Matthew Goodwin joins us in the War Room to discuss President Trump's trip to Scotland and his comments on immigration and trade. President Trump is on a working vacation in Scotland and is in the midst of a state visit to Scotland.
00:03:00.000And Matthew is, I think, one of the leading thinkers about populist nationalism, written books, articles,
00:03:10.000I guess formerly an academic or think tank but now a practitioner.
00:03:14.000Matthew, I want to talk about the poll and about Nigel, but I got to talk about, I want to start with President Trump's trip
00:03:20.000because we're talking about Brexit and, you know, Trump, we were very involved in the Brexit situation.
00:03:24.000And then President Trump, you know, we always said that's the predicate in June of 16 for the Trump revolution that took place in November.
00:03:33.000President Trump puts him on notice yesterday.
00:03:36.000He says, hey, look, we're here to talk trade and, you know, the EU head's going to come over and I'm going to meet with Starmer.
00:03:41.000But you guys got to get your act together on mass migration before it's too late.
00:03:46.000Are you going to lose your countries? Are you going to lose Europe?
00:03:48.000Can you give us a sense in the summer of 25 where we really stand with kind of populist nationalism throughout Europe,
00:03:57.000particularly in the United Kingdom, but also the fundamental issues that President Trump's looking at when he comes over for this weekend, sir?
00:04:04.000Well, absolutely. And, Steve, firstly, thanks for having me on.
00:04:07.000I remember about 10 years ago you and I were starting to talk about this political revolution.
00:04:14.000And ever since then, you know, with some stops and starts, but ever since then it's basically accelerated.
00:04:21.000Look, what President Trump has said today as he stepped off Air Force One and he said, look, Europe, you know, you're losing yourself by not controlling immigration.
00:04:31.000There might not be a Europe left. That's what President Trump said today.
00:04:35.000And it struck a very loud chord here in Europe because wherever you look, whether it's Georgia Maloney in Italy, whether it's Marine Le Pen and Jordan Bardella in France,
00:04:46.000whether it's Nigel French in the UK, whether it's the alternative for Germany, you know, Europe is now going through its own Trumpian moment with anti-immigration, anti-elite, pro-nation movements really doing as well as they've ever done before.
00:05:08.000I mean, if you look at all of the polling across Europe, a lot of these movements are reaching highs that would have been thought, you know, unthinkable in the early 2010s.
00:05:18.000I've just come back from Hungary where, you know, obviously Viktor Orban there has pushed back against this relentless social liberalism in Brussels.
00:05:28.000But, you know, in Austria, the Freedom Party has never been stronger.
00:05:33.000And in the UK, remarkably, Nigel Farage, 34 percent in the national in the national polls.
00:05:39.000And this is all because of mass migration, Steve. You know, I put out a video this morning.
00:05:43.000I said President Trump is right for two reasons when he says Europe is killing itself.
00:05:48.000He's right because economically the evidence is all there.
00:05:51.000The kind of migration that's coming into Europe. I give you one stat.
00:05:55.00030 million people have come into Europe over the last decade alone, both legally and illegally.
00:06:02.000And we know that a lot of those folks were low skill, low wage, low levels of education.
00:06:07.000So we know that mass migration has been undermining the economic prosperity of Europe.
00:06:13.000But secondly, and I think more importantly, and this is what President Trump, I think, was alluding to, it's undermining the culture of Europe, too.
00:06:22.000And some of your viewers and listeners will will will know this name.
00:06:25.000But the English philosopher Roger Scruton once said that the nation is not just a legal document.
00:06:32.000A nation is not just a piece of territory. A nation is built on a shared culture, a shared identity, a shared language, a shared religion.
00:06:43.000And it's that cultural inheritance, argued Roger Scruton, that ultimately is what makes a nation.
00:06:52.000And I think wherever you look in Europe, there is this sense, Steve, that we're at this civilizational moment that actually that that sense of who we are, that shared culture is being rapidly undermined by the scale of mass migration.
00:07:09.000Because as Scruton said, you know, if you if you lose that sense of cultural unity, you don't have loyalty anymore.
00:07:16.000All you have are a series of empty transactions. You don't have a nation. You don't have a we.
