00:06:09.060Now, what you're saying here is very different
00:06:11.700from how the British press is spinning this,
00:06:15.520Because if you're reading The Guardian or the BBC's articles reporting this, it sounds like the High Court, in granting the injunction to Oxfordshire County Council, prohibited you guys from raising the St. George's flag.
00:06:36.760But in fact, it's an across-the-board prohibition now.
00:06:40.500tell me the first thing that i say so no so no so no palestinian flags no rainbow flags nothing
00:06:46.720no flags whatsoever tell me now a couple of things here uh because i've been wading through some of
00:06:52.860your own um releases here um and that's really where the information is it's not in the press
00:06:58.340articles it's in some of the things you did a very good interview i think with a colleague of yours
00:07:03.100inside the court itself a lot of details emerged from that for example the judge who held this
00:07:10.100he was called in that day simply to hear this case that was the only case in his agenda for
00:07:16.820this day secondly the injunction only applies to council property right it's not a prohibition
00:07:24.260it applies only to the council's property what would happen if the council on its own authority
00:07:32.040wanted to be able to raise a gay pride flag or a palestinian solidarity flag would they be able
00:07:39.660to do that well it looks like they can sort of do what they like because when you're in the county0.84
00:07:45.480of oxfordshire um obviously the zebra crossings that are there and it's you know it's black white
00:07:51.220black white zebra crossing and you know the crossings for pedestrians they've actually
00:07:56.140changed them now to rainbow crossings so and the council have actually stopped traffic
00:08:01.800got these painted and i think how are they spending the public's money on things like this
00:08:07.680and we're putting a flag up to show a bit of patriotism,
00:08:10.800a bit of old traditional British values,
00:08:13.360yet they are spending council tax money on rainbow flags,
00:08:19.400rainbow, you know, painting zebra-plossings.
00:08:24.020And I just think it's just completely,
00:17:23.02010 years later, that spot price is up to $4,500.
00:17:29.800A huge, huge increase from $1,200 to $4,500 in just 10 years.
00:17:35.360If you're wondering where the price of gold might go in the next 10 years and you want in on the action, perhaps you're finding yourself suffering a little bit of FOMO, fear of missing out.
00:17:47.360And you want to be there 10 years time, having got in at the particularly advantageous price right now for gold.
00:17:58.600And it's on a little bit of a dip, which you might be paying attention to.
00:18:05.260Now would be definitely the time, right?
00:20:42.400you have literally been stopping yourselves right yourselves private individuals spending
00:20:48.420your own resources going there you yourselves with the cameras phones videoing have literally
00:20:56.060stopped people invading this country um and i think that represents the very best of the anglo-american
00:21:04.040ideal actually of taking matters into your own hands and not waiting for government or the
00:21:09.320authorities, inverted commas, to deal with something, but to go out there and do it yourself
00:21:13.280as rational, empowered individuals. And I'll tell you what else I like about Raise the Colors is
00:21:20.800that you're not just content with promoting warm and fuzzy feelings of patriotism. You're out there
00:21:28.700doing the gritty work in the opposition. And you would ordinarily think, knowing something about
00:21:35.660rtc and the legal problems that that that that the effort in raising the flags on street posts
00:21:44.660was the hard work it's not the hard work um that that comes out of your patriotism is is there what
00:21:52.040we just saw in that footage it's you going out to the beach saying here are the people we're going
00:21:57.240to physically stop you ourselves and then they turn back right that is those two things i think
00:22:03.480It's the patriotism, the symbolism of the patriotism flying St. George's flag, but the actual raw, hard work of putting that patriotism in practice.
00:22:18.860I can't think of any other organisation that does both of these things. And they absolutely do belong together.
00:32:25.100Yesterday it blew up in the English speaking press
00:32:30.920Hat tip here to remix news that we often have here on The War Room
00:32:35.800I think pushing this out in the English speaking world
00:32:40.260It's been also quite big the day before in the German speaking world
00:32:45.240This is a report, a 1,500 page report that has come out in Germany
00:32:50.320effectively saying that it would be legitimate for the federal constitutional court to suppress
00:32:59.440the AFD, the Alternative for Deutschland, which is now running about on 30% in the polls. It's
00:33:07.38010% ahead of the governing Christian Democratic Union, the CDU, and Chancellor Friedrich Metz.
00:33:15.640And there's obviously, therefore, because the drumbeat about this is starting to pick up a little bit of acceleration, there's a lot of concern that this report by the Society for Civil Rights or Gesellschaft für Freiheit, rechter, in Germany, the GFF is preparing the ground.
