Bannon's War Room - WarRoom Battleground EP 1010： The Crusades For Young Men Pt. 1

00:00:00.000 This is the primal scream of a dying regime.

00:00:07.700 Pray for our enemies, because we're going medieval on these people.

00:00:12.960 I got a free shot at all these networks lying about the people.

00:00:17.220 The people have had a belly full of it.

00:00:19.140 I know you don't like hearing that.

00:00:20.580 I know you try to do everything in the world to stop that,

00:00:22.320 but you're not going to stop it.

00:00:23.260 It's going to happen.

00:00:24.520 And where do people like that go to share the big lie?

00:00:27.920 Mega Media.

00:00:28.840 I wish in my soul, I wish that any of these people had a conscience.

00:00:34.700 Ask yourself, what is my task and what is my purpose?

00:00:38.460 If that answer is to save my country, this country will be saved.

00:00:44.880 War Room. Here's your host, Stephen K. Vann.

00:00:52.940 Okay, welcome to our six o'clock hour.

00:00:55.000 I've got a very special show tonight, one, because, you know, and going around the country

00:01:00.360 and being in Texas, Virginia, other places, and spending time, we'd had some specials

00:01:06.280 during our time in Texas, we would get together, particularly with some of the younger people

00:01:12.100 in our movement, in the MAGA and American First movement, and a couple of things I've

00:01:16.060 ascertained, number one, there's a real fascination out there with the period called the Crusades,

00:01:21.140 particularly among young people and specifically among young men but there's not a lot of knowledge

00:01:27.440 out there about the crusades so i decided to track down raymond ibrahim and raymond's over

00:01:33.820 in europe right now but to say hey let's do a couple of shows i want to do shows that

00:01:38.220 focus on the crusades and focus particularly the crusades um for kind of young men and and

00:01:45.840 particularly about those who fought in these uh in the crusades and also why they were called and

00:01:51.020 kind of the history of them. Raymond, you've done a trilogy of books that are, I think Sword and

00:01:57.400 Scimitar is the first, about the 1400-year war, and I mean real war, cultural, social, political,

00:02:04.760 economic, and kinetic, militarily, against Islam. You've then done the book of those who

00:02:14.940 represented the West, the heroes of the West in these various fights against you. So you take it

00:02:21.640 first generally and go through the whole movement and the battles. Then we go back to the personalities.

00:02:27.600 I think you have 10 or 11 personalities in this. Defenders of the West are just extraordinary. So

00:02:32.780 you tell the story again, but through the lives of these warriors, which is so motivating. And then

00:02:38.140 the last, probably my favorite part of the topic when it comes to crusades, you take the military

00:02:43.160 orders. The book is Two Swords for Christ, and you take the hospitalers of St. John's and the

00:02:50.460 Knights Templar that came out of the first crusade, and you tell their stories. And so just extraordinary

00:02:56.240 how on different angles you tell the story so people have a total comprehensive view. The first

00:03:02.860 thing I want to do is just give the background, because a lot of times, and you actually frame it

00:03:07.420 the correct way, people think, oh, the crusade, you came and say the word on so many Catholic

00:03:12.760 schools throughout the country you know after 9-11 they went and took crusaders off of their

00:03:17.620 their uh you know as their logos have been their mascots for decades and they said oh no no no

00:03:23.640 that's so nativist that's so racist that's xenophobic we gotta call ourselves the bumblebees

00:03:29.340 right not the crusaders and but because the story we we didn't understand our own history

00:03:36.060 in the elites in this country and particularly in the bush administration when he called he went to

00:03:40.400 the mosque. I think day three was as New York City, lower Manhattan is still smoldering.

00:03:46.520 The Pentagon is still smoldering. There's still a smoking hole up there in Pennsylvania. He goes

00:03:52.280 and says, oh, no, Islam is the religion of peace, which is the old hook, how they get the elites.

00:03:58.720 Now we've seen 25 years later, we have an active jihadist Marxist movement in this country that

00:04:04.300 politically is growing in strength every day. So give us the context that it just wasn't

00:04:10.500 knights in Normandy and French rural families and the aristocracy in these very European countries

00:04:17.720 just decided we're going to get together in March and go to Jerusalem. It was an invitation,

00:04:23.960 but it was an invitation because in context, the rise of Islam was really coming and choking off 1.00

00:04:29.340 the Holy Land. So first off, can you put us in context? What are the Crusades and how do they

00:04:34.020 really start? Sure, Steve, this is an excellent and complex, and as you pointed out, a very timely

00:04:41.380 topic. And it's a lot deeper and more relevant than most people can even begin to imagine,

00:04:46.640 including myself. The more I study, the more I connect the dots, the more I realize that there's

00:04:51.720 really a bigger story here that has been intentionally suppressed, actually. And so to

00:04:57.380 answer your, you know, your initial question about the Crusades. So, you know, I've already,

00:05:03.640 I've talked about this a lot, and I don't want to take too much time. But essentially,

00:05:07.140 one of the main problems, which you just touched on with the Crusades, is not only that they're

00:05:11.520 presented in a vacuum, which they are, but it's also in the worst possible vacuum. So like you

00:05:17.700 said, today, it's, you know, the word Crusade is such a bad word, you know, schools have to get

00:05:23.960 rid of it, mascots, and this sort of thing, the bumblebee example. And even George Bush, you're

00:05:29.980 right. You know, he made the whole Islamist peace thing. But even he got in trouble because he used 0.64

00:05:35.320 the word crusade at one point. And of course, he didn't mean military holy war, he just meant like

00:05:40.800 crusading a good endeavor, right? And even that he had to backtrack and apologize for, which again,

00:05:47.260 underscores just how loaded that word has become in a pejorative sense okay so the to fill the

00:05:54.060 vacuum and to give us some context before the first crusade which was called for in 1095 you

00:05:59.720 have literally centuries of muslim attacks on what was once the christian world and by the time of

00:06:06.320 the first crusade a lot of a huge chunk of that formerly christian territory is now islamic so 0.64

00:06:11.740 this would include all the older, more advanced, more Christian regions in the 7th century when

00:06:18.640 Islam came onto the scenes, on the scene, which would include all of North Africa, Egypt, all the

00:06:23.940 way to Morocco, and all of the Middle East, which is all the modern states that you can think of

00:06:28.740 today, basically, well, from Turkey, of course, Anatolia, all the way down south, Lebanon, Syria,

00:06:34.380 Iraq, Jordan, and modern-day Israel, Palestinian territories, and so on and so forth.

