Bannon's War Room - December 27, 2025


Episode 5026： WarRoom Saturday Special： The Patriot's History Of America


Episode Stats


Length

53 minutes

Words per minute

158.93561

Word count

8,567

Sentence count

617

Harmful content

Misogyny

5

sentences flagged

Hate speech

21

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Larry Swiker joins me in the War Room to discuss the assassination of Charlie Kirk and the impact it has had on American politics and politics in general election day, and how it applies to today's political landscape. We also talk about how the loss of a presidential candidate like Charlie Kirk changed American politics forever.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 This is the primal scream of a dying regime.
00:00:07.000 Pray for our enemies.
00:00:09.000 Because we're going medieval on these people.
00:00:12.000 I got a free shot at all these networks lying about the people.
00:00:17.000 The people have had a belly full of it.
00:00:19.000 I know you don't like hearing that.
00:00:20.000 I know you try to do everything in the world to stop that,
00:00:22.000 but you're not going to stop it.
00:00:23.000 It's going to happen.
00:00:24.000 And where do people like that go to share the big lie?
00:00:27.000 Mega Media.
00:00:29.000 I wish in my soul, I wish that any of these people had a conscience.
00:00:34.000 Ask yourself, what is my task and what is my purpose?
00:00:38.000 If that answer is to save my country, this country will be saved.
00:00:44.000 War Room. Here's your host, Stephen K. Banff.
00:00:50.000 It's Saturday, 27 December in the year of our Lord, 2025.
00:00:53.000 Okay.
00:00:54.000 Today, as you know, the Saturday show is my favorite show of the week.
00:01:00.000 And this is our last Saturday show for this year.
00:01:03.000 I wanted to do something a little special, so I invited one of my favorite people,
00:01:06.000 the great historian, Larry Swiker, to join us.
00:01:09.000 And we're going to spend the next couple of hours going through not just American history,
00:01:14.000 but also how it applies to today.
00:01:17.000 I want to start off, though, because I haven't had the opportunity to do this yet,
00:01:21.000 is to, I want to play the speech I gave at AmFest, which some people think was a little controversial.
00:01:28.000 I don't happen to think it's that controversial, but I want to break it down for you.
00:01:32.000 I asked Larry to do this with me.
00:01:34.000 So let's go ahead, and I'm going to go, we're going to go right back to last Friday at AmFest.
00:01:41.000 I don't know, it was about 8 o'clock in the evening East Coast time, I think 5 or 6 o'clock there,
00:01:49.000 when I gave a 15 or 16-minute speech.
00:01:51.000 We're going to play its entirety.
00:01:53.000 Then I'm going to break it down when we come back.
00:01:56.000 Let's go ahead and play it.
00:01:57.000 Thank you, thank you.
00:02:00.000 We are at war!
00:02:06.000 You know how we know this?
00:02:08.000 You just heard Hawkins up here a few minutes ago, right?
00:02:11.000 What did she say at the very moment Charlie Kirk was assassinated?
00:02:16.000 What, the University of Montana?
00:02:19.000 They laughed in her face, right?
00:02:22.000 Laughed in her face, and some guy goes, oh, we're at war.
00:02:26.000 We're at war.
00:02:28.000 Charlie Kirk knew we were at war.
00:02:30.000 Every time I've spoken at any event of Turning Point, I always start with that,
00:02:37.000 because Charlie Kirk knew one thing.
00:02:39.000 He knew we were at war, and he knew we were going to be victorious if we didn't quit.
00:02:45.000 But what do I mean by that?
00:02:50.000 Let's go back.
00:02:51.000 Do you understand, for the last 10 years, there have been eight national elections,
00:03:00.000 either primaries, off-year elections where Congress is voted on for the whole nation,
00:03:07.000 or presidential elections.
00:03:10.000 We have won seven of those eight.
00:03:14.000 This is why they hated Charlie Kirk.
00:03:20.000 It wasn't Charlie Kirk's philosophy or even his debates.
00:03:24.000 Charlie Kirk was a tough, tough person that built a machine that you guys are dedicated to that delivered victories.
00:03:34.000 Let's be specific.
00:03:35.000 Go back to 2015.
00:03:37.000 President Trump, 15, 16, wins the primary against all odds.
00:03:41.000 Then in 16, he wins a come-from-behind, you know, once-in-a-lifetime victory against Hillary Clinton.
00:03:49.000 We lost the 18 midterms, because people were leaning on their rakes, leaning on their rakes,
00:03:55.000 and we lost, I don't know, 35 or 40 House seats, and Nancy Pelosi told us exactly what she was going to do. 0.99
00:04:02.000 She impeached Trump and almost brought it all down. 0.98
00:04:06.000 President Trump came back, won the primary, right, very easily.
00:04:10.000 Nobody really ran against him.
00:04:11.000 I don't think anybody ran against him.
00:04:13.000 2020, we won the 2020 election.
00:04:18.000 Is there any dispute on that?
00:04:21.000 If you don't believe that, you don't believe a foundational element of the MAGA movement.
00:04:26.000 We won 2020.
00:04:28.000 And to show you how we won it, we picked up 14 House seats that night.
00:04:33.000 14 House seats.
00:04:36.000 Then President Trump went into the wilderness.
00:04:39.000 This is when Charlie Kirk really, I think, stepped up the most.
00:04:43.000 President Trump was sent to Mar-a-Lago.
00:04:45.000 They never thought he was coming back.
00:04:46.000 The Republican Party never thought he was coming back.
00:04:49.000 And what happened?
00:04:51.000 President Trump grinded it out.
00:04:52.000 In fact, he told us on this stage last year right here, the first time he told anybody.
00:04:58.000 When Charlie had him come out here and speak, what did he say?
00:05:01.000 He said, I had to run again because I could not let them steal an election because they're stealing the country.
00:05:09.000 And we see what Biden did.
00:05:14.000 Then, we win the midterms in 22.
00:05:18.000 We picked up about 11 seats, eight net, and took the House of Representatives.
00:05:21.000 There were supposed to be more, but we got control of the House.
00:05:25.000 And then, and really the greatest come from behind ever.
00:05:29.000 President Trump, turning point, put him on their shoulders.
00:05:34.000 We won the greatest election in the history of the country.
