WarRoom Battleground EP 666： The Media Attacks Won’t Deter MAGA Nominees
Episode Stats
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Summary
Mary and Mary are joined by special guest Rudy Giuliani to discuss the latest on the latest in the Trump administration and what it means for the future of the FBI and the DOJ. They also discuss the possibility of a Supreme Court challenge to the nomination of Christopher Wray as the next FBI Director.
Transcript
00:00:00.000
Mary, let me just show folks, again, this is in their own telling.
00:00:06.660
I mean, people that Donald Trump has explicitly threatened at rallies and in social media posts,
00:00:16.840
I believe a military tribunal was the language he used.
00:00:19.500
He's discussed court-martials for Mark Milley, for Stan McChrystal, for Admiral McRaven.
00:00:26.180
He has talked about prosecutions of Adam Schiff, other prosecutors involved in the cases against him.
00:00:36.960
This is a list of Donald Trump's nominee to be FBI director from his own book.
00:00:47.960
I'll read some of the names of folks that we've covered here.
00:00:52.640
I'll read the names of the people that are Trump's own hires and appointments.
00:00:56.180
Michael Atkinson, Bill Barr, John Bolton, Pat Cipollone, Mark Esper, Stephanie Grisham,
00:01:03.580
Gina Haspel, Charles Kupperman, Ryan McCarthy, Mark Milley, Pat Philbin, Rod Rosenstein, Christopher Wray.
00:01:13.620
Your thoughts about how the Biden administration is taking seriously the things that Donald Trump and his pick to lead the FBI have said about who and how they would target.
00:01:28.300
I think they're taking it seriously because everything we've seen since the results of the election have come in has actually sort of moved us more toward a true and deep-seated concern that he might follow through on some of these threats.
00:01:45.540
And I would say in particular announcing that he intends to fire Christopher Wray, the director of the FBI,
00:01:52.640
and appoint Kash Patel, someone who has his own enemies list, which you've shown there on the screen,
00:01:59.240
and someone who has repeatedly, just like Trump, repeatedly talked about retribution.
00:02:08.400
And I'll note something we talked about the other night when I was on Nicole, which is that Kash Patel has even said,
00:02:14.340
you know, we're coming after you, we're coming after the deep state, we're coming after journalists, and we don't know whether it'll be criminal or civil.
00:02:24.320
That is the tell that it's not based on anything, because to bring a criminal case, you have to have probable cause that a crime is committed.
00:02:31.440
You have to be able to prove that crime beyond a reasonable doubt.
00:02:34.260
To bring a civil case, you have to have a cause of action with an injury and culpability by the person for creating that injury.
00:02:43.660
It's just, these are people that they feel wronged Donald Trump, and they want to go after them.
00:02:50.560
So it's extraordinary to even think the White House would be considering this for people who there's just nothing in the record that would suggest had committed any kind of crimes,
00:03:01.380
because pardons are, it's not required by the Constitution, it's not required by any law that pardons only be given to people who've actually been indicted or prosecuted or convicted of a crime.
00:03:13.520
But it's always been thought to be something of an implicit, when you accept a pardon, something of an implicit admission of guilt to something.
00:03:21.720
And this would be very different, because for people on these lists, I think every one of them believes they've done nothing unlawful that they would deserve any investigation for.
00:03:34.080
And the reason it's being considered is something that Harry said and that others have been talking about today, which is that just launching investigations, bogus or not, really put people through the ringer.
00:03:46.420
It can be financially disastrous to hire attorneys.
00:03:49.800
It can be disastrous to your job, your reputation, your family.
00:03:53.280
So I think that's why they're thinking about this so carefully.
00:04:00.240
I think you're going to be put to the ringer, no doubt, because you committed vast amounts of crimes.
00:04:06.000
By the way, Nicole Wallace, you've got to get better prepped.
00:04:17.020
It's the first film in our new War Room series, warroom.film.
00:04:20.060
I made it before I went to prison for a misdemeanor, I might add.
00:04:25.140
They never say he went for a misdemeanor and went for a traffic ticket for four months to a federal prison.
00:04:35.080
They're in full meltdown, and they're in full meltdown because they know the crimes they did.
00:04:53.240
Rudy, you've got to get that technology down, my man.
00:04:58.940
I guess it would be the same if I had to do it.
00:05:04.100
Cash Patel is actually getting traction in the United States Senate.
00:05:17.100
You've had Cornyn come in and say, hey, Cash Patel is going to be not just nominated.
00:05:24.660
And they're saying because they're checking with people that work with Cash and Devin Nunez when Cash was the chief investigator and then became general counsel.
00:05:35.640
First of all, will Cash Patel be confirmed, as I expect he will be?
