Bannon's War Room

00:00:00.000 this is what you're fighting for I mean every day you're out there what they're doing is blowing

00:00:11.520 people off if you continue to look the other way and shut up then the oppressors the

00:00:18.520 authoritarians get total control and total power because this is just like in Arizona this is just

00:00:24.420 like in Georgia it's another element that backs them into a quarter and shows their lies and

00:00:29.160 misrepresentations is why this audience is going to have to get engaged as we've told you this is

00:00:33.460 the fight all this nonsense all this spin they can't handle the truth war room battleground here's

00:00:40.500 your host Stephen K Bannon it is Monday September 23rd in the year of our Lord 2024 I am Mike Davis

00:00:49.960 the viceroy standing in again for Stephen K Bannon who Biden and Kamala have in the clink

00:00:56.320 we have a great show today we have Adam Wren the national political reporter for Politico who wrote

00:01:05.480 a profile on me that uh that published on Friday so we'll talk to him about that I call him the

00:01:12.000 the viceroy's biographer and then we also have Andrew Ferguson from the Federal Trade Commission

00:01:18.700 my friend and former colleague from the Senate Judiciary Committee one of the key warriors

00:01:23.820 uh who helped President Trump transform the federal judiciary and then we have Jeffrey Clark

00:01:30.480 uh my my friend and hopefully a senior official on the Trump 47 Justice Department but we'll start

00:01:38.080 right off the bat with Adam Wren Adam welcome to the war room good to be with you Mike

00:01:45.380 yeah so let's talk about this you did this profile on me on Friday and it has frankly it has a lot of the

00:01:53.120 conservatives uh cheering and a lot of the liberals uh scowling so talk about why you decided to write

00:02:01.440 this profile and how this came out to be yeah so uh Mike as you know I was fascinated dating back to

00:02:08.520 last December um after having watched your much publicized uh hit on Benny Johnson's podcast about how

00:02:16.080 how someone who organized the University of Iowa and then other colleges across Iowa uh for George W

00:02:22.740 Bush how someone goes from from doing that a president who championed immigration reform to

00:02:28.520 uh someone who talks about putting kids in cages and you know I was curious whether this was real or or not

00:02:36.220 whether it was part of a of a troll or an act as you've said before um and you know you've been

00:02:42.280 mentioned obviously as a potential attorney general for Donald Trump in a second term obviously you've

00:02:47.380 said that you're unconfirmable that you'd need a hundred Republican senators to confirm you um so I

00:02:54.420 was just fascinated by the character that you presented and and what that meant for a possible

00:02:59.900 second Trump term so we've been talking you know off the record a lot and caught up with you in

00:03:05.640 Manhattan earlier this year and then in front of the Supreme Court where you almost punched a guy's

00:03:10.800 lights out uh a protester uh and then we had lunch after and then followed you to uh the Republican

00:03:18.920 National Convention in Milwaukee and was was sort of fascinated by the character you cut I mean

00:03:24.880 Donald Trump himself talks about you as being you know highly respected he said out out front of his

00:03:30.600 Manhattan trial one day um and so I'm just curious you know I was just curious of of how you saw a

00:03:37.720 potential uh second term and I think you're right the reaction to this piece has been pretty polarized

00:03:43.840 liberals have uh screamed in horror uh at the possibility that you represent and conservatives

00:03:50.480 have have large largely cheered it um a few people have told me it was a hit job uh but yeah I'm I'm I'm

00:03:58.620 happy to be talking with you today uh happy that you're still talking with me uh and happy to

00:04:04.260 say that yeah I would say I would say this Adam I mean obviously uh I think you're a fair reporter

00:04:10.540 you reported good things and you reported bad things and you reported them accurately and in

00:04:15.540 context and that's what a reporter's supposed to do and I I respect real reporters I respect real

00:04:21.400 real journalists even if they say bad things about me frankly I like it when mainstream reporters say

00:04:26.240 bad things about me because it helps the article three project raise a lot of money at

00:04:30.440 article three project dot org so uh that doesn't bother me one bit uh what what was your takeaway

00:04:36.180 after talking with me over the last six months um well first I'm curious at what fundraising has been

00:04:43.500 like uh since this story has come out whether you've seen a bump or not but you know I think my my

00:04:49.080 takeaway is that you know in some ways you are still the same Mike Davis uh that you were in you know

00:04:57.580 2016 2014 2015 like of all the institutions in the federal government you still believe most in the

00:05:06.300 supreme court and you know ultimately want to use the supreme court to dismantle parts of federal

00:05:11.220 government parts of the federal government and really you know in some ways that's a traditional

00:05:15.540 conservative idea less less government reign in the power of the federal government and I'm not

00:05:23.140 entirely sure that like MAGA world thinks in that kind of way I mean I know there's this talk of

00:05:30.180 draining the swamp but I'm not sure that they think in sort of that traditional small c conservative way

00:05:36.940 of returning you know power from the federal government to to the people yeah I mean that's a good point I

00:05:45.320 would say this it's hard to be a dictator if you have your judges dismantle the executive branch so it kind

00:05:51.000 of goes against this notion that Trump's going to be a dictator if he's appointing supreme court justices

00:05:56.940 and lower federal court judges who want to dismantle a lot of the executive branch and return it to what

00:06:02.920 our founders intended so that's one thing um I so I you're what you what you talked about for example let's

00:06:12.040 let's talk about a couple things like the people the journalists were freaking out because I talked about

