On today's show, Stephen K. Bannon and Michael Bloomberg's Peter Bergen discuss the Supreme Court's decision in the Wong Kim Ark case. They also discuss the impact of President Trump's appearance on the case, and whether or not it was a good or bad thing.
00:05:39.720You'll find a 100-page playbook there on how to get to at least 1 million deportations in 2026 so that in the years to come, all of the illegals can be deported from the United States.
00:05:49.980It's about getting the system, policies, tactics, and operations and logistics in place, get the train moving down the tracks.
00:05:58.780This is informed by the expertise of people who have worn the badge, led the agencies, led serious operations like Eric Prince, lawyers and advocates all across the country with tremendous grassroots support.
00:06:09.660It is a rock solid plan and it proves that to not do it is a policy choice in and of itself.
00:06:15.200It requires the Trump administration to get over the political hurdle that the big donors don't want them to do and go to work sites and start enforcing the law.
00:06:22.820And let me just make a final point about why putting these things together is so important.
00:06:25.860You know what the oversight projects found out right after Trump won the White House's go-around?
00:06:30.380It said one of the very first things that Democrat attorneys general did was band together for a collective program to sue on birthright citizenship.
00:06:39.280They don't sit back and wait and watch or trust the plan.
00:06:43.500They act, they organize, they push, and even when they're in the minority, they maintain momentum.
00:06:48.480That's why we saw, you know, the Thune plan to defund ICE and CBP passed today, or, you know, the president giving its blessing.
00:06:54.900it's because they push they organize they never give up that's why we formed the mass deportation
00:06:59.880coalition because the agenda was taking on water from the special interests the media they were
00:07:05.100landing the blows you had that axios report about you know james player the white house saying don't
00:07:09.840say mass deportation and we just had saw we've seen enough and so we organized we put together
00:07:14.800the plan and now the american people can take a look at it support it and know that the president's
00:07:19.540campaign promise, this signature campaign promise is doable, justified, and necessary,
00:07:24.920and MAGA still has his back to get it done. Lobbyists be damned.
00:07:30.900Are you recommending that we make this the centerpiece of the midterm elections,
00:07:34.660that this mass deportation action plan be, we just put it up there and say, hey,
00:07:39.140up or down vote, and make this really the driving force, the tip of the spear for the
00:07:44.040midterm elections? It absolutely should be. I mean, it's no secret right now there are some
00:07:48.860issues of base motivation and primary elections are about base motivation. With what's going on
00:07:54.580in foreign policy, the economy, we need to keep this coalition together. And there is a large
00:08:00.100contingent of it. And our polling shows 80% of Trump voters want mass deportation executed.
00:08:05.120They think it'll define his legacy. And so if we want, with all the headwinds that we're against
00:08:09.600right now, people to show up, be animated, we need to see delivery on the mandate. That's why
00:08:14.620we're doing it is to we don't want to see president trump impeached by hordes of democrats again
00:08:19.520we don't want to go through what what that looks like and so we need to get people motivated and
00:08:24.760you do that through fulfilling the promise for mass deportation mike where to one more time i
00:08:31.960want people to go it's 100 pages long we've pushed it out we're going to continue to push it out we're
00:08:35.940going to have other of your coalition members on the next couple of days to go through details
00:08:40.460about this, but where do people go right now on the opening day of you putting it out to go read
00:08:46.480it and think about it? Yeah. MassDeportation.com. Sign up there. If you're part of an organization,
00:08:52.300we want you to join. This thing is growing. People are coming out of the woodworks to join.
00:08:56.760It is going to be massive by the time, you know, we're just even a few more months in.
00:09:00.720And we're on X at Phase 2 Deport. That's the name of the coalition. I'm at M Howell Tweets and the
00:09:05.820oversight project a member of the coalition is that it's your gov a lot of coordinates there
00:09:10.900but a lot of action we don't sleep around here okay we're gonna get it up mike howell thank you
00:09:16.780great day to put it out fantastic mike davis want to thank you for joining us you're my co-host this
00:09:22.260morning although we never made it to air because it was so i think amazing for the audience to
00:09:27.480listen to the entire thing talk to me about uh your john sour i thought did a magnificent job
00:09:32.660Give us your best thoughts about this, Vice-Rory.
