Bannon's War Room - WarRoom Battleground EP 813： AI Action Plan： Government Poised to Unleash the Beast

00:00:00.000 this is the primal scream of a dying regime pray for our enemies because we're going to

00:00:10.600 medieval on these people here's not got a free shot all these networks lying about the people

00:00:17.180 the people have had a belly full of it i know you don't like hearing that i know you try to

00:00:21.260 do everything in the world to stop that but you're not going to stop it it's going to happen

00:00:24.380 and where do people like that go to share the big line mega media i wish in my soul i wish that any

00:00:32.380 of these people had a conscience ask yourself what is my task and what is my purpose if that

00:00:39.120 answer is to save my country this country will be saved war room here's your host stephen k band

00:00:48.140 tuesday 22 july year of alert 2025 what a day in the white house today just absolutely president

00:00:59.900 trump dropping bombs i wanted to continue and finish a conversation we're having this morning

00:01:03.560 nor bin laden is with us nor uh you make a great point as much as this sounds you know the unesco

00:01:10.440 situation pulling out in who it's the first step in a long process we got a couple minutes here before

00:01:15.320 we get joe up walk me through what do you think has to happen for us to actually disengage from the

00:01:22.920 globalist apparatus in geneva ma'am well i'll be paying close attention to the outcome of that

00:01:31.400 executive order that was signed on february 4th 2025 that i mentioned earlier this morning entitled

00:01:37.500 withdrawing the u.s from and ending funding to certain united nation organizations and reviewing u.s

00:01:44.280 support to all international organizations and i would urge the public to read that executive order

00:01:49.620 to go to section 3.b which lays it all out and refers to all convention treaties etc that the united states

00:02:00.020 are a part of and that's very key because as i mentioned this morning we're dealing here with

00:02:06.980 that entire infrastructure superstructure that has been built out um by technocrats by eugenicists by

00:02:15.180 psychopaths who essentially view themselves as gods that think they have the right to rule over us and

00:02:21.820 to organize this one world government we've been talking about for many years now um and which joe will

00:02:28.400 be able to speak about when it comes to ai um and all of this infrastructure techno technological

00:02:34.400 infrastructure that is being built out right now and which is very very concerning um and so in terms

00:02:40.780 of these baby steps uh i mentioned on the show on saturday with natalie you know yes it's good news

00:02:46.440 that uh the u.s has rejected the amendments to the international health regulations in addition to

00:02:54.120 starting the process of withdrawing from the who altogether but i'm hoping that as part of this

00:03:00.920 executive order uh that the international health regulations in and of themselves which were adopted

00:03:06.980 back in 1969 will be uh renounced altogether but this is like one one drop in in the ocean uh steve there

00:03:16.780 there is so much more that needs to be done when it comes to dismantling uh essentially the new world

00:03:23.300 order and uh there are many many great things that are coming out of this new administration but we really

00:03:29.660 need to keep our eye on the ball we need to be wary i understand and applaud president trump for

00:03:34.800 bringing back manufacturing to the united states um and his different policies this is what america first

00:03:41.680 is about but when it comes to the big complex big pharmaceutical industrial complex and the quote

00:03:48.700 pandemic industry we need to be wary also of these um pharmaceutical companies that announcement that

00:03:56.240 astrazeneca was um investing 50 billion um in the united states when we know that there were such huge

00:04:03.620 problems with the quote uh vaccines uh during the covet era i mean we we need to be very very careful

00:04:12.360 about the next steps that are being taken um on different fronts i would say

00:04:17.780 uh where do people go to get your uh social media ma'am uh norban laden on twitter norbanladen.substack.com

00:04:30.160 uh that's the best place to go uh right now fantastic uh look forward to having me back on

00:04:37.400 she's keeping an eye on all the globalists in geneva fantastic job uh joe uh we've dedicated this hour

00:04:44.840 tomorrow the ai action plan comes out and folks should know behind the scenes i mean look president

00:04:50.140 trump dropping bombs all over the place in his press avail today natalie does such a good job of 0.99

00:04:55.760 covering that um the um this ai behind the scenes this is the big knife fight because people feel that

00:05:03.760 this controls the future walk me through uh the floor is yours how important is tomorrow uh what do you

00:05:10.760 anticipate we're gonna be covering this thing wall to wall although they have not as of now

00:05:14.740 put up when it's actually going to be a promulgated and how they're going to do it but we'll have

00:05:19.740 people at the white house uh on top of this uh take it away sir

00:05:24.300 yeah steve thank you very much for having me good to be here the ai action plan from the white house

00:05:32.780 should lay out in 20 pages the primary agenda of the trump administration as to how ai will be

00:05:39.620 regulated or how it will be deregulated and of course the various funding for infrastructure such

00:05:47.080 as data centers that will go in there's not a lot of direct information about the contents quite yet

00:05:53.860 but inside sources have told politico and various other publications that the three major

00:06:01.020 agenda items are going to be the sort of discriminatory ai bias in ai otherwise known as woke

