Bannon's War Room

00:00:00.000 to lay more foundation. That's certainly your choice. So you are aware that the medical

00:00:04.500 examiner's office did conduct an autopsy? I am, yes. Okay. And did you receive a report

00:00:10.860 from the medical examiner's office? I did, yes. Okay. Detailing the autopsy that was performed?

00:00:19.980 Yes. Prior to receiving the report, myself and Agent Davis visited with the doctor.

00:00:26.000 Okay. You visited personally with the doctor that conducted the autopsy?

00:00:28.840 that's correct okay and then subsequent to that and did you discuss the autopsy with the doctor

00:00:34.580 at that point in time when you're meeting with him personally yes agent davis and i had a fairly

00:00:38.840 in-depth conversation yes and where did that conversation take place at the medical examiner's

00:00:43.740 office okay do you recall the date and time that that personal visit took place i don't i don't

00:00:49.500 recall was it was it was soon it was soon after within within a few days of the incident of the

00:00:56.060 autopsy yes okay and and subsequent subsequent to that visit um did you receive a a report from that

00:01:04.200 that doctor that you visited with we did yes okay and that's the Dr. Wajardo that you're trying you're

00:01:11.520 struggling to pronounce his name is that yeah I apologize but yes that's who it is and the report

00:01:16.740 that was sent to you um do you recall when you received that report I don't recall the specific

00:01:22.880 date okay um have you reviewed that report yes have you reviewed have you again you stated earlier

00:01:33.700 that this is not the first murder investigation you've worked correct okay this is i take it this

00:01:39.560 is not the first medical examiner's report you've received correct okay they do the reports typically

00:01:46.380 look the same yes they're they're in a standard format that the medical examiner uses okay and

00:01:52.280 this report that you received yes from who you believe was the doctor you spoke to yes that

00:01:57.540 conducted the medical exam um was there anything peculiar about that particular report that stood

00:02:03.540 out to you no it appeared to be a standard form as used by the medical examiner when they send

00:02:08.760 those reports okay on your monitor exhibit 11 i'm going to have displayed uh what's been marked

00:02:19.340 states exhibit number 11 judge for identification right i believe there's nine pages so let me know

00:02:28.280 you see that on your your screen it's on the screen all right what i'd like you to do is just

00:02:33.780 look at this as it scrolls down through the nine pages and wait till we get to the very end and if

00:02:40.620 you need us to pause or stop or slow down let us know i want you to be able to look at all nine pages

00:02:45.420 Thank you.

00:03:15.420 Okay.

00:03:16.420 Okay.

00:03:17.420 Okay.

00:03:18.420 Okay.

00:03:19.420 Okay.

00:03:20.420 Okay.

00:03:21.420 Okay.

00:03:22.420 Did you get a look at that?

00:03:23.420 Yes, sir.

00:03:24.420 Okay.

00:03:25.420 Do you recognize what that is?

00:03:40.420 Yes.

00:03:41.420 What is that?

00:03:42.420 That's the medical examiner's report of examination for Mr. Kirk.

00:03:48.360 Do you recall, you don't recall exactly when you received that?

00:03:52.280 I don't, unfortunately, remember the specific date when I received it.

00:03:55.480 Do you remember how you received it?

00:03:57.440 Then provided to us electronically.

00:03:59.720 Okay, via email?

00:04:01.980 Sometimes via email, also on disk, compact disk.

00:04:05.280 Okay.

00:04:06.720 And does there appear to be anything in the exhibit before you?

00:04:11.200 Has that report changed at all, or does it accurately depict what you received initially from the doctor?

00:04:21.300 It accurately depicts it.

00:04:23.800 Does the state would seek to admit Exhibit 11?

00:04:28.540 Ms. Nester.

00:04:29.840 Your Honor, this is an expert report without the expert being present, being offered by an individual who's not an expert in this field.

00:04:38.640 If they're presenting him as an expert in this field, based on the limited questions about his experience and seeing previous medical exam records, I'd like to voir dire him on his qualifications to opine about it.

00:04:53.320 This is hearsay.

00:04:55.840 It's highly technical.

00:04:57.600 It should be presented only through an expert.

00:04:59.720 It could never come in and trial in any other way.

00:05:02.860 We submit that it is hearsay.

00:05:05.960 And to the extent they're going to ask this individual about any opinions about it, that would be improper.

00:05:12.960 He's not qualified to do that.

00:05:15.440 And furthermore, we just think that this is clearly falling under our constitutional concerns about the absence of our ability to be effective, to cross-examine, to question the –

00:05:26.100 We can't even question the expert's experience or CV or anything that we would normally do

00:05:31.960 to determine if this should even be accepted or considered by the court.

00:05:35.700 And so we strenuously object to its admission and for all those reasons to its publication as well.

00:05:42.760 There is also, there's some really personal things in there that should never be published

00:05:47.760 that deal with Mr. Kirk's medical condition history is the condition of his body.

00:05:57.220 It shouldn't be published, Your Honor.

00:05:58.820 Thank you.

00:06:00.200 To this state.

00:06:01.780 Judge, this is clearly a reliable hearsay admissible under Rule 11 of 2 of the Utah Rules of Evidence.

00:06:09.100 I would direct you specifically to subsection B5 for purposes of, and I'm quoting the rule,

00:06:20.100 for purposes of criminal preliminary examinations only, reliable hearsay includes subsection

00:06:25.420 5 specifically states medical and autopsy reports and records.

00:06:30.080 Again, that is supported by Article 1, Section 12 of the Utah Constitution, which states

00:06:35.200 that reliable hearsay can be relied upon

00:06:37.700 at preliminary examination in whole or in part.

00:06:41.020 And to the second part in regards to publication.

00:06:43.540 As far as the publication, Judge,

00:06:45.660 we agree with Ms. Nestor.

00:06:49.880 This is a document that does contain

00:06:52.340 very sensitive information

00:06:53.660 and information that Mr. Kirk's family

00:06:56.720 would appreciate it not being published.

00:07:00.060 So although we seek to admit it,

00:07:01.640 we'd ask that it not be published

00:07:03.060 here in the courtroom

00:07:04.260 or that it be published in any fashion or way that the public can see it by virtue of a camera.

00:07:10.520 Ms. Nestor.

00:07:11.540 Your Honor, I just want to point out that even though 1102 has a provision about exams,

00:07:18.060 I mean, the court still has the overarching mission under 1102 to make this reliability finding, right?

00:07:24.520 And it's just completely in a vacuum being offered by someone who's a police officer.

00:07:29.860 So, again, we would just argue that you're just not – it's hampering you for making the analysis you need to make to admit it, and we object to it.

00:07:38.420 All right.

00:07:38.980 Anything further from the parties?

00:07:41.080 No, Your Honor.

00:07:41.860 No, sir.

00:07:42.320 All right.

00:07:43.040 So, again, relying upon the analysis, Utah Constitution Article 1, Section 12, as it relates to reliable hearsay, and then turning to Utah Rules of Evidence, Rule 1102, B-5, specifically notes medical and autopsy reports and records.

00:08:08.200 The court is going to overrule the objection and admit state's exhibit, I believe it's 11.

00:08:16.840 11, yes, sir.

00:08:20.600 Citing to Utah Constitution Article 1, Section 28, Dignity, Portion, Respect and Dignity.

00:08:29.600 it will not be published either in the courtroom or viewable on media by the the camera for the

00:08:38.180 reasons previously stated as it relates to the video and so the court will receive it

00:08:44.220 and it is admitted into evidence and that concludes that portion Mr. Sturgill is this

00:08:53.680 a good point to stop to take our 15 minute afternoon break I think it'd be a great idea

00:08:58.000 Judge, I've just got one last question with respect to the medical examiner's report.

00:09:05.500 Agent Hole, in that report, does the doctor relate cause and manner of death?

00:09:12.800 He does, yes.

00:09:13.820 And in that report, what is the stated cause of death?

00:09:17.780 It was stated as a murder.

00:09:20.040 And manner of death?

00:09:22.040 It was a gunshot wound to the neck.

00:09:23.320 i object it's not stated as a murder i believe it's stated as a homicide which

00:09:31.880 is an important distinction just i'll i'll go back and correct that all right so so i'm going

00:09:37.740 to sustain well first of all let me look at the report i need to see that session i need to be

00:09:42.940 able to draw my own conclusion uh so okay i i see ms nester are you referring to page one of this

00:09:51.020 report? Sorry, Your Honor. Could you repeat that? I apologize. As it relates to your objection for

00:09:56.640 the misstatements, are you looking at page one of the report? Yes. All right. Your Honor, I also

00:10:08.100 need to make an objection on the best evidence rule, too. Thank you. All right. So I'm going to

00:10:13.200 sustain the objection as it relates to the manner of death. It does not say murder, but in regards

00:10:19.840 to their best evidence rule again under 1102 and the utah constitution that permits uh reliable

00:10:27.080 hearsay and it is state's exhibit 11 is uh admitted mr sergil agent hole i'm going to ask

00:10:37.440 you to look at the first page of uh exhibit 11 no yes see that yes okay so let me let me ask you

00:10:46.240 again um and you can look at it yeah and would you mind relating uh what the doctor reports is

00:10:53.580 the matter of death yes i misspoke it does say homicide and then the immediate cause of death

00:10:59.680 gunshot wound of the neck nothing further judge well at this moment i think it'd be a great idea

00:11:06.080 that we take a 15 minute break right we'll go ahead and go on break we'll come back at uh 3 25

00:11:11.300 and resume with this witness at that time.

00:11:16.300 Court is in a brief recess.

00:11:22.520 Now the man accused of killing Charlie Kirk is in a Utah courtroom

00:11:26.240 as prosecutors present evidence against him.

00:11:29.160 The hearing, a critical one for suspect Tyler Robinson,

00:11:31.780 who was accused of fatally shooting the conservative activists last September.

00:11:34.900 This week the judge will determine what evidence will be permissible in the trial,

00:11:39.160 including a recorded statement by Robinson's former roommate who is seen as a key witness.

00:11:45.080 Some of Kirk's family members are attending today inside that courtroom.

00:11:49.620 Those are his parents arriving earlier.

00:11:52.360 His widow, Erica Kirk, also there.

00:11:55.560 Okay, I'm going to take you back to September 10th, 2025.

00:11:59.680 You mentioned you were on campus.

00:12:01.040 You had a particular assignment.

00:12:03.700 Mr. Gernander, I'm sorry.

00:12:05.240 We're just going to pull down the exhibits.

00:12:07.980 Okay.

00:12:08.580 Thank you.

00:12:09.160 You may continue.

00:12:10.180 Would you like me to take this exhibit down, Judge?

00:12:12.620 Are you referring to it in your line of questioning right now?

00:12:16.020 Not right now, I'm not.

00:12:17.040 Okay, let's go ahead and take it down.

00:12:18.220 So you were securing the Hall of Flags walkway, correct?

00:12:40.000 Yes.

00:12:40.420 On the south end?

00:12:41.600 Yes.

00:12:41.880 um what was happening that morning that day on campus at uvu i i came in to do a shift for a

00:12:53.300 special event that where we had a guest speaker come in and was going to talk to the students

00:12:57.760 and people around the neighborhood do you know who the guest speaker was i do and who was that

00:13:02.760 it was charlie kirk did you see mr kirk that day i did when did you first see him when he arrived

00:13:09.120 On campus, just behind the west side of the Hall of Flags, I saw him pull up.

