Bannon's War Room - WarRoom Battleground EP 1029： Top EU Court Forces Catholic Poland To Accept “Gay Marriages” Confected In Other EU Countries

00:00:00.000 are really at breaking point. And those concerns that you described, Jenny,

00:00:05.080 are they being taken seriously by politicians in Northern Ireland?

00:00:10.620 Short answer is no. There are probably exceptions. There are also, I know there are exceptions on a

00:00:15.960 very local level. There was another interview with a young man in East Belfast that went viral

00:00:20.540 yesterday where he said that point. And I would agree, my interactions with local councillors

00:00:25.680 over things, they tend to be quite responsive. But the establishment politicians, so the MLA

00:00:31.620 is a storm, and certainly the national, whether UK or Ireland level politicians,

00:00:40.280 have been very condescending and sort of like, you'll take your medicine and you'll shut up

00:00:47.020 about it. And by the way, don't be racist. As if it's racist to be upset over a video 0.91

00:00:53.440 where we saw this vulnerable man being hacked at.

00:00:58.000 And, you know, they are the same.

00:01:02.120 The elite here suffers from the same willful blindness as it does on mainland UK,

00:01:07.800 as it does in the Republic of Ireland, as it does in various other places,

00:01:11.860 where you have these sort of professional managerial class policymakers

00:01:16.020 and these sort of star, quote unquote, politicians who like to glide about,

00:01:20.600 pretending like they're doing some sort of like honorable thing but actually the people on the

00:01:26.480 ground are suffering a great deal okay jenny appreciate your time this morning thank you

00:01:32.520 thank you very much thank you

00:01:34.020 this is the primal scream of a dying regime pray for our enemies because we're going medieval on

00:01:45.360 people. I got a free shot at all these networks lying about the people. The people have had a

00:01:52.180 belly full of it. I know you don't like hearing that. I know you try to do everything in the

00:01:55.900 world to stop that, but you're not going to stop it. It's going to happen. And where do people

00:01:59.300 like that go to share the big line? Mega Media. I wish in my soul, I wish that any of these people

00:02:07.120 had a conscience. Ask yourself, what is my task and what is my purpose? If that answer is to save

00:02:14.780 my country this country will be saved war room here's your host stephen k bann

00:02:22.220 thursday 11th of june and dominie 2026 harnwell here at the helm on steve bannon's war room well

00:02:38.820 Well, you saw the cold open.

00:02:41.060 We have a star with us on the show, well-known, of course, to the woman posse, Jenny Holland.

00:02:47.720 You were up at the crack of dawn this morning on GB News.

00:02:51.060 And I thought, I mean, I listened to that clip 10 times.

00:02:55.020 I think you were absolutely perfect in getting across, I think, the essential elements there.

00:03:00.780 You were on the show for, obviously, yesterday, Wednesday, for our roundup of Christian-related news,

00:03:07.400 trad catholic news revival based news that we do every every week and we have a devoted audience

00:03:14.520 for that show um i don't know whether um whether um our thursday posse um will will know you um

00:03:26.960 do you want to just say a quick recap of what you said on the show yesterday on wednesday um because

00:03:36.560 you did flag up the fact that you were personally expecting more troubles throughout the evening and

00:03:43.120 that did indeed come to pass what what is the situation there in northern island in belfast

00:03:48.800 where you are right now um and what have the developments been over the last 24 hours

00:03:54.940 sure so just for context i live fairly close to where the um attempted beheading took place

00:04:01.380 on Monday night, Sunday night. And I know the area very well where some of the rioting has

00:04:09.640 occurred. And yes, last night, there was a second night of unrest, as they say, even mystically,

00:04:16.840 not where the stabbing occurred, but a little bit further out, a couple of miles out in a

00:04:22.020 loyalist suburb by the name of Newton Abbey. And yeah, I mean, basically, what might be of interest

00:04:29.840 to or slightly surprising to American viewers is that the the rioting is not taking place in the

00:04:38.920 Catholic community where the stabbing took place, nor other Catholic communities, but is actually

00:04:43.440 being carried out by loyalists, activists and youths who have been protesting very

00:04:53.820 vocally and stridently and oftentimes peacefully against migrant housing in their areas

00:05:02.120 to no avail, as we saw on Monday night with the stabbing of this local man, Stephen Ogilvie,

00:05:11.900 who is said to have lost an eye and he's recovering, but was gravely, gravely injured.

00:05:20.260 So, you know, police may be expecting violence again tonight.

00:05:24.700 They are deploying water cannons, I think was the last news I read of this maybe an hour or so ago.

00:05:30.760 The weather year has been really quite bad.

00:05:32.700 It's very rainy.

