Bannon's War Room - Episode 4965： WarRoom Special： A One On One With The Vice President Of Taiwan

00:00:00.000 This is the primal scream of a dying regime.

00:00:07.000 Pray for our enemies.

00:00:09.000 Because we're going medieval on these people.

00:00:12.000 I got a free shot at all these networks lying about the people.

00:00:17.000 The people have had a belly full of it.

00:00:19.000 I know you don't like hearing that.

00:00:20.000 I know you try to do everything in the world to stop that,

00:00:22.000 but you're not going to stop it.

00:00:23.000 It's going to happen.

00:00:24.000 And where do people like that go to share the big lie?

00:00:27.000 Mega Media.

00:00:29.000 I wish in my soul, I wish that any of these people had a conscience.

00:00:34.000 Ask yourself, what is my task and what is my purpose?

00:00:38.000 If that answer is to save my country, this country will be saved.

00:00:44.000 War Room.

00:00:45.000 Here's your host, Stephen K. Banff.

00:00:52.000 You're in the War Room.

00:00:53.000 It's Monday, December 1st in the year of our Lord, 2025.

00:00:57.000 Natalie Winters hosting today with, I want to say, a very special edition of War Room

00:01:02.000 coming at you, actually pre-recorded from Taiwan.

00:01:06.000 I had the honor and privilege to interview the vice president of that wonderful country

00:01:10.000 not too long ago.

00:01:12.000 We're airing it here on War Room for the first time this evening.

00:01:15.000 I had the privilege to meet so many wonderful Taiwanese who are engaged in politics and other areas.

00:01:21.000 And I really think there is a natural affinity, not just with the MAGA movement, but with this audience,

00:01:26.000 particularly when it comes to grassroots and fighting for a cause that you believe in,

00:01:31.000 which is, of course, the prevailing West, democracy, freedom, all the values that we cherish,

00:01:36.000 over the Chinese Communist Party, over communism, writ large.

00:01:41.000 And I was really inspired to see the strength and the courage,

00:01:45.000 not backing down to any intimidation from Beijing,

00:01:49.000 that really, I think, rests in the hearts of all Taiwanese people.

00:01:52.000 A quick disclaimer, I know it's sad in this media landscape that I have to say this,

00:01:56.000 but I paid for this trip myself.

00:01:58.000 I was not offered any, you know, free trips or payments in exchange for favorable coverage.

00:02:05.000 I gave what I think was a very fair but hard-hitting interview,

00:02:08.000 answering all the questions that I'm sure you guys have,

00:02:11.000 not just about what it's like living on the front lines against Chinese Communist Party aggression,

00:02:15.000 but what American involvement looks like and what it should look like,

00:02:19.000 depending on what happens in a country that really, like I said,

00:02:22.000 is on the front lines of deciding every day what history and the future looks like.

00:02:27.000 I hope you guys enjoy this interview.

00:02:28.000 And again, thank you to the Vice President of Taiwan for giving me the chance to interview you.

00:02:32.000 I hope you guys enjoy.

00:02:35.000 Madam Vice President, thank you for sitting down with me today

00:02:38.000 and for such wonderful hospitality here in your beautiful country.

00:02:42.000 Taiwan's strength and determination on the world stage has captured global attention in your leadership.

00:02:48.000 is central to that story.

00:02:51.000 I'm grateful for the opportunity, not just to be here, but to witness firsthand the resilience and bravery of the Taiwanese people

00:02:58.000 in standing up to aggression from the Chinese Communist Party.

00:03:03.000 Yes, well, it's important that the American people also understand.

00:03:08.000 Although we live in a very complicated geopolitical environment,

00:03:13.000 the Taiwanese people are adamant about defending our freedom and protecting our society.

00:03:19.000 And I know Americans, you know, you look at your culture in the context of the land of the free and the home of the brave.

00:03:27.000 And although we have a very different history, I think a lot of Taiwanese also see ourselves and our island as island of the free and the home of the brave.

00:03:37.000 Many people fought to bring about the freedoms that you see in our society and the prosperity that has been delivered to the people.

00:03:46.000 The diligence of our society and the strength especially of our civil society and open government,

00:03:55.000 I think all of these have contributed to what you see today in Taiwan.

00:03:58.000 And you certainly are a testament to that.

00:04:01.000 I want our audience to understand you better.

00:04:04.000 Can you take us to a single day that quietly changed the course of your life in public service?

00:04:09.000 What did you see?

00:04:10.000 What did you feel?

00:04:11.000 What did you hear?

00:04:12.000 Yes.

00:04:13.000 Well, when you're in public service, there are just so many ups and downs that it's hard to qualify everything in a single day.

00:04:18.000 But let me bring you back to the 1990s because that was a very important period in Taiwan's democratic transformation.

00:04:27.000 And we had just ended 37 years of martial law, you know, one party authoritarian rule in Taiwan.

