Bannon's War Room - WarRoom Battleground EP 1049： Discusses Italy And Hungary With Former CoE Parliamentary Majority Leader Luca Volontè

00:00:00.000 This is the primal scream of a dying regime.

00:00:07.700 Pray for our enemies, because we're going medieval on these people.

00:00:12.940 I got a free shot at all these networks lying about the people.

00:00:17.200 The people have had a belly full of it.

00:00:19.120 I know you don't like hearing that.

00:00:20.540 I know you try to do everything in the world to stop that, but you're not going to stop it.

00:00:23.220 It's going to happen.

00:00:24.500 And where do people like that go to share the big lie?

00:00:27.900 Mega Media.

00:00:28.800 I wish in my soul, I wish that any of these people had a conscience.

00:00:34.660 Ask yourself, what is my task and what is my purpose?

00:00:38.440 If that answer is to save my country, this country will be saved.

00:00:44.720 War Room. Here's your host, Stephen K. Band.

00:00:58.800 Thank you.

00:01:28.800 at the helm on Steve Bannon's war room.

00:01:32.840 Energetic scenes just now we're watching from Italy's Parliament.

00:01:39.520 The cheering side with the left and the socialists, the quiet stony faced side was the government

00:01:47.520 and as a lot of the press have been reporting in the last 24 hours, the government has taken

00:01:55.600 serious kicking in a key vote. This was to do with electoral reform. It's not as some

00:02:04.300 of the mainstream press were suggesting the fact that Georgia Maloney has lost a confidence

00:02:12.160 vote, though that's the way the left are presenting it. But it is still substantially illustrative

00:02:23.460 of the weakness winning through her governing coalition and i say that because

00:02:31.380 the reason the left won this vote it was on electoral reform last night the reason

00:02:36.660 that they won this vote by one vote was due to around 20 to 25

00:02:45.220 MPs from the governing party who voted with the opposition nobody knows for

00:02:54.460 sure who voted with the opposition who from the government voted with the

00:03:04.400 opposition because being an electoral reform vote this was conducted via

00:03:12.580 a secret ballot so it wasn't a roll call vote we just members will shout

00:03:19.860 present or have it wasn't a registered vote where each member each deputy is

00:03:25.980 formally identified with their position this was absolute in secret no

00:03:30.580 transparency no accountability the arguing is for electoral votes on those

00:03:36.400 things members the deputies members of Parliament need to be able to vote with

00:03:42.780 them according to their conscience and not pushed up be pushed about by party

00:03:47.920 leadership what is interesting and this is what I'll be digging into now with my

00:03:57.760 guest this evening is why members of the government would have voted with the

00:04:03.500 opposition on this vote and what they were seeking to achieve by doing so so

00:04:10.760 my guest back on the show so soon after we had him last week Luca Volontae one

00:04:16.760 of the youngest members of Parliament elected in the back in the day in 1996

00:04:22.760 for the Christian Democrats leader of the Christian Democrat group in the

00:04:28.180 lower chamber, the equivalent to the House of Representatives in Italy. Then, while still

00:04:35.660 double-hatting as a member of parliament, he led, he was the majority leader in the

00:04:41.860 Council of Europe Parliamentary Assembly for the largest centre-right bloc, the Christian

00:04:48.960 Democrat bloc, the European People's Party. This was some 15 years ago when politics was

00:04:55.840 somewhat different and christian democrats still had some christian values to them luca thanks for

00:05:01.820 coming back on the show so soon after your last visit later on in this show we'll be updating the

00:05:08.640 audience on some of the alarming news coming out of hungary but let's before we go um to hungary

00:05:17.320 Let's discuss what's happening here this week in the Italian Parliament in Monte Cittorio.

00:05:26.240 So, as I was saying in my introduction, the Western media is suggesting to somewhat,

00:05:32.700 following, I think, the leader of the opposition, Ellie Schlein's view,

00:05:36.860 that Giorgia Maloney has lost, or at least morally lost, a vote of confidence, which isn't true.