00:06:41.740 and a large part of Arabia, even northern Arabia. 0.51

00:06:45.400 So that all gets conquered in this massive jihad, which, again, here we go with the vacuum. 0.68

00:06:50.840 And Persia and Babylon and all the— 0.87

00:06:54.840 Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course.

00:06:55.560 The creme de la creme of Persia, I mean, ancient civilizations, Egypt, Babylon, Persia.

00:07:03.160 I mean, you're talking about some pretty big empires that had pretty organized religions, did they not?

00:07:08.400 Yes, yes, into the Indus Valley as well. And Persia had the Zoroastrian religion, of course. And they actually fell relatively early as well. They fell around the same time that Egypt and Syria did. And again, that's probably because they were closer to the Arabian homeland.

00:07:27.180 So, you know, the neighbors that were right there on the doorsteps were the first to get attacked and the first to get swallowed up.

00:07:34.820 But yes, usually what I'm talking about now is primarily because the jihad was so far reaching historically, you have to really focus on one aspect. 0.94

00:07:44.000 So I usually try to focus or I am at this point the Christian slash Western world.

00:07:49.160 But of course, yes, Persia, the Zoroastrianists, all the way into the Far East and into sub-Saharan Africa also through jihad. 0.95

00:07:57.100 And these are all diverse peoples with different civilizations and religions, all of whom got subsumed under Islam. 0.80

00:08:04.700 Okay, so that's basically the context of, if you fast forward now to the First Crusade, everyone in Europe, the educated classes, of course, the clerical classes, the popes, the nobles, 0.92

00:08:16.220 understood what had originally happened to the Christian world in North Africa and the Middle

00:08:21.800 East. So they understood that. And it comes out in their correspondences and letters. And when

00:08:26.180 they're speaking too, they often say things like when Egypt comes back to Christianity and things

00:08:32.040 of that sort, for example. So now we're coming a couple of decades before the first crusade and

00:08:38.760 you have another especially savage iteration of jihad under the Seljuk Turks. And they are 0.94

00:08:47.340 running amok in the Holy Land. They are committing much worse atrocities than had even occurred

00:08:52.720 before then under the various different Arab dynasties and sultanates, which themselves were

00:08:58.600 also pretty bad. But now it's at a new level. And the atrocities which we have recorded and 0.89

00:09:04.360 which were widely spoken about from the Pope, from Pope Urban to Peter the Hermit, to Robert

00:09:09.700 of Flanders, to, you know, Emperor Alexius and his daughter. So we have lots of records of what

00:09:15.500 was happening. And, you know, to call it horrific is, it doesn't even do it justice. I mean, the

00:09:20.940 things that are written down are, you know, stuff of nightmare, where, you know, people are being

00:09:25.520 skinned alive, their entrails are being pulled out, tied to a column, and they're whipped until

00:09:31.520 all their entrails are pulled out and fall down. For example, women being systematically raped on 0.98

00:09:37.160 top of altars, you know, anything you can imagine. And it also spilled over onto pilgrims, because

00:09:44.480 you still had European pilgrims traveling to the Holy Land during this time. It was understood that

00:09:49.140 was dangerous. That's part of the pilgrimage. You know, you're taking this, you're undertaking

00:09:53.700 this very dangerous journey on a pilgrimage to visit the holy sites and, you know, to engage in

00:10:01.380 adoration and possibly die while you're doing it so and that is exactly what was happening to them

00:10:05.960 and one of the more notable instances occurred in 1064 because it's widely attested where a large

00:10:11.780 german pilgrimage went down and they got attacked again by the turks and everyone was slaughtered

00:10:17.380 and they talk about a very uh attractive nun uh who was warned not to go and then and she was

00:10:23.020 gang raped to death and then at the end it says and those vile men did these sorts of things to

00:10:29.140 all the pilgrims they could ever reach. So this is the backdrop of the first crusade, which we

00:10:34.980 never, ever hear. We just hear that out of the blue, you know, I've quoted it before, probably

00:10:40.720 to you as well, John Esposito, Georgetown academic, as this memorable line where he basically says,

00:10:47.640 five centuries of peaceful coexistence between Christians and Muslims elapsed before an imperial

00:10:52.940 papal power play led to a series of so-called holy wars and centuries of distrust and dislike 0.86

00:10:59.580 basically from muslims who now have a grievance because of what the crusaders did so until now 0.72

00:11:05.160 in schools in colleges uh you literally have people and professors and books who teach that

00:11:11.940 that those centuries that i just told you were islam annexed conquered subjugated and destroyed

00:11:17.300 more than much more than half of christendom and as well all those other civilizations in persia 0.81

00:11:22.920 and so forth um this you have professors telling people that that was the highlight that was like

00:11:27.840 peaceful coexistence between christians and muslims until randomly pope urban and all these franks

00:11:34.940 decided just to go and ruin it all because because well and now so we have to fill in the vacuum why 0.92

00:11:40.500 well because they're greedy because they're racist because there is they're imperialists

00:11:45.320 because i suppose there is lamophobes uh at the risk of being anachronistic and and this is now 0.53

00:11:50.640 what's supplanted the truth so that hang on i want to go to s i'm going to go as a georgetown

00:11:56.280 alum i want to go to esposito specifically when they say peaceful coexistence and you look at i

00:12:01.340 want to remind the audience that since really uh i guess the um the first century right uh i guess

00:12:12.980 it's from 73 that really the jews have been driven out of to a large extent uh the holy land and

00:12:20.060 particularly Jerusalem, which was always kind of the crown jewel, at least in some parts, right?

