00:00:53.540Nothing could be more important in our, what is it, the 250th year of the commemoration, celebration, remembrance of our founding, the revolutionary generation, the founding of the nation.
00:01:06.620It's going to take place July 4th, and there's lots of events that are going to lead up to it.
00:01:12.420I kind of got briefed the other day on what's going to happen on those couple of days.
00:02:11.720But founders of fire, and here's what I love about this, it's a totally different take.
00:02:17.040You kind of combine two big ideas, and you take it the energy of entrepreneurial America, of American exceptionalism, which is about the founder, the founder of institutions, the founders of companies, this driving force.
00:02:32.180And you go back and you tie it actually back to the founding of the republic and you interweave those two stories of the of the kind of evolution of our history, but do it around individuals as founders.
00:02:45.220And you lay out kind of six principles of what these founders are.
00:02:48.500So first off, how did you get the idea, given the fact that you've written so many fascinating books about the Vikings, about Churchill, about Gandhi, about how we won World War II part of the way it was because of the industrial capacity?
00:03:05.100How did you come up, given that people, I'm sure, came to you and said, look, Arthur, we've got to get a big book out of you for the 250th?
00:03:37.820It is, and I thought of it in that way.
00:03:39.760That book is so unique, and you really lay an aspect that people don't think about in World War II.
00:03:44.040And it's been hugely influential, too, in ways that even surprised me, because it really has made, in the last couple of years, the last half decade, has made a lot of people in Washington, on Capitol Hill, on the Pentagon, think about we built a defense industrial base that was so efficient, that was so innovative and productive.
00:04:06.520How come we don't have one like that now?
00:04:08.580And that book gives a picture into the kinds of people and the kinds of technologies that made it possible for the United States to go from basically a standing start in the summer of 1940 to become the greatest military industrial complex in history, not just through the war, but then afterwards in the Cold War and go on to win the Cold War.
00:04:31.940I don't think you fully appreciate how big that book was.
00:04:37.480In President Trump's first year of his first term, we went out to one of the facilities you actually talk about in the book.
00:04:58.080Yes, we're sitting there to hand out the handout to people that would come in.
00:05:04.380And I go, oh, my Lord, this is the book that inspired us to come here.
00:05:08.500That is that's a great story. I love that.
00:05:11.460And yeah, it had it had enormous influence, still does in a lot of ways.
00:05:16.020What this book does, Founders Fire does.
00:05:19.500Is to look at that fundamental issue, and that is it's not just a question why we have a defense industrial base today that looks so different.
00:05:28.080and has fallen really on hard times it's not just about legislation or about the pentagon's
00:05:34.480master plans or strategies or even technologies it's also about people and what we unleashed in
00:05:41.680the world war ii era was a series of really heroic individuals i talk about them in the book like
00:05:48.000henry kaiser and bill newtson and henry jackson higgins who built the higgins boats that landed
00:05:53.920GIs on the beach at Omaha Beach, and Roy Grumman, who supplied the U.S. Navy with all of its
00:06:03.200combat aircraft, its key combat aircraft. What is it that makes America the kind of place that
00:06:10.540creates more of these types, these founder types than any other country in the world?
00:06:15.140I mean, they exist elsewhere. Winston Churchill, you mentioned my book on Gandhi and Churchill.
00:06:20.280He's clearly someone who fits within that founder mentality, that kind of combination of vision and drive and willingness to take risks.
00:06:31.920But there's something special about America that really thrusts people like that and makes them spring up from the ground throughout our history.
00:06:40.400This founder's mentality, you lay out six attributes, right?
00:06:49.000In other words, what they have is an idea that when they create a business or an institution or create even a movement, that what they have in mind is something which is not just to address a set of issues today.
00:07:01.380You know, I've got a I'm going to build a better mousetrap. Right.
00:07:04.400but really to rethink what is a mousetrap? What is the future going to look like? And what role
00:07:10.640does my company or my institution or my role as president play in shaping that future all the way
00:07:17.300out to the far horizon? They have to have that vision. And that is. That's one of the things
00:07:24.360that distinguishes them from your ordinary entrepreneur. And I have a lot of respect
00:07:29.020for entrepreneurs. But by and large, entrepreneurs are thinking, here's a problem. I've got an answer.
00:07:34.400I can get rich really fast if I put these two things together.
00:07:38.180The founder looks to build out far beyond just the present.
