WarRoom Battleground 290： Pregame For The Trump Townhall
Episode Stats
Summary
In this episode of War Room PODCAST, we have a special guest on the show today, C.J. Chung. We talk about the debt ceiling crisis, the town hall style debate, and how the Tea Party is going to defeat the Authoritarians in 2020.
Transcript
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this is what you're fighting for i mean every day you're out there what they're doing is blowing
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people off if you continue to look the other way and shut up then the oppressors the authoritarians
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get total control and total power because this is just like in arizona this is just like in georgia
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it's another element that backs them into a quarter and shows their lies and misrepresentations
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is why this audience is going to have to get engaged as we've told you this is the fight
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all this nonsense all this spin they can't handle the truth war room battleground here's your host
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stephen k bannon okay welcome uh it is uh wednesday 10 may in the year of our lord 2023 uh thank you
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for rolling over from the previous hour uh so we got a lot to get to we're gonna we're gonna pregame
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the uh town hall um tonight on on cnn and we're gonna actually stream that on getter
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i want ever if you want to join the community get on getter and we're gonna live stream this
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night it's totally free it's easy to do if you have any questions just you know go get to mo or
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get to grace chung right now make sure you do we're gonna have a live chat going in the entire time we
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want you part of the community uh this is a big deal the re-platform as i said and i called this
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caitlin collins has just been announced a leak over at cnn she's been given i think a huge contract
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and she's going to host the 9 p.m she's going to get the 9 p.m slot you could see that one coming a
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mile away and for all those that knew caitlin uh early in her career over at tucker carlson's um
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daily caller i know that uh everybody uh congratulates her uh so we're gonna get to
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all that i've got to go to the border i've got barris has got a new set of numbers on florida but
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he's going to go back to his national polling i've got one of the leaders the uh public intellectuals
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and thought leaders of the conservative movement and dare say i the mega movement daniel mccarthy
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for modern age uh he's got an amazing piece up in american mind uh that i've had up on my getter
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account since early this morning when i saw it we got a lot to get to crom i want to finish with you
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crom how do people uh and here's the thing you know to man the ramparts of the warm every day
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it gets the tensions a little there because we got the you know the the war and posses the head of the
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creditors committee we got them jammed in the corner they're hating on the war room posse because what
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we're doing on the creditors committee uh in this debt ceiling fight uh we're the biggest advocates
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of closing the border all of it uh and we know it's stressful to people so if you're going to be
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lion-hearted you need uh you need salty for your heart how do people actually order it walk through
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the process of how they actually get it steve the the simple way to get uh salty is to go to
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warroomhealth.com that's warroomhealth.com and that'll take you through war room health to salty
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and then when you order the subscription which is by far the best way to do it because our product
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one part of the liver and it also seeps out into your bloodstream and helps your cardiovascular
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cardiovascular system but then when you get to salty and you buy the subscription if you'll use
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the code war room at checkout that's war room at checkout you'll save 29.95 off your very first
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shipment which is a 50 discount and then after that on the subscription we ship you 90 day supply
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every 90 days and you get three bottles for the price of two on an ongoing basis and we always pay
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the freight so there are no surprises and it is a it's a great product and uh and i thank you so
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much steve for letting me tell the posse about salty now this concentrate of green tea is just
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incredible and uh you've done such a great job in developing this product uh crom uh good to have
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you back thanks for being on today thank you thank you crom carm michael kind of bifurcated that right
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first part in the first half of the show and the second part in the in the second hour i've got a
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lot of stuff on the border but i'm not going to just hold it i think we're going to we're going to
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change things up here i want to hold that there's some very dramatic footage as you know today we had
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todd bensman down uh and todd bensman was i think in in reno so he's right down there uh oh no he
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might have been a little farther south might have been across from from brownsville uh very dramatic
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footage from todd today very dangerous down there we had uh congressman wesley hunt on the last hour
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and and he's talking about tomorrow we're going to vote on this border security bill
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uh i know for a lot of folks in this audience is not as hardcore as we want but it's what they can
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get past right now and it's pretty pretty impressive um not that that's going to that's not a that's not
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going to solve the crisis we have right now the crisis we have right now the state of texas has got
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to step up abbott's got to stop the happy talk although we are seeing some footage from authorities
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in texas kind of repelling saying hey you can't come in so we're going to get to all that a little
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bit later i want to get a barrison here been doing he's been in the field and he's out and richard