00:12:26.360 And sometimes they're gone. And so it's really a Muslim-controlled entity. When you had 0.99

00:12:33.240 peaceful coexistence, if you did have peaceful coexistence, it's because the Christians 1.00

00:12:39.700 surrendered after these waves of jihad. There was some resistance put up, but the resistance 0.96

00:12:47.660 essentially collapsed i'm going to say pretty quickly but it was gone relatively quickly and 1.00

00:12:53.720 it was really submission which is part of the way islam rolls if you pay uh if you pay a duty or if 0.97

00:13:02.020 you pay a tax or if you either convert or just submit to their control you can live at least 0.99

00:13:08.280 somewhat peacefully they break out in in violence all the time but when esposito and this guy say

00:13:14.720 it is because the west was essentially the christian part of the west in that area was conquered

00:13:21.240 and in islam controlled it this is except for constantinople correct yes correct but if you and

00:13:30.100 i i read that book and you know it's very fuzzy i mean ultimately what you're saying is that what

00:13:35.080 esposito is saying is that yes islam conquered subjugated these uh populations and then they

00:13:41.340 became according to islamic doctrine what's called vimmies and vimmies are basically a protected

00:13:47.120 class usually jews or christians who by paying tribute uh do not get killed but they may

00:13:53.600 essentially live as at best second class citizens so it's openly understood they're being discriminated

00:13:58.420 against yes and that's something that they accept so the peaceful coexistence only because they're

00:14:04.700 not fighting back and when they fight back exactly that's right and or not even fighting back because

00:14:09.760 because they're not even asking for equality that's the whole point they know their place

00:14:15.180 as second class citizens it's almost like you know pre-civil rights movement america 0.95

00:14:20.520 you know 1800s okay you can be black and you know i won't kill you but as long as you know 0.86

00:14:25.560 your place kind of thing that mentality the the split in the roman empire between constantinople 0.97

00:14:31.520 in in in rome and constantinople uh as um as the new rome they weren't particularly close

00:14:39.340 What did it take to actually have Constantinople reach out to Rome and reach out to the Pope and reach out to the Western Christendom in the church and really the noble families, the nobility and the aristocracy in Western Christendom to say, hey, look, we've got to put the flag up here.

00:14:58.160 This is a problem, and we need your support.

00:15:01.400 We need military assistance.

00:15:03.140 What caused that?

00:15:04.120 Because that was not an easy move for them to do, given how proud they were.

00:15:07.500 and quite frankly, some of the disdain they had for the older part of the Roman Empire.

00:15:14.960 Yeah, no, that's correct. You know, especially, think about it, the First Crusade's only about

00:15:20.700 40 years right after the first schism, around 1054. So that, again, itself really highlights

00:15:27.540 the fact that, you're right, he wouldn't have taken that extreme step and swallowed his pride,

00:15:32.420 the Byzantine emperor had it not been such a dire situation. And if you look at a map,

00:15:37.980 you have to recall Asia Minor, what we call today Turkey, was right before this, you know,

00:15:43.120 50 years before this, it was still primarily Christian, Armenians, Greeks, and different

00:15:49.320 groups. And then the Western part was primarily under Byzantine authority. And then the Turks

00:15:55.720 come out of the East, and then they start causing, you know, havoc. I just recently just again, 1.00

00:16:00.360 put this in context, you know, the Armenian genocide, the remembrance date was, I think,

00:16:05.080 April 24th. So as usual, I did a little research and writing about it. And, you know, you start

00:16:10.660 realizing that actually the genocide, which most people, the dates usually is 1915 and 16th during

00:16:16.640 World War I. But if you really understand it, the genocide by the hands of Turks, Muslim Turks,

00:16:22.520 against Christian Armenians in that region goes back over a thousand years ago. It goes to

00:16:27.500 literally several decades before the events that we're describing in the first crusade because it 0.93

00:16:32.380 was then when the when the turks really rushed in and the you know they came from the east so who's

00:16:36.840 in the east of anatoly it's the armenians and it was greater armenia was a much larger region at

00:16:41.980 the time and the the sources of again i mean i was telling you about the horrific atrocities by the

00:16:47.700 turks it's especially against these armenians and they literally talk about tens if not hundreds of

00:16:52.400 thousands of christians and these are primary sources eyewitness accounts being just butchered

00:16:57.340 in the most sadistic way thousands of churches being ritually desecrated instead of flame

00:17:02.480 crosses being broken and burned and statues being decapitated the whole nine yards okay 0.99

00:17:08.200 so that's what these seljuk turks were doing and they kept going further further westward into 0.92

00:17:14.180 asia minor until they were right there on the straits right vis-a-vis constantinople so that's

00:17:20.180 how dire was and that's give me a second hang on it just wasn't individual bad guys i want to make

00:17:25.600 sure people understand this. This was just not individual bad hombres going into a village or

00:17:30.380 going to church. You used the term ritual desecration because it was a weapon and

00:17:37.880 instrument of their conquering. Give me a minute on ritual desecration. What did they do?