00:33:39.380The point about this report, which doesn't call it outright for the suppression of the AFD, but the idea is, the fear is, is that this is a report that has been 13 months in the making precisely to lay the juridical and political and media ground for the full-on legal suppression of the AFD.
00:34:01.160With me to join me now to talk about this Arian Agashahi, regular guest here on the Warren Arian.
00:34:09.660I know you're following this, as I think everybody in Germany quite closely right now.
00:34:14.620Tell me, when you saw this report drop, tell me first of all, before you go into it,
00:34:19.740what was your first instinct that this is a totally innocent report, speculative,
00:34:24.340or that it's actually been written in order to be instrumentalized for the suppression of the AFD?
00:34:31.160So we are currently witnessing the last moments, the last episode of a political chapter in Germany, which started probably after the reunification 1989-1990, where we had certain rules and certain ideas about the political system, which we considered as normal.
00:34:59.780and we are now experiencing the last moment of this.
00:35:04.940I would compare it probably to the time when the Republican Party
00:35:10.040took a major change during the Tea Party movement
00:35:13.620and this movement then turned into the Republican Party
00:35:20.040was somehow absorbed and transformed the political debate totally.
00:35:25.680And the same process was going on or is still going on in Germany
00:35:29.740And we are now experiencing the end of the chapter and a new chapter beginning on the horizon, which will be the moment when the AFD is finally taking over political responsibility in Germany, which will happen.
00:35:45.300So this report is a hopeless attempt by people from the current political system who hold power and who benefit in the current status quo, and it will definitely not be successful.
00:36:03.500We will see over the course of this year huge electoral wins by the AFD in the state elections upcoming in the fall.
00:36:15.300So what is important is we can talk about this report, which won't be meaningful, but we should, in my opinion, much more to talk about what is really substantively the political situation in Germany and the possible dangers which we really have as conservatives.
00:36:36.580Because the danger will not be that the AFD could be banned, because this is definitely not a likely scenario.
00:36:43.640However, the danger I see is that we are currently developing a very big conservative and right-leaning coalition, which is actually very fragmented under the umbrella of the AFD.
00:37:00.520and since we are having momentum we are not focusing on the internal issues we see this
00:37:08.960report and say this is a hostile report and then we know that in four months we have elections
00:37:14.540which we will win and then what happens is that the moment we take power we start to realize
00:37:22.240that we now have responsibility however we are not able to assume this responsibility
00:37:28.400because we didn't focus on the actual tasks which we have,
00:37:33.760which are definitely not to fight against this report,
00:37:37.500which are much deeper and hidden behind, you know, the scene.
00:37:45.500So you're suggesting, if I've got this right,
00:37:48.380that because there are a lot of people who are taking this seriously,
00:37:50.960but I think that's what you're warning against.
00:37:53.160You're suggesting that firstly, as a manoeuvre, it's not going to work.
00:37:58.220the idea that the federal constitutional court will suppress the AFD on constitutional grounds.
00:38:06.380You're suggesting that's not going to happen.0.70
00:38:08.660If there is a legitimate attempt behind this, that's going to fail, that attempt, on behalf of the German elites.
00:38:15.120What you're cautioning against, if I've got this correctly, is that you don't think four months before an election,
00:38:20.780The AFD should be wasting its political, financial, legal resources in fighting something that's not going to achieve its fundamental purpose and will therefore be a substantial distraction in these crucial months.
00:38:36.600Is that what you're suggesting? Is that your warning?
00:38:39.560Yes, Ben, generally speaking, you know, the authority which published this report is actually not even an authority.
00:38:48.940It is not a court. It is not a state authority. This was published by a civil society NGO that conducts strategic litigation and constitutional law projects. These kind of reports are frequently published in all Western countries.
00:39:06.600You just remember you have so many left-leaning and progressive-leaning NGOs and think tanks on the Hill who publish all sorts of reports.
00:39:18.340Of course, it is in the light of the current debate something which on X and on social media is discussed because, you know, you can frame it very dramatically.
00:39:30.060But we have a constitutional court in Germany, and we have a legal system, and our constitutional court is the authority which decides whether a party is banned or not, and not a privately financed NGO which is publishing a 1,500-page report, which probably was primarily generated through AI.
00:39:57.080so this is not really a big issue for either the afd or the conservatives generally because it will
00:40:07.280fail but if you like we can you know focus and speak about what i consider as a strategic and
00:40:15.620structural problem of the afd and the conservatives generally in germany right now
00:40:21.480which is the real danger which we face in the future sure go ahead you've got two minutes
00:40:27.680okay so you know just remember the last american election when you had a huge win
00:40:36.160and trump won the election now what you see in the u.s is that the foundation of this coalition
00:40:45.780which brought Trump and the Republicans into power
00:41:13.520They are united by the fact that there is a system and an establishment which is fighting them.