00:06:16.860 putting journalists in the gulag as during my three-week reign of terror as Trump's acting attorney general

00:06:22.840 which is not even legally possible under the vacancy act and so that I pivoted to be the viceroy and the

00:06:28.780 whole point of that troll is for these uh these reporters these democrat politicians these democrat

00:06:36.440 operatives to understand and appreciate that a politicized and weaponized justice system in an intel

00:06:45.020 agency is very bad for our country and it seems like after two years of running this lawfare against

00:06:51.980 president trump they didn't quite get it and so until I started pretending like we're going to put

00:06:57.920 journalists in gulags and then all of a sudden a lot of journalists began to get it what's your take on

00:07:03.720 that yeah I mean I came away from the process of profiling you or by writing your biography uh of of

00:07:13.260 realizing that um that that you know traditionally you think reporters are an important part of the

00:07:19.460 process uh of of democracy uh you know even if in some cases uh as you joked that day in front of the

00:07:27.020 supreme court about the protester you know that he was an msnbc supreme court analyst uh who'd escaped the

00:07:34.840 asylum um you know I came away thinking that you respect journalists um you know broadly uh but I

00:07:42.420 wonder too if if the MAGA you know movement is in on the joke and whether whether that they truly get

00:07:50.340 it's a joke um in the same way that you know it is um and I I do see you know the point that you are

00:07:57.860 making about the dangers of politicizing the justice uh you know system I guess I do wonder you know

00:08:04.440 looking at a potential Trump second term is is if that's something that you know that that could

00:08:09.800 happen um whether you think if Trump wins in November that that he should use the department

00:08:15.640 of justice to go after his enemies that's still not entirely clear in in my mind as I think about

00:08:22.700 this I think you think that's a bad outcome um but I think that there's still this question mark of

00:08:29.240 is that something that Trump Trump would do well I would say this nobody's above the law as the

00:08:36.900 Democrats always say to Trump and his top aides and his lawyers and his supporters uh and also you

00:08:43.360 have to understand that if you're bringing grand jury indictments um you have to have uh oftentimes a

00:08:50.100 D.C. grand jury indict and you'd have to have a D.C. judge uh play along with whatever uh trial

00:08:57.460 that or whatever persecution uh like the Democrats have done to Trump and his top aides and his allies

00:09:04.220 and his supporters I just I just don't think it's realistic that any Republican president would be

00:09:10.000 able to politicize and weaponize our Justice Department against his political enemies for

00:09:15.820 non-crimes like Biden and Kamala Harris and these Democrat prosecutors in New York Atlanta even in

00:09:23.280 Arizona have done to Republicans I just don't think it's I don't think it's feasible and I don't think

00:09:28.180 it's a good thing that you politicize and weaponize the justice system against your political enemies

00:09:33.800 but apparently uh the Democrats have lost that memo yeah I mean um you know coming on today was sort of

00:09:41.880 the least I could do for all the time that you've given me but primarily I'm I'm doing this interview

00:09:46.920 so that if Trump does win in November uh you know you you might you know consider me and give me prime

00:09:52.780 space in the gulag uh wherever that will be I'm basically here to negotiate uh you know my my good

00:09:59.680 spot for me and my family um so that we can you know uh not not be in the worst part of the gulag

00:10:06.000 I would Adam I think you're a good reporter so I'll put you in the VIP gulag in Indiana so you don't

00:10:12.720 even have to come to DC so you'll have a special place for you for for reporters who report fairly

00:10:18.380 you go to the you you get you get your preference for the for the gulag so but anyway Adam uh where

00:10:23.760 do where do the where does the war room posse find you online what are your coordinates uh yeah

00:10:29.520 you can find me um at politico.com search Adam Wren or you can find me on x uh at Adam Wren

00:10:35.720 a-d-a-m-w-r-e-n like the bird thank you very much Adam Wren for coming on next we're gonna go

00:10:43.520 speaking of President Trump's second term we have two all-star guests we have Andrew Ferguson

00:10:50.020 who's at the Federal Trade Commission and then we have Jeff Clark up after that uh we're gonna

00:10:54.620 talk for roughly 15 minutes with Andrew Ferguson and then we'll spend the rest of

00:11:00.040 the hour with Jeffrey Clark so let's bring in Andrew Ferguson he probably regrets coming to

00:11:05.760 the war room already Andrew and I are friends and former colleagues when I did my stub clerkship

00:11:11.660 on the Supreme Court back uh when Gorsuch got confirmed Andrew Ferguson was clerking for Justice

00:11:18.300 Clarence Thomas by far my favorite justice don't tell Gorsuch but um he so when I clerked for about

00:11:24.900 four months and it was pretty funny uh uh overlapping with Andrew Ferguson because I don't like many of

00:11:30.520 the law clerks I don't think they knew what to do with Mike Davis but I think I think he's grown to

00:11:35.140 like me a bit but um Andrew thank you for coming on you you also came and joined me on the Senate

00:11:41.420 Judiciary Committee to confirm Justice Kavanaugh Andrew played a key role on the Senate Judiciary

00:11:47.280 Committee he led the special counsel team um worked around the clock and then he took my job on the

00:11:54.520 Senate Judiciary Committee running nominations when I got chased out uh of the Senate after breaking

00:11:59.940 every piece of China in the Senate uh Andrew worked for the the Lindsey Graham chairman of the

00:12:05.340 Senate Judiciary Committee and uh you know people and then he went on to work for Mitch McConnell in

