WarRoom Battleground EP 578： Total Digitization： Tracked, Traced, and Moved into Place
Episode Stats
Words per Minute
148.1712
Summary
As the warring posse well knows, we live in a Matrix of Madness. A media environment completely flooded with misinformation and disinformation. And perhaps most concerning, many institutions who want to step in and fix this problem by completely controlling the information environment, we have the problem of tribalization and political polarization.
Transcript
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This is what you're fighting for. I mean, every day you're out there. What they're doing is blowing
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people off. If you continue to look the other way and shut up, then the oppressors, the
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authoritarians get total control and total power. Because this is just like in Arizona. This is
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just like in Georgia. It's another element that backs them into a quarter and shows their lies
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and misrepresentations. That's why this audience is going to have to get engaged. As we've told you,
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this is the fight. All this nonsense, all this spin, they can't handle the truth.
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War Room Battleground. Here's your host, Stephen K. Bannon.
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We've heard Russian officials say that they have no intention of invading Ukraine. In fact,
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You know, it was not us who abandoned all contacts.
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He was not there to listen to the others and to discuss and participate in a meeting.
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And everybody was asking, mainly to Russia, who is the aggressor, to stop this war.
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Nausea. Yes. Headaches. Yes. Blurred vision. Yes. Balance and memory issues. Yes. Are you
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suffering? Yes. Why there are not new disinformation campaigns, fake news or conspiracy theories are
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used to fragment states and polarize the public opinion. We have been attacked. There has been
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deceptions and deceptions and there has been disinformation throughout the history of NATO.
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Various external actors are trying to undermine the unity of the alliance and affect our populations.
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When anybody preaches disunity, tries to pit one of us against the other through class warfare,
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race hatred or religious intolerance, you know that person seeks to rob us of our freedom
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Good evening. It is July 25th in the year of our Lord 2024. I am Joe Allen sitting in for Stephen K.
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Bannon, who is in prison on unjust charges. As the warring posse well knows, we live in a matrix of
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madness. A media environment completely flooded with misinformation and disinformation and perhaps
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most concerning many institutions who want to step in and fix this problem by completely controlling
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the information environment. We have the problem of tribalization and political polarization. These are
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natural problems, but they are exacerbated by this bizarre digital environment in which we are put into
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digital silos and made to hate one another. To speak to this, I'd like to bring in the strategic
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analyst who sits on the committee on the present danger China, Connie Elliott. Connie Elliott is quite
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brilliant. You may be familiar with her recent speech at the American Freedom Alliance. Connie, I'd just like to
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have you shed a little bit of light on the sorts of cognitive and neurological basis that these
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disinformation and misinformation and digital siloization campaigns run on? And what are the effects?
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What's happening to us? What are they doing to our brains?
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Well, like you said, everybody's trying to figure out how to achieve old objectives, but they're trying
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to figure out how to do it more cheaply. They're trying to figure out how to do it without first imposing
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mass violence on the population. And what we see is the explosion in use of generative machine learning
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systems has completely changed the information landscape. It used to be that we used to divide
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information campaigns into European or Soviet types, which were more urban focused, into people's war, which
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was the Asian style of revolution. And then there was a pattern of information manipulation that was also
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typical of the United States. And now we can't divide or classify these movements by type anymore because
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these machine learning systems are going through and they're being told to optimize for an information
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environment or for particular characteristics in an information environment. They are given,
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you know, they're running the curation for TikTok, for Facebook. They're running search waiting for
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Google. And they're given content and they are told to optimize for certain states, make certain that
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people stay on so many minutes a day, make certain that people click through so much of the time,
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make certain that purchases occur so much of the time. If a person can be made to choose to purchase
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something, he can be made to choose to vote differently. And we saw this in the trove that
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Zach Voorhees brought out of Google. They had a study in it which said,
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well, how can we make people buy more often? And they said, well, we have to make them feel threatened.
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We can't make them feel threatened ethically. So what do we do? Maybe we can catch people when
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they're feeling crowded. When do they feel crowded? How about when they commute home on the subway?
