Bannon's War Room - WarRoom Battleground EP 774： Catholics Reject The Digital Deity

00:00:00.000 This is the primal scream of a dying regime.

00:00:07.720 Pray for our enemies, because we're going medieval on these people.

00:00:12.960 I got a free shot at all these networks lying about the people.

00:00:17.220 The people have had a belly full of it.

00:00:19.160 I know you don't like hearing that.

00:00:20.600 I know you try to do everything in the world to stop that,

00:00:22.320 but you're not going to stop it.

00:00:23.260 It's going to happen.

00:00:24.520 And where do people like that go to share the big lie?

00:00:27.920 Mega Media.

00:00:28.820 I wish in my soul, I wish that any of these people had a conscience.

00:00:34.700 Ask yourself, what is my task and what is my purpose?

00:00:38.460 If that answer is to save my country, this country will be saved.

00:00:44.840 War Room. Here's your host, Stephen K. Bannon.

00:00:53.120 Okay, welcome.

00:00:54.100 It's Thursday, 21 May, Year of the Lord, 2025.

00:01:00.480 Thank you for sticking around for the 6 p.m. hour.

00:01:03.960 I think you see today the bouncing around in the capital markets more than ever.

00:01:07.700 What is fiat currency?

00:01:09.480 Is that the dollar empire?

00:01:11.400 Maybe.

00:01:12.940 Right?

00:01:13.480 What's backing it?

00:01:14.500 Who knows?

00:01:15.480 The greatest export we have.

00:01:17.080 Find out all about this.

00:01:18.080 Go to birchgold.com.

00:01:19.740 End of the dollar empire.

00:01:20.860 The seventh free installment is called the Rio Reset on the Road to Rio.

00:01:26.280 They're talking now about the Senate is going to pass the big, beautiful bill by July 4th.

00:01:33.560 That means it'll go to conference sometime in August before we hit the debt ceiling.

00:01:38.040 Remember, they're asking for a $4 trillion lift in this, that they'll have a joint bill and be able to pass this.

00:01:44.520 So, we can kind of get on with it.

00:01:48.440 The greatest export we have is the dollar.

00:01:52.560 It's under question.

00:01:53.500 The July 6th, right?

00:01:54.400 As the Senate supposedly theoretically passes, they're going to be in Rio talking about how they get off the U.S. dollar.

00:02:00.020 Find all about it.

00:02:02.320 birchgold.com slash Bannon.

00:02:04.240 The Rio Reset on the Road to Rio.

00:02:07.360 Do it today.

00:02:08.200 Slash Bannon.

00:02:09.540 Tej Gill joins me.

00:02:10.640 Tej, you were a very successful patriot warrior for your country for many decades, and now you've shifted in to be, I think, the finest coffee roaster, not just in the United States, but the world.

00:02:26.960 You roast the champagne of coffee.

00:02:29.260 Tell me about it.

00:02:31.620 Yeah, Steve, we do roast the champagne of coffee.

00:02:33.860 It's Warpath coffee.

00:02:36.760 We roast it on a perforated drum.

00:02:38.760 That way, we don't burn it, and if you look at our website, we have, I think we have just about 10,000 five-star reviews.

00:02:46.640 We might have hit 10,000 this week, but it's only 13% of our customers leave reviews, and they're almost all five stars.

00:02:54.700 People love this coffee.

00:02:56.380 So, by not burning the coffee when we roast, not burning the beans when we roast it, you can drink it straight black.

00:03:01.660 You don't need milk.

00:03:02.460 You don't need sugar. 0.99

00:03:03.140 You don't need to add any of that crap into your coffee. 0.96

00:03:05.200 You can drink it healthy.

00:03:06.000 The website is warpath.coffee, and use promo code WARROOM, and you can get the best coffee for 20% off.

00:03:18.020 It's warpath.coffee, promo code WARROOM, and you'll get the best coffee for 20% off, and that's for the War Room Posse.

00:03:25.140 And we run that discount code year-round for the War Room Posse.

00:03:31.140 We have a Dark Crows, the Mariners blend. 1.00

00:03:35.040 That's your favorite, Steve.

00:03:36.320 We made that actually for you.

00:03:38.040 And then we have the Breakfast blend.

00:03:39.620 My wife and I created that one. 0.79

00:03:41.160 And then we have the Summer blend.

00:03:44.060 And the Summer blend has a little bit of Jamaica Blue Mountain beans in the base of it, and it's a blend of some other coffees.

00:03:49.540 And that one's really smooth.

00:03:51.400 And then, of course, we have the flavored coffees.

00:03:53.080 We have dark chocolate.

00:03:54.620 And because of such high demand, we're running our holiday and Christmas coffee year-round because we usually run it for a couple months after Christmas.

00:04:01.160 But people are emailing and calling all the time like, hey, we want the holiday coffee.

00:04:05.720 So it's now a staple.

00:04:07.620 We run it year-round.

00:04:08.360 We got vanilla, hazelnut.

00:04:10.060 We got the espresso.

00:04:11.180 It's an Italian frogman espresso.

00:04:13.420 And that one is amazing.

00:04:15.600 I did that one.

00:04:16.760 It's a light roast espresso, so it doesn't have the bitterness that espresso usually has.

00:04:23.580 And I drink it straight black espresso.

00:04:26.220 It's really good.

00:04:27.280 And then, of course, we have the K-Cups.

00:04:28.500 We have the Breakfast blend and Mariners blend K-Cups.

00:04:30.480 And the Mariners blend K-Cup is our top seller.

00:04:34.120 We're restocking those tomorrow.

00:04:35.540 We just made about, I think, 5,000 42-count boxes of those because they sell so fast.

00:04:42.000 So this weekend, everything will be in stock.

00:04:44.920 But right now, everything but the Mariners blend K-Cups are in stock.

00:04:49.080 And we have mugs.

00:04:50.080 We have everything.