00:07:43.140You talk about, you've got a great quote in here about, and it ties it back to the Declaration of Independence.
00:07:48.560We're almost in that time when that committee, that subcommittee was set up.
00:07:56.820There is nothing more ancient than the observation that the arts, sciences, and empire had always traveled westward.
00:08:02.960And in conversation, it was always added, since I was a small child, that their next leap would be over the Atlantic into America.
00:08:11.560And that's what the founding fathers all understood, Adams, Washington, Jefferson.
00:08:17.160What they were doing that summer in 1776 was not just declaring independence from Britain.
00:08:24.320What they were also doing was creating a vision of what liberty could look like for the future.
00:08:29.480They understood what was happening in world terms.
00:08:32.960And that gave them both a sense of responsibility, that we're here not just to declare independence from King George and to list all the terrible things he's done to the 13 colonies.
00:08:44.140Which is in the document, but it's not in the beginning of it when they set the framing.
00:08:48.140When they set the framing, they're talking about when in the course of human events, not just in the course of British events or the events here in the colonies, but in the course of human events, that this was a moment in human history that motivated them to take the kinds of steps, including the risks that they took in order to fulfill that dream.
00:09:09.400And then they tie it back to that amazing phrase, in pursuit of happiness, which is never in human history.
00:09:15.180I'm hoping we're going to come back to that, because I think I think in many ways, Steve, what happened and why what they do in 1776 lives on and becomes a fundamental part of how our world in America is shaped even today and throughout its history is because through the founding fathers, they gave to America a legacy, a series of gifts to the future about what happened.
00:09:43.660and what has shaped American history to this day.
00:09:47.520First of those gifts, I'll say, just to summarize them real quick,
00:09:50.980the first of those gifts was presidential power.
00:11:02.860Virtually unlimited power like Lincoln had.
00:11:04.840and he's chief magistrate and chief law enforcement officer of the country,
00:11:09.580which is the biggest fight they've got with us right now.
00:11:12.240Your second, you say, is they have to be incurably hands-on and detail-oriented.
00:11:18.940This is the second part of that. What do you mean by that?
00:11:21.620They mean in the sense that the business and institutions, they are,
00:11:26.060but they also want to see how that vision is being carried out on a daily basis.
00:11:31.060They want to go and meet with the customers.
00:11:32.940They want to go and meet with the employees.
00:11:35.500They want to see how that vision, the company they're building, the institution, is really taking place on the ground.
00:11:43.420The last place founders want to be is withdrawing to the corporate boardroom,
00:11:49.160to have that corner office and to spend all their time going through memos and checking off boxes supplied to them by managers and vice presidents and so on.
00:11:57.620They have this instinctive desire to take control, to pay attention to every detail of what happens.
00:12:02.880This gets back to people like Edison and Henry Ford.
00:12:08.760It gets back to George Washington, who paid very strict attention to what his cabinet members were doing,
00:12:15.220spent his time, hours sometimes, talking to each cabinet member about what was happening and what was taking place
00:12:21.580and where the work that they were doing, whether it was a secretary of state or whether it was a secretary of war,
00:12:28.980where that was headed and where that was going.
00:12:30.780You know, it's interesting because Adams was not invited to a lot of the cabinet meetings because in working through how the system was going to work, he didn't want an intermediary between, not that he had anything against Adams per se, but he didn't want a vice president that the cabinet would think that it was some chain of command where the vice president would come.
00:12:50.600he wanted to deal with. That's right. Particularly Hamilton and Jefferson quite directly. Quite
00:12:55.740directly. And it's the relations between you and me as chief executive, as president. And there is
00:13:02.440no, there's nobody sitting in the ante room at a desk or a table deciding who it is I'm going to
00:13:09.240see and who it is I'm not. Extraordinary. I tell you what, we're going to take a short commercial
00:13:13.920break here. Arthur Herman, you've written how many books? This is number 11. This is number 11.
00:17:12.420Well, we're going to get back into this book.
00:17:15.760But I'm not going to go through the whole book because I want you to get it.
00:17:19.060More importantly, I want you to get it also for a friend and a young person in this 250th year.
00:17:25.900I think this gets to the from 1776 to the age of Trump.
00:17:30.260You talk about the drive and the initiative and the vision of founders, but you tie it back to the revolutionary generation.
00:17:37.900And then you go through the entire history of the country, how this continues to drive America forward.
00:17:43.200And that's why this book is not just for yourself. Get a couple of copies for friends.