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So lots of cell towers went up in subway systems like Metro in DC, and Google engaged in A-B testing
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with their ads. And what they found is if they laid out ads a certain way and used certain kinds of
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wording from people who returned, whose IMSI devices returned from a cell phone tower inside that metro
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system during rush hour, when they were feeling very crowded, that Google could actually make them
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buy 50% more often than they otherwise would. So what you're telling me is that Google intentionally
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ran an experiment on human beings as if humans were lab rats. And in a cramped environment that they knew
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they would be anxious in, they were able to manipulate them to purchase more goods. That's what you're telling me.
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Yeah, but you consent or the people in the system consented to using those cell phone towers.
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So the moment you take the smartphone, you've basically signed up for a multitude
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Oh, my goodness. You don't even know. One swipe like that. And advertisers use programs which compare
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against trillions, if not quadrillions of interactions. They can predict your likely sex,
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your likely race, your likely IQ, all from one swipe off the phone. They can predict your socioeconomic
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level. It's absurd. And what this enables these programs to do is really focus on very fine differences
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in our own individual neuropsychologies that we're not even aware that we have. And they're able to do
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it like through what Dr. Robert Epstein calls a search engine manipulation effect, which let's face it,
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is subliminal advertising. When we try to search, we're fed a list of items which are the most likely
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search results based off of our initial query, and then they disappear. That's subliminal advertising.
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When that was part of television, mass media, we protected Americans from that law. Those protections
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don't exist on the internet. And since 2013, with Smithmont modernization, if it's the United States
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government doing it to American people, there's no protection in law at all.
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Let me ask you, you know, we've all experienced this for the last eight years,
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Trump derangement syndrome. I mean, everyone knows that Donald Trump is not a perfect,
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he was not a perfect candidate, nor a perfect president, nor is he a perfect candidate now.
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But I think a lot of us in the posse and in general in society have seen this, that people
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have in some sense been brainwashed. I know that's a very cliched term, but I can't really
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think of a better one to describe it. There is this bizarre trigger in their minds. Whenever the
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orange man appears, suddenly they're unable to think, they're unable to reason, and they become
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consolidated into their own sort of latte-sipping blue tribe. Admittedly, we probably do much the same,
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but as long as we're here on the war room, let's focus on them. To what extent are the sorts of
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psychological experiments that you're talking about that are used to move people towards certain
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products, to what extent is that used to intentionally polarize the society and make us unable to really
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reason through our differences or discuss them in any meaningful way?
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I don't know specifically about how these things from Google were used. I do know that
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the DRAD algorithms that our taxpayer dollars paid to develop in Iraq and Afghanistan have been turned
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loose on us. Stan McChrystal stood up a nonprofit for the 2020 election, I know,
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that used the DRAD algorithms. And the dirty secret of those is that they don't de-radicalize anybody,
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they polarize populations further. And it's like somebody took the work of the Political Instability
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Task Force back in the late 90s and early 2000s, where they were talking about polarization of a
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population as one of the key indicators that a population is about to fall into internal war
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and instability. And they turned all the recommendations on their head and tried to
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enact everything that those recommendations said to avoid.
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To what extent? You sit on the Committee on the Present Danger China and your focus obviously is
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looking at the oftentimes sort of fifth-generational warfare being waged on the United States by China,
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which includes, of course, aside from economic warfare, psychological warfare. To what extent
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is our American media environment infiltrated by Chinese influence that is intended to divide us,
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to make us dumber, and to perhaps even view China in a positive light?
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One of the things that I have been watching is the TikTok curation algorithm and its effects.
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We see that a lot of communities are centered there. There is a lot of the trans community centered on
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TikTok. We know that other ideas like suicide and self-maiming can be contagious in a population.
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There are studies on that in the South Pacific. It's going on. It's undoubtedly going on.
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It's almost impossible to tell how infiltrated we are because we turn our kids loose with smartphones.
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We turn our kids loose with smartphones with TikTok. We turn our kids loose with programs that use
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curation algorithms for information that human beings are not able to audit. There's no official
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monitoring. So we have to do a lot of this by collecting small stories and episodes. But I think
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that if we actually devoted the kinds of resources we'd need to devote to understand the extent and
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effects of infiltration by the Chinese, by Russians, by anybody who wants to affect the decision-making of
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the American voter or consumer, we would be terrified by the extent of the
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the neurocognitive warfare that we see being waged on us every moment we are plugged into the information
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environment. And it's impossible to escape. One of the more powerful things I found in your recent
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speech at the American Freedom Alliance, which I certainly recommend that the War Room Posse check out.
