WarRoom Battleground EP 756： CCP's Ties With Elite Education
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Summary
Natalie Winters joins us from the White House to talk about the growing relationship between China and the U.S. military and intelligence services, including China's relationship with Harvard University and the Chinese Communist Party, and the relationship with the Chinese government.
Transcript
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Pray for our enemies, because we're going medieval on these people.
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I got a free shot at all these networks lying about the people.
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I know you've tried to do everything in the world to stop that,
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And where do people like that go to share the big lie?
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I wish in my soul, I wish that any of these people had a conscience.
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Ask yourself, what is my task and what is my purpose?
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If that answer is to save my country, this country will be saved.
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Natalie, I think momentarily we may be getting a feed.
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So I think we may be jumping into the old form of maybe a press avail.
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But we just had Robert O'Brien, you know him, the national security virus, the last one for President Trump,
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talking about India, the Chinese Communist Party.
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I had an interview today with Steve Inscape of NPR,
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and I kind of went off on the fact that at these universities,
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I don't think we're being tough enough with about the 350,000 Chinese national students that are here,
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the additional personnel they have in the national weapons labs.
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And some of these labs are paying for, for research, have Chinese nationals here.
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What are your thoughts about this situation at Harvard, ma'am?
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Well, look, I think whenever we talk about Chinese Communist Party, foreign infiltration ops,
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there's obviously a lot of focus on how they try to abstain from things turning kinetic,
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because they say if you turn it kinetic, you've essentially already lost.
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But I think what the important part is what you're really getting at,
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what I think we're seeing going on, or at least what we saw at the southern border,
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and even today I'd flag what's going on in the South China Sea, right?
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China planting a flag on a Philippine island, just a dispute going on there.
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But you're seeing this fusion, I think, between their sort of typical tactics
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More in the information, economic, psychological, lawfare.
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That's, of course, their three-warfares doctrine.
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But you're almost seeing this convergence of it becoming kinetic in this sort of roundabout way.
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And Harvard, I think, is a perfect example of how the American people,
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it's not just that they're being misled, but they're being intentionally, I think, deceived,
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not exactly by the Chinese Communist Party, but by the American experts that they're sort of propping up.
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But they like to launder their narratives, their talking points through Westerners,
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through trusted American, shall I say, media outlets like the ones that I'm standing by.
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But Harvard is a perfect example, as a, at least in the CCP worldview,
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of being an elite institution carrying some weight, some class in terms of influencing American political discourse.
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They have collaborated with one of the premier United Front Work Department organizations
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by the name of the China United States Exchange Foundation.
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Now, the United Front Work Department is the very systematic and calculated political warfare operation
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that emanates out of Beijing to the tune of billions of dollars.
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Think Hunter Biden, but on an industrial scale.
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And I know we'd like to talk about a lot of these universities collaborating with the Chinese Communist Party
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The Confucius Institutes were shuttered under President Trump.
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That's the Chinese Students and Scholars Association,
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which is where there's more direct espionage efforts going on.
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But just two weeks ago, if you can believe it, Harvard and actually Columbia
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were having their sort of annual China conference.
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And guess who not only what their closing speaker was,
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but who their main partner in terms of sponsoring this event was?
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Now, just to go back real quick, QSEF has a very long pattern of collaborating,
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particularly with Harvard, also UChicago, a lot of America's top universities,
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in terms of flying students overseas, training them, having them meet,
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in some cases even with PLA officials, touring Huawei offices, meeting with sanctioned companies
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It really is a horrible program and tactic that they use to co-opt a lot of these Western elites.
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But I think the important point is that in the same world in which our taxpayer dollars
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are going to subsidize Harvard University, they're concurrently taking billions of dollars.
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And the disclosure is such that you'll never really know.
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It's sort of the, you know, counter to, I guess, the act blue dark money, but it's by design.
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But the Chinese Communist Party is still, as of two weeks ago, publicly sponsoring events
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And they also do the Harvard Kennedy School Conference, too.
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And frankly, Steve, the buried lead is that it's so in your face.
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That means that they know they've bought off the highest, the upper echelons of the United
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States, of our society, that they can get away with doing it.
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Now, when I talk about banning the students, Harvard's addicted to two things, maybe three
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U.S. federal taxpayer money to keep different programs going.
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Chinese Communist Party, massive infusion of cash, right, from programs, and probably Qatar.
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There's a study out that says, is it $29 billion, the Chinese Communist Party in Qatar alone,
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those two have put with major U.S. universities?
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Our universities that used to be some of the most cherished institutions in our countries
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This is why at Columbia you had 60% foreign students.
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They've got to purge the—and anybody that's a collaborator with the Chinese Communist Party
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All the kids—and some of these kids are innocent, the Chinese national kids, but right
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now, while they've got to sign that pledge, they have to report every 30 days.
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And you've got to open those slots up for American kids.
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We've got to cut the money off from the Chinese.
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The Chinese Communist Party, we're in an economic war with them right now.
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Now, that sandbar that people—you know, the mainstream, oh, it's just a sandbar.
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They are laying a stake to one of the islands as small as the sandbar or a toll
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to make a statement against the Philippines that they're in charge of the South China Sea.