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particularly for tonight because uh this is a very important inflection point there's a lot of numbers
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coming out that shows that uh trump has a uh not an insignificant lead over uh over biden and many
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of the polls uh that he is uh spreading the feeling dominating on the primary and i keep advocating
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we don't need a primary this is just a distraction for the for the moneyed interest to try to take
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shots at at trump through all the instruments they're going to use uh but you've got new
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polling coming out of florida i want to i just want to hit the reset button and remember a couple
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hours away from the from the town hall there's a big the re-platforming a president trump tonight
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i don't believe the entire first term he was ever on cnn i think we they we had these huge fights
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in the campaign with zucker and these guys who are just terrible people and they essentially banned
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a sitting president from actually being on cnn i think the entire time so tonight's a very big deal
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uh and i'm quoted there's a bloomberg story up now on the terminal for all you traitors lead story in
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bloomberg and i talk about this is a very important moment for president trump but it's also this fight
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between murdoch and malone and about what they're trying to turn cnn to what fox is doing and fox is
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it's coming hard after uh after tucker as you can see this this is very very complicated uh but we're
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gonna get to more of that richard first off hit the rewind button talk about your national polling
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particularly as we're getting into this town hall tonight where does this whole race where does trump
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stand nationally before we drill down on your your new poll which you're just coming out on florida
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yeah steve we're doing national polling and thanks for having me on as always we're you know
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we're doing national polling almost uh every day now uh so the idea is whether or not trump
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holds and maintains this 60 percent and whether or not the santus goes back near 20 or he falls so
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that's why we continue to keep going with this national polling and then we looked at florida because
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we wanted to know you know we're we're all looking at a lot of these earlier states and people will
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start to see the results of them soon but this is such a blowout nationally that to me the number
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one question was is this even close in florida anymore this is the governor's obviously his his
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state uh we have seen governors lose their own home states before to eventual nominees it happened by the
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way jeb bush was out before they even got to florida so i want to you know preface that you know preface
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these numbers with that that florida will react you know to the national numbers and it will react to
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primary victories and caucus victories that come before it so can we throw up the first slide which
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just shows the uh republican presidential nomination polls so since i've been on monday you know i mean
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the numbers haven't really changed that much trump is at 60 um desantis ticked down almost another full
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point but 16.16 let's be fair round up to 17 uh this is a stable margin for trump that is a blowout
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nationally and if you look at florida right below it that's the first one is with all of the candidates
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that we poll nationally also in the race trump is below 50 in florida which is the one of the only
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states that he is okay ho ho ho ho slow down slow down slow down slow down yeah particularly for our
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podcast and vast radio audience that can't see that can't see the uh the d i want to go back
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because you're not saying it tongue-in-cheek rounding up the spread between trump and uh and
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desantis desantis is at 70 you're the first guy and i give you full credit because i said eventually
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you're going to see desantis in the 20s and you corrected me he said no steve i think the way i'm
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seeing trending you're going to see desantis in the teens and i never thought you'd see desantis
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in the teens i thought he'd get to the low 20s but now you're talking mid-teens and you're saying oh
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let's round up he's the trump versus desantis when you look at it from a national perspective and i
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understand and the desantis camp is selling hard that hey you can't look at nationals you got to look
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you know state by state although you just made the brilliant point all of the states are informed by
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how things are going to roll nationally no no no state is an island unto itself and people that
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think that don't understand the way that the information society works so go back we say
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rounding up to 17 percent is talk to me about desantis in this primary from a national perspective sir
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if you're down steve 43 points to 45 points on any given day uh nationally the the competitive
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states especially the early primary even your own home state uh you're not going to be competitive in
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them that translates to other states national polls lead states and as we start to see voting uh trump
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holds these leads beats him in iowa they pivot they go to new hampshire this is going to get uglier
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for desantis not better it will get uglier ask rudy giuliani he planted his whole strategy on florida in
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2008 and it didn't work why because the fundraising they start to get weak at the knees i can't give
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to you if you can't carry delegates um by the time we get to florida even though florida's earlier than
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it was back you know back then by the time we get to florida voters there's no nice way to put it other