00:07:22.000It's a bit like living in a one star motel where you don't know who's living next to you.
00:07:27.000And I think Europeans are very aware of that. I think they're watching the Trump experiment very closely.
00:07:33.000I think they've taken part from the collapse in the number of border crossings for us in the UK.
00:07:39.000We've got a border crisis. What President Trump is doing is incredibly important because it gives us proof of concept when we say, look, we want to deport these guys.
00:07:48.000We've got one hundred and seventy thousand mainly young Islamic men coming into the UK on the small boats entering our country illegally.
00:07:55.000And when me and Nigel Farage and others are saying, let's detain these guys, let deport, let's deport these guys.
00:08:01.000People in Westminster say, well, you can't do that. Well, now we can say, well, President Trump's done it.
00:08:06.000And that proof of concept is really important for people here here in Europe.
00:08:13.000Here's here's here's the I think what it's so shocking.
00:08:18.000Your two points you made, it's self-evident from the receipts, from the evidence itself.
00:08:23.000Right. How this has crushed people, you know, the 30 million have driven down wages and culturally is made a mess.
00:08:30.000We're looking in Italy or in France or in England or in Ireland.
00:08:35.000But the people at the top are the fruit of the system.
00:08:41.000For instance, there's a book called, I think, Chums that talks about Oxford and I think what, 13 of the last 15 or postwar.
00:08:49.000I mean, if you look at Westminster, you look at the people that control British society still, they're the elite.
00:08:55.000They're the elite of the elite are the sons and daughters of the elites.
00:08:58.000They go to the best universities. They're very they're very, you know, pampered and offset from the reality of of the lived experience of working class people.
00:09:10.000How could they, in looking at this evidence, because they're smart enough, continue not just to they are in a fight and literally a knife fight with populist nationalists, whether that's alternative for Germany, whether it's Orban, whether it's Le Pen and Front National, whether it's the rise, the meteoric rise of Nigel Farage Party.
00:09:32.000The elites are dug in more than they've ever dug dug in.
00:09:35.000So explain to the American people, why is are the European elites country by country in this death struggle with a populist nationalist movement that actually has the evidence on their side of how their policies are destroying their own nations, sir?
00:09:50.000Well, I remember reading a book by a very disgruntled leftist named Christopher Lash in the early 1990s.
00:09:59.000He was a disillusioned academic a bit like myself and what Christopher Lash predicted, you know, a good 20 years before the Trump revolt.
00:10:08.000He said the next big revolution in politics will not be the masses rising up against the elites, but the elites rising up against the masses.
00:10:16.000And he argued they would use censorship, they would use speech codes, you know, they would use everything within their disposal to shut down public dissent, to try and control the people.
00:10:29.000And what's becoming evident in the UK and elsewhere in Europe is that top down project, that elite project is collapsing around us.
00:10:38.000Steve, as you and I are talking now, there are spontaneous protests taking place up and down England in pretty middle of the road places, fly over towns in places like Epping in Essex, places like Norfolk, places like Glasgow,
00:10:56.000Glasgow, where ordinary mums, dads and grandparents are now hitting the streets, which is a big thing to say in British politics because the Brits historically don't really do street protests like the French and the Italians,
00:11:08.000but because they are so fed up with what the elite class has been imposing on them top down, which is mass uncontrolled immigration, unvetted migration, broken borders, not to mention woke ideology.
00:11:21.000So this thing is getting a speed and a scale that the elite class is not ready for.
00:11:28.000The answer, I think, Steve, is very similar to what happened in the US.
00:11:33.000We have had in this country a Tory elite class, which reminds me of what you guys might call the Mitt Romney Republicans.
00:11:40.000These guys have controlled the system for decades. Now, there were some good people that were pushed to the forefront, Margaret Thatcher being the most obvious.
00:11:49.000But many of these guys pass through Oxford, pass through Cambridge. They're in this for themselves.
00:11:55.000They're not in this for the country. They're in this for social status. They're in this to accumulate power for themselves and their friends.
00:12:03.000And what Nigel Farage and this reform movement have realized, the sort of alternative party now, is that actually that elite class has fundamentally misread the mood of the nation.
