WarRoom Battleground EP 348： Nevada RINO's Vote To Stop Hand Counting Of Ballots
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Summary
On today's show, we have Gunny Borelli on the show to talk about the problems with Arizona's election system and why we need to go back to paper ballots in order to have a fair and free election in Arizona.
Transcript
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This is what you're fighting for. I mean, every day you're out there. What they're doing is
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blowing people off. If you continue to look the other way and shut up, then the oppressors,
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the authoritarians get total control and total power because this is just like in Arizona.
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This is just like in Georgia. It's another element that backs them into a quarter and
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shows their lies and misrepresentations. This is why this audience is going to have to get engaged.
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As we've told you, this is the fight. All this nonsense, all this spin, they can't handle the
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truth. War Room Battleground. Here's your host, Stephen K. Bannon. Okay. We're so packed today,
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Friday, 4 August, Year of Alert 2023. Thank you for keeping it steady on the dial for the fourth
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hour of the War Room today, the late afternoon, early evening show. We're going to start with
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too much to do to even do a cold open. I got Gunny Sonny Borelli. Gunny Borelli, I want to go back.
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You guys put out some proclamation or some sort of alert from senators. I think it was a committee
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or it was you, Senator Rogers, others. But then just a couple of days ago, a reason we're going to
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have you on here, Mojave County, the great folks over Mojave County, I think the supervisors voted
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against all paper ballots and they had two reasons. First off was cost. They said, hey, we're broke.
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It's going to cost us a million dollars. We can't do it. But they also mentioned the efficiency
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of it. Gunny Borelli, can you walk us through exactly what's happening in Arizona? Because
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you've seen over the last couple of days, we don't have an option. And Caroline Wren's going
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to be here in a second. We don't have an option. We have to win in 2024. So what's going on with
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paper ballots hand count in Arizona, sir? Oh, first off, we need to make sure that we have free and
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fair elections, period. That it's not compromised by a machine that nobody has any kind of oversight
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over. Right. The Senate passed a Senate concurrent resolution 1037, which actually outlined all the
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irregularities that we found over the last three years and prior to the last, prior to that, all
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the problems with electronic voting systems. You know, Secretary of Homeland Security has said that
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in 2017, elections are part of critical infrastructure and therefore they should have the same standards
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for cybersecurity of that of our weapon systems. So we passed that resolution out of the Senate and
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the House concurring and it got transmitted to the Secretary of State's office. And that's telling,
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you know what, we wanted to expose this stuff to show the counties that they have cover and cause
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and reason to be able to take those electronic voting systems and not use them because they're
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not mandated to be used by law. So therefore, if they're not mandated to be used by law, you can do
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a 100% hand count of paper ballots. Right. Unfortunately, Mojave County supervisors voted against
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to do a hand count of a paper ballots because the election director, a county employee staff came up
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with a plan that was so cumbersome that obviously I would have been saying, no, you can't use that
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system because that system is cumbersome. He took seven people to do 850 ballots. It took them forever
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and it was mistakes. You're right. I watched him do this. He gave us a demonstration. So that's
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ridiculous because you're going to have mistakes when you go down an entire ballot. I propose that
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you do a team, separate teams for separate races, and you do it that way. And of course,
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he said, it's going to take 245 or 250 people to do that. I said, well, that's not a problem.
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I've already got 300 people that literally signed up within a matter of a week, signed up to volunteer,
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and we just started. So to come up with these roadblocks and speed bumps and all these other
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excuses to not do it. Yeah, look, you know, I was in the Marines and when we heard the word can't,
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can't means won't. And that's exactly what the election director wanted to do was he didn't want
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to do it. So he wanted to come up with a, you know, a very egregious, you know, difficult thing
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to do and to obviously give all the reasons to vote no. And of course, one of the supervisors are
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concerned about the cost because they would have to rent the county fairgrounds to do this,
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which is ridiculous. Why does the county have to rent the county facility that they already own?
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So, I mean, it was all garbage. It was all BS. At the end of it all, no matter what, no matter how
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they spin it, okay, what we have here is literally elected officials at the county level have surrendered
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their authority to unelected staff employees to protect a third party vendor that has zero oversight.
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A hand count paper ballot gives 100% transparency of the election. Actually, it might even reduce the
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challenges on recounts because we're talking five people or seven people per team. Have you had to
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unanimously agree that candidate A got a vote? Pure and simple. So the only thing that is transparent here
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is they don't want transparency, pure and simple. But the most, like I said, the most egregious offense
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is an elected official by the people to protect the people and serve the people, not serve the county
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staff or employees or whatever that apparatus is. Same thing on the city level. You know, and I see this
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all the time in government where the elected officials just go along with whatever the staff says.
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Well, you know what? We call that staff infection. You know, if you've got good staff, it's one thing,
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you know, to listen to them. But, you know, the mindset should have been with come up with a plan
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that can be done working with party officials, volunteers that will alleviate all the logistical
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needs and problems that may arise. And the reason why I love to go for Mojave County first was
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our election department is, you know, our election director, he's a very diligent guy. He's been
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there for a long time, got a lot of expertise, very experienced. There's a guy I can trust that's
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going to make sure that he's going to supervise it and make sure it gets done properly. So I have full
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faith and trust and confidence in Mr. Temper, but I wanted him to use his expertise to actually
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sort of, to actually supervise a process that would make sure that everything is done properly
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because he's got that expertise. He's got 20 years of experience here in Mojave County,
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for God's sake. So, you know, unfortunately, at the end of the day, that's exactly what it is.
