00:00:28.800I wish in my soul, I wish that any of these people had a conscience.
00:00:34.680Ask yourself, what is my task and what is my purpose?
00:00:38.440If that answer is to save my country, this country will be saved.
00:00:44.760War Room. Here's your host, Stephen K. Vann.
00:00:48.040Wednesday 27th of May, Anno Domini, 2026.
00:01:00.840Harnwell here at the helm on Steve Bannon's War Room.
00:01:03.780Interesting show today, big event in the life of the Catholic Church and Catholics,
00:01:10.980which is the publication of an encyclical.
00:01:14.320We'll be discussing this in the first 25 minutes with our resident expert on all things Catholic, Frank Walker, editor-in-chief of Canon 212.
00:01:29.160Frank, I'm looking at this encyclical here in front of me, Magnifica Humanitas.
00:01:39.520Firstly, there are so many different reflections to make on this. Firstly, it's my impression that this has already attracted far more both interest pre-publication and post-publication than Francis' encyclicals.
00:02:02.720and certainly the last one, which sort of sank without a trace,
00:02:11.460But I sort of think this has got more engagement, I think,
00:02:15.980with the secular news cycle, though I think largely for the wrong reasons.
00:02:21.720I'll ask you to talk me through the encyclical,
00:02:24.380what you think the takeaways are from this.
00:02:27.720And then let's just sort of give an analysis between the two of us on what our personal takes are to this encyclical.
00:02:36.880But what's it about? Pope Leo published it on the 135th anniversary of Rerum Novarum,
00:02:47.520which was the start of the Catholic Church's foray into Catholic social teaching.
00:02:53.320It's the foundation stone, really, which isn't, you know, I sort of, with hindsight, I think it was even near the 13th introduction here was, with hindsight, I say, was ill-advised because it set off so much now in the Catholic Church that we're fighting against every day.
00:03:17.260But it wasn't, Rerum Navarum wasn't the, it's not the progressive panacea that the liberals and progressives have been quite successful in rewriting popular opinion for it to be.
00:03:34.000It's quite strong on something which is extremely important to me in terms of politics, which is property rights sort of flowing out from that.
00:03:42.700um and yet every time we get a major anniversary frank walker in the life of the church to actually
00:03:50.960look and analyze apart from perhaps centesimus annus of john paul ii but every time there's a
00:03:59.500keystone anniversary in the life of the church where we could go back and pluck out some of the
00:04:05.700things from rerum novarum which were interesting they'd drop another encyclical on top of it to
00:04:10.600to muddy the waters kick sand over it and distract and that's fundamentally my my one of my principal
00:04:17.500concerns i'll talk through with you in the show today about this it seemed my criticism of this
00:04:23.420one of my criticisms of this isn't so much the content and what is said it's the fact that the
00:04:29.200catholic church is is spending energy saying it when i think it could be some of these arguments
00:04:34.660could be made more effectively by the laity and steve bannon's making these arguments all the
00:04:39.760time on the war room, for example. That's one concern. And the second concern is that
00:04:46.960it seems to me a rather desperate attempt for an irrelevant hierarchy to make a stab,
00:04:55.140a dash at relevance on the news cycle. That's my opener, right, of why I'm extremely hesitant
00:05:05.640to embrace this encyclical. I want to hear what you have to say, though, on this.
00:05:11.760Well, I know that they're comparing it to Ruron Navarro from 100 years ago or so,
00:05:19.060and the liberals have always used that encyclical as an excuse to push policy.
00:05:26.560So that's what is important to why they love that encyclical from Leo XIII and why Leo chose the name
00:05:34.140Leo because of Rero Novarum. So this is the new one that they're throwing on top of it.
00:05:39.400But really, it seems to me to be sort of a new attempt at Laudato Si, which was
00:05:47.640Francis's encyclical about global warming, about climate change. When that came out,
00:05:54.800that was a political tool for the left. And it has had, I'd say, poor results.