00:12:15.000We are basically saying we want an end to mass uncontrolled immigration. We want to leave things like the European Convention on Human Rights.
00:12:23.000We don't want international courts telling us who we can let into our country and who we who who we have to keep in our country.
00:12:32.000We want an end to this net zero green madness, which has prevented us from investing in our own energy.
00:12:38.000We want an end to woke ideology. We want to take on Islamism and make sure that it doesn't become as entrenched as it is in some countries like France,
00:12:47.000where basically the Muslim Brotherhood has become a sort of Trojan horse within the state.
00:12:52.000And we want to reassert our independence. We want to reassert our national sovereignty.
00:12:57.000And I think the reason Nigel Farage and reform are now number one in the national polls, 34 percent, which is remarkable, is they are tapping into the same thing that President Trump did.
00:13:09.000An elite class has moved so far to the left, has been in it for itself, lost touch with the people, that you've now got this enormous space that's opened up for somebody like Nigel Farage,
00:13:20.000like the reform parties to stand up and say, you know what, actually, we're going to reassert the voice of the people.
00:13:26.000We're going to control our borders. The first thing, you know, for example, this week, Steve, we're having a big discussion about crime.
00:13:32.000Any of your viewers, your listeners, lots of Americans come to London over the summer.
00:13:37.000They will all have seen the lawlessness that is taking place in London.
00:13:41.000Phones are being stolen every day. Gangs are running riot.
00:13:45.000People have been, you know, stabbed to death for their Rolex watches.
00:13:48.000And Nigel's come out this week and he said, you know what?
00:13:51.000It's time to bring back tough on crime.
00:13:53.000We're going to have more police officers.
00:13:55.000We're going to put drug dealers into prison for the rest of their lives.
00:13:58.000We're going to start sending the bad guys, the worst of the bad guys out to El Salvador.
00:14:02.000And we're going to start reestablishing some basic law and order.
00:14:05.000Little things like that, Steve, because if the state cannot, as Cicero said,
00:14:10.000if the state cannot perform its most basic duty of looking after its own people, then the state will not survive.
00:14:19.000And what we're living through in the UK is a state that is no longer performing its most basic duty, which is to look after its own people.
00:15:12.000It just cannot keep up with that demand.
00:15:14.000I don't know about you, but I don't like the idea of being without power even for a day.
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00:16:56.000I thought Brexit was supposed to solve that, sir.
00:16:59.000Well, Brexit was about what the people wanted.
00:17:03.000And the people said loudly, we want to live in an independent, self-governing, sovereign nation which controls its own borders and has lower immigration.
00:17:11.000So the people told the elites what they wanted.
00:17:14.000This is the story of Great Britain that we want to see.
00:17:17.000And what happened after that vote in 2016 is the elite class refused to listen to that.
00:17:23.000And we had Boris Johnson, especially part of the Tory elite, the so-called conservative elite, who won an enormous victory in 2019 when people said, look, just get this thing done.
00:17:35.000And that's what Brexit done. Boris Johnson won that big majority pretending to be a sort of Churchillian conservative, presenting himself like Winston Churchill.
00:17:45.000But what Boris Johnson then did is he opened the floodgates to mass uncontrolled immigration, even more immigration than we had before Brexit.
00:17:54.000And all of it, Steve, coming from outside of Europe.
00:17:57.000Here's one statistic I want every American to think about.
00:18:01.00081% of all immigration into the UK today comes from outside of Europe, comes from Pakistan, Nigeria, China, Eritrea, Afghanistan, Iraq.
00:18:13.000How can you how can you maintain a nation that is experiencing that kind of cultural, religious demographic change?
00:18:22.000So, you know, after COVID and the lockdowns, which, again, presided over by the elite class, Nigel, I've known him a long time, 15 years.
00:18:31.000I could sense he was just getting more and more frustrated with this thing.
00:18:35.000And then last year, 2024, we had this big general election and he said, you know what, I got to come back.
00:18:41.000I got to finish this project. And the moment he did his new party reform just exploded in the polls.
00:18:48.000Now up to 34% of the vote. Why is it doing so well, Steve?