00:05:44.000
People I have great respect for, people like Trey Gowdy, have recommended him highly.
00:05:49.280
I am still looking to schedule a meeting with Cash, but I think he certainly has vast experience, including working on the House Intelligence Committee on the Russiagate scam and the Steele dossier scandal.
00:06:08.780
I met with Pam Bondi, the next attorney general, yesterday.
00:06:13.240
So people I know and who I trust speak well of him, and I'm looking forward to meeting with him.
00:06:24.000
To go back to Dave Bossie, the president gets the cabinet and the senior officials he wants, unless there's some horrible aberration.
00:06:33.620
I think all of Biden's got through because Republicans roll over.
00:06:38.080
There's a story in the Hill right now that's, you know, it's the lead story in the Hill.
00:06:43.020
And it's saying that Pete's attempt to be Secretary of Defense is starting to lose altitude, and that Trump's not helping it by having talked to DeSantis.
00:06:56.240
And DeSantis' people, I will tell you, are pushing hard that this thing is imminent.
00:07:02.260
Now, Pete Hexas is up on Capitol Hill, and he's fighting like crazy.
00:07:05.600
So my strongest recommendation for the transition is to start sending a clear message.
00:07:11.880
You've got a lot of people in this audience, a lot of people at Borough and other far-right media.
00:07:18.740
We're proud to be called far-right because the centrists are a bunch of wimps, conservatives, I don't know, not impressed, that are fighting hard for Pete Hexas.
00:07:32.240
It kind of came out of left field, but I think people said, hey, Pete's a warrior, Pete's a fighter.
00:07:37.060
You put some people around him, Pete can do a great job as Secretary of Defense.
00:07:50.800
Absolutely not going to sit there and go, no, but like Lindsey Graham said, and here I am quoting Lindsey Graham on Hannity.
00:07:56.680
But Lindsey Graham said, hey, if somebody's prepared to come to the confirmation hearing and stand and take the oath and give testimony to the senators on the committee, and I think that's armed services, and Lindsey's on that, to give testimony, then they'll hear him out and make a decision.
00:08:11.860
But if it was just anonymous quotes and some things from things that were filed and no crimes, he was never charged with a crime, then, hey, that's kind of water over the bridge, and that's where we are.
00:08:25.620
You know, Pete will take a drink every now and again.
00:08:27.480
But he said, hey, I'm not going to do that anymore during the time of Secretary of Defense.
00:08:30.920
So Hexas, until we hear otherwise, is the individual that's put forward as the nominee, and he's up there heart and soul today.
00:08:41.900
And you have good men like Tuberville and Jim Banks and others are coming out and saying, hey, you know, I support this guy.
00:08:51.720
Jim Banks, a very serious guy, very serious guy in the House.
00:08:54.220
Like I said, Navy, I think, Lieutenant Commander, serious guy in the House, and then a very, very, very serious guy.
00:09:02.340
He just ran for the U.S. Senate and got President Trump's endorsement and had a blowout win in Indiana, and he's looking to put himself to get on Armed Services Committee because he knows so much about this.
00:09:13.020
He just came out with kind of a ringing endorsement.
00:09:20.620
There's some, and I think these leaks, you know, they talk about they don't want leakers.
00:09:25.420
Well, hey, you shouldn't be leaking on Pete Hexas.
00:09:33.000
I will tell you that he has the warrior spirit.
00:09:36.840
Look, people know I'm not exactly a Ronda Santas fan, and here's one of the reasons.
00:09:41.640
Let's just go back in history and talk about how it's going to work.
00:09:45.160
And I said this at the Club 47 the other night.
00:09:47.400
In the darkest days of this entire movement, this movement had the darkest days, were not one that evening when the election was stolen in 20, because it wasn't really stolen for about five days after.
00:10:00.560
I mean, it was in the process of being stolen, but it wasn't really kind of pulled together until that Saturday after, I think, the November 3rd date.
00:10:07.720
The darkest days when President Trump left the White House, left Washington, D.C., and that pathetic ceremony they had on the west steps of the Capitol was just really, was just absolutely pathetic.
00:10:30.700
You know, six degrees of separation, 10 feet of separation.
00:10:37.980
Oh, but no, Fauci should not be investigated for anything.
00:10:42.740
Liz Cheney, certainly nothing on that committee should not be investigated.
00:10:52.040
He came right on Rachel Mowdown and said, I just sat on the Intelligence Committee.
00:10:56.300
There's absolute proof that Donald Trump's, you know, working with the Russians for his victory and now working as a Russian asset, a Russian agent, all lies, total lies.
00:11:14.760
But you see from this show and Cash's book and Cash's movie and others, they're in total meltdown.