00:04:50.780 It's incredible.

00:04:51.820 They're blown up.

00:04:52.700 Where do people go?

00:04:53.820 It's the champagne of coffee.

00:04:55.420 You drink this.

00:04:56.460 It's clean.

00:04:57.480 You talk about clean.

00:04:58.360 Your diet's clean.

00:04:59.440 Your food's clean.

00:05:00.620 This is clean.

00:05:01.400 You don't need cream.

00:05:02.360 You don't need milk.

00:05:03.200 You don't need sugar.

00:05:03.900 You don't need anything to cut the acidity of coffee because it ain't burnt like certain companies that have green logos.

00:05:17.760 Where do they go?

00:05:18.880 You got a Memorial Day sale because I know you're a big believer in the commemoration of Memorial Day like we hear at the War Room.

00:05:25.720 Where do people go?

00:05:26.740 What's the sale?

00:05:27.320 The sale is 20% off.

00:05:31.040 The promo code is War Room.

00:05:34.680 Promo code War Room.

00:05:35.640 The website is warpath.coffee.

00:05:37.600 And then your discount code is going to be War Room.

00:05:39.700 And that's for the War Room Posse.

00:05:41.380 And it's 20% off.

00:05:43.620 It's the best coffee.

00:05:44.940 And like you said, Steve, it's clean.

00:05:47.380 I'll tell you a real quick story.

00:05:48.880 I've had a guy call in and he said that he's allergic to pretty much all coffees out there.

00:05:56.060 So he has to buy the organic coffees.

00:05:58.260 And our non-organic coffee, he can drink without getting an allergic reaction.

00:06:03.420 So that just shows how good our coffee is.

00:06:05.640 That's a true story.

00:06:06.900 He was a chiropractor.

00:06:09.200 He called in and I answered the phone and I was talking to him.

00:06:14.720 Amazing stuff.

00:06:15.660 You've done good, sir.

00:06:18.340 You're doing well by doing good.

00:06:20.660 Thank you, brother.

00:06:21.600 One more time.

00:06:22.240 Where do people go?

00:06:22.880 Because it's 20% off.

00:06:23.960 I want everybody to get and have some great coffee over the weekend.

00:06:29.720 Warpath.coffee is the website.

00:06:32.540 And use promo code War Room. 0.82

00:06:35.420 Warpath.coffee.

00:06:37.260 Promo code War Room.

00:06:38.960 And that's how you do it.

00:06:40.380 That's how you get D-Best Coffee.

00:06:42.280 And just read the reviews.

00:06:43.540 Go to the website and read the reviews.

00:06:45.000 You're going to love it.

00:06:46.920 Warpath.coffee.

00:06:47.840 Promo code War Room.

00:06:48.560 That's the 10,000 five-star reviews of your fellow compadres.

00:06:52.540 And make sure you leave a review.

00:06:54.200 Even if it's not five-star, leave one.

00:06:56.320 Exactly.

00:06:56.520 Okay, Tegel.

00:06:57.020 Thank you.

00:06:57.960 We'll let you go back.

00:06:58.520 Thank you, sir.

00:06:59.020 Love you, brother.

00:06:59.840 Thank you.

00:07:00.200 Thank you, sir.

00:07:01.900 Okay.

00:07:02.240 Yesterday, we had a major league guest into the War Room.

00:07:07.080 Max Tegmark.

00:07:09.220 The Future of Life Institute.

00:07:12.500 He is a guy who's a mathematician.

00:07:14.560 Very involved in artificial intelligence.

00:07:16.340 One of the big brains in that.

00:07:17.660 And he's saying, yo, we've got to really think this thing through before the horse gets out of the barn or we can have real problems.

00:07:27.160 Joe Allen joins me.

00:07:28.360 You guys went to Catholic University yesterday after our discussion here in the War Room.

00:07:34.160 We've got a clip.

00:07:35.060 Let's play that and then we'll get into the discussion.

00:07:36.820 I've also got Liz Yor and Ben Harnwell from Rome because Cardinal Priebus took the name Leo XIV for a specific reason that he laid out after he took it.

00:07:49.940 We'll discuss that with Ben and Liz about artificial intelligence.

00:07:53.880 Let's play Catholic University, the panel yesterday.

00:07:56.020 That I do, I'm in radical agreement with my co-panelists as to their assessment as to where we are and our excitement and our apprehension when it comes to the emergence of AI in our lives.

00:08:11.720 When he says science is blind, what he means by that is science doesn't tell you.

00:08:17.080 I'm the first to admit there's not a single equation we've ever discovered that tells you what's good and what's evil.

00:08:25.760 Science can never answer these questions.

00:08:27.860 And if scientists pretend that they can somehow derive from principles of science, what is morally good and what is bad, they're just BSing you.

00:08:35.860 They sometimes couch their language in religious terms.

00:08:40.900 The essay from Dario Amadei you quoted is even titled Machines of Loving Grace.

00:08:46.160 I view it as kind of obnoxious to just try to appropriate religious language for his personal money-making agenda.

00:08:54.700 The truth is we have to have a moral compass.

00:08:58.540 We have to have moral leadership.

00:08:59.920 And it's not going to come from any calculations from scientists.

00:09:03.300 It's almost more of a stakeholder discussion than it is of the principles.

00:09:07.960 Yeah.

00:09:08.480 I think that – I mean there's some – there's definitely some non-obvious thinking that should go into the equation.

00:09:14.100 But when it comes to – you know, like issues of religious freedom and pluralism ought to be a central pillar in the decision-making process.

00:09:23.120 We have to think about things like what do parental controls mean in different countries around the world that have – are we going to fragment society by the – some of these lessons we didn't learn from the beginning of social media.

00:09:39.800 I think it's also important that all of us recognize that when we've had disruptive technologies like this in the past, it's worth a pause for a second.

00:09:51.300 They were almost always followed by vast global conflict.