00:17:48.360And I give Arthur Herman books out all the time.
00:17:51.160I am particularly being a former naval officer.
00:17:53.340I always give one of my favorites to rule the waves.
00:17:55.860Because you talk about one of the most unique institutions in this world, the Royal Navy, and how it was created and what it had to go through and the struggles.
00:18:03.780And what you do in your books, it's not happy clapping.
00:18:06.880You show the resistance, whether it's Gandhi and Churchill.
00:18:10.700You show the resistance that people have and how they overcome it just by determination, as you say, keeping the vision.
00:18:16.720In this, before I get back on to the punch list, you said there's three gifts that also we have to be cognizant of.
00:18:23.880One I just mentioned, which was presidential power embedded into the Constitution, giving one person in particular that ability to use that founder's sense of vision, sense of drive of will, willpower, and also to a bias towards action.
00:18:41.180That the president is there not just to sign.
00:18:43.300That was principally driven by Hamilton.
00:18:45.960And he was really his the son he never had. He never had. And but Hamilton understood that what George Washington brought to the role of president, the very first president of the United States.
00:18:58.580I talk about it in the book in detail, that everything he brought to that, his prestige, his record of success, both as general but then also as leader in shaping the U.S. Constitution, as chairman of the Constitutional Convention, that that was not just something that would die off with or leave office with Washington.
00:19:22.860It needed to be embedded in the institution itself.
00:19:25.420Wow. And the way to do that was to do it and start to build the institution as the office of the presidency.
00:19:31.700And even to be in a situation that even the president could be in a situation where he could oppose the legislative majority if he feels it's something that needs to be done and something that's right.
00:19:43.540And it have the means by which to carry that out in the face of that kind of opposition.
00:19:49.420Did Hamilton, given he was his aide-de-camp for the whole Revolutionary War period and saw some of the lowest of the lows, because we talk about Washington today as a founder, but he was attacked viciously when he was the commander of the Continental Army by certain elements within the Army and certain elements in Philadelphia that were always second-guessing.
00:20:12.900They were always thinking, got to fire this guy and find somebody else who's more experienced.
00:20:17.280And people today's history is taught are shocked by that.
00:20:20.200I said, I don't know how this guy slept every night because they were viciously.
00:20:24.080You think they're after Trump, which they are.
00:20:26.320They were after Washington just as badly.
00:20:28.420And they were always questioning his strategy, always questioning about why you're doing this, fighting this kind of a war.
00:20:35.980You really should simply retreat into the mountains rather than try and mount a conventional confrontation with the British in arms and with an organized soldiery.
00:20:45.960And then why are you taking on the British at all?
00:20:48.900Of course, that was the other thing, that every founder has key characteristic, is a willingness to take on risk,0.64
00:20:56.240willing to take on, to see in facing a situation, not just the risk that comes with it, but the opportunities that lie on the other side.
00:21:04.940And that's true for business founders.
00:21:07.840It's true for presidents who have had that kind of founder instincts.
00:21:13.840You think about that single stroke of crossing the Delaware on Christmas Eve when his army was at its lowest point through desertions, through the loss of state militias who said, you know, our time is up.
00:21:33.300We're done with this fighting for now.
00:21:34.720You know, we try to teach here in the war room that in the period that we're in now, 250 years ago, the beginning of the, hey, we need to have a statement to have a purpose to this if we're going to do it after all their other avenues were concluded, the subcommittee that met and it came up with this magnificent document, the Declaration of Independence, that at the very moment, you know, around July 4th, which we'll celebrate, the British Expeditionary Force,
00:22:03.100the largest expedition force in human history, had already left Nova Scotia and other places
00:22:52.100And I tell people, if you think you're under pressure,
00:22:54.380you think President Trump is constantly under pressure,
00:22:56.760You cannot imagine the pressure that this individual was under.
00:23:01.280And it's that kind of, I guess, founder's fire that gets you through.
00:23:04.000That's right. I mean, and you just said it in Washington case.
00:23:08.500It's the nation itself. The survival of a of an American independence that's at stake at that moment when he decides we're going to go across the frozen Delaware.
00:23:19.000where we're going to take an enormous risk to counterattack against the Hessians,
00:23:23.640which was not in itself a great strategic goal in many ways.
00:24:13.620I mean, that was the other thing about it, too, that, you know, there were three columns that were supposed to head out, as I describe in the book.
00:24:20.120They were supposed to land on the other side of the river.