00:05:46.900 Look, nobody, by the way, tunes in to the war room to hear Ben Harnwell defending Georgia Maloney. I don't do that. But I will give her, I think, some... I don't think everything that the government is saying on this vote can be dismissed out of hands, and some of what the opposition is saying is patently ridiculous.

00:06:09.340 but let's we'll go through we've got 20 minutes to do so what happened then luca in the italian

00:06:15.260 parliament why is the italian media which is obviously left-leaning and very happy to sustain

00:06:22.620 the left-wing narrative so happy that the government lost this vote um and why did 20

00:06:30.060 to 25 members of the governing coalition secretly vote along with the opposition and what were they

00:06:37.180 hoping to achieve three facts be very clear for our public first is the merit of the amendment

00:06:49.180 the amendment of the electoral law is a provision was a provision to introduce a preferences

00:06:58.300 vote in the electoral ballot so any citizen could choose his candidate and fortunately elect or not

00:07:07.020 elect his candidate in the parliament. So a form to improve more liberty, more

00:07:15.900 freedom in the hands of every citizen vote. That was the substance of the

00:07:23.580 amendment. Luca, let me just interrupt you on that one. Are you broadly

00:07:33.300 supportive of what the government was trying to achieve then with this

00:07:38.100 electoral reform? I'm very supportive because for two reasons. The first reason is that

00:07:44.580 when one majority, any majority, any coalition could reach the limit of 42-43%

00:07:52.620 could have a bonus to govern with stability for all five years mandate. That

00:08:01.020 is very important. Second, if this amendment will be positively approved in the Senate

00:08:12.020 next week, it could introduce a new form of freedom for the citizens. The real power

00:08:20.020 of every citizen during the election is the vote. When the vote is not only for the party,

00:08:25.020 the party but also for the person I give to the citizen a huge freedom to choose the best

00:08:32.140 candidate at the best party or the best coalition that was the the meaning of the amendment and

00:08:39.740 I was very shocked for two reasons the first reason for three the first is that the

00:08:46.140 opposition coalition they call themselves the future of progress in the Italy was so

00:08:55.020 after the vote, seems to be a circus in the parliament, in the institution.

00:09:06.600 They show that they have not respect for the institution, not only for the majority of

00:09:15.080 coalition or the government.

00:09:18.960 And they reject the opposition coalition and also these 25, 30 members of the coalition

00:09:31.220 government, they reject this freedom to give this freedom to the citizens.

00:09:38.740 This is the second point that shocks very strongly, because when the question is to

00:09:46.920 give freedom for the people, we should give the people the most possible of freedom.

00:09:53.340 And third, I'm not shocked, but I was concerned about these 30 people that vote against this

00:10:01.920 freedom and this proposal of the party coalition in the majority coalition.

00:10:07.960 Because, you know, especially when you vote electoral reform, you need that your member

00:10:14.060 of the parliament should be very strong and very united around the proposal, especially

00:10:24.740 after six months of discussion inside the coalition, you know.

00:10:28.300 These people have decided to vote to join the opposition for only one reason.

00:10:34.560 They are not sure to be re-elected, and that is very ridiculous, especially when we have

00:10:41.660 a so strong government and and we hope to have a more strong government including also the national

00:10:49.340 party um let me just come back to this point then about the defectors um the secret defectors

00:10:58.860 the free shooters um would be the the i suppose a reasonable translation in italian the franchi

00:11:04.940 tiratori those secret members of the government who were voting with the opposition those members

00:11:11.580 of the government who is secretly voting with the opposition. You suggested in

00:11:20.160 your answer that they were voting in the opposite direction of giving more

00:11:26.040 freedom to the people and that's one way of looking. Well that's literally what

00:11:30.300 they were voting for if you take the legislation, if you take the amendment

00:11:33.480 on its own terms. There is another of course political consideration here and

00:11:38.040 And that is they were trying to embarrass the prime minister.

00:11:41.900 But obviously they don't want to do that publicly.

00:11:44.380 But they were trying to send either send a message to her or send a message to the public to suggest that she doesn't govern with the degree of control that she likes to think she does.

00:11:58.940 There is something, however, I just want to go through for the benefit of our largely American audience, because this can be difficult to understand.

00:12:10.640 Basic precepts of democracy in the Anglo-American sphere that really don't exist in continental Europe.

