Bannon's War Room - Episode 4986： AI Race Is Becoming More Of A Battle; Competition Of AI

00:00:00.000 is remaking American culture by sheer force of will, from the Kennedy Center honor to UFC fights

00:00:06.740 at the White House, to control over museum displays, and defunding public broadcasting.

00:00:12.940 But here's the thing. The president can take these actions. He can cancel events. He can

00:00:18.180 take over museums. But you can't force cultural change. Can't people simply reject it?

00:00:24.360 Before I entered office, 100% of all new net jobs were going to migrant workers. See that? 100% of new jobs

00:00:35.100 were going to migrant. These are government numbers, by the way. These are not Trump numbers. These are

00:00:41.700 government numbers. Because they say, well, did Trump come up with these numbers? No, I didn't come up.

00:00:45.860 Migrant workers and illegal aliens got 100%. But since I took office, 100% of all net job creation

00:00:58.000 has gone to American citizens. How about that?

00:01:05.080 Now, how about that? Even I will give myself a hand.

00:01:09.300 Now, think of it. 100% went to American citizens before 100% went to people that came into the

00:01:16.740 country illegally. Again, many of them from prisons, many of them gang members, drug members,

00:01:23.400 trend de Aragua. More Americans are working today than at any time in the history of our country.

00:01:30.120 I've also announced a permanent pause on third world migration, including from hell holes like

00:01:35.860 Afghanistan, Haiti, Somalia, and many other countries.

00:01:44.400 I didn't say all you did.

00:01:53.140 A bad vision, like a really dumb vision, and a destructive one for world peace.

00:02:00.720 Mika, over the last eight decades, 80 years since the end of World War II, the Cold War,

00:02:04.780 the United States essentially had a fairly consistent foreign policy, supporting the rule of law,

00:02:10.320 balance of power, working through allies involved in institutions, promoting democracy and human

00:02:16.140 rights where we could. This is a massive, massive departure. It is the most radical foreign policy

00:02:23.820 vision put forward by any administration in 80 years. This is essentially the end of the post-World

00:02:31.120 War II, post-Cold War American foreign policy. As you say, a big emphasis on the Western Hemisphere

00:02:36.220 above Europe, Middle East, Asia. Big emphasis on promoting commercial interests above all else.

00:02:43.680 Deal-making.

00:02:44.660 Russia gets treated with kid gloves. China, the same. Toughest treatment of Europe.

00:02:50.340 Europe's treated like an Ivy League university, which is woke and needs to be attacked. Really dismissive

00:02:57.280 of Europe hostile about the European Union. No sense at the European Union, by the way,

00:03:04.520 for all of its flaws. Yeah, it over-regulates. I get it. But it's the reason that you've had peace

00:03:09.980 in Europe, in part, for the last eight decades, because it brought together Germany and France,

00:03:14.900 which had fought wars and wars and wars and again and again and again throughout history.

00:03:20.020 So there's no appreciation, I think, of what's been accomplished. Let's be honest. It is a radical

00:03:26.560 document. It is a radical departure. And it'd be one thing to do a radical departure if we failed

00:03:32.140 over the last 80 years. But the last I checked, we've avoided great power war. We won the Cold War,

00:03:38.680 ended peacefully on terms that were pretty good for us. Our economy's done okay. Not perfectly,

00:03:43.540 but okay. The average person lives longer, a lot more freedom in the world. So we're basically

00:03:47.880 junking something that's worked pretty well for something that is radically different.

00:03:52.200 I love this Ilan Omar, whatever the hell her name is, with a little ching, a little turban.

00:03:59.300 I love her. She comes in, does nothing but bitch. She's always complaining.

00:04:06.220 She comes from a country where, I mean, it's considered about the worst country in the world,

00:04:12.520 right? They have no military. They have no nothing. They have no parliament. They don't know what

00:04:17.440 the hell the word parliament means. They have nothing. They have no police. They police themselves.

00:04:22.760 They kill each other all the time. I love it. She comes to our country, and she's always complaining

00:04:28.760 about, the Constitution allows me to do this. We ought to get her to hell out. She married her

00:04:35.440 brother in order to get in, right? She married her brother. Can you imagine if Donald Trump married his

00:04:46.840 sister? Beautiful. She's a beautiful person. If I married my sister to get my citizenship,

00:04:53.160 do you think I'd last for about two hours, or would it be something less than that?

00:04:57.420 She married her brother to get in. Therefore, she's here illegally. She should get the hell

00:05:04.040 out. Throw her the hell out. She does nothing but complain.

00:05:19.740 Together, we're repairing four years of disaster by the radical left Democrats in Congress and by

00:05:25.500 the worst president in the history of our country. He is. I mean, it's not a question about that.

00:05:30.600 He's just the worst president in the history of our country. What the damage he, thank you very much,

00:05:36.260 the damage he's done to our country is something we can never forget. After just 10 months, our border

00:05:44.020 is secure. Our spirit is restored. Inflation is stopped. Wages are up. Prices are down. Our nation

00:05:51.800 is strong. America is respected again. And the United States is back.

00:06:08.900 Andrew Breitbart said politics is downstream of culture. And I think Trump has always innately

00:06:13.280 understood that, that he is shifting the culture. He is shaping the culture. Will it swing back when

00:06:18.160 he's gone? Maybe. But a lot of that stuff we're down the road on. I mean, you know what? When you

00:06:22.980 try to force a cultural shift, you open the door for massive public rejection. Well, I hope you're

00:06:30.180 right. I don't know. We'll soon find out. This is the primal scream of a dying regime. Pray for our

00:06:40.380 enemies. Because we're going medieval on these people. Here's one time I got a free shot at all

00:06:46.160 these networks lying about the people. The people have had a belly full of it. I know you don't like

00:06:51.640 hearing that. I know you try to do everything in the world to stop that, but you're not going to stop it.

00:06:55.060 It's going to happen. And where do people like that go to share the big line?

00:06:59.740 MAGA media. I wish in my soul, I wish that any of these people had a conscience.

00:07:05.800 Ask yourself, what is my task and what is my purpose? If that answer is to save my country,

00:07:13.480 this country will be saved.