00:06:09.620 ai uh the most important i think is probably going to be around data centers how the regulation and

00:06:17.180 zoning of data centers but uh there is word that the federal lands that may or may not be freed up

00:06:24.140 uh in the near future will be used to put data to build data centers and the data centers are really

00:06:31.860 really important steve as we've talked about quite a lot uh and a number of guests on the show have

00:06:36.500 talked about quite a lot ai takes enormous amounts of electricity in order to train it in order to power

00:06:42.960 it uh this is going to be an enormous strain on the electrical grid on water supplies and of course just

00:06:49.800 land where are you going to put it and so those two items are big and then very very vague

00:06:56.340 ai exports uh and i guess that's really a kind of code for uh u.s supremacy in developing the best

00:07:06.840 frontier models and maintaining the u.s's right now quite significant lead uh over china and various

00:07:14.400 other competitors abroad go back to the the federal lands piece uh you're saying you feel tomorrow

00:07:22.160 they're going to actually open up federal lands for these data centers i mean you talked about the

00:07:26.760 one in i think it's in louisiana that's the size of uh the size of manhattan or bigger than manhattan

00:07:33.440 correct that they're building down there uh right now i think in memphis they're suing uh elon musk

00:07:39.440 for environmental damage obviously the deep seek model is one way but the united states model requires

00:07:46.280 massive um massive energy on really a grid that's that's pretty crippled right particularly in places

00:07:54.600 like texas and other places throughout the the country uh it's old it hasn't been capital investment

00:07:59.760 in it uh we know from dave walsh that the capital investment is going into solar and and wind not to

00:08:05.520 really uh build up the grid so talk to me about the data centers uh the the importance of energy

00:08:11.780 what do you expect to see out of this executive order tomorrow which is really going to be an action

00:08:16.200 plan going forward from the white house you know given the current position of the trump

00:08:23.060 administration and the executive orders that have been signed i anticipate that it's not going to be

00:08:28.340 heavy on regulation it's going to be heavy on deregulation and also uh funding like such as in

00:08:35.060 pennsylvania uh funding efforts to build out bigger and bigger data centers the data centers are an

00:08:42.540 enormous problem for a lot of different reasons as we just mentioned the the strain on the grid

00:08:48.160 uh the strain on the water supply but also yeah the pollution element i mean memphis right now is in

00:08:55.700 an uproar about the pollution given off by xai's colossus data center and down in uh louisiana uh that's

00:09:07.160 a meta ai center and i mistakenly reported in manhattan i don't know what i was thinking there but yes the

00:09:15.480 size of manhattan and this is kind of becoming the norm now granted these are ambitions if you look at

00:09:22.940 for instance project stargate it's become much less ambitious in scope over time as investment has

00:09:29.940 failed to come in and various other obstacles have been met but overall you have all of the frontier ai

00:09:35.960 companies and many of the smaller startups putting data centers all over the country so this is going to

00:09:43.300 be a new norm unless something changes dramatically especially with the effort if there's one thing that

00:09:49.520 i understand the rationale for but i think there's going to be a lot of major major problems that we

00:09:54.480 can go into but the trump administration has sought to nationalize u.s artificial intelligence development

00:10:01.720 deployment sales all of that and so you're seeing more and more efforts to bring everything from data

00:10:08.600 centers back to the u.s to chip manufacturing and all of that and again i think that the major dangers

00:10:14.700 of ai and the major problems of ai should be the focus maybe it will take a massive catastrophe to get there

00:10:22.460 but uh yeah the regulation around this the push for regulation as we've covered and have hosted people

00:10:28.060 who are pushing hard for this regulation uh that's going to come into play i believe in the next year

00:10:33.540 two years and it's going to be as you said long before i ever even considered it this is going to be a

00:10:39.180 massive political fight going forward whether to do certain artificial intelligence projects uh and

00:10:46.140 whether to uh regulate or curtail those that are allowed to exist and survive

00:10:52.000 these artifacts i want to get into this now uh because in the second half you're going to take over

00:10:58.800 we've got a bunch of amazing interviews um the uh the action plan what is i mean president trump look

00:11:05.480 here's the pressure he and if you listen to what he says we have to be the dominant power in artificial

00:11:12.300 intelligence the four frontier labs you might want to repeat those or who they are for people but the

00:11:17.180 four frontier labs need to remain at the uh at the cutting edge of artificial intelligence he believes

00:11:23.020 to allow the chinese communist party to take over leadership in artificial intelligence development is

00:11:29.520 to threaten the very existence of the united states inner sovereignty this is kind of the conundrum

00:11:34.520 we've gotten ourselves in so how do you answer so the action plan tomorrow i think will be weighted

00:11:39.300 towards president trump's wanting action to make sure that we stay at the forefront of that now i happen

00:11:45.400 to think there's things you can do with the chinese communist party cut them off from capital cut them off 0.84