00:05:38.000 In 10 years, in 10 years, a decade, you've been beaten once when we leaned on our shovels.
00:05:55.000 Charlie Kirk understood one thing.
00:05:58.000 We are at war.
00:06:00.000 It's a political war.
00:06:02.000 It's a, what, a cold civil war.
00:06:04.000 We don't want it to turn hot.
00:06:06.000 We don't need it to turn hot if we accomplish what we're supposed to accomplish.
00:06:11.000 And we have won seven of eight national elections.
00:06:15.000 The American people are with us as long as we get things done,
00:06:19.000 as long as we accomplish the punch list that Rob Snyder talked about when he walked down this stage.
00:06:24.000 That's what's incumbent upon us, and that's what the Republican establishment today,
00:06:29.000 because you can already see what they're doing in trying to block President Trump.
00:06:34.000 You see this in Indianapolis.
00:06:36.000 You see this in the redistricting.
00:06:38.000 The Republican establishment think that President Trump's just a passing storm,
00:06:43.000 and that he's just going to fade away.
00:06:45.000 And what they're going to try to do is co-opt, co-opt turning point,
00:06:50.000 because Charlie has built it into a massive political operation that cannot be beat.
00:06:57.000 And the left knows that.
00:06:58.000 It's one of the reasons, yes, I realize we haven't gone to trial yet.
00:07:01.000 We don't know all the information.
00:07:03.000 It looks like, you know, at least the information we have out, it may be this guy.
00:07:08.000 Maybe not an organization in the back of it.
00:07:11.000 We don't know that yet because the evidence hasn't been put out.
00:07:14.000 But Charlie Kirk is dead.
00:07:18.000 Think about that.
00:07:20.000 Think about that.
00:07:21.000 The individual that's probably, I think, at his age, the greatest individual this country's produced politically, culturally, since the revolution.
00:07:32.000 Remember, all of the revolution with 30. 0.99
00:07:34.000 Charlie Kirk, hell, he's 31 years old.
00:07:37.000 He's been doing this since he was 18, 17 or 18.
00:07:40.000 But Charlie Kirk was a man of action.
00:07:45.000 And here's, I want to make sure that we get something straight tonight.
00:07:48.000 We have a partner's discussion.
00:07:50.000 And I want to say up front, if I hurt some feelings here, you can come and talk to me afterwards.
00:07:57.000 This whole thing that's gone on the last couple of days, some of the comments tonight, this is not about this specific incident.
00:08:06.000 It's not about freedom of speech or platforming or deplatforming.
00:08:10.000 They're all talking about that.
00:08:11.000 And that's, you know, people are saying hurtful things to each other.
00:08:16.000 Tucker said the quiet part out loud.
00:08:19.000 This is a proxy on 28.
00:08:23.000 Now, I think it's way too early to be thinking about 28.
00:08:27.000 But he's right about one thing.
00:08:29.000 This is a proxy on an issue that's not freedom of speech.
00:08:34.000 And not, are you going to get platformed or deplatformed?
00:08:37.000 This is about a situation that Charlie Kirk was probably one of the most, if not the most important person in doing and accomplishing.
00:08:52.000 And that is this concept of what I would call greater Israel and Israel first. 0.95
00:08:59.000 You can't get a better defender of Israel than Charlie Kirk.
00:09:05.000 You can't get a better defender of Israel than Steve Bannon.
00:09:09.000 At Breitbart, adamant, couldn't have a two-state solution.
00:09:13.000 In the White House, I'm the one that pushed initially hard to move the embassy to Jerusalem.
00:09:19.000 At War Room, ask all the War Room people that are here.
00:09:23.000 Ask all the posse.
00:09:25.000 We always talk about it.
00:09:26.000 And we're one state, not a two-state.
00:09:28.000 But that's about Israel.
00:09:31.000 It's not about greater Israel.
00:09:33.000 And it's not about Israel first.
00:09:35.000 Charlie Kirk had some foundational beliefs.
00:09:39.000 Those foundational beliefs are, number one, he's a populist nationalist.
00:09:44.000 America makes its own decisions for America.
00:09:53.000 And as a populist, the American people are the people that make those decisions.
00:09:59.000 Now, Benji Shapiro sat up here last night.
00:10:03.000 And he was all, you know, I'm going to, you know, it's all about the truth.
00:10:07.000 Ben, I've known you a long time, brother, you can't handle the truth.
00:10:17.000 Let's face it, Ben Shapiro is the farthest thing from MAGA.
00:10:21.000 Let's be blunt.
00:10:25.000 He is a hardcore never-Trumper. 0.96
00:10:28.000 He's a hardcore never-Trumper. 0.98
00:10:30.000 In the spring of 16, he tried to upend Breitbart.
00:10:35.000 He walked off the job, made a big deal about some incident in Mar-a-Lago with Corey Lewandowski.
00:10:40.000 He tried to turn it to Ted Cruz from Donald Trump because he hated Donald Trump.
00:10:45.000 In the general election, he barely supported Donald Trump.
00:10:49.000 The first sign of when President Trump gets sent back to Mar-a-Lago,
00:10:53.000 the very first individual that jumped on the Ron DeSantis train, the Israel first train, was Ben Shapiro.
00:11:02.000 And those are the darkest days we had.
00:11:05.000 In 21 and 22, you guys were there.
00:11:08.000 He's consistently been against Trump, and now that President Trump doesn't back the Greater Israel Project.
00:11:14.000 What is Greater Israel?
00:11:15.000 It's not about Israel itself.
00:11:17.000 It's about an expansionist Israel, an imperial Israel, that Netanyahu and that crowd have thought up.
00:11:24.000 And the Israel first crowd is Ben Shapiro, Tel Aviv Mark Levin, and many others that want to put that ahead of America's interests.
00:11:38.000 Charlie Kirk fought that.
00:11:40.000 You know where Charlie Kirk fought it?
00:11:42.000 In the White House.
00:11:43.000 I know, because I was there.
00:11:45.000 When I went back, Charlie Kirk was working with Sergio Gore, certain people around their vice president,
00:11:51.000 to make sure that we didn't get sucked into a land war, a decapitation of the Iranian elites 1.00
00:11:58.000 that would lead to a massive civil war that American troops would get sucked into,
00:12:02.000 because that was Netanyahu's plan from the beginning.
00:12:06.000 And we know that.
00:12:07.000 The Times of Israel has published that there was no urgency to go after the nuclear weapons.
00:12:13.000 We know the fact they couldn't finish what they started.
