Bannon's War Room - WarRoom Battleground EP 797： UK City Council Removes Pride Flag After Small Christian Bookshop Complains

00:00:00.000 This is the primal scream of a dying regime.

00:00:07.000 Pray for our enemies.

00:00:09.000 Because we're going medieval on these people.

00:00:12.000 I got a free shot at all these networks lying about the people.

00:00:17.000 The people have had a belly full of it.

00:00:19.000 I know you don't like hearing that.

00:00:20.000 I know you try to do everything in the world to stop that,

00:00:22.000 but you're not going to stop it.

00:00:23.000 It's going to happen.

00:00:24.000 And where do people like that go to share the big lie?

00:00:27.000 MAGA Media.

00:00:29.000 I wish in my soul, I wish that any of these people had a conscience.

00:00:34.000 Ask yourself, what is my task and what is my purpose?

00:00:38.000 If that answer is to save my country, this country will be saved.

00:00:44.000 War Room. Here's your host, Stephen K. Bannon.

00:00:48.000 Wednesday 25th of June, Anno Domini 2025.

00:01:01.000 Harnwell here at the helm on Steve Bannon's War Room,

00:01:04.000 doing what we do every Wednesday evening,

00:01:06.000 which is picking through all the latest developments,

00:01:09.000 both Catholic and evangelical spheres.

00:01:12.000 I'm looking at them really from a war room,

00:01:15.000 a MAGA in America first, where and when possible perspective.

00:01:20.000 Let's go straight into, because we've got a lot of articles to go through today,

00:01:24.000 a lot of developments, a lot of news.

00:01:26.000 Let's start.

00:01:27.000 My usual guests, Frank Walker and Jenny Holland join me.

00:01:31.000 Let's start with Frank.

00:01:34.000 And this is something that Pope Leo, Holy Pope Leo,

00:01:38.000 His Holiness said on Sunday,

00:01:43.000 which in the modern liturgies is when the church goes through the motions

00:01:48.000 of celebrating Corpus Christi.

00:01:52.000 And Pope Leo made that the occasion to intervene on international politics,

00:02:01.000 specifically the war between Israel, Iran and the American bombing.

00:02:08.000 Leo, Frank, why don't you talk us through what Leo was saying

00:02:12.000 and whether you noticed yourself any gaps, perhaps,

00:02:17.000 any things he neglected to consider or to mention or to refer to in his discourse?

00:02:25.000 Well, I suppose that he could have referred to the dangers of nuclear proliferation.

00:02:32.000 That might be something.

00:02:34.000 But what strikes me, and I think this is the umpteenth time that he's pushed this,

00:02:39.000 what I would call pacifism, peace, peace, peace,

00:02:43.000 they're constantly saying all the time,

00:02:45.000 as if complete peace all the time is Christianity

00:02:50.000 and nobody should ever fight against injustice.

00:02:53.000 Knights would never have been able to save us. 1.00

00:02:56.000 Knights used to be, you had a guest here a couple of weeks ago,

00:02:59.000 Raymond Ibrahim, talked about fighting in wars that can be good.

00:03:04.000 It can be a sign of love.

00:03:06.000 In fact, the opposite is really vice, is cowardice.

00:03:10.000 I didn't hear any of that in what he says.

00:03:12.000 And I think that the whole point of this piece really is to leverage on the side

00:03:17.000 of the people who are the offenders against the victims.

00:03:22.000 And, of course, the anti-Trump politicking.

00:03:25.000 This is a great opportunity to politic against Trump in the name of Christ.

00:03:29.000 Frank, I tell you what I didn't notice in this discourse was there was not only no reference to God,

00:03:39.000 but no reference to Jesus Christ either.

00:03:41.000 None that I saw in his discourse.

00:03:44.000 And it's a bit strange.

00:03:46.000 I think strange though, of course, I'm used to this.

00:03:50.000 To see our Catholic prelates talking about peace without invoking the Prince of Peace himself.

00:03:59.000 You know, you said a couple of things here.

00:04:01.000 It was the Old Testament false prophets, right, who went about crying peace, peace, where there is no peace.

00:04:08.000 But, you know, you make a good point here.

00:04:12.000 And that is, I'm not sure, taking both the New and the Old Testament taken together,

00:04:20.000 I'm not sure that the Catholic Church should have an instinctive preference,

00:04:26.000 at least if it's going to intervene on these things, for peace in the absolute, in the abstract,

00:04:32.000 unless it's also founded on justice.

00:04:35.000 I think, you know, that's what Raymond Ibrahim was also sort of mentioning a few weeks ago.

00:04:41.000 That is to say, I think the Catholic Church should, you know,

00:04:47.000 if we're talking about papal interventions in issues which are complex and detailed,

00:04:53.000 I think the Catholic Church should reach beyond just banal platitudes if it wants to be taken seriously, right.

00:05:02.000 And, of course, Jesus Christ said, you know, I've not come to bring peace but put a sword as well,

00:05:09.000 which is also a factor.

00:05:10.000 That is to say, it is not the Catholic Church's primary purpose on the international stage

00:05:18.000 when making political interventions just to promote peace in the abstract, not remotely.

00:05:26.000 The role of the Catholic Church is to promote the Gospel and the Kingdom of our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ.

00:05:33.000 First and foremost, if you do that, if you do that,

00:05:38.000 and if everybody of the six billion people on the face of the planet inculcated in their hearts a love towards Jesus Christ,

00:05:47.000 then perhaps an authentic peace might emerge out of it.

00:05:51.000 One would reasonably hope so.

00:05:52.000 But until that is the case, you know, the Catholic Church are talking about peace without the proper foundations.

00:05:58.000 It's going to be like, is this from the Psalms?

00:06:00.000 It's like the pelican on the rooftop squawking away all by itself, you know.

00:06:05.000 Anyway, just give me your response to what I just said, if you wouldn't mind on that.

00:06:11.000 And then I'll read a quote from this thing and then we'll cut over to Jenny.