00:12:09.900 the leader's office and I would say this I know that the war room has a lot of issues with Mitch

00:12:14.480 McConnell and Lindsey Graham but I'll tell you what they were rock stars on judges really really solid

00:12:19.760 on judges that's why I have respect for them I disagree with them on many issues but uh I have a

00:12:26.640 lot of respect for them on judges and Andrew played the key role in finishing the transformation

00:12:32.040 of the federal judiciary with his flawless confirmation of justice Amy Coney Barrett uh and then he uh he went

00:12:41.900 off and he was the solicitor general for the state of Virginia and did a really good job there he was the

00:12:48.300 tip of the spear on the the fight against Google he was he was the architect of the uh one of the

00:12:54.320 lawsuits against Google with the uh with the Biden Justice Department who has been the Biden Justice

00:13:00.540 Department has gotten everything wrong except for big tech and they have done a very good job in the

00:13:06.020 antitrust division of the Biden Justice Department and then Andrew is now on the Federal Trade

00:13:11.060 Commission as one of the Republican appointed commissioners welcome to the war room Adam we we or not

00:13:17.020 Adam Jesus Andrew I just talked to Adam Andrew we will not um we will not chase you out of here with

00:13:21.780 your Lindsey Graham and Andrew Fergus uh with your Lindsey Graham and Mitch McConnell credentials but

00:13:25.900 uh tell us let's get your thoughts we talked about Clarence Thomas and Clarence Thomas is your former boss

00:13:33.140 I love Clarence Thomas I love Jenny Thomas there have been unrelenting attacks on Clarence Thomas along

00:13:40.280 with the rest of the Supreme Court uh over the last 40 years uh since Clarence Thomas was nominated

00:13:46.520 the Supreme Court since he's gone on the Supreme Court give me your thoughts your reaction to these

00:13:51.820 attacks on Clarence Thomas and the judiciary more broadly uh Mike thanks for having me on the war room

00:13:57.120 stoked to be here um it's good to see you again I love that Adam Ren piece it's you should be very happy

00:14:03.340 that people are saying that sort of thing about you um uh and just to be clear I'm here in my

00:14:08.360 individual capacity I'm not representing the commission so um I clerked for Justice Thomas I think he's the

00:14:12.920 greatest living American I think he's the greatest justice who ever served um and I think that there

00:14:18.360 is no doubt that these attacks that are false columnists are aimed to try to get him to bend

00:14:25.720 to try to break he's been on the court for more than 30 years he's within sniffing distance of being the

00:14:31.180 longest serving justice in American history and he has been a thorn in progressive sides since he got

00:14:36.680 confirmed and they have chosen this you know late in his career as a way to try to get him to bend or

00:14:44.860 break to get off the court to change his mind they've gone after him they've gone after his wife

00:14:49.420 Jenny who's a great American they've gone after his friends they've gone after clerks they've picked

00:14:54.240 the worst possible target to try to do this on because of all of the justices on the court and have

00:14:59.920 ever served he is the one who will never break he is unflappable he is indefatigable he's never ever

00:15:06.040 going to break so they can say whatever they want about him his integrity is unimpeachable his

00:15:11.480 commitment to the rule of law and to the constitution unflappable none of this is going to work he will

00:15:17.580 outlast anything that they throw at him they've been throwing it at him since they tried to derail

00:15:22.680 his confirmation in 1992 it didn't work then it's not going to work now they're never going to knock

00:15:27.940 him off that perch he's going to be the greatest justice in American history until he decides he's ready

00:15:32.160 to leave that's exactly right remember for the war room posse clarence thomas grew up dirt poor

00:15:38.740 in the segregated south right and he was actually a liberal in his in his youth and then he saw the

00:15:44.320 light and he became a conservative because i think he understood like i saw with my parents working in

00:15:50.420 these poor inner city schools growing up that uh that these government programs that are supposed to

00:15:56.900 help poor people particularly poor black people trap these people in intergenerational poverty with

00:16:02.840 fatherless homes crime-ridden neighborhoods and failed government schools and that is the perfect

00:16:08.240 recipe for the marxist to trap people in poverty and i think clarence thomas understands that he's been

00:16:14.800 he was a marxist he he spoke he's he's been speaking out against this for 40 years and that's why the left

00:16:22.060 hates him they they hate the fact that a black man is a conservative they hate a fact that a conservative

00:16:28.860 black man is on the supreme court and they've done everything they can to destroy him and i really

00:16:34.040 appreciate that you're speaking out because a lot of these former clerks can't speak out for some reason

00:16:38.000 and i defy you to read his concurrence in students for fair admission the big affirmative action case where

00:16:45.860 the court just struck down affirmative action that he's been calling on the court to do his entire career

00:16:49.760 i defy you to read his concurrence and not be moved to tears it's unbelievable the witness he bears to

00:16:55.720 what affirmative action does um uh and how unfair it is and how it harms both everyone people of all

00:17:04.420 races people who are denied access to higher education institutions because of their race um people who

00:17:09.860 uh others believe got it because of their race read his concurrence it's unbelievably moving it's a great

00:17:15.220 great um sort of pay on to american equality under law and it's just phenomenal what are some of your

00:17:21.540 other favorite opinions from clarence thomas um that one is my favorite opinion i mean i i was sg when

00:17:28.460 it happened um virginia was an amicus on the side that justice thomas took in that case um and it came