00:24:22.760Only one of them made it because the others had to turn back because the weather was so bad.
00:24:42.240And, you know, you just touched on something else that's really important, Steve, and that is, yeah, there were a lot of doubts, even within the ranks, even within his own command chain about this strategy and about the way we're doing it.
00:24:54.740But they trusted Washington. They felt if he feels it's possible to do it, then it's got to be possible to do it.
00:25:03.340And that's one of the other key characteristics, I think, of Founders, is that they build around them and draw together a team of dedicated, loyal lieutenants who carry out, who share the vision, who understand the vision, and who act in order to carry that out.
00:25:21.480brothers. This is Nelson. Nelson had in the entire Royal Navy, they had this, it became kind of the
00:25:27.300cult of Nelson, that he had a group of frigate commanders who looked up to him, but they were,
00:25:33.680and that's what created the Battle of the Nile and Copenhagen and eventually Trafalgar, that he
00:25:38.720had these individuals because his strategy was a little different than the normal strategy taught
00:25:43.700by the Royal Navy. Well, you had to have, in Nelson's case, what he had to do was he had to
00:25:48.740had people who would understand his orders almost as soon as he gave them and who realized that
00:25:54.520they didn't, everything didn't happen. Implement on their own. He didn't have to spell it out on
00:26:00.260paper. You know what I want to do, and I'm just going to turn you loose to go and do it. And I
00:26:06.020think how many business founders have around them that kind of tight-knit, disciplined, loyal group
00:26:11.900who likewise read the mind of the founder, understand his vision, and know what they
00:26:18.200need to do in order to fulfill that vision. That was true for Henry Ford. It was true for
00:26:24.040John D. Rockefeller, true for Edison, Thomas Edison, with the team that he built around
00:26:29.800Menlo Park. It was true for Abraham Lincoln when he ran for president in 1860. He had this
00:26:36.660band of loyal led by David Davis. He didn't even go to the convention that nominated him. And that
00:26:43.920convention was a knife fight. Totally. They knew what he wanted to do. They kind of had it. And he
00:26:49.600just devolved the command to people that are going to be there. And I think you see it with
00:26:56.240our current president. You know, he is his first term. He learned you can't operate as president
00:27:02.180Unless you've got that loyal, disciplined team who realize you're you're there to carry out.
00:27:09.780They're there to carry out your vision, not there to to mitigate, mitigate or to intervene.
00:27:16.500Yeah, that's right. This is what he went through that first year in the wilderness helped us do this.
00:27:21.680OK, Arthur Herman is here with us and we're honored.
00:27:25.500and it's not a better way to kick off really our commemoration of the 250th anniversary
00:27:31.720that we're going to take all through the year with Founders Fire.
00:27:34.780He's combined the entrepreneurial drive and the vision of founders specifically
00:27:40.340with the founding of the nation and the entire history of the nation
00:27:43.800and how this is probably one of the most important threads that drives the nation
00:32:02.500Absolutely. I met him once briefly at a party and he was there.
00:32:07.420You know, he's this enormously tall guy and standing in the room surrounded by beautiful women with a presence, with his entourage and so on.
00:32:15.840The two people who were held up as my models by my mentors and bosses at that time were, first of all, Michael Milken, head of Drexel Burnham Lambert, the great junk bond king.
00:32:32.500The other one was Ivan Bowsky, the bond trader operating out of Salmon Brothers.
00:32:42.120If you want to be really successful in Wall Street and you build a career for yourself, young man, these are the two figures you need to look up to and emulate.
00:32:50.980And of course, what happened was they were successful because of insider trading.
00:32:55.280They were insider trading, put them both into prison.
00:32:58.540It's true. Michael Milken's cleaned up his act since then.
00:33:01.640And Ivan Boski discovered his Judaic roots as a result of that.0.89
00:33:06.060But the third guy, the one that couldn't stand, went on to become president of the United States.0.50
00:33:11.620So it was a good lesson for me in understanding how conventional thinking operates, not just in the world of Wall Street, but elsewhere.
00:33:19.880And understanding that the very things that drive people crazy about Donald Trump are, in fact, his key virtues.
00:33:53.920You're a working stiff on Wall Street.
00:33:56.760No, I was actually, you have to go back.
00:33:59.960I have to rewind the tape a couple of years before that, because I had a Ph.D. in history and I had grown up in an academic family.