00:06:16.000 What he's what he's doing is he's scolding people who are actually being virtuous and they're fighting to fight as a soldier on the battlefield and offer your life for your country is a very, very high virtuous thing.

00:06:32.000 And from the from the pope himself and not just him, but the political leaders who try to fight on behalf of what's right, on behalf of what's just the pope for him, for him to say these things all the time, this pacifism, which is a heresy, is scolding people for actually being virtuous and undermining virtue.

00:06:52.000 And when you undermine virtue from Rome itself, you're creating a planet of people who are cowards.

00:06:59.000 You know, there's you know, he there was nobody hurt in this attack on Iran. 0.99

00:07:05.000 And there was that, you know, there was it was a very limited and they were evacuated at first.

00:07:12.000 But he's, you know, he's talking about mothers and children as if he as if Trump and, you know, generally, you know, hinting that perhaps Trump has hurt children.

00:07:23.000 And that's sort of in a way that's kind of a blood libel, actually, under the circumstances.

00:07:27.200 What he did here may somehow be leading to peace through strength, like they say.

00:07:33.360 These things are all possible under just war teaching in the church.

00:07:36.860 Look, as people who follow me on Ghetto will know, I've been incredibly right from the first moment against both the Israeli bombarding of Iran, but also the U.S. bombarding of Iran.

00:07:51.880 And they're against that.

00:07:55.260 But we can go, but for political reasons.

00:07:57.560 So we can we can just go discuss those at another time.

00:08:00.560 What I was, you know, so I said that I don't want anyone to, you know,

00:08:06.080 I have, you know, I don't want anyone to think there's a contradiction to what I'm saying.

00:08:09.620 I was against those bombings.

00:08:11.480 But from a religious perspective, specifically a Christian perspective.

00:08:16.180 And again, this thought comes to me as I hear you're speaking, Frank, that.

00:08:23.260 About you say about pacifism being a heresy.

00:08:25.840 Look, is there a parallel here between the Orthodox Jews in Israel who refuse to be called up to fight and refuse to some extent to recognize the foundation, the foundation of the secular state of Israel?

00:08:43.180 Because they say it wasn't founded by the promised Messiah, which from a Jewish perspective is coherent. 0.96

00:08:48.640 Coherent, I didn't say it was correct.

00:08:52.420 It's coherent.

00:08:53.560 Is there a parallel, do you think, between the Orthodox position there in refusing to recognize the legitimacy of the secular modern state?

00:09:04.120 And Catholics saying that the Pope shouldn't be promoting peace unless it is a peace founded on Jesus Christ?

00:09:14.380 Because both of these things are predicated on God and his promises, right?

00:09:21.900 If you just wore teaching is, I think, critical to power.

00:09:27.780 So if you're trying to support a valid government, whether it's that, you know, you don't like the secular state, so you're not going to support that, you don't consider that just.

00:09:36.780 If Catholics constantly teach peace as if it were Catholic teaching, there wouldn't be, if they did that all the time, there wouldn't be a church in Europe. 0.97

00:09:46.580 There would be no cathedrals anywhere.

00:09:48.940 They're just handing power over to the enemy.

00:09:51.040 So depending on whether or not, it's key, whether or not their cause is just, fighting battles is important.

00:09:58.120 It's a great virtue.

00:10:00.100 And, you know, I think that I don't, you know, the ins and outs of what's going on in the Middle East are very complicated right now.

00:10:06.040 And especially when you get to Trump, you know, I don't know whether the war is just.

00:10:09.880 But if you constantly are teaching that it's never, ever just, that nothing good, you know, war always is bad.

00:10:16.940 It's never good, even quotes Pius XII, I think, you know, outside of context, saying that, you know, war is always bad.

00:10:25.360 It never accomplishes anything.

00:10:27.320 You know, you're just capitulating is what you're doing.

00:10:31.240 Let me be precise about this, because I wasn't against the bombing because I'd invoked my own interpretation of just war theory.

00:10:40.300 I was against the bombing because I didn't see how it fitted within, how can I say, a strict definition of the America First philosophy.

00:10:49.300 That was the reason particularly I was against it.

00:10:52.580 I'm sure you could, I'm sure theologians could make a valid argument for invoking just war theory on that.

00:10:59.800 I'm sure others will also say not, because of course it depends on the fundamental reality of whether the Iranians,

00:11:06.800 whether the Ayatollah himself had actually greenlit a resumption of nuclear, the nuclear weapons making program.

00:11:15.560 Because if he hadn't done, then a preventative strike become, it then becomes far more difficult to sustain.

00:11:22.420 But it was more against the America First aspect.

00:11:24.860 But thanks for that, Frank.

00:11:26.500 And we'll come back to, I'm sure, in future episodes.

00:11:29.640 Let's go now to the UK, this story here, this development about the assisted dying bill in the UK, Jenny.

00:11:38.340 Firstly, could you tell us a bit about that?

00:11:40.200 But also tell us, because here, in the particular reference to this that we have here,

00:11:45.640 there was a Labour MP who is associated with something called Blue Labour.

00:11:52.960 And this is something I think Steve has had on the show also in the past.

00:11:57.740 Just tell us a bit, if you wouldn't mind, the Blue Labour thing is, again, remind us.

00:12:01.700 And then say about the assisted dying bill.

00:12:04.660 And then say whether you're surprised that a Labour MP actually ended up voting against it.

00:12:10.900 And what that might mean.

00:12:11.840 So, yes, of course.

00:12:13.560 So, Blue Labour is a blue-collar wing group within the Labour Party.

00:12:22.600 And as you know, and your audience probably knows, the UK Labour Party is very, almost entirely quite far left and progressive

00:12:31.040 and has all but abandoned the British working class in a multitude of ways.

00:12:37.760 So, I was surprised that a Labour MP voted in that way, only in that I was surprised that there are still vestiges

00:12:46.180 of the old traditional working class, conservative social values ethos within the Labour Party.

00:12:55.780 I was relieved to see that it hasn't completely gone extinct.