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than this steve voters don't want to vote for a loser all right i'm not talking about hardcore mad
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but there's something deeper here too your it was announced today right they had it on the hill and
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i think they had it in the journal i think the journal journal excuse me bloomberg broke it bloomberg
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broke it steve schwartzman and schwartzman and ken griffin been two of the big driving forces and
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back i mean these guys they can write a hundred million dollar check and it does not impact at all
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their personal lifestyle i want you to think about they could write a hundred million dollar check
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and it'd be like you they know these guys can write a hundred million dollars cash money and it has
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no impact on how they live their lifestyle that's the type of stroke these guys have schwartzman
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told bloomberg today and they had it up on the terminal before the opening of trading today
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he's out as far as desantis goes a big part of that is your your polling and others are coming
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in they're showing desantis in a kind of a free fall or bottoming bottoming out bottoming out
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in the mid to high teens and he's a you know these guys these hedge fund guys are mathematically
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inclined they sit there and go hang on for a second he's 43 to 45 points behind before this thing starts
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against a a beast like trump that's the counter puncher of all counter punchers and these ads that
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trump's been running on social security particularly have had some impact this is why schwartzman and
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i'm telling you desantis's entire logic of his campaign is built around wall street money to
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stop the populism ken griffin's very blunt about this it's to stop populism the murdochs are very
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blunt about this this is why tucker's off the eight o'clock slot your numbers are showing it how
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uh how bad can it get any worse for desantis on a national level when you're in the high teens right
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now i yeah i i think i think so i hate you know i i i'm i'm going out on a limb here but i say that
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because when he was at 31 in our poll i didn't expect until later and we spoke i didn't expect that
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he would fall to 20 that quickly uh that's why i i said he's going to go below 20 because it was
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just so rapid so now i thought over the weekend 17 18 you know that's it he's not going to dip
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into 16s and last night he was in 16 i mean that's why he's down now more because last night he was
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below his average of 17 uh point something usually now at this point in the game so it's pulling him
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down even further and the more days we accrue if this continues the more he'll fall so it it is
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possible steve in florida specifically two things made a really big deal one trump's recovery with
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seniors that were giving desantis a look and that has been going on for a month but two we heard an
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awful lot about this overseas trip uh you know florida voters god florida voters what are you doing
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in japan what are you doing in great britain like nobody believed that he was out there trying to
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gather jobs steve for florida they know he's trying to run for president so they're looking at especially
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older voters these older republican voters do their due diligence they really look the what came out of
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it i love him as governor he's not ready for prime time and when we push them in this two-way race
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so trump is just under 50 in the in the full field in florida and desantis is at 36 and i can give some
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specific demographics before we move into the two-way push which is basically if you only had
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trump and desantis to pick and you had to make a decision you know you try to nudge them to do it
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um that's you know just a head-to-head but even before we do that steve trump is only ahead with
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whites 49 36 he's ahead with hispanics in florida 56 to 33 so in this whole big you know to do from
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team desantis about how well he did in south florida which i have argued was happening no matter what
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mickey mouse would have carried miami dade steve you and i have been talking about this for years i've
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been trying to tell people this was going to happen in miami dade in miami dade hispanics are backing
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trump so that should tell you everything you need to know monroe would be closer pinellas would be
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closer uh but generally uh out where you know it's gates territory in the panhandle that's
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trump dominant north central florida trump dominant southeastern florida trump dominant goal and the
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space coast trump dominant so desantis does best with some older more traditionist voters but he doesn't
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have to lead with them anymore so when we push and we say okay it's just trump and desantis
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level best what's it going to be then that's where you can see if you put that up again you'll see
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trump increases from the full to the two-way he increases almost 10 full points desantis does go
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up he goes from 36 to 41 trump more it basically doubles what desantis uh gets in a two-way so how
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much so this concept the desantis campaign has been pushing all these donors the donors aren't buying
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anymore and it's probably smart that they're not the idea that you can get them in a two-way race
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and beat them as long as you get them head to head is not true anymore it's not even true in the sunshine
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state let alone some of these other states new hampshire we're looking at like two to one leads
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uh in a two-way race right now so uh this you said before that his entire campaign is based off of some