00:11:22.980
They finally know that some people on offense, they finally know that some people are not going to tolerate this anymore.
00:11:29.940
That to save this republic, we have to do this and do this, we shall.
00:11:39.280
Now, Pete Hexeth, people have to get back up Pete Hexeth.
00:11:44.500
And when Pete Hexeth has someone like a Jim Banks, who's a, you know, steady Eddie from Indiana, you don't see him out in Indiana lighting their hair on fire.
00:11:55.220
When Jim Banks walks out, they said, I heard Pete.
00:12:00.480
You're hearing other people say, I support this guy.
00:12:04.740
If we get any audio on that or video on that, let me know.
00:12:15.060
And you notice here, by me taking all the time on Pete and all the time on cash, what we're not talking about is the chip shots they're taking on Tulsi Gabbard.
00:12:23.060
They're essentially calling Tulsi Gabbard a Russian asset.
00:12:26.100
It is a bald-faced lie from people who have never put themselves in harm's way.
00:12:30.500
Tulsi Gabbard, Ben Assuri, Tulsi Gabbard, I think is a hero and a brave young woman.
00:12:36.000
And she's going to be one hell of a DNI, director of national intelligence.
00:12:44.440
And you have these people sitting there who have done nothing for their country, snipping at her calling a Russian asset.
00:12:52.300
You know when the White House are working all night about do they give these blanket pardons, preemptive pardons, preemptive pardons.
00:13:02.040
That's how nervous they are about their crimes.
00:13:06.660
Why do you think McCabe's up there wetting himself on TV?
00:13:12.380
They understand Judgment Day was on the 5th of November, and Accountability Day is going to start.
00:13:20.260
They never in a million years, in 10 million years, in 50 million years, ever thought Trump would come back because they were burying him in lawfare.
00:13:50.440
Like that victory, fighting every day, getting nominees through.
00:13:53.900
By the way, nominees are the—this is the easy part, folks.
00:14:03.580
More importantly, they're fantastic people that President Trump wants.
00:14:10.200
When you see, and we're working out right now, what has to happen.
00:14:15.600
Just had Burchard come out, and I guess Vivek and Elon had a discussion today with some of the conference.
00:14:22.900
And Burchard said it and said, hey, what's going to happen?
00:14:25.180
The problem you're going to have is up here with the morass of voting.
00:14:31.540
This is why you got Bill McGinley from the White House.
00:14:33.920
This is why we're going to have pay a letter over at OMB.
00:14:40.540
You got some serious people coming together to make sure there's doge appropriations, the deconstruction of the administrative state, and the radical cutting of costs is all done very smartly.
00:14:53.560
And already the blob, already the cartel is telling them it can't happen, just like they're pushing back on Pete Hexen.
00:14:59.500
If this was a normal just-go-along-to-get-along fella or gal, you wouldn't see any firestorm.
00:15:11.760
If Kash Patel was just some standard stock, stiff you're going to put in charge of the FBI, or even better, one of their criminals like Comey, or you get a guy like Brennan or McCabe, McCabe and Comey,
00:15:24.660
who are criminals, and will be proven to be criminals, and will, in front of a jury, be found guilty as criminals after they're investigated with total transparency and indicted with total transparency, and they will spend a long time in prison.
00:15:39.660
And I will tell you, prison will be quite tough for them.
00:15:46.860
Just the reality of our prison system is going to be quite tough for guys like McCabe.
00:15:51.900
Well, the unctuous, officious McCabe and Comey, they're not going to handle it well.
00:16:15.180
Kash lays in the book who's in the deep state, the executive branch deep state.
00:16:29.860
You'll understand the interconnectivity of the deep state.
00:16:36.620
You'll spit at the end of it right on the floor.
00:16:39.360
You will be so absolutely mad about what you see and what you understand.
00:16:44.720
And Kash Patel is just Kash looking to a camera with a lot of different footage of the interviews
00:17:03.180
If they had any qualms whatsoever, and Kash is starting to get momentum, I can see that.
00:17:09.740
Big story in the Hill right now is that Pete is starting to decelerate.
00:17:12.980
Now, behind the scenes, I'm hearing a different story.
00:17:16.680
And I tell people, we're not going to abandon Pete Hexeth.
00:17:23.840
And until there's some designation, I would tell the transition, hey, guys and gals, this
00:17:32.420
Picking the team and putting up nominees to get nominations, yes, it's time-consuming.