00:07:16.640 War Room. Here's your host, Stephen K. Bannon.

00:07:24.840 Wednesday, 10, December, the year of our Lord, 2025. Welcome to the morning edition of the War Room.

00:07:30.800 We have both Dave Brett and Joe Allen is going to join us a moment in our command module in the

00:07:36.720 Imperial Capitol. President Trump goes to Scranton and it's not that he ever lost his mojo, but you

00:07:44.300 can see the connection with MAGA, that great crowd in Scranton. I want to thank Ernie Priate and all

00:07:51.120 the Real America Voice team yesterday for getting us a great run up to the speech. Dave Brett joins me.

00:07:57.880 Dave, first off, Kristi Noem, number two pencil, get number two pencil out. Ilhan Omar, I think the

00:08:07.100 president has said over and over again, get her the hell out. Are we starting the denaturalization

00:08:13.720 process? Asking for a friend. Dave Brett, president went up there for the affordability and he didn't

00:08:19.760 fall into the affordability trap of the Democrats, the 20 some percent inflation. In fact, I think

00:08:25.460 Scott Besson rates it now as like 40 percent inflation, but the inflation, cumulative inflation

00:08:31.700 under Biden, he talked about growth, he talked about jobs, talked about investment, higher wages,

00:08:38.100 taxes that are tax cuts targeted to the working class and the middle class. What's your overall

00:08:42.500 assessment of, and boy, if this is how it's going to be, I say do one bilat in the White House a week

00:08:50.580 with economics and nationalism and then get on the road and do more of this. Your thoughts, Dave Brett?

00:08:57.860 Yeah, well, that's the right setup. You know, it's unfortunately debating right now. It's basically

00:09:03.920 God versus no God, truth versus no truth, right? And so the Federal Reserve is getting ready to lower

00:09:09.160 rates. Why is the federal funds rate been up? Because we had 21 percent inflation under Biden.

00:09:17.480 And most people don't know, even if you got two or three percent inflation now, it's not down,

00:09:22.440 right? Prices aren't down. Trump's got the the inflation rate way down from where it was under

00:09:28.980 Biden, but it's still a three percent addition to 21 percent every year. So when the people say

00:09:34.620 they're hurting, they're hurting. But we got to tell them who did the hurting. And so, you know,

00:09:39.820 unfortunately, the narrative right now, here's your here's the New York Times today,

00:09:43.140 front page right above the fold. A price blitz puts Trump on defense. A price blitz puts Trump

00:09:50.320 on defense. They don't substantiate anything. In fact, the the all the economists have been looking

00:09:56.420 to link tariffs to higher prices. They can't. The San Francisco Fed Federal Reserve Bank did a major

00:10:03.640 deep dive and showed that in the short run, the tariffs have actually lowered prices and they got

00:10:09.440 some other politics in there I don't like, but it can't be found. And then on the other hand,

00:10:15.040 the the Atlanta Fed now has real, real GDP growth after inflation, real GDP going up by three and a

00:10:21.940 half percent. If you would have told me that a year ago, that we'd be at that rate after the Biden

00:10:27.100 economy, I would have been highly skeptical. Right. You everybody knows I've been putting up the

00:10:31.800 downward productivity charts forever. The long run stance hasn't changed except for Trump,

00:10:37.280 jack and capital into this country. That's the number one cause of economic growth. He's doing

00:10:42.220 all the right things. It takes a while, but he's just got to get out when he does the Ian Omar or

00:10:49.340 whatever, you know, the he can do it. But we saw these races in Georgia and whatever the folks

00:10:55.740 downstream from Trump better learn about culture and how to do it, because when Trump does it, he knows

00:11:00.720 how to do it. But at these state level races, whatever there's you're fighting against the mainstream

00:11:06.780 media still as a, you know, as a state delegate kind of thing. And Trump can't help everyone.

00:11:12.180 And it's time for the parties in Virginia and Georgia to get a pulse.

00:11:17.940 Um, a topic. So last night was, uh, was Miami. I don't think that's his biggest deal is what

00:11:23.640 happened in Georgia. We'll get more into detail later, but, uh, basically a state house that

00:11:28.360 president Trump and they had actually worked the districts. President Trump won, I don't know,

00:11:32.820 by 1215 in November in a loss last night. This is one that ought to be, uh, taken apart. The

00:11:39.040 Democrats are clearly enthusiastic. That's what president Trump fighting back last night. And,

00:11:44.180 uh, and they didn't use the stats go back. I want, I want the, I want the, uh, tariffs versus

00:11:50.520 inflation. Cause that's a bald faced lie in the federal reserve of San Francisco is proving that

00:11:55.560 also Atlanta. Remember the Atlanta fed is the one that really takes care of our leads in doing

00:12:01.580 macroeconomic analysis about, uh, GDP growth. They're saying post kind of any inflationary

00:12:08.220 move. It's three and a half percent. That's the type of numbers I've said, you got to get to three

00:12:12.440 and a half, maybe even 4% to outrun these deficits. Those are huge numbers. As president

00:12:17.740 Trump just said right there, those are government numbers. That's feds numbers. Those are not Trump

00:12:22.120 numbers. They say, no, Trump's just making things up. Hit this, hit it again quickly. Cause I want

00:12:26.220 the audience to understand that the serious people that look at this are actually not praising Trump's

00:12:32.240 economic policy. Cause they would never do that, but they're putting out a set of math that praises

00:12:37.160 president Trump's economic policies. Yeah, no, that's absolutely the Atlanta fed. Now it, it,

00:12:45.120 it doesn't do, you know, 2026 forecasts, uh, but it says third quarter of 2025, three and a half

00:12:51.280 percent GDP growth. I've been putting up charts, right. Uh, for years on this show with, we got a

00:12:56.940 productivity problem going down 70 years in a row. CBO has us productivity at 2%, 1.7% for the next 30

00:13:05.440 years. Uh, and in the midst of that, uh, you know, stagflation, stag stagnant economy, Trump is able to

00:13:13.160 pull off a rising stock market and 3.5% GDP growth in the face of Biden inflation. And if I was

00:13:21.260 Trump, I w I would not let go of that, right? It takes, there's a year and a half flag on monetary

00:13:25.900 policy, at least a year lag on fiscal policy. So every economist, if they're telling you the truth,

00:13:31.120 we'll say we're still squarely in Biden's economy. Uh, Trump's doing all the right things to pull us

00:13:35.600 out. It's going to take a year or two. Uh, but he ought to be congratulated and the rest of the

00:13:40.100 party better follow his leader. We're going to be in deep trouble coming up soon.

