Well, now it's actually the delivery system.

00:41:54.500 No, no, no.

00:41:55.140 It's the enrichment.

00:41:55.880 Then it's a month away.

00:41:57.860 Then it's a year away.

00:41:59.280 Then, you know, and you've got Israeli military telling AFP last night, the Associated Free Press, that they, because of the initial strikes and the runs that have gone over the past week and a half or so here, that Iran's missile program has been, or their nuclear program has been delayed by two to three years.

00:42:17.080 And Netanyahu, and the New York Post has it up right now, and no, you know, Murdoch paper has Netanyahu saying we can go it alone.

00:42:24.080 So there's, it's all over the map here.

00:42:26.840 And I think that one of the reasons that a lot of Americans are scratching their heads at the lightning fast speed that all of these events are moving is that we haven't had to sit down and have a serious adult conversation about why this had to happen right now.

00:42:45.060 And no one can really kinnis down on a clear answer on that.

00:42:50.100 Jack, can you hang on?

00:42:51.140 I know you're busy with the family, Dave.

00:42:52.840 I just want to hold you through this short break because I want to talk about the ballistic missile program and the citizens of Israel are taking some serious incoming.

00:43:01.340 You've got to talk about the dome, how it's worked, the American involvement, the naval assets that are helping, the air assets that are helping because underreported stories that the citizens of Israel and Bibi's, I think, his polling has got to be at a record high.

00:43:16.740 They are, I believe, all the controversy around Bibi has been, I think, settled because they are obviously very focused on taking out the Persians. 1.00

00:43:28.420 To them, they know it's an existential threat.

00:43:32.180 And there is conflicting reporting this morning, both agency free press saying, the Israelis saying they've knocked the nuclear program back two or three years, and Bibi telling the New York Post they can go it alone to finish the job, finish what they started.

00:43:48.220 Short commercial break.

00:43:49.160 We've got Poso for one more segment, so let's take advantage of it.

00:43:53.540 Short break.

00:43:54.260 Back in a moment.

00:43:54.760 What if he had the brightest mind in the war room, delivering critical financial research every month?

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00:45:11.060 Do it today.

00:45:13.300 Here's your host, Stephen K. Bannon.

00:45:16.260 I'm informed by the engine room that it is not Clausewitz.

00:45:23.680 It's Von Mulkey about the Von Schliefflin plan, that any plan only survives, no matter how well thought through, first contact with the enemy.

00:45:32.200 Jack Posobiec, those officer candidate books that Caputo's dad had to read in officer candidate school at Quantico back in the mid-1960s before he went to Vietnam as a first lieutenant infantry officer, are the ones that you've had to read and I had to read.

00:45:49.780 Talk to me about, or Mike Tyson put it better, or more succinctly.

00:45:56.720 Everybody's got a plan in the box. 0.94

00:45:58.460 Everybody's got a plan until you get punched right in the mouth, sir. 0.73

00:46:01.040 Well, Steve, that's right.

00:46:03.200 You and I went up through OCS up there in Newport.

00:46:06.400 I don't know what you went through.

00:46:07.900 I went through in winter.

00:46:08.940 And if anyone's joining the Navy and you're going up to Navy OCS, do not go to Newport in the winter.

00:46:14.140 That was one of the worst mistakes I ever made.

00:46:16.300 Covers blowing off all over the place in the snow and in the rain and all the rest of it.

00:46:20.140 And you have to run across the parade ground to go get it.

00:46:24.060 Not a good look for Butter Bar Posobiec in that one.

00:46:27.900 But the enemy always gets a vote.

00:46:32.320 And I see these people on cable news.

00:46:35.280 And I just look at them and say, did you serve?

00:46:37.720 Did you serve?

00:46:38.680 Did you serve?

00:46:39.620 Did you serve?

00:46:40.620 Have you actually been in operation?

00:46:42.640 Have you seen what happens when troops get involved?

00:46:45.940 And you get so many people, Steve, and they have this Marvel movie thinking, you know, like it's Star Wars and Luke Skywalker is going to fly up.

00:46:53.680 And, oh, you just drop one missile in and it's going to blow up the whole Death Star.