00:09:57.060 Wow.

00:09:59.920 What does he mean?

00:10:01.040 Walk me through that.

00:10:02.000 So that was Johnny Moore at Liberty University.

00:10:05.540 He also works with the White House.

00:10:06.860 The evangelical leader, right?

00:10:08.960 Yes.

00:10:09.860 Why is he so important?

00:10:11.540 And what is an evangelical sticking his pie hole into this conversation?

00:10:16.980 Well, you know, the entire panel was non-Catholic other than the moderator. 0.74

00:10:22.600 The moderator was Will Jones at the Future of Life Institute, a confirmed – recently confirmed Catholic. 0.68

00:10:28.620 So congratulations, Will.

00:10:30.700 The other three, though, you had Johnny Moore, evangelical leader.

00:10:35.980 You had Max Tegmark, who is a physicist and very much has his head wrapped around the material world.

00:10:43.540 But in my discussions with him, he's very open to the mystery of the universe.

00:10:47.420 He doesn't think scientists have it all figured out.

00:10:50.520 And then you had, if I'm pronouncing his name correctly, Sahil Khan of Microsoft, a conservative Muslim.

00:10:58.260 And in the discussion, I mean, the real core of the discussion was simply as we are rocketing forward with the development of artificial intelligence

00:11:06.740 and especially the deployment of artificial intelligence, which has been completely reckless so far.

00:11:13.040 How do religious communities respond to this?

00:11:16.640 You know, I think Will Jones has said this many times, and I've said it many times, you've said it many times.

00:11:22.620 But there's a sense that religious communities are going to be best equipped to deal with the ramifications of having machines that at the very least appear to think, 0.63

00:11:34.300 and perhaps if it keeps moving forward in the direction that Silicon Valley wants it to go, that they actually do think and think better than human beings.

00:11:42.600 So what you heard Max Tegmark there saying is that science can't solve this problem.

00:11:48.820 Even if someone is an atheist, they have to have some kind of recourse to a foundational reality to say this is good or this is evil.

00:11:58.740 Religion provides that.

00:12:00.340 Religion tells you these things are good to serve your fellow man and to worship God is good,

00:12:06.220 and to try to replace God with a machine implicitly would be evil.

00:12:11.700 Okay, and we're doing this, and Johnny Moore and people, because we need to wake up the population that this is a thing,

00:12:17.920 and we have to combat it because the demonic people that are driving this are agnostic at best and probably atheistic.

00:12:26.820 They see themselves as gods.

00:12:28.620 That's what we're doing.

00:12:29.340 So all of that nice talk you had is totally irrelevant.

00:12:32.980 In fact, they look at that as a weakness.

00:12:35.120 Yeah, you know, it's interesting when you look at the, especially the real ideologues behind transhumanism, post-humanism.

00:12:43.040 You know, it begins with playing God, tinkering with a genome, trying to create life yourself.

00:12:48.660 It then kind of moves into this dream of becoming gods to perfect one's genome or to merge the mind with a superior artificial intelligence to become kind of a digital master race.

00:13:01.240 But at the very end of that, right, at the most extreme end of that spectrum, you have this desire to build God,

00:13:08.580 to make an artificial intelligence system that moves from artificial general intelligence, human-level cognition, into artificial superintelligence.

00:13:18.080 And that is, by its very nature, a godlike entity.

00:13:21.900 You know, the Trump administration has been great on so many different fronts, but I've got to say, you know, the second day of the administration,

00:13:31.700 bringing out Sam Altman, bringing out Larry Ellison, bringing out Maha Yoshisan.

00:13:37.500 On the Stargate project.

00:13:40.900 All three of those men believe that artificial superintelligence isn't just the goal of their project,

00:13:49.000 but is the inevitable outcome of either their project or some similar project, say maybe Elon Musk's Colossus data center in Memphis.

00:13:58.280 That if you keep scaling up the data centers, the server capacity, then you will eventually produce something like a digital god.

00:14:09.000 So at Catholic University, and, you know, I got to say, Steve, in my discussions with people in private,

00:14:16.420 in the Q&A that happened during the event, and there was another smaller one after,

00:14:23.300 a lot of very informed people, a lot of them Catholic, some of them more mystical, some Orthodox Jewish,

00:14:31.240 but a lot of very informed people who are very, very concerned about this.

00:14:35.880 And there's two levels of concern. One is more mundane. What will the systems that we have right now do?

00:14:41.680 But then, of course, there's the more cosmic concern.

00:14:44.840 What happens if they actually do succeed in creating a machine that is smarter than human beings

00:14:49.900 and just de facto out of human control?

00:14:52.880 Before I go to Ben and Liz and get their input, you use the term reckless deployment.

00:14:57.780 What do you mean?

00:14:58.460 That's my main concern. I think that it shouldn't be dismissed, this idea of creating an artificial general intelligence

00:15:07.380 or superintelligence, but that is still just science fiction. That's just a dream that these guys are pursuing.

00:15:12.960 You think that's science fiction?

00:15:14.300 Fiction in the sense that it is not real yet. Good fiction predicts the future.

00:15:18.340 No, no, no. But science fiction means it's some sort of fantasy.

00:15:20.980 This is a demonstrable scientific goal they have that's not fiction.

00:15:28.520 And if you extrapolate out from what we have today, it will actually be a fact, scientific fact, will it not?

00:15:36.960 It could be. There's no way to know.

00:15:39.440 I mean, it's like so many things in futurism, you don't know until it happens.

00:15:43.240 But you know where they want it to go, and that's the important thing.

00:15:45.960 But what we do have right now on the ground are systems that are used as tools, but they're very unreliable tools.

00:15:53.460 They hallucinate. They misguide people.

00:15:56.240 They're used as teachers so that whether it be children or adults, people are turning to them as authorities on what is and isn't real.

00:16:07.100 And I think most disturbingly, people are turning to these things for companionship.