00:13:43.680 Well, it's not that these to be congratulated cause they're never going to congratulate it's Trump.

00:13:48.020 Yeah. Right. Trump arrangement syndrome. What we have to do because the MAGA movement is

00:13:55.560 very sophisticated when it comes to the economics of this. Right. And they understand he's turning

00:14:00.880 around an aircraft carrier. Um, we have to pound this wash, rinse, repeat, and do not fall into the

00:14:08.440 trap. Everybody says, Oh, you just got to talk about affordability yet. You must address it in the

00:14:13.400 actions you're taking, what you were handed, the specific actions you're taking to alleviate that.

00:14:19.760 But you got to focus on the main thing. The main thing is growth. The main thing is growth in jobs

00:14:25.260 and particularly high value added jobs, also wages and increase in wages. Remember the golden age of

00:14:32.360 Trump. The first time was the fall and Christmas season of 2019 when it all came together and all

00:14:38.060 clicked. And you know who understood that the Chinese communist party. That's why they let a, uh,

00:14:43.980 a pandemic bioweapon bomb his to try to chop block president Trump short commercial break,

00:14:51.000 man, a lot going on today in the world. Stick around.

00:14:55.520 Let me be blunt. Gold is up around 40% this year. That's not speculation. That's reality. And if a

00:15:06.600 portion of your savings isn't diversified in the gold, you're missing the boat. Here's the facts.

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00:16:20.700 Tell America's Voice family. Are you on Getter yet? No. What are you waiting for? It's free. It's

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00:16:49.240 Sign up for free and be part of the movement.

00:16:53.720 Dave Bratt, Joe Allen's joined us also. We'll jump to Joe in a second. Both of them are in the command

00:16:59.620 module. Bratt, I want to continue with you. Today, the Fed, of course, talking about the last of the

00:17:07.620 rate cuts and his forecast for next year, what's going to happen. I think, give me a minute. Our

00:17:13.720 bigger complaint is that the Fed, we have said now for the last couple of years, it's the calculation

00:17:19.580 really of how we set interest rates. And I think this is why President Trump refers to him as too late

00:17:25.820 pal. The next Fed chair, I think the first thing, and Scott Besson has got that magnificent series,

00:17:32.520 and I'll put it back up later today on Getter so you can read it, in the Wall Street Journal and the,

00:17:37.620 I think there was the International Journal of Finance, where he goes through a detail of how

00:17:44.200 really the Fed's become part of the deep state, kind of the Liz Truss picture about the Bank of

00:17:48.520 England, and that they don't take care, they're trying to do so much, most of it woke, most of it

00:17:55.660 related to DEI or globalism and not take care of business, which is about the currency and about

00:18:02.360 employment. And maybe having a dual mandate is not a thing. I recommend they don't focus on

00:18:08.700 employment, they should focus on just the currency itself, of which I think they do a terrible job.

00:18:14.640 It's one of the reasons gold is on fire, right? And you can do that by going and talking to the

00:18:19.900 folks at Birch Gold, Philip Patrick on the team. Your thoughts on interest rates, but also,

00:18:24.400 you know, back to the centerpiece of what President Trump has tried to do. And we need to say this over

00:18:29.540 and over and over again, we made two huge bets, bets about the United States of America and the

00:18:36.100 United States of America is an industrial power, and not just nationalism, but what's in the best

00:18:40.700 interest of the American people. And this is about us returning to be a manufacturing superpower with

00:18:47.640 high value added manufacturing jobs. We're not China, but the United States is the centerpiece of

00:18:52.500 this because our elite sold us out over a 30 year period to ship everything to China. And Joe Allen's

00:18:58.360 going to join us and we're going to talk today about chips and AI and the whole fight there.

00:19:03.380 What looks like our elites are trying to do it again for the second time to shift to basically

00:19:06.840 give China the tools to defeat us. President Trump's two bets are the big, beautiful bill,

00:19:12.240 the supply side tax cut is about giving some incentives to capital to invest in a massive way

00:19:20.120 here in plant and equipment. The whole redoing of the commercial relationships of the world,

00:19:24.900 which folks were only in the first six months of this. These trade deals alone with Japan and Korea

00:19:30.040 in the past took three to five years to do and go on and on and on. President Trump is trying to

00:19:35.100 quick march that to change the commercial relationships to incentivize the foreign manufacturers

00:19:41.760 to relocate, relocate here to the United States of America. Now, I am one that's not exactly ever

00:19:48.200 super happy about foreign capital coming to the United States because I think it brings too much

00:19:52.120 control. However, in the current economic system we have, you know, if they're going to bring their

00:19:57.360 manufacturing back, they're going to bring their cat, they're going to lead with their capital to

00:20:01.660 do it. So we will have to work through that. But that is a high class problem. Dave Brad, your sense

00:20:07.520 of where it's going. And you could tell last night from the audience reaction, the audience wants to

00:20:12.160 hear President Trump address these things. They love it when he starts talking about this. I mean,

00:20:15.660 he he that and it was perfect. Alexander create the people Susie was the people of the White House

00:20:21.260 to pick Scranton for the first one, I think was absolutely brilliant. Your thoughts, sir?

00:20:27.760 Yeah, well, Scott Bassett is doing Herculean work. His best phrase a year ago was, you know,

00:20:35.140 Wall Street has had its turn. Now it's time for Main Street. We have to make that happen real quick.

00:20:40.780 So the last 30 years of Federal Reserve policy with the Greenspan put has always favored Wall

00:20:45.980 Street and the rich and they can time things. And the Federal Reserve system, I hope someone is

00:20:50.520 cleaning that out because they're part of the problem. Right. It goes without saying 21 percent

00:20:56.780 inflation because they validated two trillion dollar spending deficits from the government.