00:34:09.320I had spent went directly from there to graduate school, Johns Hopkins University, did a Ph.D., was a prize winning Ph.D. in European history.
00:34:18.300And I wanted to do something completely different. I said, let's try something totally in that range.
00:34:23.800You were burned out after getting your Ph.D. or you wanted to make some money?
00:34:28.620It was not burned out, but it was make some money.
00:34:32.520But also experience a world outside of academia, outside of the intellectual life.
00:34:36.980And from that point of view, the time I spent on Wall Street was hugely important part of my education because it was the first time in my life I was dealing with people who were smarter than I was, who were not intellectuals.
00:34:56.580Especially working on Wall Street in those days, in the mid-'80s, at any time, actually.
00:35:05.240It was an important part of my education.
00:35:07.580And the woman I met when I was working there, who's now my wife and has been my wife now for 37 years, who I met living in New York, she said, you're not enjoying this at all.
00:35:19.420Why don't you think about going into teaching instead, which is where you were headed in the first place before you took this swerve into the into the world of world of business and engagement in the in the world of finance and see what you can do with that.
00:35:36.260So I did. And I did an interview at the American Historical Association, a walk on interview and the University of the South in Suwannee, Tennessee, if you know it.
00:36:21.420in your command of the topic when you're reading your books,
00:36:25.540you know how the world works. You just haven't been in a research
00:36:29.180library. You understand, like when you write about this
00:36:33.420in Founders, you've had a business background or a practical background
00:36:37.540that you've seen how the world comes together.
00:36:40.760You understand how people act in the real world, and you come to understand
00:36:44.760historical actors, whether you're talking about ancient Greece in Rome or all the way forward to
00:36:49.360today, that the way in which they behave has very little to do with the big analytic frameworks that
00:36:57.080historians or economists or others use to try to understand their own time or to understand the
00:37:03.580past. It gives you a real sense that when you go into the archives, for example, and look at
00:37:10.000documents, that you're not just studying discursive strategies, which you're trying to
00:37:16.360analyze and understand in some highfalutin kind of theoretical way. These are the traces of real
00:37:23.520people making real decisions, sometimes under intense pressure, which you can only imagine
00:37:29.180if you're sitting there as an historian two centuries or three centuries later in trying
00:37:36.900to understand why they do what they did in the context that they did. That, I think, and also
00:37:43.160the experience in business, gave me a real sympathy and an ability to connect with people
00:37:49.800who are, who fit this founder's mindset, who see the world as a series of opportunities and who say,
00:38:00.420I'm going to take a risk. My wife would say, you did the same thing, young man,
00:38:05.660And when you decided I had a Ph.D., I was going out to look for, you know, jobs in the academic, typical academic job, job career direction.
00:38:15.340And I sort of said, I think I'm going to go to Wall Street and see what's happening, what's really taking place there.
00:39:27.880Yes. Because my background is not in the typical sets of problems and issues that American academic historians worry about, but coming at it from another completely different angle.
00:39:39.040When did you get the idea that I'm teaching, I'm more fulfilled now, but I need to write? I need to actually manifest my understanding of the world?
00:39:49.420Yeah, that that decision, Steve, was made for me by a book called How the Scots Invent of the Modern World, because I was still teaching at George Macy University and also at the Smithsonian.
00:39:59.160But even again, I want to get back to what even look, that's one of my all time favorite books.
00:40:05.340And that will change the way you look at the world. But even before that, to get to the first book was idea of a client.
00:40:12.080when did you come to the decision that i'm just not going to be a professor i'm not actually going
00:40:18.780to i'm actually going to write well part of it is the reality of the profession is you better
00:40:24.300that's why they call it publish or perish so you've got to come out but you're a narrative
00:40:28.820historian you're not i would call it a narrative historian that you these topics are bringing like
00:40:33.660this you know that that's true you know i do i did you start oh yeah i did started doing very
00:40:38.920sort of standard academic studies and works, turning my PhD thesis into a book to be published
00:40:46.660by University Press, Yale University Press of London. That was the idea. They're still waiting
00:40:52.360for the final manuscript of that book, as a matter of fact, from 1995. It was going to be
00:41:00.780academic press. Very much so. And then I was approached to think about doing a book on not
00:41:07.340the idea of progress, which I had been teaching a course on, but what about the opposite, the idea
00:41:11.800of decline? And something went off in my head. A light went on and I sort of said, I could see
00:41:17.920how you could do this in a really interesting way in a series of, let's say, 10 chapters.