00:46:56.740 And I'm sorry, that's just not how the real world works.

00:46:58.940 Plus, the Iranians also understand how our bunker busters work. 0.99

00:47:03.200 And Caputo mentioned the MIT professor said, wait a minute, there's a lot of problems with this plan.

00:47:07.760 You've got angles upon angles that you have to deal with.

00:47:10.000 You're talking about reinforced granite that has – they have ways to deflect the explosion.

00:47:16.540 They know about our bunker busters.

00:47:17.780 It was designed to protect from bunker busters, all of which to say this isn't going to be one fell swoop.

00:47:23.660 It's going to take multiple missions.

00:47:25.440 It's going to take multiple flights.

00:47:26.900 So you're talking potentially if each B-2 can carry – and these things are the size of a bus.

00:47:31.400 Okay, these bombs, massive, massive bombs.

00:47:33.360 And so if each one goes over, so you've got two in tandem, they're flying sorties over, potentially over.

00:47:41.660 Now let's pray to God that nothing happened, no malfunctions, no anti-aircraft fire comes at them.

00:47:49.480 Sure, they're going to be able to fly high enough for that, I assume.

00:47:52.040 But you've got to hit this thing dead on each time possibly ten strikes to get the job done.

00:47:58.440 And then there's real questions as to whether or not the technology is still just going to survive and really all you're going to do is set them back and you have to be back here in two years when President Trump is still president because they're going to be able to dig it out or reconstitute it somewhere else.

00:48:10.880 And so there's serious questions of, look, if you put in this much, that's why – that we're going to get sucked into a wider thing.

00:48:20.280 And that's what a lot of people are scratching their heads on.

00:48:22.900 And I'm sick, by the way, of this smear campaign, Steve, of people calling you an isolationist and calling all the MAGA isolationists and saying, oh, you're – no, no, excuse me.

00:48:33.620 We are America first populist nationalists.

00:48:37.260 Was President Trump an isolationist when he posed the Iraq war?

00:48:40.020 Was President Trump an isolationist when he said we need to get our troops out of harm's way in Syria where they're not doing anything, sitting there as human shields for all the chaos that's going on in the land?

00:48:48.260 As President Trump said, the land of blood and death.

00:48:51.200 No, he wasn't isolationist.

00:48:53.100 He was putting American interests first.

00:48:56.880 And because he understands, by the way, he's read history, right?

00:48:59.800 And, you know, Steve, these neocons, that's the problem.

00:49:01.440 They don't read any history.

00:49:02.700 They're not reading clouds.

00:49:03.400 They're not listening to the war room, not doing any of this stuff.

00:49:06.440 So they don't know about the danger of imperial overstretch because the danger of imperial overstretch is that you forget about the heartland.

00:49:15.620 You forget about your core population.

00:49:18.100 And the core population of the United States is hurting right now.

00:49:21.840 That's why President Trump is the president.

00:49:24.240 That's why we don't have Jeb Bush as the president.

00:49:26.640 Jeb Bush is now the president of, you know, the anti-Iran coalition over there, by the way.

00:49:31.300 It's like the band is getting back together over on that side.

00:49:33.880 Yeah, talk.

00:49:34.360 Hold on.

00:49:34.920 Hold on.

00:49:35.240 Take a second.

00:49:36.300 Take a second.

00:49:36.880 That was sent to us by the engine room.

00:49:39.980 Talk about Jeb Bush actually chairs a group, right?

00:49:43.580 Of course he is.

00:49:44.000 That's the anti-Iran coalition, sir.

00:49:48.100 Dave, let's go back to basics, all right?

00:49:50.780 The Bush family is an oil family. 0.79

00:49:53.240 They are oil men, right?

00:49:54.720 There will be blood.

00:49:55.540 The great film.

00:49:56.640 Paul Thomas, go watch that, right?

00:49:58.420 You understand the Bushes?

00:49:59.280 Go watch that. 0.71

00:49:59.860 They are still licking their chops, looking at the oil fields of Iran, saying, you know something?

00:50:06.680 We couldn't quite get all the oil out of Iraq, and so we go and look over at Iran, and you know what?