00:06:03.180they've used it over and over and over again but look at the the status of the uh of the whole
00:06:09.760environmental movement now 10 years later it hasn't really engaged like they would have liked
00:06:16.840this in particular has something that they feel like they can get their handle on and they can
00:06:23.740engage with this they're very hopeful about it they want uh artificial intelligence they want
00:06:29.740to be insert themselves in the middle of it, sort of like a union would insert itself between the
00:06:36.480management and the labor, making a little place for them and becoming another layer of management
00:06:42.340when it comes to everything AI, because AI is just the latest type of computing. And they've
00:06:50.100even enlisted somebody who's in the AI business. Oh, this Ola, the Anthropic is the name of the0.94
00:06:57.100company, at the time of the release of this, giving a speech in general. And they're so happy.
00:07:05.940We had Cardinal Cerny was up there yesterday looking ridiculous. I mean, he doesn't even0.82
00:07:11.280look like a cardinal anymore. They're talking about how wonderful it is that they're dialoguing
00:07:16.740with the actual imperilers of the dignity, the people who imperil the dignity. See,
00:07:23.700they they're the same people what they want to do is throw a monkey wrench in all sorts of
00:07:29.220productivity and they they have all around the world and this time they feel like they've really
00:07:33.740got a handle on it because they are working with people in the ai business but when you when you
00:07:37.980read about this this uh guy who from anthropic he's really crossed the trump administration
00:07:43.940see it's when you always have to go back to this is a political war ever since we've had francis
00:07:50.100it's a political war and uh that that's the whole point of this this whole encyclical and in the
00:07:56.660coming weeks we're going to see how they use it and based on how they use it you'll you'll see
00:08:01.500what it's really all about this is a political war okay um and you said earlier that one of
00:08:11.220your concerns is that this encyclical gives something to catholic progressives right to
00:08:17.360get their teeth into um in terms of the in terms of the um the political debate
00:08:26.960um you see here's another one of my problems with the
00:08:34.240not just encyclical everything that surrounds it they announced last week that they were
00:08:39.200forming a papal commission right on um on on ai um
00:08:51.280is it i find it somewhat fraudulent for the pope to come out and try as i say it's a dash for
00:08:59.440relevance i think and because he's coming out and trying to position himself here as the champion of
00:09:06.800the ordinary working guy right in the fear of the jobs apocalypse and what have you but let's be
00:09:13.760honest if he really cared about the employment opportunity of the ordinary regular guy he his
00:09:22.560vatican and his institutional church would be leaving leading from the front of the possessions
00:09:29.360against the third world illegal invasion because nothing is destroying jobs at the bottom rung
00:09:36.720of the employment ladder than being displaced from your job for someone who works for half
00:09:43.220your wage right but they're not leading from the front of uh of the anti-invasion political force
00:09:50.640they're leading from the front against that in favor of against those who are standing and making
00:09:57.360the difficult argument day to day in the in the public square against the invasion and they're
00:10:03.260leading in from the front in favor of the invasion so they're the pretense here how can you do that
00:10:10.400on the one hand and then push this kind of this kind of document out feigning pretending to be
00:10:18.320the the the champion of the ordinary working guy i don't get it well they they just need to have
00:10:25.020the cause. Just like all liberals, they have to have a cause. If they don't have a cause,
00:10:29.100they have no purpose. They're inserting themselves in the issue. They talk about that in here. They
00:10:34.700talk about how it's going to hurt jobs so much. But that's just like telephone operators. We don't
00:10:41.000need them anymore. They want to promote people's job irrelevant and jobs that don't really help.
00:10:48.160Everybody wants things to be helpful. The real problem here is that they have enough of the
00:10:53.540electrical power and the infrastructure to support this. And yes, people need to work on it,
00:10:59.860need to collaborate on making sure that it's just and it's human, like they say, and it
00:11:05.340protects human dignity, but it will increase jobs. It'll just make people's jobs more efficient,
00:11:11.680more productive, and more helpful. It's going to be good for jobs, but they want to be able
00:11:16.140to stand in the way of it and stop it. And it's the same with the wars, with military.