00:13:00.000 Now, you know, the vote is not set in stone yet.

00:13:03.760 It now has to go to the House of Lords.

00:13:05.460 And there is still, I suppose, a chance of stopping it.

00:13:09.160 But it seems to have very strong momentum in spite of very loud, very vocal concerns raised against it from sort of across the spectrum.

00:13:19.160 I mean, here in Northern Ireland, all but one of our MPs voted against it, including the more traditional sort of staunch religious Protestant parties,

00:13:28.740 the smaller ones and the larger ones, but also even the MP for Alliance, which is a very progressive party.

00:13:34.080 So, I think people are voting on this along more personal lines than party lines.

00:13:39.960 However, it's a very dark bill and it's likely to become law.

00:13:49.020 When you were speaking a moment ago about Leo, Pope Leo and his banal platitudes, I think you called them about peace,

00:13:58.520 it brought to mind what the Church of England's reaction to the assisted dying bill was.

00:14:04.360 And that was to give out an incredibly bureaucratic and anodyne statement calling the bill unsafe, which, I mean, I honestly have to laugh.

00:14:17.620 I mean, it's almost like a Monty Python skit that, you know, the Church of England, which is supposed to be the moral center of the United Kingdom

00:14:25.460 and this historic institution, called a bill that would allow the government to off its own citizens unsafe.

00:14:34.400 I mean, it almost seems like that's kind of the point.

00:14:36.940 And I don't mean to be a reverend.

00:14:38.260 I don't mean to be glib, but it's almost like dark humor at this point.

00:14:42.160 You know, a point, an observation to that, which I could have made when we were talking about the Leo's, Pope Leo's intervention on the war.

00:14:56.460 It is as if both the Church of England and the Catholic Church these days, and not just these days, for decades,

00:15:03.480 they will do absolutely anything to avoid talking about Jesus Christ in the public sphere.

00:15:09.940 It doesn't matter what somersaults they have to do, what contortions they have to do.

00:15:15.820 If they can come out with a pseudo-innocuous banal platitude, that was the expression, right, a banal platitude,

00:15:23.340 if they can come out with just some meaningless word salad, right, to avoid having to actually refer to Jesus Christ, they will do that.

00:15:35.200 And that's been the case for decades.

00:15:37.480 And it is almost the case that I'd say that the better able you are to just produce these meaningless sort of press releases,

00:15:49.160 the more likely you are to see advancement within your respective ecclesial communion.

00:15:58.460 Absolutely.

00:16:01.680 Absolutely.

00:16:02.080 By the way, I think for the last 30 years in the UK, Islam has been the world's, has been the UK's fastest growing religion.

00:16:14.860 Yes.

00:16:15.700 Oh, you know, we're going to come on to this, because you have another story from a couple of weeks ago,

00:16:20.260 but we'll come on to that in the second half, because I think that ties into this.

00:16:25.940 But Islam, but just to give it its due, when it comes to banal platitudes, it sort of reacts to banal platitudes, 0.91

00:16:35.340 like Superman to kryptonite, they don't go anywhere near it.

00:16:39.460 You know, if you look at what the Muslims are saying, it's normally coherent, very clear, and take it or leave it.

00:16:46.160 And people respond to that in the religious sphere, in the political sphere as well, but especially the religious sphere.

00:16:54.700 People respond to that, because they don't want to be participating in a make-it-up-as-you-go-along religion.

00:17:01.880 Yes, absolutely.

00:17:03.180 I mean, it seems to me at this point, and I don't mean to sound like a rabble-rouser,

00:17:07.140 but it seems to me that the elites, both in government and in the churches, are almost unsalvageable.

00:17:15.180 They have yet to provide any clear moral authority.

00:17:20.380 They're constantly speaking out of both sides of their mouth.

00:17:23.440 And as you say, they're not delivering what all of the numbers are showing people actually want,

00:17:30.940 which is, as you say, coherence, a sort of a spine, moral fortitude,

00:17:37.600 and a sense of meaning, even if it requires sacrifice.

00:17:44.160 When you listen to leaders across the spectrum, you get the sense that they would do anything to stay in power

00:17:53.160 and will sacrifice nothing for a belief, which is the exact opposite of what regular people are now picking up on

00:18:02.840 as something that they need in their lives.

00:18:05.120 And this is shown over and over again.

00:18:08.160 And when it comes to the Labour Party and the Keir Starmer version of the Labour Party,

00:18:12.520 like the Tony Blair change of the Labour Party, you have to give them their due, too,

00:18:19.160 because progressives are going to progressive.

00:18:21.680 That is what they are.

00:18:22.920 That is what they're going to do, and you expect that from them.

00:18:25.180 But to see something like the Church of England issue almost like an HR department's memorandum about how,

00:18:35.100 oh, dear, well, maybe this isn't safe when we're talking about killing off elderly and sick patients

00:18:42.060 on an already very overtaxed NHS, I mean, that to me deserves far more ire

00:18:48.140 than the Labour Party leaders that are trying to push this through.

00:18:57.220 Look, before we move on from this, I saw something in the UK press last week,

00:19:03.220 and though I didn't flag it up to you, I wonder whether you noticed it yourself,

00:19:07.200 that at the very time they're discussing this assisted dying bill,

00:19:10.220 they're also discussing the cuts to disability benefits, because, of course, the money simply isn't there.

00:19:15.780 And the money's definitely not going to be there if the UK is even going to attempt to meet

00:19:20.640 its new 5% defence spending commitments.

00:19:26.140 It's not going to attempt that, not remotely.

00:19:29.200 Whatever NATO said earlier on today in the Netherlands,

00:19:33.920 there's no NATO country that is going to go anywhere near 5%.

00:19:37.980 Look, just to open brackets, Russia's in the middle of a war,

00:19:42.480 when I think its defence spending is 6.3%.

00:19:47.280 There is no way that lazy Europeans addicted to welfare are going to tolerate a 5% expenditure on defence 1.00

00:19:55.580 when there is clearly and manifestly no imminent threat.