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We'll have the links out on all on all of our platforms. But one of the really wonderful pieces,
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something that I oftentimes neglect in my own work, it was your positivity at the end,
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looking at this as at least a field of possibilities that could be seized upon for positive action.
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As the rest of society descends into this matrix of madness, what do you see as the upsides? What are our options?
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Well, the hopeful and the scary part is that our minds are the contested domain. There's a NATO report
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that says humans are the contested domain of the 21st century. And that means even though we may not
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see it immediately in our lives, our individual choices still matter. As long as we pull back to our
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locus of control to those things that we can immediately affect, like our home,
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our families, we focus on building our immediate communities, we have a chance to make ourselves
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more resilient and to carve out a place that is free. As long as we remember every time that we plug
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into the information environment, that we touch a device, that the only thing that we can understand
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from a message is what the message creator wants us to think and separate that idea from what's actually
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so. We have a chance to get back to basics and to build ourselves and our homes, our families,
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our communities into the kind of small resilient communities the founders tried to leave us with.
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And that's it. What's the saying? The word or the characters for crisis and opportunity are the same.
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I love that. I love that. Well, Connie Elliott, thank you very much. Where can people find you? And where can
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people keep up with the work that you're doing?
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Right now, it's mostly at Mama Imp on Twitter. And I'll be opening a blog in the next couple of weeks.
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We definitely look forward to that. Thank you very much for your service on the committee. And also,
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we really, really look forward to seeing your further analysis on this. Thank you very much, Connie.
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All right. So we have been talking a lot about the matrix of madness that the digital environment
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creates. And I don't really think there is anyone who can speak to it quite as well
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as the great Shane Cashman. You may be familiar with Shane Cashman from Timcast, but he has ventured
00:18:41.240
out on his own in an incredibly brilliant show, Inverted World Live. They cover everything from
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the paranormal to deep fakes to other bizarre conspiracy theories, maybe not unfounded theories.
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I am very good. It's good to be here. How are you?
00:19:02.520
Good, good. So Shane, we have been talking about a lot of the sort of misinformation that circulated
00:19:09.800
on the right. Biden is dead. Biden is in hospice. Biden has been abducted by UFOs. I'm curious what
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your read is on this. I mean, obviously, in my coverage, I am very cynical and very snide. And
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oftentimes I'm no fun. I'm kind of a fuddy-duddy rationalist. You, on the other hand, are also
00:19:32.440
cynical, also snide, but you're a lot more fun. So tell us a little bit about what you've been seeing
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in this weird misinformation environment. Are the deep fakes the misinformation? Are the claims that
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the deep fakes exist the misinformation? Is it all misinformation? Tell us about it.
00:19:51.880
So right now, as we speak, Biden is both alive and dead. This is what I call the post-reality.
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Everything can be true and nothing is true all at once. You know, post-reality, in my mind,
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is the totality of events that occur both digital and physical. And it's the culmination of every
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possible reality. So it's like this mutated, fractured world where anything you want to be
00:20:17.880
true can be true with a simple Google search. I don't think this is wholly unique to humanity.
00:20:23.160
We've been doing this forever. But the Internet age has accelerated this. So when you look at Biden
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getting COVID, supposedly, and going away into isolation, or if you look at the failed assassination
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attempt on Trump, they become these Rorschach tests. And depending on your media diet and your
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perception of the world, where you're coming from, anything you want to be true will be true.
00:20:46.680
So if you look at the Trump assassination attempt, within minutes, post-reality kicked it to high
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gear. And you could find people saying, the shooter teleported there. I saw that one. I like that one.
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You could say, you could see that Trump staged it himself. One shooter, two shooter, three shooters.
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And the thing that makes it particularly post-reality is that it's not just that the theories
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are out there spreading, which is fine. But it's that people share evidence, supposed evidence,
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of all of these theories. Like you're saying right in the beginning, if you want to share evidence of
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a certain video of someone on a water tower, these things can be manipulated now through AI.
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And also, on top of that, people can say things are fake because we know the capabilities of AI.