00:17:39.060
But if you look at particularly the legislative schedule with the executive, what you have
00:17:43.760
to do with deportations of 10 million minimum illegal aliens and plus all the criminals,
00:17:50.160
when you look at what's happening with these wars, when you look at what's happening to
00:17:54.140
the balance sheet of the country with the $36 trillion right now and even more than that
00:17:59.180
that's out there, right, and all the non-contingent liabilities, or excuse me, all the contingent
00:18:05.160
liabilities, you're going to have to happen in the economy and how this has to be sequenced
00:18:10.740
And with these thin majorities and these demons trying to fight you every way and the resistance
00:18:16.340
out there, the governors and all these guys going to run, men and women going to
00:18:20.140
run for president of the United States, if you look at internationally, the Chinese Communist
00:18:24.580
Party and others that are trying to resist this, if you look at the bond vigilantes, the
00:18:33.880
And this is what I tell people, just put it all aside.
00:18:41.580
General William Tecumseh Sherman, a simple plan aggressively executed.
00:18:46.320
The simple plan here for the nominees is very simple.
00:18:53.740
And what I would let him do is talk to media, be out there with media, walking through what
00:18:59.900
their plans are, walking through the three or four things they're going to do for President
00:19:03.340
Trump in this second term, and then have at it.
00:19:11.660
When you go through these rums, answer the question.
00:19:26.100
I wish, and I recommend it, Matt Gaetz stick the whole way.
00:19:34.060
Because if Matt Gaetz had still been in there and going through up to Christmas, he'd be
00:19:38.340
drawing so much fire because they would be freaking out he'd be Attorney General.
00:19:41.920
He'd be drawing so much fire, you wouldn't even hear Pete Hex's name.
00:19:47.720
The media, and this is why the concept, the constructs always flood the zone.
00:20:02.020
Well, hey, that's just, it's information warfare.
00:20:05.080
They're doing it all the time, nonstop, relentlessly.
00:20:07.640
Look at this propaganda they're putting up on TV.
00:20:11.940
This is why I say on the confirmation themselves, when we get through this interim period where
00:20:16.100
they're actually going to the Hill and making the first stops and having a cup of coffee
00:20:19.160
and saying, I'm Pete Hex's, here's what I want to do.
00:20:21.660
Then you actually have the committees, whether it's armed service or finance or banking or
00:20:27.260
All the individual committees actually run the confirmation process.
00:20:39.420
But when they come for the confirmation themselves, I'm a huge believer that they get all the big
00:20:46.400
Then the lobbyists take them out for their first free steak dinner and then get right
00:21:09.160
Hell, Alex Wagner and Chris Hayes, they cry and whine about it every night.
00:21:16.100
They're not defensible, particularly in the current state.
00:21:22.660
This situation with the administrative state and the deep state, this American empire that
00:21:27.400
nobody ever planned on, is metastasizing and really a leviathan that's out of control.
00:21:35.720
And this is what, you know, conservatives talk about, you know, I want limited government.
00:21:39.520
Well, baby, you ain't going to get limited government unless you go in and take a trenching
00:21:45.700
They're just not going to sit there and go, oh, you want limited government?
00:21:54.260
And this is my point about, let's not go through more of the madness of doing all these individual
00:22:00.180
appropriations bills and getting to a number that's got a six in front of it, a six handle,
00:22:05.800
and then have the Doge guys say, hey, we promised Trump we're going to take a trillion dollars
00:22:12.540
And let's not pass something that goes through the total, we go through every page of this
00:22:17.460
thing, every page, just stop it, get the Doge guys.
00:22:22.100
And you're seeing a really, a killer team being put together.
00:22:28.740
You've got OMB and Russ Vogt and that team over there as good as you got, pound for pound,
00:22:32.620
the best, pound for pound as good as anything that MAGA brings to the table, anything Trump
00:22:37.400
brings to the table, the standards over there at OMB just is.
00:22:42.160
And Russ Vogt, a quiet guy, intense guy, a guy who knows urgency.
00:22:52.780
You combine that with Vivek and Elon and the team, they're bringing together a professor.
00:22:57.320
You're throwing a Bill McGinley, a couple, three great lawyers that kind of anchor it
00:23:07.440
These are the types of things that we can accomplish.
00:23:10.100
And all they're trying to do is chop block us every day and pay attention to, oh, you know,
00:23:14.420
Pete Hegseth, you know, took a, you know, had a couple of three beers at a strip club.
00:23:30.120
One thing we're doing here is we love to give you the big ideas because ideas have consequences.
00:23:37.900
A lot of this thing, you know, people running around, putting together, blah, blah, blah, blah.
00:23:40.880
We like to get you the big idea and see how it flows through a system.
00:23:45.320
And then that's how you understand of what the problems with the system are, what the possibilities
00:23:49.660
and potentialities of a systems are in process.