00:20:00.000 Not going to happen.

00:20:01.300 So I'll be looking at that, putting my international editor hat on,

00:20:05.780 to see how, having affirmed that they're going to meet 5%,

00:20:10.600 I want to see how they're going to regulate it.

00:20:12.160 But the point is this, the money's not going to be there.

00:20:16.380 And do you draw, do you have your cynical beady eyes on this, as I do, Jenny?

00:20:22.160 Yes, absolutely.

00:20:22.460 Do you see a link here between the cuts to disability spending on the one hand

00:20:28.080 and the gentle sort of shuffling off the stage of people in the end-of-life condition?

00:20:35.420 Because, of course, I think in the UK, where we have the National Health Service,

00:20:39.340 I think the statistics are that like 90% of a person's health budget

00:20:43.880 are used up in the last six months of life.

00:20:45.980 That is a 90% of the total NHS expenditure on a person on average

00:20:51.320 is used up in that end-of-life situation.

00:20:53.700 So if you can get people to willingly embrace their own demise earlier,

00:20:59.260 that's going to be huge, huge, huge savings across the board for the NHS.

00:21:03.560 So just quickly, before we move on,

00:21:05.220 do you see any connection between these two phenomena?

00:21:07.700 Absolutely.

00:21:08.820 Absolutely.

00:21:09.520 And, you know, my mind can't go to the sort of the darkest place

00:21:13.540 that you might follow that down to.

00:21:16.860 But that is what MP Dan Corden,

00:21:19.460 who is this Labour Party MP that we mentioned at the beginning,

00:21:23.840 that was the concern he raised.

00:21:26.320 He said, I am from a working-class area

00:21:28.520 where people are very aware of the terrible state of the existing health service

00:21:35.640 and the difficulties with palliative care

00:21:37.680 and the gaps in the resources to help people

00:21:40.820 who I would say many of them have been taxpayers their whole lives

00:21:44.400 and help families through those very tough last few years and months.

00:21:50.920 And that is why he said,

00:21:52.540 I cannot justify voting yes to support assisted dying

00:21:56.500 because it's just too close for comfort.

00:21:59.140 The inability of the state to take care of the existing sick people,

00:22:03.700 it's just too close for comfort then to add in assisted dying

00:22:08.420 as if that's not going to become a preferred option

00:22:13.520 from a very overtaxed and inefficient NHS.

00:22:19.800 Thanks, Jenny.

00:22:20.520 Just hold on there.

00:22:21.300 We'll come back to you in a few minutes.

00:22:24.120 Frank, we've got a break coming up,

00:22:26.060 but can you just give me the readout of this poll

00:22:28.860 that came out a couple of days ago?

00:22:31.320 Because obviously the Catholic Inc. press has jumped all over this

00:22:36.540 saying how beloved Pope Leo is and how well he's been received.

00:22:41.000 But I noticed on your website, Canon 212,

00:22:43.560 you've really sort of dug down a little bit into the statistics there

00:22:46.580 and all is not as it appears.

00:22:49.420 Well, this is a Catholic magazine here,

00:22:52.080 but no matter where you are,

00:22:53.440 you never ever get a poll of actual practicing Catholics.

00:22:58.680 You may be once in a while you get it, but very rarely.

00:23:02.500 And so what they hear or are doing,

00:23:03.740 they're asking people, a group of people whom maybe 10% of them

00:23:07.600 actually go to Mass and say more than a prayer a day

00:23:12.140 or something like that.

00:23:13.100 And they're using this as an example to say that,

00:23:15.460 you know, people are very favorable about him.

00:23:17.900 So, and then they have 65% of them are somewhat favorable.

00:23:22.160 So that means, I think that's kind of a tepid favorability,

00:23:25.680 and especially when it comes to Catholics,

00:23:28.260 35% of them, they must not like Leo.

00:23:31.740 That's a lot of people not to like Leo.

00:23:33.640 And if they don't like Leo, why?

00:23:35.260 I mean, they hardly even know him.

00:23:36.560 They don't know anything about him.

00:23:37.680 He hasn't said much that they would know.

00:23:40.840 You'd think that they at least give him a chance.

00:23:43.540 Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

00:23:45.960 If Steve were here in this chair, it would be, hold on a bit, hold on it.

00:23:49.820 Don't bury the lead, right?

00:23:51.200 6% of American Catholics, that's like more than one in 20, right?

00:24:00.000 One in 20, this is more than one in 20.

00:24:03.180 Said they have a very or somewhat unfavorable opinion of him.

00:24:07.880 Yes.

00:24:08.180 Are these our guys?

00:24:09.340 Are these our guys?

00:24:11.020 Well, that's my question.

00:24:12.200 And what are they?

00:24:13.320 Are they faithful Catholics or are they more on the left side?

00:24:16.880 Because the poll shows that Republicans likely, I mean,

00:24:19.800 Democrats like Leo better than Republicans.

00:24:22.200 And even among the Republicans, you know, you see,

00:24:24.720 I think that this wing, this 10% here that definitely,

00:24:28.760 not just somewhat, but definitely doesn't like Leo.

00:24:31.920 I think that's where you find the Catholics.

00:24:34.260 I think most of the Catholics.

00:24:35.340 And as far as Republican goes, that's where you find what they would call

00:24:38.960 the conservative or the MAGA Catholics.

00:24:43.000 I think that's what this poll says, that MAGA Catholics and conservatives don't like

00:24:46.700 Leo any more than they did Francis.

00:24:48.220 And this is when they don't know him yet.

00:24:50.080 There's a big chunk of people in this poll that don't know.

00:24:52.740 They say, I don't know.

00:24:53.460 I don't know.

00:24:53.760 I'm giving them a chance.

00:24:54.720 But I would expect that over the coming months and years that this favorability is going to

00:24:59.760 deteriorate as they, you know, as the scam news kind of filters through and the reality gets

00:25:05.700 there.

00:25:05.920 And they see his politicking.