00:41:24.640This report is representing this establishment.
00:41:29.280However, since we are not abandoning democracy, at least so far in Germany,
00:41:35.540there will come a moment in the near future where the AfD will assume real power.
00:41:41.060At that moment, the AFD must work professionally and must be able to function within the system of government.
00:41:51.260And since we are right now only fighting against outside enemies, we are not really focusing on what needs to be done for a relatively young party, which does not have any experience in real governments internally, speaking about having the right teams, the right real policy, which can be implemented at the moment when you assume power.
00:42:14.740and then what happens is that you could have a bounce back
00:42:18.380because the AFD could take power, could have some sort of control
00:42:22.680then you see that you have different groups, you have conflict of
00:42:26.580interests, you have orientation crisis and then
00:42:30.580the 30% right-wing coalition which we have right now
00:43:06.980What you, Arian Agashahi, would be more urging as a political consultant is to prepare the party effectively for the transition from being an opposition party-stroke movement into a governing power.
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00:45:11.640There are a couple of things that you mentioned in the first half, and I really must be devil's advocate here and push back.
00:45:20.240And one of these things is because you mentioned the situation in other Western countries.
00:45:24.640I'll cite the case in the UK, but certainly it's the case in America that when NGOs that push out policy papers like this, it's not an innocent exercise.
00:45:37.620It is, you know, you say that you have the federal constitutional court at one level and the decision with them, but certainly in the United States, but also to the UK, there is a preparing of the ground that takes place years in advance with documents exactly like this one.
00:45:58.520That's the purpose. And it helps to prepare people for the judicial activism at the end of it.
00:46:43.280I wouldn't suggest it was a fair totally out of place
00:46:46.920to suggest that this whole thing is a pretext
00:46:50.100in order to suppress the AFD at the end of the line.
00:46:57.440That said, in favour of what your argument is, and you'll forgive me for making the point, right? You can easily swat it aside. But in favour of what your argument is, is that the President Chancellor himself, Friedrich Merz, has said he doesn't believe that the AFD should be suppressed.
00:47:15.800It would be an undemocratic manoeuvre, smacking of the suppression of political opposition.
00:47:22.340And it's pretty clear that if the CDU isn't supporting this, it's probably not going to go anywhere because there are only three bodies.
00:47:28.820If I understood this correctly, Erin, there are only three bodies that can actually petition the suppression of a political party from the German federal constitution court.
00:47:39.060And that's the lower chamber, the Bundesrat, the upper chamber, the Bundestag and the federal government itself.
00:47:47.940And if the CDU isn't going to play ball on that, it's probably not going to go anywhere.
00:47:52.460But I put the point to you that that one can't necessarily be too innocent about these kind of manoeuvres,
00:48:00.200because the whole point about this is to set up that pretext for an eventual manoeuvre by the court.
00:48:07.500let me let me just put that point to you once again yeah yeah you know our political system
00:48:15.900in germany was established after the second world war heavily influenced by the allies
00:48:22.900and germany was needed as a front state because if there would have been a warm war and not just
00:48:32.120a Cold War, Germany would be the front line. And therefore, West Germany was a very significantly
00:48:40.160important part of the strategic consideration of the Allies after the Second World War,
00:48:46.700during the Cold War. Therefore, instruments were established which could prevent that a political
00:48:54.240force could take over the German government, which would be against the Western interest.
00:49:06.640What you're basically suggesting is that when the Allies set up
00:49:09.780the contemporary structure of post-war Germany,
00:49:13.780the fear was that there'd be some kind of fifth-column movement
00:49:17.440funded by the USSR that would undermine the West German government
00:49:26.580And so that these measures here were really around that particular historical fear, which wasn't, which in the time of the Cold War was not by any means a paranoid response on behalf of the United States, right?
00:49:45.520No, at all. As somebody who strongly believes in the Western civilization and who is influenced by the Christian and also the Greek philosophical and religious values, I strongly appreciate this approach.
00:50:01.860However, what I want to underline is that we have aspects in the political system of Germany which are the result of this very specific situation historically, the Cold War, and the instrument of banning a party, which is generally a very unique instrument if you compare it to, you know, Western states.
00:50:26.140This is not something which often is even possible, which is even in the toolkit of a constitutional court, just to ban a party.
00:50:34.460It is in the toolkit of the constitutional court because of the unique circumstances of our past.
00:50:42.520And as somebody who has a legal background, I don't think that there is a realistic opportunity for the constitutional court to ban a party which, if you judge it based on objective measures, which German courts still do,
00:51:04.960has a more moderate manifesto than, you know, Rassemblement National
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