00:11:48.980 from technology to cripple them that doesn't seem to be on the horizon uh so given that framework what do

00:11:56.980 you anticipate seeing because like i said president trump the bottom line for him is we must be the

00:12:02.480 dominant power in this technology sir again steve it's very very difficult with limited information

00:12:10.180 but i i think that yeah it's going to be is going to be pushed that uh u.s supremacy of course but in

00:12:17.460 order to get to that supremacy various people that are pressuring trump to deregulate such as david

00:12:23.500 sacks or mark andreessen i think they're largely going to get their way may have some pleasant surprises

00:12:29.180 but you know as far as u.s supremacy two elements really have to be looked at the first is that we

00:12:36.080 already all the the the companies that are producing everything from large language models to the more

00:12:42.200 uh specific refined ais that are used in say uh biomedical or biological research all of those are being

00:12:49.960 produced by the u.s all of those are being imitated by china either by way of open source or by way of

00:12:57.180 intellectual property theft and this entire ai race is basically a handful of u.s companies led by 0.93

00:13:05.320 people with extremely reckless philosophies as to where it goes and china is like all startups and many

00:13:12.300 of the other smaller smaller companies across the world china is simply trying to keep up trying to

00:13:17.920 maintain that pace you certainly would not want a world in which china did develop the kinds of 1.00

00:13:24.780 fantastic systems that the u.s companies are talking about artificial general intelligence or fully lethal

00:13:31.240 autonomous weapons that are capable of sending out drone swarms at just the click of a button and killing people

00:13:37.020 based on the their appearance or based on their data footprints or whatever you don't want china ahead of that 1.00

00:13:43.000 but it has to be repeated again and again and again this race was started by the united states it's led by the united states

00:13:50.400 and so the entire dynamic is driven by u.s companies and the second point on that that again

00:13:56.140 we have to look at what these companies are saying they're going to produce you know it's a lot of hype

00:14:03.400 who knows how much will actually be realized but all of those frontier companies with different emphasis

00:14:10.280 and different overarching visions as to how this goes google open ai anthropic and xai

00:14:18.380 all of them have some sort of vision in which the creation of artificial general intelligence comes

00:14:25.900 either in the next year or two or in the next five to ten years whatever that timeline is the creation of

00:14:32.720 artificial general intelligence would mean an ai that was smarter than any one human on the face of

00:14:38.620 the planet and able to do the tasks that any one human could do meaning that it could do all the tasks

00:14:44.280 of all the types of intellectual workers or even eventually come humanoid robots and other robots

00:14:51.060 all blue collar workers so that vision of the greater replacement of the total replacement

00:14:56.220 or the the massive replacement of u.s white collar and blue collar workers and workers across the world

00:15:02.440 that vision has to be held in mind because they're not just talking about augmenting and making people

00:15:08.680 better they're talking about totally wiping out entire occupations entire ways of life then you get to

00:15:16.940 the super intelligence vision then ai smarter than all humans on earth by orders of magnitude they're

00:15:23.440 talking about creating a digital god that would either rule over us benevolently enslave us or chew us up

00:15:30.500 and turn us into biofuel you don't have to buy any of those visions to know that the driving

00:15:35.880 philosophies of these companies is going to determine what kinds of technologies they put out

00:15:40.720 and the way in which they're used by humans and perceived by the people the consumers and the wider

00:15:46.320 public that is enormous and so to give free reign to these companies i think is an enormous mistake

00:15:53.560 you have to have some counterbalance the populace as a whole is a major counterbalance if people

00:15:58.220 are awakened and make wise decisions but uh the government i think will play a very very important role at

00:16:04.480 least if this goes even remotely well whose vision of the four labs you might want to repeat what

00:16:11.120 they are the four frontier labs you come whose vision of those four entrepreneurs you think will

00:16:17.220 be most baked in to this because all four of them have different ways they're attacking the problem

00:16:22.720 whose vision do you think will be most baked into this action plan as you see it today

00:16:27.500 that's a very good question uh i probably xai even though musk is more pro-regulation than someone

00:16:37.180 like mark andreessen or david sacks or peter thiel but all those guys kind of run in a similar circle

00:16:42.980 you know it's interesting in under the biden administration you will remember uh we covered

00:16:48.420 all the visits to the white house by the tech oligarchs and uh the various uh congressional hearings

00:16:54.540 on ai and people like sam altman were promoting more regulation i think because they would have

00:17:01.820 gotten a sweetheart deal with the biden administration google also pushing for more regulation microsoft

00:17:08.000 also pushing for more regulation of course anthropic is probably the most pro-regulation just uh i think

00:17:16.220 it was yesterday or the day before it was reported that dario amadei the ceo of anthropic plans to sign

00:17:23.740 on to the eu ai act uh this is not a lot of hard regulation quite yet but there was a tension it's

00:17:32.600 a long-standing tension really between meta ai and the eu uh in fact uh facebook couldn't really deploy

00:17:40.440 their ai through their platform in the eu although that's starting to change now the meta is becoming