00:25:07.520 They mentioned his politicking, his lady church, his bishop appointments.

00:25:12.780 Faithful Catholics are noticing this stuff.

00:25:14.920 You know, they're getting past, oh, there's a huge new wave of media campaigning.

00:25:20.260 I mean, when he goes out there, they have people kissing his ring.

00:25:23.600 Thousands of seminarians are bursting out in Latin hymns.

00:25:27.140 Where do they know this?

00:25:29.060 Francis Church taught seminarians Latin hymns.

00:25:31.820 You know, they have everything carefully programmed to make him look Catholic here.

00:25:37.480 But I don't think the MAGA Catholics are buying it. 0.65

00:25:41.080 60 seconds.

00:25:41.940 No, I certainly don't think MAGA Catholics are buying it. 0.94

00:25:45.160 60 seconds, right?

00:25:46.380 You're the number one Catholic news aggregator.

00:25:51.220 No one follows these things or has a better feeling of these things than you.

00:25:55.560 Tell me, on the basis of what you were saying, what's your time frame for MAGA Catholics or

00:26:04.300 for the unknowns to start forming an opinion that will lean potentially in our direction?

00:26:10.800 Well, I noticed that, you know, it's a small thing, but Eric Sammons, just in a tweet, Eric

00:26:17.820 Sammons is the head of Crisis Magazine, and there's some other papers, and that's sort of

00:26:22.060 an establishment faithful Catholic source.

00:26:25.540 And he mentioned the fact that, you know, he's hearing pushback that Leo only has a traditional

00:26:31.240 veneer.

00:26:32.240 But then underneath that, he's not really a faithful Catholic.

00:26:36.240 He's not really a conservative.

00:26:37.220 The fact that he mentions that that is even an issue out there is a sign to us that it's

00:26:43.180 starting to turn, that they're having to recognize that their propaganda is kind of falling flat

00:26:48.240 and slipping through the cracks.

00:26:50.400 So I think it's time.

00:26:51.640 I can see it turning now.

00:26:54.280 Whether this is a veneer or a laminate, we'll discover after the break.

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00:31:29.040 War Room.

00:31:30.120 Here's your host, Stephen K. Mann.

00:31:37.680 Welcome back.

00:31:38.720 Now, Jenny Holland, I know that you're doing a podcast of your own on this next story,

00:31:46.720 and I'll give out the references of where people can go at the end of the show on that,

00:31:51.340 because I know you have a great deal of insights in this story.

00:31:54.800 Tell me about this article from a short while ago by the Catholic News Agency,

00:32:01.440 which listed that Catholics now are number Anglicans among Gen Z in the UK.

00:32:08.720 And break that down for us.

00:32:11.460 Yeah.

00:32:12.100 Yeah.

00:32:12.740 So according to the story, with polls done by the Bible Society, which is a charity,

00:32:20.060 and YouGov did surveys of Catholics and Anglicans in the UK and found that in that Gen Z cohort,

00:32:28.880 the Catholics outnumber the Anglicans two to one.

00:32:31.820 And this really tracks with everything that I'm observing, both in my own experience and also online.

00:32:41.800 And the I mean, what we were talking about before about the Church of England saying that the assisted dying bill was unsafe,

00:32:47.260 and also the decriminalization of late-term abortion was worrying.

00:32:52.120 I mean, if not even the Church of England is going to stand up for its own principles,

00:32:56.460 why would young people who are really lost and struggling in a multitude of ways,

00:33:03.960 why are they going to reach for the Church of England as a life raft that they need?

00:33:08.240 They're not.

00:33:08.800 If you stand for nothing, you get nothing.

00:33:12.300 So it's not a surprise to me at all that they are turning towards Catholicism.

00:33:18.480 And I know from other sources that many of them, if not most of them,

00:33:22.880 I would just guess that, in fact, probably all of them are going toward the traditional Latin Mass

00:33:30.240 because young people have borne the brunt of a totally secular society.

00:33:38.840 My generation, which is Gen X, we were old enough to have lived off the fumes of the greatest generation 1.00

00:33:47.420 generation and the way children were raised since time immemorial, we got the tail end of that.

00:33:53.800 So we have a little bit more of a grounding.

00:33:55.800 But by the time you get to Gen Z, these kids have been raised without any guardrails 0.85

00:34:01.480 and in a totally secular environment.

00:34:03.680 I spoke yesterday to a young woman.

00:34:05.920 She's a millennial, but a young woman who detransitioned. 0.73

00:34:09.780 So she left the gender cult.

00:34:12.320 And she said she felt like she was drowning in tar and she had no solid ground to stand on.

00:34:18.800 And she was trying to make herself into a little god.

00:34:21.380 And that is because that's what secular culture teaches children and young people.

00:34:26.020 And what rescued her was returning to the Catholic Church and re-familiarizing herself with God

00:34:33.200 and Jesus and Mary.

00:34:35.640 And it's, I mean, it's incredible to hear because these stories are very uplifting.

00:34:41.180 And I found this story in the Catholic News Agency to be quite reassuring, especially

00:34:45.820 because, you know, young people are needed to re-energize common sense morality.

00:34:53.720 They are really at the coalface.

00:34:55.460 They're the ones that are going to have to do it.

00:34:57.420 You know, it's no use old codgers like me talking about it.

00:35:00.240 They're the ones that are going to have to do it for themselves.

00:35:02.320 And hopefully because they're young and still of childbearing years, they will have children 0.93

00:35:06.420 and raise them accordingly.

00:35:07.840 And maybe, just maybe, although the odds are still stacked against us all, we can return

00:35:12.740 to, like I said, common sense morality.

00:35:16.060 I have an excerpt from this article, from this poll, which I will troll you with, Jenny.

00:35:30.260 In addition, it says, over a fifth of men aged 18 to 24, which is 21%, now say they are attending

00:35:39.680 church monthly, which is higher than their female peers at 12%.

00:35:45.860 So it's just a few points away from almost being literally double.