00:12:15.000 We know for a fact.
00:12:17.000 We know for a fact that they needed American Aegis-fed missiles patriots to defend themselves.
00:12:24.000 On day 10 of the war, they were losing.
00:12:26.000 And they didn't have the offensive capability.
00:12:29.000 And I don't mean the B2s coming in and taking out the caves. 0.99
00:12:33.000 They relied upon our 1970s technology of cruise missiles fired from submarines in the North Arabian Sea to take out the above ground.
00:12:43.000 We had to bring that war to inclusion.
00:12:45.000 And President Trump and his brilliance said,
00:12:47.000 we'll do that and we'll call it the 12-day war and it's over.
00:12:50.000 Now, for the Israel first crowd, they are the ones that are destroying Israel. 1.00
00:12:57.000 Today in Miami, who's negotiating with Whitcoff?
00:13:02.000 It's the Turks, it's Qatar, it's the Egyptians. 1.00
00:13:05.000 Because Qatar is going to underwrite Gaza and 2 million Palestinians are going to stay there. 0.98
00:13:12.000 And the Turks are providing on Egyptian soil called Gaza, or on Israel soil called Gaza, 0.88
00:13:19.000 is going to provide the military control mechanism over UAE troops, Saudi troops, and Egyptian troops.
00:13:26.000 That's a two-state solution that has been provided because of the efforts of the Israel first crowd.
00:13:34.000 And Charlie Kirk had one simple thing that he thought about.
00:13:38.000 Who controls America and who makes decisions for the United States of America? 0.76
00:13:45.000 And Charlie Kirk worked overtime because behind the scenes he was a player.
00:13:50.000 Not just helping Sergio get all types of great people in there and vet those people,
00:13:55.000 but actually talking about policy.
00:13:58.000 And part of that policy was no more foreign wars.
00:14:03.000 Charlie absolutely believed what I believe.
00:14:10.000 The Middle East is a sideshow and Israel is a sideshow to a sideshow. 1.00
00:14:14.000 Now, voices out there that support Israel, like Laura Loomer and Rabbi Walicki and others,
00:14:21.000 are coming forward and saying, look, maybe Bannon and these guys are right.
00:14:25.000 We don't want to take any more American money.
00:14:27.000 We don't have any more American control.
00:14:29.000 We want to go out and do what we want to do when we, the Israelis, feel they have to do it. 0.91
00:14:34.000 I support that 100%.
00:14:36.000 Israel needs its sovereignty.
00:14:38.000 Israel needs to be independent. 0.73
00:14:39.000 If Israel wants to take on Syria, go for it. 0.99
00:14:42.000 If Israel wants to go into Lebanon, go for it. 1.00
00:14:45.000 But not drag the United States of America into another endless war.
00:14:50.000 Ask Megyn Kelly when she comes up here. 1.00
00:15:01.000 Look, Breitbart, Shapiro called Breitbart Trump Pravda.
00:15:07.000 When he left, he called it Trump Pravda.
00:15:09.000 And he was kind of right.
00:15:11.000 We had to be.
00:15:12.000 There was no other news site that was supporting President Trump.
00:15:14.000 When poor Megyn Kelly came out in that first debate and made what looks like now some innocuous questions. 1.00
00:15:19.000 Right?
00:15:20.000 About Trump's Facebook page or his Twitter feed.
00:15:23.000 About Rosie O'Donnell and others.
00:15:26.000 Have Jack Posobiec ask her how it turned out.
00:15:29.000 We unleashed the dogs.
00:15:30.000 We were maniacs.
00:15:31.000 Why?
00:15:32.000 President Trump had no backing.
00:15:33.000 Had no backing at Fox.
00:15:35.000 Had no backing at the National Review.
00:15:37.000 And at 16, that would driven him out of the race.
00:15:40.000 So we had to be there.
00:15:42.000 But Ben Shapiro is like a cancer.
00:15:45.000 And that cancer spreads.
00:15:52.000 It's a cancer and it metastasizes.
00:15:55.000 He tried to take over Breitbart and I ran him out of there.
00:15:58.000 He tried to take over David Horowitz, who was his mentor.
00:16:02.000 Don't ask me.
00:16:03.000 Ask the guys associated with David Horowitz what he did there.
00:16:06.000 He tried to take that over.
00:16:07.000 And mark my word.
00:16:09.000 He will make a move on turning point.
00:16:12.000 Because he's always been envious of Charlie Kirk.
00:16:21.000 This is not about speech.
00:16:22.000 It's not about de-platforming.
00:16:24.000 This is about power politics.
00:16:26.000 And what Charlie Kirk believed in.
00:16:28.000 To the core of his being.
00:16:31.000 That America makes decisions for America. 0.56
00:16:34.000 And Americans make decisions for America.
00:16:38.000 That was Charlie Kirk.
00:16:40.000 That's...
00:16:41.000 Why the hell...
00:16:42.000 Why the hell do you think they assassinated him?
00:16:44.000 Why did they put the poison all over this place?
00:16:46.000 Why did they mock and ridicule?
00:16:48.000 James Carville said yesterday that Rob Reiner has done a hundred times more than Charlie Kirk.
00:16:52.000 They hate Charlie Kirk.
00:16:53.000 They hate Charlie Kirk.
00:16:54.000 Because Charlie Kirk brought victories.
00:16:57.000 And with victory after victory after victory, that's when we can re-Christianize this country. 0.98
00:17:03.000 What was Charlie Kirk's lesson?
00:17:05.000 That we were a Christian nation that got off the rails.
00:17:08.000 We have to re-Christianize this country. 1.00
00:17:20.000 You are in the shadows of a giant.
00:17:24.000 Not just an American patriot.
00:17:26.000 And an American hero.
00:17:29.000 Charlie Kirk is a Christian martyr.
00:17:33.000 And Charlie Kirk is a Christian saint.
00:17:36.000 That is your legacy that you take up.
00:17:39.000 The day I went into prison.
00:17:41.000 The day I went into prison.
00:17:43.000 We passed the show to Charlie Kirk as we did oftentimes in the three and a half years
00:17:47.000 that Charlie Posobiec and I had that block at Real America's Voice.
00:17:50.000 And what Charlie said...
00:17:52.000 I said to Charlie, next man up.
00:17:54.000 Charlie said, I got it.
00:17:55.000 Next man up.
00:17:56.000 Are you next man up?
00:17:58.000 Are you going to fill the shoes of Charlie Kirk?
00:18:00.000 Do you have the stones to do it?
00:18:03.000 Do you have the guts to do it?
00:18:06.000 Ask yourself that.
00:18:07.000 Because I tell you what.
00:18:09.000 That's what's...
00:18:10.000 You in this room right here are going to decide whether we win in 26.
00:18:14.000 And if we don't win in 26, they're going to bring holy hell down on us.