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The most egregious violation of an elected official is surrendering their authority to
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unelected bureaucrats to protect a third party vendor because it's not mandated to be used.
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These machines are not mandated by law to be used as a, as a primary source. It may use,
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it's not shall be used. So if you're not mandated to use the machines of any sort, okay, how else
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would you do it? See, what we're relying here on is making sure that the electricity is staying on
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to make sure that they're running our elections. But to surrender your authority to a third party
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vendor that has zero oversight is completely off the charts, major offensive to anybody.
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Republican, Democrat, independent, I don't care. Bottom line is that you surrendered your authority
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that we've given you to be able to do to protect the people, not protect the government staff
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or that apparatus. You're here to represent the people.
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The Democrats have been coming after me and Senator Rogers and myself, along with their mainstream media
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propaganda partners attacking the hell out of us. Well, it just makes me laugh because, wow,
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here's somebody that, oh, the media wants transparency, but yet they don't want transparency
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on, on the elections. The elections don't belong to us elected officials. They belong to the people.
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And the call to action is they need to step up, go to their county elected officials and demand to go
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to hand count paper ballot, pure and simple. But you know what? They just don't need to demand it.
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They need to step up and volunteer and do it for free, for free, for free. I call on several veterans.
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Look, you had to pick up a rifle. Guess what? All you got to do now is pick up a pen and mark.
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Candidate A gets a tick mark. Candidate B gets a tick mark. Pure and simple.
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You do the hand count paper ballot, pure and simple.
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Um, here's what you got to help me out with. Uh, the, the whole world is watching Arizona.
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The whole world is watching, uh, Mojave County. The, um, you've got the 2020 election start.
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The big steal started in Arizona on global television with Fox and 2022 carry like
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and both Trump and carry Lake are kind of global figures. What's going to happen?
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I mean, it can Mojave County be on one. If you can't get it done in Mojave County,
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how are you ever going to get it done in the rest of the state, places like Phoenix and Tucson?
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Well, to that point, uh, Senator Rogers and myself, we've already gone to Gila County,
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spoke to their board of supervisors, laid out all the evidence and everything and, uh,
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show them what they can do. And then matter of fact, Wednesday, we went to Pinal County.
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Next week, we're going to another County. So we're doing the road show on this
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And we're trying to get this in front of every County supervisor. We can, uh, once again,
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the media is attacking us. I mean, they're literally trolling us. I mean, it wasn't,
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wasn't very long after we did the presentation of Pinal County was already in the cap times yellow
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sheet. Now they're bashing us in the Arizona mirror, which is really not even a newspaper.
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They're an online, uh, news source. It's actually backed by a nonprofit back East in the Carolina.
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So, you know, this is, you know, when we're talking fake news, this is the mainstream media
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propaganda partners. So, and the Democrats using it. And Adrian Fontes, the secretary of state
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is already laid out. He's throwing the gauntlet down at any County that wants to oppose, uh, um,
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you know, the electronic voting systems. They're going to get challenged in suiting court. Well,
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that's what bullies do. I'm just trying to empower that the County supervisors have the authority
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to do this and they have to have the courage to do this. Now, you know, I've been told that the,
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uh, on the judiciary side of things where, uh, you know, it's been put out there that any lawyer
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that steps up to challenge any elections is going to be, uh, sued and sanctioned and disbarred. And
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so, I mean, if that isn't fascism and tyranny, I don't know what is. It's ridiculous. People need to
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step up. Well, sure. But it's sure it's short. It's sure it's fascism. So give me the call to
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action. What are people in Arizona supposed to do? And what, what is this vast audience
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throughout the United States? What, what, what do you want people to do? Because we,
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we got to reverse this. We got to, if you don't get these machines out in, uh, Arizona,
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you're not going to have a free and fair election. So how, how can, how should we do it?
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You know, every cybersecurity computer person that I've known that I've met, and these are experts.
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They've all said that, you know what, just because it goes scan through a machine, it
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gets in the computer. You have, don't know how it actually got scanned. You know, the
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vote was, you know, counted as cast. Even the Democrats in the 2020 Democratic Party
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platform said, you know, they demand that every, every opportunity should be to, to
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afford the voter that every vote is, is cast and counted, uh, as, as cast. Well, you
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don't know to verify, you can't verify that in a computer. So every computer expert
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says that's, you know, that these things are not reliable and we need to go back to
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hand count paper ballots. So, and even Kamala Harris said it when she was a senator, uh,
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in a Senate hearing, when she was a senator that says, oh my God, right in front of me
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and staff, they hacked into these machines. We need to go back to paper ballot, hand count.