00:18:52.000It's now winning over more than half of all those people who voted for Brexit.
00:18:56.000All those people who said, hey, elites, are you listening to us?
00:19:00.000We want less immigration. We want border control.
00:19:03.000We don't want London and financial services getting everything.
00:19:06.000We don't want to sell off our traditional industry, our steel and our coal in the name of this crazy green net zero project.
00:19:14.000And they weren't listening to the people.
00:19:16.000So now the people are taking back control of the system and they're pushing reform forward like they push Brexit forward.
00:19:23.000And I think this is what separates national populism in my mind from the established class.
00:19:28.000I think just two principles. One is national populists believe that the true source of power, authority and legitimacy are the people.
00:19:37.000That makes them different from the elite class because the elites believe the true source of power, authority and legitimacy lies with other elites like them.
00:19:46.000But the second key principle which Nigel recognizes and President Trump recognizes is we believe in the principle of national preference.
00:19:53.000We believe that in everything from the economy to housing to borders, it is your own people tax paying citizens who should be prioritized.
00:20:04.000We don't think all cultures are equal. We don't think everybody around the world is the same.
00:20:09.000We don't want to buy into this globalist mush. We believe there is a distinctive, unique nation that should be preserved and should be protected.
00:20:18.000And I think Nigel understands the power of that, which is why he's now leading in the polls.
00:20:23.000And all the bookmakers, you know, the betting companies, Steve, they say if there was an election tomorrow, odds on Nigel Farage will be the next prime minister.
00:20:32.000So this is going to be another unbelievable chapter in this ongoing story, which is ultimately about the people saying we want our country back.
00:20:44.000We want it back from this elite class. We want it back from mass immigration. We want it back from the globalists.
00:20:50.000We want it back from Brussels. You know, we want it for ourselves and our families and our children.
00:20:55.000And until the elite class get that and start making compromises with the people, they're going to be blown away.
00:21:01.000And that's what's going to happen, I think, at the next general election.
00:21:04.000And you have an announcement, too. I take it you're now in the you're going to the into the trenches to the front lines of this.
00:21:12.000Well, Steve, let me say I spent 20 years in the universities.
00:21:16.000I became the youngest professor in the UK the age of 33 as a political scientist.
00:21:23.000And I think you get to a point in your life where you look around and you say, am I actually just going to write about this or am I going to try and do something to save my country?
00:21:33.000And over the last 12 months, I've come to the view looking at this disaster of mass uncontrolled immigration, which is which is exactly what it is.
00:21:42.000It's a disaster. Looking at the contempt with which the elites in Westminster hold their own people, which has been appalling to me.
00:21:52.000I come from a working class background. I'm not like these guys. I didn't go to Oxford.
00:21:56.000I didn't go to Cambridge. And I've seen and heard how they talk about the ordinary people behind closed doors.
00:22:03.000And it's it's worse than people think. And I said, OK, I've got to put my head above the parapet.
00:22:07.000I've got to get involved. So I'm going around the country. I'm speaking at branches.
00:22:11.000I'm speaking at meetings. You know, we're building a massive community on all of the social media, you know, that we've got Facebook, Instagram, TikTok and X.
00:22:20.000And I said to Nigel very clearly and directly, like, I'm at your service.
00:22:23.000You want to put me in at the next election? Let's go. Let's let's take back our country.
00:22:29.000Matthew, how do people get to you on social media, how they get to your site, all your writing, sir?
00:22:36.000Yeah, so I actually have the biggest politics newsletter in the UK on Substack at MattGoodwin.org.
00:22:41.000We've got over 82,000 people who are all hungry for change.
00:22:45.000We give you all the evidence and the information that you need to critique mass immigration.
00:22:50.000It's it's all based on evidence. It's all based on reliable information.
00:22:53.000We're not misleading people. We are just telling them what on Earth is going on in what was once upon a time one of the greatest nations on Earth, one of the greatest civilizations, because people can't trust legacy media anymore.
00:23:05.000And we're giving them the truth and we're helping them to plan, helping them to campaign and building this new ecosystem that I think is going to ultimately help Nigel get into number 10 Downing Street.
00:23:15.000And I think that's the crucial first step to taking back our country.