00:13:18.460 And can someone access the courtyard through that area?

00:13:22.160 Yes, they can.

00:13:22.620 How so?

00:13:23.680 Where he pulled up underneath the Hall of Flags is an opening to where you can drive a car underneath.

00:13:30.460 So there's access right there.

00:13:31.920 You can walk or drive underneath the Hall of Flags.

00:13:34.920 And you saw him arrive?

00:13:36.460 Yes.

00:13:36.740 Okay.

00:13:39.120 Can you describe what you were seeing?

00:13:42.620 What did you observe?

00:13:44.860 On that day, I observed Charlie going back, doing some meet and greet with some people, getting some photos taken.

00:13:52.240 He then came underneath the hall flags and went to his tent,

00:13:56.540 and he was there answering questions and talking to individuals that would ask him questions.

00:14:02.980 The tent you're referring to, is that the tent that we see when it was set up in the courtyard?

00:14:07.880 Yeah, that Y-square tent.

00:14:09.120 The white top.

00:14:09.800 Yes, he was under that.

00:14:12.480 Fast forward to about 1220 or so, so a little bit after noon, the noon hour.

00:14:18.760 What happened?

00:14:19.940 What did you see and what did you hear?

00:14:22.020 I heard an individual talking to Charlie,

00:14:24.220 and I happened to kind of glance over the edge of the railing about that time.

00:14:29.600 I could see the right side of Charlie's shoulder, so not his whole body,

00:14:33.420 because he was underneath the tent, so I could only see probably the right side of his body.

00:14:36.380 He was answering a question

00:14:39.500 Kid asked him a question

00:14:40.600 And then I heard a shot fired

00:14:42.700 Do you know what time that was?

00:14:45.360 Yes

00:14:45.800 What time was that?

00:14:47.040 12.23

00:14:47.540 What did you see?

00:14:51.000 At that moment I saw him lean to the left

00:14:54.300 When you say him, you see Charlie

00:14:56.300 So I saw him go to the left

00:14:59.720 Because I could no longer see the right side of his body

00:15:01.960 So he went further underneath the tent

00:15:03.940 To the north side of the tent, so left

00:15:06.700 Okay.

00:15:07.960 Can you describe the reaction of others that were there?

00:15:11.180 Yeah, so then everybody started getting up and starting to run in more of a chaos kind of situation.

00:15:20.300 Before you continue, can you describe a little bit?

00:15:22.940 So you mentioned Mr. Kirk was answering questions, talking to individuals.

00:15:27.620 Yes.

00:15:27.920 Were there others present?

00:15:29.480 Yes.

00:15:30.260 Any idea about approximately how many?

00:15:33.000 How would you describe it in your terms?

00:15:34.380 In my terms, I'd say when I was up there looking down, I'd say there were several thousand people

00:15:38.440 because you had it on the grass that was jam-packed in the amphitheater sitting on the grass.

00:15:43.240 You had people standing on the back up along the cement.

00:15:46.980 You had people that were on the second level, the Sorensen, and over by the Woodbury building.

00:15:51.280 There's another level there where a lot of people were standing and watching.

00:15:54.760 So it was pretty packed, several thousand people.

00:15:57.860 So you mentioned you heard something.

00:15:59.540 What did you hear again?

00:16:00.640 I heard a gunshot.

00:16:01.500 Okay. And can you describe Mr. Kirk's reaction? Was that simultaneous to hearing the gunshot?

00:16:10.660 Yes, it was.

00:16:11.340 When he fell to the left?

00:16:12.580 Yes.

00:16:13.300 Did you see the reaction from the crowd?

00:16:15.340 Yes.

00:16:15.840 What was that?

00:16:17.080 Everybody kind of got up. A lot of people were screaming, standing up, and starting to run in all different directions away from the center of the tent.

00:16:25.560 Okay. You're a police officer helping to secure the area, correct?

00:16:29.480 Yes.

00:16:29.740 What did you do?

00:16:31.500 At that moment, I recognized it as gunfire.

00:16:35.080 I left my post, which was right there on the south end of the Hall of Flags.

00:16:39.740 I proceeded to, right where the fugal and the Hall of Flags meet,

00:16:43.200 there's some outside stairs that I was starting to run down.

00:16:46.140 As I was trying to get down to the bottom of the stairs, people were running up.

00:16:49.320 People were laying down on the steps.

00:16:51.180 I'm trying to jump over people to get to the bottom of the stairs

00:16:53.320 so I can help stop an individual that was probably shooting.

00:16:59.880 What happened next?

00:17:01.500 By the time I got to the bottom of the stairs, I was informed on the radio that we had a shooter in custody.

00:17:08.020 So I thought at that moment, I was like, oh, that was kind of fast.

00:17:11.120 Obviously, it was close range probably because we had an individual in custody.

00:17:14.860 Another officer came on and said we had an individual in custody.

00:17:17.980 So I decided to, since the threat is gone, now I can assess for anybody that's injured

00:17:24.260 and start looking for any medical needs that's needed at that moment.

00:17:27.240 But I started canvassing the area.

00:17:31.100 As I canvassed the area, I was looking for anybody that was injured.

00:17:33.960 I saw a kid on the ground that was on about the second or third tier in the grass next to a wheelchair,

00:17:40.580 and he was almost convulsing.

00:17:42.960 I thought he'd maybe been shot.

00:17:44.920 I talked to the dad as I was running over there.

00:17:46.540 He said that he was just having a seizure, that he was fine, he was not injured.

00:17:49.480 So then at that moment, I observed that there was no other injuries that I could see at that moment.

00:17:54.860 Okay.

00:17:55.040 Okay. Was your attention drawn to anything else at that time?

00:17:59.960 Yeah, so after we got some people kind of cleared away a little bit,

00:18:03.780 I thought I needed to start preserving the scene because we had a crime scene.

00:18:07.380 And with some of my experience and training to that effect,

00:18:10.180 I decided now we need to contain the scene and help preserve as much evidence as we can.

00:18:14.820 So I started pushing people off the grass out of the courtyard area

00:18:18.680 because I knew that was where the crime scene was.

00:18:21.760 As soon as we started pushing those guys out, my chief, Chief Long, that was right next to me,

00:18:27.940 I looked down and saw an empty pistol holder that was sitting just on top of the grass.

00:18:34.360 And at that moment, things had died down just a split second.

00:18:37.160 I realized that the shot I heard was more of a rifle shot and not a pistol shot.

00:18:41.720 Our producer who is inside, she says that Donald Trump Jr. is inside that courtroom,

00:18:47.220 along with Erica Kirk, Charlie Kirk's parents, a few supporters with them,

00:18:53.940 listening to, as you say, emotional testimony.

00:18:56.840 Erica Kirk has been very emotional already.

00:18:59.800 She's been seen crying when one witness talked about just the sound of the gunshot.

00:19:04.800 We're not even talking about how it looked, just the sound.

00:19:09.020 This witness described the rifle shot being more violent than a pop you would get from a handgun.

00:19:14.640 At this point, Erica Kirk had to leave the courtroom.

00:19:18.440 So this, as you say, is a probable cause hearing.

00:19:21.460 It's not a trial.

00:19:22.220 It looks a bit like a trial in that there are witnesses and cross-examination, but it's not.

00:19:26.380 It is the prosecution trying to say we have probable cause, trying to persuade the judge to take this to a full trial, scheduled to last all week.

00:19:36.600 one of the key pieces of evidence that we believe the prosecution is going to put forward, guys,

00:19:41.040 is a deposition, a taped deposition from Tyler Robinson's roommate slash romantic partner.

00:19:47.820 And that there was communications between Robinson and this partner after the shooting

00:19:53.320 that the prosecutors basically say is tantamount to a confession.

00:19:57.180 The roommate asked Tyler Robinson, was it wasn't you that did it right?

00:20:01.920 And the reply from Robinson was, yeah, I'm sorry, it was me.

00:20:06.600 Charlie Kirk was spreading too much hate.

00:20:10.000 If things move forward with this preliminary hearing as expected, how soon can we expect the trial to begin?

00:20:19.700 Well, that is unclear. This judge has been very methodical.

00:20:24.100 Now, we expect he might give a ruling on Friday as to whether the trial will proceed.

00:20:28.740 But judging by his previous performance, I would say that he might delay that.

00:20:33.980 But that is his decision to make.

00:20:35.780 All the evidence goes to him. It's presented to him. He decides, yep, we've got enough for trial or no.

00:20:40.800 So far, you see on the stand there, if you're still showing that picture, that is a man who was a Utah Valley University campus police officer on the day of the shooting, September 10th last year.

00:20:52.960 And he described hearing this pop, this gunfire that I mentioned just before, this rifle pop.

00:20:58.440 He said he could tell where it was coming from. He said after he heard that gunshot, he went down.

00:21:04.240 He surveyed the scene to see if there was anybody injured who he could help.

00:21:07.720 There wasn't.

00:21:08.600 He then went to the roof where he believes the gunshot came from.

00:21:12.300 And up there, he found a screwdriver on that roof, which is part of the prosecution evidence.

00:21:17.720 They say Tyler Robinson's DNA is on that and also on, for example, the rifle.

00:21:23.200 Now, the defense will say there's a bunch of DNA on that rifle.

00:21:27.500 And that is why probably they are calling three forensic evidence experts to testify at this preliminary hearing.

00:21:35.600 So it's going to go on all week. It will be emotional. It's been emotional already.

00:21:40.120 And, you know, you've got Donald Trump Jr. and Erica Kirk in there watching the prosecution try and prove probable cause, try and get to probable cause.

00:21:50.120 And don't forget, the prosecution has said in this case, guys, that they will be seeking the death penalty against now 23-year-old Tyler Robinson.

00:22:00.220 OK, fascinating testimony. Remember, not remember, in the state of Utah, this takes the place, this evidentiary hearing takes the place of essentially a grand jury.

00:22:17.340 So you're like sitting in almost like a grand jury that you can view and weigh and measure.

00:22:24.480 And there's been some fascinating testimony already.

00:22:31.700 We've got a couple of experts that when we have time here in Real America's Voice, we will get in.

00:22:38.400 Jack Basobik is in the courtroom.

00:22:40.100 Can't stop it.

00:22:40.600 The courtroom is on a short break.

00:22:42.000 It's supposed to commence in about four minutes,

00:22:46.340 and we will go back, obviously, to our live wall-to-wall coverage of this.

00:22:51.160 We think, as a channel, Real America's Voice, and, of course, The War Room,

00:22:55.060 that it is very important for this audience to see it all and to hear it all.

00:22:59.780 And, obviously, it's generated a lot of interest so far

00:23:01.840 because Charlie Kirk was not only a great man and so important to her cause,

00:23:07.260 but was a great American and was a role model for so many people throughout the world,

00:23:10.700 particularly young people, that you've got to get to the bottom of this.

00:23:14.620 And so that is what this is today, an evidentiary hearing.

00:23:16.960 The judge has been very, I think you can say that, methodical.

00:23:20.800 They're going to go now, just for your own planning purposes,

00:23:23.860 they're going to go, and I'll do this on East Coast time,

00:23:26.540 they're going to go from 11 o'clock in the morning,

00:23:29.440 of which we will turn our coverage over to 11 o'clock in the morning

00:23:33.720 until approximately 7 p.m. Eastern Daylight Time every evening.