00:18:19.000 We have to win.
00:18:21.000 Charlie Kirk knew that.
00:18:23.000 And you know that.
00:18:24.000 Thank you very much.
00:18:25.000 Next man up.
00:18:26.000 Okay, welcome back.
00:18:30.000 And I want to thank our production team in Denver.
00:18:33.000 My own production team here because we're doing the first part of the show a little differently.
00:18:37.000 We don't take that break up in the middle of the show.
00:18:39.000 We're going to kind of float this one.
00:18:45.000 Why did I think that was important?
00:18:46.000 Number one, the...
00:18:49.000 A lot of this conversation and debate had gotten around the First Amendment and around platform.
00:18:54.000 Who's going to be platform?
00:18:55.000 Who's not going to be platform?
00:18:57.000 Who's talking to...
00:18:58.000 Who's putting these people on shows, etc.
00:19:01.000 Not that I don't think that's important.
00:19:03.000 I just don't think it's signal.
00:19:05.000 I think it's noise.
00:19:06.000 The important things, I believe, are the underlying policies that are driving the movement, maybe a part of people aren't coalescing around.
00:19:17.000 And I want to be very specific.
00:19:18.000 I talked about this, you know, earlier in the week on, I think it was the Tuesday...
00:19:25.000 I don't think it was Christmas Eve, but the Tuesday show, I had Rabbi Willicki in, in the morning, which he talked about, you know, the situation in Syria and Rabbi Willicki and Laura Loomer, who I name checked right there, talk about Israeli, Israel sovereignty and our independence.
00:19:41.000 Well, let's say subsequent to that, it came out in the papers that Ron Dermer, who I worked very closely with in the first Trump administration, particularly Ron was, I think he was ambassador from Israel to the United States at the time.
00:19:58.000 And just a brilliant guy.
00:20:00.000 Also, somebody worked with us very closely on moving the embassy to Jerusalem.
00:20:04.000 He is now, it's now been announced that he's working on a strategic plan underneath Prime Minister Netanyahu.
00:20:13.000 And that plan is to wait for it, draw down all American assistance, starting the MOU we have as a kind of ally or we don't really, we're not really an ally, but this kind of partnership.
00:20:27.000 Outlining this memorandum of understanding runs out in 2028.
00:20:31.000 And there had been talk before is that, oh, they're going to do, you know, one that's going to be a hundred billion dollars and it's going to last for 50 years.
00:20:38.000 And, you know, the neocons are all upset that these populists are, you know, talking about Israel and not defensive Israel.
00:20:47.000 This is not about the defense of Israel.
00:20:49.000 As I said in that speech, this is about the greater Israel project and people that are Israel first. 0.86
00:20:55.000 It's two totally different things.
00:20:58.000 And now you see Netanyahu's governments responding to that.
00:21:03.000 What they're doing is saying, hey, at the end of the MOU this time, instead of extending for 50 years with a two trillion dollar deal or whatever they were talking about a couple of weeks ago, we're actually going to draw down.
00:21:16.000 We want to do a memorandum of understanding that actually draws down to no American assistance.
00:21:22.000 So as Rabbi Walicki talked about that, they can have, you know, freedom of movement in places like Syria or even Iran.
00:21:31.000 As I said before, an independent and sovereign Israel, if they want to take on Turkey and Syria, if they want to do if they want to go after the Persians, as long as they're not drawn, drawn us into it.
00:21:43.000 And if we're not giving them five billion a year and that's the minimum we give them, there's all types of other support system.
00:21:49.000 But if we don't and they're sovereign and independent, make their own decisions as they should, because they shouldn't be a protectorate of the United States.
00:21:56.000 They don't need to be a protector of the United States, obviously, since the interest of both countries are going to go in different directions.
00:22:02.000 What do I mean by that? Well, look, it's you know, the policy right now of the U.S. government is very much that it's a two state solution, something I fought against ever since I've kind of gotten involved in politics.
00:22:14.000 You have a two state solution. You have it because of the overreach of the overreach, I think, of the Israel first crowd in this greater Israel project, which is to expand Israel out into Lebanon, into Syria, into Iraq, all the way to the two to Iran, into Egypt and the Sinai. 0.83
00:22:34.000 And it's just not feasible and it can't be done. It certainly can't be done with American support because that would draw us into one conflict after the other. Netanyahu understands this.
00:22:44.000 Now, I don't want to take credit for it. I don't want to take credit for it. I won't take full credit for it. But I've been hammering this one for a while and people have gone out of their way, particularly the Israel first crowd has gone out of their way to kind of, you know, change what the conversation is really about. 0.77
00:22:58.880 This is what it's about. And now that you have Ron Dermer, who I think is one of the smartest strategic thinkers in Israel, and that you have Ron Dermer under the guidance of Netanyahu actually coming forward and going to put forward a proposal.
00:23:14.000 To say we want Israel to be independent and sovereign. I think that's a step in the right direction. I want to bring in Larry Swiker. Larry, would you start, you really got interested in Trump as a, as kind of not just a person, but a force of history.
00:23:31.140 Was it in 2014 or 2015? Because I remember when I was at Breitbart and then when I took over the campaign in, in August of 2016, you already had a pretty definitive outlook on, on, on, on the MAGA movement.
00:23:46.700 What, what, what, give me your thoughts. When did you really start looking at Trump as someone that you thought would actually have an impact and was speaking totally differently than the traditional Republicans that you had covered so closely?
00:24:00.000 In 2015, sometime early in 2015, I met Ted Cruz and talked to him a lot. And at that time I thought, and this is going to be the guy.