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flawed uh some you know flawed money people they made some flawed assumptions that's really what
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this comes down to you know the indictments are going to hurt him if i get him head to head i can
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beat him right now that is not at all true not even in your own home state this is very problematic
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i want a couple things i want to do hispanics once again the hispanic vote this is florida
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56 33 correct 50 let me just look 55.6 to 33.3 so right there i mean my god steve that's 23 points
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i mean 24 if you round i mean this is not close in in in a two-way of just trump desantis in in uh in
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florida give me that number again in the two-way with trump and this trump goes from 47.8 to 57.6
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desantis does increase from 35.8 but he only increases to 40.7 um and and and again the undecided
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oh i almost forgot this this is very important the undecided in the full race is four and a half
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percent when you match them head to head it falls to 1.7 so again you have to change minds at this point
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it's not simply enough that you're going to consolidate the so-called anti-trump field
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and get them all behind one candidate and then you'll be able to beat them that is not true
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anymore not only can you you don't have enough votes you have to change minds right good luck
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57 40 wow that that is a blackbuster number uh in in in that's what he based his presence it
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braces run on was all these other the kibler l's falling out he gets trump and a mano a mano
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he can beam it just can't happen but it's not the buried lead in all this and and i want you to repeat
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this as you talk to seniors we like him as governor we don't think he's ready for the big state wanting
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to stay mature do a great job here in his second term and then the world's his oyster essentially that
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that we like him as governor but we're not buying that he's flying around to japan japan excuse me
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korea japan israel and in the city of london in five days on a trade mission for the state of florida
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am i correct in that assumption 100 and there's still they like i said they love him they do they
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just don't love him as president and they even were thinking you know of giving him a a look they
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were giving him a look you know polling florida two months ago de santis would have been ahead
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probably uh there was a time when he was ahead uh so this is a matter of people looking steve that's
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another problem with this idea that he's going to get a bounce after he gets vetted it's in the new
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york times just today he already got his bounce and he's been vetted he was already halfway vetted
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his own state the older the older voters from you know above 45 uh really 50 and above but let's just
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say above 45 that was the chance he had they're very diligent voters they're looking at all of this
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the trip overseas uh you don't you you can't insult people's intelligence too a little part of this comes
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down to that and they still like him but you know don't make it about a trade mission we know what
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you're doing right uh we know you want to run for president and and that's that's fine there is some
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as well uh there there was some voters who did bring up that it really wasn't his time and you
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know trump helped him uh he shouldn't be doing this so there is a danger for de santis of burning
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himself with some of these voters i you know and florida's a little bit different of a case but
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nationally those other voters we were looking at in the trump or bust steve these voters don't forgive
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they don't forgive i'm talking about on a national scale they will not forgive him
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last thing about let's let's let's talk about new hampshire just where we go what is your data
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at a new hampshire uh show tonight is especially registered republicans or people the independents
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are leaning republican these are potential republican voters give us your give us your snapshot and
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thoughts on new hampshire new hampshire when you have the full field looks very close to
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the nation overall um when you pit them head to head it's looking like you know again when it's
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done don't hold me to this but right now it's about 65 35 it bobbles between 65 35 66 33 the
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undecided is getting very small it's very early to see one two percent undecided like we're seeing
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here even nationally the undecided has fallen to five percent that this is very early for this
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you know a couple of months ago our undecided was 10 15 or 18 percent so people are deciding here
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things have happened that made people come to an a decision and to again this is about now if you want
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to be trump you have to change their mind that is much much more difficult than simply persuading
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someone who is on the fence and doesn't know where they're going to go changing their mind requires
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a lot more and i i know that i know what their idea is their ideas is another indictment will come
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and these voters will be spooked by that i don't know steve i i just don't see it i don't see it
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i don't see it they're digging their heels in steve the inflection point was east palestine when he
00:22:03.940
went to east palestine as we say went east palestine only trump can do that only trump can do that and i
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think it reawaken people to 16 and what what this man stands for what this movement stands for richard
00:22:14.980
how do people get to you locals is the best way we're going to look at this trump or bus vote a
00:22:20.560
lot more people's pundit.locals.com if i can steve because we didn't have a chance there's a lot of