00:35:52.320 And I hate to say this, folks, but Christianity is a patriarchal religion. 0.85

00:36:00.300 It is.

00:36:03.020 It's not an objective reality because Ben Harnwell said it is.

00:36:07.760 That is just the case.

00:36:09.040 Christianity is a patriarchal religion. 0.79

00:36:11.080 It follows on Judaism, which is also, follows out from, it grows out from Judaism, which is 0.90

00:36:16.080 also a patriarchal religion, as is Islam.

00:36:18.860 Well, I sort of see here, there's, you know, we've mentioned this, we've touched on this

00:36:23.780 a few times in the past.

00:36:25.400 There is definitely a moment going on for guys, for chaps, for men right now, not only in politics,

00:36:32.020 but also in religion.

00:36:34.000 And to see young guys here getting churched up, I think, in terms of its future implications,

00:36:46.360 in the, what's the Latin, the ecclesia domestica, the house church, the idea that men will once

00:36:53.060 will once again, this is after a lapse of centuries, right?

00:36:56.420 The idea that men will step forward and resume a role of leadership in church matters, in

00:37:04.740 religious matters, in faith matters, in the home, I think that is going to be, even if 0.81

00:37:10.780 the numbers are small, even if we're talking 21%, that is really going to be the yeast that

00:37:15.160 makes the bread rise.

00:37:16.520 I'm absolutely convinced of that.

00:37:19.380 And you see these statistics.

00:37:20.520 I'll give away to you on this point, right?

00:37:22.600 I've seen, I saw it again the other day, this statistic, that if you really want to make

00:37:27.600 sure your kids go to church when they're adults, it has to be the father that takes them to

00:37:35.680 church.

00:37:36.340 And this is like both Catholic and Protestant, though the Catholics, I think, have done quite 0.99

00:37:40.280 a bit of research on this, has to be the father that takes the kids to church.

00:37:45.700 If it's only the mother, especially if we're dealing with sons here, if it's only the mother 0.98

00:37:51.100 that takes their sons to church, those kids are almost never likely to continue church going.

00:37:58.580 If it's the father that takes them, especially if the father takes them by his kids, his sons,

00:38:05.040 by himself, that is factors higher, that those kids, especially boys, will continue active church going.

00:38:16.240 That is one of the most underappreciated but essential facts that I could identify to do with church going

00:38:23.460 and church practice.

00:38:24.560 I'll repeat that.

00:38:25.060 If you are religious parents, Christian parents, and you want your sons, especially sons, to continue church

00:38:34.740 practice as adults when they're living by themselves, it has to be the father that takes them to church on Sunday.

00:38:42.720 Okay.

00:38:44.360 I know you've got something to say on that.

00:38:47.760 Go ahead.

00:38:48.500 Yeah, I mean, you're bringing up the thorniest part of this and the most difficult because not only, you're right,

00:38:57.780 it's more among young men and there's been many studies and new stories about how young women in general

00:39:04.620 are becoming more left-wing and that's a real problem for obvious reasons.

00:39:11.160 And not only that, even if that stopped and young women, and I mean, I know anecdotally young women who are 0.71

00:39:20.960 turning toward the church and specifically the, like you say, accepting of the patriarchal dynamic of

00:39:28.980 Catholicism and Christianity.

00:39:31.420 But, you know, I don't know.

00:39:33.800 I genuinely don't know.

00:39:35.140 I'm not even making a rhetorical point.

00:39:37.280 I don't know how three generations of liberalism can be undone in terms of how women and men 1.00

00:39:48.960 interact.

00:39:49.720 And I personally, being a very secular person, being a very modern person, I grew up in a

00:39:54.340 liberal, secular world, I don't, I don't, I can't quite see how we can return to the old

00:40:01.400 way in that regard.

00:40:03.240 And I understand that, you know, a true return to God hinges on that point.

00:40:09.180 So that has to be worked out and it's going to be worked out individual to individual,

00:40:13.880 you know, young man to young woman, family to family.

00:40:17.960 And, you know, I can't really opine on, you know, how that's going to, how that's going to happen.

00:40:23.700 But I actually will say this, which I can opine on,

00:40:26.600 because it's very common to see in social media and even in news stories.

00:40:31.240 I think the Washington, sorry, the Wall Street Journal and the New York Times both publish

00:40:35.400 stories in this regard.

00:40:36.860 Women, you know, successful, liberal, secular career women lamenting the fact that they can't 1.00

00:40:43.200 find husbands. 0.99

00:40:44.920 And I think the, you know, for young people, the dating world is very grim right now.

00:40:50.340 And I can see that driving women to at least consider the more traditional options. 0.99

00:40:58.840 Okay.

00:40:59.360 Thanks, Jenny.

00:41:00.200 And I know you're going to be diving into these things more in that podcast that you're

00:41:04.420 preparing right now.

00:41:05.680 And as I say, we'll give out the pointers for that at the end of the show.

00:41:09.360 So let's get back over to Frank now, because here's a story.

00:41:13.420 Here's a story, Frank, that it's the McDaddy right now, the leading article on Canon 212,

00:41:21.260 your own website.

00:41:24.780 This is a post that Eric Sammons has put out, who's the editor of Crisis Magazine.

00:41:30.260 He's been on the show quite a few times with Steve.

00:41:34.980 And he says this, let me just read this out and then you give me your take on this.

00:41:39.120 This is what he says in his tweet.

00:41:41.520 I think that traditionalists who argue that Pope Leo is worse than Francis because he

00:41:47.180 just puts a traditional veneer on post-conciliar problems don't realise how vital a traditional

00:41:54.920 veneer is to overcoming those post-conciliar problems.

00:41:59.860 And you quite cleverly entitled this on your website that it's not even a veneer, basically.

00:42:06.640 It's more of a laminate.

00:42:07.920 But tell me first, before you break it down, tell me, just in your own words, what he's

00:42:15.820 saying at the point that he's trying to make, and then we'll analyse it.