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And you've got the, what, nine-dotted—the nine-dotted, you know, map or chart
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that shows it's an inland sea to mainland China.
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And President Trump, you said it perfectly, the Sun Tzu part, if they have to go kinetic,
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they think they've lost, so they're going to do everything else except kinetic.
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And the thing they do most is that they know the foreign leaders can be bribed and bought off.
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Not only are the American elites can be bought off, they can be bought off pretty cheaply,
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Yeah, I mean, I think the whole Confucius Institute issue is sort of the limited hangout version
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in terms of what is going on on these college campuses.
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But I think if you even extrapolate more broadly what you're talking about, which I agree,
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If not, I would say veering into the territory of kinetic warfare for a very long time.
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But even if you take away, if you say, OK, maybe these students aren't affiliated directly
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with the Chinese Communist Party, but table that for a second, we still shouldn't be educating
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and training and imparting, let alone a country with a history, repeated history at that of
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intellectual property theft and industrial espionage, with the secrets, with the trades,
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with industry, with tips, with the brightest, though I don't know if the professors at Harvard
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are necessarily the brightest, but we should not be educating the very people who will then
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be competing with American companies, maybe in the boardrooms, but also maybe when it comes
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And to that point, I think people don't understand that what the Chinese Communist Party is doing
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in every facet of American society, I mean, to call it war is an understatement.
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If you read their military doctrine, which people recall, this is what I got my start in in terms
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of the investigative reporting, they have very, very calculated, the most heavily cited quote
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throughout their military doctrine is to subdue, the supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy
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without fighting. And that three warfares doctrine that I was talking about, it's psychological
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warfare, media warfare, and lawfare. And all of that together is how China has, I would argue,
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essentially taken over at least the Achilles heel of the United States, which is our ruling class.
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But I just don't think that the people who are messaging on China, right, in the legacy media,
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they will never understand the threat, partly because they're paid off, and we've exposed
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time and time again, the trips that they've paid to take these journalists on in exchange for
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favorable coverage. But the key point that I would make, too, for anyone who thinks it's so imperative
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that we somehow replace the people who are going to, you know, replace your children or eventually go
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to war with us, any company, any business, any person, anybody who is even tangentially linked
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to China is Chinese to the Chinese Communist Party. They're subject to Article 7 of China's national
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intelligence law, which stipulates that at any moment, for any purpose, for any reason, very
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broad scope there, under essentially any purview, they can be requisitioned by the state, by Chinese
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Ministry of Intelligence, by their spy services, to do whatever the Chinese Communist Party can please.
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And if you know that that's a thing, I have no idea why you would be importing to the tune of hundreds
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of thousands of foreign students onto these college campuses, where you see it time and time again,
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people being indicted, arrested for stealing research secrets, for not disclosing that
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they're being funded by the Chinese Communist Party. And your previous guest, Robert O'Brien,
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what he really did that was so revolutionary during Trump one was that he really focused on enforcing
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Farrah and overhauling that and using that as sort of a touchstone or at least a guiding light
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to go after what are the, as we speak, active 200 plus registered foreign agents on behalf of the
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Chinese Communist Party. When we talk about the lobbying firms and the law firms, part of the way
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that China has been able to co-opt the city is that explicitly tied to whether it's Beijing
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municipal services or Shanghai, name your city, these cities will retain Western law firms or lobbying
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firms, the ones on K Street that I'm not too far from, and they'll lobby for them for sort of, you know,
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meaningless, paltry issues. But the real point is that they're on the payroll. Not only are they probably
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hacking all their devices, but they are then for all the rest of the American and Western corporate
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clients that they're working on behalf of, they're not going to compromise or come after the clients
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who are also paying them. I think one of the most staggering and stunning statistics from the
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entirety of Trump one was when they classified, it was over, I believe, 25 Chinese companies as
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military collaborators, which, you know, military civil fusion, it's not just an industry thing. It's a
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science thing. We know the Wuhan Institute of Virology. But of those 20, 25 companies, four or
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five of them had active Western lobbyists working on their behalf, trying to get them government
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contracts, trying to, you know, protect their image in the Western press. That's, if you extrapolate
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that out to every Chinese company, that's extremely damaging. But all of this stuff is very well
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rehearsed. And I think that most people are really naive. Yes. Hang on. I want to make sure
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the audience gets a full impact of this. They're lobbying to get U.S. government contracts. Think
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about that for a second, folks. As if your pension fund hasn't been the private equity and hedge fund
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money that shipped the jobs over there, that your tax money is not keeping this madness going,
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that they have retained lobbyists to get government defense contracts. I mean, it's insane. You can't
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say, I mean, they're at a war with us. They must think we're idiots. We fund it. We let them steal the
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technology, or we train them up in it, or we just look the other way. If our companies, to get access
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to their market, have to form joint ventures, the first thing they have to dump in is their
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intellectual property. I mean, it's open season on the Americans. Explain just as a tutorial. Just go
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back. Explain to folks, when you say a United Front entity or United Front effort, what does United
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Front mean? Sure. So this is actually a branch. It's led by the Chinese People's Political Consultative
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Conference. So this group oversees their foreign outreach efforts, not just limited to the United
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States, and not even limited to the Western world. It's sort of, I would say, the political
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institutionalization of what they attempted to do with the Belt and Road, the 140-plus countries that
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signed on to that. That was using infrastructure and ports as leverage. The United Front Work
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Department uses business deals, putting spouses on the payroll, in some cases blackmail, trips to China.