00:50:11.640 There's all that oil there, and, you know, we had access to it under the Shah, and then Mosegadeg came up, and he was trying to nationalize everything.

00:50:18.900 So we got rid of him, and we got a new Shah in. 1.00

00:50:20.780 But then these pesky little Islamists came up, and now we got kicked out again. 1.00

00:50:26.260 Well, first it was the British, and then we got kicked out as well because we tried to backfill the British because after the war, they couldn't. 0.58

00:50:31.140 These guys, Steve, they don't read any of the history.

00:50:33.880 They don't read any of the history.

00:50:35.120 They just say, you know what?

00:50:36.320 This means money for us, money, and power, and they don't look at the broader scope of things.

00:50:42.200 And here's something that somebody was saying to me earlier.

00:50:45.640 They said, oh, Jack, you're just pushing Iranian and Chinese narratives.

00:50:48.620 Excuse me, hold on a second.

00:50:50.100 Our carriers just dropped coverage in the South China Sea to go to CENTCOM, which means that China now has a free hand. 0.94

00:50:58.560 China is now operating more carriers in the South China Sea than the United States for the first time in history.

00:51:03.140 They got two, the Shandong and the Liaoning.

00:51:05.220 Then you got Russia.

00:51:06.540 They said, wait a minute.

00:51:07.500 Who has benefited by $150 barrel gas?

00:51:10.280 Well, that's Russia, a $150 barrel barrel.

00:51:13.420 Russia is benefited. 0.87

00:51:14.720 That fuels the coffers of the Kremlin to be able to ground and pound, as they've been doing, to the Ukrainian army.

00:51:22.340 So Putin's going to sit back and say, hey, don't do this, but if you want to put money in my pocket, I'm not going to stop you.

00:51:27.080 All right, that's what kicked off that whole thing with Nord Stream 2.

00:51:29.980 And so to these people that are looking at this saying, oh, oh, it's going to be good for America, good for America,

00:51:34.380 you're not looking at the wider scope of the consequences of your actions.

00:51:38.540 Jack, I know you've got to bounce.

00:51:42.180 You've got family obligations.

00:51:43.920 Hopefully we can grab you later in the afternoon if we do this live coverage.

00:51:48.080 We're working this through right now.

00:51:50.440 Where do people go, Jack, on your social media and your social media feeds?

00:51:55.380 Steve, I'm here.

00:51:56.080 I'm tracking it all.

00:51:56.840 Human Events Daily.

00:51:57.740 By the way, last night, Charlie Kirk and I put up a huge episode of Thought Crime.

00:52:01.400 I would encourage everyone to go check that out on my podcast, Apple, Spotify, and Charlie's as well,

00:52:06.060 where we got into all of this.

00:52:07.500 We got into every single piece of this, Book of Genesis, Ted Cruz, all the scripture, all the theology,

00:52:12.760 all the politics.

00:52:14.360 We've walked through chapter and verse, including the Bunker Busters,

00:52:17.760 and whether or not Fox News is telling you the truth about the physics on this.

00:52:22.840 Jack Posobiec, go with God today.

00:52:25.480 We'll see you this afternoon.

00:52:26.260 Tucker Carlson, Benny Johnson, the great Charlie Kirk, Jack Posobiec.

00:52:35.180 I'll toss a worm in there. 0.93

00:52:37.100 Folks done a pretty good job at making sure you got all the information so that you can,

00:52:43.100 in the fog of war, because there's a lot of fog out there, folks, that you can see clearly.

00:52:49.880 We're not going to let this be like the Iraq War.

00:52:52.140 We're not going to let all this cheerleading and the roses are going to be thrown down there.

00:52:54.800 We're going to give you a reality check.

00:52:56.820 Make sure you fully understand what we're getting into, because when we get into it,

00:53:00.620 we're going to have to see it through, right?

00:53:03.680 Right, Mr. Ben.

00:53:05.900 Short commercial break.

00:53:06.960 Back in a moment.

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Bannon's War Room - June 21, 2025

Episode 4577： Trump Returns To DC Today; Israel Stands To Have No Air Capability In The War

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