00:09:36.620Yes, Trump Solicitor General John Sauer did a phenomenal job today.
00:09:42.200He made a compelling case why the 14th Amendment does not provide birthright citizenship to illegal aliens,
00:09:52.420just like it did not provide birthright citizenship to American Indians, and Congress did that by statute later on.
00:10:00.860So I would say this, if the Supreme Court follows the clear law here, this is a very easy case. It should be six to three, saying that birthright citizenship is not for illegal aliens, right?
00:10:17.200If the Supreme Court follows the politics, we could see a seven to two decision for birthright citizenship for one point five million Chinese birth tourists.
00:10:32.420And I'm I'm a little bit nervous. It may be the latter.
00:10:38.180Mike, Gorsuch, as you know, I was on the committee, the five main committee that offered this up to the president to review, have a couple of picks.
00:10:46.220And Gorsuch was his guy from the very beginning. You were obviously very close to Justice Gorsuch.
00:10:52.660You led the confirmation fight and did everything. Talk to me about him, because he's I would say he's a guy that doesn't put the politics up.
00:11:00.020I don't think. But he had some pretty he looked like he was not convinced.
00:11:04.340I'm not a lawyer. I'm certainly not a constitutional lawyer.
00:11:06.940But just Gorsuch, I thought, had some of those searing questions.
00:11:10.540Your thoughts about Justice Gorsuch and his interactions with John Sauer?
00:11:14.580Well, I hope that all of these justices go through the briefs. They go through the plain text of the 14th Amendment and subsequent legislation, and they look at the original public meaning.
00:11:28.180And I think if they do that, if they actually go through that exercise of textualism and originalism, which is how they sold themselves to get the job, I think that the answer is very clear here.
00:11:39.880The 14th Amendments, we had the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments, the post-Civil War constitutional amendments, the 13th Amendment outlawed slavery, the 14th Amendment provide equal protection and due process to the freed slaves, the 15th Amendment provide voting rights to the freed male slaves.
00:11:59.240that was extended to Black women with the 19th Amendment, all women, but including the Black
00:12:04.440women with the 19th Amendment. As part of the 14th Amendment, we had the Dred Scott decision
00:12:09.500after the Civil War. And it was an abomination of a Supreme Court decision that said that the freed
00:12:15.180slaves do not get American citizenship. And so part of the 14th Amendment included the birthright
00:12:22.200citizenship provision. That's all persons born in the United States. Number one, you have to be
00:12:28.980born here. And number two, you have to be subject to the jurisdiction of the United States. You have
00:12:33.820to have allegiance, full allegiance to the United States. And so, as I was saying, American Indians
00:12:40.360did not have birthright citizenship under the 14th Amendment. Congress had to provide it to them by
00:12:45.180statute. So you have to ask this dispositive question to these textualists and originalists
00:12:51.720on the Supreme Court. If American Indians did not have birthright citizenship under the 14th
00:12:57.280Amendment, how the hell would illegal aliens? And then you have to ask this further question.
00:13:04.200Do you think we fought a civil war to give birthright citizenship to 1.5 million Chinese
00:13:14.500birth tourists? Do we think that we should have over a million Chinese nationals who have American
00:13:21.960citizenship and live in China and mail in their ballots from China into American elections and
00:13:29.220take social security and other welfare benefits back in Beijing. I don't think that's what the
00:13:35.560proponents of the 14th Amendment were trying to accomplish. And I don't think that's what the
00:13:40.640public understood what the 14th Amendment was trying to accomplish. So I think that these
00:13:46.900Supreme Court justices should think long and hard about this decision, because if they actually
00:13:52.220have birthright citizenship under the 14th Amendment to 1.5 Chinese nationals living in
00:13:58.340Beijing, they are going to destroy, and I mean destroy, the legitimacy of the Supreme Court.
00:14:06.800Mike, where do people go for Article 3 in your social media, sir?