00:04:34.000 And we were in the process of transition.

00:04:36.000 You know, I was a young student and, you know, actually, you know, studying.

00:04:42.000 I thought I would do a PhD, but I just got so distracted by a lot of things going on and all the changes happening.

00:04:50.000 I was studying in the United States and eventually went to work for Taiwan's leading opposition party at the time,

00:04:59.000 which was the party that really fought for democracy and freedom in Taiwan.

00:05:04.000 But in 1996, Taiwan was having our very first ever presidential election.

00:05:11.000 Now, that's a big moment for a young democracy, for a transition.

00:05:17.000 And China found that offensive and decided to conduct missile tests and exercises in the vicinity of Taiwan's coastal area and in the Taiwan Strait.

00:05:28.000 You know, and as a young person living in the United States, I was looking at this and I thought,

00:05:33.000 look, I don't want to spend the rest of my youth in the library of Columbia University.

00:05:40.000 And I want to, you know, come back and be part of change and defending Taiwan where I grew up.

00:05:47.000 And so, you know, it was around that time I made a decision to come back and started to get involved in political life here in Taiwan.

00:05:59.000 And I think for a lot of people that was also a turning point in terms of the way we see our identity.

00:06:07.000 And that is, you know, Taiwan's identity, it's not just, it's not an ethnic identity.

00:06:13.000 It's about, it's a civic identity.

00:06:15.000 It's about the fact that we can have elections, choose our own leadership, choose our own form of government.

00:06:21.000 It's about that power, you know, empowering the people to decide our own future.

00:06:26.000 And it's about the determination to resist forms of coercion, such as the military, the missile tests or the exercises that China conducted in an attempt to instill fear in our people.

00:06:40.000 And I think that that was also the beginning of a very vibrant and robust democracy.

00:06:47.000 And I'm just so, so honored that I was able to be part of that.

00:06:51.000 And I was of a generation kind of, you know, in between, you know, the excitement was that we were in transition.

00:06:57.000 We were seeing change.

00:06:58.000 We were seeing Taiwan transform from a one party dictatorship into an open, competitive, vibrant, robust democracy.

00:07:07.000 But at the same time, I wasn't old enough to have to endure the pains of martial law.

00:07:12.000 And that is, you know, a decade ago, people were jailed, imprisoned, or even disappeared or murdered for their political beliefs and for advocating basic human rights.

00:07:23.000 And I came at an age when Taiwan was already in the process of transformation.

00:07:29.000 And so I did not have to endure those early dangers of my predecessors.

00:07:35.000 But it does remind me that, again, freedom is not free.

00:07:39.000 And it's generation after generation.

00:07:42.000 It requires a lot of work.

00:07:44.000 It requires a lot of activism to defend what is so meaningful and to cherish what we have.

00:07:51.000 And on this idea of standing up to fear, my audience, I think, deeply understands the existential threat that is posed by the Chinese Communist Party against free and open societies, our countries alike. 0.82

00:08:05.000 And given Taiwan's own very personal and long experience of confronting that challenge, could you speak to these sort of shared values and cultural principles that really link our societies?

00:08:16.000 Well, I think, as I said in the outset, you know, the way we see American values in the context of, you know, you being a country, the land of the free and the home of the brave.

00:08:29.000 And I think from our perspective, we fully understand.

00:08:33.000 And within our generation, we have endured different types of political systems.

00:08:37.000 And our partnership is based on our shared values.

00:08:43.000 And that is, you know, freedom and a democratic form of government.

00:08:47.000 And also, you know, beyond values, it's about interests.

00:08:51.000 It's about our shared interests in preserving the peace and stability in the Indo-Pacific region.

00:08:57.000 It's about our shared interests in upholding rules-based international order, where the freedom of navigation, where trade, and where societies interact with each other without force or coercion.

00:09:10.000 And it's also about our shared interests in prosperity, in developing technology that is not compromised for their privacy, developing technology that advances humanity rather than as tools of control by government.

00:09:28.000 And so I think we just have so much in common, again, although we have different histories.

00:09:34.000 But I do want to highlight one aspect of our history.

00:09:37.000 And that is, like the American people, you know, the people in Taiwan have come here over generations to build a good life, to find a good life, and to participate in creating opportunities for future generations.

00:09:56.000 And I think that spirit of diligence, of pioneering, of building, and I think that is also a very, very important kind of stream of values.

00:10:11.000 That's part of who we are.

00:10:14.000 And finally, I want to highlight the fact of our civil society.

00:10:18.000 And that is, when you look at different countries, you know, you kind of, sometimes you look at the form of government or what their states do.

00:10:24.000 But I think the strength of Taiwan and the United States is also in the strength of our private sector and in our society, in our civil society, the innovation, the openness, the friendliness, the generosity, the hospitality.

00:10:40.000 You know, all of that makes Taiwan a force for good in the world.