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This is a no brainer. So the call to action is this contact your county board of supervisors
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and demand that they go to a hand count paper ballot. Here's another thing from Miracopa
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County. Miracopa County is scheduled to renew their contract with Dominion in March, April
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timeframe. So we need to, to demand that. Save the money. Don't renew the contract. The
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systems are, have flaws in it. You want to restore confidence in the elections? Go back
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to the local precinct and count paper ballots. If they want to do a ballot on demand, guess
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what? It doesn't matter if it's, if it's doesn't, if it's a printed off on a different
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size is still a paper ballot and it can be counted. And that is the receipt of an actual
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vote. Not a data is, is Mojave Mojave. Mojave people know that you don't have to make the argument
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for this audience about paper ballots. Can Mojave County be reversed? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
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It can. It can be. How would you recommend? How'd you recommend people do that? People need
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to contact all their boards, every county supervisor in Mojave County. They need to call
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Gila County, Pima County, Pinal County. They need to call every county in Arizona. And they
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need to convince and tell these, tell their boards of supervisors, this is what you're
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supposed to be doing in representing us, the people. This is what we want. We want to
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make sure we want to restore confidence in the elections. And guess what? This might even
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alleviate the problems of recounts because the recount is, is because of the recount of
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the machine, say the data that's in a machine. You got to go back to a paper ballot. If you
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have a 100% paper ballot hand count, and if you want to run it through a tabulator to make
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sure the numbers are right, go for it. Go for it. We want to make sure it's right. Regardless
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of who wins or who loses, the people demand total transparency. They're entitled to it.
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It's their birthright. That ballot is their currency as an American citizen. And when it
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comes to cost, give me a break. That money's been paid for by blood and treasure of our
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Gunny Braley, where do people go to find out more about you at your website and social media?
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I really don't go much on social media. I'm on Instagram. I'm on Twitter. I don't really
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interact with a lot of people. I'll post something every now and then. But I'm just staying focused
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on this because I don't need the distractions. People need to- bottom line is this. They
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need to contact their county board of supervisors because they have the authority to do this.
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They don't have to be told. The legislature doesn't need to enforce this and force it on
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them. They have the authority. That's the big myth that everybody's been perpetrating
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by the Democrats and the mainstream media and the propaganda partners that this can't
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be done. Can't means won't. They have the authority to do this. You know, so the machines
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are not mandated by law to be used in the first place. If you can't use it, if you're not
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mandated to use it, how else would you count the ballots? Simple as that. And people, if
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you get in the ballot system, don't wait to the last minute to drop your ballot off at
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the ballot box. Take it during an early voting and get in the system to make sure your signature
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is counted, your signature is verified, and your vote is cast, and it's counted as cast,
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and to make sure that nobody else voted in your place because there are ghost voters out
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there, we believe. And if somebody says that, yeah, sorry, you already voted. Well, wait a
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minute. Call the county sheriff and demand to open up an investigation because that's possible
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Senator Borelli, thank you very much. The impassioned fight for a paper ballot, one day, game day
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voting, and also hand counted. Thank you, sir. Appreciate it.
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Thank you, brother. Caroline Wren, you see the fight before us, right? You got the state parties
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that are broke. The local parties are broke. The donors have cut it off. You got, you know, people
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are at each other's throats. Do you ballot harvest? Do you go to the paper ballots? Your thoughts?
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Yeah, it's difficult, but I think we need a all of the above approach to it, right? We need to focus
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on election integrity. We need to focus on registering voters. We need to focus on turning
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them out, and if that means showing up on election day, great. If you want to be voting early,
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great. If you want to vote by mail, you know, Republicans used to have confidence in that
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system. I understand why people don't, but there are people who are, you know, older and who like
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that as an option. We just, we need all of the above approach right now to get this done, and the
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most important thing right now, I would say, is voter registration. Now is the time to be increasing
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the voter registration. That can be done through C3s or C4s or Super PACs or anything else, but there's a lot
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of priorities that need to be funded right now, and I'm hearing a lot from donors that they're a
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little bit lost as to what they should be focusing on. Well, how can they be lost? I mean, they know
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the building blocks we have to do. First off, we have to clean up the voter rolls. We have to
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de-register the dead and the non-citizens, the people who don't live there anymore, right? So make
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sure that's only legitimate balance. So we got to de-register the non-real voters so they just can't
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do the same scam they did before, plus register. But how can the donors be lost? This is not
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astrophysics, is it? Well, I mean, you can't donate to clean up the voter rolls right now.
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The problem we have is Nevada, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Arizona, Wisconsin, Georgia. Those
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are the only six states, as far as 2024 is concerned, that matter, and it's also overlapping
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with several Senate races. Now, in all the states, with the exception of Georgia, we have a Democrat
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governor, Democrat legislatures. In Arizona, you have a Republican legislature, but the
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governor won't sign any legislation you pass. You have Democrat AGs and Democrat secretaries
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of state. So a donor or grassroots activist can't just lean up the voter rolls. This is
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done through the people that we elect to these offices. And so this is why we have an issue.