00:23:18.000And the last thing I would say, Steve, while I'm on is you guys completely called this.
00:23:22.000I remember both yourself and Raheem, Raheem Kassan more than 10 years ago saying this is where it's going to go.
00:23:31.000And here we are 2025. And you guys were absolutely on the money. So kudos to you guys.
00:23:37.000Matthew, thank you so much. Your original book on that is outstanding.
00:23:42.000We'll make sure audience gets everything. How do they get they go to Substack and and they can subscribe to your Substack?
00:23:49.000That's right. Matt Goodwin dot org. Just Google me.
00:23:52.000They'll find it and come on board if you're interested in what's going on in Europe.
00:23:56.000We'll tell you all the craziness is going on, the attacks on free speech, you know, this new definition of Islamophobia that our government is trying to impose on us.
00:24:05.000So we can't debate Islam. We can't criticize Islam.
00:24:09.000If you're out there and you're interested in the countercultural perspective, you know, get involved.
00:24:14.000And we're learning from America. So, you know, I'd say to all of your viewers and listeners, if you think there are things we can learn from the Trump take back, let us know.
00:24:24.000Because, you know, this movement's going into government, Steve.
00:24:27.000I mean, Nigel Farage is going into government and the state.
00:24:31.000And I said this to him, the state is going to launch a war on Nigel Farage and reform.
00:24:37.000So anything we can learn from the differences between Trump one and Trump two, anything we can learn about how you take on the state and how you can root out, you know, the swamp and all the rest of it.
00:24:49.000So, you know, anyone out there with useful tips, just get them to me.
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00:29:00.000This is Jim's flagship financial newsletter, Strategic Intelligence.
00:30:32.000Firstly, just to recap what President Trump said this morning on his flight over.
00:30:38.000On immigration, you better get your act together.
00:30:41.000You're not going to have Europe anymore.
00:30:44.000And that is an absolute throw down to Ursula von der Leyen, who's flying out there to meet POTUS in Scotland.
00:30:50.000And as Matt Goodwin was saying, Europe, specifically the UK, is taking inspiration from the fact that the most powerful, economically powerful, culturally powerful, militarily powerful nation in the history of mankind is sending people back.
00:31:13.000And when the United States does that, when it actually embarks on forced repatriations, it basically throws great difficulty in the performative center right political spectrum because words are no longer satisfactory.
00:31:30.000Right. If Donald Trump is actually sending people back, then, you know, and you saw you see this definitely in the UK, less so in Italy, because there still isn't a credible alternative to Georgia Maloney.
00:31:44.000But they're just the words that, you know, we need to have stronger controls and, you know, we need to take people's concerns into consideration.
00:31:51.000It's not going to do the trick. And here's the thing, Steve, about the UK.
00:31:54.000And as you say, the Tory party is the world's oldest political party.
00:32:00.000And it's a recent generation and a half its political leadership really has driven that party into the ground.
00:32:10.000You mentioned Boris Johnson. I still to this day have a small residue of affection for that guy.
00:32:16.000But when was the last time we saw political leadership in the Tory party fight for the UK's interests with the intensity and passion that Boris Johnson fought for Ukraine?
00:32:33.000That's right. That's why the Tory party is imploding, because they can't even pretend to care about the people whose votes are hemorrhaging away to Nigel Farage and reform.
00:32:45.000Let me repeat that. When was the last time in the UK a conservative leader fought for the British interests with the passion and dedication that Boris Johnson fought for Zelensky and the Zelensky regime in Ukraine?
00:33:04.000And you'd really need to go back to the days of Margaret Thatcher.
00:33:08.000And that's why you see the poll flip that you see that that came out two days ago.
00:33:13.000That's why it's why reform is on 34 percent, because Nigel Farage has been absolutely consistent.
00:33:21.000It's a guy I first met in 1999, 1998, actually, when he was first running for his seat in the European Parliament.
00:33:30.000He has said the same thing. In fact, you can look at a Nigel Farage speech.
00:33:34.000You wouldn't know by looking at the speech when it was said, because he's been so consistent.
00:33:41.000And if there's one thing you can say about the British people is that they are they are fair.