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talk about that suburban voter won't vote for uh you know who who may vote for desantis but would vote
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for biden against trump we actually and we're going to talk about this a lot more we put these numbers
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together the trump or bus vote is more than three times the size of that vote and i would love to
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come back and talk about that in more detail because everyone focuses on this tiny little
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share steve and they're missing the 13 and a half million people who would never vote for anybody else
00:22:53.860
but trump it's ridiculous this is what i keep you you've just nailed it i said the 74 million votes
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i said all the keebler l's combined plus throwing a couple are i'm not going to get to 74 million votes
00:23:05.460
no way you got you got it you've you have a you have a phenomenon that just does not happen
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it's i will get you back i'll talk to you after the show and we'll hopefully get you back on tomorrow
00:23:15.100
richard you're doing amazing work thanks brother sounds good sounds good talk to you soon
00:23:19.360
um i want to bring in daniel mccarthy we got a couple of minutes here uh before we go to break
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and then i'll bring daniel back after the break uh daniel uh you're at the modern age uh i think you
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founded the modern age and and you're the editor over there but you're one of the most um brilliant
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on a consistent basis writers and thinkers out there in the conservative movement and i would
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say in the maga movement you wrote this incredible piece for american mind that trump can win uh and it
00:23:51.040
really talked about getting back to 16 and running outside walk us through and take your time give us
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the snapshot first we got a couple minutes here and we'll get into the details on the other side of the
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break give it give us give us daniel mccarthy's theory of the case yeah so i'm in the washington dc
00:24:06.720
area and i interact with a lot of the conservative movements leaders um a lot of folks who've really
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done their uh service in various uh you know not just republican administrations but in the
00:24:17.060
conservative movement in the trenches but they're based here in washington dc and so they wind up being
00:24:22.560
influenced by the kind of mentality that the swamp creatures have and it's a defeatist mentality it's a
00:24:27.880
mentality which says that um the only way that the right can possibly win in elections is to take
00:24:33.780
no risks and of course that's actually proved to be the opposite of the truth that when the right
00:24:37.980
takes risks as it did with donald trump in 2016 it can actually wind up being very successful
00:24:42.620
whereas every time the right tries to play it safe and tries to pick a uh you know a somewhat center
00:24:48.240
right or centrist republican as its nominee uh you find out you get a disaster either you lose the
00:24:53.840
election or you know if you get a george w bush who wins the election he winds up you know governing as
00:24:59.180
uh you know someone who's very little different from a clinton or from an obama it's an utter disgrace
00:25:03.660
so the first thing i've tried to show is that the consensus here in washington which says that trump
00:25:09.400
simply cannot win up against biden that uh you know the um the polls you know supposedly are meant to
00:25:15.920
be so negative on trump that uh republicans should just not even consider him they should just you know
00:25:20.540
automatically look for someone else like desantis uh that's actually not true first of all it's
00:25:24.880
certainly not true today where the the polls actually show uh you know national polling
00:25:29.300
aggregates that you find on real clear politics and elsewhere have donald trump up by about a point
00:25:33.860
right now but even if trump were trailing in those aggregates by you know two points or three points
00:25:38.900
that would still be a sign that he would probably win an election in 2024 uh the reason for that being
00:25:43.940
that if we look back at 2020 and we look at 2016 both of those times trump outperformed on election
00:25:50.240
day what the polling aggregates on election day said he would get and trump always did at least
00:25:54.900
about three points better than what the polling aggregates on election day said he was going to do
00:25:59.240
now if that carries through to 2024 what that will mean is that the 2024 polls they may have you know
00:26:04.980
biden up by two points but that would actually probably be a win on election day for donald trump
00:26:09.940
because of the way the polls are simply very bad at finding trump voters at correctly estimating
00:26:15.820
their turnout and figuring out what we're going to see so that's the the sort of the top line
00:26:20.980
daniel daniel hang on one second we're going to take a short break i want to get into the you just
00:26:25.880
gave us the great summary uh particularly about the washington consensus and i have so many of
00:26:31.200
friends that are also in the conservative great people but you're right it's kind of this they've
00:26:35.360
been so beaten down they're so beaten down they said you got everything's gonna be risk mitigated
00:26:39.600
your point is fortune favors the bold better to be bold here that's the way you win that's the way
00:26:45.220
we won at 16 daniel mccarthy from the modern age his piece is up on american mind we've got it up on
00:26:50.920
the site we're pushing it out everywhere trump can win in 2024 he's gonna walk you through the
00:26:56.900
details we return it's the pregame for the town hall tonight on cnn we're gonna be live on getter
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our currency is crashing and will soon no longer be the world standard which will be the greatest
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00:27:32.620
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00:27:39.700
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00:33:03.500
uh welcome back um our guest is a daniel mccarthy from the modern age and like i said daniel is one of
00:33:13.100
the leading public intellectuals in the conservative movement quite frankly globally in the uh in this
00:33:19.940
movement uh daniel i i don't want to say it's because of your your piece that's so uh well thought
00:33:25.580
through and backed up with with data and backed up with some serious thinking in in uh the american
00:33:31.060
mind but the hill newspaper did lead this morning with the democrats have a sinking feeling that trump
00:33:37.800
is going to win again and then good old rich lowry our buddy over national review has got a piece up
00:33:43.840
in politico this afternoon that that trump can't lose i know it hurt i know it hurt rich to have that
00:33:49.400
headline but go through you you've given us the overall theory of the case take your time and walk
00:33:54.140
through i've carved out some time here because this piece is so important for our audience to understand
00:33:58.980
the intellectual kind of infrastructure that you've got that supports your theory sir
00:34:03.700
yeah one of the important points i try to make in the piece is the idea that there is some alternative
00:34:10.180
republican brand that is more popular than donald trump is completely false and a lot of folks in
00:34:16.200
washington dc they like to imagine that for example george w bush winning re-election in 2004
00:34:22.280
indicates that okay there is some sort of center-right bush style or maybe you know maybe you can take the