00:12:19.720 In the UK or in America, we have constituencies where people will directly elect only one representative, and they're specifically tied to territories.

00:12:41.020 in italy the proportional representation is basically list form you have according to the

00:12:48.640 region so many candidates depending on the size of the region could be 10 could be less could be

00:12:54.600 more um and and the ranking of those you vote via party um and the ranking is ordered by the party

00:13:04.040 leadership um so like you know it's horrific to the anglo-american is this the degree of control

00:13:12.020 that the party has over who who is the representative of the people it in the de facto

00:13:21.160 consequence of that is that elected representatives here on the continent are effectively representatives

00:13:27.420 of their political party machinery to the people rather than representatives of the people

00:13:33.060 to government to the legislature what the reform was now what the opposition had been asking for

00:13:41.040 for many years was to give the people a greater degree of choice and what the government had come

00:13:47.500 up with was they said okay we'll pick what's called the capitalista the the the the first

00:13:55.520 The first name at the top of the list. So that person will always get in. And what the government had tried to do, Luca, if I've understood this correctly, was to give to the people of the region the greatest say in the ranking further down.

00:14:12.900 After the capitalista down, people would have a greater discretion over the ordering of the candidates.

00:14:22.080 That would be much more similar to the election process for the European Parliament.

00:14:29.520 And lo and behold, the opposition that had been calling for years for greater democratic representation in the picking of their candidates,

00:14:39.900 candidates, when it got to a secret ballot, they voted this down. And Luca, my suspicion is

00:14:45.800 they deliberately voted down a reform that would have created, it wouldn't have made the system

00:14:55.740 perfect, but it would have made it a lot better than it is at the moment. And they voted that down

00:15:00.620 to score some petty political points and to humiliate Georgia Maloney. And as I say,

00:15:07.700 anyone who watches me on the show i will criticize her any day of the week because i think she's

00:15:12.200 largely performative um and hasn't been as effectual as a lot of people had hoped

00:15:18.120 when they supported her five years ago but on this issue as in on the referendum earlier on

00:15:26.860 this year she was actually doing something put a lot of political credibility and authority on the

00:15:32.120 line. This is the second time she's lost a key vote this year. She put a credibility on the line

00:15:40.020 to achieve something good and it didn't work out for her. Lucas Dunbar, take your interpretation

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00:18:02.500 Alright, back with Luca Volante. So Luca, I was asking you why members of the government, and we know, because we know what the parliamentary arithmetic is, we know the opposition didn't have that many votes, and so we know for a fact that members of the government, governing coalition, because there were three parties in the governing coalition, we know that some of them would have voted secretly, using the cover of secrecy.

00:18:29.920 to give Georgia Maloney a slap.

00:18:38.540 Where does the government go right now?

00:18:41.580 Because the leader of the opposition,

00:18:43.200 Ilya Schlein,

00:18:45.520 has said that the government,

00:18:47.920 Georgia Maloney needs to resign as Prime Minister

00:18:50.180 and there need to be fresh elections.

00:18:52.180 So here's the thing.

00:18:53.120 She's basically suggesting that the vote last night

00:18:55.580 was some kind of no-confidence vote.

00:18:59.920 It wasn't a no-confidence. The opposition has perfect power to table no-confidence votes and say this vote's going to be a no-confidence vote. They just need to get the minimum, put it 20 MPs together and do that. Likewise, the government can say this is a confidence vote, and therefore if they lose it, the government will tender its resignation to President Mattarella.

00:19:24.200 Neither side did that. Probably Luka, because neither side knew how it was going to go, and neither wanted to give the ammunition to the other side.

00:19:34.640 But my view on this is that if the opposition really thought that, and you can see them there, absolutely delighted with that victory.