00:23:53.760
This concept of modern monetary theory is one of the biggest ideas that's come into kind of,
00:23:58.900
not just modern finance, but modern life in the last, I don't know, 50 years.
00:24:06.420
I'm probably pronouncing that wrong, but Thomas Piketty, I think it was, professor, wrote a book
00:24:13.400
And I think when the margin call happens on the $300 trillion of debt we have worldwide,
00:24:19.940
it will go down as one of the most redonkulous things that people ever believed.
00:24:26.720
What we're doing now at Birch Gold, the Birch Gold team's helping me.
00:24:30.660
I think it'll be the eighth free installment at the end of the dollar empire.
00:24:35.620
Why are we, you know, with everything we got going on, why are we spending time with this?
00:24:43.400
Because you, ladies and gentlemen, are the war room posse.
00:24:46.380
And at the very mention of your name, you strike fear into the established order.
00:24:56.800
They can't play games with you because you kind of have learned what the games are.
00:25:02.260
Learn the system first before you want to change the system.
00:25:06.000
So we're going to come out with modern monetary theory, the idea that broke the world.
00:25:11.800
And we're going to make sure you understand it fully because all the fights, the debt ceiling, boom, the debt ceiling deal expires.
00:25:25.960
Thank you for the holiday gift, the gift that keeps on giving.
00:25:34.340
Get the other, I think, seven or eight installments all free.
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Philip Patrick and the team over there will talk to you about gold as a hedge.
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Find out how it can protect you in times of turbulence.
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I think we're going to go through some turbulence.
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I look at what's happened in Syria, the Red Sea, the South China Sea.
00:26:07.440
Or you can go to Bannon, get your phone at Bannon at 9-8-9-8-9-8.
00:26:12.200
In addition, if you like the geopolitics and capital markets, Jim Rickards.
00:26:15.980
And thank God, Rickards may be the one contributor that sticks around that doesn't go in the administration.
00:26:22.700
Rickards, go to RickardsWarRoom.com, all one word.
00:26:27.640
You get his newsletters, access, newsletters, books, all of it.
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At Rickards, that's what that asks, WarRoom.com.
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Okay, Johnny, Johnny Kahn's going to take us out here with American Heart.
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A CEO of an insurance company was gunned down yesterday in cold blood.
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Now the work can finally start on the big issues facing the country.
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When will it be malpractice to diagnose a patient without AI in the loop?
00:30:41.620
Your answer, within five years, within 10 years, within 20 years, or never?
00:30:52.060
Some of these complicated diagnoses, why would you not just search it?
00:30:59.380
I would say practically within five years, when the legal system evolves is a different
00:31:06.560
I'm like, I'm going to push it hard as I can, as soon as I can.
00:31:13.100
Have you ever wondered what happens when artificial intelligence, the marvel of our age, is misused?
00:31:19.220
What if the largest health insurance company in the United States, United Health, uses a
00:31:25.220
flawed AI algorithm to wrongfully deny critical health coverage to the elderly?
00:31:30.080
This is exactly what has been alleged in a lawsuit filed against UnitedHealthcare.
00:31:36.040
The algorithm at the center of this controversy is called NH-Predict, developed by a subsidiary
00:31:46.640
To estimate the post-acute care needed by patients on a Medicare Advantage plan, including the date
00:31:59.380
Former employees of NaviHealth, including Amber Lynch, have come forward to shed light
00:32:07.360
According to them, ever since the use of AI, the company's focus shifted from patient advocacy
00:32:12.980
to performance metrics, with an emphasis on keeping post-acute care as short as possible.
00:32:18.900
We are following new developments out of New York City on the search for a gunman who shot
00:32:26.640
and killed the CEO of UnitedHealthcare, Brian Thompson.
00:32:31.080
CBS News also confirms law enforcement found shell casings at the crime scene with the words
00:32:53.040
What started off to look like a kind of a mob hit on a guy, on an executive walking down
00:32:58.840
the top of an insider trading, all these other issues, now may even take a darker and, quite
00:33:05.420
frankly, more meaningful as people are saying, what's going on here?
00:33:08.160
So walk me through, why would AI, which you're the world's expert, and you told us in your
00:33:13.800
book, Dark Aeon, these are the types of things that are going to come up in the future.
00:33:17.940
Why would artificial intelligence that looked like it was there just for some efficiencies
00:33:22.080
related to, you know, your insurance claims or insurance process, why would that be now the dark
00:33:28.040
specter over this assassination of a chief executive officer at 6.45 a.m. in Midtown Manhattan, sir?
00:33:37.120
Well, Steve, the shooter's motives, obviously, we don't know.
00:33:42.720
I think it's very likely that he's caught, and we'll know a lot more in the future.