00:21:02.220 They validated that. They said, OK, right, we're going to print you enough money so you guys can

00:21:07.280 put the United States out of business. The only thing that gets me nervous about the Fed now and

00:21:11.820 Treasury is it's getting so complex now. No one can understand it. Right. I did a Ph.D. in economics,

00:21:17.840 studied monetary policy, some not an expert in monetary, but I can't follow some of this breaking

00:21:24.760 news right on the new monetary innovations and what's going on. We need to simplify Milton Friedman.

00:21:30.940 And if you want to help the average person, the average person doesn't know yet. And, you know,

00:21:36.960 as a Calvinist, you know, we're not known for our feelings. But when I get really ticked off inside

00:21:42.800 when I know what happened, what we just did to the middle class. Right. And the working class is

00:21:47.520 working for 10 bucks an hour, 20 bucks an hour. They don't know that 21 percent inflation, the purchasing

00:21:53.420 power of their entire retirement account, if they have one of their lifetime savings, just went down by

00:21:59.280 21 percent in four years. They don't know that they think it's just like the grocery basket where you

00:22:04.500 have the supermarket and food prices are a little high. No, it's way worse than that. And so, you

00:22:09.940 know, Milton Friedman, it was pretty simple. Print M2 goes up the same percentage rate as GDP goes up.

00:22:15.960 Right. There you go. That's enough money to accommodate the growth in the real economy. And

00:22:20.620 that's it. And quit doing all hiring all these economists who are all woke and they're studying

00:22:25.500 everything under the sun except for median, the average person's wages. They're not doing

00:22:30.700 anything there. They're just doing all woke politics on the left. The other thing that

00:22:35.780 President Trump is doing also, and he hammered last night, is immigration. And this is all

00:22:41.480 immigration. I mean, essentially, Axios has a piece of, please go to get her. This is where I put my

00:22:45.760 stuff up, is that Axios has a very smart piece today that says, essentially, President Trump,

00:22:51.120 really from the shooting, and hey, maybe it should have started day one, is essentially stopping

00:22:57.620 kind of all immigration right now. And we recommend this. If you want wages to pop,

00:23:03.100 it's not just the H-1B scam, which has to be eliminated. We need to stop bringing in the world

00:23:08.420 to compete with workers in the United States. And don't sit there and tell me, oh, they're better,

00:23:12.940 they have more entrepreneurial drive. The people in the United States of America have plenty of

00:23:17.160 entrepreneurial drive. They just need a shot to execute. And so stopping immigration, a huge part

00:23:23.060 of this, you can see already with wages and working class people, stopping the illegal alien

00:23:27.660 immigration, which was what Wall Street wanted, the reason they backed Biden, they wanted to drive

00:23:32.840 wages down among the working class, particularly Hispanic Americans and African Americans, right?

00:23:38.380 And so he stopped that. He stopped that. Over two million have self-deported because they

00:23:44.440 understand the rules of the games of change. Now you need to get into what I call the legal

00:23:48.900 immigration, which is also all a scam. You got green cards, the whole thing's a scam. You got to,

00:23:53.700 you're going to have to take a decade, half a decade at least, to think all this through and

00:23:58.700 see how it benefits the American citizen while it's benefiting the country. Dave Brett.

00:24:05.220 Yeah. And yeah, one point on that, what you just immigrate, it's hard to keep up with all the,

00:24:09.560 all the corruption, right? The Federal Reserve has hundreds and hundreds of economists, really smart

00:24:14.740 people, right? University of Chicago, Harvard, all the top brains, but the brains don't have courage

00:24:21.300 and they don't have any moral convictions. And economics is supposed to maximize human happiness.

00:24:26.820 How's that going? The guys that study economics, they just take all those initial assumptions

00:24:31.320 and ignore the basic point. They're supposed to be maximizing human happiness. So when you have 20

00:24:38.480 million illegal immigration, immigrants, a border invasion, and no Federal Reserve economist has

00:24:44.960 studied that phenomenon. Hey guys, you think that might affect the economy? I mean, the U S government,

00:24:52.000 right? The, the, all of the budget committees have any of the economists covered the damage done to the

00:24:57.580 American worker? No, because that's run by the speaker's office and the leadership office and the

00:25:03.280 donors control those offices. So the, the, the, the three mega issues that we've been on, right?

00:25:09.120 The, the economy, the border invasion, uh, the past two wars were $17 trillion. Uh, any economic

00:25:16.220 articles on the opportunity cost, right? That's the first term you learn in an intro book, uh, of that,

00:25:21.880 of that 17 trillion. And we have a $7 trillion government, uh, budget right now. Hey, uh, economists out

00:25:30.020 there, uh, what is the productivity on government spending? Just, I haven't seen it lately, right?

00:25:35.680 What, what, what, what's the productivity? If GDP growth is too, what's the productivity on the $7

00:25:41.240 trillion in government spending? Haven't seen a study on that guys, because if the American people

00:25:46.460 found out what that number was, uh, you know, and it's not Republican Democrat, we're spending like

00:25:52.060 drunken sailors too. And so we got to get our heads on straight here. This, this is a total waste of

00:25:57.880 money. We're stealing from the next generation of kids. I was with kids yesterday in the white house

00:26:02.460 working on education and maha and all that stuff. And, uh, if you, if you love the kids, you better

00:26:08.200 get this spending and economy going for them. That's the only hope they have. Give me a quick,

00:26:13.200 uh, we're going to come back from a break in a few minutes. Uh, we're gonna have Chris McGuire,

00:26:17.200 uh, an expert on, on, uh, on chips on, um, and over the council on, uh, on foreign relations.

00:26:23.320 Join us with Joe Allen. Um, I want to go to Georgia real quickly. Everybody's making a big deal

00:26:27.900 about, um, about Miami. I thought the invasion, I thought Marco's invasion of Venezuela was supposed

00:26:33.420 to take care of us there, but let's put a pin in that enough people yelling about that. Although

00:26:37.500 very low turnout, uh, in Georgia. And now this is a house of delegates or house of representative

00:26:42.660 seat, not, not for Congress, but for the Georgia general assembly, but it is a Trump district.