00:11:21.980This anthropic guy, he tried to, he would not let them, he had military contracts, and he would not provide the data information that the military needed.
00:11:33.180And he got smacked down by Pete Hegseth.
00:11:36.280And, you know, and the interior secretary, Dan Burgum is, I think his name is, he said, you know, I'm surprised that the popes even dabble in this, you know, comment on technology like this.
00:11:51.840But J.D. Vance, the Catholic, was very gushing and very positive about it.
00:12:15.560And he's going to admit the pope has a right to say these things.
00:12:20.700But when it comes down to the actual field and the nitty gritty of crossing, you know, business people and the Trump administration and its agenda saying, you know, this this encyclical says just war needs to be updated.
00:12:34.560It doesn't really exist. They're going to hit the military. You can't use A.I. for military purposes.
00:12:40.080They say, well, we're supposed to just like drop bombs like in World War Two and have them land on on civilians, you know, and then get blown out of the sky.
00:12:48.020these are their great recommendations that they're going to have but it's gonna it's gonna be a
00:12:52.300battle and that's what they're trying to accomplish you you're absolutely right on so many fronts that
00:12:57.640this is a battle um we'll hit the the doug burkham and jd interventions uh just a couple of minutes
00:13:05.440uh because i've got to do it's time of the show halfway and we've got to do a quick shout out to
00:13:11.320to our first sponsor which is birch gold as always here on the war room and now i saw something in
00:16:20.920So, off the top of my head, Doug Birkin, the Interior Secretary, as you were mentioning just a moment or so ago, said that he didn't realise it was the Pope's job to come out with AI-type editorials.
00:16:40.740and the vice president and newly minted catholic jd vance called the pope's analysis profound he
00:16:54.420said it was uh he said it was profound um and that illustrates i think the somewhat the splits
00:17:02.900within the administration right now on this which are going to the splits which i think
00:17:09.960will only um get wider i mean i didn't know of jd vance when he was still a protestant
00:17:18.440but i guess back in those days he might have had something more um you know so many converts to
00:17:25.480to to conceal catholicism they lose their edge when it comes to saying things and they just think
00:17:34.040identifying with the figure of the pope is the heart and the essence of catholicism and it's
00:17:40.040really not frank walker that really sort of right that's that's that's you you gave me the segue
00:17:46.280now into into what i really want to say about this encyclical um and that i think and this is
00:17:54.520really what highlights for me why it's all it's not that it's wrong it's that it's out of place
00:17:59.640first of all let's differentiate between ai and transhumanism okay often bunched together because
00:18:07.400of because of course the trans humanist religion leans and is dependent to some extent on ai but
00:18:16.920they are different phenomena ai i would bracket for now at least as still being largely the tool
00:18:24.020a tool much like any other an impact an important tool a powerful tool right um
00:18:32.320transhumanism and therefore as a tool its effectiveness will rotate around the human
00:18:41.820agent that is directing it with regards to transhumanism that is i i think just spiritual
00:18:48.700hubris spiritual pride plain and simple with a heavy lucifer and satanic or satanic element
00:18:58.760thrown in the antidote to both of those phenomena transhumanism and ai isn't papal
00:19:09.140encyclicals. It's the misdirection of the human heart and what I think modern theologians will
00:19:23.460call affectivity, right? St. Augustine would have called it affectus, which I think is the
00:19:31.140correct, the more broader correct theological philosophical term. But the problems here for
00:19:37.340both tools and ambitions and i'm talking about ai and transhumanism they are they are emanations of
00:19:49.500disordered human desire and the antidote to that is faith in jesus christ right
00:19:58.260that transcends catholicism it transcends evangelicalism in the splits between
00:20:04.360catholicism and protestantism right this is something that is so elemental
00:20:09.700faith in jesus christ offering up your will to god is the antidote
00:20:16.360um to these i think it's a phenomena i think it's very interesting it's that that they're
00:20:25.240that they're so heavy on this idea of artificial intelligence because that requires
00:20:30.380an artificial reality. You have to have a reality. Intelligence is processing data of reality and
00:20:40.480making good conclusions. And with Leo Church, I mean, a church would be integral to that. That's