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But a lot of these very euphemistic-sounding organizations, a lot of various city-level
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federation for return Chinese overseas, the whole sister cities scam, the Chinese Association for
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International and Friendly Contact, the Chinese People's Association for Foreign Contact. They have
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these very innocuous but funny-sounding names, but they're very calculated. And I would say just my
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overview, having tracked this stuff, people can probably tell I geek out on this, but in the early
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2000s, like after they joined the WTO and were really focusing on the economic warfare stuff,
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they were very content, I would argue, with just sort of shaping and astroturfing the narrative
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about what exactly constituted China's rise. And they wanted China to be looked at by the rest of
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the world as a model, you know, that they were a great country, they lifted all these people out of
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poverty. But post-Trump entering office, and maybe even a little before that, I think that the
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influence ops sort of shifted where they were no longer content just shaping the narratives around
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China. But that was when you really saw them, I think, start to do the more cultural subversion stuff
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here in the West. And that's when you really get into the, you know, fifth dimension, fifth kind of
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generation warfare, where by having, you know, by co-opting politicians who will push for immigration
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policies that lead to an open border, you then allow military-aged Chinese males with ties to
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the PLA to enter your country through that porous border. When you have lax politicians who won't
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enforce agricultural laws, that's how you see China buying up farmland. That's how you see politicians
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who won't call out Chinese spy balloons. That's how you co-opt an entire scientific community to give
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our tax dollars to the Wuhan Institute of Virology. That's how, you know, and the list goes on,
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right? Take your pick. Hollywood's a perfect example of that. And academia, going back to Harvard,
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Harvard is also a perfect example of that because, you know, all of these stupid research papers and
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white papers that they put out, there's no meaning to them. It's not like these researchers are sitting
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around wanting to write, you know, dozens of pages about useless, woke stuff. Those are then used to
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lobby members of Congress to adopt certain positions. And when the Harvard Ash Center is literally being
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funded by Chinese Communist Party-owned enterprises, and in some cases, I mean, Harvard, Xi Jinping's
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daughter lives in Boston and goes to Harvard. You know what I mean? It's absurd, the level of
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compromise, but the boldness of it shows you how deeply embedded they actually are. I mean,
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there's a person who is right now a professor emeritus or whatever at the Naval War College,
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who I exposed years ago for visiting and going to the Shanghai Academy for Social Sciences,
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which our own intelligence services have flagged as being the hotbed for how the Chinese Communist
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Party flags and finds Western spies who will leak documents to them. And we've seen several CIA people
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leak documents. They have established channels. So if a stupid, you know, Naval War professor is
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able to do that and Naval War College is able to do that and get away with it, this goes all the way
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to the top of society. The idea that this is just, you know, Western greed and lust for the Chinese
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market, that's part of it. Maybe that works with Mark Zuckerberg, though I'd argue he's
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compromised too. But this is very, very, very calculated. It's why I was able to have the
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investigative career that I had at the age of 19, because there was so much to report on that no one
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ever wanted to get into because they were bought off and paid for by them.
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Given your professional expertise, what do you think it's going to take to put a blowtorch to this
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So I would start by Congress subpoenaing every Western lobbying firm that has worked on behalf of
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a Chinese Communist Party linked company to get all the documents, to get the names of the people that
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they collaborated with, the journalists that went on these trips, the think tankers, the students,
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just get the names first. And then from there, I think you can kind of reverse engineer who's up to
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no good. But I would have a zero tolerance policy for a lot of these people who have any affiliation
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with these Chinese Communist Party United Front Work Department groups. The CCP, as I always described,
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is radioactive. They're toxic. Once you are awash in their influence ops, you don't escape.
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I also think that I would say I maybe perhaps disagree with DOJ's decision to
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water down some of the FARA registration. I actually think FARA is an important statute.
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I don't necessarily think that what it currently is is all that great. I would have reformed it
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before getting it out. But I think that they should more intensely enforce FARA operations and
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make these universities have to disclose their funding. I think that first and foremost and have
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them make the case to the American people while they're taking and actually, believe it or not,
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training leaders from the Xinjiang Production and Construction Corps, which has orchestrated the
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entire Uyghur genocide. Harvard actually has a special program where they used to invite them
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over here. They would bring them, they'd let them tour the Capitol and have them meet with members of
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Congress and instruct them how to be better and more efficient politicians. I'm not kidding.
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I don't know about the audience, but I'm all set to say that I think Natalie is ready to go into
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a cabinet position, or at least an undersecretary somewhere. We do have a, but while we got you,
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Natalie, we're going to use you. Let's show, we got the clip. Let's show the clip from over the weekend.
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We journalists are a lot of things. We are competitive and pushy. We are impatient. And
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sometimes we think we know everything. But we're also human. We miss our families and significant
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life moments in service to this job. We care deeply about accuracy and take seriously the heavy
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responsibility of being stewards of the public's trust. What we are not is the opposition. What we
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are not is the enemy of the people. And what we are not is the enemy of the state.