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And until we can get Republicans into office, it is one thing to say, okay, we're going to
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get all paper ballots and clean up our voter rolls. But you can't do that. That is through
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the Secretary of State's office. And so, you know, you can't do that in Arizona, Pennsylvania,
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in these states. And so until then, we have to play the game the Democrats are playing and
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we need to, you know, register and turn out an overwhelming amount of people to try to
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just bombard the system because I don't, there's not another answer there. And so from funding
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priorities, it's not like where you can't just go fund some like James Bond operations to
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go clean up voter rolls. Like we have to look towards other ways and actually do things
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Uh, talk to me about these, uh, you've had the precinct strategy to take over a number
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of these parties. Have the donors cut them off? I mean, why do we have problems? Particularly,
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I think there's huge highlights and problems in, uh, in Michigan and, uh, and I believe Arizona
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to start off with, but there's problems in Minnesota and a couple of more is where, where the grassroots
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has actually gotten active. The business community and the, in the, in the elite donors have
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Yeah. And I think sometimes there are some donors I'm finding are very interested, but
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they are, they don't really know where to give. And where the Democrats were very smart
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is that, uh, I'd like to walk through for a second here, the different ways that you
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can fund. So there are nonprofits, 501c3s are tax deductible. And then you have 501c4s,
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which are not tax deductible, but they can accept unlimited money and it's not disclosed and it
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can be used for political activity. And then you have super PACs, which are called 527s.
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They can take unlimited money. It is disclosed and they can actually spend on elections. So what
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that means in reality is a 501c3 can actually do voter registration. So like Planned Parenthood
00:20:12.860
is a 501c3, for example, Turning Point USA on the other side is a 501c3 that's doing great work
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among Republicans. And so then you have 501c4s, which they can actually say, you know, call, um,
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Matt Gaetz and tell him he's doing great work. They cannot say to vote for someone on that day.
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A super PAC can say, vote for Matt Gaetz on X day. So those are the three entities that,
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that we see. And Republicans are doing a lot through super PACs. Well, the Democrats have
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been utilizing C3s and C4s. And why that's so interesting is that most Republican donors are
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not aware that you can actually do things like voter registration through 501c3s. That's how you can do
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voter registration drives in your churches. And so we need to be presenting them with organizations
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that are, that are doing that. And C3s and C4s are kind of a tough barrier to start. If you start
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a C3, it takes about a year to even become IRS compliant. And so it's harder for these grassroots
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groups to just pop up an organization like that. And so there are some groups I think that are doing
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things very well. You know, for Carrie, she has Save Arizona Fund, which is a 501c4, which has been
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doing a lot of the legal work in the state of Arizona. And we've also just switched to a voter
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registration model as well, where we're going to be focusing heavily on that. And then Turning Point USA
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has a C3 and a C4. They're doing incredible work on this. And so I would look at those things. And
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you have party committees. Party committees are state by state, different laws. Some can take
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corporate money. Some can take only personal. Some can take unlimited. Depends by the state. But the
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states I would encourage people to look at to give to are the Georgia GOP. They just got a new chair,
00:21:41.480
Josh McCune, who's incredible. The Wisconsin GOP, their new chair, Brian Schimming, is another great MAGA
00:21:46.840
patriot that just got elected. The Nevada GOP is run by Michael McDonald, who is just an absolute
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rock star, like biggest Trump supporter you will find. Arizona GOP, thank God you have the safe hands
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of Tyler Boyer, the national committeeman there. So I really trust him. Michigan GOP, Christina Karama
00:22:01.720
is incredible, and she's just come in. Pennsylvania GOP, that's one I've heard from some of the grassroots
00:22:06.600
that they're a little upset with them. I'm actually going to Pennsylvania on Tuesday to figure out what is
00:22:10.920
the best place to do it. Is it the party? Do we need to set up a structure outside of it?
00:22:14.840
And so we're working on all these things. And so I would encourage, if anyone wants to kind of talk
00:22:20.120
through funding priorities, what they should be doing, they can email me. It would be cwren5024
00:22:28.520
at protonmail.com. And I'm going to start putting together sort of a newsletter to highlight these
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different things. And then the last thing is the Trump campaign. I'm getting a lot of people are just
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not wanting to give online and through WinRed, which I understand, but it's scary to me that we don't
00:22:43.160
have an online platform that people can be giving to. But I'm also one of the ones who led the charge
00:22:47.160
against the frustration of WinRed, of which has never been corrected. And so to give by check,
00:22:53.480
there are three entities for Trump. There's something called the Donald J. Trump for President and Save
00:22:58.520
America Leadership Act. It's called it. It's a JFC. They're together. And so it's the Trump Save America
00:23:03.240
JFC. That can accept up to $11,600 per person or $23,200 per couple. And a campaign like that can
00:23:12.360
only accept personal money, no corporate. If you want to give by check, you would send that check made
00:23:18.040
out to Trump Save America JFC. It will be mailed to P.O. Box 13570, Arlington, Virginia 22219.
00:23:31.240
And then there's also a corresponding super PAC, which is called the MAGA Inc.
00:23:35.080
That can accept unlimited donations, personal or corporate. And it is disclosed. And then they
00:23:40.200
announced this week that Trump has started a legal fund as well. And this is a legal fund
00:23:43.560
that actually is not covering President Trump's legal bills. It's covering the legal bills of all
00:23:47.720
the staff and all these others who are being attacked by the DOJ. And that's called the Patriot
00:23:53.880
Legal Defense Fund. And that is also an entity that's not disclosed and can take unlimited money.