00:10:44.000 And I think a lot of Taiwanese people have also seen the United States as a leader, as a force for good, too.

00:10:51.000 And we aspire to be also a force for good in the world.

00:10:55.000 Well, I think these shared values are wonderful, but there also is, of course, a shared reality.

00:11:00.000 And I'm curious to get your thoughts of how close are we or what the landscape looks like at the point where hybrid warfare, cyber information, psychological attacks, and other ways have become just as destructive as, you know, potential kinetic conflict.

00:11:16.000 Yes, well, I think this is a very sober situation.

00:11:21.000 And we are indeed in very complicated, a very difficult geopolitical environment where the military threats have persisted actually since 1996 or 95, the moment I had just described when we were having our first ever presidential election.

00:11:39.000 And China has not renounced the use of force.

00:11:43.000 In fact, they have been utilizing their expanded and, you know, actually rapidly expanding military strength to assert themselves in a very aggressive way, not only towards Taiwan, but as we are seeing towards our neighbors, towards Japan, the Philippines, and the South China Sea.

00:12:02.000 And they're positioning their military even in Africa, Djibouti, and other parts of the world.

00:12:08.000 You mentioned another very important aspect, and that is hybrid warfare.

00:12:12.000 And I know you have quoted Sun Tzu in, you know, in the Art of War and how part of Chinese philosophy is an attempt to subdue the enemy without fighting.

00:12:27.000 And so they have also devised a number of hybrid war tactics, psychological warfare, cognitive warfare, disinformation, the use of cyber attacks, and political manipulation, infiltration in our political system.

00:12:43.000 And, you know, many tools to try to coerce our society, to try to instill fear in our society into submission.

00:12:55.000 And that is an ongoing, this is already happening.

00:12:59.000 It is, you know, Taiwan society is one of the most highly attacked societies in the cyberspace in the world. 0.99

00:13:10.000 And let me just give you some examples that maybe American people can also relate to.

00:13:16.000 And that is a few years ago when I was living in Washington, D.C., there was a colonial pipeline incident where a cyber attack paralyzed the delivery of oil and gas to many American homes and families and cars.

00:13:29.000 And it was during COVID-19, so many people were working at home.

00:13:33.000 But think about the impact that can have on travel and on your working and on the economy.

00:13:39.000 And more recently, we've seen in Europe also cyber attacks on airports, on flight controls.

00:13:46.000 And I was in Brussels a few weeks ago.

00:13:50.000 And prior to that, there were drone presence in the Brussels airport also generated lockdowns or close downs and suspension

00:14:02.000 of flights and really disrupting the normal pattern of life for people in that region.

00:14:11.000 And so I think we are seeing these tactics now appear in many parts of the world.

00:14:15.000 And we are seeing our security affected, our lives affected by these hybrid forms of attack. 1.00

00:14:22.000 In Taiwan, we've also seen this too.

00:14:24.000 We've seen repeated attacks in our medical system, our hospitals, in our critical infrastructure,

00:14:31.000 in government institutions, and this is certainly an ongoing situation.

00:14:37.000 But beyond that, it's the psychological warfare.

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00:16:21.000 Hello America's Voice family.

00:16:23.000 Are you on Getter yet?

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00:16:51.000 And I think the goals of the Chinese Communist Party have been clear.

00:16:55.000 And that is they've been focusing on three key areas in terms of their psychological attacks.

00:17:01.000 And that first is discrediting the system of democracy and the democratically elected government.

00:17:08.000 I think they clearly want to assert that the communist system is superior to our open free democratic system.

00:17:15.000 And so it involves sowing distrust in our society over our political system.

00:17:22.000 Secondly, it involves attacking personalities and individuals whom they see as threatening to their version of the world order.

00:17:33.000 They have been, you know, personally attacking, including me, you know, the president and other personalities.

00:17:39.000 They have even put some of us on a wanted list.

00:17:44.000 Some of our legislators who have been advocating civil preparedness and self-defense.

00:17:50.000 And so, you know, these psychological warfare tactics that are also used as attempts to quiet our society.

00:18:03.000 To suppress resistance to their political agenda.

00:18:10.000 The third general aspect involves sowing divisions between Taiwan and the United States.

00:18:15.000 And between Taiwan and the world.

00:18:17.000 I think they are trying to present a narrative in our society.

00:18:21.000 That, okay, America is not reliable.

00:18:24.000 That Taiwan has no friends. 0.89

00:18:27.000 That Taiwan is isolated.

00:18:28.000 Now this is very typical of bullying tactics.

00:18:31.000 Bullying tactics that many people are familiar with.

00:18:34.000 Bullies in schools that, you know, that say, okay, you cannot have friends.

00:18:38.000 And nobody will stand up for you.

00:18:41.000 And, you know, you're isolated.

00:18:43.000 You're alone.