00:20:47.080the point of the church, to tell you the reality, the spiritual reality and the physical, the reality
00:20:53.680of the past and the future, of our whole lives and after we die. That's reality. But what we have
00:21:00.120with Leo's church and with Francis's is an artificial reality. And so they're very excited
00:21:06.700about having artificial intelligence because they want to use that to impose a reality on
00:21:15.580everybody and create this fake kind of thinking. And they really want to be ahead of the game and
00:21:22.660involved in it right away. Chris Jackson and his response to this release, he had a great point
00:21:28.640that he made at the end of his piece that the synodal uh catholic church under leo is is already
00:21:36.960like an artificial intelligent algorithm catholic doctrine and teaching go in one end and always
00:21:43.500something uh new and and false comes out at the other end so they're they're really in this same
00:21:51.900business and they're just expanding on what they've been doing already you know that um
00:21:57.780i asked chat gpt to tell me the probability that the new you know what you just said there about
00:22:06.920the church and everything being and you're quoting chris jackson
00:22:10.720the the one and only chris jackson um reminded me of some research that i did i asked my chat gpt
00:22:21.600agent i fed in the whole encyclical and i said um tell me the probability that the new encyclical
00:22:28.720was written using ai and this is this is what it said it said there was a 0 to 10 chance that it
00:22:34.520was primarily generated by ai a near certainty that humans controlled the intellectual architecture
00:22:43.740but get this 70 to 85 percent chance that ai tools assisted portions of composition
00:22:52.700and editing so frank walker make of that what you will well it's out what they're saying out there
00:23:00.440is that cardinal kissy fernandez is is primarily responsible for writing this and he's been the
00:23:06.160producer of so much what they came out in the francis era and so much even quoting he's actually
00:23:11.200quoting himself. So whatever process he's used, it's four times as big as word for word as Rerum
00:23:19.420Navarum. And even J.D. Vance says he's just sort of red bits and pieces. You should be able to
00:23:26.440be able to read an encyclical. It shouldn't be absolutely impenetrable. A person should be able
00:23:33.260to make sense out of it. But that's not the point. The point is to use it as a tool that they can
00:23:37.880pick and choose from things here and there and that's why it's like this so yeah maybe ai was
00:23:44.260was part of it because they're an ai they're an ai church in so many ways and they don't really
00:23:49.260that would be people read that would be that would be ironic would it not that would that
00:23:55.940would be ironic if if if my ai agent gbt is accurate in that analysis let me go to that
00:24:02.840figure once again right 70 to 85 percent chance that ai tools assist and i quote my own ai here
00:24:09.30070 to 85 percent chance that ai tools assisted portions of composition or editing look in the
00:24:16.780two minutes before we go to the break i just want to make this point um and i don't want to come
00:24:23.300back to banging on the drum yet again about the second vatican council but i'll make this
00:24:29.320observation before the council the church the catholic church was it's it's a hundred percent
00:24:35.840mission was bringing souls to jesus christ and conversion right that lifelong process of
00:24:43.920conversion via formation the post conciliar church because it's not fundamentally interested
00:24:49.620in the faith and sees everything through a political lens is interested in conversion
00:24:58.500to the extent that people self-identify people identify as catholic that's what it thinks
00:25:04.820right version entails right and it's not um you know evangelicals understand this most
00:25:13.840novice order catholics seem to have forgotten it but what what all christians should be involved
00:25:18.960with is is preaching the gospel and bringing people on an individual basis to conversion
00:25:24.680in jesus christ when when that happens all the things that come out of that can then be dealt
00:25:31.420with like the order of the affections those things that you desire that you love that you want those
00:25:37.260things that that change how you think because because you you love certain things so much they
00:25:41.460change how you think and how you act right as they should but if you are loving and desiring the wrong
00:25:46.780things then that will that will that will poison everything else that comes out of that right so
00:25:52.840But the real solution is to return to formation on a one-by-one basis of the laity of priests, of bishops, of cardinals, of popes, to the rule and law of the kingdom of Jesus Christ.