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So we live in this world where you don't know anything, even if you're the witness to it.
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You know, Denver, if we could, there's a video I'd like to show you.
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There was a clip put out by Matthew Sabia or Sabia or whatever. In post-reality,
00:21:53.800
we can pronounce names any way we want. But it purports to show that the recording
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or the phone call with Joe Biden and Kamala Harris is AI. Let's have a look at that.
00:22:06.920
It is so good to hear our president's voice. Joe, I know you're still on the call. And we've been
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talking every day. You probably, you guys heard it from Doug's voice. We love Joe and Jill. We really do.
00:22:20.520
They truly are like family to us. And we do. Everybody here does. It's neutral.
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I knew you were still there. You're not going anywhere, Joe.
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I'm watching it, kid. I'm watching it, kid. I love it.
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I know yesterday's news was surprising and it's hard for you to hear,
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but it was the right thing to do. I know it's hard because you poured your heart and soul into me.
00:22:55.880
Okay. Let's just go on old 11 labs and see if that's really all they probably used for this. So
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upload. There we go. And let's see what we got.
00:23:16.920
Yeah, it looks like they didn't even really try.
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So for the listeners who couldn't see the video, what we see is Matthew Sabia taking that clip,
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running it through an AI detector at 11 labs. And the detector comes back with a 98% certain
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response or result that the recording or the discussion, the phone discussion with Kamala Harris
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is in fact a deep fake. Now that was really easy to do. It got a huge amount of traction. I mean,
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thousands and thousands of likes and views, but other users who are just as adept with the software
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went through and put the original clip through 11 labs, AI deep fake detector. And it came up with
00:24:05.320
2% consistently. Of course, the Matthew Sabia got community noted, but in this fake environment,
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it really won't matter. He'll be right back. He's got over 100,000 followers. He'll be right back
00:24:16.360
to posting BS. Nobody will notice the difference. You know, Shane, I'm curious. It's clear that Kamala
00:24:22.760
Harris and Joe Biden's affection for one another is fake. But in this environment of potential deep
00:24:30.760
fakes and obvious faked deep fakes, how do people get their heads wrapped around it? We've only got a
00:24:37.080
couple of minutes, but I'll hold you over through the break. It's almost impossible, honestly,
00:24:42.920
because when you look at the Kamala call, she doesn't speak well 80%, 90% of the time. So she
00:24:48.040
could just be misspeaking, saying a recording by accident. I don't think so. I think they probably
00:24:54.200
edited some kind of conversation beforehand, pre-recorded it and gave it to her. But I don't
00:25:00.200
think we'll know because we live in a world where anything can be faked. Anything can be said,
00:25:03.960
it's fake. And it's just going to come down to, uh, you be learning how to discern, uh,
00:25:09.800
the things that you're watching and reading and knowing that even the person you trusted yesterday
00:25:15.000
could be lying to you today, maybe not even on purpose, but, uh, that's the world we live in.
00:25:20.760
And you got to get used to it. Uh, you know, if you can just give us in the minute we have left,
00:25:26.440
and then maybe we'll, we'll expand later, uh, after the break, what is the wildest
00:25:32.360
bogus claim you've heard in the last, I don't know, month?
00:25:37.720
I mean, my favorite one is that Barron Trump is a time traveler.
00:25:43.800
Elaborate. Well, I mean, it's kind of, it's kind of connected to history because it's a
00:25:48.200
Ingersoll Lockwood books, I believe is the author who wrote a book, I think in the late 1800s about
00:25:53.880
a boy named Barron Trump, who is a time traveler, I believe a time traveler. And he's kind of
00:26:00.680
mentored by a man named Don. And I think there's a president involved. I believe something about
00:26:04.840
Fifth Avenue. So a lot of people say Barron might be a time traveler. So maybe that's not so far
00:26:09.880
fetched. Who knows? Uh, yeah, you know, if, uh, you eat enough Xanax, I hear you will time travel.
00:26:17.240
Um, uh, uh, Baron the time traveler and Schrodinger Joe. Uh, I love this. So, uh, yeah,
00:26:24.760
I'm going to hold you on. I'm going to hold you over through the break. Shane will be right back.