00:19:43.720 um my view is that if elie schlein really thought that the government no longer had

00:19:52.380 a stable majority she would table a no confidence measure over the next few days in the government

00:20:00.360 i don't think she will do that because she knows that the votes won't be there

00:20:03.600 on a no confidence vote so the people the government members of the government who

00:20:07.860 crossed the floor and voted secretly because it's all done by button by electronically there aren't

00:20:13.620 any voting lobby lobbies there for these secret votes so no one knows who they are um so my view

00:20:19.920 is if the government if the opposition really thought the government was in jeopardy they

00:20:24.300 would table a no confidence vote right yeah yeah for sure but they they are very afraid to present

00:20:30.500 a no confidence vote in the chamber of the deputy or sna because they're quite sure that could lost

00:20:36.560 Unfortunately, also this afternoon, the proposal, the amendment proposed by the group of Futuro

00:20:45.840 Nazionale from Banaci, totally proportional without saving the top in the list, the first

00:20:53.920 in the list, was rejected, was voted in favor by Fratelli d'Italia group and part of the

00:21:02.320 and rejected by the opposition of Socialists and Liberals, plus Forza Italia and Lega Nord.

00:21:13.940 And that could be key to interpret from where the people voted with the left coalition yesterday

00:21:28.680 against the amendment of the government that introduced for the first time the preferences

00:21:35.220 in the list of electoral votes.

00:21:38.860 So probably some people from Lega Nord and Forza Italia, where yesterday the secret ballot

00:21:46.000 have voted with the opposition, and today more clearly helped the opposition to reject

00:21:56.600 the proportional amendment tabled by the financial loop.

00:22:04.740 So do you think there's any possibility that this amendment,

00:22:08.420 because the government is going to press on with the electoral reform,

00:22:11.760 do you think there's any possibility that in one way or another,

00:22:14.600 perhaps via the Senate, they might actually get this electoral reform into law?

00:22:21.640 The president of the Senate today, just a few minutes ago,

00:22:25.580 affirmed that he's ready to accept the same amendment, proportional amendment, with preferences

00:22:35.740 in the Senate. So we'll see what could happen. Probably also the vote of yesterday and today

00:22:43.540 could accelerate a political clarification inside the majority

00:22:53.280 and among the leader of the majority parties.

00:22:58.640 And we hope so, not because we are a priori in favor of this coalition,

00:23:07.720 but because we want to preserve the liberty as much as possible,

00:23:15.840 freedom of the citizens during their power of vote during the election.

00:23:22.320 Let me ask you this because we've got about three minutes left.

00:23:25.560 Two questions I want to ask you in three minutes, okay?

00:23:27.980 First question, do you agree that in Italy, in the Italian Parliament,

00:23:33.800 as a former member of parliament for some 20 years experience do you agree that some votes

00:23:41.960 should be such as this should be held on a secret vote basis and the second question

00:23:49.880 is what conclusions do you draw the by the fact that the italian press and the international press

00:23:57.480 almost universally spun the vote to suggest that georgia maloney and her government are in trouble

00:24:05.720 first answer i totally agree about the secret vote but only for the cautious

00:24:12.440 vote on example uh on abortion or on uh artificial appropriation or euthanasia law

00:24:21.400 something that touches directly in conscience of any member of the parliament i think that

00:24:28.040 personally this is my strong commission from from the uh commission that electoral law is not

00:24:35.800 one of these cases of secret ballot vote second uh i have only uh confirmed a confirmation that

00:24:44.440 All the large part of the Western media, including Italy, are governed by the same globalist

00:24:53.020 left and liberal opinion makers and financial powers.

00:24:59.860 They hate a conservative coalition or a patriot coalition.

00:25:06.060 We have a look.

00:25:07.060 We had a look some months ago in Hungary.

00:25:11.760 are watching the same situation here in italy and probably we will see the same if finance will win

00:25:19.840 the uk election or barbella and le pen will win next year in france they hate the conservative

00:25:27.600 and patriots because they hate the christian values and the identity of christian nations

00:25:35.200 so first conclusion going from the second part and then coming to the first part

00:25:41.200 the second part is that your conclusion because of the the media bias is that they hate

00:25:49.120 basically any conservative center-right coalition basically anything that's not communist they hate

00:25:56.240 even the government uh the actual government today in italy which is by no means perfect

00:26:02.800 and not remotely far-right it's it's center-right if not just overtly centrist the um just the just

00:26:10.400 the mere fact that it's called a right-wing government it is enough to attract the the

00:26:16.560 media's unthinking blanket condemnation even on something on an issue that the left might have

00:26:25.200 supposedly uh wanted to support such as an issue of um power to the people

00:26:31.760 coming to the first part i tell you what we'll hold it on luca till after the break we'll finish

00:26:37.280 this on italy and then we'll head over to find out just how the new government of peter magia

00:26:44.320 in in hungary is performing a purge of the urbanites from the political establishment

00:26:54.360 including the very president of the republic himself stand by back in two minutes

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00:31:52.480 Welcome back.