00:14:10.600article three project.org article number three project.org you can donate follow us on social
00:14:19.460media take action it's time for the good men and women in in our government to be bold and
00:14:27.100fearless of the constitution courage is in very short supply right now as evidenced by that oral
00:14:32.960argument today mike davis thank you thank you we're on shotgun this morning too your twitter
00:14:39.800feed was on fire. Thank you, sir. I think Mike Davis wrapped it up right there. Sauer did a
00:14:44.540great job, but I think given the questions, it looks, I don't know, you never can tell,
00:14:48.860but the oral arguments look particularly grim. What are we going to do about it? Cold open
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00:16:19.200bannon b-a-n-n-o-n to 9-8-9-8-9-8 and do it today with a new timeline the president gave
00:16:27.000tonight among many of the things he said about the war in iran he said it will be done in two
00:16:31.920to three weeks what does that tell you it tells me that president trump is trying to find a way
00:16:40.800to end this war unilaterally the problem he has is that he wants to end the war clearly at this
00:16:48.040point, the Iranians have to get a vote and their vote seems to be to continue it because they want
00:16:53.580to exact a price by stressing the world economy, driving the price of oil up, keeping the Strait
00:17:01.280of Hormuz closed. So the president seems to be in a sense unilaterally saying, look, we're going to
00:17:07.760wind down activities. My guess is what he's doing is saying two to three weeks because that gives
00:17:12.520him enough time to pummel the Iranians even more, which is what his Gulf state allies want,
00:17:19.500Saudi Arabia, the UAE. And then it seems as though they're preparing for a strategy where
00:17:26.420they simply leave. And maybe the Strait of Hormuz is still closed. Maybe it's not. Maybe they get
00:17:34.280an agreement. But it's a way out. It strikes me as a rather bizarre situation, because
00:17:42.300you would have the the the the straight of homers closed oil would still be extremely expensive
00:17:48.800but it appears that the white house is searching for a way out and as they have through this entire
00:17:55.500process they're sort of freelancing and throwing stuff up and seeing if it will work and that seems
00:18:01.680the new idea just uh quit and go home after after a few more weeks of this pounding the iranian
00:18:08.740president today apparently said that Iran might be willing to stop the fighting if they are not
00:18:14.320attacked again. And that was in a conversation with a separate leader there. How do you interpret
00:18:19.600messages coming from inside Iran, whether it be the president who may not have that much power
00:18:23.780right now to begin with or the foreign minister? Yeah, exactly. Well, I think that this is one of
00:18:28.620the things, right? We know, I think, from what Rubio has said that the regime is fractured.
00:18:35.080But what they're asking for is a guarantee that this won't happen again.
00:18:39.960But the one thing that we have to remember is now that they've held the hostage, the straight hostage, they can go back and do this again at any time.
00:18:47.460And I think no matter how this ends, Iran will be able to and will want to exercise some control over the straight.
00:18:54.720And as the president said today, it only takes a mine dropped there or a guy shooting off a missile.
00:19:00.300Based on Chinese media reports, there are 500 birth tourism companies in the People's Republic of China whose business is to bring people here to give birth and return to that nation.
00:19:14.540Having said all that, you do agree that that has no impact on the legal analysis before us?
00:19:20.460I think it's, I'd quote what Justice Scalia said in his Hamdan dissent, where their interpretation has these implications that could not possibly have been approved by the 19th century framers of this amendment.
00:19:33.580I think that shows that they've made a mess, their interpretation has made a mess of the provision.
00:19:38.420Well, it certainly wasn't a problem in the 19th century.
00:19:41.880No, but of course, we're in a new world now, as Justice Alito pointed out to, where 8 billion people are one plane ride away from having a child who's a U.S. citizen.
00:19:49.880Well, it's a new world. It's the same constitution.
00:19:53.540It is. And as Justice Scalia said, I think in the case that Justice Alito was referring to,
00:19:59.140you've got a constitutional provision that addresses certain evils and it should be
00:20:03.100extended to reasonably comparable evils. He said that about statutory interpretation.
00:20:06.280I think the same principle applies here. And I think we quote that in our brief.