00:23:38.200 There'll be a lunch break around 2 p.m., ironically, when the Jack Posobiec show is supposed to go.

00:23:45.040 And, of course, we get Kevin Posobiec out there.

00:23:46.840 Jack's in the courtroom.

00:23:50.200 Then there's going to be at least, I think, one break in the afternoon.

00:23:53.120 They're taking that break right now.

00:23:54.260 We're going to go back, I think, in a few minutes to the courtroom and to continue to listen and hear and view whatever evidence they feel that they're going to allow.

00:24:07.460 the public to actually see.

00:24:09.640 So we're going to go to that.

00:24:11.200 So much other breaking news today.

00:24:14.260 The most important,

00:24:15.480 it looks like a woman has come forward,

00:24:17.900 I think a former girlfriend

00:24:20.160 or former romantic partner

00:24:22.440 or partner of,

00:24:23.720 or at least somebody dated,

00:24:25.240 of the nominee.

00:24:27.620 So really the nominee

00:24:28.900 because the governor dropped out

00:24:30.560 or suspended her campaign

00:24:32.300 in the Senate race,

00:24:34.600 U.S. Senate race

00:24:35.540 in the state of Maine, Platinar.

00:24:37.460 the former Marine, quite controversial.

00:24:40.340 She said that against her consent,

00:24:42.940 he forced himself upon her.

00:24:45.340 There were pretty dramatic sexual allegations.

00:24:49.500 He's put out a videotape that he was drunk

00:24:51.940 and didn't know what he was doing.

00:24:52.760 However, they have a deadline,

00:24:55.800 I think by next Monday the 13th,

00:24:57.680 they have to declare that there could be

00:24:59.800 somebody else coming to the race, et cetera, 0.87

00:25:02.740 and or the governor renew her contest.

00:25:05.760 Remember, Platner right now,

00:25:07.140 or at least on the polling, is up six or seven points.

00:25:13.020 At least that's what certain polls are saying.

00:25:14.580 So this is the entire mainstream media, which CNN and MSNBC are not covering the trial.

00:25:20.880 They kind of dip in and out.

00:25:23.140 But they have people out there covering it, but they're not showing it so that you can watch it.

00:25:27.300 And I think that's the only way to view it is just to do this, just to hunker down and get into it to the entire day.

00:25:32.460 I want to thank our sponsors because we're going to hone them in advance for the next couple of days, particularly Birch Gold.

00:25:39.980 I want to thank Birch Gold.

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00:27:42.900 uh like i said let's go back to the coverage of charlie kirk obviously very disturbing uh erica

00:27:49.120 Kirk is in the audience, Charlie's, I think Charlie's parents are there, that's fine,

00:27:56.620 Don Jr., we're going to go to break, we're going to take a break here in a moment, the

00:27:59.080 court hasn't come back, if they come back, we will cut right out a break, Don Jr. is

00:28:04.600 there, okay, they're filing back in right now, our own Jack Posobiec is actually in the courtroom,

00:28:09.420 very restricted on what he can do, we were trying to get Jack to step out during these

00:28:13.960 breaks, that's just not possible, people are filing back in, of course, the judge,

00:28:19.120 Let's go and go. They're speaking. I think we go to the let's go to the courtroom right now.

00:28:23.960 Live. What, if anything else, did you do on the 10th of September, 2025?

00:28:30.700 Primary focus was to identify the individual who'd been seen on the roof with the preliminary footage.

00:28:39.120 And. So there was a big effort to review as much of the video that we had available to us from both the public,

00:28:47.780 but predominantly from Utah Valley University in an effort to follow that individual both forward and backwards from the time of the shooting.

00:28:57.860 Okay. So if I understood you correctly, the priority was to identify the shooter.

00:29:03.260 Yes.

00:29:03.880 And to that end, you started reviewing even more UVU video than you've already described?

00:29:08.320 Correct, yes.

00:29:09.040 Okay. What, if anything else, either did you do or happened initially that helped you identify who that shooter was?

00:29:26.800 So there was hundreds of hours of video that was reviewed,

00:29:30.880 but the predominant focus, again, was on tracking the individual from the roof

00:29:36.200 either after the shooting had occurred

00:29:38.860 or trying to trace the steps of the individual prior to the shooting.

00:29:42.540 And we were able to do that through a combined effort of individuals,

00:29:50.340 and the focus was having people reviewing video identify people

00:29:55.280 who could fit the original description of the individual that jumped off the roof.

00:30:02.160 At that point, so at this point, approximately how many hours of UVU video

00:30:09.020 do you think you personally had seen or watched?

00:30:12.780 Myself, maybe 10 or 20 hours of video being called in to look at different camera angles

00:30:21.960 and different views of individuals.

00:30:23.400 um but there were a there was a large team of people reviewing video reviewing video

00:30:29.900 yeah from the view or some of them sbi agents yes correct and combined uh how much video do you

00:30:38.200 think you watched that first day on the 10th it would be in the tens or hundreds of hours of video

00:30:44.300 was reviewed okay uh did anything else come along that that helped you identify who that shooter

00:30:50.280 might be? Yeah, eventually on the evening of the 11th, we received word from Washington County

00:30:59.940 that an individual in that area had reached out to law enforcement and was wanting to turn

00:31:09.360 themselves in for the incident at UVU. Okay. And did you, at that point in time, did you receive

00:31:14.920 a name from Washington County? Yes, we did. And what was that name? Tyler Robinson.

00:31:20.280 So what, if anything, did you do with that information, the name, Tyler Robinson?

00:31:25.480 That information was given to our SIAC or our state information and analysis group,

00:31:31.340 and they put together what would be called a workup.

00:31:34.420 So they would look at driver's license records, DMV records to determine addresses,

00:31:40.980 obtain pictures of individuals, and then any associated vehicles or things like that.

00:31:46.660 So was that done with Mr. Robinson?

00:31:48.300 It was, yes.

00:31:49.420 driver's license record was pulled yes did that include if you remember or do you know did that

00:31:54.040 include a photograph of mr robinson it did include a photograph of mr robinson yes how about an

00:31:58.940 address and date of birth there was an address and a date of birth and i believe a dmv record

00:32:04.480 for an associated vehicle all right so that dmv record did include a vehicle that was associated

00:32:10.080 with mr robinson correct okay um do you remember uh what the make and model of the vehicle was

00:32:18.520 that was tied to Mr. Robinson?

00:32:20.020 The Dodge Challenger.

00:32:22.740 Anything else beyond that that you remember?

00:32:25.160 It was silver in color,

00:32:26.880 and I believe there were two registered owners of the vehicle.

00:32:30.560 Okay, and who were the registered owners?

00:32:32.420 Mr. Robinson and then his mother.

00:32:35.660 Do you recall whether or not a date of birth was included

00:32:38.000 in that driver's license information that you got initially?

00:32:41.560 Yeah, I believe the actual driver's license record was shared,

00:32:44.740 so it would have included a date of birth.

00:32:46.400 All right.

00:32:48.520 uh with mr uh well with tyler robinson's personal information

00:32:53.840 were you able to expand uh your search at all yes once we knew a vehicle that we were looking for

00:33:03.440 and we had an actual uh image of the individual then we were able to use that video footage to

00:33:11.120 to try and track that specific individual okay and and i'm sorry let me clarify so when i said

00:33:16.860 expand your search i'm referencing uh the uvu surveillance video uh yes we were able to okay

00:33:25.000 and were you able to identify uh in that expanded search or did you believe you located that that

00:33:33.580 challenger uh we did yes okay uh were you able to determine uh at what time or times mr robinson

00:33:44.680 visited the UVU campus on September 10th?

00:33:48.000 Yeah, we were able to establish that Mr. Robinson had been on campus

00:33:52.240 approximately four times throughout the day, twice before the shooting,

00:33:59.060 the time of the shooting, and then after the shooting,

00:34:03.160 later in the evening into the early hours of the 11th.

00:34:05.980 you um you said that you initially tracked the shooter forward and backward

00:34:17.200 with with uvu surveillance video correct okay uh did you do the same thing with that vehicle

00:34:24.300 we did yes okay tracked it forward and backward yes using the uvu footage and and additional

00:34:31.900 information that was obtained, yes. And I believe you said that in total Mr. Robinson visited the

00:34:40.020 UVU campus four times that day. Yes, that's correct. And let's just be clear, that's all

00:34:44.320 based on UVU surveillance video, is that fair to say? That's correct, yes. Okay. Have you

00:34:51.600 have you reviewed what's been marked State's Exhibit 12.1 for identification? I have, yes.

00:34:59.820 Okay. And before we go there, of the video that you have personally watched, does the video include the 10th and the 11th or just the 10th?

00:35:15.040 The video I've seen includes the 10th and then a very small portion, I think, about 030 of the 11th.

00:35:21.700 Okay. And I think you said initially you watched about 20 hours of video.

00:35:25.500 Yes.

00:35:26.060 Since that time, have you watched additional video?

00:35:29.100 Yes.

00:35:29.540 UVU surveillance video?

00:35:31.200 Yes.

00:35:31.820 Okay.

00:35:32.420 And who provided the UVU surveillance video to you?

00:35:37.100 It was part of the collection of videos that was provided by Mr. Olson and his team that we already discussed previously.

00:35:44.900 Okay.

00:35:45.200 of the uh of all the hours of video that you've watched um do you have an idea of how many hours

00:35:55.580 include uh mr robinson or his vehicle uh just with uvu or just with uvu i'm sorry just with uvu

00:36:06.040 will probably be about 16 hours and and let's be clear this is someone you believe to be

00:36:15.520 tyler robinson correct okay and this person that you've identified as tyler robinson that you've

00:36:22.080 been investigating and that you viewed in the the numerous hours of video from uvu

00:36:27.340 would you recognize that person if you were in the courtroom today yes is he in the courtroom

00:36:32.600 today he is yes would you point him out and describe something that he's wearing

00:36:36.740 i know we object to um unduly suggestive in court identification for constitutional grounds

00:36:43.480 do you wish to specify an unduly constitutional i'm trying to understand your objections i want

00:36:56.640 to make sure i fully understand your honor i think there's some you know deferred to to

00:37:01.120 to Mr. Byrd if he wants to jump in.

00:37:03.620 But I believe there's a long line of case law that says

00:37:06.940 when you ask someone to identify the defendant

00:37:10.000 when they're the only person sitting at the table

00:37:14.140 with defense counsel, that that's unduly suggestive

00:37:16.780 and taints any future or past, well, definitely future identification.

00:37:25.140 So we object to that happening in this fashion at this time.

00:37:29.160 Mr. Sturgeon.

00:37:30.020 Well, Judge, Agent Hull has testified that he has watched numerous hours of video.

00:37:36.780 Well, take a step back.

00:37:38.840 He has looked at personal identifying information of an individual by the name of Tyler Robinson.

00:37:45.500 He's looked at the driver's license record, and he's also looked at the DMV records

00:37:49.260 and has been able to determine what car that person drives.

00:37:53.240 He's also looked at surveillance video that he believes depicts this Tyler Robinson.