00:17:44.340 Oh, okay. Think about what ISIS and these groups do, which is not just attack, kill infidels,

00:17:50.380 but make sure that they go and literally ritually desecrate, let's say, a church and 0.95

00:17:55.040 break the crosses and burn it and gouge the eyes of icons and behead statues, which happens all 0.63

00:18:01.720 the time in Europe nowadays. So we actually have the same pattern being shown, which the point

00:18:08.340 ultimately is, you know, again, if you read a typical secondary modern history, it'll tell you,

00:18:14.600 it'll just say, yes, the Turks ran in and engaged in violets and so forth, but they won't underscore

00:18:20.020 this point. They'll miss it. Maybe they won't get, they won't connect the dots and realize, okay,

00:18:24.480 this wasn't just one group attacking another group, medieval warfare. This was one group that

00:18:29.840 was propelled by an ideological animus, okay, which is what we call today jihadism. And that

00:18:36.120 definitely comes out in the sources, both of them, the Muslim and the Christian sources. 0.99

00:18:39.960 The Muslim sources boast about it, okay? I'm thinking now of, they're talking about destroying 1.00

00:18:45.080 this major cathedral in Armenia and how they sent this large crucifix to be as a trophy to the

00:18:51.540 caliph in baghdad okay and you see that still happening uh today i've seen so many videos of

00:18:57.140 isis types including right now what's happening to armenian churches at the hands of azarabijan

00:19:02.240 where they're literally erasing them from their ancient territories that were ceded

00:19:05.820 recently from the the 2020 war so yes bottom line is definite ideological animus was infused

00:19:14.220 in these uh jihadist attacks though they won't come out in typical history books it'll just seem

00:19:19.080 like one group attacking another. What was the call for help? What was the call for help? Where

00:19:24.120 did it go? And what was the response in the Christian West? So the emperor and others,

00:19:30.580 of course, reached out to the pope himself. But we also have letters from the emperor to people

00:19:35.300 like Count Robert of Flanders, who was a friend of his, because, you know, despite what we always

00:19:41.060 hear, this sort of ideological divide between Eastern Orthodox and Western Catholics wasn't as

00:19:46.900 stringent or real as we like to think sometimes, and there was lots of cooperation that went on,

00:19:52.520 and to your average layperson, certainly they didn't even understand, just like they don't

00:19:56.660 today, the schismatic fights and what they were about. But so we have these letters and

00:20:02.780 correspondences of basically calling for help, calling for aid, saying, you know, this is

00:20:07.700 happening to fellow Christians. And again, the idea that you're asking me, so what caused them

00:20:13.560 to respond. And I think it's because learning that such atrocious cruelty was being inflicted

00:20:20.780 on fellow Christians. And see, that's the point, you know, the Franks and the West are Catholics, 1.00

00:20:25.640 whereas the East, the Byzantines, Orthodox, Armenians are Orthodox. And that didn't add

00:20:30.960 in any way, shape or form that never comes up. You never hear, you know, right before the first

00:20:35.640 crusade that there were some debates or even the Pope himself was saying, yeah, well, they're

00:20:39.920 heretics, they have it coming to them. Okay, that never appears. And again, it just shows you that

00:20:45.100 in reality, despite these supposed schisms, which were real, the average Christian, even the Pope,

00:20:52.100 you know, why did Pope Urban II comply? And he didn't require anything. He didn't tell

00:20:57.040 the Emperor Alexius, oh, now you have to agree to papal authority or anything of that sort. Okay.

00:21:02.620 So the reason I believe they were propelled to it is just shocked at the horror that what was

00:21:08.260 being inflicted on fellow Christians, shocked at what was happening to Christian pilgrims,

00:21:13.320 shocked at what was happening to the Holy Land, the Holy Sepulchre, the Church of the Resurrection,

00:21:18.120 which had been destroyed before and was being attacked periodically, even after it was rebuilt,

00:21:24.720 lots of sacrilege. So it was actually what propelled them. And historians now know this.

00:21:30.160 Again, this is one of those stories that was, you know, much fabricated, the motivation,

00:21:35.620 the cause you can still grab history books by august voices like sir stephen runciman who's

00:21:42.920 a great writer and uh you know he'll give you the idea that he's that basically yes they responded

00:21:48.260 because it was an economic opportunity and uh you know it was an adventure and there was all

00:21:53.220 these second sons who had no uh nothing to inherit and so they had to go there now historians after

00:22:00.540 careful research decades worth going through vast archives and correspondences and letters

00:22:06.040 it's become abundantly clear uh unequivocally so that these men were first and foremost propelled

00:22:12.140 by a sincere pious uh desire to help their fellow man okay it was actually love okay altruism the

00:22:20.780 the muscular variety where jesus himself says no greater commandment than to love god with all your

00:22:26.220 heart and to love your fellow men. So they were loving God during the crusades because, I'm sorry?

00:22:31.640 The Pope specifically focused, actually went and gave this amazing, I guess, sermon in the fields.

00:22:41.580 But there's definitely, if you look at the first crusades and look where he went, there's a focus

00:22:47.660 on the Normans in Normandy. We call them the Franks and they were called the Franks, but

00:22:52.040 the normans why are the normans uh why are they kind of the center of gravity i would say for the

00:23:00.300 first crusade and when the pope had looked at the whole universe of what he was going to do

00:23:03.900 he focused on nor the normans and normandy yeah well the normans are they're they're characters

00:23:11.720 um so as we know the normans are the descendants of the north men the vikings who eventually i

00:23:18.080 think with some sort of treaty with one of charlemagne's descendants settled in normandy

00:23:22.680 in northern france essentially and were christian and but i think they kept something of the viking

00:23:28.700 spirit still alive in them and they were a very um you know bellicose lot but they were also they

00:23:34.900 were still amongst them you had very christian uh piety so they made for a very uh they they

00:23:40.780 they were the ideal crusader because they were adventurous they were militant they were religious

00:23:46.080 and pious um and they seem to have been giants a lot of them are really large and and the way

00:23:51.880 they're described in the sources um among them bohemund uh who ends up he's in the he's one of

00:23:57.480 the leaders of the first crusade and he ends up becoming essentially the prince of antioch after

00:24:02.460 it was conquered in 1098 and anna the daughter of the aforementioned byzantine emperor describes him

00:24:09.240 and you can just tell she's awed by him she's just you know there was a he's just this giant

00:24:14.340 and just kind of like he terrified her just looking at him.