00:26:28.520
Uh, war room posse, uh, prepare for a further descent into insanity, but don't worry. We'll
00:26:34.120
come back into the realm of the horrible and the sane by the end. Hang on.
00:26:47.640
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All right. Welcome back. War Room Posse. I am Joe Allen sitting in for Stephen K. Bannon,
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who is unjustly imprisoned in a world in which you are completely attached to your smartphone,
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in which the government and various corporations are tracking you. Maybe your ex-wife, maybe your ex-husband,
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maybe some other stalker. There has to be some way to shield your device from the probing eyes,
00:30:45.760
at least temporarily, or shield it from a possible EMP attack. I recommend silent Faraday bags. We've
00:30:54.080
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and secure your privacy today. Again, that's slnt.com slash Bannon for 15% off and free shipping
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on qualifying orders. slnt.com slash Bannon. All right, that was a dose of sanity. Back to the madness.
00:32:20.880
Shane Cashman, something that really bothers me about this insane post-reality environment that
00:32:27.440
we're in is that certain institutions are well-prepared and poised to swoop in and give us
00:32:34.960
reality, capital R, once again. To what extent do you think that this spread of rampant BS is a precursor
00:32:43.200
to more rigid information control in the future? They're going to try it. I mean, look at how
00:32:50.880
something like Twitter changed once it got monetized. Everyone wanted to then become
00:32:56.480
like a TMZ regurgitation, you know, shocking headline machine. So Twitter went from like,
00:33:04.400
kind of, you know, we were all warring and having fun on Twitter. But there was, to me,
00:33:08.480
something happened where people wanted to be the first to break news, especially once it was monetized.
00:33:13.840
And you see this happening with a lot of big accounts, especially in the last few weeks,
00:33:16.720
especially when it comes to Biden and people sharing stories that someone has passed away
00:33:21.840
when they haven't passed away. And people get mad. And I imagine people will call for,
00:33:26.720
you know, some form of suppression or censorship. And, you know, that bothers me,
00:33:31.680
even though I'm also bothered by misinformation. I'd rather have the ability to decide for myself
00:33:37.520
than someone stepping in and doing it, which, you know, I think Twitter or X, whatever you want
00:33:41.680
to call it, uh, is already doing to some degree. I think they're already suppressing accounts
00:33:46.160
based on bad behavior. I put bad behavior in quotes because we don't really know what bad
00:33:49.520
behavior means behind the scenes of Twitter. Uh, but that's, again, this is nothing new. It's,
00:33:55.120
you know, I used to sit and watch the news of my dad. My dad is a political junkie.
00:33:58.400
That's where I get it from. And we would, he would flip through the channels, CBS, ABC,
00:34:02.880
Fox, all that stuff. And, and tell me all these people live in different worlds, you know, but
00:34:08.160
now my dad hasn't really moved to the digital age. He doesn't do the computer stuff, but I'm like,
00:34:13.040
my dad doesn't, so my dad doesn't know that now there's a hundred thousands, infinite different
00:34:17.200
worlds of different realities. And they're all trying to be, uh, you know, controlled by whatever
00:34:23.280
corporations who's advertising there. They're maybe they're captured by their own audience.
00:34:28.160
So that's why I think it's good to kind of travel through all of them as much as you can.
00:34:32.000
If, if you care, if you care to know, and if you're someone who wants to get emotional about
00:34:36.080
the world around you, you can't just subscribe to one or two voices. You kind of have to
00:34:40.960
go through the buffet of information and make your best judgment in the end.
00:34:45.520
Well, Shane, speaking of multiple worlds, there's one world we're all curious about.
00:34:49.920
Where do we find inverted world live? What time does it air? And what will we find there?
00:34:55.440
All right. So you can find inverted world live every Sunday at 6 PM Eastern time.
00:35:00.720
Uh, we have great guests. Joe Allen has been a guest, but he's coming back for a much better
00:35:04.560
episode after technical difficulties we had. Uh, but yeah, we, we talk about everything from ghosts to,
00:35:10.080
uh, you know, declassified information such as operation Northwoods and the Philadelphia
00:35:14.960
experiment. Uh, a lot of good stuff like that. Psycho magicians hired by the CIA, all that fun stuff.