00:42:20.620 Well, I think it's kind of a personal defence of his campaign and the people like him and

00:42:27.860 the more powerful Catholic media and what they're trying to accomplish.

00:42:31.720 You know, a veneer is a wood thing.

00:42:34.020 Laminate is more of a plastic.

00:42:35.340 But it shows who is actually paying the bills in the Catholic press, because those people

00:42:44.880 are not necessarily the friends of Catholicism.

00:42:47.240 Just like Jenny was saying, the elites in running the church, they don't really have the Catholic

00:42:52.560 faith.

00:42:52.980 This, they think, those elites, they think of our faith or faithful Catholics as being

00:43:00.880 something very shallow.

00:43:02.880 But we like the smells and bells, they always like to say.

00:43:06.780 We're going to be happy with just the Mass in and of itself.

00:43:10.260 But, you know, it's not, those things are meaningful to God, what happens in Mass.

00:43:15.880 But they're spiritual things.

00:43:17.260 There's not a lot of physicalness to it.

00:43:19.220 They think they can push the things that they see when they look at the Catholic Mass.

00:43:23.020 And they see this Leo's Corpus Christi event that he held this weekend.

00:43:27.020 They went back perusing through old pictures of Catholic popes in the past so they could

00:43:31.860 make it look really, really, really Catholic.

00:43:33.980 While he goes up there and he keeps spouting his same liberalism and really anti-Catholic

00:43:40.800 things.

00:43:42.180 I think that's what he's like.

00:43:43.980 I think that that's what's represented in the head of Crisis Mag's post here.

00:43:49.920 They think that we're that shallow that we're going to buy this.

00:43:52.660 That the veneer is really important.

00:43:57.840 Yeah, that's what they think.

00:44:00.380 That is exactly what they think.

00:44:01.980 This goes back to something that, you know, I try to get this into every show that we do,

00:44:07.920 right?

00:44:10.420 But this expression, because I like it so much because it captures exactly where I'm coming

00:44:15.100 from.

00:44:16.440 But when I hear the words Red Mozzetta, I reach for my gun.

00:44:20.660 Um, which is a play on, on, on, um, uh, on, on something that, um, that was, um, which,

00:44:32.300 which that was Field Marshal, um, blimey, the names fled from, from my, from, from my

00:44:40.380 going, Field Marshal going.

00:44:42.060 Um, when I hear the words attributed to him, when I hear the word culture, I reach for my

00:44:46.460 gun.

00:44:47.020 Um, when I hear the words Red Mozzetta, I reach for my gun because I know exactly the pitch 1.00

00:44:51.800 that they're going to do, which is basically just allow yourself to be persuaded and deceived

00:44:57.340 and led along because of a piece of vestment.

00:45:01.120 Um, and all will be well.

00:45:03.880 This, you know what, you know, you know what we used to call this in the UK, Frank?

00:45:07.700 Salvation through haberdashery.

00:45:09.980 Um, this is where these people are, right?

00:45:12.540 Because the Catholics have salvation by works. 0.99

00:45:17.060 The Protestants have salvation by faith.

00:45:21.320 And these guys here have salvation by haberdashery.

00:45:24.160 It's what's all, all the only important thing is, is what you wear, um, and then all will

00:45:29.620 be well.

00:45:30.380 Um, and I was astonished because Crisis Magazine is, um, a huge magazine in the Catholic world.

00:45:36.420 Um, um, it is on the, certainly on the right of the, on the conservative side, not the traditionalist

00:45:43.560 side, on the conservative side of the church.

00:45:45.140 It has a big, uh, footprint.

00:45:47.100 I was surprised to see the editor come out and say this.

00:45:50.420 Really?

00:45:51.060 I mean, Frank, I had no doubt.

00:45:54.160 I had no doubt.

00:45:55.900 This is actually what they were believing out there, but I was surprised to see them

00:45:59.320 come out and just say it straight up.

00:46:03.320 Yeah.

00:46:03.760 Um, what's the, uh, what's the solution?

00:46:06.960 Just give me, just give me a minute.

00:46:08.400 What's the solution to this?

00:46:10.100 Uh, what, what are good Catholics? 0.96

00:46:11.900 Uh, how are they to respond?

00:46:13.180 And if you can, if you feel yourself, um, open to it, what can good conservative evangelicals

00:46:19.700 be, um, who follow this show?

00:46:21.520 What can they be alive and alert to?

00:46:23.640 Because it's the same phenomenon taking place, I think, uh, change a few of the variables,

00:46:28.860 but it's the same sort of dynamic that is taking place, um, also in, in the Protestant

00:46:33.920 sphere to be satisfied, be bought off with the superficials, but let the underlying substance

00:46:39.240 be radically changed.

00:46:40.540 So just give me a minute on what your solution would be to this in both Catholic and Protestant

00:46:46.600 camps, if you wouldn't mind.

00:46:48.760 As, as you can see, there's, um, in the poll, I don't, I don't think there's a whole bunch

00:46:53.940 of people that are not being represented in this fake press.

00:46:57.600 And it's the same problem, like you mentioned last week with the Baptists. 0.96

00:47:00.320 And, and I remember Liz, you were saying leadership is what's needed and our community needs leadership.

00:47:06.500 And like Jenny is saying with the males, the men in the church, and how are we going to

00:47:11.560 solve the problem of years of decades of feminism? 1.00

00:47:14.660 Prayer and, and, uh, and the, the, the more masculine mass, which is the, the, the more

00:47:21.440 faithful masses that you can attend, those things can help a lot too.

00:47:25.220 But I, I'm glad to see that the, um, the story is starting to get out and, and whatever happens

00:47:30.220 in the Catholic church that our Protestant, uh, brothers, they look to the Catholic church.

00:47:35.700 They, in the past, they can look to us to stand up for things.

00:47:38.960 You know, now they look to us with sadness.

00:47:41.200 Oh, it's going the same way as everything else.

00:47:43.080 But I think that together, you know, we share actual, um, we take action, you know, we're,

00:47:49.420 we're the, the faithful Protestants and the faithful Catholics have a political force.