00:18:44.000 You can't be part of, you know, all of the activities of the other kids.

00:18:49.000 And, I mean, and that's what they're trying to do.

00:18:51.000 They're trying to marginalize Taiwan. 0.76

00:18:53.000 Isolate Taiwan from the international community. 0.98

00:18:56.000 They're trying to say you cannot visit these countries.

00:18:58.000 You cannot go out.

00:18:59.000 You cannot join international organizations.

00:19:02.000 You cannot contribute to global public health.

00:19:05.000 Although Taiwan was one of the first countries to try to alert the World Health Organization that there was a looming COVID-19 virus or potential pandemic.

00:19:16.000 And so, you know, all of these restrictions and trying to sow divisions between Taiwan and our partners, I think, is also another effort to force Taiwan into submission.

00:19:30.000 And this is ongoing.

00:19:33.000 They've made some progress.

00:19:35.000 But, of course, we continue to resist.

00:19:37.000 And our society is also very proactive in educating ourselves in media literacy and trying to discern disinformation from the truth in trying to fortify our confidence in our political system, in our military, in our government, but also between our peoples.

00:19:58.000 And, again, we're working on strengthening our partnership with the United States so that China cannot, you know, sow these divisions, try to isolate Taiwan.

00:20:09.000 And there is a lot of work to do in this space, but I think, you know, with our determination and with a little help from others, I think we are making also some good progress.

00:20:20.000 And given that evolving and certainly ever-present threat landscape, how would you define winning in cross-straight relations?

00:20:29.000 What would a 2032 end state look like where peace is maintained, ties are normalized without a shot being fired?

00:20:37.000 Well, I think ultimately sustainable peace, which is what we aspire for.

00:20:44.000 Sustainable peace, eventually, I don't know why you put the timeline of 2032, but for us, it's about enduring and sustainable peace, you know, on that day or beyond.

00:20:59.000 And we don't have timelines for peace.

00:21:01.000 It is something that we have to continue to work for.

00:21:05.000 From Taiwan's perspective, peace cannot involve domination by one side over another.

00:21:11.000 That is never sustainable.

00:21:13.000 As long as there is domination, repression, or suppression of others, there will always be resistance.

00:21:19.000 And that is not a sustainable form of peace.

00:21:21.000 So peace has to involve a degree of respect for each other.

00:21:26.000 And from Taiwan's perspective, what we are spying for is, you know, continuing with our way of life, you know, preserving our freedom, our democracy,

00:21:36.000 and the right of the Taiwanese people to be masters of our own destiny.

00:21:41.000 And that is the right of the Taiwanese people to determine our own future and also to be respected by other countries in the world for that particular position.

00:21:51.000 And I think a sustainable peace across the Taiwan Strait would involve a much more enlightened leadership in China or awareness that a degree of respect for the wishes of the Taiwanese people is part of the formula for peaceful coexistence.

00:22:10.000 Now, as I said, sustainable peace involves, you know, all stakeholders.

00:22:15.000 And all stakeholders need to feel that we are part of a winning formula.

00:22:19.000 It's got to be a win-win situation.

00:22:21.000 And I know the Chinese leadership has talked about the rejuvenation of the Chinese nation.

00:22:26.000 And I think the Chinese people also feel that they deserve a degree of respect for their economic progress, for their technological progress.

00:22:36.000 And – but I think from our perspective, we hope that that progress is also accompanied by greater compassion, empathy, and understanding that the people of Taiwan should have the right to also determine our own future.

00:22:54.000 And I think if that respect exists, we will be in a situation where I think the people of Taiwan are generally very friendly and open and that we can work with each other.

00:23:07.000 But again, that's a very ideal situation.

00:23:09.000 So I need to come back to reality.

00:23:11.000 And that is the reality that, you know, there is a lot of nationalistic animosity coming from China towards Taiwan.

00:23:23.000 There is very aggressive military posturing.

00:23:27.000 There is a threat to use force against the Taiwanese people.

00:23:30.000 And none of that is conducive to that scenario that I just described, to mutual respect and sustainable peace.

00:23:37.000 And that is why we also need to build on our strength.

00:23:40.000 And so I think an ideal situation for us involves a strong and confident Taiwan economically and also militarily with also some international support where we can feel confident that our decisions about our future will be respected.

00:23:59.000 And so we also subscribe to the concept that Americans talk about, and that is peace through strength.

00:24:06.000 Ultimately, it's about understanding the language of strength.

00:24:09.000 And by building a greater strength, and I think that is also part of deterrence.

00:24:15.000 You know, ultimately what we are doing is celebrating and building on peace, but also deterring and preventing conflict.

00:24:23.000 And that requires a lot of hard work.

00:24:26.000 It is very tough.

00:24:27.000 It is not easy.

00:24:28.000 But it does require determination to invest in our own strength and our own self-defense.