00:35:20.240
All right. Thank you very much, Shane. I really appreciate it. And I look forward to coming back.
00:35:28.800
I'll tell you what, Denver, if you would, uh, let's see the, the cold open on digital identity. I,
00:35:34.400
I think that this would be best to tee up our friend, Tim Hinchliff at the sociable.
00:35:38.720
With the right investments, digital public infrastructure will help us accelerate progress
00:35:45.520
across all the health and development goals. We know this because we're seeing it happen now.
00:35:52.640
Under India's leadership, the G20 is advancing digital public infrastructure because it can help
00:36:00.000
transform health, agriculture, banking, education, and more. Last December, I visited India to learn
00:36:09.120
more about their digital transformation story. And I saw firsthand how women's lives in the
00:36:15.600
communities they live in are being transformed by digital payments. And it builds on the bank's
00:36:22.640
identification for development initiative, which has been meeting the steady demand from countries
00:36:28.880
to modernize ID and civil registration systems. By 2028, more than 500 million more people will have a
00:36:40.000
digital identity that allows them to access employment and education opportunities more easily,
00:36:47.360
as well as financial services, healthcare and government programs.
00:36:51.280
You think what are the tools of the new world? Everybody should have a digital ID. Everybody should
00:36:57.520
have a bank account. Everybody should have a smartphone. Okay. Then anything can be done.
00:37:03.360
Everything else is built on that. Because we were talking about this before we came onto the panel.
00:37:07.760
The three basic things, a smartphone, a bank account, and a digital ID. Yes. That's where every name
00:37:14.240
In India, it's been named by the prime minister, the jam trinity. Jandan, which is the bank account,
00:37:19.040
Aadha, the ID, and mobile. That shouldn't cost that much. Nothing.
00:37:24.160
Why? Because in order to open an account, you need to have an ID. Right. And I have to say
00:37:30.240
that when I started this job, there were actually very little countries in Africa or Latin America
00:37:35.600
that had one ubiquitous type of ID. And certainly that it was digital. And certainly that it was
00:37:42.160
biometric. And now we've really worked with all our partners to actually help that being,
00:37:46.560
I mean, to grow this. And the interesting part of it.
00:37:53.520
Yeah. I think we've got the idea. They want to tag and track everyone for various reasons. One,
00:38:01.360
in order to secure your bank account. Two, in order to secure your elections, or at least to have you on
00:38:08.800
the rolls in digital format. And three, to track every movement you make and ensure that they can control
00:38:14.960
anything you do. At least that's the cynical view. Tim Hinchcliffe at The Sociable has been covering
00:38:20.880
this for many, many years. He was among the first to really explain the machinations of the World
00:38:27.360
Economic Forum to the public. Tim Hinchcliffe, welcome to The War Room. Tell us, in this bizarre
00:38:34.320
disinformation environment, how important is digital identity to tagging and tracking people,
00:38:41.360
perhaps to keep people safe from their nefarious unrealities?
00:38:47.200
Well, first of all, thanks, Joe, for having me on. You're exactly right, what you say about digital
00:38:53.280
ID serving as track and trace, because that is what it does. It also is to eliminate all anonymity as we
00:39:01.520
know it. So then if you talk about misinformation, disinformation, they'll know exactly who it's coming
00:39:07.680
from, it'll be timestamped, and everything. So what it is, it's like a never-ending nudge system
00:39:14.720
to incentivize, coerce, or otherwise manipulate human behavior. And it's an entry point into a
00:39:21.520
system of social credit. In a lot of my writings about digital ID and digital identity,
00:39:27.360
I often refer to a quote from the World Economic Forum, and it's from a report from 2018, and I think
00:39:33.200
it sums it up perfectly. It's that digital identity determines what products, services, and information
00:39:39.840
we can access, or conversely, what is closed off to us. So when Melinda Gates talks about how digital
00:39:47.200
identity is going to open up all these possibilities for all these people, 500 million new digital IDs or
00:39:53.200
something by 2028, it's also closing off possibilities. So they talk about financial inclusion all the
00:40:01.760
time and digital inclusion. So you can have this digital ID to open a bank account to participate
00:40:08.000
in government programs. But at the same time, it's also a track and trace thing that looks at everything
00:40:16.720
that you do. It has a record of your voting, what you say on social media, your medical records,
00:40:23.520
what happened during COVID with first contact tracing and vaccine passports, financial history,
00:40:28.880
carbon emissions. And so I like what Klaus Schwab, the World Economic Forum founder, wrote in his book,
00:40:37.760
The Fourth Industrial Revolution, going back to 2016, 2017. He said that any package,
00:40:44.160
pallet, or container can now be equipped with a sensor, transmitter, or radio frequency RFID tag.