00:24:17.420 So I imagine there was a lot of that going on

00:24:19.940 that these Eastern peoples and the Byzantines had not seen.

00:24:23.100 But it is true that amongst the Franks generally,

00:24:27.020 that's the word even in the Arabic today,

00:24:29.060 when they talk about crusaders or today in Arabic,

00:24:31.540 if you want to say someone's European or Europeanized or looks European,

00:24:35.480 you say Frank, El Frange, because that's in the Arabic mentality,

00:24:40.080 goes all the way back to the Crusades. 0.86

00:24:41.740 That's what a white person is or a Christian is. 0.81

00:24:44.340 And generally that was the Francia. Okay. But the North, of course, you have the Norman who were different in their own slight culture. But of course, as time goes by, they get, they do become conflated with the Franks to some degree. But yeah, they, again, they do stand out. They'd stand out for their, their martial prowess. That's for sure. As do other, other Franks. 0.73

00:25:07.740 We're going to get to that in a second.

00:25:09.600 We're going to get to the call and all that.

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00:25:54.300 activity. Go today, talk to Philip Patrick and the team, particularly with what's going on in

00:25:58.540 the Middle East. Hey, isn't it wild? We're here talking about the first crusade that went in the

00:26:03.480 And guess what? We're talking as President Trump's heading to Beijing, heading to China about the Middle East War and what part Beijing is going to have in sorting this out, this great powers talk President Trump's going to have.

00:26:19.600 Brother Ibrahim, Ibrahim is with me, the author of a trilogy of amazing books about the Crusades.

00:26:25.900 We're talking now about the Crusades for young men.

00:26:28.740 And we're going to pivot now to the first crusade, a couple of the big personalities and what happened with it.

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00:31:24.300 Stephen K. Band. Raymond Ibrahim is with me, the author of just three incredible books. So well,

00:31:33.400 they read like novels. And if you want to give young people in your life, and particularly young

00:31:39.080 men in your life, I strongly recommend you always start with Volume 2, Defenders of the West,

00:31:44.760 these vignettes about these great warriors. Every young man you have will be jacked up

00:31:50.940 after they read it. The whole trilogy you got to read, starting with the overall war,

00:31:56.220 a sword and scimitar, and then you've got Defenders of the West, and then you've got

00:32:00.560 Two Swords of Christ about the military orders, the monks of the Knights Templar

00:32:06.640 and the Hospitallers, St. John. Just enormous, incredible stories. The Normans, and the reason

00:32:13.720 is this is a multi-part series we're going to do, Raymond. The Normans are so important for the

00:32:19.620 whole story. They had just, and this is the Normans, just to keep it simple, are really the Vikings

00:32:25.380 mixed in with French gals, right? It's, they came down and went up the rivers and into France,

00:32:33.440 and they became a military powerhouse. They eventually took Malta and Sicily, and they had

00:32:39.480 a whole empire based on their military prowess. They took England, in 1066 at Hastings, they

00:32:47.060 redefeated the Saxons, and then had a role. And of course, if you read, you know, if you're a kid

00:32:52.840 raised on Robin Hood, the Normans were considered not the good guys, right? They were kind of

00:32:57.420 hammers. They had a certain Viking way about them. But that's why the Pope particularly knew that,

00:33:03.760 hey, the odds are so long that I'm going to form a Christian army in the West and march that army 0.94

00:33:12.580 or take it by sale to one of the most inhospitable places in the world, the Middle East, 0.99

00:33:18.000 and I'm going to take on a group that has essentially conquered most of the known world in their area in five or six hundred years. 0.96

00:33:28.900 That would be the Islamic forces, now with the Seljuk Turks, but they had already conquered so much coming out of Saudi Arabia. 0.90

00:33:36.280 The odds are that are a billion to one. 1.00

00:33:38.600 I guess I'm going to go find the baddest hombres I can find, and that's the Normans. 1.00

00:33:44.000 Particularly, you had this system where the lead son gets everything. 0.57

00:33:48.400 You've got these other lads who are not in order of going to control anything, and they're a little rowdy.

00:33:56.480 And so the culture has a problem with the male martial attitudes of these people.

00:34:03.520 Why does the pope decide to go there, and what's the message he gives in that field?

00:34:08.600 no just i'm going to answer that but before i do because you brought up a very interesting point

00:34:13.120 about the normans and the battle of hastings and you know they did something else actually these

00:34:18.060 normans uh a little around the time of the battle of hastings and before the first crusade which is

00:34:22.300 they conquered islamic sicily uh reconquered it and that was also another pivotal event that is

00:34:27.880 a sort of precursor uh to the first crusade and it happened again my dates are a little fuzzy but

00:34:33.160 I want to say 1060s or maybe 1070s, where they go in and they conquer from the Muslims, the Arabs, the Saracens at the time.

00:34:42.560 So that may as well have been one of the reasons that someone like Pope Urban II did target them because they already had that experience. 1.00

00:34:50.640 They've proven their mettle against the Muslims and were successful. 0.96

00:34:54.660 They were proving it in England as well against the Saxons. 0.95

00:34:57.220 So definitely he saw them as the creme de la creme of martial violence.