00:24:35.000 And getting granular on what that hard work looks like, what options for defense industrial-based collaboration between Taiwan and the United States makes the most sense to you?

00:24:46.000 Are there co-production opportunities that would be of interest?

00:24:49.000 Yes.

00:24:50.000 Well, the United States has been Taiwan's most important security partner.

00:24:54.000 And Taiwan over the years has acquired a lot of very important defense equipment from the United States.

00:25:03.000 But we are at a stage where sometimes the delivery doesn't meet demand, and that we need to take it upon ourselves to also shoulder responsibilities in building ourselves.

00:25:14.000 And – but also in co-production opportunities with the United States.

00:25:18.000 And I think Taiwan has certainly accumulated many capabilities in scaling and manufacturing where we can also contribute to our partners in working together.

00:25:33.000 And I would say that, you know, we've been putting a lot of focus in drones and robotics.

00:25:39.000 And we've – you know, we're looking at theaters around the world and how asymmetric capabilities support resilience.

00:25:49.000 And so we have just over the last year or two started from ground zero and built up, you know, our own domestic drone supply chain, our own capabilities.

00:26:01.000 And we're also moving into other forms of robotics.

00:26:05.000 And I think these are areas where cooperation with secure supply chains and innovation with the United States and other democratic partners that will help to expedite the ability of us to sustain that asymmetric edge and the ability to deter and defend.

00:26:26.000 And speaking to the broader American public, what is the 90-second case that you would make for how Taiwan can help ordinary American workers and small businesses, whether it's supply chains, jobs, resilience?

00:26:39.000 Let me start by bringing everyone to Arizona.

00:26:45.000 And, you know, Taiwan, you know, our major chip manufacturing company called Taiwan Semiconductor, a chip manufacturing company, TSMC, has invested in Arizona to build mega fabs to produce high-end chips in the United States.

00:27:04.000 It is a mega facility. It is a mega facility. It's like an airport.

00:27:09.000 But it is also the largest greenfield investment by a foreign country in the United States in your history.

00:27:17.000 And it's meaningful. It will contribute to making the chips that will go into your cars, your manufacturing.

00:27:24.000 They will go to Detroit. They will go to other parts of America. 0.74

00:27:28.000 They will go into your iPhones. They will go into a lot of the electronic products, your AI data centers, your computing powers.

00:27:36.000 And, you know, this is Taiwan's contribution to American manufacturing.

00:27:41.000 That is, we will contribute to parts and components that are reliable, trusted, efficient, and competitive.

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00:29:04.000 That's MyPatronSupply.com slash Bannon.

00:29:08.000 In the War Room, here's your host, Stephen K. Bannon.

00:29:15.000 But together, with our supply chains working together, I think we can certainly advance a lot more.

00:29:23.000 And Taiwan will continue to contribute to the supply chains needed for manufacturing in the United States.

00:29:32.000 And I think this is a win-win situation for both of us.

00:29:35.000 You know, ultimately, Taiwanese companies also desire to be global companies.

00:29:40.000 And partnering with our best friends in the United States is one of the ways to expand Taiwan's presence in the world.

00:29:48.000 It's also a great way to contribute to American manufacturing, to the growth of American businesses, and the growth of American technologies.

00:29:57.000 I know the American people are very grateful for that, and I think that collaborating on all things drones only seems to be the logical conclusion and next step.

00:30:07.000 But for those Americans who would argue that we're stretched maybe too thin, Ukraine, Israel, the Indo-Pacific heating up, what would you say to those who are maybe, you know, fearing another foreign commitment?

00:30:19.000 I think nobody wants conflict or war, and I think we feel the same way as American people feel, that we do not want to see a conflict here in the Taiwan Strait.

00:30:35.000 We do not want to see a war.

00:30:37.000 And so everything we are doing today, including the strengthening of our own military and self-defense capabilities, strengthening of our economy, is part of deterring and preventing a conflict.

00:30:51.000 And so I think it's important that American people understand that supporting a strong Taiwan is also part of our shared agenda, our shared interest in sustaining peace and stability in the Indo-Pacific region.

00:31:07.000 And sustaining the balance, although it is not a satisfactory situation for any single stakeholder here, but it is a balance, a status quo that has worked for all of us.

00:31:21.000 And, you know, preventing conflict is our shared agenda, and part of that, as I have said in this interview, is about building Taiwan's strength, sustaining peace through strength.

00:31:33.000 And so continuing this very strong defense partnership, but also working on the economic side in ways that we can foster win-win prosperity for both our peoples so that we do have the strength to continue to build is important.

00:31:51.000 And the second aspect is – the second point I want to make is that, you know, the Taiwanese people are not, you know, sitting around waiting to be saved.

00:31:59.000 You know, we are proactively investing in our defenses.

00:32:04.000 We are – we have increased our defense budget over the past few years by 80 percent over the last DPP administration.