00:34:29.880
bush thing and make it slightly more conservative but still try to be compassionate and you can try
00:34:34.360
to win uh with the kind of coalition that george george w bush had in 2004 that you could replay that
00:34:40.680
election and that is a winning electoral map for the republican party and a map back to power for
00:34:45.440
conservatives and i i disassemble that idea i basically dispel that myth um in 2004 george w bush had
00:34:52.540
every possible advantage he was an incumbent the iraq war was still popular uh gay marriage was still
00:34:59.240
a battle that was being fought state by state there were a lot of ballots on state initiatives uh state
00:35:05.200
initiatives on ballots across the country in 2004 that brought out social conservatives the values
00:35:09.740
voters who dragged george w bush across the line in 2004 all of these things were advantageous for george
00:35:16.220
w bush in 2004 and yet even with all of this you know going uh you know on his uh side of the ledger
00:35:22.800
he still couldn't break 300 electoral votes he came within about two states of losing the 2004 election
00:35:28.760
and uh one of the states that he had in his coalition in 2004 was the state of virginia where
00:35:33.520
i live virginia has since become a purple and now basically a blue state in many respects
00:35:38.660
and that electoral map the 2004 map that got george w bush re-elected if you replayed it today it would
00:35:45.020
lose for anyone it would lose for george w bush even with all the advantages he had back then and
00:35:49.700
today of course those establishment republicans or those center-right republicans like bush they don't
00:35:54.560
have those advantages uh you know the the fact that you know you no longer have people going to
00:35:59.740
the ballot boxes in order to vote on gay marriage referenda that's gonna you know mean that you don't
00:36:04.640
have quite as many social conservatives who are going to engage on that issue the fact that uh you
00:36:09.500
know the foreign policy of the bush administration and the republican establishment as a whole has been
00:36:14.040
such an unmitigated disaster that gets you into endless wars that only conclude with national
00:36:18.880
humiliation like we got in afghanistan all of that means that you simply cannot resurrect this uh
00:36:25.180
republican uh you know ghoul this this 2004 republican coalition it's a corpse it can't be you know
00:36:31.680
brought back to life no matter how much electricity you try to pump into it instead what the republicans
00:36:36.800
have hold hold hold daniel daniel daniel hang on one second i just want um and and to carl rove i'm
00:36:45.360
no fan of carl rove he's less of a fan of mine but his credit he made sure those ballot initiatives
00:36:50.720
were on i mean this is one of his great things that he worked on however is this why fox continues to
00:36:57.140
have carl rove on all the time with with his thinking and his strategy is that they believe that
00:37:03.620
that brand can be uh resuscitated i think that's right carl rove has this mystique because people
00:37:10.940
think that he won elections that otherwise wouldn't have been successful whereas in fact you know an
00:37:14.980
incumbent like george w bush with the advantages that he had in 04 was probably going to win
00:37:19.440
re-election and in fact it's kind of a shocking failure that george w bush in 2004 couldn't break 300
00:37:25.040
electoral votes i think the last time you had an election where the incumbent uh didn't break um you
00:37:30.460
know 300 electoral votes and one re-election successfully you have to go back you know before
00:37:35.180
1920 to find examples of that so normally either an incumbent loses re-election you know like jimmy
00:37:40.920
carter or an incumbent wins re-election with you know 300 plus electoral votes george w bush was the
00:37:46.100
only one who broke that pattern one re-election but did it by a very very narrow margin and again
00:37:51.060
that's a sign that uh you know someone like carl rove is not quite the uh mastermind and genius that
00:37:55.320
people think he was by contrast donald trump in 2016 wins more than 300 electoral votes donald trump
00:38:01.680
actually does what people like carl rove thought was impossible and donald trump was able to bring
00:38:06.380
new people into the republican coalition he was able to win states that the republican establishment
00:38:10.780
have been trying to win for about 20 years and constantly failed ever since the 1990 uh you know
00:38:16.320
1992 election states like pennsylvania states like michigan trump was able to win these states because he
00:38:22.220
was talking about a lot of bread and butter issues that ordinary americans responded to he was talking
00:38:26.720
about jobs immigration uh you know he's talking about trade he was talking about foreign policy
00:38:31.640
the idea that we should stay out of these endless wars these you know sort of ideological wars all
00:38:36.580
across the planet to promote democratic revolutions everywhere you know it's not that voters are you know
00:38:41.480
extremely sophisticated about foreign policy and want to you know think about all the different
00:38:45.580
geostrategic moves being made by the different players they just know that when you have a war that goes on
00:38:50.360
in afghanistan for 20 years when americans are coming back missing limbs or they're coming back
00:38:55.500
in body bags when we're pouring trillions of dollars into a complete failed state like afghanistan or iraq
00:39:01.580
that this is a disgrace and it's something that we cannot continue to do indefinitely and of course
00:39:06.200
now the same people who led us into these you know open-ended conflicts in afghanistan and elsewhere
00:39:11.000
they're doing the same thing in ukraine and ukraine may be fighting a defensive war and you know ukraine
00:39:16.200
i think will survive against putin's attack but the idea that you know giving uh you know ukraine a blank
00:39:21.660
check giving unlimited arms and unlimited money is going to deliver results that are going to be
00:39:26.100
dramatically different from what we saw in afghanistan i think that's mistaken i think that you know if
00:39:30.860
we don't have a plan to create a secure peace which is going to require creative diplomacy of the type
00:39:36.340
that trump brought to his administration in 20 uh you know between 2017 and 2021 you don't have that kind of
00:39:42.260
initiative that trump had instead you're going to get a situation of just ongoing chaos instability you
00:39:47.800
know both in ukraine and in russia that's going to be extremely dangerous for america and i think
00:39:51.860
the american people increasingly are aware of this certainly republican voters in the primaries seem to
00:39:56.180
be very much aware of it he gave us four years of peace and prosperity after that historic come from
00:40:02.340
behind win in 2016 uh daniel while i've got you about about the peace and about trump can win in 2024
00:40:09.180
we know this and i know this from the hedge fund guys that that are some of the people that are
00:40:14.100
sponsors of desantis in the room the presentation when desantis is there with the big money
00:40:18.960
is that trump can't win i'm the only one that can that can pull the republican party together
00:40:26.240
all the other people else will fall by the wayside i can beat trump uh in a primary in my messages i'm the
00:40:32.760
only one that can beat a general your your theory of the case and and and the evidence you put in this
00:40:38.300
article goes against that why tell us about it well think about this what is desantis's brand it seems
00:40:45.220
to me that there are two possibilities there one is that desantis is a younger and perhaps less
00:40:51.020
encumbered by legal difficulties version of trump but that's not going to work in a republican primary
00:40:56.300
because of course he's running against the actual donald trump and the actual donald trump already has
00:41:01.040