00:20:09.320Let me ask you about NATO. You said that our NATO allies have been disappointing,
00:20:13.780specifically, I know you're talking about Spain, Great Britain, France, even Italy now,
00:20:17.700and that after all of this is done we will re-examine this relationship and especially
00:20:24.840when it comes to we pay two-thirds of the freight when it comes to NATO defense and if it's just
00:20:30.680quote about us defending Europe you said you know at this point how do we call that and we can't
00:20:38.140have our landing rights in European nations our allies at a time when we need them what good is
00:20:43.440that alliance and is the NATO alliance at risk? Sean, I've been one of the strongest defenders
00:20:50.340of NATO during my time as a United States senator because I found great value in it. And it wasn't
00:20:54.580just about defending Europe. I said it also allowed us to have military bases in Europe
00:20:58.980that allowed us to project power into different parts of the world when our national security
00:21:03.400was threatened. If now we have reached a point where the NATO alliance means that we can't use
00:21:08.380those bases, that in fact, that we can no longer use those bases to defend America's interests,
00:21:13.660that NATO is a one-way street. That NATO is simply about us having troops in Europe to defend
00:21:19.000Europe. But when we need their help, not their help, we're not asking them to conduct airstrikes.
00:21:23.800When we need them to allow us to use their military bases, their answer is no. Then why
00:21:29.000are we in NATO? You have to ask that question. Why do we have billions and billions of dollars,
00:21:33.360hundreds of billions of dollars over the years, trillions of dollars, and all these American
00:21:37.420forces stationed in the region, if we can only use, in our time of need, we're not going to be
00:21:42.760allowed to use those bases. So I think there's no doubt, unfortunately, after this conflict is
00:21:48.000concluded, we are going to have to reexamine that relationship. We're going to have to reexamine
00:21:52.440the value of NATO and that alliance for our country. Ultimately, that's a decision for the
00:21:55.940president to make, and he'll have to make it. We're going to finish the job here. As I said,
00:22:00.040we're very, very close to achieving our objectives on all of these things that I've outlined.
00:22:03.660But I do think, unfortunately, we are going to have to re-examine whether or not this alliance that has served this country well for a while is still serving that purpose.
00:22:13.220Or is it now become a one-way street where America is simply in a position to defend Europe, but when we need the help of our allies, they're going to deny us basing rights and they're going to deny us overflight?
00:22:23.700I think these are very legitimate questions that we need to be asking, and this is going to have to be very carefully examined after this conflict is over.
00:22:30.340Do you think Donald Trump is actually going to try to pull out of NATO?
00:22:32.580Well, it's not up to him. It's up to Senate. So it's not something that is in the president's legal competency to remove the United States from that treaty. The question is whether or not Trump is seen as a reliable partner by NATO allies. Would he actually come to the defense of a NATO ally if they were attacked by Russia or by someone else?
00:22:55.720And increasingly, NATO leaders do not believe in the credibility of that commitment.
00:23:02.380So I don't think that Trump would leave NATO, but I think that NATO is being eroded by President Trump on a daily basis.
00:23:09.220You obviously put a lot of weight on subject to the jurisdiction thereof.
00:23:12.960But the examples you give to support that strike me as very quirky.
00:23:17.500The stuff you have about unlawfully present is like Roman law sources you're going to.
00:23:22.600So Congress could continually restrict who may lawfully be present more and more,
00:23:29.160and you'd say that would be incorporated into it,
00:23:31.880even though you're telling us to apply the original meaning of 1868.
00:23:35.000There are people who are subject to removal at any time if they are apprehended
00:23:41.980and they go through the proper procedures.
00:23:44.380But they have, in their minds, made a permanent home here
00:23:51.680and have established roots, and that raises a humanitarian problem.
00:23:56.980It certainly wasn't a problem in the 19th century.
00:23:59.880No, but of course, we're in a new world now, as Justice Alito pointed out to,
00:24:03.260where 8 billion people are one plane ride away from having a child who's a U.S. citizen.
00:24:08.100Well, it's a new world. It's the same Constitution.
00:24:10.480The position you're taking now is a revisionist one
00:24:13.520with respect to a substantial part of our history.
00:24:18.180As you heard, the justices were skeptical, even some of the most conservative justices.
00:24:24.600So why is this the case, the one that he would show up for?
00:24:30.040You can argue it was a clear message to his base, many of whom are feeling frustrated and abandoned.
00:24:36.040Don't worry, I'm still here focusing on the big issue you voted for,
00:24:39.500keeping America American in the way that you see it.
00:24:43.300The president going to the Supreme Court today is going to be read is just and talked about, unfortunately, is just another one of his stunts.
00:24:50.600But to be very clear, this is a president that thinks he is above all reproach.