00:32:15.000 And we intend to increase our defense spending in the years to come, including not only acquisitions from the United States, but also in building here in Taiwan.

00:32:26.000 You know, the drones, robotics, the AI systems, the new and emerging technologies that could also contribute to broader national security.

00:32:36.000 And we are taking – you know, shouldering responsibilities to promote and support peace in the Taiwan Strait.

00:32:47.000 And we are also, you know, going beyond that, shouldering international responsibilities, although Taiwan is preventing from joining international organizations wherever there is a need in the world.

00:33:00.000 There is an earthquake, a natural disaster.

00:33:02.000 You know, Taiwanese people are very compassionate, kind people, and we're always ready to contribute to help and to support people in need in other parts of the world.

00:33:12.000 And, you know, so again, you know, we are not, you know, sitting around waiting to exploit a blank check or to be saved.

00:33:27.000 We are building to defend ourselves.

00:33:29.000 We are building to be partners.

00:33:31.000 You know, we are not just a victim of coercion and military threats.

00:33:38.000 We are a proactive partner.

00:33:40.000 And we can contribute.

00:33:42.000 We can work with others to ensure that our shared interests, that our shared agenda can be achieved.

00:33:49.000 I think a topic of discussion that I hear a lot on back home is – really can be distilled into the question of,

00:33:56.000 do you foresee any scenario where American boots would ever be on the ground here in Taiwan?

00:34:03.000 Well, I think everything we are doing is to prevent that particular hypothetical situation from staying hypothetical,

00:34:12.000 from never actually happening, so that no one will ever have to make painful decisions about going into conflict or war.

00:34:23.000 And that's why deterrence is just so important.

00:34:26.000 That is why strengthening Taiwan's capabilities is just so important.

00:34:30.000 And we are in a very asymmetric situation right now.

00:34:33.000 So while we are very committed to investing in our own self-defense and defending ourselves and protecting ourselves,

00:34:42.000 it's a very difficult task.

00:34:44.000 And as we are also quite isolated from the international community, we also need advice, support, and help.

00:34:52.000 And we really appreciate the United States through the Taiwan Relations Act,

00:34:57.000 but also through some recent initiatives by Congress, the National Defense Authorization Act,

00:35:03.000 and some other initiatives in supporting co-production opportunities with Taiwan,

00:35:09.000 in building defense equipment and technology together.

00:35:13.000 We also welcome – we – you know, thankful, actually, we're very thankful for some U.S. initiatives

00:35:22.000 to help train our people.

00:35:27.000 And, you know, after all, the United States is the most experienced and, you know, top rate.

00:35:33.000 And I think the Taiwanese will feel greater confidence if we know that we are being trained by the best in the world.

00:35:40.000 And so, you know, we have a lot of reforms needed, and we are in the process of doing so.

00:35:47.000 But, you know, good coordination with our partners, building together, working together,

00:35:53.000 I think all of that contributes to preventing that particular scenario from ever happening.

00:35:59.000 And speaking of Washington, I know you've spent a lot of time there.

00:36:03.000 What would you say is the largest misconception that Washington has surrounding Taiwan?

00:36:08.000 I would say that it would be very dangerous for anyone – not just Washington, but Beijing or anyone in the world – 0.97

00:36:21.000 it would be dangerous to underestimate the will of the Taiwanese people to protect and defend ourselves.

00:36:27.000 And the will of the Taiwanese people to protect ourselves, I think, is also the most important part of deterring conflict.

00:36:36.000 And we will, you know, certainly continue to work on the necessary reforms and the steps needed to fortify ourselves.

00:36:48.000 But I do want to say that in this area, China is working very hard to project narratives and disinformation in Washington and the United States.

00:37:02.000 They want to project a narrative that Taiwan is weak, that Taiwan is incapable, and that Taiwan is not worth supporting.

00:37:12.000 They also are trying to project a troublemaker in some sense, as if, like, from the first free election we had for the president in 1996, they found that offensive.

00:37:25.000 And they tried to make the argument that that is a disruption of the One China policy.

00:37:33.000 Everything we do, including our efforts to defend ourselves, the act of having free elections in Taiwan, the Chinese find offensive. 1.00

00:37:41.000 And they tend to put that into a narrative of accusing Taiwan as being troublemakers.

00:37:48.000 And I think that is highly inaccurate.

00:37:52.000 And the only one seeking to disrupt peace and the status quo in this region is the People's Liberation Army.

00:37:59.000 We are all for the status quo and for stability.

00:38:02.000 And I think – although I think most American people are very wise and smart and they can really see through these psychological warfare, disinformation tactics that are making attempts to divide our countries, our governments, and our peoples.

00:38:19.000 But time and again, sometimes when you project a lie ten times, some people catch on to it.

00:38:26.000 And we have to be very careful and vigilant about China's political interference, about their narratives, about their disinformation and psychological warfare.