the affections of millions upon millions of voters they're not going to abandon him they're not going
00:41:05.020
to betray him for the sake of a younger model so if desantis wants to run as the heir to the populist
00:41:10.540
movement that trump uh built up he should be doing that in 2028 rather than trying to do it against
00:41:15.440
trump in 2024 but it just doesn't make any sense the other approach that someone like desantis might take
00:41:20.980
is to say well this entire populist uh project has failed and so you need to have a republican who is
00:41:26.900
just a republican and not a populist republican not a trump republican and you need to have just some
00:41:31.940
alternative some ordinary vanilla republican conservative as you know the uh the uh the
00:41:38.460
the banner carrier the spear carrier of this movement but that doesn't make any sense either
00:41:42.820
because uh the republican brand is if anything much more toxic than the trump brand not necessarily
00:41:48.000
because liberals are more you know sort of outraged by ordinary republicans than they are by donald trump
00:41:52.860
but because a lot of conservative voters a lot of heartland voters a lot of middle americans
00:41:57.700
they look at the republican brand and they say wait a minute this is a brand that's about rich guys
00:42:02.000
this is a brand that's about abandoning uh palestine and abandoning uh you know uh you know small town
00:42:07.660
america abandoning our factories so that that brand that republican brand that is a non-trump brand
00:42:12.820
is not popular at all even with the core uh republic uh republican voting base what the republican voting
00:42:18.980
base wants is to see the party actually be loyal to its interests and its concerns which are about jobs
00:42:24.680
they're about national you know citizenship and identity and they're about uh you know peace and
00:42:29.140
prosperity as opposed to this project of trying to uh bring uh you know the many of the worst features
00:42:35.360
of american progressivism to the entire planet uh through the barrel of a gun
00:42:38.860
daniel let me ask uh because you know this i'm gonna break it down triage it um you have the
00:42:46.760
conservative intellectuals what would you know as well as anybody you have the money the big donors and
00:42:53.160
particularly the big cores of republican money on wall street in an industry and in real estate
00:42:59.380
and then you have uh what is the party the the political operatives and the party that that
00:43:05.500
is here both in dc but then throughout the country why is it when it's so obvious
00:43:11.040
that a populist nationalist movement can bring more people and can have energy why does it seem like
00:43:17.560
all three elements of that of the official traditional republican party spend more time
00:43:23.280
fighting this than they actually do fighting progressive democrats sir yeah i think it's two
00:43:30.120
reasons one is that a lot of them live in virtual reality uh if they live in washington dc or a few other
00:43:35.940
enclaves where they may be the only conservatives in what's otherwise a very blue zone uh they are um
00:43:42.760
susceptible to the assumptions that everyone around them is making and they're susceptible to
00:43:48.040
uh there's almost a domino effect where cowardice becomes contagious and people who lose their nerve
00:43:53.180
and say hey you know we can't win by being on the right we can't win by being populist or nationalist
00:43:57.840
uh when they when they switch and they decide to embrace uh you know the uh more uh globalist agenda
00:44:05.360
the uh sort of neocon agenda when they decide that they when they do this just out of sheer cowardice
00:44:10.840
uh it becomes infectious and a lot of others uh you know people around them start to say
00:44:15.140
you know what uh you know if this guy's lost heart maybe i am uh someone who shouldn't be so bold
00:44:20.360
either maybe i should also uh you know do the prudent thing and the safe thing and uh just go along with
00:44:25.820
the flow of globalism and the republican establishment and so forth so cowardice and uh you know this is
00:44:31.380
living in a bubble living in virtual reality that's one explanation the other explanation
00:44:35.540
unfortunately is that there are an awful lot of people who are engaged with the republican party
00:44:40.520
and even engaged with the conservative movement who are actually on the other side and they actually
00:44:44.780
they really are people who have uh you know the same philosophical outlook as most progressives
00:44:50.900
but they just want to do it a little more sanely than the progressives want to do it right
00:44:54.200
so uh yes to globalization yes to you know open borders but they want to do it a little more slowly
00:45:00.500
they want you know street crime to be a little lower and so basically um there was an old joke about uh
00:45:05.380
you know uh certain kinds of republicans being just the tax collectors for the welfare state
00:45:10.080
that was something that used to be said about bob dole and the bushes and whatnot well there's a sense
00:45:14.740
in which the same thing is true culturally where an awful lot of republicans and even a lot of
00:45:18.980
conservatives they're really just uh you know kind of slow motion uh left-wing radicals they're not
00:45:24.780
people who are actually trying to reverse course and go in a different direction they're not trying
00:45:29.080
to save you know the uh traditional america instead they want to march into the same kind of
00:45:34.380
progressive limitless you know uh trans everything future trans globalist transnational transgender
00:45:41.360
the whole thing but they just want to do it more slowly and prudently and uh you know kind of not
00:45:46.440
upset their immediate circumstances they're perfectly you know fine with living a little more
00:45:50.580
conservatively themselves but they really expect their grandchildren to be you know much farther to
00:45:54.620
the left and they're okay with that they're happy with that
00:45:56.820
in 16 we ran a uh anti-globalist uh you know nationalist uh populist uh campaign against what
00:46:06.280
the clinton apparatus was if you had a chance to sit down with uh president trump and said hey look
00:46:11.200
i'll give you some free advice of of how i think you ought to position this in 2024 what would you tell
00:46:15.720
him well first of all he needs to do uh what you were able to help him do in 2016 which is to
00:46:21.560
concretize things so it's one thing to talk about citizenship and the border and the and uh
00:46:26.800
immigration but you need something as concrete as the wall as an idea that's actually going to
00:46:31.780
galvanize voters and get them to say wait a minute this is a clear difference that you're going to get
00:46:36.140
if you vote for this guy and you're not going to have it if you don't vote for him so clear imagery
00:46:40.220
is one thing as far as the issues go the core uh issues that elected donald trump in 2016 are still
00:46:47.120
if anything more important now than they were even then so on immigration for example there are a lot
00:46:52.160
of squishes out there there are squishes who thought well you know all the all the left all the
00:46:56.380
media is saying that donald trump was this ogre on immigration and yes we think there should be a
00:47:01.140
little bit more immigration uh restriction but you know we want to see it done a little more softly and
00:47:05.640
a little more gently but it turns out that when you get someone like joe biden in office and joe biden
00:47:10.760
is of course a left-wing progressive but he's under political pressure to try to do something about
00:47:14.960
the border but it turns out that even the mildest things that someone like joe biden who's really a you
00:47:19.720
know a mass immigration supporter even the mild things that he does get uh joe biden denounced by his
00:47:25.540
own side by democrats and by progressives on twitter and elsewhere they say oh this guy's as
00:47:30.520
bad or maybe even worse than trump you've got kids in cages again you have everything happening once