00:33:47.080
But what a lot of people are assuming, especially given the words engraved on the shell casings,
00:33:54.880
is that this was basically a disgruntled lone wolf, or at least made to appear as one.
00:34:01.900
As you saw in the video, the words deny, defend, depose were on the shell casings that mirrors,
00:34:09.260
to some extent, a book that was published recently, Delay, Deny, Defend, why insurance companies
00:34:17.880
don't pay claims and what you can do about it. I think that's pretty clear what the guy was
00:34:27.700
But hang on a second. Hang on a second. I say this all the time. I say, hey, one of the reasons
00:34:32.920
insurance companies are some of the most profitable of what I refer to as financial institutions
00:34:37.920
is that they're in the business, whether they want to admit it or not, they're in the business
00:34:43.480
of not paying claims, right? I mean, they're in the business of making sure that, hey, by the absolute
00:34:48.700
letter of that insurance policy, it qualifies. And their biggest thing is to make sure that they can
00:34:55.820
get off the hook at any time possible. Am I wrong in that?
00:35:00.140
Absolutely, that's correct. And you can really see this in the public sentiment.
00:35:05.160
Think back to the attempted assassination on Trump and the way the public reacted. Enormous amounts of
00:35:11.380
support, obviously, from Trump supporters and many people who weren't Trump supporters. And yeah,
00:35:15.980
there was a lot of gloating, a lot of kind of morbid commentary online, but nothing even close to
00:35:22.020
what we're seeing around this shooting. This is almost entirely a celebration of this guy's
00:35:27.400
killing. And he was actually killed as opposed to Trump. The reason goes to exactly what you're
00:35:32.660
talking about. Insurance companies are in the business of making money. Their profits oftentimes
00:35:37.980
depend on efficiencies that are going to lead to people either not getting sufficient care or dying,
00:35:45.080
or at least that the families will have to pay for it. So you can, you know, United Health,
00:35:51.040
like why would this guy, Brian Thompson, be the target of either a disgruntled shooter or whatever
00:35:56.620
else may be going on there? Well, United Health Group, which is over United Health Care, is they
00:36:04.600
acquired in 2020, a subsidiary called Navi Health. Navi Health is employing the NH predict AI algorithm
00:36:15.280
to determine who is and who isn't qualified for insurance coverage. That especially includes
00:36:22.720
Medicaid and Medicare Advantage. So Medicare Advantage obviously is the partnership between Medicare and
00:36:31.280
private insurance companies like United Health Care. So again, we don't know that this is exactly why
00:36:38.720
the shooter did it. But we do know that this company was at the center of two lawsuits by two separate
00:36:44.720
families in which their loved ones were booted from rehab centers due to the algorithm's decision
00:36:52.960
as to whether or not they should be given coverage. And so these families ended up owing well over $100,000
00:37:00.480
in one case and $75,000 in the other. And so you know that it's very likely that this is at least going
00:37:08.180
through the shooter's mind. And certainly it's out there in the public. Now, for me, Steve, I think it also
00:37:14.180
speaks to this wider issue of artificial intelligence being suffused at all levels of society and human
00:37:21.620
beings coming to rely on artificial intelligence both for the information that the humans use to
00:37:28.180
make decisions, but also it's become increasingly a way to kind of pass off liability. If you take humans
00:37:35.860
out of the loop, then you can either maybe pass off the liability to the producer of the algorithm
00:37:42.500
itself, or in this case, at the very least, you don't have human beings with hearts, with a conscience
00:37:48.580
that are going to at least raise questions. Now, in the case of NaviHealth, under United Health Care,
00:37:56.420
you did have a lot of employees that tried to deviate from the algorithm's prediction as to,
00:38:01.940
or the algorithm's recommendation as to what to do. But the company instructed the employees not to
00:38:08.340
deviate more than 1% within the range the algorithm's putting out, which just shows you,
00:38:15.940
this is one of many thousands of companies that are either beginning to do this or have been doing it
00:38:22.340
for years. It shows you that you have the authority of algorithms, the authority of artificial intelligence
00:38:30.420
being put above human beings who, again, ideally, have some sense of decency, some sense of moral
00:38:38.900
value, who would be much less likely to make that kind of calculation. So is that why, you know,
00:38:43.540
Steve, if I could fantasize my own kind of conspiracy theory around this, it would be, you know,
00:38:49.460
incredible to find out that this guy was in fact inspired by AI, you know, determined patients being
00:38:57.700
kicked out of the hospitals, that the shooter maybe had a loved one that was, you know,
00:39:01.700
kicked out for that reason, that the shooter used AI to find his target. And of course, if AI,
00:39:06.980
like Clearview AI, was used to apprehend the shooter, yeah, that would be the perfect story.