00:37:58.260 and i've simply asked him if that person that he has seen both in driver's license

00:38:06.700 photos and the surveillance video if that person is here in the courtroom today

00:38:11.740 and i don't know that that's unduly prejudicial or suggestive it's the routine i don't know of

00:38:19.880 any other way to do it other than the way i just did it judge well i wanted to verify that the

00:38:24.720 format of the question i would remember it in my mind but uh to ms nester was that was that an

00:38:31.220 accurate portrayal of the question that was asked yes okay mr sturgill anything further before i

00:38:38.620 issue my ruling well no other than judge i i believe it's it's worth noting that mr robinson

00:38:44.100 is in plain clothes well he's yeah counsel please approach the bench

00:38:51.020 Thank you.

00:39:21.020 All right.

00:39:51.020 So based off of what's been presented in court, I'm not finding that particular question as previously posed as suggestive.

00:40:01.820 I find for the purposes of this hearing only that in-court identification by Agent Hull of Mr. Robinson has been made.

00:40:10.760 Again, this only relates to the preliminary hearing, and you may proceed.

00:40:14.900 Thank you, Judge.

00:40:15.820 agent hole have you reviewed what's been marked states exhibit 12.1 for identification i have yes

00:40:22.980 and where did you review that video uh it was provided to me um i reviewed it on my computer

00:40:31.920 in my office okay and and is that the first time that you've seen this particular video footage

00:40:38.560 this particular version of the footage yes okay so this particular version the first time but have

00:40:44.060 Have you seen the video that comprises, I guess, Exhibit 12.1?

00:40:54.920 I have seen the original videos, if that's your question, yes.

00:40:58.760 So what states Exhibit 12.1?

00:41:01.920 How would you describe it?

00:41:03.180 I would describe it as a compilation of the video that we obtained from Utah Valley University

00:41:09.980 during the course of the investigation that depicts the movements of the individual,

00:41:16.580 I believe to be Mr. Robinson, moving around the campus on September 10th, 2025

00:41:20.480 into the morning of September 11th, 2025.

00:41:24.120 Did you prepare this video compilation?

00:41:27.640 I did not.

00:41:28.440 Okay. Do you know who did?

00:41:30.220 Yes, Utah County Attorney's Office.

00:41:32.080 I believe Ms. Durfler is the one that produced the video.

00:41:34.120 Okay. Do you know Ms. Durfler's first name?

00:41:36.540 Kimberly.

00:41:37.360 Okay.

00:41:38.400 What, if anything, did you do to authenticate the video in this compilation?

00:41:44.500 I reviewed the video to make sure that it was a reflection of what I understood the original videos to show.

00:41:51.620 Okay.

00:41:51.860 What, if anything, else did you do?

00:41:57.000 I reviewed it.

00:41:59.400 I know that there were some zooms and some changes to the footage.

00:42:04.100 Okay.

00:42:05.040 Did you meet with Mr. Olson with regards to this particular video?

00:42:08.920 Yes.

00:42:09.480 This video was also part of that original meeting with Mr. Olson for the prior exhibit, yes.

00:42:14.380 Okay.

00:42:14.980 So at the same time, you sat down with Mr. Olson and discussed the prior exhibit.

00:42:21.220 And let's just be clear which exhibit that is.

00:42:23.300 so i believe the well the the 1102 statement that you gathered from him is exhibit 12.3 correct

00:42:35.340 yes all right so at the same time that you gathered that 12.3 or that that written statement

00:42:41.100 that is stakes exhibit 12.3 you talked to him about this specific exhibit as well yes mr olson

00:42:47.960 was shown this exhibit.

00:42:49.900 And did he include that in that 1102 statement?

00:42:53.820 Yeah, I believe he specifically referenced the exhibit by name,

00:42:57.120 stating that it was a true reflection of the footage from the campus.

00:43:09.300 And let's just go back to what you were stating earlier.

00:43:13.420 To you, it appears to be a compilation of videos that you've already seen.

00:43:17.960 Correct.

00:43:18.480 That you received as a mass dump, I guess, for lack of a better term, if you view video.

00:43:23.020 Is that fair to say?

00:43:23.900 Yes.

00:43:24.680 Okay.

00:43:25.460 And the exhibit 12.1, does it appear to be the same as the raw video that you've seen previously?

00:43:38.120 It does, yes.

00:43:38.820 Are there any additions or anything different about this particular exhibit?

00:43:45.980 There are some portions of the video where a zoom is initiated, which wasn't a function of the cameras.

00:43:51.720 I believe some specific individuals have been blurred from the footage.

00:43:55.860 And I believe there are some red circles to show poignant information or individuals within the footage itself.

00:44:02.340 Okay.

00:44:02.800 So other than the red circles, the blur, and the zoom, does it appear to accurately depict what you've seen in the raw video footage?

00:44:11.640 I believe so, yes.

00:44:15.980 On your screen, I'm going to have displayed an image.

00:44:25.560 Let me know when you see it.

00:44:44.500 That image is there now.

00:44:45.980 Oh, it's gone again.

00:44:49.860 Is it there?

00:44:51.140 We're back, yeah.

00:44:51.960 Okay, we're back.

00:44:53.240 So do you recognize what this is?

00:44:56.880 Yeah, this is the first frame of the video compilation that we just referenced.

00:45:01.940 And again, this video portrays what you believe is Mr. Robinson visiting campus that day?

00:45:08.780 Correct.

00:45:09.420 Okay, and is it throughout the day?

00:45:10.880 It is, yes.

00:45:11.540 And then I believe you said into the early morning hours of the 11th, is that right? 0.98

00:45:15.100 Correct.

00:45:15.980 Okay.

00:45:24.860 Justice State would move to admit what's been marked State's Exhibit 12.1.

00:45:33.260 Ms. Nestor.

00:45:36.580 Your Honor, we have objections to its admissibility.

00:45:42.180 um the this is a compilation video that was put together from a bunch of different sources by

00:45:49.960 the county attorney's office um this individual did not create this compilation um can't testify

00:45:58.180 to the um accuracy of the actual um materials that it was taken from and furthermore um

00:46:09.440 And Mr. Olson himself is just referred to by Agent Hall.

00:46:15.420 He specifically says people have altered these recordings.

00:46:19.880 They've zoomed in when the actual recording isn't zoomed.

00:46:23.200 They've added little circles to people they want you to pay attention to.

00:46:26.700 They've blurred people's faces out.

00:46:28.680 So, I mean, it's been clearly altered.

00:46:30.960 And it's not, I mean, they admit it's been altered.

00:46:34.020 So we have real concern about authenticity of it.

00:46:37.220 Furthermore, this particular video should be protected,

00:46:41.700 and so that deals with the admissibility factor.

00:46:43.620 As far as the publication factor of it,

00:46:47.360 the video should be classified as protected under UCJA 4-202.02 subsection 5J as in Jelly Bean

00:47:00.920 and then little I and little double I

00:47:04.240 because this is going to interfere with the defense's ongoing investigation,

00:47:08.980 with Mr. Tyler's ability, I mean, with Mr. Robinson's ability to get a fair trial.

00:47:14.220 This is basically putting together photos that are clear with photos that aren't clear,

00:47:23.660 putting them all together in such a format that it makes the case that it's all one person.

00:47:30.360 It would be extremely prejudicial for people that may ultimately serve on this jury to watch this video before this case goes to trial.

00:47:39.600 We don't believe a proper foundation's been laid, which would make it admissible at this point.

00:47:45.020 So the fact that it would be shown to the public would be extremely damaging to the ability to put on a defense at trial.

00:47:51.920 And so we object to its publication both in the courtroom and to the media, Your Honor.

00:47:57.500 Mr. Sturgill.

00:48:00.280 Judge, Ms. Nestor is correct.

00:48:01.700 This is a compilation of a series of videos.

00:48:04.640 The videos as Detector, as Sergeant Hull has testified to, is a compilation of raw videos

00:48:16.200 that he has received from Utah Valley University.

00:48:20.120 And he has not only seen this video, but he has seen all the raw footage.

00:48:24.900 and by his estimation or according to his testimony these are all videos that that are

00:48:32.220 accurate and they depict what the raw footage depicts other than those minor additions judge

00:48:38.820 if you refer to mr olson's written statement it's plaintiff's exhibit 12.3 he too has reviewed this

00:48:47.560 video. And he has also identified this video as being accurate with the exception of those

00:48:55.260 additions. In his words, it's the zooms and the red highlights. They weren't part of the original

00:49:00.800 recording, according to Mr. Olson. But other than that, as he states, the same as Agent Hull,

00:49:09.800 these videos are accurate. And they were captured by UVU surveillance video.

00:49:17.560 Do you have a version of this video that does not have alterations such as zooming or circling?

00:49:27.100 My concern is that if the 1102 says what it says about the videos, these were the videos, but then it was altered.

00:49:38.420 And typically an exhibit which has been altered, and if it wasn't done by the person who supplied the 1102, that that can become problematic.

00:49:47.560 And so do you have a version of this exhibit that does not have the zooming in or the circling?

00:49:54.200 Again, I don't know all the alterations that were made, but that seems to fall outside the 1102

00:49:59.660 because you don't have a person testifying 1102 saying, I made the alterations.

00:50:06.160 And so that's the concern of what Ms. Nestor was talking about as it relates to the state's evidence.

00:50:14.440 I have that concern about those alterations.

00:50:17.280 I don't, again, I don't know when they were made, what they were made, how much was done to manipulate the video.

00:50:24.900 And I say manipulate to, not saying in a nefarious way, but I don't know what the scope of that is and how much it deviates from what was the original form.

00:50:37.940 Judge, to answer your first question, do we have a version of this particular video that has not been altered?

00:50:44.200 We don't, not right now, not today.

00:50:47.280 So, I guess there's a, well, there's a couple of things I'd simply like to point out, Judge,

00:50:53.720 and that is that we have two witnesses who have watched the raw footage.

00:50:57.920 And Agent Hull here today on the stand and Mr. Olson in the form of his written statement.

00:51:04.780 They have both said that this video, with the exception of these alterations,

00:51:08.940 accurately depicts the video that was captured by UVU surveillance video.

00:51:14.980 Judge, I will proffer that those changes made to the video were not done by either.

00:51:20.340 I know who that person is.

00:51:21.880 We could actually call that person as a witness if that would cure that.

00:51:26.440 And we're prepared to do that if necessary.

00:51:29.380 But, Judge, I think that our burden is to simply authenticate what this is.

00:51:38.040 And it is a video that, with only a few exceptions, alterations, that really don't change the substance of the video or the content of the video, they're accurate.

00:51:50.360 They depict what the cameras captured on September 10th and the 11th.

00:51:54.500 And we have two people who have seen that raw footage, and they've explained that's the only difference between what we have originally in the original videos and what you're seeing here today.

00:52:05.340 And the additions, I will submit, Judge, were only added to make it easier to view.

00:52:12.700 All right.

00:52:13.760 Anything further from the parties?

00:52:15.880 No, no.

00:52:17.200 I'm going to go ahead and I'm sustaining the objection.

00:52:21.520 Typically, when exhibits are admitted to the court, it is without alteration.

00:52:26.260 If a party circles an exhibit, a photograph, that's not the original format.

00:52:31.480 And I do not have the person who made the alteration, an 1102, to substantiate that.

00:52:39.760 And what I have is the original video and Mr. Olson saying, this is the video minus the alterations.

00:52:47.260 And we have Agent Hull saying, this is the video and there are alterations, but I'm missing a link.

00:52:53.380 And it may be minor, but in this type of case, I want to be thorough.

00:52:58.660 And I want to make sure that what is minor is still important.