00:38:39.000 And again, you know, work with each other to fortify, to coordinate and go beyond, you know, maybe just Taiwan, the United States.

00:38:51.000 But, you know, freedom-loving people around the world also need to be vigilant about these playbooks from authoritarian states.

00:39:04.000 Just in the few short days that I've been here, it's really been an honor to witness that strength that you're talking about of the Taiwanese people firsthand.

00:39:11.000 But continuing to sort of zoom out to that multilateral level, I'm curious how the internal dynamics of the Chinese Communist Party influence your approach to deterrence.

00:39:23.000 I think for a lot of Taiwanese people, we tend to want to wish for the best but prepare for the worst. 0.99

00:39:33.000 And as we prepare for the worst, I think we have to not rule out any possibility.

00:39:42.000 And that is, you know, there are internal dynamics in China.

00:39:45.000 But experts, you know, have a variety of analysis on how, on what that means for Taiwan.

00:39:54.000 For example, there are experts who say that political instability or economic troubles in China might lead to the Chinese calculation that nationalistic diversions or external aggression is needed to sustain the legitimacy of the government.

00:40:20.000 And that is a scenario that would be rather dangerous for Taiwan.

00:40:26.000 Another scenario, as experts have analyzed, is a China that is overly confident, that miscalculates the will of the Taiwanese people to defend,

00:40:38.000 and the actions of international stakeholders to ensure that the rules-based international order is maintained.

00:40:48.000 An overconfident China that misjudges that may also take very dangerous steps. 0.51

00:40:55.000 And so I think no matter how things go in China, we have to, again, prepare for the worst.

00:41:03.000 And that is why building on our own strength is so important.

00:41:08.000 But I also have to say that, you know, as I said, you know, we want to wish for the best.

00:41:14.000 And that is we want to wish for or work on greater international strategic communication in instilling, you know, first of all,

00:41:29.000 complicating calculations in Beijing that any attempt at aggression would be a cost too hard to bear.

00:41:40.000 And, you know, these calculations, these complications are important part of deterrence.

00:41:45.000 But on a more proactive and positive side, and that is we need to foster greater understanding in China that greater respect for the rights of other societies

00:41:58.000 and for the wishes of the Taiwanese people to determine our own future is something that could also be good for China,

00:42:05.000 that could also support sustained peace and more normalized engagements between the people across the Taiwan Strait.

00:42:14.000 and they need to arrive at that understanding because everything they're doing now is generating greater hostility.

00:42:23.000 They're generating uncertainties, anxieties, and it is completely counterproductive to an agenda of peace,

00:42:36.000 which we feel is also an agenda that should be good for the Chinese people.

00:42:44.000 So,

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00:44:30.000 Here's your host, Stephen K. Bannon.

00:44:33.000 What are the parallels between Beijing's current actions and what we saw from Russia in the lead-up to its invasion of Ukraine?

00:44:46.000 Well, in the lead-up to Russia's invasion of Ukraine, the two leaders got together and announced an alliance without limits.

00:44:55.000 And we see a lot of indications that they are working from the same playbook.

00:45:01.000 All the hybrid warfare tactics that I just mentioned, the cyber attacks, the disinformation, the infiltration in our societies,

00:45:10.000 the political manipulation, all of that is ongoing and is happening.

00:45:17.000 But we also see indications of China's very focused military exercises,

00:45:28.000 their military build-up that also pose very dangerous threats to the stability of this region.

00:45:35.000 And so – and that is why we're quite vigilant about this.

00:45:39.000 And we – you know, we're in a race against time to fortify our defenses, to deter and to prevent any such conflict from happening.

00:45:48.000 And ultimately, you know, we see a lot of pain and suffering in Ukraine.

00:45:54.000 We see a lot of pain and suffering in other parts of the world who are in the middle of conflicts.

00:46:00.000 And we never want to see that happen to the Taiwanese people or to the people in this region.

00:46:06.000 And, you know, again, highlighting this among stakeholders that this is any attempt at invasion, war, annexation,

00:46:17.000 or the use of force to resolve our political differences is unacceptable, is such an important priority right now.

00:46:25.000 What's one small thing people anywhere could do this week to understand Taiwan better?

00:46:30.000 Well, let me go from small to big.

00:46:32.000 And I think it would be easy for many Americans to pick up a book about Taiwan or even easier to – you know,

00:46:43.000 a lot of people see Taiwan through the lens of geopolitical complexities.

00:46:48.000 But Taiwan is so much more than that.

00:46:50.000 You know, we are a very vibrant society with living people, with human beings who have been innovative,

00:46:57.000 who have strived to build opportunities for themselves, who have strived to be that force for good in the world,

00:47:04.000 to contribute to the global good.

00:47:06.000 And we also have very vibrant culture.

00:47:09.000 You know, we have food and music and film and the creative arts.

00:47:15.000 You know, everything that, you know, free societies also enjoy.