00:31:53.660 Luca, I just want to finish this point because there's a lesson here.

00:31:58.520 And that is, I think Americans need to understand

00:32:03.640 that when they're talking about their European allies as being democracies,

00:32:09.740 Even the advanced, the so-called advanced established democracies in Europe are only barely democracies.

00:32:19.020 Here's a good example of that.

00:32:20.880 You're just talking now about how confidence votes work in the Italian parliament.

00:32:30.540 And that is that the secret vote is given to issues of conscience.

00:32:34.780 In the UK, conscience votes are where the political parties will give the members a free vote

00:32:47.440 They won't be whipped, they can vote however they want

00:32:50.940 Of course, the thing is, every vote in the House of Commons is recorded by a member of Parliament

00:32:58.080 So you know exactly how each member voted, even on conscience votes

00:33:03.280 I don't know what the technical procedure is for conscience votes in the US Congress, but that's how it is in the UK.

00:33:13.860 Some votes, like on abortion, for example, you mentioned that.

00:33:16.600 That will be a conscience vote, and the government and the opposition, they won't whip members of parliament.

00:33:23.080 They'll say you can vote how you want on this.

00:33:24.460 But you always know the public, the voting public, always gets to know how their representatives vote so that they can then hold them to account.

00:33:34.400 In Italy, conscience votes are secret.

00:33:40.000 So it's the very opposite.

00:33:41.780 They're given the room to vote without the party machinery being able to tell them what to do.

00:33:47.620 But there's no accountability to the people.

00:33:51.000 I give way because I know you want to say something on this and then we'll move on to Hungary.

00:33:54.240 But here's the point, both in the Italian system and in Hungary, and this is why I say Americans need to know this about their European democratic allies, both the President of the Republic in Italy and the President of the Republic in Hungary aren't elected by the people.

00:34:14.400 They're elected effectively by the parliament totally in Hungary, in Italy by the parliament and with the representatives of the regions.

00:34:23.680 But it's not a vote to the people, which is horrific.

00:34:28.520 I think Americans would hear that and they'd be absolutely horrified.

00:34:31.660 Just give me 30 seconds, a minute on your experience of two decade long experience of serving in parliament.

00:34:39.940 and whether you think that is really the best way for an advanced, mature democracy

00:34:47.600 to give members of parliament conscience votes to have them secret.

00:34:55.280 I totally agree with you, Le.

00:34:57.220 The experience that you just talked about is the best experience

00:35:04.520 because, you know, I think especially when a member of the parliament

00:35:08.820 is facing a very crucial argument where his conscience is particularly touched by the

00:35:18.060 argument or by some proposal of law, he should show his character.

00:35:26.840 And it's the only way to show particularly and precisely in which values he believes.

00:35:35.600 You know, and that's the reason because I always, I never asked in my political career in the Italian parliament when I was chairman of the Christian Democratic Group or in the Council of Europe, I never asked for having a secret ballot.

00:35:55.800 because I'm very sure that anyone should present himself transparently with the electors

00:36:04.920 and also take his responsibility to say, I believe in these values.

00:36:09.900 I could not vote this proposal of law.

00:36:13.620 Also, if I'm risking to be not re-elected in the same party where I was elected before.

00:36:22.080 Because, if not, members of the parliament are only employed, or simply employed, of

00:36:31.080 the chairman of the party without any responsibility, and in the end, also democracy is, in this

00:36:38.840 way, is degradating and losing any appeal to the citizens to participate and to be represented

00:36:47.620 by someone that has a strong character, you know?