00:47:54.700 And if we have leadership, we can accomplish things together.

00:47:57.360 So I think they should learn that we, we need to, we need to come out from under this, uh,

00:48:01.800 this big blanket that they're throwing over our heads and the, and the Catholic media and

00:48:06.160 the hierarchy, the hierarchy and the, and the regular mass is so effeminate.

00:48:10.960 It's repulsive to people, to men and people that actually want to take action and solve

00:48:15.520 things.

00:48:16.300 It's, you know, it's like you, you mentioned the Nazis.

00:48:18.400 It's like we live in this Nazi planet and we have no way to get out from under it, but 0.97

00:48:22.500 we're still there.

00:48:23.600 We need to remember that we're still there.

00:48:25.600 We're out there.

00:48:26.660 We're still, we're still there.

00:48:27.780 We're still fighting.

00:48:28.380 Look, um, 90 seconds.

00:48:30.300 Frank, stand by.

00:48:30.960 We'll just come back to you.

00:48:31.800 We're moving up to the end of the show now.

00:48:34.400 Jenny, look, can you just give me like 90 seconds on this story from Matlock, um, in the UK

00:48:39.320 to do with the pride flag?

00:48:41.160 Um, because I think this is just an indication of what Christians can achieve in the public 0.99

00:48:46.340 square.

00:48:46.800 Just, just 90 seconds.

00:48:48.240 Um, and we'll end on this positive note.

00:48:51.040 Well, a small town, um, in Northern England, um, has a pride, had a pride flag hanging alongside

00:48:58.020 its UK flag and its County flag.

00:49:00.180 And the owner or, or, uh, someone in the Christian bookshop outside where the flag was hanging complained

00:49:06.640 to the council and the council took down the flag.

00:49:09.000 That's the short story.

00:49:10.580 Um, now I would be very curious to see what kind of, uh, blowback is going to befall this

00:49:17.220 little Christian bookshop, um, for the crime, the heretical crime of complaining about the 0.91

00:49:24.140 flag, the pride flag, which is akin to the new religion in the United Kingdom.

00:49:28.180 So we'll see how that plays out for them.

00:49:31.540 Um, but good news.

00:49:33.080 Uh, it's the mouse that roared, right?

00:49:34.780 It's David versus, um, Goliath thus far.

00:49:37.400 Um, yes.

00:49:38.620 As the young people say, there is a vibe shift.

00:49:43.000 There is certainly a vibe shift.

00:49:45.360 Okay.

00:49:45.800 Look, um, you mean, we mentioned earlier your podcast, uh, and the sub stack, um, um, analysis.

00:49:52.660 Just give us a, uh, a quick account of where people to can go to keep up with your analysis

00:49:58.300 on these things.

00:49:58.880 I'll say just again, Jenny, the reason I love having you on this show as someone who is not

00:50:03.800 formally religious, is formally, um, atheist.

00:50:08.140 You do pray the rosary every day, uh, and you're very proud and open of talking about the

00:50:13.460 spiritual fruits you get from that.

00:50:15.460 Uh, so where do people go to keep your input with your analysis on, on these, these developments?

00:50:21.860 Uh, the best place is Jenny E. Holland dot sub stack.

00:50:26.040 Um, and also on the notes app, which is the sub stack social media network platform.

00:50:31.960 Um, that's the best place to find me.

00:50:33.700 Jenny E. Holland dot sub stack.

00:50:35.560 And that's, um, and for the, um, and for the podcast, uh, it will be there as well.

00:50:43.100 And it should be up on, um, Apple as well.

00:50:46.940 Great.

00:50:47.480 Okay.

00:50:47.760 Jenny, thanks so much.

00:50:48.660 And, uh, God willing, we'll catch up with you again at 6 PM next Wednesday.

00:50:55.280 Frank Walker.

00:50:56.940 Um, you are the Catholic Matt Drudge. 0.51

00:51:00.140 Um, I very much, uh, strongly encourage people to check out your Canon 212 website.

00:51:08.280 Look, next, next week, week, you might just give a few words and say what Canon 212 actually

00:51:12.640 is, uh, what the code of Canon law is to put some context behind this.

00:51:16.400 Where do people go to catch up with that?

00:51:18.700 And, and can I ask you now, will you put the links that we hit today, the articles we

00:51:22.180 hit today on the show?

00:51:23.000 Would you mind, would you be so kind, um, to put them up on your website so that people

00:51:27.200 can go to that, uh, to, to, to read more, um, and, and be better informed?

00:51:32.720 And where do they go for your social media?

00:51:35.140 Stumbling block and all the rest of it?

00:51:37.260 Canon 212, C-A-N-O-N-2-1-2, bookmark it on X.

00:51:41.360 It's Canon 212 written all the way across.

00:51:43.580 And you can find the, uh, the daily update video on, um, Rumble and at Gloria TV and at

00:51:48.520 Canon 212.

00:51:50.860 Great.

00:51:51.480 Um, and stumbling block?

00:51:54.640 Because is a site here.

00:51:56.020 It's also a link that can, there's a couple places where you can see the daily update

00:51:59.020 video.

00:51:59.420 It's about 10 minutes, 10 or 15 minutes.

00:52:01.460 Just goes through the news articles of that day.

00:52:05.080 Perfect.

00:52:05.560 Take a look.

00:52:05.960 Perfect.

00:52:06.340 I'll say you need, you need to tap out folks that the Canon 212.com in full because the

00:52:11.460 site is currently being suppressed by Google.

00:52:14.280 Thanks for joining us today.

00:52:15.840 We're back at 6 PM next Wednesday.

00:52:18.060 My thanks to the great team in Denver and to producer Cameron Wallace.

00:52:22.040 God bless for now.

00:52:26.020 What if he had the brightest mind in the war room, delivering critical financial research

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Bannon's War Room - June 25, 2025

WarRoom Battleground EP 797： UK City Council Removes Pride Flag After Small Christian Bookshop Complains

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