00:35:03.540 As to your other question, your main question, this is also the time of the truce of God and the peace of God. 0.58

00:35:11.160 And the church is trying to basically tame these men, the Normans, the Franks in general, from fighting amongst each other.

00:35:19.920 And this is why part of the message of Pope Urban and other ecclesiastical authorities right around the First Crusade was, you know, okay, you have this violence, this violent impulse.

00:35:32.740 Well, let's marshal it and use it for a good cause in defense of the widow, of the orphan, of the poor pilgrim who's traveling.

00:35:40.300 Why fight the actual enemies of Christ, not your fellow brethren?

00:35:44.400 And I think that very much resonated with them because it's true. 0.99

00:35:47.460 It makes sense, obviously.

00:35:48.580 um and this is you see this now as a major shift uh the first crusade whereby you know knights and

00:35:55.300 these landed barons and normans are who normally fight with each other um because they have a

00:36:00.800 proclivity for that sort of thing now start uh gearing it towards a much more noble cause which

00:36:06.420 is fighting uh again in keeping with christ's commandment for their fellow man and for god

00:36:11.520 himself uh by liberating the holy land so i think that is definitely one of the reasons it resonated

00:36:16.660 with these particular kinds of men. And he sent emissary now to preach that gospel,

00:36:22.900 essentially, that we have to recruit there. But it's very specific. You can walk us through it,

00:36:28.420 but they were actually calling for the organization of a Christian army to essentially go on a crusade,

00:36:35.380 a pilgrimage, to the Middle East and take back not simply the Holy Land, but to take back

00:36:41.700 Jerusalem as the great poem. I think it's from Tasso in the Middle Ages. Jerusalem delivered, sir.

00:36:50.040 And this, you know, here we really come to one of the very first obvious points that most

00:36:55.500 people don't notice. Most historians don't mention the people who will tell you that the

00:36:59.240 crusades were waged for cynical reasons. It was about second sons trying to get land and this

00:37:03.920 sort of thing. If that was the case, you know, what they're doing, these people with this

00:37:08.420 interpretation is they're completely missing the extreme labor that went on that went hand in hand

00:37:13.840 with crusading so first of all a lot of these men who were landed and uh were rich and godfrey of

00:37:20.560 bouillon raymond of toulouse who were captains of the first crusade they actually mortgaged their

00:37:25.120 land and uh some of them were in debt just to raise money so they can go crusading and they

00:37:30.440 already had land they lost their titles they gave it up they um just to go and fight in the holy

00:37:35.220 one number two you know what why can't they if you want to be cynical why don't you just attack

00:37:40.500 your neighbor like they had been doing why travel thousands of miles on horseback or on foot for the

00:37:46.220 average pilgrim through dangerous enemy hostile enemy territory where most crusaders and the

00:37:52.860 people who went on the first crusade about 70 percent of them either died or actually gave up

00:37:57.500 and went home just from the actual from the journey itself because of the starvation of the

00:38:03.000 disease, lack of water. When you hear about these stories about, you know, crusaders turning to

00:38:08.340 cannibalism, it's because of that, because of extreme duress, where they were in positions

00:38:13.260 of starvation, and they would, you know, eat corpses. Muslims had done the same as well, 0.99

00:38:17.900 for example, during the siege of Constantinople in 717. But so my point is, there's a lot of

00:38:24.460 easier ways to have gone about it than doing this. And also another very obvious difference between

00:38:30.120 the Crusaders and the Muslims, which really highlights the idealism or the idealistic 0.96

00:38:36.660 nature of Crusaders. That is to say that they weren't out just to conquer. They were out

00:38:40.880 specifically out to reconquer the Holy Land itself. And that's not what Muslims ever did. 1.00

00:38:46.420 What Muslims always did is right from their first base, beginning in Arabia, they attacked 1.00

00:38:51.520 their immediate neighbors, Egypt, Syria, Iran, Persia. And then once they consolidated those 1.00

00:38:57.220 areas then they attacked the next region so from egypt they would attack libya and so forth and

00:39:02.100 that's the smart way to do it of course because you have your reserves right there you're not

00:39:06.380 thrown in the middle of enemy enemy territory that's why it was much more successful and

00:39:10.880 pragmatic the islamic conquest because it wasn't idealistic it was just who's the easiest target 0.92

00:39:15.720 oh it's the guy right next to me i'm gonna attack him the crusaders didn't do that they weren't out 0.68

00:39:20.460 to conquer anyone they were out to liberate the very important piece of holy land to them uh

00:39:26.400 because that's where christ walked so that's where he was crucified resurrected um and that sort of

00:39:31.960 thing so so it was very idealistic they threw themselves in the lines then getting there

00:39:36.360 itself was a horrific journey that most of them died from and they lost so much money so ultimately

00:39:43.160 what we're saying here is that for the first crusade definitely and most of the other ones

00:39:48.140 as well too but definitely because we're talking about the first crusade the number one reason was

00:39:52.400 sincere piety okay sincere piety let's i want to talk i'm going to drill down a second because i

00:39:57.960 think this is a good lesson for young men these uh men were hard they were hard men these guys

00:40:05.600 were fighters they were warriors like you said the normans had already conquered sicily they had

00:40:09.780 um taken at hastings uh beaten the saxons who were also from viking blood so there was these

00:40:17.560 they're taking on the toughest, and they're beating them. And other people associated

00:40:23.300 with the Normans. That's not simply the Normans. These men were also, because in the medieval,

00:40:28.520 in the Middle Ages worldview, they were also deeply Christian, right? But they had faults.