00:53:03.160 And for those reasons, I'm going to sustain the objection and leave it to the parties on how you wish to handle the video.

00:53:09.680 In the future, I don't want to provide guidance either way.

00:53:12.560 But as it stands today, this exhibit, state's exhibits, 12.1 is not admitted.

00:53:20.800 Okay.

00:53:21.320 Judge, could I have just one moment?

00:53:22.600 You may.

00:53:28.660 Thank you.

00:53:58.660 Thank you.

00:54:28.660 agent hole you testified that there were four visits to campus that day correct yes and it

00:54:46.540 the the first three visits um based on what you have observed um is your opinion that those videos

00:54:54.340 were captured by UVU surveillance video.

00:54:56.520 Is that correct?

00:54:57.060 That is correct, yes.

00:54:57.760 Okay.

00:54:58.800 The fourth visit, well, the fourth visit, too,

00:55:09.000 was captured by UVU surveillance video.

00:55:10.580 Is that correct?

00:55:11.220 Correct.

00:55:11.820 Okay.

00:55:13.700 Was there any other video that was collected

00:55:15.700 either on the 10th or the 11th that you believe

00:55:23.500 might be important or relevant to today's hearing?

00:55:27.860 There was a large amount of video.

00:55:30.940 I'm going to be a little bit more specific.

00:55:33.820 Was there, other than UVU surveillance video,

00:55:38.520 was there any other video that you collected

00:55:43.840 and subsequently gathered an 1102 statement for?

00:55:49.240 Yes, we collected ring doorbell footage from the surrounding neighborhoods.

00:55:52.360 Okay.

00:55:53.500 Let me ask you this.

00:55:55.380 Did that include video from a residence located at 680 West, 925 South Orem?

00:56:13.420 Yes, that's in the Horseshoe area.

00:56:15.800 Yep.

00:56:16.140 Okay.

00:56:18.180 That's in Orem?

00:56:19.540 Correct.

00:56:20.180 And close to campus?

00:56:21.400 It is, yes.

00:56:21.960 Okay.

00:56:22.320 Okay. And what can you tell us about that video?

00:56:26.040 It was a ring doorbell video that was provided that showed a vehicle consistent with the one we had identified as belonging to Mr. Robinson parking in front of the residence across the street.

00:56:39.660 Okay. And what can you tell us about the timing and the, well, the timing of that parked vehicle?

00:56:45.520 If I recall, that vehicle parked approximately 0.38 hours on the morning of the 11th.

00:56:55.860 Okay.

00:56:56.480 So 0.38 hours, what time is that to regular people?

00:57:01.900 Just after midnight.

00:57:03.360 At 12.38 a.m.?

00:57:04.940 In the morning, yes.

00:57:05.740 Okay.

00:57:08.660 So how did this video come to your attention that you're talking about, this doorbell or whatever?

00:57:15.360 This footage was obtained as part of the canvas of the area

00:57:19.080 that was conducted as part of the investigation.

00:57:22.800 Were you able to identify the owners of that residence?

00:57:26.480 Yes.

00:57:27.140 Where that video was collected from?

00:57:28.860 Correct.

00:57:29.420 Okay.

00:57:29.700 And do you know who it was collected from and by whom?

00:57:32.460 It was Mr. and Mrs. Noble.

00:57:34.440 I believe Agent Davis collected the video directly from them.

00:57:38.980 Okay.

00:57:40.420 And do you know what date it was collected?

00:57:42.820 if i can refresh from my notes if referring to your notes we'll refresh your memory

00:57:48.800 go ahead and look at that don't read it out loud

00:57:51.480 i don't have the specific date but i do know that myself and agent davis returned to the address

00:58:10.340 as we had done with previous videos

00:58:14.400 and had the owners of the video verify that it was from their system.

00:58:19.340 And we did have them complete an 1102 statement, which would be dated.

00:58:23.840 Okay.

00:58:24.780 Do you know, so let's talk about this.

00:58:28.680 What does this video look like?

00:58:32.000 It's a nighttime view looking from the front porch of the residence across the street.

00:58:37.440 Okay.

00:58:38.140 And what about that video?

00:58:39.380 Why was this particular video significant to you?

00:58:42.520 Why do you think it was related to this case?

00:58:46.080 We know from the UVU footage that the person we believe to be Mr. Robinson

00:58:51.640 had an interaction with law enforcement.

00:58:54.400 And a short period after that, the vehicle comes to that house.

00:59:02.380 And some additional evidence that was collected from cell phone data and things

00:59:07.380 indicated that Mr. Robinson was in the area and we were able to locate the footage of his vehicle

00:59:13.440 on that ring doorbell camera. Or at least what you believe is his vehicle.

00:59:17.520 The vehicle we believe to belong to Mr. Robinson, yes. And is there something about this particular

00:59:21.880 video and this vehicle that was captured that leads you to believe that it was Mr. Robinson's

00:59:28.700 vehicle? Yeah, the vehicle has very distinct wheels. I won't say that they're wholly unique.

00:59:37.380 But in terms of the video footage that we were reviewing, the wheels on the vehicle are fairly unique and stand out on the video footage.

00:59:46.800 So, again, this is video that you received early on in the investigation.

00:59:51.900 Yes.

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01:04:11.200 What did you meet with about this video?

01:04:12.680 Met with Mrs. Noble.

01:04:13.960 And what did you do with Mrs. Noble?

01:04:16.160 We did what we had done before.

01:04:18.280 We had a specific file that we wanted, or files that we wanted her to verify.

01:04:23.240 The footage itself is broken into, I believe, 10-second segments.

01:04:28.180 So we had specific files that we had her view and confirm that they were actually from her system.

01:04:35.480 Those were written on the 1102 as they have been before.

01:04:39.280 Okay, and who wrote those file names on this particular statement?

01:04:42.500 I believe it would be my handwriting on the 1102.

01:04:45.240 All right, what did you do next?

01:04:48.000 We had a view the videos and then complete a statement

01:04:51.920 verifying the authenticity of those videos on an 1102.

01:04:55.740 Was this also prepared on a State Bureau form?

01:04:58.860 I believe this was on a State Bureau

01:05:00.160 investigations form, yes.

01:05:01.760 And in this particular form,

01:05:03.500 on which Ms. Noble provided her statement,

01:05:05.360 does it have the advisory that it would be used

01:05:07.640 in lieu of her testimony here today?

01:05:09.560 It does, yes.

01:05:10.340 Does it also contain a warning

01:05:11.840 that if she gave a false statement,

01:05:13.220 she would be punished or it's punishable by a class A misdemeanor?

01:05:16.740 Correct.

01:05:17.500 Okay.

01:05:24.900 I'm gonna have displayed on your monitor

01:05:26.580 what's been marked state's exhibit number 13 identification.

01:05:31.080 Let me know when you see that, would you?

01:05:32.720 I can see that.

01:05:33.980 Okay, and I'm gonna have my assistant

01:05:37.680 scroll through that slowly.

01:05:43.220 Okay, do you recognize that?

01:05:58.220 I do, yes.

01:05:59.220 What is that?

01:06:00.220 It's the 1102 that myself and Agent Davis collected from Ms. Noble.

01:06:05.220 Okay, and it appears, does it appear to be in the same condition as when you collected it?

01:06:09.220 It does, yes.

01:06:10.220 This is a copy, right?

01:06:11.220 Yes.

01:06:12.220 yes okay and the personal identifying information appears to be redacted is

01:06:22.460 that right it has been redacted yes it wasn't redacted when you collected it

01:06:27.100 right no no the original form was not redacted so other than the redactions

01:06:30.760 it appears to be in the same conditions it was when you collected that that is

01:06:33.920 correct state would move to admit exhibit 13

01:06:36.140 Ms. Nassar. I know we renew our concern about unconstitutional hearsay being

01:06:44.720 admitted. We also have the same concerns about the fact that the Agent Hull amended

01:06:55.580 this himself and there's no foundation as to when he filled that in if it was

01:07:00.400 before or after she signed it and due to all those reasons we object to its

01:07:05.340 admission and

01:07:07.240 object to its publication as well.

01:07:09.720 Mr. Sturgill. Judge,

01:07:11.420 again, it was collected in compliance with

01:07:13.200 Rule 1102 of the Utah

01:07:15.380 Rules of Evidence,

01:07:18.360 specifically

01:07:19.020 subsection B8.

01:07:21.920 It's in writing.

01:07:23.580 It's on a form. It includes both

01:07:25.240 the advisory and the warning.

01:07:27.660 And it was collected

01:07:29.080 by Agent Hull.

01:07:32.140 It's also

01:07:33.060 collected in compliance and being

01:07:35.320 introduced as reliable hearsay which is lawful to do here in Utah under the

01:07:41.240 state constitution article 1 section 12 do you wish to lay more foundation about

01:07:46.280 when the statement was written whether it was before it was signed or not I

01:07:49.420 can do that judge I appreciate that yes agent hold do you recall when you

01:07:54.880 collected this written statement from Miss Noble yes it was in April in April

01:07:59.380 do you know what day April 6th I believe okay and you collected that did you go

01:08:04.720 her home i think is that what you said yes myself and agent davis went to the residence okay and

01:08:09.280 did you sit there while she prepared it i did yes and did you witness her sign it i did yes okay

01:08:15.280 there's at this point i'd move to admit

01:08:19.040 uh exhibit 13. all right and to the state representative could you scroll down

01:08:23.680 okay all right pursuant to the Utah rule of evidence 1102 and article 1 section 28

01:08:38.860 I'm sorry article 1 section 12 which allows for a reliable hearsay I'm going to move it into it's

01:08:49.060 going to be admitted into evidence over the objection of defense I note in

01:08:55.660 particular it states that I confirmed that the above files were taken from our

01:09:01.540 nest doorbell videos and are accurate and in right before that's a statement

01:09:11.320 is the notations that were allegedly made by agent whole and so for those

01:09:18.220 reasons court finds proper foundation has been laid and that this and exhibit

01:09:24.520 in its entirety is admitted into evidence as it relates to publication I

01:09:31.300 will authorize publication in the courtroom and by the media if they so

01:09:37.000 wish to capture it in that form again following the same formats have it on

01:09:42.520 that first portion of the screen for about 10 seconds and then scroll down to

01:09:48.100 the written portion for about 15 seconds and then scroll to the very bottom to ensure that

01:09:53.760 the full exhibit has been displayed.

01:10:18.100 All right, that concludes the publication of State's Exhibit 13.

01:10:24.020 Okay.

01:10:25.920 Thank you, Judge.

01:10:31.380 The video that you took with you that day when you visited with Noble, or Miss Noble,

01:10:38.760 had you previously, well, you've stated that the videos that you showed, the Nobles,

01:10:47.020 were actually more than one video correct okay and I believe you said they

01:10:51.020 were like 10-second clips if I recall correctly short clips and and you showed

01:10:56.680 Miss Noble all of those all of those videos that are identified in that

01:11:02.260 statement the one shown on the on the statement were shown to Miss Noble yes

01:11:08.900 have you had a chance to review what's been marked state's exhibit number 12.2

01:11:16.520 yes okay and when did you have a chance to review that exhibit

01:11:21.860 i believe that was reviewed last week i believe okay with with yourself okay and and does that

01:11:31.320 video is it a single video that you watched uh no i believe it's four separate short videos

01:11:38.660 Okay. And as far as, and I understand that, but as far as 12.2 is concerned, what does that exhibit consist of?