00:26:47.340 And once again, I think it, to me, it reinforces what happened in New Jersey in the governor's

00:26:53.680 race and in the Commonwealth of Virginia. If you run these basic rhinos or even conservative

00:26:59.200 Inc, uh, Republicans with no energy and their whole program is just tax cuts and size of government,

00:27:05.300 uh, that you've got to do more than that. And this guy got, uh, got beaten last night on something

00:27:10.180 that was a, a shocker to people, but you've got, give me 30 seconds. You got some inside

00:27:14.340 information on this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. One of my good buddies, African American, African American

00:27:18.880 small business pastor is just so fed up with the Republicans. They're in the brawl in house

00:27:24.180 brawls there between the squishes and the rhinos and the Patriots. Uh, there's no energy in the

00:27:29.300 Republican party, just like in Virginia. It's just totally broken. No energy. No. And then you,

00:27:34.020 as a candidate at the smaller seats, you're fighting the mainstream media. Uh, so it, it same

00:27:39.000 predicament and you can't rely on Trump. I heard that Newt Gingrich might be coming in, uh,

00:27:44.080 with some ideas and maybe he can help fix, uh, Georgia. He, he did some great work with

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00:29:12.640 Here's your host, Stephen K.

00:29:14.320 Okay. Uh, Brad, we're going to talk more about the rate cut, uh, that should come this afternoon,

00:29:21.040 what it means, uh, in a little while, uh, Joe Allen back from your travels, Joe, uh, you've been working

00:29:25.760 nonstop. Of course, the, um, the AI amnesty got pulled from the, uh, the second, this is embarrassing.

00:29:33.600 This is why the president's being poorly advised sacks and these guys tried to jam it in again

00:29:38.160 to the NDAA. Of course, the audience and article three and grace, uh, with bill blast, everybody

00:29:43.600 got up on the ramparts and got that pulled. Uh, and now they're working on an EO. We're going to

00:29:47.760 have, we'll talk more about the EO later, but what's the sense you've been going around now,

00:29:51.280 given more of your talks. Give me a sense of things, sir.

00:29:54.160 Yeah, Steve, among the public, I don't know anyone who is for the federal preemption. Uh,

00:30:03.040 I know a few experts and accelerationists who do, but the public want to keep the power in the states.

00:30:11.280 You know, I just got back from San Francisco and I was meeting with mainly transhumanists and you

00:30:17.520 might say, uh, former transhumanists turned doomers. The cultural landscape is astounding.

00:30:25.200 I attended a forestite Institute conference in an old Christian science church, what's now the

00:30:31.520 internet archive. And as we all sat in pews, listened to lectures on how gene editing will lead to

00:30:39.200 the curing of all disease and maybe immortality, uh, how the advancement of AI will both enhance

00:30:45.600 and replace and perhaps destroy all the human race. And of course, all the ways in which, uh,

00:30:52.080 brain emulation will lead to the possibility of uploading your brain so you can live forever

00:30:57.120 in a data center. So, uh, that's the short version of, I went into the vipers den got bit when I'm

00:31:06.400 trying to shake off the venom. We, we, we would love to say, we would love to say that this is science

00:31:11.840 fiction, but it's not folks as we, this is why we brought you over years ago. And what the book

00:31:16.080 dark ends about Joe, just hang with me for a second. I want to bring in Chris McGuire. Chris

00:31:20.160 is over the council of foreign relations, former member of the national security council, uh, an

00:31:24.400 expert on, on chips and technology in the CCP. Uh, and I wanted him to kind of give us some details

00:31:30.400 today. We've heard the strategic side of it. And the reason is at our beloved Murdoch wall street

00:31:35.440 journal, Trump's shift on the video chips bolsters China's, uh, AI ambitions. And it's a pretty brutal

00:31:42.240 article about what has been done. Chris, I make the argument that the president to a large extent

00:31:47.440 is just hearing when he hears about China technology, he's just hearing one side of it

00:31:51.840 because he's got all these guys in Silicon Valley, all the oligarchs, and they always pitch.

00:31:56.880 It just, this, this doesn't make sense. If we're, if we're at an inflection point and we're having a

00:32:00.880 Sputnik moment and we can't have any controls over the frontier labs. In fact, we have to turn over

00:32:06.560 the weapons labs and the national labs to them, uh, to, to, to have them, you know, work on AI,

00:32:12.720 uh, at their, you know, at, at, at their direction with no controls. Like I said, there's more controls

00:32:18.160 on it. You have more regulations about launching a nail salon on Capitol Hill than you have on the

00:32:23.360 frontier labs. We have no earthy idea what they're doing. Uh, and at the same time they said,

00:32:27.520 it's all about China. You can't, you have to do this because China, and I do disagree with,

00:32:31.840 with, uh, some of my colleagues in this preemption. If we had some sort of apparatus,

00:32:37.360 like the atomic energy commission or nuclear weapons, that we had some part of regulatory

00:32:41.280 apparatus, I think federal rules would actually be more logical. The states are doing this.

00:32:47.200 DeSantis is doing this. Other states are doing this because there is nothing right now and they're

00:32:51.440 not prepared to have their citizens just be, uh, at the, uh, at the whim of the, uh, of the

00:32:57.200 accelerationist. Then on the other hand, we're now in a situation where the Chinese Communist Party

00:33:02.880 would be nowhere if we didn't give them capital, equity, debt, the ecosystem, train them, uh,

00:33:08.240 educate them. And most importantly, give them the mother's milk of artificial intelligence,

00:33:13.760 which is these advanced chips, which would come from American technology. So can you walk us through

00:33:19.840 what exactly has happened over the last 48, 72 hours? Why is this so big? And what should this

00:33:24.640 audience understand on the technical side, sir? Sure. Thanks for having me, Steve. So I,

00:33:31.440 yesterday or two days ago, uh, President Trump announced that the, the NVIDIA H200 chip could

00:33:36.640 be exported to China. So this is not NVIDIA's most powerful chip, but it is their second most powerful

00:33:41.680 chip. It's the best chip of the previous generation. And most importantly, it is substantially

00:33:45.920 better than anything available in China. It's six times better than the best chip that,

00:33:50.240 that is the best U S chips that's there now. It's better than any Chinese chip that they're

00:33:54.320 going to make for the next two years. Uh, and up till this point, the U S policy has been to export

00:33:59.680 control very, very advanced AI chips to China because these chips are the most important thing

00:34:06.480 for the development of AI. You need very large numbers of them to develop the, the develop and run

00:34:12.560 the most sophisticated models. And obviously the, the most sophisticated models are crucial

00:34:17.040 to national security, to economic prosperity. I mean, the entire U S stock market is basically

00:34:21.840 being propped up by the spending on the creation of data centers, uh, to, to run these chips mostly

00:34:28.400 for AI inference, but, but also for training inferences, the process of running the models.