00:23:58.520
So I know that's a lot for people to download, but I'm getting a lot of questions about this.
00:24:02.680
So I wanted to walk through what all that looks like. And I'm certainly happy to help people as
00:24:06.680
they start to look at all this. You had warned about this. Is the RNC broke?
00:24:11.880
Yes. And I think I have about $10 million cash on hand, which is not going to get it done. And
00:24:20.760
the way that it works is the RNC raises a lot of this money and then they transfer it down to the
00:24:24.760
state parties. And as I was doing the RNC battle, when I was working with Harmeet and Mike Wendell to
00:24:30.200
try and take out Ronna McDaniel, what I learned from a lot of these state party chairs is that they just
00:24:35.240
have to sit around and basically wait for this transfer from the RNC. And they never know how much money it's
00:24:39.720
going to be and that you have to kind of keep in Ronna's good graces to be able to get it.
00:24:44.280
And so that to me, I'm like, what a flawed system. People should just be giving straight into these
00:24:49.000
party committees that matter versus having to go through the RNC and wait for this trickle down
00:24:52.840
system. And this is why right now you're seeing these new party chairs, all those states that I
00:24:57.000
just laid out, those are like great MAGA Patriot chairs that have just been elected in the last year,
00:25:02.120
with the exception of Michael McDonnell, who's been there for forever, but again, is a rock star.
00:25:06.600
But they need help. And so I just think that it's smarter just to give the checks directly
00:25:11.160
into your, these party clubs versus having to go through the national committee.
00:25:17.560
Uh, how did they get, how do folks get to email, social media, all of it website to go to carry,
00:25:23.480
where do people go? Because there's an intense interest in all of this right now.
00:25:28.440
My social media is at Caroline Wren. And then if you want to email me and set up a call or have
00:25:34.120
specific questions or just want to know, you know, what you should be giving to you, you can do
00:25:38.040
C W R E N 5 0 2 4 at proton mail.com. Caroline, thanks for doing this. And, uh,
00:25:49.720
like I said, everybody should follow you on social media. It's not quite as you don't come in as quite
00:25:53.880
as hot as Carrie, but it's always interesting and informative. Oh, she's the best.
00:26:01.400
She's the best. Thank you so much. Uh, Caroline Wren, um, this whole thing of how you structure,
00:26:09.000
we've got a long, tough fight ahead of us. I've told you that we got a long,
00:26:12.840
a tough fight ahead of us. Make sure that you're not financially crippled for this fight. I want
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your plan? No doubt. Home title lock.com. Go check it out today. Short commercial break.
00:26:45.400
We're going to talk finance, capital markets, geopolitics, and where your money is going.
00:26:52.200
Particularly in Ukraine. We're going to talk about Ukraine in a moment. Ben Harmon is going to
00:26:55.800
join us for tomorrow. Back in a moment. Why are so many people buying emergency food right now?
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The month of August, people used to say well that's the month that people take vacations, and of course
00:31:33.240
we're trying to get as much outdoor activity as we possibly get here in the war room. We're going to be
00:31:38.200
up every day in August, so so much is going on. A couple things in, you know, this Fitch downgrade
00:31:45.480
is deeply disturbing, and don't let anybody in the media spin it any other way.
00:31:49.720
This is not about the debt ceiling fight. This is about the debt ceiling fight that the compromise of
00:31:58.120
McCarthy and with Biden, the analyst over at Fitch realized that that's leading us to the road to perdition. It's not the fight itself.
00:32:08.440
It's the fact that they don't and these fights, they don't take the outcome that'll start at least begin the process
00:32:16.360
for putting the country's finances on stable footing. We're heading over the cliff with the pedal down.
00:32:23.880
There's just no doubt about it, and Fitch knows that. There's already been ramifications, right?
00:32:28.280
There's going to be more ramifications coming to your credit card, your mortgages, all of it.
00:32:32.680
We're going to be covering intensely the road to Durban, and also at the same time, the Jackson Hole
00:32:37.240
Summit of the Central Bankers. You're going to have two things going on at the same time.
00:32:40.440
In Jackson Hole, the swells and your bettors, the guys that control the printing presses,
00:32:47.240
the central banks are going to be sitting there, you know, giving you more happy talk.
00:32:52.360
While in Durban, South Africa, the folks of the emerging world that particularly have resources
00:32:58.680
are trying to come up with an alternative to Jackson Hole or to Bretton Woods, which was the
00:33:04.280
massive monetary conference after the war that set up the post-war economic system and the dollar
00:33:11.000
at the center of that as the prime reserve currency. I want to make sure you go to birchgold.com
00:33:15.640
slash band to get the pricey. We've done a couple of page pricey on that to get you ready for Durban.
00:33:19.880
We're also working on a part four to the end of the dollar empire. You can download it all and get
00:33:24.760
it all for free. And also you can talk to one of the birch consultants. One of the issues with
00:33:30.760
Fitch was out of control of defense spending. The defense bill is a trillion dollars because
00:33:37.400
it's eight hundred forty eight billion dollars, but that doesn't include the intelligence community,
00:33:42.840
does include DHS, the energy department, which is just the nuclear weapons and weapons labs.