00:36:52.080 Luca, you know, listening to you talking here and explaining this, it comes to my mind, and I make this point, because there are people in the UK, and there are some people, less, I think, in the United States, that would like to move from the first past, the post system, to the proportional representation system.

00:37:13.460 If you have a proportional representation system, which I don't support, and this is the consequence of that, and the way that the conscience vote is handled, the way that a conscience vote is handled is illustrative, I think, of the defects of proportional representation, which give effectively what in the first past the post is the power of accountability to the people, takes it from the people and gives it to the party machinery.

00:37:42.940 and this is a very clear distinction of how that works out because in the italian system

00:37:49.580 the conscience vote is dead secret and this is what i realized as i was listening to you talk

00:37:55.440 on this now right the vote is secret because the conscience vote in italy is to give you

00:38:03.980 the member of parliament discretion to vote according to their conscience free from the

00:38:10.380 party machinery right that is how the conscience vote is it's to give you the the freedom to

00:38:16.580 maneuver free from the party machinery that controls where you will be on the list at election

00:38:21.800 time the conscience vote concept in in the uk is that it frees the the the the representative

00:38:32.220 from the party machinery um allows them to vote according to their conscience but always

00:38:39.680 in a way that is accountable to the people

00:38:42.760 before whom they have to respond.

00:38:46.680 And that's a very important difference, right?

00:38:49.280 And that, I think, is a fundamental point.

00:38:51.220 When you hear people agitating

00:38:54.780 to move to proportional representation,

00:38:58.000 it's really because the people are trying to curry favour

00:39:01.500 with party machinery, party leadership,

00:39:04.480 because they will be the primary beneficiaries of such a change.

00:39:12.220 Luca, I'm going to ask you now,

00:39:13.920 I'm going to give a quick shout out once again to our show sponsor.

00:39:16.680 Then I'm going to ask you again,

00:39:19.960 because I know you worked very closely

00:39:21.480 when you were in the Council of Europe Parliamentary Assembly

00:39:24.000 with the Hungarians.

00:39:25.880 In fact, I know that you went over to support Viktor Orban

00:39:29.720 in his election campaign a couple of months ago.

00:39:33.500 I know you have a very strong relationship with Fidesz.

00:39:35.840 I'm going to ask you for your take now on the developments in Hungary

00:39:39.060 from when we covered this that went out earlier on this week.

00:39:44.020 I'll be back to you in a moment, Luca.

00:39:45.660 I mentioned the Birch Gold deal earlier on in the show.

00:39:49.700 I'll give it out to you again.

00:39:51.400 You really need to phone Philip Patrick.

00:39:54.380 Pick his brains right now because gold is, as I say,

00:39:57.600 it's fallen from $4,500 to $4,000 per ounce.

00:40:01.960 very advantageous rate to buy if you buy gold you normally buy to stay in

00:40:06.580 according you know it's gonna go up it's gonna go down it's gonna go down but

00:40:09.940 the long-term trend is up so you buy gold and the idea is that you just stay

00:40:14.500 there for the long term because it will it will work its way up that being the

00:40:19.600 case what people who want to buy gold long-term want to do is buy it when it's

00:40:23.680 at a momentary dip and that is exactly what the situation is right now as I

00:40:28.540 I say it's down from $4,500 down to $4,000 at the moment.

00:40:33.580 So now is a perfect time to buy, to make a long-term investment.

00:40:38.600 Speak to Philip Patrick. He's the expert on this.

00:40:42.480 Also ask him about the book that he and Steve Bannon have produced,

00:40:47.760 explaining over many chapters that Steve's been writing over the last couple of years

00:40:53.160 exactly what the situation is.