00:24:09.540 But after I had conversations with him, I go, now there's something missing there. And it was about that time that I was on vacation in Arizona and I noticed that Trump was on TV and they had to move his speech from the Arizona Biltmore Hotel, which is good, but it's, it doesn't have a big auditorium, to the Arizona Convention Center in downtown Phoenix, which seats 10,000.
00:24:35.200 And I thought there's something to this. You don't do this every day. This guy must have something. He must be saying something that people are responding to.
00:24:43.940 Now, you know, as well as I do, that in 26, 2006, President Bush had attempted with this gang of eight, a illegal immigration reform that was going to be a basic form of amnesty.
00:24:58.040 And people revolted at the time. Rush Limbaugh engaged in the only request he ever made for people to call into D.C. on an issue. And they shut that down.
00:25:08.740 But no one between that time and the end of Obama's term was talking at all about illegal immigration except Donald Trump.
00:25:17.280 And I thought this guy gets it. Now, if he has any other policies that are along with that one, he's going to be a force.
00:25:25.800 And by the end of 2015, I was telling everybody who had listened he was going to win the Republican nomination.
00:25:35.320 I won some famous bets that people welched on. But nevertheless, I predicted that.
00:25:39.720 And then, you know, in 2016, I started to follow the voter registration patterns in about seven or eight key swing states.
00:25:48.580 And they were all pointing toward a narrow Trump victory.
00:25:52.940 And so I said in my book, why how Trump won, which came out came out after the election, but it was written before the election that Trump was going to win.
00:26:02.620 And I said was between three hundred and three twenty electoral votes. And the final was three or four.
00:26:10.420 What was it about? Because here, this is why I started off with the speech about you're going through you go through different times in American political history where the issues just things change.
00:26:21.900 Right. The country or underlying forces. What was it about?
00:26:26.100 Because you, correct me if I'm wrong, you you come at things very much as a classic limited government, maximum liberty, maybe not a libertarian, but small government, lower taxes, low involvement in your life.
00:26:43.580 Conservative, which Israel was, you know, one of the central parts of the foreign policy, the Republican Party.
00:26:48.560 But you came at things in a pretty standard, in a pretty classical way that the Ted Cruz was really in that vertical for that 16, 15, 16 primary.
00:26:59.480 Ted Cruz was the guy for that vertical. Right. He was he was the guy that was running as that guy. Correct.
00:27:05.180 Yeah. Yeah. The thing is, and I've written a biography of Reagan.
00:27:10.860 Reagan, I don't think, foresaw what was going to happen with the open borders eventually with NAFTA, with that kind of stuff.
00:27:17.840 I think he really believed in the 1980s that that that free total free trade, regardless of what our trade opponents were doing to us, that it would still carry the day.
00:27:28.840 It's the old Milton Friedman argument that free trade will win no matter what.
00:27:33.140 Well, that may be true if you can sustain yourself over a few hundred years.
00:27:36.780 But as we was becoming clear by the end of the Reagan administration, there was a hollowing out of American business going overseas.
00:27:45.400 And again, Trump in mid-2015 started to talk about that in ways nobody else was.
00:27:53.320 And I said, well, yeah, I'm a free trader, but we don't have free trade with China and with much of Europe, because even though they may or may not have tariffs, some did, some didn't.
00:28:04.340 Nevertheless, they were restricting trade on their shelves.
00:28:07.140 So I began to see Trump as a transitional figure away from the classical Republican Party of a strong foreign policy,
00:28:24.060 a very interventionist foreign policy, and one, a Republican Party that didn't pay any attention at all to the lower middle class or the blue collar,
00:28:35.480 truly middle middle class, that they were really more of an upper middle class party.
00:28:41.220 And I saw Trump hitting all of these buttons.
00:28:44.960 And I said, well, you know, if the thesis doesn't fit the evidence, you better change your thesis.
00:28:52.000 And so I started to see Trump's value, which Lenin would never do, by the way.
00:28:58.620 I started to see Trump's value.
00:29:00.760 And I began to predict well before the election that he not only would win, but he would win fairly easily.
00:29:07.960 So, yeah.
00:29:10.140 Hey, Larry, hang on for one second.
00:29:11.500 I want to get more into this, because I want to talk about your books.
00:29:14.460 You're one out now about the 21st century coming out.
00:29:18.660 And it's a good way, I think, to have people collect their thoughts and think about things towards the end of the year as we get ready for what will be a quite intense year for MAGA 2026.
00:29:29.220 Short commercial break, Larry Schweikert, the historian, co-author of The Patriot's History of the United States, a blockbuster bestseller.
00:29:39.080 Capital markets are turbulent.
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00:31:32.360 War Room.
00:31:33.380 Here's your host, Stephen K. Mann.
00:31:35.740 Welcome back.
00:31:41.060 In 2015, Chris Cruz was going to be that guy for the classical limited government conservatives.
00:31:48.040 And I was running Breitbart at the time, so I knew it took a lot of incoming from those, as Ben Shapiro accuses me of turning Breitbart into Trump Pravda.
00:31:57.000 When did you know, back in 2015, when did you know that, hey, Trump really is, I know it was about the Phoenix thing, which I think was the first big rally he had, I think it was right after he announced in June, late June of, before the first debate that Fox had, late June of 2015.
00:32:15.180 But what did your friends, you're incredibly well-known.
00:32:17.680 I've done a ton of stuff with you before where you teach at all these groups that try to bring in youth, right?
00:32:26.880 I guess you and Peter Schweitzer, you always teach.
00:32:30.100 You were very involved in the classical conservative side of Republican politics.
00:32:36.060 What kind of blowback did you get from people that respect you?
00:32:40.000 And plus, you were a huge name because you had done the blockbuster that I think Glenn Beck had talked about and sent it to number one.