00:33:48.680
When you add it all up, it's over a trillion dollars. And of course, you're spending that money
00:33:53.080
this week in Niger, where the the administrative state's trying to get involved in another
00:33:59.800
firefight over there and send American troops. I want to bring in Ben Harnwell because one of the
00:34:03.480
central parts of getting it back in the capital markets crisis we've got is to understand the
00:34:10.680
spending. And one way to understand the spending is the out of control defense spending. One of the
00:34:14.360
ways to understand that is what's happening in Ukraine. Ben, I just got it. And you did the other
00:34:20.600
day. But I just want to go back and hit the rewind button on where we stand with the spring offensive
00:34:25.560
and the metastasizing war and all that now. And now they want, you know, start an American draft.
00:34:30.920
You had an article, but I want to make sure people appreciate this. We've talked about they've
00:34:36.600
they've talked about the spring offensive. They talked about it. You know, Zelensky's gone around
00:34:41.080
and bothered people for this equipment. They've put it all in. They're not grateful for it.
00:34:47.400
And we said before, one of the reasons we're honoring the Battle of Normandy is the Battle of Normandy
00:34:56.360
was just not D-Day. That was day one. The battle went on all the way to the early part of August.
00:35:02.280
And one of the reasons it went on, it was so bloody and so awful for the British, for Montgomery's
00:35:07.720
British army and the American army under Omar Bradley and Patton was that particularly the
00:35:13.400
American army, the folks just weren't trained enough. They were trained as much as they could
00:35:17.240
for D-Day. But once they got into the French countryside, the combined arms operation of artillery and
00:35:23.800
armor and infantry combined with close air support is enormously complicated. American troops
00:35:29.960
couldn't even be that well trained to go up against the Wehrmacht. And here we tried to take
00:35:35.400
Ukrainian civilians. They really didn't have much of a standing army. A lot of that already got
00:35:40.360
chewed up. And Ben, we tried to do it in no time, just fun, just pure optics. And of course,
00:35:46.600
they're getting slaughtered over there. The New York Times is reporting. You mentioned it the other
00:35:50.600
day. I just want to drill down a little bit more on it. They're sitting there going, hey,
00:35:54.120
thanks for the combined arms training. It's not working. We're getting killed. We're going to go
00:35:58.040
back to our old methods. What does that tell us Ben Harnwell? Well, exactly as you're saying,
00:36:03.960
it tells us that it doesn't working. And worse than that, that Ukraine is starting to panic now,
00:36:09.960
as it were, to break formation in its own panic. Credit to the New York Times. Now,
00:36:16.040
if you go to my getter feed, the most recent thing I posted was this article and also the CNBC thing
00:36:23.240
that we did, that we spoke about two days ago. And I suggested that these articles aren't an accident.
00:36:31.080
They are an outer visible manifestation of a hidden inner reality. And that inner hidden reality is the
00:36:38.520
fact that the U.S. administration, and not only, in fact, it's all of the NATO allies, pivoted
00:36:45.640
formally around the Vilnius, the annual conference, and are starting to withdraw from their full-on
00:36:55.800
support of President Zelensky. But crucially, especially the leadership that is necessary here,
00:37:02.600
because this war really has been maintained from the United States from the first moment. The United
00:37:09.240
States needs to, you can't just abandon a country in this situation. When that country itself, morally,
00:37:16.120
when that country itself, 17 months ago, wanted to pull out of the war, it was the U.S. and Boris Johnson
00:37:23.880
that said, look, stay in and we'll give you everything you need. If the U.S. is going to pull out now,
00:37:28.840
you need to do it in a certain way. That is to say, giving Ukraine and Russia the support,
00:37:36.760
the moral support both countries need, because there will be a face-saving dynamic on both sides,
00:37:43.800
which is important. It probably is the most important consideration. The U.S. needs to take
00:37:48.360
this leadership role, encouraging other third-party countries that will probably have more credibility
00:37:53.880
with both countries together, and guide those countries towards peace. What we have now,
00:37:59.080
and this is something that you were pointing at for months, for six months, is the more sadly,
00:38:05.800
more tragic outcome. Recalling President Diem of South Vietnam, who was just abandoned by the,
00:38:16.760
well, he was, I mean, it wasn't just a case of being abandoned. The CIA almost literally threw
00:38:23.640
through the guy under the bush, under the bus. So the article-
00:38:27.480
Hang on, Ben, Ben, Ben, Ben, Ben, Ben, slow on for a second. I just want to make sure,
00:38:32.120
and you've covered this as well as anybody, is, so help me think about it. Are they tired of,
00:38:40.840
are the heads of states over there in, particularly in France and England, and maybe Germany,
00:38:46.840
are they affronted and tired of Zelensky and just his attitude and the arrogance,
00:38:53.480
and even the United States in that? Or is it deeper, and they understand that this thing
00:38:59.800
is just not going to be won militarily. You're just going to kill, you're just going to suck up more
00:39:04.440
resources, more of their defense, more Ukrainians going to get killed, more destruction. So is it
00:39:09.800