00:47:35.140
more so i think a lot of voters who you know wanted to see the trump agenda to some extent but were
00:47:41.040
afraid of taking it all the way they're now looking at the fact that you know even the slightest things
00:47:45.860
that joe biden does are considered are denounced you know as just as extreme and just as you know
00:47:50.700
hostile to immigrants as anything that trump was doing and they're going to say well you know what i guess
00:47:55.240
you have to make a firm choice you have to either choose uh you know something that's trending in the
00:47:59.040
direction of open borders and you know huge mass immigration or you really have to take a trump
00:48:03.560
approach that's a hardline approach and try to you know uh really reduce certainly illegal immigration
00:48:08.680
but also uh you know turn down the faucet on legal immigration as well so i think that's a winning
00:48:13.300
issue for donald trump also foreign policy is if anything going to be even a stronger issue
00:48:17.980
for donald trump in 2024 than it was in 2016 or in 2020 in 2024 we see that the same formula that failed
00:48:25.900
us in afghanistan that basically prolonged a war for 20 years and then ended in national humiliation
00:48:31.900
for us this is the strategy that joe biden is deploying in ukraine we don't have an end game in ukraine
00:48:37.620
joe biden doesn't have any idea of what realistically can come about to restore peace in ukraine
00:48:42.380
i mean if you ask these people you know are you thinking that ukraine is going to retake crimea how
00:48:47.540
can you possibly believe that when you think ukraine is not even going to get very much
00:48:50.400
you know of the territory that they lost in the past year they're not going to get much of that back
00:48:54.540
from this counter-offensive they're going to launch supposedly in the next month or two here
00:48:58.260
well you just get a divide by zero answer when you ask you know the foreign policy establishment
00:49:03.100
that question they will not give you a straight answer about praying about crimea and crimea
00:49:07.860
obviously is central to this whole problem russia will never ever let crimea completely go out of
00:49:13.400
their hands because they need crimea for black sea access they need that for their fleet and this has
00:49:18.520
been a russian objective in foreign policy for centuries this is not about putin this is not about
00:49:23.480
putin's revanchism that may or may not be a real thing but certainly the russian interest in crimea
00:49:28.660
and in the black sea that is a permanent geo geo strategic and geographic interest of russia's that you
00:49:35.120
know you can't just get rid of that at the negotiating table so i think donald trump is in
00:49:39.120
a very strong position to point to the failures the uh you know sort of open-ended uh conflict that
00:49:44.460
he's got us into in ukraine the uh you know blank check that he's giving zelinski who's a very corrupt
00:49:49.320
guy and who knows where that money's going we saw with afghanistan we gave them you know and we gave
00:49:54.640
them trillions of dollars and we gave them endless amounts of american weapons what happened at the end of
00:49:59.400
the afghanistan war after 20 years those weapons wound up in the hands of the taliban i mean it's insane
00:50:04.480
and yet here we are repeating this i think if donald trump hammers that message home he's going
00:50:08.440
to do very well give us uh we got about two minutes if you can give if we're talking to trump tonight
00:50:15.060
this is the first time he's been it means shocking seeing he has not been on cnn during his entire
00:50:19.240
first term he's on tonight to reintroduce himself to a cnn audience what would you tell president trump
00:50:26.000
he should focus on tonight in this replatforming of him on cnn he should focus on those central themes of
00:50:33.580
his that defined him in 2016 and what he should not focus on are his immediate legal problems and of
00:50:38.440
course you know cnn and other elements of the media that's exactly what they want to talk about
00:50:42.580
and trump quite naturally wants to defend himself he wants to defend his honor he is quite right when
00:50:47.560
he says that you know oftentimes these attacks on trump are really a way of going after trump's
00:50:52.280
voters you know they're really going through him in order to get uh you know the voters behind him
00:50:56.360
be that as it may i think talking about and getting into the weeds of all these legal
00:51:00.400
difficulties uh that's something that will turn off a lot of republicans who just aren't you know
00:51:05.120
they don't want to make that the central issue of the 2024 campaign and there are you know some degree
00:51:10.220
of uh voters who are not yet aligned either way and really are kind of open as they look at the 2024
00:51:15.500
choice and uh you don't want it to be you know to force them to have to be voting on legal problems as
00:51:21.520
opposed to voting on what their own interests and their own neighborhoods are most concerned about
00:51:25.860
daniel uh it's very rare to meet someone with uh with uh wisdom and also the applied understanding
00:51:34.940
of applied politics um how do people get to you what's your social media how do they get to your
00:51:39.520
website how do they find out more about the modern age yeah they can find out more about modern age at
00:51:44.220
our website which is www.modernagejournal.com it's a quite a mouthful but modernagejournal.com
00:51:51.240
uh they can also uh follow the organization where i'm a vice president for some of our student
00:51:56.560
journalism activities and that is the intercollegiate studies institute or isi.org again that's isi.org
00:52:02.580
and next week we actually have a very important event coming up in washington dc with senator jd
00:52:07.940
vance and with the post-liberal political philosopher uh patrick denean and that's going to be on
00:52:13.200
wednesday may 17th at catholic university of america here in washington dc again if they go to isi.org
00:52:19.180
they can learn more about that event and hopefully we'll see uh many of the listeners uh you know
00:52:23.380
be able to attend they can also find me on twitter at torianarchist which is a curious label but it's
00:52:28.600
a fun one we're going to make sure everybody gets there by the way we'll we'll have you back on or
00:52:34.500
want to talk about that jd senator vance kicked off the show tonight at five o'clock uh and he is a huge
00:52:40.700
favorite of this audience and and daniel uh really uh honored to have you come on and share uh this
00:52:46.860
analysis a very important piece on american mind we'll make sure everybody gets to it so thank
00:52:51.240
you for taking the time tonight so i appreciate it thanks steve
00:52:54.240
okay i want to get we're going to make a big deal this thing at catholic university next week i want
00:53:01.260
everybody out there to see jd and daniel mccarthy uh very important okay stick around get up on twitter
00:53:07.780
get up on getter and see us we're going to have a live chat going tonight at eight o'clock i think it
00:53:13.320
will last an hour and a half now the town hall is going to last 90 minutes maybe a little uh wrap
00:53:17.940
up after that but we'll want everybody up there and we'll be back live here tomorrow 10 a.m uh the
00:53:24.320
shows today were quite intense i will commit to you that tomorrow shows will be just as intense there's
00:53:29.900
so much going i've never seen a news cycle like this eight o'clock tonight on getter if you're not
00:53:34.180
earning on getter reach out to mo or grace they'll tell you how it's so simple to get on you just got
00:53:39.720
download an app totally free make sure you're on there tonight we'll see you back on getter at
00:53:44.340
eight o'clock uh for the town hall up in new hampshire uh and we'll also see you back there
00:53:49.140
live tomorrow morning when you will be in the war room make sure you lace them up tight tomorrow see
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