00:32:48.320 I believe it's the most published history book in the history of the country, the Patriots' history of the United States.
00:32:55.480 You were kind of a conservative celebrity.
00:32:58.660 When you became an apostate, how were you treated?
00:33:01.260 Yeah, I lost some friends, or there's a number of people I can't discuss politics with on the right.
00:33:11.440 A number of people, especially a lot of those at NRO that I used to correspond with, to me just simply went nuts.
00:33:21.420 They went crazy.
00:33:22.260 That's the national review that I did a four-hour, in fact, just playing over the holidays, I did a four-hour and one-hour segments interview with Sam Tannenhaus that wrote the biography of Buckley.
00:33:36.400 People love, but Buckley's national review is not the national review today.
00:33:40.240 In fact, in the spring, in March of 2016, they put up the Never Trump or Against Trump, which had all the names on the front of people that were prominent conservatives that were going to oppose Trump under any circumstances.
00:33:57.040 So national reviews of the traditional – a lot of people, I'm sure, on that cover were guys saying, hey, Larry, you're one of us.
00:34:04.320 What are you doing here with a populist nationalist?
00:34:07.080 You know, I had the privilege of introducing William F. Buckley at a speech in Santa Barbara, and me and the female president of the Young Republicans there.
00:34:19.840 And Buckley came on stage, and he said, well, Mr. Schweikart proves that the term young intellectual conservative is not an oxymoron.
00:34:30.140 And people, of course, are flipping through their dictionaries to figure out what he meant.
00:34:34.220 But, yeah, there were a number of people who I thought surely they would just look at the evidence.
00:34:41.260 And it wasn't whether or not you agreed with Trump's policies, which I did, but I was trying to convince them, look, all you have to do is look at the polling.
00:34:51.320 Look at the voter registration, and you'll see he's going to be the candidate.
00:34:55.700 I said this over and over in 2015, and even when Trump took the lead there, I think it was in June or so, and never gave it up except for one two- or three-week period to Ben Carson in October.
00:35:09.840 He never lost the lead in the entire Republican primary the rest of that time, and it was usually a very big lead.
00:35:15.380 And they refused to believe that he was going to be the nominee.
00:35:19.380 I said, no, easily he's going to be the nominee.
00:35:21.600 And I believed at that time most Republicans could have beaten Hillary Clinton.
00:35:26.460 But I came to change my mind, and I came to understand that politics had changed a great deal from Ronald Reagan's day to Donald Trump's day.
00:35:36.840 You know, I make a point to my students that Abraham Lincoln, with his high, screechy voice and his long-winded speeches, would never have made it on radio because his voice wouldn't have been a voice for radio.
00:35:50.620 But Franklin Roosevelt had a perfect voice for radio, but he never would have made it in the age of television in the 60s or 70s because there was still a bias against handicapped people.
00:36:01.300 So Ronald Reagan was perfect for television in the 70s and 80s because he was so photogenic.
00:36:08.400 He memorized the lines easily, didn't have to use a teleprompter, really.
00:36:12.860 But I don't think Reagan would make it today because our politics have become much harder-edged, you know, elbow-swinging, if you will.
00:36:22.400 It's the difference between, I don't know, the Boston Celtics of Bill Russell and the Detroit Pistons of Bill Ambeer.
00:36:30.000 It's just a totally different political world that Trump was particularly attuned to navigating because he didn't mince words.
00:36:40.940 He didn't speak Washingtonese.
00:36:43.360 He's told you exactly what he thinks, which I think has become an amazing strategic strength of his over time.
00:36:51.640 You know, I used to reach out to you because this is what impressed me so much.
00:36:56.140 You were a historian and a famous historian, but you had this knowledge of the country going through a change.
00:37:01.700 What are the historical forces?
00:37:03.520 Because so many people I knew at the time, the Dave Bosses, really people, close friends who were starting to become Trump people, really their ideal was Ronald Reagan.
00:37:13.660 And Trump's a lot of things, but he's not Ronald Reagan.
00:37:15.600 What were the forces at work that from the end of the kind of Reagan era in 88, not even taking the Bush, you know, Reagan's third term, what were the forces that drove it that a populist nationalist with a celebrity with zero political experience?
00:37:33.940 And not just political experience, but at the time he wasn't, you know, he he he wasn't on the Council of Foreign Relations.
00:37:41.060 He hadn't he had any military experience.
00:37:43.320 He didn't really go out of his way to be try to be a public intellectual.
00:37:47.740 He was truly an entrepreneur and a business guy.
00:37:51.380 But what were the underlying forces that you said made it harder edge and made that made the issues different than the 15?
00:38:01.000 Because the Republican Party have spent billions of dollars getting each one of the candidates ready in the 15 and 16 primary.
00:38:09.520 You know, you had the Libertarians with Rand Paul.
00:38:11.320 You had kind of the the broader tent people with Ben Carson.
00:38:15.860 You had the corporate people with, you know, some of the corporate candidates.
00:38:20.040 You had the Bush, you know, the Bush regime.
00:38:23.680 You had Marco Rubio that had kind of been picture perfect.
00:38:27.120 Yeah, don't forget Bobby Jindal.
00:38:28.000 Bobby Jindal, you had all. Yeah, you had.
00:38:30.940 So you had all of these and then Trump.
00:38:34.000 What had changed in the country, the underlying historical forces?
00:38:38.720 Well, the obvious change was NAFTA and the hollowing out of American industry.
00:38:45.680 Nobody nobody like Mitt Romney could possibly run on reindustrializing America.
00:38:51.820 They just their heart wasn't in it.
00:38:53.760 They didn't believe it could happen.
00:38:55.280 You know, Obama said all those jobs are never coming back again.
00:38:59.020 What's he going to do? Wave a magic wand.
00:39:01.400 Well, actually, you change a few policies and you do have a a magic wand.