01:11:47.940 It shows the vehicle believed to be driven by Mr. Robinson arriving in front of the residence,

01:11:55.420 an individual exiting the vehicle and moving away from it,

01:11:59.040 followed by an individual returning to the vehicle and unlocking it.

01:12:03.020 And then it shows the vehicle a short time later starting and leaving the area.

01:12:07.400 and and those are the videos that you showed miss noble yes what I have

01:12:20.000 displayed on your monitor was been marks plaintiffs or states exhibit 12.2 for

01:12:24.740 identification let me know as soon as you see should be a still image I can

01:12:31.960 It's there. Do you recognize what's depicted there? Yeah this is the view

01:12:37.260 looking what would essentially be west across the street from the Nobles

01:12:42.240 residence. Okay at 1238 a.m. I guess or 038? Yes. Okay and

01:12:53.200 what what is depicted in this I think you've already described that so judge

01:13:03.700 I would move to admit exhibit 12.2 miss Nester

01:13:12.160 your honor we renew our objection to allowing in the evidence without the

01:13:17.560 sponsoring witness I do have some concerns because I'm not totally sure if

01:13:22.000 this compilation if this is a compilation or if this is just one of the one two three four five

01:13:29.200 at least six videos they took from the nobles so if we could have that clarification i think that

01:13:37.360 that concerns me about authenticity that i don't understand if this is just a portion or if this

01:13:42.640 is the whole thing or is this is all of them or none of them and for those reasons we object to

01:13:48.080 the admission and to publication. Thank you. Mr. Sturgill. That's a good point. And I'll ask

01:13:53.620 additional questions before I re-seek to admit it. Agent Hull, this particular video, you've

01:13:59.160 described taking several videos to Ms. Noble and having reviewed them. Yes. Okay. This particular

01:14:04.220 exhibit, 12.2, have you watched it in its entirety? Yes. Does it consist of either some or all of those

01:14:12.020 videos that you showed Ms. Noble? It does, yes. And is it a single video? Is it a compilation

01:14:17.020 that is to say or is it four different videos or a number of different videos be a number of short

01:14:25.300 videos sequenced okay a number of short videos in sequence I believe that's how this one plays yes

01:14:33.280 okay just again I seek to admit it anything further from the parties

01:14:41.020 All right. Given my previous rulings on exhibits, I applied the same analysis and find that

01:14:51.960 State's Exhibit 12.2, I believe, is admitted over the objection and may be published in the

01:15:01.340 courtroom and by the media, if so chosen.

01:15:04.840 Okay, so before we play this video, again, what is it that leads you to believe that this is Mr. Robinson's vehicle?

01:15:19.580 The shape of the vehicle can be clearly seen as it pulls up, and the distinctive wheels on the vehicle also.

01:15:26.640 And what, well, let's go ahead and play it.

01:15:30.640 Is there any sound associated with this?

01:15:32.980 there is judge but it's it's night sounds it's crickets chirping and um okay i just wanted to

01:15:40.240 see if there was i just wanted to see if there was sound or not okay all right you may play the video

01:16:02.980 Thank you.

01:16:32.980 So, in the first part of that video, what do you see?

01:17:01.880 The vehicle we believe to be driven by Mr. Robinson pulling up and parking across the street but in front of the residents.

01:17:08.880 And then in the next video, what do you believe is displayed in that video?

01:17:13.880 There's an individual who gets out of the vehicle. You can hear the door close and then that individual moves away from the front of the vehicle.

01:17:22.880 There's actually two reflective panels on a dumpster and you can see the individual past those reflective panels.

01:17:30.880 panels. And in the last of those series of videos? The second to last one the

01:17:38.320 individual comes back across those reflective panels to the vehicle unlocks

01:17:41.760 the vehicle and gets into it and then in the last video the vehicle is started

01:17:46.780 and individual drives away.

01:18:00.880 Just one moment, Judge.

01:18:09.980 Yes.

01:18:30.880 Judge, can we approach?

01:18:51.400 You may.

01:19:00.880 .

01:19:30.880 .

01:20:00.880 All right, everybody, welcome into this very special edition of Just the News, No Noise.

01:20:30.280 As you're watching, this is the trial of Tyler Robinson.

01:20:33.680 The judge is set to determine whether the full trial is going to move forward based on the evidence for alleged Charlie Kirk assassin Tyler Robinson.

01:20:42.540 So joining us now to break all of this down and everything that has happened thus far is former prosecutor and career trial attorney, Wendy Patrick.

01:20:49.680 Wendy, thanks so much for being here.

01:20:51.820 Thank you for having me.

01:20:53.560 This might be a very brief convo because the council has approached the bench and they might go back to the proceedings.

01:20:58.460 But what have been some of the biggest takeaways for you today so far?

01:21:02.820 One of the biggest takeaways is the record that this group is making.

01:21:06.340 And I say group because I mean both the prosecution, the defense and the judge.

01:21:10.300 This is one of those cases where you do not want anything going wrong because you're preserving this transcript for potential appeal.

01:21:17.000 And that's really one of the things they're focused on, including this hearing they're having right now.

01:21:21.900 So it seems to me that, you know, as a layperson, they're going through the evidence, trying to figure out what can be admitted.

01:21:27.580 Is there anything that stands out to you as, oh, my goodness, this could be the nail in the coffin for Tyler Robinson or the other side of that?

01:21:36.480 Yes, that's a great question, because one of the things that makes a huge impact is the actual footage of the assassination.

01:21:42.340 I mean, that has to be one of the most damning pieces of evidence in any type of a trial like this.

01:21:47.120 And unfortunately, for those of us that saw it, it is absolutely triggering.

01:21:51.400 So that's the kind of evidence that's explosive in nature.

01:21:55.260 So you bet the defense is going to do everything they can to make a record that indicates they've done what they can to keep it out.

01:22:02.240 On the other hand, that's a big piece of evidence for the prosecution.

01:22:05.700 And while they're justifiably also concerned about the re-traumatizing effect of it, it's a big part of the case.

01:22:13.040 So this is the fine line both sides are watching when it comes to what is the most important pieces of evidence to litigate.

01:22:20.200 So that is one of the reasons why we're seeing so much about that here.

01:22:24.060 Authentication, I have to say, is another big deal at the preliminary hearing, because

01:22:28.320 although you don't carry the same standard of proof, I mean, the judge just has to find

01:22:32.220 probable cause to move the case forward till trial.

01:22:35.320 You also want to make sure that all the evidence is reliable.

01:22:38.040 So you have authentication, admissibility, publication, relevancy, reliability.

01:22:43.540 All of those things that are important at a trial are, to some extent, also important

01:22:47.940 at a prelim.

01:22:48.960 And one more thing I'll add, because I used to be a defense attorney before I was a prosecutor,

01:22:53.120 The defense is testing the waters to see how much of what type of evidence the judge is going to admit, because that's going to inform their trial strategy.

01:23:02.640 They don't have to show their hand at a prelim.

01:23:05.100 Prosecution has to show a lot more evidence.

01:23:07.120 The defense doesn't have to show any, but they do have an opportunity to test some of these objections here, as you see that they're doing.

01:23:14.300 Do you see thus far, because you hear in courtroom terms all the time about preponderance of evidence, have we reached that point yet?

01:23:23.120 Well, it's even less than that at a prelim. It's a slight suspicion. They call it different things in different jurisdictions. But probable cause basically means there has to be enough evidence to proceed to trial. Now, we have enough evidence in the court of public opinion. And given that most of that will be recreated here, you are going to meet that quantum of evidence.

01:23:42.020 But even though everyone knows that's where we're headed, it still has to be done on the record.

01:23:47.600 And that is one of the reasons we have so many questions asked.

01:23:51.120 A big foundation is being laid.

01:23:53.200 Any non-legal observers would be saying, why are we going into all of this?

01:23:56.640 It's just a probable cause hearing.

01:23:58.620 But there's no room for mistakes in a case this high profile and with all the different types of evidence.

01:24:04.940 And as you're seeing, given the judge actually just sustaining one of the defense objections, we can't take anything for granted.

01:24:13.020 And that's why, even though you only need that small quantum of evidence, they're going over and above, crossing the teeth and dotting the eyes to make sure no mistakes are made.

01:24:23.680 Yeah. I mean, I think of all of the high profile trials out there where there have been just procedural errors, things that, you know, not even intentionally tainted the case, but ultimately ended up having the case or not.

01:24:36.000 I mean, we're looking at Harvey Weinstein.

01:24:39.400 I'm trying to think of the NXIVM guy.

01:24:41.720 But over and over and over again, you see this.

01:24:43.860 So I absolutely hear what you're saying because I shudder to think that for Charlie Kirk's millions and millions of fans

01:24:50.520 and people who, by the way, since his death have become supporters of his because they had one view of him.

01:24:57.280 And then when he died, they watched clips and they actually informed themselves.

01:25:00.660 But for those people, I shudder to think what would happen if something went haywire in this case

01:25:05.920 and it got thrown out. And let me add to that. That was excellent. I agree with everything you

01:25:10.820 just said. And in addition to all of that, think about the high profile this case has in terms of

01:25:17.480 who's currently in the courtroom. Can you imagine Erica Kirk, Charlie's parents, all having to sit

01:25:22.100 through a second trial because something went wrong? So there's a lot riding on this going right.

01:25:27.980 Absolutely. And it's been heartbreaking. And I think that for a lot of people,

01:25:31.400 people, but also women out there observing what Erica Kirk is going through, what she went through,

01:25:38.280 what she continues to get dragged through. There's definitely that heartstring element to this, 0.92

01:25:43.360 which I understand in court of law, that is not something that hinges a case of whether it goes

01:25:48.980 forward or whether it doesn't in the case of today's proceedings. Control room, do we have

01:25:55.280 those clips that you guys had initially? Can we show those? Okay. Okay. Awesome. All right. So for

01:26:01.260 those of you who haven't been tuning into this trial because it has been on all day and we're

01:26:04.900 going to be watching it and following it as it goes on throughout the week. But Officer Bagley

01:26:09.600 at one point says that he actually saw the markings of someone in a prone position,

01:26:15.880 a shooting ready position on the rooftop where Charlie was allegedly shot from. Check this out.

01:26:22.620 I'm on top of the Lossie building, which is where the gravel is on towards the bottom center.

01:26:26.540 I'm looking west towards the tent which is in the upper center that you got a white tent

01:26:32.660 You can see the grass down there in the amphitheater

01:26:35.740 You got the hall of flags that's more towards the top center

01:26:38.900 And behind that you've got I-15

01:26:41.200 But what I'm looking at is in the disturbance of the gravels what I saw that day

01:26:46.360 Okay, and what can you describe for the record that disturbance?

01:26:50.260 To me when I got up there and I could see this disturbance of gravel

01:26:55.120 To me, it looks like a sniper pad, a person that has been laid in a prone position, and you've got markings of elbows, knees, and feet to where somebody was in the line of sight of where Charlie's tent was.

01:27:10.000 And for our audience, just FYI, the reason we haven't gone back into that courtroom is because the councils approached the bench and had a conversation, and then it appears that they went on break.

01:27:18.380 So as soon as they come back from that break, we will dip straight back in.

01:27:22.500 But I want to ask you, you know, it's not supposed to matter what the emotions are surrounding this.