00:40:35.540 They knew they had sinned. Part of this, because indulgences later got so out of control,

00:40:42.940 it was one of the reasons that the reform of the church got traction from Luther and others

00:40:49.540 about these indulgences. Was it not something that the church said that if you go on this crusade

00:40:55.920 and you're there and you go all in on trying to take back the Holy Land, and particularly Jerusalem,

00:41:02.780 that you will get a special indulgence, you will get saved, and these guys in their own hearts,

00:41:08.100 knowing that they were devout Christians, but not perfect people, that this kind of combined

00:41:13.460 two things saying, hey, look, with all the problems I'm going to have, if I sign up for this, 0.59

00:41:19.040 I got a path to eternal life. Yeah, a lot of that is correct, but I would caution people to keep in

00:41:29.740 mind that this has to be understood through a Catholic paradigm, and it wasn't about salvation.

00:41:34.160 It was about avoiding purgatory or lessening it in as much as they could.

00:41:41.540 And this is actually one of the reasons people try to attack the Crusades, because they make it sound as, oh, the Pope was selling salvation.

00:41:49.960 Well, he wasn't.

00:41:50.600 Actually, the idea of salvation was still that it was through Christ, through baptism, through grace, and so forth.

00:41:57.120 But because of the Catholic notion of purgatory, unless you lived an absolutely sinless life, you would still have to go there, which was extreme suffering after this life.

00:42:07.220 It was temporal.

00:42:08.160 It was temporary.

00:42:08.980 But it just shows you that to these people, they took it seriously, and they were trying as much as they could to avoid that long suffering which they knew.

00:42:16.680 And lessening the suffering in purgatory, which obviously came – purgatory became a big issue in the Reformation.

00:42:22.800 But in the purgatory, they're making the direct connection that your profession of combat arms can lessen your time in purgatory.

00:42:32.820 That's a different pitch.

00:42:34.400 That's a pitch that people hadn't heard before.

00:42:37.380 When you read the history, they go, hang on for a second.

00:42:40.420 Let me get this right.

00:42:41.300 I'm a warrior.

00:42:42.700 I'm basically a professional, right?

00:42:45.540 Right. Because everybody there was kind of they were advanced amateurs or or professionals that in the in the profession of combat arms, I can actually lessen my time in purgatory and get to heaven quicker. Correct.

00:43:00.120 Yes. And the flip side of that is because they were armed warriors, they knew they were going to go to purgatory because engaging in so much violence and bloodshed, much of which, of course, was not just, you know, so they were trying to use their weakness, which was making them spend a lot of time in purgatory, to help them get out of spending so much time in purgatory by instead of engaging in unrighteous violence, engaging in just warfare.

00:43:28.120 Just give me a couple of examples.

00:43:29.840 We'll do this in the second episode in more detail as we talk about the process of the First Crusade.

00:43:34.740 But just give me a couple of the personalities that jump off the page at you that young men are fascinated by the Crusades,

00:43:41.080 but who are some of the big personalities you would like people to focus on, particularly in your book, Defenders Against the West?

00:43:50.640 yeah definitely the first one because i you know in my in in the privacy of my own mind i had to

00:43:56.820 determine who were the most impressive and chapter one of that book defenders of the west is dedicated

00:44:01.360 to godfrey of bouillon duke godfrey um and he is really paradigmatic of what we're talking about

00:44:08.080 very idealistic very impressive he was landed he was the duke of lorraine um he was he was uh he

00:44:15.500 wasn't the oldest son, but he became Duke through his uncle actually favored him for whatever reason

00:44:21.500 and made him his heir. And despite that, he sold everything, mortgaged everything, raised whatever

00:44:29.380 money he could, raised an army, and went on to the First Crusade. Very pious according to the sources,

00:44:35.480 including contemporary sources. And again, this is the irony. He's one of the men that when I was

00:44:40.280 reading, I mentioned Sir Stephen Runciman, and Runciman uses him as an example of a naive leader.

00:44:47.840 He should have never been a leader. He liked to listen to monks and engage in theological debates,

00:44:53.460 and Runciman just completely condemns that as so silly, as opposed to his brother, Baldwin,

00:45:00.440 who he presents as being more politically adroit and whatnot. But when you read the sources,

00:45:05.460 what you get is a humble man a pious man a strong man uh you know he we i have i quote how he was

00:45:13.800 raised him and his brother by their mother and it's very typical for knights you know very from

00:45:18.500 age from birth to about seven it was a very this is when they learn about god and religion and if

00:45:24.120 they're going to learn any letters it would be around that time and then from seven to about 14

00:45:28.520 they would be you know given to some uh family relative almost like a mentorship where they start

00:45:35.160 learning all sorts of things including etiquette but also horse riding and um and discipline okay

00:45:42.980 and doing duties and then from about 14 on this is when they're really you can see them as squires

00:45:48.880 and they're engaged in full-on combat warfare not exactly what kids do today you know with

00:45:54.660 their game boys and video and video games but uh so they would be engaged in that sort of thing

00:45:59.280 very edifying very fulfilling until about 21 when they would were knighted knighted essentially and

00:46:04.740 this is the same story for Godfrey, but we also learned that through his youth, he was just seen

00:46:10.140 as an immensely stalwart warrior, according, they'll say legend, but according to the sources,

00:46:16.380 multiple sources, with one sword stroke, he split a Turk vertically, okay, and one part,

00:46:23.140 a Turk on a horse, and one part slipped off, and the other part dangled on the horse,

00:46:28.160 and, you know, all the Muslims and the Turks freaked out because it ran back 0.53

00:46:31.500 into Antioch, looking like that.

00:46:34.500 So he fought a bear.

00:46:36.860 Again, these are true stories.