00:17:34.820 down um and it was i believe the first time that justice thomas had joined a majority opinion on

00:17:40.440 affirmative action in full he generally would join parts of it but wanted to go further than the court

00:17:45.080 was willing to go to get rid of affirmative action he joined it in full and i saw the judgment and i

00:17:49.080 said we won if he's if he's here we won and then i read his opinion and and his final the final two

00:17:55.400 paragraphs of his opinion and i moved to tears it's unbelievably it's unbelievably moving and he read

00:18:01.280 from his opinion at the court when they announced the opinion and that recording is online he just

00:18:05.880 deeply deeply moving and it's also you know he has been fighting this fight sometimes basically alone

00:18:11.620 his entire career slandered for fighting this fight as a black american for trying to resist the

00:18:18.940 sort of deeply divisive nature of affirmative action has suffered unbelievably for taking the stand and

00:18:25.980 finally prevailed just by outlasting it and you know it's just the perfect example of if they think

00:18:32.000 they're gonna knock him off with these attacks give me a break he's been through way worse and

00:18:36.460 is still standing what kind of judges do you think a president trump should have the do you think

00:18:41.900 president trump should appoint in his second term it biggest trump's biggest and most consequential

00:18:46.860 accomplishment of his first term was the transformation of the supreme court from the

00:18:51.640 left of center court to the clarence thomas court and then transforming a uh the a majority of these

00:18:58.440 critically important federal courts of appeals around the country the last stop for more than 99 percent

00:19:04.320 of federal appeals so what should president trump do in a second term who what types of judges should he

00:19:10.840 appoint so that's a good question i think the main thing to bear in mind is the thing that the justices

00:19:17.180 and the judges that president trump will appoint need most of all is backbone so we figured out we

00:19:24.480 president trump with assistance from my former boss leader mcconnell who was an absolute warrior on

00:19:30.720 judges for four years your and my former boss chuck grassley who was a warrior beginning with the

00:19:36.860 merrick garland fight even when he was in cycle just a true act of political courage and lindsey graham

00:19:41.880 we maxed out prestige we broke records for the number of supreme court clerks that we put on the bench

00:19:47.420 even liberal critics admitted that these were the best credentialed court of appeals judges in american history

00:19:53.420 the thing we need to focus on now is backbone because we have watched especially over the last 12

00:19:58.840 months progressives just attack the judiciaries and institution and the reason that they're

00:20:05.000 attacking the judiciaries and institution is that the outcomes aren't what they want and they are

00:20:09.880 trying to manipulate the outcomes by attacking the institution we're conservatives we are the institution

00:20:15.340 defenders it's super important that we do that the fact that you know some conservatives at one point

00:20:20.340 favored term limits doesn't mean we need to favor term limits when they're being held as a gun to

00:20:24.060 the head of the judiciary around the same time of an election but in light of what we know the left

00:20:30.040 will do to president trump's appointed judges we need people with backbone we need people who are willing

00:20:35.280 to say the law is the law right is right and i do not care what the new york times is going to say

00:20:40.280 about me and i think that's particularly true for the supreme court you've seen it i've seen it we both

00:20:45.160 clerked we both worked in this space the barrage to which nominees and supreme court justices are

00:20:51.300 subjected by the mainstream press and their progressive allies is unbelievable it's it's hard

00:20:56.760 to imagine and unless we are selecting very carefully for people who are not just going to be good

00:21:02.200 originals we've got so many of those on the lower courts now but who are willing to stand up and say

00:21:06.680 i do not care what you think about me the law is the law right is right here is the answer and i'm

00:21:11.780 going home that's what we need without giving an exhaustive list of potential supreme court list

00:21:17.440 nominees uh who who do you think would be good what who who is on the bench right now or elsewhere who

00:21:23.960 would be good on a on the supreme court in trump's second term i mean you know it because of president

00:21:29.720 trump and leader mcconnell we have this like embarrassment of riches um the the list is we have

00:21:34.600 too many is the problem but i mean there are so many good ones like judge the par on the sixth circuit

00:21:39.280 judge ho and judge oldham in the fifth circuit judge matey on the third circuit judge branch

00:21:44.140 judge lagoa on the 11th and that's just like a fraction of the list there are so many good options

00:21:49.540 judge katsas on the dc circuit who's an absolute warrior there are so many good options i don't envy

00:21:55.520 president trump if he wins the election having to pick from among this list because normally the way it

00:22:00.660 is is a couple people sort of emerge from previous administrations as like the cream of the crop there

00:22:05.260 are just so many hardcore constitutionally committed judges who also have demonstrated backbone they've

00:22:11.660 stood the line on race issues on religious liberty issues on free speech issues um and those are that's

00:22:17.800 the sort of test that president trump will need to adopt is yeah are they good in the law but are they

00:22:22.180 going to stand up when the storm hits let's talk about antitrust because you're kind of the unsung hero

00:22:28.200 right now of the antitrust fight when you were the sg of virginia you brought a major lawsuit against

00:22:36.120 google with many other states along with the biden justice department uh talk about uh talk about your

00:22:43.720 views on big tech and uh talk about what you've done uh on big tech so the google case was weird right

00:22:50.960 because attorney general miar is in virginia very conservative um merrick the attorney general garland

00:22:57.540 very very liberal um but there is a like emerging bipartisan consensus that something is wrong in our

00:23:03.980 markets with big tech and the issue that that we worked on with the justice department was whenever