00:39:06.420 Trump was speaking to all of those people that had been let down both by Bush and by Obama.
00:39:13.760 And when you go through books that that have traced the 2016 election, they're very clear on the number of people who voted for Obama twice and then who turned around and voted for Trump, particularly in the key swing counties of Ohio and Wisconsin and Michigan and Pennsylvania.
00:39:36.220 So there was the economic factor, but also there was a cultural factor at work.
00:39:43.620 Our society has moved now very, very fast.
00:39:46.860 It is the whole society is moving fast.
00:39:49.220 Our communication networks are much faster with cell phones.
00:39:53.040 And that put a premium on personality and on celebrity status, whereby you didn't have to spend five years building up a political name that people would recognize.
00:40:07.240 Trump walked into politics, even though he'd never been in politics before, as a well-known figure because he was on television so much.
00:40:16.100 And so that was a major change.
00:40:18.840 And then lastly, this idea of speaking very clearly about issues without going into, on the other hand, you know, Ronald Reagan had that great saying that he wanted to meet a one-armed economist.
00:40:33.060 So he would never say, but on the other hand, and Trump would do that.
00:40:37.600 And he was coarse and he was he was often profane in various ways.
00:40:41.820 And he would say things that many people wouldn't say.
00:40:44.540 And that was precisely the point.
00:40:46.540 What he did say was the very stuff that average people say all the time.
00:40:51.660 And so let me segue to what just happened here over the last three months.
00:40:55.840 Over the last three months, we have seen the media, or as I like to call it, the hoax news media, consumed by the Kennedy Center renaming, by a tweet or a truth post that Trump made about Rob Reiner, and then before that about the ballroom.
00:41:15.560 Now, relatively speaking, these are utterly irrelevant things in the lives of most Americans, yet that's what not only X and Twitter and all these places were spending all their time on, talking about how horrible it was, what Trump was doing.
00:41:29.460 But in the meanwhile, Trump was just getting rid of 2.5 million illegal aliens.
00:41:35.800 He basically reorganized all of Latin America, except for Colombia, Venezuela, and Argentina, into a kind of MAGA version of Latin America.
00:41:46.960 And he negotiated about four or five ceasefires around the world.
00:41:51.100 And my point has been that Trump now is moving at light speed, and he's moving way too fast for Congress.
00:41:59.460 Congress is almost irrelevant.
00:42:02.240 They got done one bill last year, one bill.
00:42:06.060 Now, by nature, the American House and Senate, going all the way back, were meant to be slow.
00:42:11.920 They didn't want a lot of quick change.
00:42:14.700 So the Congress as it is now constituted is totally out of step with what Trump is doing and how fast he's moving.
00:42:23.300 And I believe, I can't prove it, but I believe that that is what is responsible for 30 House Republicans saying they'll step down and 22 House Democrats saying they'll step down.
00:42:35.680 And just yesterday, Cynthia Loomis, a senator of Wyoming, said she's not going to run, even though she was only elected in 2020, because of, and I quote,
00:42:43.880 quote, exhaustion, and she said, I feel like a sprinter in a marathon.
00:42:48.880 That's Trump.
00:42:54.580 Is it, from the historical point of view, was the, one thing President Trump ran against, really as a populist nationalist, was this, you know, Gore Vidal called it the Uniparty, I think, first, back in the 60s or 70s.
00:43:09.360 But that the official Washington, D.C. has a perspective that they look at things through, and they're Atlanticist, they're globalist, and they really are not, and they're elitist.
00:43:22.340 They're not really interested in the common working man, you can tell this by the policies, and they're not really interested in what the common man or woman, working class or middle class, actually think.
00:43:35.140 Why did no one pick, why was it Trump that kind of picked that up?
00:43:39.360 You know, that's a tough one, is to, he's always had these views.
00:43:44.340 You go back and listen to his testimony before Congress, to what he would say to Oprah Winfrey, read his books.
00:43:50.600 He's always had these views that were, in many ways, more aligned with the middle class and lower middle class than they ever were with the elites.
00:44:00.080 He's just sort of a blue-collar guy that happened to grow up a millionaire, which isn't unusual in American history.
00:44:07.860 We have a lot of those guys who, like Theodore Roosevelt for a long time, was very much attuned to working class people and kind of the middle classes.
00:44:17.080 What it was that Trump saw, I think, has, in fact, changed over the last six or seven years.
00:44:27.300 I think when he came in, he still believed that there was a class of professional politicians that could be reasoned with.
00:44:34.600 That they really did love America and that if he just gave them the right programs, showed them how it would benefit Americans, that he would get support and his programs would sail right through.
00:44:45.480 And I think what he learned in his first term was that most of these people, not all, but most of them are, in fact, there to make sure nothing ever changes.
00:44:57.220 Their goal is to keep the gravy train flowing, especially as you get, like, military kickbacks or whatever.
00:45:04.480 And I'm a strong defense guy, but let's not play games.
00:45:08.640 A lot of these people have major defense portfolios.
00:45:11.540 Larry, hang on, Larry, hang on, hang on, hang on one second.
00:45:14.580 We're going to take a short commercial break.
00:45:17.880 America's populist historian and conservative.
00:45:23.820 What is next?
00:45:25.300 We will fight till they're all gone.
00:45:27.560 We rejoice when there's no more.
00:45:29.460 Let's take down the CCP.
00:45:31.820 War Room.
00:45:32.840 Here's your host, Stephen K. Mann.
00:45:35.160 You know, we started, I think, talking about gold and working with Birch Gold.
00:45:44.080 I think gold is $1,000, 1,100 an ounce.
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00:45:48.380 Silver the same way.