01:27:30.180 But I can't help but think that, I mean, unless you are just a stone cold, concrete hearted person, it's got to play into this at some point, even if you don't want to admit it.

01:27:42.060 It's true. And here's what's interesting about that point.

01:27:45.120 It is definitely always a jury instruction that they have to make their decision without passion or prejudice.

01:27:50.160 You can't let your emotions at all color your view of the evidence.

01:27:53.960 You would be amazed how seriously jurors take that admonition.

01:27:57.680 I mean, I've been trying cases for 30 years and they will always admit afterwards that,

01:28:02.120 you know, there was a big disagreement in the jury room because if there's any indication

01:28:06.080 somebody is using emotion instead of fact, they'll make sure they go overboard to prevent

01:28:10.520 that.

01:28:11.180 We're all human beings and it's even tougher for the bystanders in the courtroom to sit

01:28:15.540 through some of this testimony.

01:28:16.540 And if anybody has to walk out in tears, I know Erica Kirk already left at least once today, the jurors have to also make sure they don't let that emotion color their judgment.

01:28:26.580 So if it's something they take seriously, I'm optimistic.

01:28:29.340 I believe that, especially working as a group, most of the time they're able to do it.

01:28:34.400 Wendy, is there a larger picture in all of this that, again, I know, just like the emotion thing, I know it's not supposed to be in their mind.

01:28:43.080 But there to me is an overarching principle here, and it's that political disagreements and grievances should not be solved, I suppose, with violence.

01:28:53.920 Because you look at a case like this and what it says to the American people about the left and the right and the way that each side handles disagreements compared to the other.

01:29:03.800 And I have to think that in this day and age, when we see people constantly trying to kill the president of the United States, shooting up congressional baseball games, shooting up ice facilities, time after time after time, you see this happening.

01:29:16.700 It's frankly, just as an observer, it's coming from one side going towards the other.

01:29:21.800 But there's got to be a piece of this.

01:29:23.580 There's got to be a layer on top of all of this that's informed by the news that we continue

01:29:29.700 hearing, which is that one side carries out violence to try to silence the other.

01:29:35.260 And that partisan viewpoint is also something that jurors will be screened for before they're

01:29:40.420 ever allowed to sit on the case.

01:29:42.020 Because simply by admitting what side you're on, you're also admitting ideology much of the time, not all the time.

01:29:49.180 But that is something both sides are going to have an opportunity to explore.

01:29:52.460 And by the way, that is such an important point.

01:29:54.960 It was actually one of the rationales the judge used in letting the media have access to the proceedings we're watching in real time.

01:30:02.560 The defense didn't want cameras in the courtroom.

01:30:04.540 They didn't want anything live streamed.

01:30:06.100 The judge reminded everyone that we can investigate partisan politics, judicial overview, viewpoints that potential jurors might have and then how to contain those before a jury is selected.

01:30:18.520 Because what you exactly said, it does seem to be one sided.

01:30:21.720 If you look at this administration, they're going to worry that that's going to color the judgment and you're going to have jurors sitting there that are going to be deciding the case based on something other than the testimony and the evidence provided in the courtroom.

01:30:34.920 That is the litmus test. No matter who they are, what emotions they feel, what politics they hold, they can only judge Tyler Robinson based on what comes off the witness stand and what's presented as evidence.

01:30:47.380 Wendy Patrick, thank you so much for this analysis. And this this is going to be ongoing throughout the week unless it ends in the next few days.

01:30:54.140 So we will definitely have to get you back on to break it all down for us. Wendy, thanks so much for being here.

01:30:59.240 Thank you for having me.

01:31:00.160 absolutely all right everybody we're going to have more from the tyler robinson hearing on

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01:32:21.220 Welcome back, everybody. That hearing is set to return in just a few moments. But in the meantime,

01:32:28.560 I want to squeeze in a few more questions with Wendy Patrick, our guest right now. She's former

01:32:32.380 prosecutor and career trial attorney and has a great perspective on all of this. Wendy, I want

01:32:36.860 to ask you about the timeline. As I was just telling my audience, we're going to be carrying

01:32:40.200 this through the end of it today, which I think is supposed to end in about 30 minutes. But

01:32:44.620 it is scheduled to go on throughout the week. Is this the type of thing, the pace that you are

01:32:50.400 seeing today, is that an indication that it will take the whole week? Or do you think that

01:32:54.980 everything will be presented and the hearing will wrap up sooner than that?

01:32:59.180 You know, it's a great question. Judges always ask that question. Counsel, are we really looking

01:33:03.080 at five days or are you going to get everything done in three? When we, had you asked me that

01:33:07.360 question four hours ago, I would say, let's block out next week too. But then we really did seem to

01:33:13.060 pick up the pace and that's as it should be because the defense is getting some idea as to

01:33:17.660 what kind of objections are going to be overruled, what are going to be sustained.

01:33:22.320 They're lodging what we call standing objections to certain types of evidence,

01:33:26.660 which means they don't have to keep reciting them again and again.

01:33:29.580 That's going to cut down on the anticipated amount of time.

01:33:33.120 And there also is an element of the judge at some point will know for a fact he has enough evidence,

01:33:38.460 and it'll be interesting to see if he behaves as many of his peers do

01:33:42.120 and begins to signal to the parties that he's heard enough and there is plenty to go to trial.

01:33:47.280 Now, the key for the defense when we get to that point is they have to make sure they've made all the right objections to try to keep out all the evidence they're going to argue makes it make sense not to move forward.

01:33:59.100 The prosecutor has to do the same thing, except they always go much further than the defense in putting in as much evidence they need and then some in a case of this magnitude.

01:34:08.480 So having said all that, I think we're definitely going to be done this week, possibly before Friday.

01:34:13.980 All right. I want to ask you to give a performance review thus far of each side, the council on each side.

01:34:24.840 Does it seem to you and do they have a reputation?

01:34:27.900 Is there a reputational information that you can give us about each of these sides that tells us, hey, these people are the top of their game.

01:34:34.660 It's going to be a dogfight till the end or maybe not.

01:34:36.940 Uh-huh. Well, because I don't practice in that jurisdiction, I would say I have an even more

01:34:42.080 objective assessment of their performance in the courtroom today. You know, one of the things I

01:34:46.660 would say characterizes this hearing so far is civility. You have both sides standing up,

01:34:52.320 you know, making their objections. They don't raise their voice. Their demeanor is right.

01:34:55.920 And I don't think it's simply because there are television cameras, because what happens is we

01:35:01.160 tend to forget about the cameras when passions sort of take over objectivity. I haven't seen

01:35:06.660 this today. They are being very polite to one another. The judge is very polite. They're even

01:35:12.040 keeled. Their tone is adequate. There is no reason for them to go over the top at a prelim. There's

01:35:17.640 no jury there to rate them. I think they're doing very well. And I think that objective analysis,

01:35:23.020 if it carries through to trial, is going to result with the judge at the end saying it's

01:35:26.720 been a pleasure to work with all of you. The judge also does not seem to be treating either party as

01:35:32.080 if there's some foreknowledge that there's a problem attorney in the bank. Now, maybe there's

01:35:37.360 a Utah lawyer that's going to come in and prove me wrong. But I can tell you what I'm seeing is

01:35:41.820 what the jury is going to see. Because remember, one of the other questions they're asked at the

01:35:45.800 beginning of Wadir is, do you know the parties or any of the attorneys? So there'll be an opportunity

01:35:51.220 to vet that as well. But so far, so good. Okay, Wendy, let me ask you this, because

01:35:56.720 there have been trials out there where there is just absolutely brutal and grotesque video

01:36:03.760 and photos and things like that. And this one, there was a shocking element to the video that

01:36:10.960 we saw of Charlie Kirk. I remember that day vividly. I mean, it was almost a surreal day

01:36:17.220 in our newsroom. We're all shouting at each other from across the newsroom, trying to get the latest

01:36:22.480 information, trying to verify it with two or three sources before we put anything out there.

01:36:27.180 But one thing we knew was that we saw that video and we saw something extremely shocking and frankly

01:36:32.940 evil happen before our eyes. Does that play into this? Is this the type of situation where that

01:36:39.500 gets played in the courtroom over and over and over again so that that makes an impression

01:36:45.920 in those jurors' brains? It won't be played over and over again. It's another great point you make.

01:36:51.320 A judge won't allow that, but it's going to be just as triggering, just as traumatic and just as surreal as it was for all of us when we first saw it.

01:36:59.620 And I'll add, not only is it re-traumatizing for everybody in the courtroom, but remember that assassination really had a worldwide reverberation.

01:37:09.280 There were people that weren't even Christians that were coming up to me.

01:37:13.020 One of the other hats I wear is as a Christian minister and basically admitting they felt like they'd lost a family member.

01:37:19.540 And they weren't yet even people of faith.

01:37:22.320 So understanding the Charlie Kirk effect,

01:37:25.520 no judge is going to allow it to be played over and over again.

01:37:28.460 And I honestly, it seems like once is all you need with footage that shocking.

01:37:34.360 And it's one of those pieces of video where it's not that it's so graphic in terms of blood and gore.

01:37:40.360 It is just so shocking in terms of the way it happened.

01:37:43.980 Surreal is a great word to use.

01:37:45.540 I think we all felt that way.

01:37:46.860 But I believe the jury will be able to see it.

01:37:49.540 Yeah. And, you know, there was this other aspect of it because, you know, so often the

01:37:54.860 left tries to argue on one side of a debate issue and they say, well, you know, you guys

01:38:01.000 just need to come at us with facts. You need to come at us civilly. You need to come at

01:38:04.540 us, you know, in a calm manner. There wasn't anyone out there on the conservative side

01:38:09.540 who came out with more facts, with more civility and with more calmness than Charlie Kirk. 0.70

01:38:16.360 So if they're willing to kill Charlie Kirk to silence him, my goodness, the rest of us, especially hotheads like me, I mean, we're screwed when it comes to their opinion of us.

01:38:25.780 You know, we are hopeful that cooler heads prevail on both sides.

01:38:31.040 You know, there are plenty of people on the left that absolutely decry acts of violence like this or any kind of violence or any type of egging anybody on towards violence.

01:38:40.940 But you are correct. It's a vocal minority and it's a small sliver that really is the problem here.

01:38:47.060 And this is what this trial is about as well. You know, it's not just about an assassination.

01:38:51.460 It's also about the larger political issues that you describe, which is another reason we're going to see a long preliminary examination is that everyone understands what's riding on this.

01:39:01.840 So I have to say, I hope it's a wake up call as the remember the baseball game.

01:39:06.940 And that was a wake up call for both sides for a while.

01:39:09.320 This will be another wake up call that reminds everyone that political violence is never the issue.

01:39:14.420 And that's a bipartisan statement that both sides of the aisle can get behind.

01:39:19.000 Absolutely. Wendy Patrick, always appreciate your analysis.

01:39:21.600 We're going to dip back into the courtroom and hopefully we'll have you on later on in the week to re-up on that on that wisdom.

01:39:28.120 All right, everybody, here we are. Here we are.

01:39:31.200 Sorted out these few questions. We were all in agreement that we want to break through the day.

01:39:35.200 Is that right, Miss Nester?

01:39:36.940 You may proceed with your questions and we'll take it from there.