00:41:24.240So I actually sat down and in an afternoon typed up a single-spaced book proposal, about five pages
00:41:32.940I want to get into this because so many people want to understand brilliant writer's process.
00:41:39.900So when somebody talked to you about the idea, you went back, sat, you put the thing in the typewriter, totally blank piece of paper.
00:41:48.080Tell me about the, when did that happen?
00:41:50.520Well, what you also have to understand is that the writing springs out of the teaching.
00:41:55.180because in addition to my courses for my always enthusiastic undergraduates,
00:42:04.220I was also teaching courses, adult courses, at the Smithsonian.
00:42:09.560And the Smithsonian lecture, the typical format for the courses at noon
00:42:14.700and at 6 o'clock that I was teaching were eight-week courses.
00:42:21.440You would come back to the Smithsonian for the summer? Is that what it would be?
00:42:24.420No, this would be during the course of the year.
00:42:52.660The University of South is a very special place.
00:42:55.400It was for me because I was a big Civil War buff as a kid and appreciated the fact that the grandson of General Edmund Kirby Smith was my colleague at the University of the South.
00:43:09.980That I understood and I took very seriously as part of that mission.
00:43:14.360But for my wife, there had to be a change.1.00
00:45:28.260Okay, I am here to announce that we're actually going to continue this conversation for another
00:45:32.820hour, and we're going to do that on the Saturday show.
00:45:36.280So I want everybody to, because there's so much to go through here and your other writings, I want to go back to process.
00:45:44.020So you're back in D.C. and you're back in D.C. and I'm teaching at George Mason.
00:45:47.900And then I'm also are you still teaching European history, still teaching European history, very much so, but also beginning to integrate some American history.
00:45:54.980My biography of Joseph McCarthy, which was the second book after Idea of Decline, got me interested in approaching American history from a totally different view and taking a totally different view of Joe McCarthy in particular.
00:46:10.740How did you not get banned just by doing it?
00:46:14.260You wrote this book. It's one of my favorite. Your biography, and I've read, I think there's nine or ten biographies of McCarthy. Two, yours and M. Stanton Evans.
00:46:29.620Blacklisted by history, which Ann Calder said, the greatest book since the Bible. Your books, and I've read all of them, and I've read, what is it, Pogue's five volumes of General Marshall.
00:46:42.260because you can't talk about McCarthy without General Marshall.
00:46:46.060You are the only two that actually, not just give a fair thing,
00:46:50.920but actually tell the story as it really should be told with the facts.
00:49:33.520That was the basic summary, the bald truth about the situation there.
00:49:38.520And so the fact that this kid, who is a European history, who shouldn't be writing a book like this at all, is also drawing the attention of the New York Times.
00:50:09.420But at the time, it was a code-breaking operation that was able to get into the messages that were passing back and forth
00:50:19.340between Moscow and its embassies, particularly in KGB operations.
00:50:28.640And this is one of those extraordinary situations in which the Venona decrypts didn't give U.S. intelligence and the FBI real-time intelligence
00:50:41.720But it did give them a window onto past operations of who is involved in the United States as operating as assets of this and even direct secret agents of the Soviet Union.
00:50:55.000It's what exposed finally and ultimately the treason of Alger Hiss.
00:51:01.660It's what exposed finally the treason of the Rosenbergs.0.53
00:51:33.780Or maybe even slightly more than just travelers, but were actually helping to drive the bus.
00:51:40.880You're hitting pretty close to the thing where you get the founder of the nation, right?
00:51:44.340I thought that the whole revelations that were coming out at that time about it ought to cause a re-evaluation of the role that Joe McCarthy and his colleagues had played in terms of exposing this communist conspiracy that was operating at the heart of the government during the New Deal years.
00:52:09.040But that's where the left drew the line.
00:52:11.960They could just barely swallow the expose of the Venona decrypts,
00:52:18.600although they still have their doubts about whether Hal Gerhiss was not.
00:52:31.580If you want to kick off this season, which won't culminate on July 4th,
00:52:36.840That will be one of the big things, but there are going to be other events afterwards, particularly around some of the campaigns in Long Island, in Brooklyn, all of it, as we remember the 250th of the founding of the revolutionary generation.
00:52:50.840This book will, it's optimistic. It's a book that looks to the future and about America at her best.
00:52:59.020This is why if you have a young person in your life, I strongly recommend you get a copy for yourself and a copy for a young person.
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