00:33:46.000They may be weak occasionally. They may not come out and burn tractors and what have you on the road like the French do.
00:33:54.000But if it's one attribute that you that you can say in favour of the British that they are fair and they respect being fair, they respect Nigel Farage's integrity and his coherence.
00:34:06.000And the polls are finally starting to show that as as Matt Goodwin said in the last segment, if there were an election today, Nigel Farage would win that.
00:34:17.000And that's right. That's absolutely right. Because, you know, it's the same thing that we were discussing just a few days ago in Japan with that San Heito political party.
00:34:27.000People are getting, you know, they're beyond fed up that actually say difficult to get someone to change political affiliation, but it's actually happening.
00:34:35.000It's happening right around the world. Drawing inspiration from the United States, because people are not not that they fed up, they will no longer tolerate the performative going through the motions of the central right political establishment.
00:34:50.000And the UK is going to be the next to fall. The lesson for us and this gets from Tulsi's conspiracy, this Epstein thing is that you had Brexit nine years ago and it's actually could argue it's worse today.
00:35:08.000Right. Don't get me wrong. You've gotten your sovereignty back to a degree, but the elites have refused to implement it.
00:35:13.000Is that a lesson for the United States? This is why we must take on the deep state.
00:35:17.000I mean, we don't have a choice if we don't do that, if you don't break that, all the tax cuts, everything we've done, it's just going to be unwound over time. Sir, your observations.
00:35:27.000What did the Tory party do when David Cameron, the then prime minister who called that referendum?
00:35:33.000What did the Tory party do when David Cameron resigned as prime minister in order to deal with the fallout of Brexit?
00:35:46.000They handed the party over to Theresa May, who campaigned to remain.
00:35:55.000That is in your face contempt for a political party to its public.
00:36:03.000The Tory party loses a referendum, right? The British, I think it was about 50, 53, 47.
00:36:10.000It was a clear, decisive result. And the Tory party, David Cameron resigned.
00:36:15.000And the next day, the next prime minister is Theresa May, who campaigned to remain.
00:36:21.000That is one of the reasons to this day. You know, they tried to, Steve, the point is they tried to sabotage, the Tory party tried to sabotage the effectiveness, the opportunities of Brexit from day one.
00:36:35.000And the British people stood there. And, you know, you say it hasn't, you say Brexit hasn't been implemented to the best of the potential that's there.
00:36:46.000And that's absolutely true. And that's deliberate as absolutely deliberate.
00:36:50.000And you see the signs from the political leadership of both political parties sort of dropping hints occasionally about, you know, perhaps we should go back in.
00:36:58.000That is one thing that the British public to this day are adamant they do not want to see, even if it has been painful for the UK.
00:37:06.000And even if the British Tory party has tried, had tried when it was in power to sabotage that result.
00:37:12.000The British public are absolutely adamant they do not want to go back into the European Union.
00:37:18.000So we need a political party that is going to make the best out of independence and the nationalist integrity that being outside of the Union affords.
00:37:31.000Because, you know, I voted for Brexit. I haven't had a scintilla of regret over that, but it has been a painful experience for the UK.
00:37:40.000There are some advantages to being inside the European Union. For a country like the UK, the advantages of being out vastly supersede the advantages of being in the Union.
00:37:53.000But there are certain advantages of being in the European Union.
00:37:56.000We need a political party as a government, like Reform UK, led by someone like Nigel Farage, to draw out those advantages so that the working class, the middle class of the UK can start to perceive the benefits that being outside of that Union afford.
00:38:15.000Because the whole grifting political class is dependent, you know, it was brilliant for the Steve Brexit, because above all the elected opportunity you had in Parliament, if you lost your seat, if you were thrown out by the electorate, the general electorate, you could then go kissing up and try and get an even bigger grift going by getting yourself elected to Brussels.
00:38:38.000A sign a cure there, of which, of which all the benefits and the kilometrage and everything vastly exceed the grift available to an ordinary backbench Member of Parliament.
00:38:51.440It was their insurance opportunity. You had the opportunities for the civil service to go out to Brussels, to Strasbourg, to Luxembourg, where they paid 10% income tax.