00:40:51.120
And in the near future, similar monitoring systems will be also applied to the movement and tracking
00:40:57.360
of people. So people behave differently when they know they're being watched. And as one other WEF
00:41:06.160
Future Shocks report said from 2019, authoritarianism is easier in a world of total visibility
00:41:13.200
and traceability, while democracy may turn out to be more difficult.
00:41:19.120
It's astounding. It's astounding that anyone would be able to look at other human beings as
00:41:25.040
products. And yet we know that's the norm with smartphones. If you have anything for free, any app, any
00:41:32.720
service whatsoever, you are not buying a product. You are the product. They have harvested your soul.
00:41:39.760
Tim, tell us, you know, what we saw there and a lot of the coverage that you've done over the
00:41:46.240
last couple of years has shown that the third world and developing world is in many ways a laboratory
00:41:53.040
for this. People who are desperate and who are much more willing to give up their privacy and submit to
00:41:59.280
these systems. How much has this proliferated in Africa and in India? And how long before those
00:42:08.240
experiments are then brought to the big time in the U.S. and Europe?
00:42:13.680
Well, you're absolutely right about being experimental testing grounds in developing nations. Just take a look at
00:42:20.560
India, for example. So India, they had their ADHAR digital identity system, which goes back over a decade.
00:42:27.600
And they always said that it was going to be voluntary. They still say to this day that it's voluntary.
00:42:33.520
But over time, the whole history of India's digital identity system has been a series of government overreach
00:42:40.560
with Supreme Court back decisions, kind of pushing it back. And then the government overreach again.
00:42:46.640
And then so they started mandating the IDs. Banks were saying that you had to have this ID to open up
00:42:51.600
a bank account and other services and local governments and so on. So what they were bragging
00:42:58.240
about just a couple of weeks ago or a couple of months ago was that now India has 1.2 or 1.4 billion,
00:43:05.920
basically its entire population, people voluntarily signed up to the system. Pakistan's going in the
00:43:12.960
exact same direction. There was a report on the World Economic Forum just last week talking about
00:43:18.640
how Pakistan has almost all of its adults are now dependent on that system. In Ukraine, just before
00:43:26.400
the whole conflict came out, the Minister of Digital Transformation, Mikhailo Fedorov,
00:43:32.800
said that they want their digital ID to enable all life processes, all life services,
00:43:38.880
and that people would have no choice but to trust this digital ID. That's where their
00:43:42.480
DIA app came from and had 80 different services all tied together. And with this digital identity
00:43:49.280
system, they say that the data is yours. You control the data, you control who you share it with.
00:43:55.840
But then if you don't share it, you're locked out of the system, whether it's public or private. But the
00:44:00.960
thing is, the public-private partnerships, that's the merger of corporation and state,
00:44:05.120
that's where they're going for. So when a government can't do something, the private sector steps in.
00:44:10.400
What else is going on? And so if it's going to come to us, if it's going to come more into the West,
00:44:17.200
into the US, I don't see it happening in an overt way like, hey, we're getting everyone on the system
00:44:24.080
right now because we already do have little forms of digital identities already. COVID launched the
00:44:30.400
contact tracing, vaccine passports. Well, that's a digital identity. You're a bank card. If you sign
00:44:35.760
up for a bank, a lot of things on it say there's a digital wallet. And they also come with optional,
00:44:40.880
at this point, carbon footprint trackers, carbon emission trackers. All these are little bits of
00:44:46.080
digital identity. So it's already here. It's just being small increments until it creeps up on you.
00:44:52.320
And then all of a sudden, boom, you're trapped in the system. And then once it's beyond smartphones,
00:44:57.920
like say, okay, well, maybe I just don't want to carry around a smartphone. Well,
00:45:00.960
the chip that's in your bank card, what is in your Fitbit, whatever wearables you have.