00:40:54.380 text bannon to 989898 especially if you're starting to get the the FOMO shivers the fear

00:41:04.300 of missing out and you want to you want to get in on the next long term price hike all right

00:41:11.180 Luca Volontae let's go and discuss now and then the final 10 minutes of the show what's been

00:41:16.780 happening in Hungary. This week, early this week, the government, led by Peter Magyar,

00:41:24.020 I'll say Magyar, I think the Hungarians pronounce it Magyar, but it's written Magyar. Magyar

00:41:31.220 is the English way of pronouncing the word. His government came in with massive support

00:41:39.240 from the European Union behind the scenes. Some people were suggesting even that Ursula

00:41:46.320 von der Leyen via various funding streams had found a way to put her thumb on the scale in

00:41:53.380 favour of Peter Maggia. And he won big. Viktor Orban had served 16 continuous years as prime

00:42:04.400 minister. And I personally think he was tempting electoral gravity somewhat in going for, I think

00:42:12.400 was a fifth term but put that aside uh peter maggio got a substantial majority over two-thirds

00:42:21.360 majority i think he's got like 140 or so um mps out of 200 so he has a constitution busting

00:42:30.620 majority and he's using it so he's brought in a package in a single amendment a constitutional

00:42:37.600 amendment is brought in this package limiting parliamentary terms to three consecutive terms

00:42:44.140 and it's backdated now so anyone in parliament and who's already for whom this is the third or

00:42:50.060 more term they will no longer be eligible to stand at the next election he's reduced the retirement

00:42:56.580 ages of judges down to 70. Now you can argue about those things on their merits I think there's an

00:43:06.280 argument in favor of those six the problem is is that these things are

00:43:09.740 being pushed right now not so much to even a system but because the

00:43:15.260 government for political reasons is running a massive platform of de-orbanification

00:43:22.240 I think it would be to coin the word purging anyone in government that was

00:43:28.280 put there by Viktor Orban including the president of the Republic who was brought

00:43:33.320 in um in 2024 i think after katerin novak um yeah a great family hero stood down so he's and

00:43:42.520 and to add insult to injury on this constitutional amendment luca volonté the um there is the the

00:43:51.000 the effectively the removal of the president himself now the president after the vote this

00:43:56.280 week in parliament which i think was two days ago um has five days to sign this constitutional

00:44:03.820 amendment the constitution says he shall sign this into law um and if he doesn't they're going

00:44:09.540 to remove him and if he does they're going to remove him anyway because they said effectively

00:44:13.600 that he was too orban sympathetic um they haven't got any real high crimes or misdemeanors against

00:44:20.600 him but they've just said he was too sympathetic to Orban and so they're going to remove him

00:44:26.940 and astonishing state affairs Lucas so my question to you is because I know that you follow this and

00:44:31.640 you write on this what's happening quite a lot I think you're finding this probably the biggest

00:44:38.000 scandalous thing taking place in the European Union right now let me before I hand over the

00:44:43.420 microphone to you, let me frame the question like this. Ursula von der Leyen, the EU Politburo

00:44:52.260 chief, successfully withheld many billions of euros of funding to Viktor Orban because

00:44:59.380 they said of his politicisation of the judiciary and the institutions in Hungary. Now that

00:45:08.520 Peter Maguire is doing exactly the same thing and using the laws, by the way, that Victor

00:45:15.680 Orban had passed in order to achieve those ends. Peter Maguire has not created any, everything

00:45:23.320 he's doing right now is constitutional via the laws. I think the basic law passed in

00:45:29.900 2010 and the constitutional amendment in 2013. It was all passed by Victor Orban. But when

00:45:35.700 If Viktor Orban used these laws, he was anti-democratic and needed Hungary's voice suppressing in the European Union.

00:45:46.540 When Peter Magyar does exactly the same thing, silence from Bustos.

00:45:53.720 I don't understand how that works.

00:45:55.180 It might have something to do with the fact that Peter Magyar is a lot more open to the migrants and a lot more open to Ukraine than Viktor Orban.

00:46:04.060 that you're the expert that's for sure for Ukraine because they may be the objection

00:46:15.060 for incrementing the discussion between European Union and Ukraine to include Ukraine in the

00:46:23.460 European Union in the next three, four, five years.

00:46:27.960 The data was proposed by Orban for the last five years.

00:46:38.460 No discussion, real discussion was done about this inclusion of Ukraine in the European

00:46:45.960 Union.

00:46:46.960 That was the first price that Magyar paid to the European Union to receive this 10 billion

00:46:55.960 that he received in the coming days and was approved last week.

00:47:01.960 But I totally agree with you.