00:34:32.720 So up until this point, the U S policy had been to maintain as large of a lead as possible over China

00:34:38.880 by number one, maximally slowing China down and number two, investing maximally at home.

00:34:44.560 And the only way the United States has to slow down China's AI progress is export controls on AI

00:34:50.480 chips. And fortunately the United States is much, much better than China is at developing AI chips.

00:34:57.600 It's actually across the entire rest of the AI stack. It's more or less a wash. If not China's

00:35:02.080 ahead, their people are as good as ours. Uh, they develop really good algorithms. They have access

00:35:06.960 to as much data, if not more, they're really good at making electricity. But the one thing that they

00:35:11.280 really can't do nearly as well as us is make chips. So therefore the United States has leverages

00:35:16.480 maximally to our advantage and said, we're not going to let the most chips go to China. And that has had

00:35:21.440 an impact on AI capabilities. It's why our labs are ahead of theirs. It's why the best models come from

00:35:27.680 U S firms and not Chinese firms. It's why data centers around the world are not from Chinese companies.

00:35:33.760 They're from U S companies. The Chinese have this belt and road initiative around the world,

00:35:37.680 but there is no AI belt and road. There is no, there, there's no competitor to Microsoft data

00:35:43.200 centers to Microsoft cloud providers. And that's great for American business. And it's great for

00:35:47.680 American technology. And it means that the world will use the AI, the USA ISAC because the Chinese

00:35:53.520 can't, can't make it and can't provide it. Uh, the administration changed this policy. And they said that,

00:36:00.000 that, that we're basically, instead of having as large of a lead as over possible as China,

00:36:04.240 we're going to have a relative lead over China, and we're going to be willing to give them maybe

00:36:08.480 not our best chips, but our, our second best chips. Uh, and we think that's, that's acceptable.

00:36:14.160 Uh, there are enormous risks in this, like, even though they're not the best chips,

00:36:18.320 the game with AI is not about whether you have the best single chip or not. It's about how much computing

00:36:24.160 power in aggregate. Can you pull together into a data center, uh, into a training run and use to

00:36:30.240 make and then run models. And you can actually use large numbers of less advanced chips to replicate

00:36:36.240 the performance of, you know, comparatively slightly smaller numbers of the most advanced

00:36:40.480 chips. So the U S advantage over China is predicated on us having very, very large gaps of computing and

00:36:47.440 then have not having access to any chips that are anywhere near the frontier and the most advanced.

00:36:52.960 That's why previously the U S policy was to draw a line in the sand and say, you shall not cross

00:36:57.680 this. Now that that policy has been upended is much more difficult for China, for the United States

00:37:02.720 to leverage its advantages over computing power over China and AI. And therefore the U S lead over China

00:37:07.920 and I almost certainly will decrease if not evaporate. This has come from, look, David Sachs and

00:37:13.600 Idris and a lot of people, but principally Jensen and Wong, let's focus on that. So Jensen

00:37:17.280 Wong has told us over the last couple of weeks, and then look, I'm quite harsh on him. I say he's a

00:37:22.160 agent of influence for the CCP and an arms dealer. Um, but, uh, he, he's, he said things like,

00:37:28.640 it doesn't matter if China wins the race, we'll all benefit. It doesn't matter if a Chinese company

00:37:33.840 wins the race, uh, we'll all benefit for it, benefit from it. What is Jensen to, to let's take

00:37:39.680 his side for a second. What is the pitch he actually makes and Idrisen and Sachs make to the president

00:37:45.120 to, to try to say, Hey, let's get these export controls over because then what we want is

00:37:50.640 complete dominance in the American stack and China using it. Give us the, give us a sophisticated

00:37:55.120 version of what Jensen Wong is telling the president, sir. I think there's two main arguments

00:38:01.600 that they make. The first is that if we don't export the chips to China, China will make the chips

00:38:07.440 themselves. So therefore U S companies might as well make money rather than having the Chinese companies

00:38:13.040 make the money and also have the same capability. That's wrong for a reason. I'll go to a second.

00:38:17.040 The second one is that by exporting their technology, it's, it's sticky, uh, and it becomes

00:38:24.320 difficult for the Chinese to, to move off of their ecosystem. And actually they'll be incentivized to

00:38:29.600 not make the advanced chips. Uh, and, and therefore our, our dominance will reign for a longer amount of

00:38:36.160 time. I think both are incorrect. Um, for two different reasons on the second one, it's, it's

00:38:42.160 just very straightforward to address. I think number one, China has never been satisfied to be relying

00:38:47.040 on the United States for any sophisticated technology ever, and particularly not advanced

00:38:52.000 semiconductors. They've been very, very clear that they're going to not be reliant on the U S and also

00:38:56.880 the U S up to this point has been very clear that we are going to use this as a choke point to constrain

00:39:02.240 them. So if you're the Chinese, there's no putting the toothpaste back in the tube. There's no way

00:39:06.560 that we can ever convince the, regardless of whether you think they're full out on.

00:39:11.440 There's very specific, as we talk about all the time in May of 2019, after two years of hard

00:39:15.760 negotiation with Li He, uh, uh, Lighthizer Navarro, the, the deal, the seven, the deal that

00:39:21.120 take care of all the problems with the Chinese economy and integrating the world economy. They not

00:39:25.200 only said, we're not going to do that. They also said, we're going to decouple from Western

00:39:29.040 technology that this is, they do this all the time. They will not. And the reason why she,

00:39:33.520 Sean, and she didn't agree to the deal on, on the economy and then further took it for,

00:39:38.560 and then they went after their tech entrepreneurs and not being tough enough is they will, they don't

00:39:43.520 see a system where they have to kowtow to the foreign devils as a system that works. They will

00:39:49.520 always try to decouple from our technology. That is just their pattern over time. Is it not, sir?