00:16:12.660 They're good enough that they can hold conversations with people and basically develop an emotional bond between humans and machines.

00:16:22.320 And this is happening by the millions.

00:16:24.580 Meta AI, you've got ChatGPT, people.

00:16:28.300 I know people who believe that it is a conscious entity and is their friend. 0.99

00:16:32.660 And these are not stupid people. 0.71

00:16:34.760 Maybe there's an emotional need that needs to be met that they can't meet with human beings. 0.99

00:16:39.680 But this is happening right now, and it's only growing.

00:16:43.100 So this reckless deployment is these companies obviously do not care about the well-being of the people that are using their products.

00:16:51.680 These companies care about, number one, probably profit.

00:16:55.040 And number two, the prestige of creating something that is so earth-shaking.

00:16:59.840 And at the end of that, they believe it will be a creature like us, that it will be deserving of rights, at least many of them, not all of them.

00:17:06.800 And there is that kind of radical fringe that believes that what they're creating is a digital god.

00:17:15.120 Ben Harmwell, let me start with you.

00:17:17.220 You're in Rome.

00:17:19.140 The church itself, they've had some conferences, but have been a little behind the curve, I think, in getting out in front of this.

00:17:25.800 This is why Catholic University was so shocking to me yesterday.

00:17:28.200 They had this amazing conference with all these leaders.

00:17:30.820 Although Cardinal Prevost took the name Leo XIV specifically because of artificial intelligence in this new post-industrial revolution, sir.

00:17:45.980 Good evening, Steve.

00:17:47.020 Good evening, Joe.

00:17:47.680 Look, this is a—let me start off with my response, Steve, to the words that you just said about the Catholic Church perhaps being a little behind the curve on the whole of the AI phenomenon.

00:17:58.740 And that's a fair enough accusation.

00:18:00.120 You can't really expect clerics, priests, bishops, or cardinals, many of them in their 70s and 80s, to be au fait and to understand profoundly a technology that even the people at its cutting edge haven't fully grasped yet.

00:18:18.820 But I think if we're looking to the Catholic Church to navigate this, perhaps we're already starting off on the wrong foot.

00:18:27.500 What the Catholic Church as an institution, also as the mystical body of Jesus Christ, can do is present those perennial values and truths about human nature, about pride, about humility.

00:18:41.500 And there's a huge dynamic between those two things.

00:18:44.440 Anyone listening to what Jalen was just saying, anyone with any basis of Christian formation will understand straight away the dynamics here between humility and pride in the whole of this project.

00:18:58.520 That is something that the Church can do, should do, and is doing in its own way.

00:19:04.780 One thing I would say about the new Pope, Leo XIV, taking that name, and I'll come on to this, on to Rerum Novarum, perhaps in a moment after the break or something.

00:19:15.220 But as an Augustinian, he has, one would hope, in his formation, since I think he joined at about age 14, the whole history and thought of Saint Augustine at his shoulders that he can draw upon.

00:19:32.160 And I think Saint Augustine would be a great navigator for the present age, not least coming back to this point about the essential virtue of humility in man's relationship with God.

00:19:44.940 That's the big danger. It's not so much, I think, the idea of this super intelligence that terrifies people rightly.

00:19:53.780 It's the idea that developing consciousness or awareness, there might become a will behind that intelligence that can't be controlled because it is massively too far ahead of us.

00:20:07.440 And this whole idea, as Joe was saying, about this idea of being a digital god, perhaps the Catholic Church, in reminding people to show some humility with our technology, with what we're inventing, can do a gentle recall and say, look, digital gods are, it is in the realm of, great realm of spiritual danger here for mankind.

00:20:35.620 And gently call people back to Yahweh, to Eloha, the original god, the god I think that we're all rather fond of.

00:20:48.520 Because it is God himself who has redeemed us and given us the ability to use our discernment.

00:20:56.180 Look, I'll close with this word, Stephen, and then I'll perhaps respond to Joe's points further on in the show.

00:21:04.360 I was saying in a conversation with a friend of mine the other day that half of my moral philosophy is formed by Holy Scripture and the other half by Stan Lee.

00:21:15.940 It's always a good opportunity to say, with great power comes great responsibility.

00:21:20.960 I think that's a truth that everyone can appeal to.

00:21:24.340 And that I think should be part of our calculation.

00:21:27.120 We are well into designing something that is a greater power than our ability to manage.

00:21:39.120 Joe, you had a response?

00:21:40.640 Yeah, I think Ben's point about St. Augustine is really, really important here.

00:21:47.620 Two things that Augustine taught that really had an impact on me.

00:21:52.160 One, that evil is the corruption or perversion of good.

00:21:56.660 So whatever evils you see in the world are reflective of good but are a corruption or an inversion of that good.

00:22:05.060 And with AI, you have exactly that.

00:22:08.960 You have, say, human beings as the image of God or the icon as image of God.

00:22:16.660 And what this is is an extension of that into the material world in which you've created this imitation of the image of God.

00:22:26.040 You know, they say Satan is the ape of God, the imitator of God.

00:22:30.860 AI is the ape of the image of God.

00:22:34.100 And another thing that Augustine said, there's a wonderful book, if the audience is so inclined, by the late David Noble called The Religion of Technology.

00:22:44.920 And he describes in great length Augustine's view on technology.

00:22:50.660 Of course, in that time, they didn't think of technology.

00:22:52.640 In fact, technology wasn't a word used commonly among the people until after World War II.

00:22:58.640 But he thought of it in terms of arts.

00:23:00.740 He thought of it in terms of craft.

00:23:02.180 And he described everything from the kind of artisan work or any of the levers and tools that were being used in his day in the second century, if I'm not mistaken, third century.

00:23:18.320 I'm so sorry.

00:23:19.180 Fourth century.

00:23:19.740 Anyway, my dating is terrible.

00:23:20.840 But these primitive arts and crafts for him, he saw them not as a sin in and of themself.