00:05:33.380 I don't know if that will be enough to put out the flames metaphorically and literally.

00:05:39.440 But this is really feeling like an insurgency environment.

00:05:45.140 And I don't mean to be hysterical and I don't mean to be alarmist by that. But what I mean is that what we're dealing with are multiple sort of theaters of conflict, multiple threads of conflict, both historical and active.

00:06:04.680 And it's a very murky and increasingly, I think, sinister picture in terms of how it's being manipulated both in the media and on social media.

00:06:17.360 I want to make the point for our Thursday audience who might not be familiar, as familiar as the Wednesday audience with Jenny's output.

00:06:27.500 But Jenny, when she says that she doesn't want to be alarmist about this, Jenny's background is basically within the progressive milieu.

00:06:35.920 And as I think one of the best commentators in the world, especially on the arena of Gen Z and the increasing conservative and religious aspects of Gen Z across the West,

00:06:50.240 In being such an astute observer of these trends and others and some certain failings within liberal progressive ideology, Jenny herself has plotted a course retaining, I think, authentic to a lot of what liberal progressivism stands for.

00:07:08.340 But unlike most liberal progressive commentators, Jenny Holland is extremely alive to the faults and the excesses within that.

00:07:19.460 That's what she spends a lot of time writing about on Substack and also bringing her research and analysis to our Wednesday orders.

00:07:30.100 And I make that point. So when Jenny's there saying that she doesn't want to be alarmist about this, I mean, I could say I quite easily say alarmist things quite happily.

00:07:41.360 But for Jenny to come out and say these things, it is it is going somewhat against the temperamental strain, if you will.

00:07:52.180 um jenny so that said i want to pick your brain i want to know what you think because you and i've

00:07:58.620 been sort of looking at the news here me as an external observer you as you point out you're

00:08:04.240 living there right at the heart of this and one of the things we were chatting about before the show

00:08:10.880 um and indeed you know we spoke about it on the wednesday show yesterday in something that you

00:08:16.300 mentioned on your gb news piece this morning which is how the elites are reacting to the crisis

00:08:23.980 um and it's water cannons for the protesters really not for the people who are illegally

00:08:29.380 breaking into the country um so you know what if they turn the water cannons on the people who are

00:08:35.500 breaking illegally into the country i think a lot of the actual latest anger that we see bubbling

00:08:40.120 up would dissipate within minutes um what i want to ask you about is that the present leader of the

00:08:47.000 conservative party has come out with this um kami badenoch has come out with the most outrageous

00:08:54.400 uh you know political maneuver and she's actually blaming of all things reform nigel farage's

00:09:04.020 reform party that's never been in government never been anywhere near government uh since

00:09:09.160 This has been founded. And yet the Tory party is now saying, you know, it's all reforms for how, why is this all reforms for because two defectors who were disgusted with the Tory party's performative response on the invasion issue left the Tory party.

00:09:30.900 They left governing positions. They left the Tory party and defected. They crossed the floor, as we say in UK parliamentary terms, and joined Nigel Farage's quite small parliamentary representation.

00:09:45.420 And that's, we're talking about Robert Jenrick here, who was immigration minister under Rishi Sunak, and Suella Braverman, who was Home Secretary, as we say in the UK.

00:09:55.620 Americans will use, I think, Interior Secretary or something like that.

00:10:00.060 It's the same sort of thing.

00:10:01.320 Both of them discussed it with the deceit and performative response

00:10:06.680 of the Tory party, left the Tory party and joined reform.

00:10:10.520 And yet, the present leader of the Tory party says,

00:10:13.300 look, you want to know who to be angry at?

00:10:16.600 You want to know who to be angry at in Northern Ireland?

00:10:19.160 Be angry with reform, because these two people...

00:10:21.720 Now, Jenny, I'll hand the microphone to you now,

00:10:24.500 But how can anyone be this incompetent?

00:10:27.460 Because even if you take what she's saying seriously here,

00:10:31.120 she's saying that these two people who were not in reform

00:10:36.660 when they were in government,

00:10:38.280 they were members of the Conservative Party,

00:10:41.860 these two people are responsible for the situation of Northern Ireland

00:10:47.100 when they were in the Tory party,

00:10:49.340 nothing that they'd done in reform,

00:10:50.960 but when they were simply obeying orders from the Prime Minister,

00:10:53.720 the Tory prime minister at that time, and now they're in reform, therefore blame reform,

00:11:01.240 not the Tory party. I mean, that seems like not only is it a really squalid political point

00:11:07.940 scoring response to the situation in Northern Ireland right now, it doesn't even stand on

00:11:14.980 its own merits if you wanted to engage with it, right? Well, you know, the whole article is worth

00:11:21.380 reading all the way down to the bottom which isn't often the case with newspaper articles

00:11:24.920 but it's actually very entertaining because it reminds me of that meme uh of the batman of

00:11:31.120 starting out the batman the spider-man all the different spider-mans pointing fingers at each

00:11:35.120 other um and blaming each other because it starts off with kemi blaming uh generic and braverman

00:11:43.040 and then then someone else blaming rishi sunak and then rishi sunak blaming the civil service

00:11:48.660 and then civil service blaming the European Convention on Human Rights.