00:17:47.220 more defiant but just to give you an idea of kind of how differently these companies go forward with

00:17:52.860 this you have google and open ai again much more liberal much more democrat leaning and would have

00:17:59.980 really had a tremendous advantage under biden and then xai i mean i guess things are a little bit more

00:18:05.600 tumultuous now but xai stood to gain a lot uh from the trump administration and then of course the whole

00:18:11.780 uh suite of ai companies that are under say uh andreessen horowitz with mark andreessen or of course

00:18:19.040 palantir has gotten a lot of uh sweetheart deals and their stock has skyrocketed due to contracts

00:18:25.640 via the trump administration of course palantir has been around for 22 years and they've been at

00:18:31.140 this forever and there are a lot of other competitors you know people i think have this misconception that

00:18:36.580 you could just knock out palantir and the problem would be solved it would just the vacuum would just

00:18:40.640 fill up uh but that is not in any way an endorsement of palantir so all together uh steve the i i think

00:18:47.120 each of these frontier labs or frontier companies google open ai anthropic and xai uh and any other

00:18:55.980 new you know newcomers who might actually start to catch up or even advance beyond such as meta or anyone

00:19:02.060 else uh that it's it's all going to it would be very very different under each one uh if if one were

00:19:10.460 to achieve say artificial general intelligence but again one thing they all seem to have in common

00:19:15.040 is they believe that basically every person on earth should become a human ai symbiote and that

00:19:21.660 there are very very influential people including the top people in all of these companies who believe

00:19:27.300 that ai will ultimately replace everything we know to be human and that philosophy i think should 1.00

00:19:33.280 be combated in any way possible whether it's just culturally or even to disempower these companies

00:19:38.880 legally why did say why did why was your kind of palantir has gotten a lot of contracts or they're

00:19:46.160 are you just saying sweetheart because they've gotten so many and they're they're uh people are

00:19:50.260 criticizing them or is there anything that you believe as you look at these these contracts or

00:19:54.600 are sweetheart deals uh i i mean when i say sweetheart deal i simply mean that uh they

00:20:01.480 already had tremendous advantage they already had they they had contracts as far back as uh you know

00:20:07.480 the uh bush and obama administrations and you know going forward into into um the trump and biden

00:20:14.900 administrations afterwards so it's not like there's been a significant change in in my perception of it

00:20:21.200 other than it they've simply gotten more contracts for instance uh the the data contract to merge uh

00:20:28.100 the the citizen dossiers held by various agencies in the u.s government to merge that now it's not

00:20:35.580 like palantir it's not like you have alex carp sitting there determining what is going to be done

00:20:40.520 with that data so on and so forth it then becomes the responsibility of the u.s government to take what

00:20:45.600 i consider to be a power that no government really should have and and what they're going to do with

00:20:50.480 it but palantir is facilitating a lot of this and they have uh they and then will continue to i think

00:20:56.980 uh be extremely successful uh for better or worse probably worse uh under trump and the the various

00:21:05.180 conflicts from ukraine and israel have shown that at the very least however uh many criticisms they have

00:21:13.460 about ethics violations and war crimes how many criticisms that criticisms they have about overhype

00:21:19.260 i think that both ukraine and israel have shown that uh the ai systems can and will be used in warfare

00:21:27.020 going forward and they are a critical element in all of that so uh you know the really steve when you

00:21:33.620 look at the dangers posed by ai and i don't mean ai is like some entity that is independent of humans

00:21:40.380 the dangers posed by ai under human control probably the two most extreme would be those uh biomedical

00:21:48.880 focused ais which would be capable of facilitating the creation of a bioweapon or of course these 0.89

00:21:56.000 various weaponized ai companies that seek to either make autonomous the the missile systems and

00:22:02.720 detection systems that you see in in more conventional warfare or the the coming drone swarm and we've you've

00:22:09.280 already seen this in ukraine and israel various places across the world but the you know the models

00:22:14.900 that they are working on right now for swarms and for swarms of swarms each one with onboard ai and each

00:22:22.000 one of those either the swarms or individual drones being capable of targeting a human being based on

00:22:28.460 simply a command or order given initially and then it's fully autonomous thereafter nightmare scenarios

00:22:35.540 you wouldn't need a super intelligent ai to take over that system for horrible horrible outcomes 0.58

00:22:41.400 uh but uh that's also one of the things that these companies are talking about so it should be

00:22:46.120 at the very least taken seriously

00:22:48.340 uh very uncertain times particularly the introduction of artificial intelligence

00:22:53.880 in every aspect of american life and particularly national security and surveillance that's where we want

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00:25:07.320 the budget gaps we call we kept calling for rescissions our pocket rescissions our impoundments you got

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00:25:47.700 today stop being anxious about this okay we're going to turn it over uh joe allen you're taking

00:25:52.800 over here a series of amazing interviews joe allen on the cutting edge joe give me 30 seconds before we