00:39:11.380
But again, that's just me dreaming up possible stories. For right now, what we do know, A, this guy
00:39:17.940
obviously had an axe to grind, and B, the public, a large swath of the public is completely behind
00:39:25.780
him. The hatred for these companies is so strong that this guy is being portrayed as a hero.
00:39:32.660
That itself should raise a lot of alarm bells, especially if the copycat effect is a thing.
00:39:38.420
I think we'll see another series of shootings that are similar to it, maybe not so worthy of
00:39:43.860
celebration. And I've warned people, I've warned these donors and the wealthy that, you know,
00:39:48.980
the system has to be radically changed. If people just treat it like garbage or think they're treated
00:39:55.140
like garbage, you're going to have like a French Revolution. I don't want that. I want to avoid
00:40:01.060
it. That's why I'm working, I spend my life working for this, and we just won, you know,
00:40:04.900
with democratic means on November 5th to make changes. This is why I have to make changes,
00:40:09.140
to establish order. But I want to make sure everybody understands this. Let's go back.
00:40:13.860
Uh, algorithm is just a mathematical formula. So you're saying right now, and you've warned
00:40:18.180
about this, that the algorithm, and you've warned about this in national defense. I mean,
00:40:22.500
Henry Kissinger in his latest book warned about this, that the algorithm itself and the ability
00:40:28.180
of the computer to process so quickly and so much data and so much information actually makes that
00:40:34.340
algorithm the, uh, the thing that rules everything. How did it work in insurance claims? Why,
00:40:39.620
why would, why would, uh, this person, if this is the case, why would people or they're holding this
00:40:46.260
person up as a hero when essentially he gunned down a human being, he laid in wait and gunned down a
00:40:54.740
human being at point blank range and in cold blood. Why would people say it's a hero? What, what is it,
00:41:01.620
what does the algorithm do that denies people more than if they actually were justified to get,
00:41:08.820
is it cheating people out of something? Is it, is it, is it weighted, uh, to the fact of getting them,
00:41:15.700
not fulfilling their coverage in their insurance policy they paid for to get the medical treatments
00:41:21.380
they need? Is that what the algorithm is doing? Is it, it can be gamed that way?
00:41:27.540
In essence, yes. What you have in the case of say an artificial intelligence system like
00:41:32.980
NH predict that is being used for this purpose, it's being trained. It's not programmed so much as
00:41:39.780
it's trained. That's really important to remember. It's not like somebody is going in and by hand,
00:41:45.700
putting in the, all the data and telling it what to do. They basically create an algorithm. The
00:41:50.420
algorithm goes over things such as case histories, going back as far as their records, and then
00:41:56.820
finding patterns as to how likely any given instance will match the previous case histories.
00:42:04.660
So that in the case, say there was a gentleman, Gene Locken in, uh, Wisconsin. He was, his family
00:42:11.700
was one of the families that came forward with a lawsuit against, uh, United healthcare and Navi
00:42:18.020
health. And what happened, he'd fallen, he'd broken his leg. He was in a rehab facility. And according
00:42:24.100
to the lawsuit, the, uh, the insurance company basically ran his case through the algorithm. And the
00:42:30.820
algorithm is in trying to match his case to previous cases to see what the likelihood of his recovery
00:42:37.700
is, what the, the likeliest time that should be allotted for that recovery is. And the algorithm
00:42:42.740
said three weeks, he was then kept in the facility, but the family had to pay. And then he died later
00:42:48.420
in the facility. The whole point being the algorithm is trained and the algorithm has a certain degree of
00:42:53.780
freedom and flexibility, but you can always put these layers on top that are going to steer it
00:43:00.340
towards efficiency, meaning it's going to steer it towards denying coverage rather than towards
00:43:07.700
keeping the coverage intact. It gets even more disturbing in my mind when it's applied in,
00:43:14.740
in actual diagnosis. So it's, it's still, it's kind of similar. You have a diagnostic AI that's been
00:43:21.700
trained on all of these different cases. It's been trained to find patterns, uh, in, in various
00:43:27.860
different disease categories and so on and so forth. So that when a doctor is asking the AI,
00:43:33.220
that doctor is going to say, okay, my patient has whatever, uh, difficulty breathing. My,
00:43:38.020
my patient has pain in the chest, so on and so forth. The AI is going to take all of those criteria,
00:43:43.540
look, search through its database, so to speak, and try to match that, that those symptoms with the
00:43:49.940
disease. Now, oftentimes this is very successful, but the, one of the real problems with all of this
00:43:55.300
is that the AI companies and the companies adopting these AI companies talk about it
00:43:59.620
like it's some sort of God, like it's some kind of genie that you can ask for wishes. Uh, the,
00:44:04.740
the accuracy of these algorithms is really in question. In the case of, uh, the insurance
00:44:10.980
companies, you had 90% of court cases that have gone to, to argue that these algorithms were inaccurate,
00:44:18.740
were settled in the, in the, uh, uh, uh, favor of the plaintiff, meaning that you, you could say
00:44:23.700
as is often put in headlines that in all those cases, the AI was 90% accurate, inaccurate, inaccurate.