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Natalie, I thought there was no comedian this year at the White House Correspondents' Dinner,
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Maybe I'm pro-fact checkers, because fact check, false. That's, of course, Eugene Daniels,
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the, I guess, newfound MSNBC contributor who, what, accuses us of being biased despite working
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for a network where a former Democrat press secretary now works. They recently did a panel
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together. I'll have to clip it for you. They said some truly wild stuff. I described that dinner as
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like a doomsday prepper bunker, because that's essentially what it felt like. There was a lot of
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internal drama amidst the WHCA about whether or not they should actually have had the dinner given
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the circumstances that we live under. But I will say my takeaway, I went to some of the events this
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weekend, is that new media, I mean, we've always been strong, but we've never been stronger. And
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it's quite interesting to watch the legacy media people interact with the new media. I would say much
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like myself. They treat us like zoo animals. They don't know what to do with us. Maybe it's rooted in envy
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because their networks are getting spun off and sold and they have no viewership. But I had some
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very interesting interactions this week. But I just think that this dinner, I know I hosted the
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Friday show and I made the point to our audience that this is really a victory for them. I mean,
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in the same way that President Trump has commandeered the Kennedy Center, that weekend is supposed to be
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something where all of my wonderful colleagues standing around me right now who are, believe me,
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apoplectic over all the illegal aliens, criminal illegal aliens that have been deported. You can see the
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signs behind me. I don't know if they know what to do with those. But that's a weekend that those
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people are supposed to celebrate and relish in the idea that there are these journalists, right,
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these pristine, untouchable pseudo-intellectuals. You took that from them. Our audience took that
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from them, not just by helping President Trump get elected, but by helping shows like this, people like
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you, people like me, have the platforms that we do to totally destroy and debunk their narratives.
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And I just want to thank our audience and applaud our audience for having done that,
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because these people are the most smug, like I said, pseudo-intellectuals you will ever meet who
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think they're better than you. They have nothing but contempt for the American people. They would
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scoff if we were covering the truck driver issue. They would try to find a way to bring up, who knows,
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multiculturalism. But it was an important marker. This is, if you read the reports of it,
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people were hugging longer than they could. They were wearing flats instead of heels. And I think that
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that's quite symbolic on the, you want to talk about psychological warfare coming from the CCP?
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Our audience can dish as good as they can take. And they've dished a lot against this
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legacy media elite. And it's quite glorious to see them not be able to have their parties at not
00:22:07.940
just taxpayer expense, ideologically, but it's, it was great to see. And I have some funny stories.
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Maybe we'll have to do an after hours edition, but me and the legacy media, it's an interesting thing.
00:22:20.720
Maybe we'll do that. A lot of them are texting me. I'm like, no,
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Now, I want to go back to the phrase, though, that seems to upset them and they got to have to give a
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round of applause to. This is a term we came up in the early days of the first Trump administration,
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when it was so obvious that everything was hand-to-hand combat.
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And I really want to applaud Caroline Levitt, Susie Wiles, Taylor Bowditch, Stephen Chung,
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the entire, you know, media team over there and the chief of staff for really having the strength
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of purpose to kind of move these people aside and let some young fire breathers in from actually
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places that have audiences and have engaged activists. The enemy of the people. You could
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tell that we landed that one and that stings. They have to go and try to reinforce the fact
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that we're not the enemy of the people. Now, Eugene doesn't actually make the most, you know,
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he's not the most powerful speaker, but in your hanging out with this group this weekend,
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is that something that stings a lot that they're now referred to as the enemy of the people?
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Yeah. And I think the fact that they're using that terminology, it means that it's stuck,
00:23:40.520
right? We won. Like the fact that he says opposition, that's something that we talk about
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all the time. Usually they would, they would reject that framing. Um, it's an, it's an interesting
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phenomenon because though you would think that like they would detest my presence being there and hate
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me, it's, it's more of like a curiosity while also thinking like you're a mental patient, like you
00:24:01.980
belong in an insane asylum. And I think the biggest interesting just thing to me, you see it sort of
00:24:08.320
in their coverage, I think of the new media, but how they even speak to me. It's like, as if they've
00:24:13.420
never talked to someone with my beliefs before, which for a white house reporter, for someone who
00:24:18.640
covers politics, that's sort of outlandish. And I'm not saying that they don't hit the campaign trail
00:24:23.180
and interview MAGA supporters, but I think that they have truly a contempt for them. They think that
00:24:28.940
they're better. They think because, you know, we didn't go to Harvard and get brainwashed by the
00:24:32.460
Chinese communist party, um, that somehow their voices matter more. And I just think that it's wild
00:24:38.220
that the new media beat is the advent of the new media beat. It's this whole thing now, right? We've been
00:24:44.620
around for a very long time. Like I meet people who don't know what war room is and it's preposterous,
00:24:50.760
right? Covering, I mean, that's malpractice in terms of being a journalist. So it's, it's an, it's a very
00:24:55.920
interesting kind of juxtaposition between two different worlds. I break it back to China. It's
00:25:02.540
like a Thucydides trap, right? You have the two competing legacy media, new media, but, um, it's,
00:25:08.300
it's weird. I do it for the audience, but please don't make me do this forever. Yeah.