00:11:52.240 And it goes on and on and on.

00:11:53.760 It's like a set of nested Russian dolls of blame.

00:11:57.400 And it really, I mean, you have to laugh because the situation is so dire in the UK 0.97

00:12:02.500 with these sort of snowballing crimes.

00:12:06.360 And this is what the political class is doing. 0.65

00:12:09.080 They're just standing around a circular firing squad pointing fingers at each other.

00:12:13.700 However, I'm going to actually push back slightly in that there is one tiny way

00:12:17.380 in which that landed, although I agree with all of your points that it was Kemi's party that

00:12:23.200 oversaw all of these policies and is probably going to go down in history as the party of the

00:12:29.480 Boris wave, so named for her predecessor, Boris Johnson, who LARPed as a sort of have-a-go populist,

00:12:38.100 but turned out to be a big fan of unvetted military-age men arriving on small boats in

00:12:45.900 infinity numbers. But one thing that happened when Suella Braverman and Robert Jenrick defected from

00:12:51.960 the Conservative Party to join reform is that it did cause some discontent among the base,

00:12:58.140 the right wing base in the UK as to why are we letting in architects of these Tory immigration

00:13:06.100 policies. So actually, I think that's sort of a weakness that is easily exploitable. And

00:13:12.860 I can be did attempt to do that. You know, I take your point that it was not successful and it made her sort of cover herself in shame.

00:13:19.240 But, you know, politics is a dirty game. And it's really hard to see how anyone with links to the Tory party.

00:13:29.580 And I don't say this with any partisan glee at all. I'm not really a I don't being half American, half Irish.

00:13:37.300 I don't really have a dog in this fight, I suppose. 1.00

00:13:40.720 You know, the Tory brand is forever tainted and reform beware on taking on Tory refugees or asylum seekers, shall we call them. 1.00

00:13:52.320 No, we'll call them invaders here on the war, Jenny. 1.00

00:13:57.440 That's our preferred term here, third world. 0.98

00:14:00.660 I was referring to Jen Rick and Sue Ellen Braverman.

00:14:03.260 um jenny stay with us stay with us now go on carry on i think there's maybe they're seeking

00:14:11.960 asylum from the terrible tory policies uh they're seeking asylum with reform i think half that half

00:14:19.160 the countries uh is seeking asylum uh as um as uh political refugees from the toy party right now

00:14:27.840 Hold on, Jenny. I'll give a quick shout out to the sponsor of the first half of the show today, Birch Gold.

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00:16:24.720 Jenny, I like the way how you describe the blame game here

00:16:32.880 of our responsible and professional and competent political class.

00:16:37.560 It is very much like the Spider-Man meme that you mentioned

00:16:40.460 where they're all sort of pointing at everyone apart from themselves.

00:16:44.020 But look here at simply what they're admitting.

00:16:46.720 It's absolutely astonishing that going back to 2022,

00:16:50.420 if you remember, there was this huge backlog of up to 90,000 claims

00:16:55.600 And Rishi Sunak had pledged he was going to clear that backlog by the end of the year.

00:17:04.400 And this is exactly what they did.

00:17:06.660 They rounded up all the asylum claims from six countries, the Afghans, Eritreans, Libyans, Syrians, Yemenis, as well as Sudanese.

00:17:17.640 And they basically started giving them face-to-face interviews to make sure that what they were saying was true and also verifying it and checking it before letting people into the country.

00:17:30.680 They just sort of emailed that a 12-page questionnaire and let people say whatever they wanted and it was stamp done in.

00:17:38.820 And that's how the Conservative Party, the then Conservative government, eliminated the claim of 90,000 asylum claims backlogs.

00:17:51.300 You know, you and I, we travel occasionally, Jenny.

00:17:54.380 It's more difficult to get into the UK with a British passport at the airport these days than what it is.