00:45:06.000
And then in the future, well, that'll get under the skin. So that's something to look out for.
00:45:11.760
Yeah. You know, I see the rollout, for instance, of the palm payment systems at Amazon,
00:45:16.320
the Amazon One palm payment system, which, you know, on a positive note, fortunately,
00:45:21.760
it doesn't seem to have taken off very well. But as you mentioned a moment ago, as these systems
00:45:27.680
become normalized, it becomes more and more necessary, either because it's being mandated
00:45:34.080
or just by default. It's become the norm. And if you decide to opt out of the norm,
00:45:40.720
well, then you're just left out in the cold. You're not civilized anymore.
00:45:43.840
A quick question about, we have very little time left, but I'm very curious about this
00:45:50.720
disinformation environment and the desire to attach people's online identities to their biometrics.
00:45:57.600
We see it with Twitter. You see it proposed with the world coin and world ID, the evil orb that takes
00:46:04.480
your eyeball, that takes your retinal data and attaches it to your online identity.
00:46:10.400
How important is this flooded disinformation environment to securing your own identity
00:46:18.320
through a direct connection between your biometrics and your online persona?
00:46:23.920
Yeah, with so much online, well, what they call the infodemic, so much information going,
00:46:30.400
spreading around, you know, you can label it misinformation, disinformation,
00:46:34.400
malinformation, or even something that's true. But when there's so much information flowing around,
00:46:39.120
especially as it becomes AI generated, they want to know who's saying what, who's doing what,
00:46:46.000
who's producing what. And this goes back to the end of anonymity. They don't want anybody being
00:46:53.920
anonymous online. They want to check everything you say on social media, anything that you do
00:47:02.400
in the virtual world, which is spilling onto the physical world as well. So it's not even just the
00:47:07.600
the virtual world. So even, you know, like what we're talking about with the, if you have a smartphone
00:47:11.920
or Fitbit, it has geolocation. They know where you're going. As you mentioned earlier, I believe,
00:47:16.640
about geolocation, like they know if you're going to be at a rally or a protest or what happened where.
00:47:21.600
So the end, but with misinformation, it's just they, they're going to use that as a vector. Like,
00:47:27.520
and when I say they, it could be anyone, they call them bad actors, bad faith actors,
00:47:32.080
but that can be governments, that can be corporations, that can be just individuals. But using that as an
00:47:37.280
excuse to say, we need to protect the internet, we need to protect our democracy, we need to protect
00:47:43.600
everybody else. So in the name of that, no more anonymity. So we know everybody who they are,
00:47:48.640
what they're doing, track, trace society, everything.
00:47:52.000
Well, you know, maybe one of the upsides is all the people who have ripped off your work,
00:47:56.320
you can track them down and bring them to justice. Tim Hinchliffe, you have been a wealth of
00:48:01.840
information, especially in the last three and a half years, I've been covering this. I've relied
00:48:07.440
a lot on the information you've put out. Tell us, where do we find your work? Tell us where the
00:48:13.200
sociable can be found and let us know what you're working on right now.
00:48:18.400
Well, thanks for the kind words. Yeah, you can find the website sociable.co, not .com, but
00:48:24.640
sociable.co and on X at Tim Hinchliffe, my name and at the sociable. Right now,
00:48:31.120
what I've been working on, RAND, I just got done doing a RAND report saying that memes are now a
00:48:38.320
threat to the United States financial system. So they're looking at memes because they think it's
00:48:44.480
going to be a slow burn and bring down the whole collapse just because people are making these little
00:48:51.280
funny things on the internet. So that's why I've been looking into RAND and transhumanism and going
00:48:55.680
from there. Well, you know, arguably the 2016 election was won by memes. So maybe they're right
00:49:02.800
to be afraid and maybe we're right to have the right to bear memes. Thank you very much, Tim. I
00:49:08.960
really appreciate it. My pleasure. Thank you. Well, there are options out there and one of your options
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thank you very much for joining us. If you are curious about the rise of transhumanism and technocracy,
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check out my work at Jobot.xyz every Monday, every Thursday. Thank you very much. God bless.
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