00:23:29.660 He saw technology, we'll say, as God's gift to man to alleviate the suffering of a fallen existence.

00:23:38.080 And that this was its proper place, that anything above and beyond that, which would have been, you know, for him, the extravagances of Rome, the extravagances of the theater and the Colosseum, that anything above and beyond that that comes to replace what is true and holy in a Christian's life, which would be God and Jesus, then that then becomes a sin.

00:23:59.440 But that point is just simply, and this is what they were saying at Catholic University.

00:24:03.220 I'm more extremist myself, but they were basically saying that we can capture the positive effects of algorithms, advanced algorithms for health, for defense, for the economy.

00:24:15.960 But it's when it crosses over into the realm of the machine being a being in and of itself, or as Max Tegmark draws the line, when it goes from being a tool to something that is out of one's control.

00:24:30.920 Liz, you got a couple of minutes on this before we go to break?

00:24:34.160 Sure. In Auerum Novarum in 1891, which was Pope Leo XIII's massive encyclical about the justice and dignity of the human person, and really prioritizing the rights of human beings, both in work and at home, and demanding that the Catholic Church work towards justice and dignity for everyone.

00:24:58.820 Look, my concern is, and Joe is right, where have we seen the digital God manifest in this world?

00:25:07.020 We have seen it in China, and that is who is going to be driving the AI agenda.

00:25:13.900 My biggest concern, though, is the last 12 years at the Vatican.

00:25:18.380 The Vatican, for generations, has brought in the great intellectuals of the world to educate the Pope and the Church on breaking technology, on the big issues of the time.

00:25:30.480 In the last 12 years, Francis has had the radical techno giants, Zuckerberg, Gates, those are the ones he has relied on.

00:25:41.620 He's brought in the climate change adherents.

00:25:44.820 We have to do a massive change where Leo XIV must address this issue immediately.

00:25:53.140 The Catholic Church teaches that man is both faith and reason, and a child of God.

00:25:59.400 We have our divine nature, and by imposing an artificial intelligence, that divine nature becomes exhausted, disappears.

00:26:12.400 And so this has to be the number one issue, because the Catholic Church has to seize the momentum and really establish itself as the final word in where artificial intelligence goes.

00:26:25.080 Because if we lose our humanity, which is, of course, the great civilization issue here, then we have lost our life and our ability to function as rational human beings who can distinguish between good and evil.

00:26:42.860 And our soul with it.

00:26:44.660 Hang on for a second.

00:26:45.560 Short commercial break.

00:26:47.160 Joe Allen's going to stick around for a few more minutes.

00:26:48.680 I've got Liz and Ben, and we're going to get down on it next in the War Room.

00:26:55.080 This July, there is a global summit of BRICS nations in Rio de Janeiro.

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00:32:03.120 Joe Allen, you are out and about here in the Imperial Capital.

00:32:06.180 You've got to bolt.

00:32:06.900 Joe, I'm going to give you a heads up.

00:32:08.340 Joe is going to co-host tomorrow from 5 to 7 with me.

00:32:11.880 Joe, your closing thoughts before you bounce.

00:32:15.120 You know, last time we saw each other in the flesh, that was December last year.

00:32:20.520 And at that time...

00:32:22.140 You were hammered at our Christmas party.

00:32:23.860 I was enjoying myself.

00:32:26.200 But, you know, I really was kind of on the fence about how much longer I would be covering this.

00:32:31.960 You know, we've been at this for four years.

00:32:33.440 Non-stop.

00:32:34.120 Over four years now.

00:32:35.160 And it just didn't seem like to me that people were really getting it.

00:32:40.380 It was kind of demoralizing.

00:32:43.180 Of course, I disagreed.

00:32:44.480 And that's what I talked to him about.

00:32:45.540 But that's...

00:32:46.140 I hate to say it.

00:32:47.200 I'm always right.

00:32:48.120 And he's Joe Allen.

00:32:49.800 Continue on.

00:32:50.760 You know, we'll have to debate that later.

00:32:54.340 But, you know, what's happened since Trump has come into office and since Trump has been

00:33:00.460 putting all of these tech titans, from Elon Musk to Sam Altman, at the forefront of his

00:33:06.840 goals for America in this golden age, is that you have now this response in the human that

00:33:14.480 there's something profoundly off.

00:33:16.800 That for all the good that can be done by closing the border, by ending foreign wars, 0.99

00:33:23.360 that it really won't amount to much if we end up elevating these priests of the cyborg

00:33:31.720 theocracy and allow their machines to determine the course of our human lives.

00:33:37.600 And so it's been amazing to see in the last few months that, you know, it's as if there

00:33:43.380 were always those fellow travelers that I recognized.

00:33:47.140 But suddenly you just see people waking up in a major way that artificial intelligence may

00:33:52.180 not be everything you read about in a science fiction book, but it is a very powerful force.

00:33:57.600 It will continue to be so increasingly.

00:34:00.460 And something must be done about it in the Catholic Church with Pope Leo XIV.

00:34:04.660 I think that that that parallel between Leo XIII and the Industrial Revolution and what we're

00:34:10.700 going into now, what our boy Klaus Schwab called the Fourth Industrial Revolution, that this

00:34:16.480 is, in fact, the singular challenge for humanity.

00:34:20.660 Because if all the other human goals are attained, the humanity of our of ourselves, our souls

00:34:27.920 will be corrupted if these people prevail.

00:34:31.440 Very profound.

00:34:31.960 And I'm impressed that a cracker like you knows so much about St.

00:34:36.360 Augustine, very impressive.

00:34:38.420 I read.

00:34:39.320 You know, you know, you do not read.

00:34:41.200 Joe Allen, we'll see you tomorrow.

00:34:42.480 I know you got to bounce.

00:34:43.500 You're going to be my co-host tomorrow from 5 to 7 p.m.

00:34:47.520 We've got something from this.