00:23:09.860 you go online and a website pops in front of you we all see it there are banners on the sides and on the

00:23:15.060 tops and they're full of advertisements google basically controls all of the mechanisms that decide

00:23:20.640 what ads you're going to see and how much they cost and they did it by buying up a couple nascent

00:23:25.700 competitors early on and then they would tell people you can't use our ad tech technology unless

00:23:32.680 you use our other ad technology even though it's not as good as some of our competitors it's called tying

00:23:37.640 um and google developed this monopoly on both sides of the advertising market both advertisers and

00:23:44.480 publishers all have to go through google um and you know this theory had been floating around for a long time

00:23:50.520 um president trump brought the original search suit against google that just the department of

00:23:55.340 justice just won huge huge credit should go to president trump for doing that very unusual for

00:23:59.740 republicans to be very aggressive on antitrust and president trump saw this very early um and then

00:24:05.420 the biden administration followed it up with this ad tech suit um and they wanted state partners and

00:24:11.020 you know can be hard to do state partners um from the other party um but attorney general miar saw like

00:24:17.300 this is a problem for consumers it's a problem for all americans it's driving up prices brought the

00:24:21.460 suit we brought it in the eastern district of virginia and they're in trial right now i mean we

00:24:24.860 only we brought it fewer than two years ago and they're already going to trial they're in the middle

00:24:28.520 of trial right now um if this trial goes out well and i'm pretty optimistic it's gone really well so far

00:24:34.680 um could be it could require google to break up its ad tech monopoly to spin off parts of the ad tech

00:24:40.420 monopoly huge benefits for consumers and that is the just so the war room posse understands it is

00:24:45.760 google's online advertising monopoly that provides google the lifeblood it uses to censor silence

00:24:54.820 de-platform and cancel conservatives and others with whom they disagree so breaking up google's online

00:25:01.520 advertising monopoly is truly the silver bullet to breaking up big tech we are closing out here

00:25:08.780 andrew any final thoughts you may have i'm happy you're here man it's really fun to do this with

00:25:13.820 you see you again we'll do it more often we'll do it more often uh thank you to andrew ferguson we're

00:25:18.600 coming up on a break here how do is how do people even get a hold of you are are you online i am i've

00:25:23.560 got my official account is a ferguson ftc on x um and you know ftc has a giant website our stuff's

00:25:31.320 on there if you've got consumer complaints that's the place to go well thank you andrew ferguson from

00:25:36.520 the federal trade commission commissioner you big dog for coming into the war room uh and next up

00:25:42.360 we're gonna we're gonna bring in jeff clark to to talk for the rest of the hour about what he's up to

00:25:50.560 and what the trump 47 justice department should look like and what it should do to fix this mess

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00:31:51.440 war room battleground with stephen k bannon

00:31:54.600 welcome back to the war room i'm mike davis the viceroy standing in for stephen k bannon

00:32:02.600 we have in the war room war room today one of my favorite people in washington definitely my favorite

00:32:09.480 lawyer jeffrey clark uh welcome back jeffrey clark as we all know it was a former top justice department

00:32:17.260 official for president trump he worked at one of the top law firms in the world a serious lawyer with

00:32:24.240 serious credentials and the democrats put jeff clark through the ringer and we're going to talk about

00:32:30.240 that and we're also going to talk about what should happen in a trump 47 justice department to bring

00:32:36.960 justice for this unprecedented lawfare and election interference against president trump his top aide

00:32:43.760 stephen bannon who's in prison right now peter devaro who went to prison his lawyers like jeff clark

00:32:49.860 and john eastman and rudy giuliani and his january 6 supporters who were persecuted yes persecuted as the

00:32:56.980 supreme court correctly held in the fisher decision in june when the supreme court held that the biden

00:33:03.740 harris justice department illegally contorted its politicized and weaponized a post enron

00:33:09.980 obstruction of justice statute intended for corporate fraud to go after their political enemies and it's

00:33:16.680 it's inexcusable it's unacceptable uh julie kelly has been one of the leading voices out there on that

00:33:23.320 and she's the one who raised this issue for me and i it's uh there there have to be consequences for

00:33:28.680 what they're doing to these january 6 defendants that we have trump and trump's a billionaire he's a

00:33:33.860 billionaire former and future president it's un-american it's unacceptable what they're doing to him but he

00:33:38.940 can weather the storm these january 6 defendants cannot and so uh we need to be speaking out more

00:33:45.020 against this political persecution let's talk to jeff clark let's talk about the persecution

00:33:50.100 against you you were a top justice department official you were the head of the environment

00:33:57.020 division and assistant attorney general senate confirmed and then you were the acting head

00:34:01.780 of the civil division and you wanted to provide at the same time at the same time you were you

00:34:07.140 oversaw thousands of people and you wanted to provide legal advice to the president of the united

00:34:14.880 states who who runs the justice department he's your clients right and so tell me what what happened

00:34:22.540 to you for providing this legal advice sure mike well thanks for uh for having me and i'm glad to uh

00:34:28.640 follow andrew ferguson here you know and good to be with the uh the viceroy designate uh for the future

00:34:34.800 trump administration uh look so what happened to me is as you said i was called on to present legal

00:34:41.680 advice about the 2020 election and what to do about it especially in the face of the fact that

00:34:47.840 as has come out publicly although there's still much of the story that's privileged and president

00:34:52.780 trump has had his lawyer send me two letters not just one uh to take executive privilege and a host of