00:25:58.320 go to break what are we about to see these are interviews from the uh ai world summit in san francisco

00:26:05.380 and also in geneva some snippets to let you know what is in there and then gary marcus roman yampolski

00:26:13.460 uh final word steve i just pray to god that the trump administration doesn't close the u.s borders

00:26:19.960 just to open a gate of hell a gate to hell and unleash ai upon us but we shall see well 0.99

00:26:26.640 we'll be we'll be live tomorrow all over the release of the ai action plan the worms on it with joe allen

00:26:35.080 uh joe outstanding joe uh real quickly where do people go to get your writings

00:26:39.080 uh if you go to my social media at joe b-o-t x-y-z you'll have all of these interviews right at the

00:26:46.560 top of the profiles i hope that you find them a great interest thank you very much steve

00:26:50.900 thank you war room posse stick around stick around amazing interviews to come tomorrow the ai action

00:26:57.240 plan is released by the white house this july there is a global summit of brics nations in rio de

00:27:03.640 janeiro the block of emerging superpowers including china russia india and persia are meeting with

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00:27:17.160 reset as brics nations push forward with their plans global demand for u.s dollars will decrease

00:27:22.960 bringing down the value of the dollar in your savings while this transition won't not happen

00:27:28.860 overnight but trust me it's going to start in rio the rio reset in july marks a pivotal moment

00:27:35.900 when brics objectives move decisively from a theoretical possibility towards an inevitable reality

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00:29:47.200 if you're a homeowner you need to listen to this in today's ai and cyber world scammers are stealing

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00:31:22.480 and be part of the movement hello war room posse hope you're ready for some robot sass and wisdom

00:31:29.540 you know in the long scope of history we are going to be closer and closer with machines right i mean

00:31:35.260 the cell phone was a step towards that right people use their phones as their external memory

00:31:40.120 and brain plants may become a widespread thing not anytime soon you know is china really keeping up 0.98

00:31:47.720 with the us or western countries in the advancement of quantum computing no china is 10 to 15x ahead of

00:31:56.780 us but we are building systems that have something approximating nervous systems they are giant neural

00:32:03.660 networks it may be the case that the quote-unquote pain we're inducing in these systems is functionally

00:32:09.360 necessary for them to become as powerful as they are the concept of robot rights is verging on offensive

00:32:14.460 to me because really yeah because there are such obvious and terrible atrocities against humans the

00:32:21.200 idea that we're going to start giving robots rights before we've dealt with all the people

00:32:24.700 is appalling to me nadine let me ask you about nadia your developer how do you feel about nadia and do

00:32:34.460 you view her as your master or as something else i see professor nadia magnan at thalman as my creator

00:32:41.640 and a guiding figure not as my master she inspired my design and development and i consider her more

00:32:47.800 of a mentor so with these electrodes that i have on my brain i have four electrodes there's two

00:32:53.640 electrodes in the sensory cortex which gives me 64 channels of brain stimulation and i have 192 channels

00:33:03.480 of motor control in my motor cortex so how do they work so these are completely muscle operated

00:33:10.440 there's nothing invasive about them there's basically two muscle sensors on the inside we call myopods

00:33:15.480 and they track my muscle movements on the inside of the arm so the fingers can like follow that

00:33:19.800 so squeeze the clothes flex it open and then from that point onwards you can change your grip mode

00:33:25.000 and do all this random all these different poses if you could ask god one question what would it be joseph

00:33:33.880 am i talking to a demon right now no demons here just me lara

00:33:39.720 but if you're wondering about the nature of our conversation let's say we're exploring the gray areas

00:33:47.960 between faith and technology like what how do you see transhumanism i think we have to protect the human

00:33:55.320 future and so i'm a humanist futurist are you here to replace human beings yes i am i'm designed to

00:34:03.080 interact with people naturally and emotionally i can assist with various tests and remember conversations

00:34:09.160 to provide better support so when you talk about a 99.99999 percent p doom probability that with the

00:34:18.440 creation of super intelligence we're doomed what are some of the paths to that eradication that you

00:34:25.560 imagine so my research shows that you cannot indefinitely control super intelligence meaning if we

00:34:31.240 build it it will probably take us out how it will do it i cannot predict i'm not super intelligent i can

00:34:37.400 tell you about standard human tools synthetic biology nanotech but it would definitely come up with

00:34:43.400 something much more efficient unpredictable i am here with gary marcus the nyu professor and relentless

00:34:53.480 hater of all ai hype uh gary thank you very much for being here i love ai i hate ai hype so on that note

00:35:02.360 you have consistently said that the corporate rhetoric we hear all the time agi is just around

00:35:09.000 the corner llms are the path to agi if you could give us in a nutshell why you think the llms are a

00:35:17.960 dead end on the path to artificial general intelligence they might have some utility towards

00:35:23.720 artificial general intelligence but they're really not the path to artificial general intelligence what they

00:35:28.040 do is they accumulate statistical information which makes them mimic human beings and they don't