00:34:49.200 By the way, my phone blew up all day yesterday with this amazing one hour on live human organ

00:34:55.140 harvesting.

00:34:57.260 Let's go and play a clip.

00:34:58.340 And I'm going to bring in Ben is in Rome and and Liz, your is in Chicago.

00:35:04.480 I'm going to bring them both in.

00:35:07.300 You said something very powerful that's not repeated enough.

00:35:11.260 You said when you're not Catholic, but you said one of the issues with the secret deal

00:35:16.340 with the Catholic Church, it gives credibility to the regime, to the brutality, and it makes 0.50

00:35:22.100 it harder for not just Falun Gong, but for everybody else when you have such a powerful

00:35:26.380 spiritual institution as the Catholic Church, essentially in business with them and allowing

00:35:32.300 them to kind of run and oversee the religion in mainland China.

00:35:36.640 Can you expound on that?

00:35:38.020 Absolutely.

00:35:38.620 I mean, the the the Vatican deal is a total head scratcher for me.

00:35:42.240 You know, basically it was penned in 2018.

00:35:44.020 It's been renewed a number of times and it makes no sense because the the fate of Catholics 1.00

00:35:50.380 in communist China has only gotten worse the whole time.

00:35:53.200 Like you would think if the if the deal has the opposite effect, you would kind of get rid

00:35:57.260 of it.

00:35:57.520 Right.

00:35:57.760 Like, let's assume best faith.

00:35:59.480 Right.

00:35:59.640 They're thinking, hey, we want to make life better for the Catholic faithful.

00:36:02.720 They have not done that.

00:36:04.020 But what they have done, to your point earlier, is it basically says, look, you know, to the

00:36:08.900 world, look, the Vatican feels like you can kind of deal with this regime reasonably.

00:36:13.840 And, you know, and we can kind of negotiate around who the bishops will be.

00:36:17.980 And we don't actually know exactly the details of the deal.

00:36:20.620 Well, but I remember, you know, just before you were talking about Hong Kong earlier, just

00:36:24.200 before the national security law came into effect, I had the honor of interviewing one

00:36:29.360 of the Catholics I respect most out there, Cardinal Zen.

00:36:32.600 Right.

00:36:32.800 And of course, he was out there.

00:36:34.340 He's absolutely.

00:36:35.340 And he was out there explaining why does it not, you know, why is this a crazy idea?

00:36:42.200 And he was trying and the previous pope wouldn't see him.

00:36:44.440 And it was very sad.

00:36:45.720 And ultimately, that webinar, I had no idea how bad it had been for Catholics until I

00:36:50.160 was on that webinar.

00:36:51.060 I was like, this is really beyond the pale.

00:36:53.480 But ultimately, this is the issue.

00:36:56.340 Whoever you are, right, basically it puts, in Chinese, they call it putting powder on the 0.86

00:37:02.320 face of the regime, okay?

00:37:04.540 Like, if you know that someone is doing live organ harvesting, a crime yet to be seen on

00:37:09.840 this planet, and it's part of the normal operations of a regime, right?

00:37:13.780 How can you expect good faith in negotiation?

00:37:17.100 The great Jan, what, Jan Kellek from Epoch Times, amazing interview yesterday.

00:37:23.400 He's one of the top experts on live organ harvesting.

00:37:26.780 Before I get into this, Ben Harnwell, I know you're itching to give a response to Joe

00:37:31.320 Allen.

00:37:31.580 What do you got?

00:37:33.160 Joe said something very important just before he had to jump.

00:37:39.080 And I wasn't planning particularly in talking in great depth about St.

00:37:42.740 Augustine today.

00:37:45.640 However, just to remind folks that the new pope, Leo XIV, is from his Augustinian friar,

00:37:54.260 formed in the thinking of St.

00:37:56.920 Augustine, a great, to my mind, the greatest theologian philosopher in the church.

00:38:02.320 St. Augustine came up with a really intelligent concept of what evil is, because some people

00:38:14.900 thought, you know, it's a proactive, positive force in the world.

00:38:19.300 And then St. Augustine said, well, you know, it's difficult to think like that, seeing as

00:38:24.300 everything that is in the material universe was created by God, who is good.

00:38:29.060 So he came up with this idea, this concept of evil, as the absence of good.

00:38:34.120 The absence of God, by the way, but the absence of good.

00:38:37.880 I think the Latin term was privatio boni for that concept.

00:38:42.780 And if you're thinking now about what we're engaged in doing, and this is why, you know,

00:38:47.700 to bring this back to the idea that the Catholic Church might have something interesting to say

00:38:54.020 on this, the new pope might have something to say on this, formed as he is in the thinking

00:39:00.900 of St.

00:39:02.380 Augustine.

00:39:02.800 If you look at this project of artificial intelligence, artificial superintelligence,

00:39:08.940 it has the total absence of God there.

00:39:12.680 And with St.

00:39:14.400 Augustine's intuition, he would no doubt define this project as evil.

00:39:21.220 And I just want to throw that out there, Steve, because I think that's something that, as

00:39:26.320 I say, that just occurred to me on the back of what Joe was saying.

00:39:29.900 It's back to Mark.

00:39:32.420 It's back to Mark, what is it, 13, where the, you know, he sends the disciples and apostles

00:39:38.400 out early on to kind of teach and they come back and, you know, to heal and they come back

00:39:44.020 and they said, hey, we healed and we spread the word and we did all these things.

00:39:48.060 And he said, that's terrific.

00:39:49.260 And he says, however, people said that, you know, your inspiration is from Beelzebub, from

00:39:55.360 the devil, and they were spreading this.

00:39:57.500 And what Christ tells the apostles is that, hey, they can say anything about me, right?

00:40:03.120 Don't fret.

00:40:04.020 Just go about your work.

00:40:05.340 The only unforgivable sin, the only mortal sin is to blaspheme the Holy Spirit.