00:34:58.360 other privileges including some obscure ones that probably not many people know about like law

00:35:02.700 enforcement privilege uh that they didn't want to do any real investigations of the election and i think

00:35:08.440 that's come out since then uh instead former ag bar was shutting down investigations he shut down an

00:35:14.700 investigation that the u.s attorney bill mcswain in philadelphia the eastern district of pennsylvania

00:35:20.460 wanted to do he shut down an investigation that a u.s attorney in florida wanted to do that involved

00:35:26.740 andrew gillam uh and told that u.s attorney larry keith that if he ever raised his head about trying to

00:35:34.800 investigate those sorts of issues he would be fired uh and uh he also shut down an investigation into

00:35:41.740 the uh the postal worker from new york who said that he was driving ballots to pennsylvania that was

00:35:48.720 being investigated by the amistad project and by colonel schaefer so there are probably other

00:35:54.240 investigations that were shut down that were privileged that we didn't even see but they're just

00:35:58.660 three quick examples so uh look i worked on a a letter that was very modest in its uh design it

00:36:06.920 was basically keying off of the fact that there had been a uh an investigation done by senator ligand

00:36:13.980 a state senator in georgia of election irregularities and fraud and concluded that there was pretty good

00:36:19.960 evidence in those categories took a lot of sworn testimony and live testimony and the letter indicated

00:36:26.460 that under the electors clause of the constitution the georgia legislature could call itself in this

00:36:31.940 special session to do more investigations of the election so that's it they could do more

00:36:36.820 investigations of the election the justice department sends letters to state officials all the time

00:36:42.780 yet when the new york times leaked a private meeting in the oval office uh discussing whether to send that

00:36:50.120 letter and whether to continue me in the spot actually uh mike of being the acting attorney general

00:36:56.260 which is a spot i held for uh nine hours uh before there was a resignation pact launched against me by

00:37:02.920 my former colleagues at the justice department um you know though they uh they didn't want these

00:37:09.480 investigations to take place and uh they threw a kind of hissy fit about it and with only 17 days left

00:37:16.680 to go before the inauguration of joe biden uh they pitched all of this uh anonymously to the new york times

00:37:23.540 and in a series of articles by katie benner they uh postured that president trump and i were engaged in

00:37:29.880 a coup against the united states and the peaceful transition of power which is about the dumbest idea

00:37:35.880 i can imagine but yet you know msnbc cnn uh the new york times these stupid ideas get credence so that's

00:37:43.160 the origin story of my time of troubles mike such as it is tell us the the fallout you've faced as as a

00:37:49.840 lawyer and as an american i mean you have been viciously attacked viciously smeared uh and you've

00:37:57.680 also been legally attacked let's talk about those yes so you know after the anonymous uh anonymously

00:38:04.180 sourced uh new york times hit pieces ran first the house oversight committee under then carolyn

00:38:09.620 maloney came after me eventually they they uh called me up one day and they said we're remanding you

00:38:15.900 into the hands of the january 6th committee uh so that means of course i had problems with the january

00:38:21.260 6th committee i had to be deposed by them twice uh but i did not testify to anything substantive

00:38:27.120 because it's all privileged and then uh also the senate judiciary committee came after me and put out

00:38:33.140 an entire report attacking me uh and then uh under seal for quite a while until july of 2022

00:38:40.740 the dc bar started coming after me and they sent me a subpoena to give them the same documents that

00:38:47.240 i had refused to give the january 6th committee so i told them you don't have to take consistent

00:38:51.320 legal positions these are privileged documents you can't see them and they uh you know eventually

00:38:57.720 took me up to the local court the highest home rule court in dc which if you were viceroy mike you

00:39:03.020 would uh you'd be in charge of that court i would demolish but uh that that uh court actually ruled in

00:39:09.440 my favor uh well never mind i'll keep them so they they they ruled that uh those documents did not be

00:39:15.700 uh didn't have to be handed over because to do that violated my fifth amendment constitutional rights

00:39:20.840 uh so but the the substantive disciplinary proceedings began against me uh in july of 2022

00:39:28.380 and the prior month i had my problems with the garland justice department because they raided my house

00:39:33.980 uh in uh late june of of uh 2022 and the very next day the january 6th committee had an entire hearing

00:39:41.940 focused on attacking me so i have all these congressional committees both in the house and the senate i have

00:39:48.240 the dc bar coming after me and then you know the real uh piece de resistance is the uh uh funny willis

00:39:55.880 making me one of the 19 alleged uh rico co-conspirators in fulton county georgia superior court

00:40:02.440 and then if there there uh is another one to add on jack smith had named me as unindicted co-conspirator

00:40:08.500 number four in his dc action against president trump uh although after the supreme court's immunity

00:40:14.620 decision on july 1st jack smith issued a superseding indictment which is the one that's now live

00:40:20.360 and he dropped me out of that one so thank goodness for uh for small progress how does the

00:40:26.400 supreme court's presidential immunity decision affect all these other cases including the dc bar

00:40:32.340 case and big fanny's case down in georgia uh talk about that sure well i think it it uh has a lot

00:40:39.540 of impact let's uh obviously start with the fact that jack smith thought he couldn't proceed on his

00:40:44.700 prior indictment he had to drop it and generate a new one now he tried to salvage as much of it as

00:40:49.420 possible and i think that judge chutkin is letting him uh you know unfairly strike two blows in a row i

00:40:56.840 called it the equivalent of he's playing white in a chess game he gets the first two moves not just the