00:47:21.000 So I think, you know, trying some Taiwanese food or, you know, a cup of bubble tea, you know, that's a connection to Taiwan.

00:47:29.000 But going beyond that, you know, it's also looking at, you know, all the products around you, you know,

00:47:34.000 the supply chains and how important it is to work with trusted and reliable partners like Taiwan.

00:47:40.000 And, you know, going beyond that, you know, if there's more time, you know, taking a visit here to get a feel of our society like you have,

00:47:50.000 to understand the people.

00:47:52.000 And I think all of that's very important.

00:47:55.000 And actually, in most American cities, there are Taiwanese-American organizations, too,

00:48:01.000 who are very active in presenting Taiwanese food and culture to American society, too.

00:48:09.000 And I think some engagement with them might also work.

00:48:12.000 Although I think the best preference would be to welcome everyone to Taiwan.

00:48:16.000 But I want to add another point, and that is for young people, young Americans.

00:48:20.000 And, you know, for me as a young person, it was very useful for me to have, you know, my upbringing in Taiwan,

00:48:28.000 but also an education in the United States.

00:48:31.000 And, you know, of course, you know, you have the top universities and institutions in the United States.

00:48:36.000 And a lot of us in government, in business, in all walks of life in Taiwan, our engineers, our scientists,

00:48:44.000 have had some form of this experience with the United States.

00:48:49.000 But I think we also want to be open to welcoming American youth who want to get to know the world,

00:48:55.000 who want to get to understand another culture.

00:48:58.000 And Taiwan's, like America, we respect academic freedom, the freedom of speech,

00:49:04.000 the freedom of thought, the freedom of information.

00:49:07.000 And, you know, we want to also make our institutions and universities areas

00:49:13.000 where young people can develop their visions of the world.

00:49:16.000 And we want to welcome American youth to also live and study in Taiwan as part of their learning experience,

00:49:25.000 especially, you know, if anyone wants to learn Chinese, this is the place to do it,

00:49:30.000 rather than a Communist Party-managed Confucian Institute around the world.

00:49:37.000 And so I think there are a lot of things that American people can do to get to understand Taiwan.

00:49:42.000 But ultimately, you know, it comes back to our shared values and what we believe in,

00:49:48.000 and our shared interests.

00:49:49.000 And we just have so much in common, although we are culturally very different.

00:49:54.000 But I think ultimately we're part of humanity that wishes the best for the world.

00:49:59.000 I think as we approach America's 250th birthday, a lot of people are, you know,

00:50:03.000 looking at these founding principles and values, and I think there's just such a strong overlap

00:50:07.000 with what you guys promote here in Taiwan, the civil society, the academic freedom.

00:50:13.000 Finally, I know you're very busy, it's my last question, but is there a line of poetry, scripture, or proverb

00:50:19.000 that you carry into tough days with you?

00:50:22.000 You know, you talked about tough days.

00:50:24.000 And so I just say, you know, when the going gets tough, the tough gets going.

00:50:28.000 And, you know, it's our daily reality.

00:50:30.000 You know, we are living in very tough days.

00:50:32.000 It's very tough being a Taiwanese in the world today as we are up against just so much pressure.

00:50:40.000 And it's tough being Taiwanese because very often we're also rendered invisible.

00:50:48.000 You know, in many countries we cannot even be called Taiwan.

00:50:53.000 We're called Chinese Taipei or China Taipei or Taipei or some other form.

00:51:00.000 And just being Taiwan is so difficult.

00:51:05.000 And so what many other countries take for granted is a daily struggle for the Taiwanese people.

00:51:13.000 But I think the Taiwanese people deserve better. 0.97

00:51:16.000 And a part of deserving better is because we are also toughened and resilient,

00:51:25.000 toughened by our difficulties, toughened by the challenges that we face,

00:51:31.000 toughened by the injustices.

00:51:33.000 But that has never prevented the Taiwanese people from wanting to be contributors to the global good,

00:51:41.000 from achieving the economic progress that has been such an important part of our accomplishments,

00:51:50.000 and from achieving democracy and from defending that.

00:51:54.000 Well, Madam Vice President, thank you so much for your time, transparency,

00:51:58.000 and willingness to talk to the American people about the stakes of a delicate relationship that impacts all of us.

00:52:04.000 And again, thank you to the brave Taiwanese people for standing so courageously on the front lines

00:52:10.000 against the threat of the Chinese Communist Party,

00:52:13.000 treating these complicated decisions with the gravity and knowledge

00:52:16.000 that they will affect the world order as we know it are our shared values in action.

00:52:20.000 So thank you.

00:52:21.000 Well, thank you.

00:52:22.000 And thank you again for your efforts to take the step to understand Taiwan.

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Bannon's War Room - December 02, 2025

Episode 4965： WarRoom Special： A One On One With The Vice President Of Taiwan

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