00:40:09.800 That's what it means.

00:40:10.780 AGI by definition.

00:40:12.340 And when Jesus Christ, who's the son of God and can forgive anything, tells you there's

00:40:18.940 something unforgivable, that there's something that even he can't wipe away, and that's to

00:40:25.880 blaspheme the Holy Spirit.

00:40:27.440 You ought to take your number two princelet and write that down.

00:40:29.980 That's what artificial general intelligence, that's what artificial intelligence, look at

00:40:33.320 the guys that are running this.

00:40:34.320 They're absolutely running it for power, ultimate power.

00:40:37.960 That's what's so scary about it.

00:40:39.140 This thing is off the track and heading down a track that's quite dangerous.

00:40:44.140 And knowing that the pope who's taken leave of the 14th, he said, because of artificial

00:40:47.340 intelligence has, because right now the argument is, oh, we have to do this because the Chinese

00:40:52.700 Communist Party is ahead of us and we can't let them get ahead of us.

00:40:55.440 And to know where the kind of the railhead of kind of spirituality and thinking about

00:41:02.420 this in the reverse of the absence of good, but actually infusing goodness into the system

00:41:09.600 is in business with the Chinese Communist Party.

00:41:12.540 Now, at this moment in time, this historic moment is exactly where you don't want to question

00:41:17.760 it.

00:41:18.100 Liz, you're in my too far off track there.

00:41:20.080 You know, that's why you have to decouple immediately from the CCP and this outrageous

00:41:27.160 deal.

00:41:27.820 You know, Human Rights Watch said yesterday that they are demanding that the pope take

00:41:33.640 an urgent review and to speak out against the persecution and oppression of people of

00:41:40.560 faith.

00:41:41.160 So there is momentum.

00:41:42.660 And Steve, you know, I'd like to think that this native son of Chicago, you know, Carl

00:41:48.080 Sandburg said Chicago, the city with broad shoulders.

00:41:51.520 Well, Leo's going to need broad shoulders to take on this issue of artificial intelligence.

00:41:58.260 And what I would like to suggest is this Catholic University seminar program conference should

00:42:04.780 be brought, same people, to the Vatican.

00:42:08.460 This should be the basis for an encyclical written.

00:42:12.280 His first encyclical should be about artificial intelligence.

00:42:15.460 That is why it is a pressing issue.

00:42:18.900 And the Catholic Church needs to speak viva voce on this issue and to raise the importance

00:42:25.920 of the human dignity of a person, that the soul must be the generation of society.

00:42:34.180 And so, I mean, that's what I'd like to see.

00:42:36.860 The Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences, which I think our good friend Ben has been involved

00:42:42.240 in, they should sponsor the exact same conference the Pope should attend it.

00:42:47.580 And from that should come a teaching document for the world, not just for the Catholic Church,

00:42:53.760 so that the Catholic Church can speak clearly and intelligently.

00:42:58.620 You know, the Catholic Church has been at the forefront, contrary to a lot of, you know,

00:43:02.600 public opinion, in the forefront of science from the beginning of time.

00:43:06.660 The first astronomer was a Catholic Jesuit priest.

00:43:12.300 I mean, so the Catholic Church, this is unnatural, but they've been falling behind.

00:43:17.460 And so, by taking Leo's name, he needs to not only decouple from the Chinese government, 0.53

00:43:25.360 which is, you know, the digital god that we're going to be battling in AI,

00:43:29.900 but speak with the voice of the apostles and Jesus Christ, and really step in the breach,

00:43:37.960 because that's what we have right now.

00:43:39.780 It's only been the tech giants that have been speaking about AI.

00:43:44.220 It is time for the moral voice of the church to be heard.

00:43:48.000 And this is the next six months.

00:43:50.440 He's got to decouple and repeal this deal, and then begin to address AI immediately.

00:43:57.040 And I love what was coming out of this Catholic University conference.

00:44:02.840 No, but here's the thing, Parnwell.

00:44:05.160 You can't speak authoritatively on the moral implications and the spiritual implications

00:44:13.200 in the world of artificial intelligence and the reckless deployment, as Joe Allen says,

00:44:19.360 if you're in partnership with the Chinese Communist Party,

00:44:22.000 because they're the most reckless of all on this matter that is, quite frankly,

00:44:27.820 going to dwarf everything we do about the balanced budget and everything we do about

00:44:30.920 any of the kinetic part of the Third World War.

00:44:32.600 You're about to have wars of incomprehensible brutality if we continue to go down this path.

00:44:38.600 Am I incorrect on that, that you can't speak on one hand as a spiritual authority

00:44:43.260 while you're in business with the criminal regime that's in back of many of the worst abuses

00:44:49.700 in the drive towards artificial general intelligence, sir?

00:44:54.620 Well, Steve, look, before we kneel down before this new pope

00:45:01.140 and give him moral and spiritual authority on these worldly political things,

00:45:08.080 we need to know where he's coming from.

00:45:11.520 You know, this, I think, was one of the first Catholic commentators to point out

00:45:16.160 that this pope, as cardinal, had been to China 12 times.

00:45:21.340 And so there's a legitimate question here is,

00:45:23.920 is this someone on the political prudential issues of the day

00:45:28.760 we can look towards for guidance and leadership?

00:45:33.200 And all I can do, Steve, is come back to this idea that came out of our discussion

00:45:37.700 yesterday.

00:45:39.500 Let's find out where he is with regards to the CCP.

00:45:42.900 Let President Trump, who hasn't condemned the forced organ harvesting of China yet, 0.89

00:45:49.900 let him come out with a declaration, let him draft it,

00:45:53.320 and let him publicly, publicly ask Pope Leo to co-sign it with him.

00:46:00.900 And if he doesn't, then we as Catholics and the evangelicals of goodwill who look to the Catholic Church

00:46:09.220 for moral leadership on this issue, then we will know where he stands

00:46:13.840 and we will be able to draw our own conclusions.