00:18:00.660 you know if you're a taxpayer with a with a regular job britain a british born in britain

00:18:06.460 then someone who's basically comes off the boat off the dinghy off the north coast of france

00:18:10.260 goes straight into the hotels to the buff the three three square buffet meals a day plus the

00:18:16.480 cash handouts that they get um and then they're just oh you know we won't bother checking your

00:18:22.760 papers because you don't have any papers anyway because you ripped it up when you were mid-channel

00:18:26.860 threw it into the sea um so look whatever you're going to say to us we have no way of verifying

00:18:31.600 but stamp on the paper hey come on in um and you know ordinary british citizens are being hacked at

00:18:41.640 um on the streets as a consequence of this astonishing state defense and you and i both

00:18:47.380 studying this both both homed in on this same fact that that's basically what they were doing

00:18:52.080 has now come to light. That's how this performative, pathetic, disgusting excuse of a conservative 0.99

00:18:59.080 government dealt with its claim of 90,000 claim backlog. That is really striking to me when I saw 0.95

00:19:08.420 that. I was really taken aback because just as a lay woman observer paying attention to the news,

00:19:16.960 I can tell you that the nationalities, Afghan, Eritrean, Sudanese, these nationalities crop up very often in reports of crimes being committed, sex crimes being committed, especially against British women and girls.

00:19:36.300 It's just something I happen to note. 0.52

00:19:37.760 So when I saw that those countries in particular, of all the countries, and then the article basically says that the civil servants who put this policy through were sort of bleeding hearts, who thought, oh no, these are such terrible war-torn countries, we have to let these people in without checking.

00:19:57.240 You know, I would love to know how many of those 90,000 were women, how many of them were women versus how many of them were just men of military age who just wanted to come here.

00:20:09.220 And then in recent breaking news that the alleged stabber, we say alleged he has now been charged.

00:20:17.580 And we know there's lots of rules around what you can say when someone's charged.

00:20:21.980 He he was a policeman back home in his country of Sudan. 0.63

00:20:27.240 And that begs the question, why was he being fast-tracked like some poor wretch who would be welcomed in by the Statue of Liberty inscription who just came to make a better life in, of all places, Duncairn on the Antrim Road in North Belfast, which I said to you yesterday, is a very, very low-income area. 0.98

00:20:53.600 It is not a place where you want to end up. 0.99

00:20:57.240 bring me your huddled axe-wielding maniacs yearning to kill. 1.00

00:21:05.400 Basically, yes. Yes, that's exactly right. 1.00

00:21:08.360 And of course, the spin is very sophisticated

00:21:12.040 and there is an absolute propaganda operation underway among people now,

00:21:19.620 just regular people in Northern Ireland

00:21:22.060 who are sort of being given talking points via social media groups as to what is the proper way to think and process and discuss this appalling violence that was committed the other night upon this random man, Stephen Ogilvie.

00:21:40.720 You know, groups, let's say like progressive groups in Belfast are sharing a document telling them that they shouldn't focus on the crime itself, and the crime itself was random and had nothing to do with where the supposed attacker happened to be born, but rather it's an opportunity to come together.

00:22:04.000 And it's very similar to the nudge units that have been reported on extensively in mainland UK after things like the Manchester Arena bombing, when they put together a little propaganda campaign telling us to go out and hug some refugees because, no, they didn't really mean to blow us up.

00:22:21.400 We actually love each other very much when we get along.

00:22:25.120 This is very sophisticated operational tactics. 0.76

00:22:30.440 They're mostly peaceful murderers.

00:22:33.520 mostly peaceful beheaders yes we've got about what did you say mostly peaceful beheaders

00:22:40.820 they're mostly peaceful beheaders um i'm making a note of that um look we've got about three

00:22:48.380 minutes left here there is something um uh i want i i want to quickly take your get your reading on

00:22:55.720 because you did mention this and it is important and i think there's an element of truth to it

00:23:00.820 And that is the reference to, you know, you're talking about the Russian doll of blame avoidance.

00:23:09.200 But there is, I think, a truth in the suggestion that to some extent we are bound by the obligations of the European Convention on Human Rights

00:23:23.920 and the unquoted, up until now, Dublin Treaty,

00:23:27.920 which requires nations in Europe to take asylum seekers

00:23:33.160 at their first country of entry

00:23:35.980 from sort of outside the Convention's signatory block.

00:23:42.620 I mean, I think that is a legitimate thing.

00:23:46.400 When Rishi Sunak says, it wasn't me, it was the civil servants,

00:23:49.180 and the civil servants say, well, it's not us,

00:23:51.000 it's the European Convention of Human Rights.

00:23:53.920 There is an element of truth on that, right? And I say that not to help these guys, because I loathe and hate them. I think they should all be in prison, our political class. But there is an element of truth in that. 0.84

00:24:09.580 And I ask you this in like the 60 seconds you've got to respond is, if therefore, dot, dot, dot, if the British people really want to take charge of the invasion crisis with both hands, we do need to leave the European Convention, right?