00:24:54.880This is a president that thought it was smart politically and a political advantage to him to go to the Supreme Court to stare the justices down in hopes that they would take that into consideration.
00:25:06.760One could argue and rule in his favor.
00:25:08.220But here, if we could just step back, I think that everybody's absolutely correct.
00:25:14.840What the president is doing is trying to appeal to a very specific part of his base.
00:25:18.840But to be very clear, what has happened inside the current Republican Party apparatus is that things that used to be relegated to the fringe,
00:25:26.760this idea that America is, quote unquote, uniquely for Americans, which translates to America is for foundational Americans, white people in this country.
00:25:36.600Right. That is white supremacist ideology. And what has happened under this, not just under this second presidency of Donald Trump, but I would argue since he came to rise in political power, which predates him coming down that escalator, which starts with him questioning the citizenship of the first black president of the United States of America, Barack Obama.
00:25:58.060This white supremacist ideology, frankly, is foundational to Donald Trump's political beliefs, if we can argue that he holds any to be true.
00:26:06.500The thing that has been consistent is this idea that some people in this country are, in fact, not foundational Americans, that some people in this country, their citizenship deserves to be questioned.
00:26:18.620And so this idea that this is just about immigrants in this country, people who have, you know, maybe come to this country seeking asylum, who have crossed the border illegally, who are undocumented, that is not what this is just about.
00:26:31.200And I think what really threw me overall is that what many people expected would be a slam-dunk reiteration of the 1898 precedent and Wong Kim Ark is now turned into a nail-biter of a case.
00:26:44.400Where folks cannot, I mean, if you look at legal experts talking online about this case, you see everything from people saying, well, I think it'll still be 9-0 or it should be 9-0, but I'm not sure how we get there.
00:26:58.040But really, you see a larger consensus around people saying, I think the administration probably will lose, but I can't guarantee you that it will.
00:27:05.260And we could have a much closer majority than people would expect.
00:27:09.000I can count four reliable votes for the ACLU's position, and I can't yet tell you who I think the fifth or sixth or seventh will be.
00:27:16.480I do think this is bigger than Donald Trump.
00:27:19.100And if you go back to the current president of the Heritage Foundation, Kevin Roberts, when he came on our network, when we interviewed him on our show,
00:27:27.140We asked him, was this about Donald Trump or who is this bigger?
00:27:31.020And he said that Project 2025 and their entire movement was about instilling Trumpism in the United States government throughout everything they do so that it far outlasts Donald Trump whenever he is gone.
00:27:41.780And so I think that there are real questions to ask J.D. Vance, to ask Marco Rubio, to ask any elected Republican, would current or would be elected Republican in this country,
00:27:51.820if they are taking up the mantle of the great replacement theory,
00:27:55.660which is this idea that immigrants in this country are coming in to replace white people
00:27:59.860and that Democrats are ushering them in to do that.
00:28:02.400If they are taking up the mantle of birtherism in this country,
00:28:05.300if it is the Republican Party platform that they are questioning the citizenship of anybody
00:28:09.560whose lineage doesn't go back to the graves, if you will,
00:33:54.700The overall theme is that this is a historic and very patriotic launch.
00:34:03.540So this hasn't gotten a lot of press up until now, and now in the last 48 hours, people are very focused on this.
00:34:09.920This is extraordinarily dangerous for these astronauts.
00:34:13.520Can you talk to us just what's going to happen in the countdown between now and the time it goes off?
00:34:18.260And I take it it's still approximately 6.24 p.m. in about an hour?
00:34:24.840Yeah, that's what it looks like right now, and weather conditions should be cooperating.
00:34:29.440And, you know, the crew, they've been suited up since 10 a.m.
00:34:33.060So they've been going through technology procedures and other safety procedures to make sure that this thing is safe and cleared to launch tonight.
00:34:43.700Now, if for any reason it does get canceled this evening, they will try again tomorrow.
00:34:49.840So we have about six consecutive days where they can push the launch.
00:34:54.260If it doesn't happen, though, by I think it's next Monday, they will push it into May.
00:34:59.440So I know a lot of people here extended their trip or changed their plans to make sure that they could be here.
00:35:05.440So I know a lot of people keeping their fingers crossed it should go tonight, and I think it will, too, now.