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00:46:13.880 You know, these massive debt, huge deficits, interest payments, you know, up to $2 trillion, I think, in 2035, $2 trillion per year in interest alone.
00:46:24.120 And what the force is against the dollar, and make sure you understand why central banks were going to commence buying gold at record rates, which is what's happened over the last three years.
00:46:34.720 Birchgold.com, end of the dollar empire.
00:46:37.400 It's not that we want the dollar empire to end.
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00:46:41.900 There's many, many benefits of being the prime reserve currency.
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00:47:07.380 Most importantly, get to talk to Philip Patrick and the team over there, which is what this is all about.
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00:47:15.140 Talk to him not just about gold, but also now about silver, which is every couple of days seems to be reaching an all-time high.
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00:48:18.280 Larry, that was, you know, you come across as very scholarly, you know, historian with all these kind of bestsellers.
00:48:27.240 But that's a pretty radical statement you made to end that segment.
00:48:32.000 You said, hey, Trump came in and he was kind of idealistic in the way that he had a bunch of politicians there, even guys in his own party.
00:48:39.340 You know, the Mitch McConnell's on Paul Ryan, all he had to do is put forward the case of why his policies make sense and everything would be nirvana.
00:48:46.840 He didn't realize that the system is actually kind of ossified that they're working against the interests of the American people.
00:48:52.640 And you basically implied or said knowingly working against the interests of the American people to basically feather their own beds, increase their power and make more money.
00:49:02.420 Do you honestly – is that your current beliefs?
00:49:05.560 And if so, given when I read your books on history, I don't come away with that that's – you've had individual bad actors, but you didn't have systemic problems.
00:49:15.940 When did that occur to you?
00:49:19.740 It's been occurring – you know, Eisenhower warned about the military-industrial complex for a lot of reasons.
00:49:26.700 This was one of them, that there would be feedback loops set up in which people in Congress would approve weapons systems because their portfolios had various weapons contractors in them north or, you know, general dynamics, whatever it is.
00:49:43.480 I hate to use the term corrupt, but I would say I think a majority, not all, but a majority of the actors in the House and in the Senate are in fact tied into one lobby or another in such a way so that rationally they say, well, we shouldn't allow this to happen.
00:50:00.840 That will be bad for America.
00:50:02.520 But in fact, if you look at it, they're kind of looking at what they've been used to their entire lives.
00:50:10.120 Let me go to 1995.
00:50:13.700 I see that as a pivotal moment in the minimizing and what I think will be the ultimate loss of almost all power in the House and in the Senate.
00:50:25.080 In 1995, Newt Gingrich and the class of 94, the freshman class that had all these great names in it, went up against Clinton and had a government shutdown.
00:50:36.620 And after a few months of bad media, Newt caved.
00:50:41.560 And he never had the same kind of power after that at all.
00:50:44.980 Well, what has happened since then is that Congress increasingly has been unable to force a showdown over a budget.
00:50:55.520 And either you're going to, you know, shut down the government until somebody agrees to have a budget or you're going to have to impeach whoever is in there.
00:51:04.180 And that's not going to work because you can never convict them.
00:51:08.000 So when you get up to Obama, he spent his entire term really on Obamacare.
00:51:12.760 That was pretty much it.
00:51:15.040 When you get to Trump and his first term after the Democrats took the House, they did nothing except impeach Trump.
00:51:22.920 So you could even say today, I hate to bring this up.
00:51:25.860 I know people are going to screech, but and I'm very optimistic about 2026.
00:51:30.880 Very optimistic.
00:51:32.120 But let's just say the Democrats took both the House and the Senate in 2026.
00:51:36.600 What would be the real practical outcome?
00:51:39.120 How many laws would they pass that Trump would sign?
00:51:41.900 Zero.
00:51:42.980 How many impeachments would they get through?
00:51:45.280 Because you're not going to get 67 votes in the Senate.
00:51:47.780 Zero.
00:51:48.680 So for all intents and purposes, unless Mike Johnson puts on some jets here, there wouldn't be a whole lot of difference between a Democrat Congress in 2027 and what we have now.
00:52:02.120 But the investigative power and the ability to send subpoenas and slow everything down, Larry, hang on.
00:52:11.300 We're going to discuss this for the whole second hour.
00:52:13.040 And I want to put your writings, because the amazing thing about you that I find is not only you're one of our best historians, that you really got Trump early and you're quite practical and pragmatic when it comes to actually understand the basic mechanics of national politics.
00:52:30.540 Larry Schweikert's our guest.
00:52:33.060 I guess he's my co-host, not even a guest for this morning.
00:52:36.600 Our last Saturday show of the year.
00:52:39.740 An extraordinary individual, great writer.
00:52:42.020 He's got a couple of new books come out.
00:52:43.160 We're going to talk about all that.
00:52:44.740 The right stuff is going to take us out.
00:52:47.600 Take your phone.
00:52:48.340 Text Bannon, B-A-N-N-O-N, 9-8-9-8-9-8.
00:52:51.380 The ultimate guide.
00:52:52.380 This guide has no obligations.
00:52:53.940 Totally free.
00:52:54.540 Just get you up to speed on the investing in gold and precious metals in the age of Trump.
00:53:01.400 Talks to you about 401ks, IRAs, all of it.
00:53:03.680 Everything you need to roll over, tax deferred.
00:53:06.200 You'll love it from Birch Gold.
00:53:08.040 You'll get a chance to get access to Philip Patrick and the team over there.
00:53:11.920 Now more than ever, you need to understand the process that drives the value of gold and precious metals.
00:53:19.540 Short commercial break.
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