00:44:30.420
Uh, so whether it's, it's that extreme or not, it's certain that these algorithms are not perfect.
00:44:36.580
And yet the more human beings, whether they be doctors or whether they be someone who is reviewing
00:44:42.180
an insurance claim, the more human beings are trained to look to the algorithm as a source of
00:44:48.260
authority. As we heard Peter Diamandis and Dr. Oz saying, how long before someone is considered to
00:44:55.380
be negligent, uh, for not using AI in the diagnosis process. And you heard Oz say a year, you heard
00:45:02.020
Peter Diamandis say five years. What that shows is that within the medical community, there's at least a
00:45:08.980
strong push to turn every doctor, every nurse, everyone at every stage of the system where it's
00:45:15.140
possible into a human AI symbiote. And it's conferring the social authority onto the algorithm
00:45:23.300
and away from the human. I I'm, I'm glad to see any case where the AI works out, but I think the more
00:45:29.780
we go down this road, the closer we get to a situation in which human beings have atrophied their
00:45:36.420
own intuitions and their own reasoning and have basically turned that over outsourced their
00:45:43.140
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Do we have time to play your second? Well, I'll tell you what, we'll play that tomorrow. I'm going
00:47:55.860
to get you back on it. Let me ask you, there's a book, Deny, Defend, Depose. That's what sent chills
00:48:02.020
down, chills in this. And your report that the overwhelming number of comments, and it may say
00:48:08.580
something about society, is kind of rooting this guy on as a Robin Hood. Is that what I'm hearing,
00:48:14.020
is that people are actually taking side of a cold-blooded murderer who gunned down an executive,
00:48:20.420
and it didn't, you know, it didn't shoot him amount of amount of weight, laid in weight, came up and
00:48:25.860
backing him with a silencer, and gunned him down, and shot him in the back, which is not
00:48:32.020
traditionally the American way of the West, where you call a guy out, you face him, and you shoot him
00:48:36.260
there. Your thoughts, the book itself, the book is about people who have had problems in this area
00:48:44.340
before Joe Allen? Yes, and you know, just to put it out front, I mean, I get the sentiment, but I am in
00:48:54.660
no way feeling exultant about some guy getting shot, whom I don't know, by some guy whom I don't know,
00:49:02.660
and it absolutely says a lot about where American society is, how morbid and gleeful this sort of,
00:49:10.340
you know, death entertainment has become, when which actual people dying becomes a source of
00:49:15.700
entertainment. But that doesn't mean that that sentiment that is most likely behind the shooting,
00:49:22.500
and absolutely behind the commentary, isn't legitimate. You have all of these companies,
00:49:29.140
oftentimes in partnership with the government, as in this case of UnitedHealthcare and Medicaid
00:49:35.380
Advantage, you have this system that puts efficiency and profit over human beings,
00:49:43.780
that is increasingly functioning like a machine, that is increasingly turning to machines to make
00:49:51.380
these anti-human decisions. And so I think the public outcry, however twisted and morbid it may be,
00:49:58.100
definitely strikes at the heart of one of the major legitimate problems we have in the US,
00:50:04.180
which is that these companies do not care about you, and the government doesn't either. We have an
00:50:09.300
opportunity now with our people in to ensure that this doesn't happen. HHS, the Department of Treasury,
00:50:16.660
that is over these private insurance companies. We have an opportunity to put pressure on them and
00:50:22.100
do the right thing. It's at least in our hands at this point. Joe, where do the people go to get
00:50:28.820
all your content, including Dark Aeon, the book that it really lays us all out?
00:50:32.580
Sign copies at Jobot.xyz or DarkAeon.xyz. And by the way, Steve, I'm sure you know, I began using
00:50:43.620
Aeon instead of Eon in your absence. I felt like it would be passive aggressive to pronounce it in
00:50:49.060
my own quirky way. So DarkAeon.xyz. Sign copies.
00:50:54.020
I love you, brother. Joe Allen, our editor of all things. Singularity, I guess it is.
00:51:02.980
More than artificial intelligence. AmFest. Go to AmFest right now, the 19th, I think, to the 22nd
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In fact, some of the guests I've had on the warroom believe that the government will soon expand their
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