00:26:08.180What this is, is a political viewing of political problems and giving political solutions to it fundamentally.
00:26:17.000And there's nothing more post-conciliar than that, I think.
00:26:21.740frank walker 30 seconds jd vance makes it doesn't make the exact point but he says i
00:26:27.480stopped twitter for lent being catholic and being christian is great through things like lent and i
00:26:33.800may stay off it forever i'm not on x anymore and that's the way you should look at ai he doesn't
00:26:38.980say that but he's saying it in the same article yeah we have control through our personal conversions
00:26:44.740we're dominant over these types of things we don't have to let them ruin our lives just because
00:26:49.940they're powerful. This is a powerful tool. It's a great thing, and it's great that the country is
00:26:54.880supporting it. And with our Christian understanding, we can use it to make everybody happy.
00:27:00.460The dollar's convertibility into gold ended in 1971. Gold was fixed at $35 an ounce.
00:27:08.460Well, fast forward to today, and the U.S. dollar has lost over 85% of its purchasing power. Gold,
00:27:15.620Gold, on the other hand, is increased in value by over 12,000%.
00:27:20.000That's why central banks are buying gold at record levels.
00:27:23.980That's why major firms like Vanguard and BlackRock hold significant positions in gold.
00:27:30.240And that's why I encourage you to consider diversifying your savings with physical gold from Birch Gold Group.
00:29:19.580But in order to refute some of these things on their own terms,
00:29:23.540perhaps speak to Steve and see if we can do a special roundtable on this.
00:29:31.940Because as you say, unlike a lot of encyclicals,
00:29:36.720that are just here today gone tomorrow and they capture a new cycle for 24 hours.
00:29:43.300This does deliberately drop material that exponents in the debate can use,
00:29:50.820that I say Catholics in public life can use to push an agenda one way or the other.
00:29:57.560And that's a very important thing here.
00:30:01.200So we'll follow this, we'll continue to study it folks
00:30:04.740and we'll come back with further insights on this but in talking about
00:30:13.140where the Catholic Church went wrong post council leads us quite nicely into
00:30:25.620the news that we're following every Wednesday Frank Walker which is the big
00:30:31.080You know, this is the biggest event in traditional Catholicism since 1988, and that is the Lefebvreists' consecrations of the new bishops, which you and I were speaking about last Wednesday.
00:30:44.900We didn't know the names then. I mean, there'd been some suggestions, I think, on various sites on the internet, but the society, the SSPX, the Lefebvreists, have published the four names of the guys who are going to be consecrated bishops. What's your take on this selection, Frank?
00:31:05.580well there's there's not a whole lot that's been out on it uh so far but the first thing that uh
00:31:13.440people have been saying about it is that they're young they're young bishops you know it's scary
00:31:19.220to release that information because you wonder if they'll be targeted it was a few years ago that
00:31:23.680many sspx priests and um and uh and um uh priors at the heads of seminaries were heads of um you
00:31:33.680You know, we're one central parish with lots of other parishes, satellite parishes around it.
00:31:40.000We're targeted for all sorts of charges by church militant.
00:31:43.820And I could see, that's a press organization.
00:31:48.360I could see this happening to these guys.
00:31:50.560But they're looking at the four that they picked.
00:31:53.440The things that strike me are none of them are or that were in seminary at a time when Archbishop Lafave, the founder, was started, who started the order.