just personality-driven, and they're tired of this guy? Or is it deeper, and they realize, hey,
00:39:16.200
as big a pain that Zelensky is, we've got a deeper problem here, and we ought to try to get to the
00:39:22.280
negotiating table and figure out the best deal we can get? It's not either or, Steve. It's both. I think
00:39:28.760
both are important dynamics in this. In fact, whilst I'm on air, I will find an article that refers
00:39:36.840
specifically to this, and it mentions that the European capitals have a fear, a justifiable fear,
00:39:45.400
I think is the expression, that America is going to pull out now and leave Zelensky to his own devices,
00:39:52.200
that it doesn't have, because of the changing political winds in the United States, that
00:39:58.040
America doesn't have the stomach to remain in. You mean that you're reporting here in War Room,
00:40:05.560
and what Pacific and I add to it is having an impact now among MAGA and Republican voters? Is that what
00:40:11.480
you're saying, that Ben Harnwell is actually having an impact? It is absolutely having an impact. It is
00:40:17.960
probably the most important factor in this calculation, because of course, were it not for MAGA, were it not
00:40:23.560
for the champion that MAGA is in the process of choosing to represent it in November 2024, this war
00:40:32.600
literally would go on for 10 years. I mean, President Zelensky gave an interview a couple of days ago when
00:40:38.440
he actually said that this is going to be a war of attrition now. It's going to be both sides wearing
00:40:42.600
themselves out, and he said, you know, we have what it takes to stay in this fight. He didn't think
00:40:48.680
President Putin would still be alive at the end of this 10 years to see it through. I mentioned this,
00:40:54.360
Steve, in my last hit, this is sadly delusional on behalf of President Zelensky, because absolutely
00:41:01.880
this war is not going to be going on for 10 years, and if that is his calculation, he's going to ignore
00:41:07.640
every window of opportunity to try and get the best deal for himself and for Ukraine at the
00:41:13.160
negotiating table, because he's going to find himself, if he's still alive, he's going to find
00:41:17.560
himself in a position of zero leverage when it comes to the negotiating table and trying to sit there
00:41:29.560
To get the best deal, hang on, to get the best deal, since the spring offensive is not getting
00:41:35.960
traction, he's now opening up Moscow's affront, and he's hammering Moscow with drones and other
00:41:41.800
things, and the Russians are hitting back in Odessa, taking out the grain infrastructure.
00:41:48.680
To get the best deal at the table, you've got to take territory, you've got to threaten Crimea.
00:41:54.120
If you believe, as I do, that they may be off the table because, hey, they've already,
00:41:58.040
once the New York Times announces they're chucking the American military training of combined arms,
00:42:04.280
then they got no shot, right? So is it only an escalation of going after Moscow? Is that what
00:42:11.640
he believes now he's got to do to get any kind of leverage to get to the negotiating table and
00:42:15.400
trying to cut some deal that not only saves face, but gets something out of this entire
00:42:23.000
I think it's clear, Steve, that the idea that President Roosevelt is going to be able to achieve
00:42:29.560
anything like his earlier ambitions with regards to this counter-offensive, that is simply not
00:42:35.720
participating in reality. In Memphis, I could call up Article 2B, which is the Guardian piece here.
00:42:44.840
This is the Guardian, right? This is an article that goes through, and I do want to come back and hit
00:42:51.080
the New York Times one, because that's also very good. But here, seeing as, Steve, you asked about
00:42:55.640
this counter-offensive, here are just some select quotes, and then I'm going to answer your question
00:43:01.160
on the back of this. It says here, the opening lines of this article, the first casualty of the
00:43:06.120
Ukrainian counter-offensive was wishful thinking. There's a line further on down here, in the context of it,
00:43:13.800
say, most military experts argue it's far too early to declare it a failure. But there is this
00:43:19.720
takeaway that there is no question that the counter-offensive has not lived up to general
00:43:25.080
expectations in Western capitals and is way behind the more optimistic schedules. You know, just read
00:43:31.800
to this article, and this is the left-wing press, this is like the UK's equivalent to the New York
00:43:36.360
Times. It is just an analysis of how the counter-offensive has failed. So the idea that at the negotiating
00:43:44.040
table Zelensky can sit there and say, well, look, you know, we might take Crimea, we might leave it,
00:43:50.040
we might leave it with Russia, let's sit and talk. This is ever more ridiculous, because there is no
00:43:56.920
counter-offensive that is viable, at least at the present stage, without NATO entering explicitly.
00:44:04.920
There is no path to these things for Zelensky. So his negotiation at this point is largely based
00:44:12.200
on the threat of NATO coming in and, well, the bluff of NATO coming in and trying to engineer something
00:44:19.800
on the back of that. But the more time passes, the more this is exposed as a bluff, and the less and
00:44:33.240
Wow. And when the Guardian's reporting that, it's pretty startling. Continue on, Ben.
00:44:39.720
Well, you know, it's not just the Guardian. There is this article that we flagged up a couple of days
00:44:46.280
to go on the war room. This is, I think, this is the article, I think it's 2A, off memory, or 2B.