00:24:28.000 Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, there needs to be a very clean break between all of the sort of old establishment ties.

00:24:34.720 And, you know, that's a very big ask. You know, we see in the States how hard it's been for Trump to take a sledgehammer to the soft power deep state permanent government apparatus.

00:24:49.800 It would be, I think, 10 times hard as hard here. Really, really quickly, actually, you know how we are always talking about Gen Z. 0.62

00:24:56.720 I think I think one of the things I've noticed on the ground here in just from gauging social media posts amongst the working class communities, of course, Northern Ireland famously sectarian divided right between Catholics, Republicans and loyalist Protestants.

00:25:14.700 One thing, and I only have two data points on this, but one thing we should keep an eye on going forward is I'm beginning to wonder if the younger generation, say Gen Z adults, not the teenagers, but the teenagers and the young adults, and maybe slightly older, are not falling for the sectarian divide as much.

00:25:36.360 I think the Republican community traditionally is very pro-Palestinian, very pro-migrant.

00:25:43.680 The Republican terrorist paramilitaries had ties to Arab terrorist groups going way back to the 70s.

00:25:52.640 I'm wondering if the younger generation of people living in regular neighborhoods is becoming more influenced by the podcast and alt-right, for lack of a better phrase, discourse,

00:26:04.100 and are more willing to come together with their Protestant peers.

00:26:09.460 That's something I will be looking out for.

00:26:12.140 That would make a great deal of sense because they had their formation of adults

00:26:15.800 post-troubles after the Good Friday Agreement.

00:26:18.580 Jenny Holland, 20 seconds.

00:26:20.880 Where do people go on Substack and X to keep up with your analysis?

00:26:26.480 Okay, Substack is JennyEHolland.substack.com.

00:26:30.660 And on X, I'm SemperFemina21.

00:26:34.100 And I'm on YouTube as well, at Saving Culture From Itself.

00:26:39.720 And, okay, stay with us, folks.

00:26:42.560 We'll be back.

00:26:43.300 It just took us off for this commercial break.

00:26:45.620 Thanks very much to Jenny Holland for joining us live from Belfast in Northern Ireland

00:26:50.540 and recounting her first-person analysis of these events and headlines

00:26:56.080 which have been grabbing news attention right across the world.

00:26:59.260 Stay tuned, folks.

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00:32:04.560 welcome back well i think from about late 2024 on which there's been a number of

00:32:12.540 developments in a particular story here that we're going to be discussing for the second

00:32:17.860 half of the show and that is in Poland they have recently started I think it was in March they

00:32:24.740 might have signed off my next guest will go into the details on this but the the Warsaw the capital

00:32:30.640 of Poland signed off on the mayor and under the mayor's instruction signed off on the first

00:32:36.360 recognition in Poland of a homosexual marriage which had been confected if that's the word

00:32:43.940 in Germany. And the reason the backlog to this is a sentence from the European Union Court of

00:32:55.180 Justice, which is the highest court of justice within the European Union, which said, which

00:33:01.140 placed the obligation on member states to transpose these, or marriages that are legal

00:33:10.360 elsewhere in the union into all member states.

00:33:16.600 That's basically it.

00:33:17.840 And in Germany, homosexual marriage is legal. 0.79

00:33:20.680 In Poland, it's not. 0.91

00:33:22.040 So anyone who gets married in Germany now can carry that little document 0.52

00:33:26.480 and oblige the Polish government to recognize it. 0.97

00:33:29.760 It's a sort of backdoor way of forcing a deeply Catholic country

00:33:36.640 into having a de facto recognition of something

00:33:41.580 which has never been voted for by the Polish people.

00:33:44.180 I might have got some of these details wrong.

00:33:46.960 My next guest is going to talk me through

00:33:49.380 not only what the situation is,

00:33:50.980 but what his organisation is doing about it.

00:33:53.300 And that's Olivier Beau,

00:33:54.780 who is the head of communications

00:33:57.360 at one of the best organisations,

00:34:04.180 NGOs in the European Union

00:34:06.020 of tackling this kind of judicial activism

00:34:08.260 and that's the Ordo Joris Institute

00:34:10.760 I worked sort of closely with them

00:34:12.280 when I was working in the European Parliament

00:34:13.800 fantastic, fantastic organisation

00:34:16.240 Olivier, you're very welcome here

00:34:18.280 on the war room

00:34:19.720 will you just give me

00:34:21.380 and our viewers

00:34:23.420 an analysis of exactly

00:34:26.120 what the situation is in Poland

00:34:27.600 and then we're going to talk about

00:34:29.540 the amicus briefing which you guys have just

00:34:32.120 filed in support

00:34:33.680 of some members of parliament um polish members of parliament in the in the same um that are