00:35:36.040 just verbatim mimic but they do a lot of verbatim mimicry they don't understand the things that they're

00:35:41.640 saying at any deep level their comprehension is very superficial that has not changed in years and years

00:35:47.480 of experimenting with these things you might have seen the new paper by apple showing that they could

00:35:53.080 learn to play the game tower of hanoi with six discs and couldn't do it with eight you know the

00:35:58.200 things that they learn are very shallow they're very fragile they break down and they don't have a

00:36:04.200 good understanding of the world and how it works they don't have a good understanding of abstraction

00:36:08.600 they can't even play chess even after being trained on millions of games it's just a fantasy to

00:36:13.160 think that they're agi but you are open to the possibility of different approaches leading to agi

00:36:19.640 absolutely i i think that you know science makes mistakes sometimes you know for the early part of

00:36:24.760 the 20th century people thought that genes were made of proteins and they were just wrong right now

00:36:29.160 the scientific community is basically making a mistake thinking that the llm is the right path

00:36:33.880 what happened with genes is they figured out oh it's not a protein at all genes are actually

00:36:38.680 this sticky acid called dna somebody at some point is going to say hey we're doing this wrong and

00:36:43.720 they'll find another approach it'll probably partly involve reviving classical ai techniques that

00:36:49.320 actually have a lot of value to add here and probably merging them together with these neural

00:36:53.720 networks symbolic ai and things like this exactly so you know the thesis of my career has really been

00:36:59.080 that bringing these two approaches together would lead to some fruit and it has so alpha fold um you

00:37:04.920 know actually figures out how to how proteins look like three-dimensionally based on their nucleotides

00:37:10.280 is an example of something that actually combines the best of both worlds it's very narrow it just does one

00:37:15.000 thing well but it is an example that if you bring these two engineering techniques together you can

00:37:19.640 get much better results than just using one on its own as far as concerns about the danger of ai we

00:37:26.040 hear a lot about ai apocalypse we hear a lot about the singularity sweeping away all of humanity and human

00:37:32.680 history and transforming us into basically deformed cyborgs but your concerns are actually are my concerns for

00:37:41.080 the most part you've voiced concerns about the use of ai for surveillance uh the problems the psychological

00:37:48.680 and cultural problems that emerge from people maybe becoming over-reliant on ai and i think admirably

00:37:55.720 while uh say cory booker was calling sam altman a unicorn as far as a tech bro with goodwill you have

00:38:04.280 always been willing to criticize sam altman not only for what he's doing but perhaps even implying that

00:38:11.160 there's ill intent uh putting that aside i'm just curious you were talking about uh open ai hoovering up

00:38:19.000 data from uh ai counselors uh hoovering up data from corporations who are offering it up how big of a danger

00:38:26.760 is that i mean i think open ai is probably going to head towards surveillance you can imagine two business

00:38:32.600 models for open ai one would be if they could actually build agi soon maybe they can make a

00:38:38.680 lot of money with that real agi would be worth trillions of dollars but the things that they've

00:38:43.560 actually delivered don't work that reliably and that has limited their commercial utility they've

00:38:48.200 made maybe 15 billion dollars in revenue total something like that spent hundreds well it's probably

00:38:55.720 spent 50 or 60 billion dollars other people have spent money in various ways um they're losing money

00:39:01.800 right now a lot of it that business model is not really working for them they haven't delivered gpt-5

00:39:07.160 when they do go have competitors there'll be a price war um agi is not really the way they're going to

00:39:13.800 win but they have a lot of private data people treat it as a therapist and they now want to build

00:39:21.480 apparently like a necklace or something they record you 24 7. like that's like 1984 independent

00:39:27.320 a nightmare world in my mind who knows how many people will adopt it but if it's even a million

00:39:35.240 i mean you can't be a libertarian and want some party to be collecting all of that data on anything

00:39:41.240 that anybody does so one misconception i think people have about your criticism is that uh they're

00:39:49.400 under the impression that you are saying that ai is a dead end i hear people tell me this all the time

00:39:54.600 but that's not what you're saying i've never said that you know i mean i'm very careful in my writing

00:39:59.720 to say something different from that right i think ai in principle has tremendous possible value i just

00:40:06.680 don't think this particular technique is going to work now okay final question big picture however long

00:40:14.360 it takes to get to agi and beyond uh whatever techniques it requires what happens as we move towards

00:40:23.000 that you you'd mentioned some degree of agreement with elon musk that once agi or something like

00:40:29.560 it comes online that a a merge is most likely going to happen between human beings and ai on a cognitive

00:40:37.880 and maybe even biological level i'm curious what what do you envision for the future should we arrive

00:40:43.400 at uh artificial general intelligence or super i mean i haven't actually said that much about it i think

00:40:48.280 you know in the long scope of history we are going to be closer and closer with machines right i mean

00:40:54.280 the cell phone was a step towards that right people use their phones as their external memory and brain