00:41:01.860 first move he got to file the superseding indictment and now on thursday and everyone has to really

00:41:06.780 watch for this he's going to launch 180 page brief with various uh excerpts uh it seems of privileged

00:41:13.900 testimony in the uh before the grand jury and other materials he's going to focus apparently on the issue

00:41:20.880 of president trump talking to vice president pence on and around uh january 2nd and 3rd and i i just don't

00:41:28.400 see how he can try to thread the needle to get that superseding indictment through let's just take

00:41:34.200 the vice president's involvement if you're the president and you're talking to your number two

00:41:38.800 the vice president it seems to me that that is uh executive uh branch conduct uh you know to the

00:41:46.680 ultimate and therefore it's something that uh the courts can't second guess and that he has immunity

00:41:52.500 for that we're going to see how jack smith and and judge chuck can try to get around that um also in

00:41:58.500 his case that bragg brought in new york in in manhattan uh we had testimony from hope hicks about

00:42:05.340 uh an oval office meeting there's a principle in the immunity decision that says that i call it the the

00:42:11.560 trump vus exclusionary rule that if you're basically uh talking about internal consultations that happen

00:42:17.880 within the executive branch that's privileged it can't be introduced in court yet evidence like that

00:42:22.840 was introduced in court what bragg is trying to say is that's harmless error but i don't i don't buy

00:42:28.700 that i think it inherently infected the trial i think that whole trial has to be pulled up root and branch

00:42:33.140 at the very least president trump needs a new trial up there and i think it's worse than that because

00:42:37.280 almost certainly they presented hope hicks's testimony to the grand jury which means the entire

00:42:42.800 indictment is affected i really think it needs to be pulled out they need to start from square zero

00:42:47.220 uh in terms of the indictment that fonnie willis brought i think it's the same problem there are

00:42:52.980 you know uh indications there that there were discussions between me and other people inside

00:42:57.840 the just department uh you know with the president there are uh the whole issue of the president trump

00:43:04.140 uh talking about uh you know other electors about um talking to his chief of staff mark meadows these

00:43:11.940 are all things that violate the trump immunity decision the reason why it's not being adjudicated

00:43:17.100 right now is because for most defendants the case is currently frozen at the superior court the trial

00:43:24.100 court level mike it's on appeal uh from nine of us me and president trump being two of those

00:43:30.260 arguing that that the the trial judge wrongfully refused to uh disqualify fonnie willis from that

00:43:37.980 prosecution that appeal is going to be argued in in december so uh let's let's let's talk about that

00:43:43.500 let's talk about big fanny um so big fanny willis hired her dumb unqualified boyfriend nathan wade

00:43:51.700 she uh had a sexual relationship with this boyfriend her her employee her special counsel

00:43:59.740 she paid him what seven hundred thousand dollars in fulton county funds including uh federal covid funds

00:44:07.580 and then she took illegal kickbacks from nathan wade she took illegal kickbacks in the form of these

00:44:13.320 lavish trips around the world she went to belize she went to the caribbean she went to napa she told us

00:44:19.920 she's a gray goose girl and then she lied about it she lied about her relationship with the judge and

00:44:25.380 the problem is is that she has an illegal financial stake in this case because she took kickbacks

00:44:31.680 from her boyfriend to whom she paid seven hundred thousand dollars now these are all allegations of

00:44:37.640 course uh but is that generally the the the substance of the recusal motion that's that's part

00:44:44.820 of it uh but it's not just that that creates uh a conflict of interest and the judge acknowledged

00:44:50.440 the trial judge acknowledged that it created the appearance of a conflict of interest i think it's

00:44:54.080 more than that uh and as uh my lawyer who's the the the main one here uh he has this phrase that uh

00:45:01.960 that i like so i'll borrow it here the magical cash balancing theory the way that she tries to defend

00:45:07.900 herself and nathan wade tried to defend themselves is by saying that uh oh no you know actually there

00:45:13.040 were no benefits flowing back in her direction from the fact that she was paying her boyfriend uh you

00:45:18.660 know rates that i don't think would even be paid to him in the market let alone you know in in

00:45:24.000 this kind of highly scrutinized uh area and he certainly is experience level he hasn't prosecuted

00:45:29.280 cases doesn't compare to that of the other special uh prosecutors that she hired it's far below that

00:45:35.020 is that they say that uh after everything he did uh she basically paid him back in cash because she

00:45:42.220 liked to keep cash around the house and that's what her dad taught her yeah her black panther father

00:45:46.440 told her to keep cash around the house and that she said that she used this cash to pay back nathan

00:45:52.320 wade they went dutch yeah essentially the problem is she doesn't explain how she replenished that cash

00:45:57.860 right right and you know there are no atm receipts there are no you know bank statements uh it's all

00:46:04.880 just on the say so of well that's what we i had a practice of doing that right so okay imagine you

00:46:10.180 know there's the the trip to belize or napper or whatever you know it's let's say the the plane

00:46:14.540 tickets and and uh hotel expenses are like 2500 bucks like okay she just gets there to get off the

00:46:21.300 plane and she's like here nathan here's a here's an envelope with 2500 dollars in it we're square

00:46:26.140 everything we do uh you know is going to be uh you know kosher because of that and we also saw right

00:46:33.660 that she showed up at her daughter's arrest for driving uh without uh a license with a suspended

00:46:40.740 license and nate who shows up but nathan wade right i thought she said she wasn't that nathan wasn't her