01:39:46.940 All right. Agent Hole, I asked you earlier after you had testified about all the video that you've watched

01:39:56.940 and video that you believe depicts Mr. Robinson from the UVU surveillance

01:40:02.940 and that combined with the driver's license and the DMV records whether or

01:40:09.540 not you believe that that person that you have seen in the video and on the

01:40:12.540 driver's license record is in the courtroom today and I believe your

01:40:15.940 answer was yes yes that's correct and then I asked you if if you wouldn't mind

01:40:22.140 pointing him out and describing something he's wearing and I don't

01:40:27.000 believe that I allowed you to do that okay would you do that right now yeah

01:40:31.500 Senator, just for the record, we would impose an objection based on the 14th Amendment for due process due to an unduly suggestive in-court ID.

01:40:39.680 Also, we believe there's a lack of foundation establishing his ability to interpret the surveillance video.

01:40:49.240 And based on that, we would object.

01:40:51.860 All right. I note that, well, to the state, do you wish to be heard on what was just stated?

01:40:57.160 Well, Judge, I think we had this discussion, and I think you ruled on that specific objection.

01:41:02.480 And then after you ruled, I just neglected to come back and follow through with the question and the answer.

01:41:08.120 That's my recollection of the bench meeting.

01:41:11.380 I believe I stated for the purposes of this hearing that identification by Agent Hull of Mr. Robinson was made.

01:41:18.240 I could be wrong, but...

01:41:20.780 Well, I just wanted to clarify that, Judge, because there was some question about whether that in fact did happen.

01:41:25.740 and so if that's your recollection of what happened is if you're willing to

01:41:31.680 put on the record that agent Holt has identified the defendant I think we're

01:41:34.860 done does the defense want to be heard

01:41:45.580 of course

01:41:49.460 well if for the for the benefit of the record and for thoroughness if you wish

01:41:58.700 to re-ask that question you certainly well we can see what happens if I could

01:42:06.460 judge I'd like to would you please point him out and identify something that he

01:42:12.320 is wearing yeah I believe that mr. Robinson is between miss nester and

01:42:17.060 of the council wearing a gray suit jacket with a dark tie and a light

01:42:21.200 colored shirt. I would ask that the record reflect that Agent Holt has

01:42:25.300 identified the defendant.

01:42:38.000 I mean I made my objection already. Okay I just wanted to check. Thank you. For the

01:42:45.240 purposes of this hearing I find that agent Hall has identified mr. Robinson

01:42:49.520 again this is only for the preliminary hearing you may proceed because I think

01:42:55.560 for today with agent Hall we're we're done for today we'd ask that at this

01:43:04.860 point we take a break until tomorrow all right so are you saying that you're

01:43:09.420 you're you're gonna recall agent well we're gonna resume with mr. Hall

01:43:14.280 tomorrow morning morning and let me explain to and I was gonna explain this

01:43:18.040 but let me explain why because our intent is to prepare an an original

01:43:23.880 version of the video that has been in dispute today without the circles

01:43:28.340 without the blur and without the zooming in and our intent is to introduce that

01:43:34.020 tomorrow as a different exhibit and we just can't prepare that in the next hour

01:43:40.560 or so so we're going to need this evening uh to prepare that exhibit and we'd like to return with

01:43:46.720 that judge what i would also suggest well let's i guess let me get your your take on that judge

01:43:54.400 all right does the defense wish to be heard about ending for the day we have about 19 minutes until

01:44:00.960 five o'clock what is defense your honor we're happy to accommodate the state on that all right

01:44:06.320 So for today, Agent Hall, you may step down, and we'll resume with your testimony tomorrow morning.

01:44:14.060 Anything further, Mr. Sturgill?

01:44:16.140 Well, Judge, just one other thing, and it's a suggestion.

01:44:20.600 Agent Hall, can you wait just one second? I'm sorry. Go ahead.

01:44:24.000 I'm sure Ms. Nestor may have a position with regards to this,

01:44:27.380 but Judge, we would invite you to review the exhibit that we've been talking about today

01:44:35.660 it is 12.1 we suggest that you look at it between today and tomorrow because our intent is to seek

01:44:47.300 to admit the version where it doesn't have the circle or the blur or the zoom in and if that is

01:44:53.720 admitted we do intend to to introduce that exhibit 12.1 as well and I think it would be helpful if

01:45:02.000 you saw that in advance and you can compare that to the the version that

01:45:07.460 doesn't have the circle the blur and the zooming in I would ask that you do

01:45:15.200 that I don't know if the semester has a different opinion about that but I think

01:45:20.420 it would be helpful in determining whether or not that particular exhibit

01:45:24.720 12.1 is admissible.

01:45:27.460 Ms. Nester.

01:45:33.320 I don't have anything to add to that.

01:45:36.080 I defer to what the court prefers to do on that.

01:45:40.080 I do have another matter before Agent Hull's release that I do want to address with the court,

01:45:44.660 but I don't have any concern if the court wants to look at it in advance.

01:45:48.940 It's kind of a little bit of a long video.

01:45:51.520 I think it's just about five minutes, maybe.

01:45:53.700 it's not very long so if you if you want to wait until tomorrow it's not going to slow the matter

01:45:59.780 down very much but it's up to the court on that all right i appreciate the parties what i'm going

01:46:05.460 to do is i'm going to wait until it's properly before me and a motion has been made for either

01:46:10.980 of the videos and then i'm i'm happy to entertain the motion to review both of them uh or however

01:46:18.180 the parties i i don't want to issue a pre-ruling so i'll wait till it's properly before me and i

01:46:23.220 can take it from there and being that it's about five minutes um i i'm not not too concerned about

01:46:30.420 how much time is needed i also want to be thorough so i'll i'll wait till it's brought before me and

01:46:37.380 we can address it from there and turn to miss nester as it relates to your request um thank

01:46:44.260 you your honor your honor i i recognize that agent hole is the case agent and is working with the

01:46:50.180 state in preparing for this um but he is still on the stand and i would ask that he be instructed

01:46:57.620 that he can't discuss his testimony even though he's the case agent i don't think it's proper for

01:47:02.900 him to discuss his testimony while he's excused for the night mr sturgill all right so agent uh

01:47:11.700 from this moment on until we come back in court you're instructed not to discuss your testimony

01:47:18.180 with anyone uh as you are still on the stand for all intents and purposes and we'll uh if the state

01:47:25.540 recalls you this tomorrow morning then we'll proceed okay all right may this witness be excused

01:47:32.420 for today all right thank you agent hall anything further from the parties or do either party need

01:47:38.420 the benefit of the record before we adjourn not from the state judge all right noting uh neither

01:47:45.380 party wishes to, wishes the benefit of the record. Court is in recess until 9 a.m. tomorrow

01:47:51.740 morning. All right, everybody. So at 9 a.m. tomorrow, we are going to pick back up the

01:48:02.120 coverage inside that courtroom. But for now, I want to bring back on Wendy Patrick. Wendy,

01:48:08.580 Tyler Robinson has been charged with aggravated murder. That is a capital offense. I do believe

01:48:14.160 prosecutors are seeking the death penalty. As you see the evidence thus far today, obviously,

01:48:20.080 we have many more days of this. What do you anticipate will come of their seeking of the

01:48:25.840 death penalty? Do you think we'll reach that? Yes, because, you know, they don't charge it

01:48:30.240 unless they believe they can prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. And that's not even the standard

01:48:33.760 at a preliminary hearing. So, you know, part of a preliminary hearing is, you know, to basically

01:48:39.320 put on all the evidence that's already in the court of public opinion, make it official, have

01:48:43.460 a judge rule on it. It's also an opportunity to test the value of certain pieces of evidence.

01:48:49.400 You know, it's one thing to say, oh, we have camera footage, video footage that captured the

01:48:53.440 incident. We have a sniper pad. We saw somebody in a sniper stance. It's quite another thing to

01:48:58.800 prove it was the man you have in court. And you saw that dynamic illustrated when there was even

01:49:03.600 an objection made to identifying the defendant in the courtroom. So if you think about all of

01:49:08.940 the ways in which the defense is making a case for appeal, you have to think about all those

01:49:13.060 procedural hurdles about admitting what might seem like obviously incriminating evidence

01:49:19.220 actually into the record if there's any grounds not to admit it or not to admit it yet until a

01:49:25.060 proper foundation is laid. It is true you don't need to lay as much of a foundation at prelim as

01:49:30.600 you do at trial, but you still have to pass the relevancy authentication. Not the same hearsay

01:49:36.840 objections are going to fly at a prelim, but you still have to present a reliable amount of double

01:49:42.440 hearsay or triple hearsay, whatever it is, to make sure that a judge has enough to work with.

01:49:47.280 So to that extent, yes, also with respect to what qualifies this fact pattern for the death penalty

01:49:52.940 will have to be presented. They're well on their way.

01:49:57.120 Okay, Wendy, before I let you go, I want to ask you one more thing, because

01:49:59.960 back in December at a hearing then, he reportedly laughed. This happened again today. Erica Kirk

01:50:07.320 left the courtroom. Those types of antics, him chuckling with his attorney, does that have any

01:50:12.840 bearing on anything that happens? It shouldn't, but it does. Absolutely. It has bearing on the

01:50:19.040 judge. Nobody likes to see that. The defense doesn't like to see that. Here's where it gets

01:50:22.780 really dangerous. If the jury sees that, there'll probably be a request to have the judge admonish

01:50:29.060 the jury there not to take anything the defendant does or says at the witness table, at the

01:50:33.500 defendant's table of evidence, but that may be just drawing attention to the problem. So there

01:50:38.180 will be an extended sidebar or a conference if that happens in front of a jury. And if it's

01:50:43.700 happening now, the question would be, is this defendant going to be able to clean up his conduct

01:50:49.440 and sort of keep control of his emotions when the jury's in the courtroom? With a trial that's going

01:50:54.360 to last as long as this one, that'll be a challenge. Well, and my question too is where

01:51:00.040 are his attorneys on this? Shouldn't they be keeping him reined in, including his chuckling?

01:51:04.760 I'm sure they are doing their best. Again, having been a criminal defense attorney earlier in my

01:51:09.860 career, you do everything you could possibly do. You remind your client as much as you possibly

01:51:14.980 can. Things come out on the witness stand that are sometimes unexpected. They're awkward. They're

01:51:20.600 triggering whatever ends up happening. Sometimes a defendant inadvertently sort of transmits

01:51:26.520 emotion from counsel table. In fact, it's more often the rule than the exception that you have

01:51:31.800 a defendant in either emoting something, writing something, appearing to laugh that they end up

01:51:37.480 not being able to control. But a jury sees it. And yes, jurors hold that against criminal

01:51:42.080 defendants. They have to do everything they can in the deliberation room to make sure that doesn't

01:51:46.580 happen. Yeah. I mean, like the emotions that we were talking about earlier, in a perfect world,

01:51:52.120 you would be able to wipe a jurist's mind from something that they saw or heard,

01:51:56.120 but were human, and that stuff just sticks in there,

01:51:58.540 especially if you see something as appalling as a defendant laughing at the misery and the grief

01:52:03.880 and the horror of what Erica Kirk and the children and everyone else has gone through because of what happened.

01:52:10.520 Whitney Patrick, thanks so much for being with us tonight.

01:52:13.120 Thank you for having me.

01:52:15.580 Absolutely. All right, everybody, we're going to take a very quick break,

01:52:17.860 but we're going to have much more for you on the other side.

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Episode 5496： Charlie Kirk's Assanitaion Trial Begins

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