00:32:04.500And he had a special saintly kind of charism.
00:32:08.820And if they did go to the Cone Seminary, which was a central seminary for the SSPX and still is today, it was only after their bachelor's level kind of studies, just at the tail end of it.
00:32:22.960And I'm also struck by the fact that some of them are very young. One of them is 36, one of them is 42. A few of them ran actually are rectors in seminaries, but there's sort of an American English weight to it because one of them is completely American and a couple of them only speaks English is all he speaks.
00:32:46.860So these are different things. It's heavily on the Americans. One is the rector of the seminary in Virginia, which has a lot of seminarians and teaches at that seminary. And he's a young one. He was born in 1990.
00:33:01.360that's right let's go through them because they're only four so you've got here i think
00:33:07.980because the sspx is largely it's it's emotional heart it's historical heart is in france um it's
00:33:17.260it is still large to this day i think a french movement so they've got two french guys one
00:33:22.380swiss guy um and an american so um the swiss guy is 53 the american uh is 45
00:33:33.680from kansas i know that's like the center of the sspx for the united states and he basically grew
00:33:43.520up in that town of st mary's which is like the planet sspx well lest lest we forget because
00:33:50.560some people incorrectly suggest that pope leo is the first north american pope um which
00:34:00.160putting aside whether he's a valid catholic pope for one moment he's not the first i mean even if
00:34:05.040he is he's not the first north american pope um because as all as all as all informed catholics
00:34:12.240will remember pope michael of um of happy memory of happy memory uh was can the the the late pope
00:34:22.960michael born and bred in in kansas um french another french one um is uh 42 and then the the
00:34:34.080the second French guy, born, as you say, in 1990.
00:34:38.960That's after the original consecration.
00:34:43.600So I think just before the death of Archbishop Lefebvre himself.
00:34:48.260That must have been, what was it, 91 or something, 92.
00:34:52.600So this guy's totally been formed in the post-Lefebvre era.
00:35:02.680I just want to draw out a couple of things.
00:35:06.080I don't really have that much to say about the four candidates.
00:35:11.000What's the expression? Candidates for Episcopal Consecration.
00:35:16.500I'm more interested in the letter that came out of Mensingen,
00:35:22.560the head, where the HQ of the Lefebvreists is.
00:35:30.020You saw this letter, right, from Father Pagliarani, who interestingly hasn't put himself on that list, which goes back, I think, who's the head of the Lefebvreist, which goes back to the Archbishop Lefebvre's original intention that the Secretary General wouldn't be one of the bishops, right?
00:35:56.220Bishop Fele, I think, is the notable exception to that.
00:36:03.820But Archbishop Lefebvre really wanted the bishops
00:36:21.380rather than being in the traditional leadership position.
00:36:25.220But going to the letter that accompanied the nominations, I just want to throw one extract at you and ask you for your quick takeaway on this.
00:36:35.180He says, the Secretary General says, in no way do these consecrations constitute a negation, a refusal or a challenge launched against the supreme plenary and immediate power of jurisdiction of the Vicar of Christ over the universal church.
00:36:52.960and my response to that is yeah whatever because that is exactly what these
00:36:58.860consecrations are without papal approval right
00:37:02.800yes that would be true if it weren't for the state of emergency that they use as
00:37:08.560justification and yeah he felt the need to throw that
00:37:11.520out there well there sure is a state of
00:37:16.060there sure is a state of emergency but that's because of the guy at the top of
00:37:20.240the apex, right? The state of emergency is because of the Pope. I don't understand why
00:37:29.160you would put that simpering passage into this letter. We don't say we're doing this
00:37:35.240because it is essential. Unless he thinks, and this is what I want to ask you for, unless
00:37:39.440his strategy is by saying this, putting all the simpering language into the letter, he
00:37:44.960He has, at the back of his mind, a hope that the Pope will say,
00:37:53.460oh, well, then, if that's what you want to do, do it,