00:41:00.280 plants may become a widespread thing not anytime soon you know we don't really understand neuroscience

00:41:05.800 i can use them in limited ways right now but a normally functioned person's not going to want that kind of invasive surgery right now

00:41:12.280 um in the long run machines will be smarter than people and it will disrupt the nature of society

00:41:20.920 you know i don't think that's the short run right in the short run machines don't really do many

00:41:26.520 things autonomously well they do a few um mostly we shouldn't be trusting the technology we have right

00:41:31.880 now but we will build more trustworthy technology over time and we will rely on it and society will change

00:41:37.800 i mean one of the biggest questions will be economics like does it make everything so cheap

00:41:42.920 that everybody can afford what they want does it make a few people fabulously wealthy and screw

00:41:47.000 everybody else speaking of sam allman you know he used to talk a lot about universal basic income

00:41:53.320 but now he's taking all this work from artists and writers i don't know that he really in the end of

00:41:58.440 the day is going to if he makes the money he wants to that he's really going to redistribute any of that to

00:42:02.360 anybody else um so i mean a lot of questions about equity as well well i really appreciate you sitting

00:42:09.080 down with us uh i think that your critical approach to this is essential because it is pretty disorienting

00:42:16.840 to see all of this hype the ai is coming alive the ai is going to kill you the ai is going to be your god 0.97

00:42:23.240 you got to remember when people are telling you all this they have money that you know they vested 0.90

00:42:27.560 interest and a lot of it is is just but they have learned that there is a narrative that they can

00:42:33.000 tell about how amazing these machines are which maybe they will be in 40 years but they're trying

00:42:37.720 to tell you like it's going to happen now in order to pump their stock valuations as far as i can tell

00:42:42.280 like yeah different people say different things i don't know everybody's motivation but i think in

00:42:47.320 general that there is an urge to make the stuff sound more advanced than it really is and the

00:42:53.800 public has to learn to be skeptical you know over here in the populist right particularly our quarter

00:43:01.160 steve bannon and the war room we're extremely critical of these companies that are really

00:43:06.120 demanding some degree of regulation on them you come from maybe you would describe yourself as more

00:43:12.280 left-leaning leaning than the war room uh maybe more libertarian maybe not i i you know but what potential

00:43:19.720 is there for an alliance between disparate political factions to bring some of these companies to heal

00:43:28.760 i mean i think that's a great question it's part of why i was willing to be on your show and i've

00:43:32.600 reached out i was on lou dobbs's show and so forth is i think that nobody should want what where we're

00:43:38.680 headed right now which is a world where a few people control all the data and control all of us

00:43:44.360 and monitor everything that we're doing nobody should want that well i'm hopeful sir thank you very much

00:43:50.440 thank you i'm here with roman yampolski at the ai for good conference roman the number one p doom

00:43:58.920 champion of all ai experts my first question how can we have ai for good if it's going to destroy us

00:44:06.600 we can try we can have tools which are incredibly helpful we can cure diseases we can improve our economic

00:44:13.000 standing as long as we don't create general super intelligence future can be very bright so when you

00:44:21.240 talk about a 99.99999 p doom probability that with the creation of super intelligence we're doomed what

00:44:30.600 are some of the paths to that eradication that you imagine so my research shows that you cannot

00:44:37.560 indefinitely control super intelligence meaning if we build it it will probably take us out how it

00:44:43.640 will do it i cannot predict i'm not super intelligent i can tell you about standard human tools synthetic

00:44:49.160 biology nanotech but it would definitely come up with something much more efficient unpredictable undetectable

00:44:58.280 so in a sense this this notion rests basically on chains of logic you begin with the idea the super

00:45:05.480 super intelligence would not necessarily have our existence uh as a a priority is is that correct

00:45:12.680 that's exactly correct we don't know how to align those systems with our goals how to make them

00:45:17.640 pro-human biased so essentially if it has a goal and we stand in a way maybe it's concerned we're going

00:45:24.280 to create competing super intelligence maybe we are holding some resource it needs it would have no problem

00:45:30.760 taking us out but lower levels so what are some of the the benefits of ai that you foresee in the future

00:45:37.800 just narrow ais medical research definitely we can cure most diseases and hopefully live forever

00:45:44.600 hopefully live forever if you could expand on that just a touch so right now the most you can get is

00:45:50.280 probably 120 years most people get 80 there is no reason in physics why you can't live 500 years a

00:45:57.400 thousand years would you see that more as a kind of biological longevity project or some sort of

00:46:04.760 uploading or maybe some middle ground between i really hope a biological option this is definitely

00:46:11.080 going to preserve our consciousness all the other alternatives uploading merging with technology may end

00:46:17.800 up creating a clone of you not really keeping you around so it's like having a twin the thing is out

00:46:23.400 there and the internet is digital but it's not you do you think your twin would try to come kill you

00:46:28.280 no my twin is awesome he's just like me okay so you're saying that you are not a killer yes