00:39:54.720 Absolutely. Absolutely. They are a hundred percent incentivized to, to, to do this, and they're

00:40:01.280 moving as fast as they can. When we were, when I was in the White House working on this, when we

00:40:05.760 were debating, you know, what's the Chinese response going to be? And is it going to accelerate

00:40:09.120 Chinese indigenization? We thought about that. And our thinking was Chinese indigenization on

00:40:13.760 advanced semiconductors is already at the maximum. Their pedal's already on the floor. They, they,

00:40:18.880 they know that they need to really reduce their reliance on us for this. Any logical country would,

00:40:24.160 and it's consistent with all of their past practices. So they're going to do this.

00:40:28.640 The other thing I would also argue just from a technical perspective is this, this technical

00:40:32.720 argument that, well, it, but it makes it really difficult for them to switch off of chips.

00:40:36.320 It's actually not that hard. And the reason, you know, it's not that hard is that you,

00:40:40.400 the big USAI labs have done it. Anthropic has done it. Google has done it. The big labs are actually

00:40:46.880 moving away from this, this sticky ecosystem, either away from NVIDIA chips or from the kind of software

00:40:52.560 that they use the CUDA software that NVIDIA argues gets people hooked to their, to their ecosystem.

00:40:59.120 But if you have a lot of resources, if you have a lot of resources, like a, like a USAI lab does,

00:41:04.880 they have already done it. They've been able to leverage those resources to do it. The Chinese,

00:41:08.320 you know, Communist Party, the entire state backed apparatus, and all these sophisticated Chinese

00:41:13.040 companies also have large amounts of resources and also will be able to break through that. So the

00:41:17.040 point there is there's not a moat there. There's the, the, this kind of relying on them not being

00:41:24.080 able to figure out how to get off of our chips at some point in the future is not a technically

00:41:28.560 accurate assessment. And so if that's being pitched to the president, I think that's incorrect.

00:41:33.600 Um, and then a separate question if you want to go into it on the production side.

00:41:37.280 Yeah. Yeah. I want to hold you through the, the break before we go to break. We've got about a

00:41:41.360 minute. Um, the, um, it, the coming on the same day that the justice department says they got this

00:41:48.320 black market operation of industrial espionage that was selling the exact same chips for showing,

00:41:53.920 it does show that they're desperate to get the chips and try to somehow recreate them. Correct.

00:41:58.560 Not just the chips they can steal, but also recreate them. That, that's part that's,

00:42:01.840 that is an active part of their program. Is it not?

00:42:03.840 Absolutely. Yeah. They're trying to, to steal the chips there. And actually look,

00:42:09.040 there are loopholes and controls that should be closed separately. I will say that we, you know,

00:42:12.720 there's things that the Biden administration, while they pushed this forward, building what

00:42:15.600 the Trump administration did, there were loopholes. The Trump administration should close.

00:42:18.400 Chinese companies can, they can, they can get chips from third countries. Um, that should be stopped.

00:42:23.280 Chinese companies can access us chips via the cloud that should be stopped, but to actually sell the

00:42:29.120 chips instead is the complete reversal. And, and it, it, it, we should be moving completely

00:42:35.360 the other direction in terms of closing loopholes, not opening giant new ones back up.

00:42:38.800 Uh, Chris, can you hang over for a second? We're taking a shortcut.

00:42:42.400 Absolutely. Right. Chris McGuire joins us. Uh, Joe Allen's in the house. Uh, we're going to talk

00:42:47.360 about the, uh, executive orders, a bunch of executive orders now floating around. Uh, they're going to

00:42:52.320 try to go a different direction. Then you've killed the putting in it to the NDAA, the AI amnesty

00:42:59.920 for stopping the preemption, uh, or not stopping the preemption. Anyway, short commercial break,

00:43:04.480 Chris McGuire, Joe Allen, Dave Bratt on the other side.

00:43:11.920 Okay. Let's be honest. You never thought it would get this far. Maybe you missed the last

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00:44:33.120 Here's your host, Stephen K. Band.

00:44:39.280 Chris McGuire joins us. Chris, just so we get a level set here, because I'm going to go to the

00:44:43.760 argument of why you can't have any state regulations and really no federal regulations. The

00:44:49.120 accelerationists not just have to be accelerationists. My concern is that they're just going to do what

00:44:55.680 they're going to do and accelerate, and we just have to live with it. How close now, given Chinese

00:45:02.080 Communist Party capabilities, are they really, let's leave this deal aside, are they really

00:45:08.240 in mounting a true competition for us in the area of artificial intelligence, given the entire

00:45:15.440 ecosystem of Chinese technology, training, education, and capital, sir?

00:45:22.560 Yeah, so I think the Chinese are close. They're probably months behind us, which is a problem and

00:45:28.800 is really concerning. It means that they're very close to us in developing sophisticated military

00:45:32.960 capabilities that will be linked to this from capturing a big percentage of the projected

00:45:37.440 $16 trillion in economic value that AI is going to generate. So they are close. Where they're not

00:45:44.640 close is in the production of the chips and infrastructure in order to do it. The reason they're

00:45:49.440 close is because they still have access to our computing power, either because of smuggling or because of

00:45:56.480 loopholes and controls. Without that, they wouldn't. So if they were forced to build the infrastructure

00:46:01.760 themselves, they would probably fall far behind to years relatively quickly, which in AI is an eternity.

00:46:09.360 And so that gets us back to these chips. Now, one of the arguments Silicon Valley is making is that,

00:46:15.920 hey, once the West gets accommodated to Chinese technology and Chinese use, that all the people that

00:46:22.960 threw up these arguments before turn out they're wrong. Is that correct? Isn't there some examples,

00:46:28.240 particularly with Huawei, where it actually proves our case, sir?