00:25:13.220
One reason I still don't think they've realized that we're there permanently,
00:25:16.820
not just in this administration, but in Trump 28. And then thereafter that this new media is not
00:25:23.600
going away. We only get stronger and bigger, bigger audiences and more relevant, more scoops
00:25:27.820
every day. They're kind of on the sidelines. I don't think it's hit on them. They think you're
00:25:33.040
a curiosity. They also think you're a curiosity that's just passing through. They have not embraced
00:25:38.360
the fact that you and the people that follow you are there forever. Yes. Natalie, social media.
00:25:47.720
How do people, how do people follow you, man? Natalie G. Winters on all platforms. We'll have to find
00:25:53.480
a way to do a special episode where I tell my stories from this weekend. I met Kennedy. How's
00:25:59.040
that for a teaser? I hope you gave her, I hope you gave her the old what for, for that daily
00:26:06.680
mail thing. Anyway, we'll talk about that later. Natalie, you're the best. Keep working, girl.
00:26:12.660
Okay. We're gonna take a short commercial break. A huge event today in Spain and Portugal. Still
00:26:22.240
not explained. We had Dave Walsh on this morning. We've asked Dave Walsh to come back. Birch
00:26:27.820
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Good evening. Authorities across Spain and Portugal are tonight scrambling to restore power to large
00:31:54.140
areas of their countries after one of the biggest power outages in recent history. A cyber attack has
00:32:00.600
been ruled out as the cause, with engineers instead blaming what has been called a rare atmospheric
00:32:06.100
phenomenon that could take days to fully resolve. Ashna Haranag sent this report from Madrid.
00:32:15.060
Carnage in Spain's capital. No traffic lights at this roundabout makes for an almost lawless scene
00:32:21.420
as cars and pedestrians navigate the disorder. It's a picture replicated across the country and in
00:32:27.980
Portugal too. Both nations entirely cut off from power. As the train network grounded to a halt,
00:32:36.400
some stranded passengers in Valencia walked the rest of their journeys. Railway lines deserted and
00:32:42.540
phone lines dead. By lunchtime, office workers poured onto the streets, dazed and disconnected.
00:32:49.760
We were working very well. Suddenly the computer went down. We thought it was a normal blackout as it
00:32:57.180
happens sometimes, but then we heard it was a cyber attack. This was through information through
00:33:01.900
the poor connection we had to the internet. After that, we stopped having any comms, no access to the
00:33:07.100
internet, nothing. And then came the official announcements. Travel is only advised if necessary.
00:33:13.700
State security forces have increased their presence and vigilance on the streets and roads. But for
00:33:21.640
the moment, no civil protection has been observed. As for railway traffic, it has stopped, as you know,
00:33:28.100
for the safety of passengers. Passengers wanting to travel in and out of the countries are desperate
00:33:33.760
for movement. That's simply not happening. Flights in and out are severely delayed or cancelled.
00:33:40.500
Madrid and Barcelona airports are running off contingency generators. There are queues
00:33:45.240
everywhere you look. The taxis, staff desks and check-in. People are desperate for information.
00:33:52.440
The dropout blamed on Spain's electricity grid. Portuguese grid officials say due to extreme
00:33:59.100
temperature variations in the interior of Spain, there were anomalous oscillations in the very high
00:34:05.120
voltage lines. A phenomenon known as induced atmospheric vibration. It's estimated that full
00:34:12.580
normalization of the network could take up to a week. Two countries thrown into darkness and the cause
00:34:20.480
Okay, folks, this is seven million people in a very advanced industrial country. There's something not
00:34:31.980
right here. And I want everybody to take notes. That's why we covered it this morning as soon as I first
00:34:35.440
heard about it and got some heads up from people that this was going to be big. Dave Walsh joins us. Dave,
00:34:41.860
great job this morning. What is the mumbo jumbo, Dave, that they gave us at the end? My eyes are
00:34:48.380
crossed. What is this new term, induced what? And what are the saints caused by?
00:34:53.960
This is a phrase we have not heard before. Today's word salad from the Spanish government. Induced
00:34:59.340
atmospheric vibration caused by overheating of transmission lines due to heat from the sun,
00:35:05.460
from the atmosphere. Nothing unusual about temperatures in Spain today, actually. This is
00:35:12.480
a remarkable explanation that has never been proffered before. I have never heard of it. We
00:35:18.400
have never heard of it. But I'm telling you, it smacks of when you have a system that is now 50%
00:35:25.980
dependent, as theirs is, on variable part-time electricity sources, solar, wind, and battery
00:35:31.780
storage, mainly solar, you are vastly exposed to needing, one, the importation of huge quantities
00:35:37.400
of electricity for when you don't have those resources, which generally is like 75% of the
00:35:42.600
time. Those resources aren't prevalent in enough abundance to create power. So they do have a
00:35:48.500
massive interlink with France for nuclear power. And of course, a robust activity with Morocco
00:35:53.840
and Libya on natural gas imports to fuel their remaining gas-fired plants, which they're closing
00:35:59.720
over time. As they're also closing their nuclear plants, and they have a plan to close their last
00:36:04.480
two coal plants in the next several years, an attempt to be 80% dependent on variable electricity
00:36:10.820
generation resources, which means they'll be heavily dependent on France, Libya, and Morocco
00:36:15.200
going forward. Possibly, if they build an LNG terminal, be dependent on U.S. LNG coming in there
00:36:20.460
also. This is the risk of having an energy system for electricity that is based on a firm foundation
00:36:28.940
of variable nature-based resources, not controllable by human command, or what we call dispatchable.