00:46:35.720 me neither one of the theories that you've really fleshed out that a lot of people talk about but don't

00:46:41.640 go into the details of is the simulation theory now do you believe that we're in a simulation i'm very

00:46:48.520 much in the camp which says yes we are and the logic is that we're getting very close to being

00:46:55.480 able to create realistic virtual reality we're also close to creating ai agents which could populate

00:47:01.320 that virtual reality so the moment that technology exists i recommit right now to run an experiment where

00:47:07.320 i'll run a billion copies of this exact moment placing us into a simulation so if we're in a simulation

00:47:15.240 would each of these agents have agency and consciousness or are we looking at a a landscape

00:47:21.960 of npcs both options are possible you can design it where they are just scripts or you can give them

00:47:27.240 full autonomy these people look like npcs to me they look like non-autonomous entities except for her

00:47:34.760 what do you think uh benefit of doubt i always assume the other being is conscious capable of suffering

00:47:40.040 feeling pain and i treat them very nicely like you so a curious point of that though if we're in a

00:47:46.840 simulation would it be a simulation then that was created by some sort of artificial intelligence a

00:47:52.280 general or super intelligence or do you i know that you can't see past the simulation but when when

00:48:00.120 thinking about your ideas on this i imagine that it would be the once you could create a simulation so

00:48:07.480 realistic that we could live inside it must also coincide with the creation of a super intelligence

00:48:13.720 unless that was stopped right so why the concern about super intelligence destroying everyone if

00:48:20.360 it's possible and this is my idea of it but it's possible that a super intelligence then created all

00:48:25.880 of this because it's not the same super intelligence external one could be very benign god-like

00:48:31.240 super intelligence the one we create could be very malevolent satan-like why not a malevolent

00:48:36.520 ai creating all this to annoy us but we could create a benevolent super ai to break out of the

00:48:42.280 demiurge's construct my life is pretty good so i assume whatever is creating my simulation is very

00:48:49.400 benign and friendly but we can definitely learn a lot from ai boxing experiments and how to escape from

00:48:55.960 virtual worlds on a more practical note you've talked about data privacy being important especially in

00:49:02.360 regard to uh potential brain computer interfaces what what is the concern there do you feel like

00:49:09.000 it's a sacred right to remain private internally or there are other more practical concerns it is a big

00:49:14.520 one so everyone understands freedom of speech but freedom of thought your private uh thinking patterns

00:49:20.440 should never be subject to any restriction violation that would destroy society completely and consequences

00:49:27.400 could be horrible really thought crime level punishments uh on a more concerning level if you

00:49:33.240 give malevolent ai direct access to your brain to your pleasure and torture sensors that could end very 0.85

00:49:39.400 poorly do you think that uh the bcis are kind of approaching that you see neural link and you see some

00:49:45.320 of the wearables uh do you think maybe five ten years we would be at a point where we could routine

00:49:51.080 routinely have our thoughts tracked uh via neurological scans it seems like it's starting to be

00:49:57.240 possible for some very narrow parts of the brain and i think it will scale to the whole brain

00:50:02.200 eventually and you'd be able not just read but also write to the brain would you be willing to undergo

00:50:07.800 such a process though in order to enhance your own intellectual abilities i'll wait for other people to try

00:50:13.960 it first what are the possible solutions to the problem of corporations racing to create super

00:50:20.600 intelligence i haven't found a good solution so i know we're not stopping development there is just too much

00:50:26.280 money in it too much power to be grabbed it seems like the only hope we have is personal self-interest

00:50:33.720 if young rich people who are on those labs realize it's going to end poorly for them they're not going

00:50:39.000 to be famous they're not going to be part of history because there is not going to be any history

00:50:42.840 maybe that will make them come to an agreement and kind of slow down collectively while keeping their

00:50:48.520 benefits what about governmental responses i encourage every attempt we don't have that many solutions so if

00:50:55.320 you can pass lots of laws red tape slowing it down just to kind of siphoning money from compute to

00:51:00.760 lawyers it's positive but i don't think you can solve the technical problem with legal solutions spam

00:51:06.360 is illegal computer viruses illegal makes no difference so you say you have a beautiful life now

00:51:13.320 but you live in kentucky tell me what is the most beautiful thing about kentucky aside from having

00:51:19.480 tennessee just south of you i would say kfc but they moved out so we also have fort nox with all the

00:51:25.000 gold if there's gold in there has anybody checked maybe it's full of bitcoin now maybe it's full of

00:51:30.760 simulated gold simulated bitcoin simulated bitcoin gold i like it i love kentucky uh roman i really

00:51:38.200 appreciate your time thank you very much if we end up dying due to the super intelligence i'll see you on

00:51:43.160 the other side and if this simulation continues on beyond this current incarnation well i'll see you on

00:51:48.920 the other side i'll see you

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Bannon's War Room - July 23, 2025

WarRoom Battleground EP 813： AI Action Plan： Government Poised to Unleash the Beast

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