00:47:04.960 I'm shocking as you, like you, because this incredible silence that the European Union

00:47:15.840 has decided to approach the so-called constitutional reform by Peter Mayer majority, that in fact

00:47:32.160 are not only constitutional reform are a reform in the constitution to give the peter maria

00:47:39.120 government the power to erase any institutional power independent institutional power in the

00:47:50.720 hungary that because he won't control not only the executive power and the legislative power

00:47:59.200 but also the judicial power because in the amendment 17 there is also a rule to

00:48:09.200 appoint a new president of the constitutional court on one hand and on the other hand

00:48:15.600 the amendment to appoint a new uh to oblige to resign the president of the republic to

00:48:22.400 appoint a new President of the Republic. But there could be some problems because in the case the

00:48:32.480 President of the Republic of Hungary, Suryok, decided in the next five days not to sign the

00:48:43.520 approval of the law. It's true that the Parliament, the majority of the Parliament, could

00:48:49.760 introduce the impeachment of the President, but the impeachment of the President or Republic

00:48:56.760 should refer the impeachment directly to the Constitutional Court.

00:49:01.760 And this time, the Constitutional Court is composed by the majority of the judges appointed

00:49:07.760 by the previous parliament, not only the last five years' parliament, but the last 15 years'

00:49:14.760 and probably the nowadays constitutional court could reject impeachment so it's not so easy

00:49:23.860 for baguier to push this coup d'etat but these difficulties don't change the scandalous

00:49:34.480 scandalous silence of the european union right because what's what's good for the goose is good

00:49:41.460 for the gander if if if what victor orban was doing was undemocratic then the european union

00:49:47.660 if it's to have any coherence or consistency has to say exactly the same thing the problem is is

00:49:54.220 that the magyar government is a lot more open to brussels and brussels diktats than victor orban

00:50:00.560 so we get to see just how lacking in all political principle the the european union actually is even

00:50:07.880 Even as it claims the moral authority to be an arbiter on these things, we see that it is absolutely, totally morally compromised.

00:50:18.080 Now, just because I know we've got like two minutes left, I just want to say this.

00:50:21.220 I've been looking into this quite a lot, like you have.

00:50:25.000 And I don't think, I mean, I think if President Suleok were to refer this to the Constitutional Court,

00:50:33.720 I think the Constitutional Court, even though, as you were saying, has its own problems now because of the government.

00:50:43.560 I think those would be questions, if it were able to block the amendment, it would be on procedural grounds.

00:50:50.380 But looking at this, I actually think that Magyar has played his cards quite well.

00:50:55.300 I don't see that what he's doing is being particularly unconstitutional.

00:51:00.600 where I don't agree with the government

00:51:03.760 is that I don't think that they should be removing

00:51:05.900 the President of the Republic

00:51:07.740 which is simply an act of spite

00:51:09.640 it's pretty much exactly how the Democrats

00:51:11.520 tried to impeach

00:51:12.800 Donald Trump because they said

00:51:15.380 we've got the arithmetic

00:51:17.180 we've got the numbers in the House of Representatives

00:51:20.140 to do this so we'll do it

00:51:21.680 we'll decide

00:51:22.720 what's a high crime and misdemeanor

00:51:25.800 ourselves and it seems to me

00:51:27.740 that the Magyar government is doing

00:51:29.740 exactly the same things what nancy pelosi did 10 years ago in um in america my my reservation my

00:51:38.440 problem is here with the european union that really made governing very difficult for victor

00:51:44.240 orban and they're just saying absolutely nothing when his successor is doing the same thing look

00:51:49.140 you are the one of the world's experts on this you've been in parliament for 20 years a great

00:51:53.840 commentator uh on these things very very quickly where on social media on extra people go to keep

00:51:59.400 up with your analysis thank you very much man for sure we hope that

00:52:06.680 i'll give it i'll give it myself you're you're on um x in fact i i i don't have it luca volunteer

00:52:15.740 there we go thanks to will at real america's voice for holding the show together steve back

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Bannon's War Room - July 16, 2026

WarRoom Battleground EP 1049： Discusses Italy And Hungary With Former CoE Parliamentary Majority Leader Luca Volontè

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