00:36:36.180
And we are headed in the same direction here, in our own system.
00:36:39.780
I want to go to that. Is this part of the decarbonization effort? Are they farther along than Germany, sir?
00:36:50.060
They're in about the same place. They're about equal to Germany in the percentage of the capacity
00:36:57.800
of power generation devices installed that are renewable. Solar plus wind in Spain is now about
00:37:04.540
66% of their installed capacity and about 50% of their electricity supply. So to offset, when that's
00:37:12.020
not present, they now have massive importation of French nuclear and from their gas plants, gas coming
00:37:17.960
from Libya and Morocco to offset all the time of day, the very lengthy time of day, that this kind of
00:37:23.700
resource supplies nothing. So you've got a very unstable grid.
00:37:28.620
Yeah. I want to talk about the United States, but I want to break it down by states. I want to talk
00:37:44.620
Florida, South Carolina, and Texas. Those are about as three MAGA states as you can get.
00:37:51.240
Red-blooded Americans live there. Are we heading down a path in those three states to replicate
00:38:04.360
I'm sad to report in Texas, we're there already on an installed capacity basis. Texas is now about
00:38:10.680
55% solar, wind, and battery storage. ERCOT is the grid there. The ERCOT plan for the next five years,
00:38:18.800
assembled by all their power companies, is that the next five years will be 90% of the
00:38:24.080
new capacity additions the next five years will be solar and battery storage. Two-hour-a-day
00:38:30.320
storage, six-hour-a-day solar. So Texas will be in exactly the same place as Spain within five years.
00:38:37.440
It's almost there now. And you know, every summer, we're talking because of that on this show about
00:38:42.880
the electricity shortages imminent in the hottest days of the summer when they're just about out of
00:38:48.160
power to meet normal air conditioning demand when it's 98, 99, which happens frequently
00:38:53.680
in large parts of Texas. Normal, normal days. Running out of electricity because of you don't
00:38:59.200
have enough wind blowing late in the afternoon. And then solar power diminishes badly between five
00:39:04.000
and seven. It reduces by like 80%. But the temperatures hang in there to about 92% of peak
00:39:09.920
till about nine at night. So you get this massive risk window in Texas between five and eight o'clock
00:39:16.080
when the temperatures remain very high. But the solar, the solar concentration for power generation
00:39:21.520
gets very, very low after about 5 p.m. Here is a headed there where the Florida plan for the next 10
00:39:28.080
years is to install 30 go from 30,000 megawatts of solar grow by about 30,000 more megawatts,
00:39:36.480
and only add about 2000 megawatts of gas fired power here. So our whole plan in this state for the next
00:39:42.000
10 years is about 95% solar power, new capacity additions, and about 5% man controlled, dispatchable,
00:39:50.640
baseload, gas fired. It's horrible. We're headed the same place in cost, in cost of space, and federal
00:39:57.680
liability. Hang on, hang on. That's not horrible. That's insanity. There has to be something I don't
00:40:03.760
understand is because the new capital equipment is because it's this new thing. Why given, and particularly
00:40:10.160
now that Trump's in, and Texas is Texas, how could this possibly be? You just told me that these two
00:40:17.120
are on the path to be, and quickly to be Spain and Portugal. We know that model doesn't work.
00:40:24.000
We know it's absurd to even, we mock the Europeans for doing this. We mock the Europeans for decarbonizing
00:40:31.280
on a cult. And here's what's so upsetting about it. The people that brought on the cult of
00:40:36.640
decarbonization have totally walked away from it because it could, it can limit their ability
00:40:42.880
to build data centers and have power centers that can, that can, it can power artificial
00:40:49.200
intelligence. As soon as they see something they want more, they run to that. You don't hear any of
00:40:54.160
this nonsense, any of this crap from these people anymore because they don't want to limit the power
00:40:59.520
that they know that, that artificial intelligence has. How can the state of Texas with Abbott and how
00:41:05.120
can Florida with DeSantis and these legislatures and no offense, I don't know, two thirds of the
00:41:12.240
population is MAGA. How could this possibly going down this path, which is so obviously the road to
00:41:18.880
perdition, sir? DeSantis won't address it. He has never addressed it. He has never spoken publicly about
00:41:25.440
it, that his public service commission appointed by him has approved every single solar new capacity
00:41:32.720
plan of Duke Energy and especially next era, TECO submitted to the PSC here for the last five
00:41:38.240
years. Under all those plans, those companies are installing nothing but solar power and battery
00:41:44.000
storage. It's not, it's not a diverse energy model at all. It's one thing. It's solar and battery storage
00:41:50.080
for the next 10 years here. On top of the fact that these two companies with TECO have spent about 13
00:41:54.960
billion in the last four years on the same stuff that operates here 22% of the time. The known
00:42:01.600
capacity factor in solar here is 22% operational, 78% not. Utilities benefit from this in the following
00:42:09.440
way. The capital return on investment, they're guaranteed by the public service commission is
00:42:14.320
10.8%. The cost of this stuff has been four times more than building conventional combined cycle power
00:42:20.320
plants, gas power plants. So they win, win, win, because the capex churn, the capex investment
00:42:25.920
is so much higher on which they get their guaranteed rate of return. This is a big win for them. They
00:42:31.440
hide behind the notion of net zero decarb to defend, and they now hide behind under the prior
00:42:36.160
administration, hide behind the EPA in defending adding nothing but this stuff that because it's so
00:42:42.320
costly and so intermittent drives up electricity costs through the roof. It's gone up, power costs have
00:42:47.680
gone up. But hang on, but hang on, hang on. MAGA ain't shy about saying, hey, this is not right.