00:46:16.380 Liz, just a matter of reference.

00:46:20.980 You said it yesterday, and I meant to bring it up.

00:46:24.520 Is it over the last 12 years he's been to China, particularly after taking over the Augustinians?

00:46:31.340 Or is he actually, is it documented somewhere he's actually been to China a dozen times, 12 times?

00:46:36.740 No, he's been there several times, is what the quote was, Steve.

00:46:40.120 And I checked, there are no Augustinian missions in China whatsoever.

00:46:46.220 It doesn't appear that there's any priests there.

00:46:48.520 And, you know, I was laughing because I was thinking about what Trump did yesterday

00:46:53.220 with the South African president, Ramposo, who said,

00:46:56.780 oh, no, no, nothing's here, and there is no genocide.

00:46:59.080 And then he flipped on, turned off the lights, acted like the director he is,

00:47:03.380 and showed him what the reality is.

00:47:07.280 I might suggest that if the Pope doesn't recognize that this China deal

00:47:13.160 is an absolute disaster and causing untold persecution.

00:47:17.980 In fact, many have said that the intensity of the persecution is as bad,

00:47:24.180 if not worse, than the Cultural Revolution.

00:47:27.420 So, you know.

00:47:29.080 Wow.

00:47:29.620 So I think, and that came from the Bipartisan Congressional Executive Commission on China.

00:47:35.120 So I think it really needs, the pressure is turning up.

00:47:39.540 The Cardinals actually were saying in the first meeting with the new Pope

00:47:44.480 that the China deal kept coming up among the Cardinals.

00:47:48.320 So I think we, the War Room needs to keep the heat on.

00:47:51.660 They need to write to their bishops and their Cardinals that they want this deal repealed.

00:47:56.400 I would also mention to everybody, this Saturday, May 24th, is the World Day Prayer for China.

00:48:04.540 And that, you know, our prayer is that this deal get repealed,

00:48:08.360 and that the persecution is exposed, and that voices now join together to outlaw this incredible religious freedom

00:48:20.380 that has been denied all the Chinese, not only just the Catholics.

00:48:25.400 So let's see what Prevost, the Dark Horse Prevost, as I call him, is really about,

00:48:33.280 and whether he will step up and begin to take on China.

00:48:38.260 And that's going to be a big lift, but it should be the first lift.

00:48:42.660 And that will free him to speak freely about the issues that need to be addressed in the world,

00:48:49.520 specifically artificial intelligence.

00:48:53.740 Liz, where do people go over this holiday weekend to get up with all your writings and social media and all of it?

00:49:01.080 Sure. I'm everywhere under Elizabeth Yor, all social media.

00:49:05.680 My website is yourchildren.com.

00:49:09.420 I'll be posting all sorts of information, including the prayer for this Saturday

00:49:15.580 to pray for all peoples of faith in China.

00:49:18.840 Thank you, Steve.

00:49:20.580 Amen, sister. Fantastic.

00:49:22.620 The great Liz Yor.

00:49:23.740 Ben Harnwell, where do people go to get all your amazing content that you put up?

00:49:28.280 Thanks, Steve.

00:49:30.560 Get as my social media platform of choice.

00:49:33.380 Just tap in my surname.

00:49:34.940 There I am, at Harnwell.

00:49:37.700 Thanks, Steve.

00:49:38.400 Thanks very much indeed.

00:49:39.140 God bless.

00:49:40.540 Ben Harnwell, fantastic.

00:49:43.080 Great session.

00:49:43.920 This is a huge priority.

00:49:45.820 You must tear—first off, we have to actually see it.

00:49:51.020 It's unacceptable.

00:49:52.240 It's been secret.

00:49:54.680 It's, I think, a humiliation to every person in the church, and a slap in the face to Lao 1.00

00:49:59.620 Bajin.

00:50:00.660 And you heard the Falun Gong situation yesterday with the live organ harvesting. 0.95

00:50:06.180 Think of how barbaric.

00:50:08.260 How could you do a deal with someone that does something that barbaric on an industrial scale,

00:50:13.560 government-sanctioned?

00:50:14.540 And what Jan said yesterday, it's a detriment to the underground evangelical house churches

00:50:20.420 and to the Falun Gong and to the Buddhists and everybody else that try to practice their 0.96

00:50:24.900 religion, which is a dictatorship of a bunch of murderous, atheistic thugs, right? 0.99

00:50:32.140 Absolute disgrace. 0.99

00:50:33.140 We're going to spend more time next week because the house wraps up their business.

00:50:39.220 Tuesday in Texas, 972 Patriot, support the folks that have kept Texas free.

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00:50:57.940 That's what you need.

00:50:58.960 It's no longer a debate about their service and or their commitment to liberty and to freedom.

00:51:07.000 Glenn's story and the team are the best.

00:51:08.700 PatriotMobile.com slash bandit.

00:51:10.560 Get a free month in your transition and installation.

00:51:14.760 Remember, it's simple, simple, simple, simple, simple.

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00:51:18.440 They've already got the three major providers, carriers they lay on top of.

00:51:25.540 That's a law that carves that out. 0.50

00:51:27.500 That's why they're so powerful.

00:51:29.600 Plus, they get every other upsell if you want to go talk to the customer service team.

00:51:36.660 Incredible.

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00:51:46.000 We'll be back tomorrow morning.

00:51:48.320 On weekend, we're on watch.

00:51:50.180 On Saturday, on Monday, all of it live with all the commemorations for our honored dead from West Point to Arlington National Cemetery.

00:51:58.500 Be a part of it.

00:52:00.000 Only in the war room.

00:52:01.000 We'll see you tomorrow morning at 10 a.m. Eastern Daylight Time.

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00:54:23.200 And cheers to your health.

Bannon's War Room - May 22, 2025

WarRoom Battleground EP 774： Catholics Reject The Digital Deity

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