00:34:40.020 that are challenging the the legal basis of the e the european union court of justice ruling uh

00:34:47.380 with the i i think untouchable argument uh that the the european court of justice has no

00:34:53.860 jurisdiction on on these issues but first tell me what is the situation in poland that people let

00:34:59.440 folks at home get an idea of what's going on here in the european union poland and of course

00:35:04.800 probably along with malta along with croat croatia one of the most catholic countries in the european

00:35:12.280 union had this huge uh well of affection or so we all thought uh because of john paul the second

00:35:20.940 who was pope for 26 uh and 27 and a half years um so i'm going to ask you whilst you're here on the

00:35:28.860 show is poland still a catholic country uh looking at what sort of your political elites are pushing

00:35:35.720 through donald tusk the prime minister on downwards um or is the fact that they've done everything to

00:35:42.780 avoid letting the polish people vote on this in illustration that yes indeed poland is actually

00:35:49.020 still a catholic country so what what what has happened and what is order your um what have you

00:35:56.100 spring into action to oppose here yes well thank you for having me uh yes the the only thing i

00:36:04.140 would need to correct is that the first transcription of a foreign document of marriage

00:36:11.580 into the polish civil registry by the mayor of warsaw was in may all the rest was very correct

00:36:19.620 That's exactly what happened. But on the legal side, you have to make it clear that there

00:36:26.420 is still no gay marriage in Poland. The issue is about transcribing foreign acts of civil

00:36:34.660 registries into the Polish civil registries. And yes, you're right, the November decision

00:36:42.900 of the court of justice of the European Union was taken out of its jurisdiction, so it shouldn't

00:36:48.900 be recognized and you have very often this kind of situations in the European Union where

00:36:55.780 national courts and in particular constitutional courts state that a decision, a given decision

00:37:03.140 by the Court of Justice of the European Union cannot be applied because it's out of its field

00:37:08.580 of competence. In the European treaties, in the treaty on the European Union, you have Article 5

00:37:15.620 which states very clearly that all competencies which have not been transferred to the European

00:37:22.740 Union belong to the States. And marital law, family law are such competencies which have never

00:37:29.620 been transferred to the European Union. And the reason why the Court of Justice had to take a

00:37:37.460 decision on this is because you had three, a group of three activist judges from Poland,

00:37:45.140 from the Supreme Administrative Courts, which asked, they filed a referral to the Court of

00:37:53.700 Justice to state on this. The two people, the two gay people who wanted to have their marriage

00:38:00.500 transcribed to the Polish civil registries are actually Polish people who went to Berlin

00:38:08.500 to get married, quote-unquote, and then to have this recognised in Poland. But the only

00:38:16.020 thing which has changed in Poland is the regulation by the government which has changed the form

00:38:22.180 in order to allow the civil registries to register those marriages. But this is illegal,

00:38:28.180 This is unlawful by Polish law and by the Polish constitution.

00:38:33.360 Well, this brings us then on to the amicus briefing,

00:38:37.580 and that was scrolling up on the screen just a couple of moments or so ago.

00:38:42.100 And I just want to see if I've got this right.

00:38:44.940 Tell me if I've got this right.

00:38:46.040 So the European Union Court of Justice issued this ruling

00:38:51.000 on the mandatory transposition or transcription of marriages abroad

00:38:59.360 in all member states, therefore including in Poland.

00:39:03.940 And the Supreme Administrative Court of Poland took this ruling by the EU CJ,

00:39:12.440 the European Union Court of Justice.

00:39:15.700 They took this ruling of that, your own court in Poland,

00:39:18.620 and said, this is binding here in Poland,

00:39:21.360 therefore it needs to be implemented in Poland.

00:39:24.060 And the mayor of Warsaw took that judgment of the Polish court

00:39:29.300 and said, okay, so therefore I'm obliged, therefore,

00:39:33.800 I think he was willingly obliging himself to follow the dictates.

00:39:40.860 My question for you, it's a technical question, right?

00:39:43.580 Now you're wheeling back from that, you're zooming out on that,

00:39:46.740 Ordo Joris is saying, this is the position, let's pull back and see whether the European Union Courts of Justice actually has the jurisdiction to have issued that ruling in the first place.

00:39:57.040 And it's pretty clear that it doesn't, for the reasons that you've just given.

00:40:00.300 My question to you is this.

00:40:04.460 And I want to give the benefit of the doubt to the Polish Supreme Administrative Court here.

00:40:10.060 Had that the European Union Court of Justice ruling been legitimate, as in had that court, the actual jurisdiction to have produced that sentence, it would be binding on the Polish state to implement that in Poland, right?