00:39:03.360And it was great for the political class, because if they got kicked out, they had an insurance ticket to play.
00:39:11.520The only people who didn't benefit out of it were the taxpaying prits outside of the political system, who had no interest in joining that racket, because they just wanted to work decent jobs and get on with their lives and prosper and pass something on, a better future to their kids.
00:39:30.580Right. So you have all the elites coming together and plotting against the British people.
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00:45:18.460President Trump has a deep love for golf, but he also has a deep love for classic golf architecture.
00:45:24.720He owns Doral, Bedminster, just some great venues in the United States.
00:45:28.880But the ones in Scotland, not just his family, but he has a great love for the beginning of the game.
00:45:33.900And he's put a tremendous amount of money.
00:45:35.760Turnberry was essentially bankrupt when he came in.
00:45:38.980Why is the role in Ancient taking a great venue like Turnberry that Donald Trump's put a ton of money in to refurbish and bring it back to its greatness?
00:45:47.220Why is it still not in the rota of the Open Championship, sir?
00:45:50.480Well, most architecture aficionados will tell you that of the courses on the open rota, Turnberry is right up there as one of the best, you know, right with St. Andrews and maybe Mirafield.
00:46:03.580Architecturally speaking, and from a strategic and the challenging standpoint, it's a fantastic venue.
00:46:08.940But when Trump acquired the property in 2014, and yeah, as you mentioned, he invested a bunch of capital to rehab it, and it's absolutely fantastic.
00:46:18.680Everybody raves about the changes he made.
00:46:21.220But then, you know, he began his political career in 2015, and then we know the rest.
00:46:26.340So the R&A, the Royal and Ancient, their position pre-2020 was that they weren't comfortable hosting an open there because they thought the focus would be on the owner and not the golf.
00:47:33.260And then earlier this year, like, I think in January, February, the new chief of the R&A, he said – he sort of eased off of that position.
00:47:42.960He said, well, you know, it may return, but it's not going to be returning anytime soon.
00:47:47.560Fast forward a few months, and now they've, I think, announced – I think it's public knowledge that they've been in conversations with the Trump organization.
00:47:54.780And my sources on the ground tell me that these are high-level conversations, and the open will return there eventually.
00:48:03.680And my guess is that there's a chance –
00:48:16.840Your high-level sources are telling you that they're open – the royal nation are open to have Trump – with Trump's ownership, bring Turnberry back into the open rota?
00:48:29.440Enough people in the golf world – and I spend a good amount of time over in the UK and Scotland and England – they're fed up with the politicization of golf.
00:48:37.200You know, it shouldn't be politicized, and the RNA has really dipped their toe into politics, and they're kind of tired of it.
00:48:43.060And these are people that – I don't know their political stances, but they're just tired of the politicization, and they want golf – they want their greatest championship, arguably one of the greatest, most important sporting events on the global stage,
00:48:57.400And so they've heard enough backlash, and they know that there's a demand to host it back at Turnberry.
00:49:04.100And they're in high-level talks right now with the Trump organization to bring it back.
00:49:08.300My guess is it may happen in 2028 or 2029.
00:49:11.680I mean, it would be pretty good for President Trump.
00:49:13.780You know, he always likes to talk about how he's got the World Cup in 2026, you know, the semi-quincentennial, the American 150th, and then the Olympics in 2028.
00:49:22.720And so to have the open, let's say, in 28 or maybe 29.
00:49:27.640I'd like it in 29 because it would be the first summer of his third term.
00:49:33.240Josh, where do people go on social media?
00:49:34.780We're going to have you back Monday to talk about President Trump's – he'll be at his other courses in Scotland, his new ones on Monday.
00:49:55.480Everybody, let's pile into that today because Josh keeps the flame going from one of the greatest architects from Scotland, one of the greatest golf architects in the world, the man who made so many great courses, including Augusta National, which is very close to President Trump's heart.
00:50:31.120I mean just – and you saw the turnout for him of the people.
00:50:35.780This is why President Trump is a world historical figure, General Washington, Abraham Lincoln, and Donald John Trump.
00:50:43.060Whether you like it or not, you're living in the age of Trump.
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