00:46:38.760 Instead of naive, if the military orders,

00:46:42.440 if the Templars had been around

00:46:43.840 or the Knights of St. John had been around,

00:46:46.000 he would have been the type of,

00:46:48.160 he was almost monastic.

00:46:49.360 I mean, the reason Runciman goes after him is naivete.

00:46:52.160 He's immensely spiritual.

00:46:53.800 He's almost like a Zen warrior, right?

00:46:55.500 He's a very, very deeply esoteric Christianity too.

00:46:59.440 He's very much more the Orthodox Church than the Western Church, not so much just about the ceremonies and the customs.

00:47:06.380 He's really taking in the spiritual nature of the Desert Fathers, the spiritual nature of the West.

00:47:12.780 He's an immensely spiritual crusader, right, or knight at the time.

00:47:17.960 I would completely agree with those characterizations.

00:47:20.100 I think they're very spot on.

00:47:21.280 And he was, I think, even when I wrote Two Swords of Christ, I mentioned him as a sort of predecessor of the Knights of the Temple.

00:47:29.880 He's the kind of guy they were modeling because he also was monastic, that he never got married because he was constantly involved in warfare.

00:47:37.220 Due to his piety, he was elected to become the first king of Jerusalem.

00:47:40.700 And he refused it on condition that he not be called king and instead be called defender or protector of the Holy Sepulcher.

00:47:48.340 and he famously said, I will not wear a crown of gold

00:47:51.880 where my savior wore a crown of thorns.

00:47:54.460 Okay, so that's the kind of man that he was

00:47:56.940 and he continued fighting.

00:47:58.520 And when he was elected, people think this is,

00:48:00.540 again, it's funny because we were told,

00:48:02.560 oh, they went to the Holy Land to conquer land.

00:48:05.000 This was about land.

00:48:06.280 Actually, a lot of them, once they had liberated it,

00:48:08.780 all they wanted to do was go back home, including Godfrey.

00:48:11.100 So it was seen as a sacrifice to stay there.

00:48:14.180 Instead of going back home to your loved ones

00:48:16.200 and safety and your lands,

00:48:17.700 You stay in this desert with hostile people all around you in constant warfare.

00:48:23.180 Not exactly a great deal or a great bargain, but he chose it, he opted for it, and he died. 1.00

00:48:28.920 He only lasted for a year before he finally died without giving too much away, but there's good reason to believe he was poisoned by a Muslim. 1.00

00:48:37.420 But that's the paradigmatic type of character. 1.00

00:48:40.960 I want to get into all that real quickly.

00:48:43.240 Let's go through all three books.

00:48:44.500 I want people, for this exercise, the second book is probably the best, but the other two, and I tell people, get all three of them, because you get the overview of the war, and you can see so many relevant kind of facts of the day.

00:48:58.800 The second volume right there, the Defenders of the West, and the third volume about the two military orders, the Knights of St. John and the Knights of Templar.

00:49:06.020 Just give me a minute or so on all three of the books, your research, the years writing it, your great love of this time and this tale.

00:49:17.000 Thanks, Steve, for the opportunity and just to follow up on what you said.

00:49:20.020 The three books can be read in any order.

00:49:21.980 And so for someone to grab Defenders of the West, if they really want heroism, inspiring stories, which are based on, of course, the long story, the long war between Islam and the West.

00:49:32.520 yeah you're right defenders of the west fills in the spot the first but if you want to read them

00:49:37.380 all and if you want to really get it in the first book would give you the most general introduction

00:49:41.880 it's assumed that you know the reader doesn't know much so the first book sword and scimitar

00:49:46.120 really covers the long history of conflict between islam and the west from the rise of islam in the

00:49:51.260 7th century up until america's first war with islam first war as a nation which is the first

00:49:56.140 Barbary Wars. So that'll give you the lay of the land. Defenders of the West, it's the same 0.71

00:50:03.480 terrain, but told through the eyes and lives of these various defenders that I highlight. Each

00:50:09.040 chapter is basically a mini biography. And the Two Swords of Christ is like both of them. It's

00:50:14.640 really, this is the one that's focused on the Crusades. Because even though I wasn't writing

00:50:18.540 about the Crusades, I was writing about the military orders, and they are inseparable from

00:50:22.540 the Crusades. So really the book, if you wanted the deepest dive of the Crusades, it's the Two

00:50:27.140 Swords of Christ, but it also gets into the religious theology behind it, the rationale,

00:50:34.640 the Christian rationale of warfare that we're talking about, because so many people don't know,

00:50:39.140 how can you be a Christian and fight back? Well, you're going to see that these guys were as pious

00:50:43.540 as they come, kind of like what I just, even more so from Godfrey, what I described, because they

00:50:48.800 literally took vows of monks but they were just the most you know like berserk on the field in

00:50:55.740 warfare so how did they rationalize it so i definitely get into the theology of of of that

00:51:00.620 but it even goes way beyond the first crusade because at least one of those orders outlasted

00:51:05.620 the first crusade the crusades and actually still alive till this day the knights of saint john of

00:51:10.900 course um so yeah thanks for the opportunity i got into this field because you could just see

00:51:15.860 how appealing this sort of thing is. And at one point, we're going to talk about why it's so

00:51:19.580 appealing and why it's being suppressed. Social media, where do people go? We go to Amazon to

00:51:26.640 get the books. Where do they go to social media and your website? My website is RaymondDeBrahim.com

00:51:32.540 and you'll see links to social media and so forth. And definitely check out my YouTube channel just

00:51:37.380 by my name. You can also type in Holy War because that's what I deal with. But my website should

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Bannon's War Room - May 14, 2026

WarRoom Battleground EP 1010： The Crusades For Young Men Pt. 1

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