00:42:54.880
Why do I not hear rate payers? Or maybe we do and our ear's just not out. We'll give them a platform.
00:42:59.760
Why are the rate payers in Texas and in Florida, which are the two rail heads of the MAGA movement,
00:43:05.760
why are they not sitting there going, this is outrageous? We're, we're, we're being, we're being
00:43:10.000
ripped off on something. By the way, if you were doing this from something that had a longer good to
00:43:14.560
it, you could see it. This doesn't, it was clearly a hoax, phony science. And the reason I know that
00:43:19.360
is all the people that promoted it ditched it immediately when it came between them and the
00:43:24.240
ultimate power of artificial intelligence. You don't hear any of this net zero crap anymore from
00:43:29.600
the, uh, from the oligarchs. Why are the rate payers not in rebellion down in Florida and in Texas,
00:43:34.880
sir? Um, government officials here seem to think people want this year. They never cross-link the high
00:43:41.600
cost of it with, with doing this. The reality of it is never discussed in cost base by the utilities
00:43:48.240
nor government officials here. Utilities are massive pack donors to government officials here to get
00:43:54.720
elected. Utilities are the second largest donor group in the state behind insurance companies.
00:43:59.760
They control the state house, the state Senate and the governor's thinking on anything about energy
00:44:06.080
strategy. Most notoriously, Nextera. Nextera's articulated CapEx stock program for equity growth
00:44:13.600
of their firm is to be the world's largest owner of wind, solar and battery farms in the world.
00:44:19.600
That is their articulated stock hype message on Wall Street. It has served them well. So now they want
00:44:25.600
to backflip that into Florida and do the same thing here. This place is an embarrassment to them
00:44:30.480
because they just built five, six years ago, five major, huge combined cycle plants. We knew as much
00:44:36.400
about CO2 five years ago when they did that. Now they're beginning to throttle those back, run them
00:44:41.280
part-time, intermittent, up and down, up and down, making them much more inefficient to back up solar
00:44:46.480
that only operates here about 22% of the time. Now this is, it's a big money game for the utilities.
00:44:52.240
They're a massive donor. The general population, because they promote so much, uh, false information
00:44:58.400
on this stuff being kind of free, which is entirely false information by the fact that this is somehow
00:45:04.160
cheap energy. It's way not. It's four times more costly because it's so intermittent and part-time.
00:45:10.400
Texas, the same thing's been underway. There has to be a change in, and the legislature there is
00:45:15.920
considering now a requirement that half of new capacity in Texas has to be baseload, continuous
00:45:21.520
duty, human controlled. That's now under consideration in Texas. That's great news. That would help solve
00:45:27.280
this in Texas. Over here, nothing of the sorts underway. DeSantis has been duplicitous and quiet
00:45:33.520
about the whole damn thing, and has not been forthright with the people on the real cost of
00:45:37.440
this in way reduced reliability, reserve margins going way, way down, and costs going way, way up,
00:45:43.440
which they have. They have. Duke's cost here of 42% the last eight years, and about 32% in the last four
00:45:50.240
years, largely because of this, because of the nine, the eight or so billion that they have planned to put
00:45:56.720
into this, plus the three billion they put into this already, that generates almost no power.
00:46:01.280
It's very sad. It makes a lot of money. What about the great, what about the, damn right,
00:46:06.800
makes a lot of money for it because they're putting in new capex and getting, and getting,
00:46:10.640
and getting what the rate payers to pay for it with a, what guaranteed 10%. What about South,
00:46:15.520
the great state of South Carolina, another mega state, sir? South Carolina has recently extended the
00:46:21.760
life of two coal plants. The Santee Cooper generating company that's owned by the state,
00:46:26.480
very unusual model in the South. They used to have a state-owned electricity utility generation
00:46:30.640
company, has extended the life of White Plant Wina and its other large coal plant there for
00:46:36.480
five to seven years because of the power shortage. So that's good news. Now, by the way, Duke Energy
00:46:41.920
named a new president and CEO, Harry Sedaris. Great guy, great engineer, understands all this.
00:46:47.520
Within two weeks of being announced, he's announced an alliance with GE Vernova to buy
00:46:52.960
seven new advanced gas turbines. Now, we're hoping a couple of them may come here to Florida,
00:46:58.000
South North Carolina get two or three or four of those, Cincinnati get one or two of them in the
00:47:02.160
whole Duke world, and build some combined cycle continuous duty baseload power, hopefully.