00:40:32.740 If it were a legitimate ruling.

00:40:35.500 The thing is that in the Polish Constitution, you have Article 18 of the Polish Constitution which defines marriage as the union of a woman and a man.

00:40:47.460 And the supremacy of EU law over national law does not cover national constitutions.

00:40:56.920 Although you have a conflict on this, the Court of Justice of the European Union says that it does.

00:41:02.540 But several courts of justice of member states have said in the past that it doesn't, including the Polish Constitutional Tribunal.

00:41:12.560 So even if it was in its jurisdiction, it could not apply without a change in the Polish Constitution first.

00:41:21.520 And there's also another point is that it's not the Supreme Administrative Court, it's a panel of three judges.

00:41:29.360 And it's very important to understand that, because in 2019, there was a judgment, a ruling by an extended panel of the same court, of the Supreme Administrative Court, which said that gay marriage or same-sex marriage could not be transposed in Polish civil registries.

00:41:49.920 And in Polish law, a panel of three judges cannot overrule this extended panel of seven

00:41:57.820 judges.

00:41:58.820 If they want to change this ruling, they would have to turn to the same Supreme Administrative

00:42:04.640 Court asking for a new ruling with, again, an extended panel of judges, which they didn't.

00:42:12.480 So even those three judges, by turning to the European Court of Justice, broke the Polish

00:42:18.220 law.

00:42:19.220 They acted typically as activist judges.

00:42:23.840 I mean, going back to, I think, the Lisbon Treaty here,

00:42:28.340 or actually it's the Maastricht Treaty,

00:42:31.080 excuse me, Maastricht Treaty,

00:42:32.400 that imposes European law as sovereign over individual EU member states.

00:42:39.680 Give me 30 seconds on this.

00:42:42.240 Is it a legitimate...

00:42:44.400 Is the confusion here legitimate?

00:42:50.280 Does it need to be clarified whether that extension,

00:42:53.600 that supremacy of EU law, does include supremacy

00:42:58.600 over individual member states' constitutions?

00:43:01.780 Is that something that needs to be cleared one way or the other

00:43:04.880 for the sake of coherence?

00:43:07.900 It would have to be cleared,

00:43:09.760 but then you have the constitutional course of Germany,

00:43:14.020 of France, of Italy, of Spain, so pretty big states which have stated in the past that the

00:43:19.860 constitution of their own countries is above EU law. So if there is a contradiction between EU law

00:43:28.340 and the national constitution, you have to change the constitution first. Until you do that,

00:43:34.280 the constitution still applies. Very, very quickly, I'll say this and then give a quick

00:43:39.700 shout out to our sponsor of the second um the second half of this show one of the reasons that 0.88

00:43:46.200 membership of the eu was so intolerable to the british people and you know the the brits are

00:43:52.360 very proud of the fact that like they've had a thousand years of progression of growing

00:43:56.520 parliamentary democracy rule of law a trial by drawing all the all of these things some of them

00:44:02.220 going back to 1215 magna carta itself and brits really did bristle at the fact that the european

00:44:09.680 European Union, which is comprised of countries, some of whom have been democracies for five

00:44:14.160 minutes, basically, sitting there without any democratic mandate whatsoever, issuing

00:44:18.880 these directives, and they're being supreme over the UK, that really didn't go down well

00:44:28.520 with the UK.

00:44:29.220 So, I mean, I'd never heard this argument before, that constitutions themselves of the

00:44:35.620 EU member states are exempt from the sovereign supremacy of EU law.

00:44:41.640 And I'd like to see how that's settled.

00:44:44.440 I'd like to see who gets the jurisdiction of deciding the case on that.

00:44:49.420 I have a feeling it's going to be our friends at the European Court of Justice

00:44:53.420 that will decide for themselves that, yes, EU law is supreme

00:44:57.960 over constitutional law of member states where there is a conflict.

00:45:01.680 They have already, actually.

00:45:04.360 They have already.

00:45:05.500 In December, they said it against a ruling by the Polish people court who said otherwise.

00:45:18.380 The European Union itself claims the sovereignty, and it's the member states who are saying, no, no, no, our constitutions are sovereign.

00:45:27.740 Let's see how this one gets resolved.

00:45:29.620 Stay with us, Olivier. Back to continue this towards the end and the last five minutes of the show.

00:45:35.400 Just quickly, though, so many brands today claim to stand for American values, but most of the time it's all talk and no action.

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00:46:54.640 back with Olivier

00:46:57.320 Bowe, head of

00:46:58.860 communications at the Ordo Joris

00:47:01.100 Institute. Look, we've got

00:47:03.100 five minutes of the show left.