00:44:56.120
Ukrainian troops trained by the West stumble in battle. And it is exactly as you were suggesting,
00:45:03.960
Steve, but an exposition of how you can't win a war against a drilled operation like Russia, with
00:45:11.480
troops that have been drafted in. And we're going to come to the draft, just in a few moments,
00:45:17.720
but have been drafted in and given four to six weeks training. They are woefully underprepared,
00:45:24.440
military and psychologically, for this. And that's one of the reasons the counter-offensive is failing.
00:45:32.520
Again, let me just pick out this quote here. It raises questions about the quality of the training
00:45:38.360
the Ukrainians received from the West. And about where the tens of billions of dollars
00:45:43.720
worth of weapons, and you were alluding that, Steve, earlier in your introduction,
00:45:47.720
including nearly $44 billion worth from the Biden administration, have been successful
00:45:53.560
in transforming the Ukrainian military into a NATO standard fighting force. And of course,
00:45:59.560
it raises questions, but the answers to those questions are clearly no.
00:46:03.880
No, Ukraine is nowhere near. That is why, and here's to come back to the point you raised in your
00:46:11.240
question, between the drone attacks in Moscow and Russia's attacks on Odessa and the grain silos,
00:46:19.080
these aren't, you put these both things in the weighing scales, they're not equivalent to one another.
00:46:26.280
The drone attacks in Moscow are really, I think, for domestic audience, let alone America,
00:46:33.640
for the domestic Ukrainian propaganda to say, look, we can strike into Moscow. These are doing,
00:46:41.480
in real terms, these are doing absolutely nothing. Thus far, thus far, no deaths reported from the Russian
00:46:48.600
side. Damage, structural damage. But it is nothing like what Russia is unleashing against Ukraine.
00:46:59.800
They're not equivalent. And I certainly hope for President Zelensky's sake, he's not thinking about
00:47:06.680
negotiating with President Putin and the idea that these things are somehow symmetrical to one another.
00:47:13.640
They're not. Ben, we're going to bounce. I'm going to hold the other stuff. Maybe we get you on tomorrow.
00:47:19.640
If not, we'll do it Monday. I do want to say that you have been right from this from the very beginning,
00:47:26.760
and some of your analysis and, you know, that beady-eyed cynicism that you bring to everything has done,
00:47:35.160
I think, as much as anybody. You, Basopi, and a handful of others have countered this massive,
00:47:41.320
massive media operation and really misinformation operation to really put before the American people
00:47:47.000
what's actually going on in Ukraine. And remember, I think Ben, myself, and Basopi would say,
00:47:51.560
the first we want to do is for the Ukrainian people. Professor Mersheim is right. They've been
00:47:57.320
fed into the churnal house of false lies, misrepresentations in the liberal progressive
00:48:02.360
media in our country, MSNBC, CNN, and all those analysts on there that lied to you from the beginning.
00:48:09.560
You're now seeing the reality of this, and it's brutal. It's quite brutal. And that New York Times
00:48:14.840
article that said, for all the money that went in and all the supplementals we gave and all the
00:48:20.520
optics of the planes and all the optics of the tanks and the Bradleys and everything had to go,
00:48:25.480
and the training, when they got in the battlefield, they got eviscerated. These kids got mauled.
00:48:31.800
And what happened? They said, they go, we can't do this. We're not trained to do this. We have to go back
00:48:36.680
to the way we know how to fight. And the way they know how to fight is just not going to dig out
00:48:42.520
the Russians, the way the Russians have dug in for years in eastern Ukraine and Crimea. Ben,
00:48:47.560
what's your social media? We're going to get you back on to finish all this. You've done an amazing
00:48:50.760
job. And quite frankly, when they talk about that the West has now woken up to this, your reporting
00:48:56.120
and analysis from Rome has been just at the tip of the spear in this. Where do people get you?
00:49:00.360
Thanks so much, Steve. It's Getter. It's my social media platform of choice. Simply tap in there,
00:49:07.000
my Harnwell, my surname, Harnwell. That's at the bottom of the screen. That's how you spell it.
00:49:11.160
At Harnwell on Getter. And for the newsletters via warroom.org, just register your email on our site.
00:49:20.520
Okay, Ben. Hopefully, I'll talk to you after the show. Maybe we'll get your beady-eyed
00:49:26.600
look on the show tomorrow. We got Dave Bratt and Dave Walsh. Maybe we'll try to get Ben to talk
00:49:32.680
more about Ukraine. Thank you very much. We're going to leave you now. The old Crows cover of this train
00:49:41.080
is bound for glory. Just a classic. We're going to be back at 10 o'clock tomorrow morning. The show
00:49:46.440
tomorrow, let me say this. We're going to try to make it as good as last Saturday show. How about that?
00:49:51.080
We'll see you tomorrow morning at 10 a.m. live in the world.
00:50:03.080
This train don't carry no gamblers. This train. Triple dealin' Wall Street ramblers. This train.
00:50:19.720
Well, if you catch them with their hands in deep, cast them out and then repeat. This train.
00:50:30.920
This train don't carry no liars. This train. This train. This train don't carry no liars.
00:51:30.460
Here it's all, this train don't carry no time, this train.
00:51:37.240
This train don't carry no pressure, this train.
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This train don't carry no pressure, this train.
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That tree walked into the dust, this train is found to go.
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