00:46:46.340 boyfriend anymore no yeah they got back together apparently yeah yeah and there's not just a

00:46:51.200 magical cash balancing theory there's the magical when did our relationship stop theory and it stopped

00:46:56.480 just before the indictment apparently but uh you know i don't i don't i don't really buy that either

00:47:02.220 i think that all these things are going to be tested and in addition to all these appearance

00:47:05.940 issues right i want to make this point what however whether you have magical cash balancing or not

00:47:11.500 if someone gives you a gift and i i forget the threshold was it a hundred dollars 150 dollars

00:47:16.680 it's something relatively small and certainly her cruises and the napa trip exceeded this like

00:47:21.980 vastly exceeded this you have to report it and her theory to respond in response to that is like

00:47:28.180 oh no no like that's kind of local county law even though it's incorporated against her because she's

00:47:32.840 a county official i'm a constitutional officer under the georgia constitution therefore these things

00:47:39.460 don't bind me i don't i don't think that theory is going to hold water either and so one of the

00:47:44.140 things we've been pressing is that this case is not just about the conflict of interest or the

00:47:48.280 appearance of the conflict of interest it's about the fact that she straight up violated these disclosure

00:47:53.120 laws and isn't it amazing she's bringing charges against the president of the united states and

00:47:59.660 department of justice officials like yourself but she says that she's above the law down in georgia

00:48:06.320 it's just it's very very rich but i would say this i think that i would say that i i just don't know

00:48:11.380 jeff i go back and forth there's seven hundred thousand dollars worth it to nathan waite i mean

00:48:15.780 if you have to if you have to be fanny willis's boyfriend for seven hundred thousand dollars i just i don't

00:48:22.200 know who's getting i don't know who's getting the worst deal there but anyway let's let's turn to

00:48:27.040 the justice department you've talked about all these problems how the justice department the biden harris

00:48:32.900 justice department has been politicized and weaponized against trump his top aides his lawyers

00:48:39.100 their supporters on january 6th you see these democrat prosecutors and these democrat hellholes like

00:48:46.160 new york state with the ag new york city with alvin bragg tish james the ag fanny willis down fulton

00:48:55.500 county georgia uh chris may or whatever whatever the hell her name is uh the arizona ag this is

00:49:02.200 obviously a coordinated uh campaign political lawfare election interference against president

00:49:09.640 trump what needs to happen in a trump 47 justice department to end this lawfare to end this election

00:49:17.120 interference and make sure this never happens again so i think uh two things mike first is that

00:49:23.500 we have to look at these special counsel regulations the special counsel regulations were put in in the

00:49:29.680 clinton administration after congress specifically let the independent counsel statute lapse so they let

00:49:36.880 it sunset deliberately you would think that an administration that saw a statute that was very

00:49:42.120 controversial like that right that that uh you know bit both republicans and democrats but i think was a

00:49:48.260 very serious problem under the separation of powers as justice scalia's dissent and morrison v olsen

00:49:54.000 explains and i know you you well know that that after that statute expired you think you would say to

00:49:59.860 yourself okay like congress doesn't want this kind of a regime we're going to stop now but that's not what

00:50:04.680 happened under uh president clinton and janet reno they decided they were going to try to replicate

00:50:09.280 something very much like the statute under regulations and they put them out on the theory that uh they could

00:50:15.560 just issue these regulations right away because it was an emergency that the independent counsel statute

00:50:20.420 didn't exist anymore which you know to my mind makes no sense it didn't exist because congress didn't

00:50:25.260 want it to exist so these regulations which were written as is now widely known by uh by neil katyal who's a

00:50:33.260 constant figure uh among the journo lawfare uh types that i've i've tried to coin that term and popularize

00:50:39.920 it uh he appears on msnbc a lot he wrote these regulations and we've been living uh under them

00:50:45.520 ever since i think the the constitutionality and the statutory legality of those regulations needs

00:50:52.060 to be revisited and uh we just need to get back to our separation of power system it is the president

00:50:58.920 mike who is the chief of the article 2 branch he is not just the commander-in-chief he is the chief

00:51:05.760 magistrate and uh you know and i'll strike this out uh in controversial terms he is also the chief

00:51:12.060 prosecutor of the united states it's not some you know disembodied uh career bureaucracy inside the

00:51:18.520 justice department whatever post-watergate norms say that was uh merrick garland's big speech a couple

00:51:25.240 weeks back in the great hall of justice to the u.s attorneys we can't abandon these watergate norms

00:51:30.200 and just over the weekend the new york times put out an article and the the article argued that

00:51:36.840 uh that the president doesn't have the power to decide uh how to use the criminal laws and you

00:51:44.500 know we're we're stuck with that i reject that system and uh the the second discussion jeff clark

00:51:51.420 unfortunately we're out of time we will have you back on the war room i want to tell the war room

00:51:56.460 posse this is really important jeff clark has been a warrior for the constitution and for trump

00:52:02.460 he is a soldier on the battlefield he's racked up tremendous legal fees and we should help him go to

00:52:09.760 give send go.com slash jeff clark give send go.com slash jeff clark and please help him and thank you

00:52:21.440 for joining us for another episode of the war room i am mike davis the viceroy the next man up standing in

00:52:30.300 for stephen k bannon who is in the federal clink right now we need to make sure we vote and vote

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WarRoom Battleground EP 619： Trying To Break Clarence Thomas; Fani Willis Conflict Of Interest

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