00:47:08.000
At the same time, back in Florida, the chairman of Florida Power and Light of NextEra has announced
00:47:12.880
an alliance with GE Vernova to buy gas turbines for their hyperscaler clients around the country.
00:47:20.080
So here's FP&L and NextEra announcing for Florida, net zero decarb only, solar only,
00:47:25.280
but for their hyperscaler AI clients nationally, they're buying a bunch of gas turbines to feed them
00:47:31.680
24-hour-a-day cost-effective power. You talk about duplicitous kind of rhetoric from one company.
00:47:38.560
Solarize Florida, based on a net zero decarb philosophy, ruin power capacity here and reliability,
00:47:46.000
drive costs through the roof, but give hyperscalers exactly what they need, 24-hour-a-day combined
00:47:50.960
cycle gas-fired power around the country, supplied by NextEra. Just announced by that,
00:47:56.080
an alliance with GE for that purpose. Not here for ratepayers, but for their hyperscaler clients.
00:48:01.600
It's, you know, we have some awkward things going on here in this space.
00:48:08.240
Last thing, only 10% of Spain and Portugal are back online. They say it could take four
00:48:14.720
or five days. This could be very dangerous. I mean, you've got a country with seven million
00:48:19.120
people in large urban areas that have no power whatsoever, and you can tell these urban areas
00:48:26.320
Well, before we connected in this forum, Texas had that happen in the winter back three years ago.
00:48:32.800
Grid loss for about close to a week in the snowmageddon of three years ago in January.
00:48:38.880
In the last three summers that we've been chatting back and forth about Texas crisis in July and August,
00:48:43.680
that comes up about every two weeks, they've been that close to losing the entire grid in Texas.
00:48:49.280
When your demand exceeds supply, you can easily lose the grid. You've got too much demand being
00:48:55.440
placed on resources, causes units to shut down, causes a reconstruction of the grid,
00:49:01.120
logic and programming to get it back up and running, can take a week to 10 days. That's a disaster.
00:49:06.960
Texas has been right on the verge of that about five times in the last two summers. Same set of issues
00:49:13.200
as here. And we haven't called it induced atmospheric vibration. It's shortage of electricity to meet demand.
00:49:20.160
So they've skated by in Texas the last two years with a lot of demand curtailment and voluntary
00:49:25.840
requests of users to scale back washers, dryers, air conditioning in the late afternoon. And that's
00:49:32.160
worked. Fortunately, that's worked. But they've been that close also to losing the grid for up to a week
00:49:37.520
or more in Texas the last two years. Because this is what happens when you lose the grid. It takes a while to
00:49:43.120
reconstruct the system. It's not physical. There's a lot of programming and interconnections to make it
00:49:48.800
re-sync and get back up and running. You don't want to lose the grid. Spain has done that. It's a complete
00:49:54.800
disaster. Dave, I know you're following this one for us. We'll talk to you tomorrow morning. Where's your
00:50:02.880
social media in the interim, sir? I appreciate the opportunity to speak about it, Steve. It's on
00:50:08.000
the XTruthSocial and getter, DaveWalshEnergy.com. Thank you.
00:50:13.440
No, when you talk about it, my head blows up. It can't. I mean, it could happen anywhere else in
00:50:18.960
the country. It could not possibly happen in Texas and Florida. But it's happening in Texas and Florida.
00:50:25.440
It just shows you. Unless you keep them honest every day of the week, you just never know, right? You
00:50:29.600
just got to do it. You got to be on top of it nonstop. The situation in Texas is out of control,
00:50:35.040
all that Texas house. Anyway, Dave Walsh, you're a great man. Thanks for doing this.
00:50:41.840
We're going to lose some of our contributors here in the next couple of weeks that are going to go
00:50:45.200
to jobs in other places, right, to high office. We'll make some announcements. I hope one day,
00:50:53.360
Dave Walsh is one of them. He's a guy that the administration needs big time.
00:50:58.000
And we need you. What we're going to need is you to man the ramparts. Scott Bessent is out today.
00:51:04.400
And what does Scott Bessent say? Scott Bessent, I don't know if I have this. Yes. Scott Bessent
00:51:10.240
just tweeted out. This is called truth, folks. We had another successful big six meeting today,
00:51:16.720
and we hope to have a tax bill done by the 4th of July. The House is moving quickly.
00:51:25.760
Thune said today will be the summer. Scott Bessent, finally, this is why he's a safe pair of hands
00:51:30.560
as Secretary of the Treasury. With all the happy talk of Polly Pockets, he said this would never
00:51:35.600
happen. Scott comes out today and says, we hope by July. That means those guys working through
00:51:42.880
the Memorial Day weekend and grinding through to hopefully get it by the 6th of July or the 4th of
00:51:48.960
July or somewhere around that. It's the first time anybody's put a real time frame here.
00:51:53.760
Even with all the hard work they're going to do, I think it's going to come later.
00:51:57.760
So watch, and this is why people are talking about Stefanik for Speak of the House.
00:52:04.080
The House guys understand their whole summer is going to be shot. Not that that's a priority for me,
00:52:09.120
but there ain't going to be any August recess. We're going to have to grind this one, folks,
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