00:46:34.400 Yeah, I mean, I think the key thing here where I frankly think that the, based on the Bloomberg

00:46:38.960 reporting that says that this decision was linked to saying Huawei is actually really capable, I think that

00:46:45.680 they're frankly not. And this is actually one of the few things that the Chinese really do lag at.

00:46:50.880 And it's important to kind of draw out the distinctions here. It's true that Huawei can make a chip that is

00:46:56.800 slightly worse on paper than this H200, but they can't make that many of them. And that's what's important,

00:47:03.520 because you need to be able to aggregate very large numbers of these chips. Right now, the total number

00:47:08.880 of chips that the Chinese can make, or the total amount of AI computing power that the Chinese can make,

00:47:13.760 is probably in the one to 2% range of what the US can make. If you're really generous to the Chinese,

00:47:20.160 and you assume their production is much, much higher than the estimates we've seen to date,

00:47:24.400 it's no more than, say, the 5% range. And actually, the best US chip right now is about

00:47:29.840 five times better than the best Chinese chip, which is pretty good. That is projected to increase

00:47:34.720 to about 20 times better in just two years. And the reason for that is that our chips are getting

00:47:40.240 better and better. They're using more advanced technology that the Chinese don't have access to.

00:47:44.400 And Chinese chips are more or less stagnating. So the gap between the United States and China

00:47:49.120 on this is projected to radically increase. That means that our export controls and our ability to

00:47:54.080 actually restrain China's AI capabilities is going to go up as long as we don't give them the chips

00:48:01.120 themselves to actually develop the AI that's so dangerous. So if we actually stay the course,

00:48:07.760 the policies will probably start to have a pretty significant impact on the Chinese. But by reversing

00:48:13.200 them, we run a huge risk that actually, the gap between US and China will close in AI,

00:48:18.960 and that will have massive impacts on our national security and economic prosperity.

00:48:23.760 One of the biggest breaks we had with the with the globalist and foreign policy established for

00:48:27.840 16 was the confrontation with China. In certain aspects, there's continuity from what President

00:48:32.640 Trump did and the team did in his first term and what Biden did. If you were able to sit with the

00:48:38.160 President today and just say, hey, look, I got a couple thoughts, what would that be to the President

00:48:42.560 of the United States?

00:48:43.600 Yeah, I think that's worth emphasizing that really, this is a bipartisan policy that Trump

00:48:48.720 administration started with the restrictions on semiconductor manufacturing equipment in 2019 and

00:48:53.440 20. And then the Biden administration continued. I think we should number one, semiconductor

00:48:57.440 manufacturing equipment is the foundation of this, the ability to produce the chips, the Chinese are

00:49:02.240 very restrained, but not fully restrained, we should be blocking the export of all semiconductor

00:49:06.640 manufacturing equipment to China that's capable of any advanced production. And just basically make

00:49:12.000 sure that they have no chance of having an advanced chip making industry. I think our controls have

00:49:15.600 been effective, but they really need to be maximum effective and shouldn't have zero risk.

00:49:19.440 So I also think we should basically we should make stop the Chinese from making buying or renting AI

00:49:24.320 chips. So that means no semiconductor manufacturing equipment. It means no sales of AI chips. And it also

00:49:29.600 means no Chinese access via the US cloud. If we're going to be in a competition with China and AI,

00:49:34.640 then they should use their own chips and their own infrastructure in order to fund to fuel their own models.

00:49:40.080 That's the way that we can best ensure American competitiveness. If we're having leaks in any

00:49:44.320 part of that stack, making, buying and renting AI chips, China is going to be able to leverage the

00:49:48.960 single greatest asset the US has, the most advanced technology in the world to produce the very

00:49:54.400 technology that they want to use to overtake the United States. It's dangerous and we shouldn't let them

00:49:59.120 do it. Chris last, you know, these guys and the way they negotiate and the way they think,

00:50:04.800 if the Chinese, if the roles were reversed, what would the Chinese Communist Party do to

00:50:09.520 the United States of America in this regard, sir? There is absolutely no way that the Chinese

00:50:15.920 Communist Party would ever let the United States have advanced AI chips if they were the only ones

00:50:21.600 in the world that made them. Chris, what is your social? It's that simple. Sir, where do people go

00:50:28.480 to find out more about you and more about your thinking and writing on this topic?

00:50:33.920 On Twitter, I'm at Chris R. McGuire. I am the, I'm at the Council on Foreign Relations as the Senior

00:50:39.680 Fellow for China and Emerging Technologies. We will have a, actually, I've mentioned some of the production

00:50:44.160 numbers on Huawei. We're going to have a report on this either today or tomorrow, kind of going through

00:50:49.760 these numbers in detail and really looking at the assessment on US and China compute capabilities.

00:50:56.400 So yeah, mostly CFR and Twitter, but I will be speaking on this until we get this policy to a

00:51:03.200 good place. So thanks for all your help on this, Steve. No, thank you. And we will push out all

00:51:09.120 of those reports and studies and make sure that the Warren Posse has a full understanding of this.

00:51:12.720 Thank you, sir. Appreciate it. Thanks. It's ironic that we leave today's the first hour with the right

00:51:18.720 stuff. A masterpiece by Tom Wolf as a book. The movie is a masterpiece by Philip Kaufman. The

00:51:27.840 score is a masterpiece by Conti. And it was about the last time I would say we had a race with an

00:51:37.840 enemy with the, with the Soviet Union about the space program, nuclear weapons, all of it. And we had

00:51:44.160 the right stuff. Our focus was on total and complete victory, total and complete victory.

00:51:53.280 Chris McGuire just said it. If the Chinese Communist Party of the roles are reversed,

00:51:58.480 there is zero probability that they would assist the United States of America in anything.

00:52:04.560 And that's what we have to do. The Chinese Communist Party is very simple.

00:52:10.320 We must win this race. We will win, win this race as we've won others in the past,

00:52:16.480 but we cannot give them a helping hand at all. They're a murderous dictatorship.

00:52:22.640 That is a threat, existential threat to Lao Bai Jing, their people and a threat

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Bannon's War Room - December 10, 2025

Episode 4986： AI Race Is Becoming More Of A Battle; Competition Of AI

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