00:47:05.520 When I was reading your

00:47:07.300 amicus briefing

00:47:09.160 that you filed in support of these

00:47:11.280 I think law and justice

00:47:12.960 deputies

00:47:14.240 in the Polish parliament,

00:47:16.200 the same.

00:47:19.200 I had

00:47:20.540 the first thing I wanted to know

00:47:22.300 is in what capacity

00:47:24.080 Did they file the original motion here?

00:47:27.900 Is it on behalf of the government?

00:47:29.260 Well, not the government.

00:47:30.080 Is it on behalf of the opposition?

00:47:32.040 Or is it just simply in their own names as freestanding members of parliament who are particularly opposed to this?

00:47:41.300 It's as members of parliament.

00:47:43.720 A group of members of parliament can file a motion to the constitutional tribunal.

00:47:48.260 We can't as a legal think tank, but what we can do is file an amicus to support this motion,

00:47:55.140 and that's exactly what we did. And there's something which should be said also about

00:48:02.100 this regulation, which was issued by the government of Donald Tusk, is that it's yet

00:48:09.300 another example of the left liberal government of Donald Tusk, who is openly supported by

00:48:17.300 Brussels, including financially, as the European Commission unblocked the tens of billions of

00:48:24.660 euros which had been blocked for years under previous governments, under the pretext that

00:48:30.980 they were supposedly violating the rule of law. And now you have a government which is openly

00:48:38.740 violating the rule of law, a government which has stopped publishing the rulings of the

00:48:46.260 constitutional tribunals in early 2024. We have already over 70 such rulings which haven't been

00:48:54.180 published and which are not applied. And this regulation which orders the civil registries to

00:49:03.220 register same-sex marriages entered into abroad are just another example. You can't change the law 0.91

00:49:12.340 and the constitution with a decree, with a governmental decree. You can just apply the

00:49:20.020 existing law with a decree. So if they want to make a same-sex marriage in Poland, they 0.77

00:49:27.780 will have to change the constitution first and then to change the law. You have about

00:49:33.060 There are about 267 laws in Poland where marriage is defined or mentioned as the union of a man and a woman.

00:49:45.880 Olivier, can you tell me what the next steps are in this legal challenge?

00:49:52.240 You've got about a minute.

00:49:53.600 What happens? You filed, I think, like two or three weeks ago, this amicus briefing in support of the law and justice members of parliament.

00:50:03.460 What happens next when you expect to get a response or a definitive ruling?

00:50:08.140 We're calling. We just had a press conference this afternoon.

00:50:11.800 We are calling on local governments and on civil servants at the local level in the civil registries

00:50:21.320 to refuse to transcribe such unlawful acts of marriage, and we promise them free legal

00:50:30.200 assistance by our lawyers if needed, if they get into trouble because of this.

00:50:36.920 We've reminded them that if they do transcribe those marriages, those acts of marriages,

00:50:43.240 of marriage, they could get into trouble after a change of government, because that would be

00:50:48.040 breaking the law. And we've issued today a brochure that explains them what is the real

00:50:55.960 state of the law and how they should act. And we're organizing a webinar next week for local

00:51:03.080 governance and for uh for those civil servants at the local level too that's um that's very clever

00:51:12.040 of you to remind civil servants and officials that they're not going to be in power or at least be

00:51:18.680 operating under the the free movement of donald tusk for the prime minister forever there will be

00:51:27.080 uh at some point and they will need to be held responsible for their actions now

00:51:32.280 if their actions are found at a future date to be quite clearly against the law that's a smart move

00:51:37.960 i think to remind people that they will be a public officials especially that they will be

00:51:42.840 accountable for for what they do um olivier beau where did people go to find out more about order

00:51:49.320 your wrist or to keep up with your analysis on social media so on social media we have

00:51:56.120 We have an English language social account on X and on Facebook, that's Ordo Iuris International.

00:52:03.600 And using translators, automatic translators, you get even more materials on our Ordo Iuris Polish language profiles.

00:52:11.960 And you can go on our webpage, Ordo Iuris.pl, which is also in English.

00:52:18.540 And I just want to point out that's Iuris, I-U-R-I-S, Ordo Iuris.

00:52:24.600 Olivier Boe, thanks so much for coming on the show.

00:52:26.640 We'll catch up again with you soon.

00:52:27.780 Thanks to Victoria Santifranco for putting this show together

00:52:30.580 and to Rob at Real America's Voice in Denver.

00:52:33.880 God bless for now.

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Bannon's War Room - June 11, 2026

WarRoom Battleground EP 1029： Top EU Court Forces Catholic Poland To Accept “Gay Marriages” Confected In Other EU Countries

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