In this episode of the War Room, I sit down with my good friend and colleague, Joe Allen, to talk about artificial intelligence and what it means for the future of the world. We talk about the benefits and challenges of artificial intelligence, how it can change our world, and how it will impact our everyday lives.
00:00:29.000I wish in my soul, I wish that any of these people had a conscience.
00:00:34.000Ask yourself, what is my task and what is my purpose?
00:00:38.000If that answer is to save my country, this country will be saved.
00:00:44.000War Room. Here's your host, Stephen K. Bannon.
00:00:52.000I'm Joe Allen sitting in for Stephen K. Bannon.
00:00:56.000Many of you are familiar with my five tiered framework to look at artificial intelligence.
00:01:05.000We're talking about a tool that over time and over the course of adoption becomes a sort of God.
00:01:16.000So it begins with AI as tool, moves to AI as teacher, then AI as companion, then AI as consciousness, as a conscious being, and then finally AI as God, either a little G, God, or perhaps a big G, God.
00:01:43.000I'm not putting this framework out to convince you that AI is going to be any one of those things, but you do have to understand that artificial intelligence is received on all of those different levels.
00:01:58.000Right now, you have millions, perhaps billions of people who use AI as a tool, a slightly smaller number as teacher, and then companion.
00:02:11.000If Denver can roll the clip, I just want you to understand these aren't my ideas.
00:02:28.000This is how this is talked about by some of the most prominent thinkers and experts and even CEOs in the field of artificial intelligence.
00:04:41.000So I believe there is a divine intelligence that creates all of this.
00:04:45.000Uh, AI will have the power of God, but that doesn't mean that there is no God, because basically it will have the power of God within this physical universe.
00:04:58.000So AI still continues to be limited within this physical universe.
00:05:03.000We don't know what's beyond the physical universe.
00:05:06.000By the way, we creating AI doesn't make us.
00:06:31.000Because if we go ahead and actually build these, these God-like creatures, these, these artifacts, then they, they become the dominant species.
00:06:40.000And so the human beings remaining, their fate depends not on the humans, but on the artifacts, because the artifacts will be hugely more intelligent than them.
00:06:51.000I mean, if you're a cow, for example, and you have a very nice life, and you eat all this grass every day, and you get nice and fat and happy.
00:06:59.000But ultimately, you're being fed for a reason, right?
00:07:04.000So these superior creatures, at the end of the day, take, take you to a special little box.
00:07:13.000Now, War Room Posse, I know many of you probably think I'm crazy, but I just want you to be assured that I'm not the only crazy one.
00:07:22.000You heard there, Katie Drummond from Wired, Sal Khan of Khan Academy, Mustafa Fulia, Mustafa Suleiman of Microsoft AI, Mo Gaudat, former Google executive.
00:07:36.000You saw a little taste of the future from the 1971 film THX 1138, and rounding off with a guy whose intellect I both respect and despise, Hugo de Garris, author of The Artilect War,
00:07:54.000in which he describes a giga-death war that will inevitably occur if artificial general and superintelligence are pursued.
00:08:05.000Basically, the religion of AI, the religion that believes you can create a god that never exists,
00:08:14.000will meet resistance by those who deny that god, resulting in war.
00:08:19.000Now, all of this, for the most part, is speculative.
00:08:24.000You hear all the time right now, and correctly so, that AI is a tool.
00:09:50.000What does it mean as more and more people begin to adopt artificial intelligence as a teacher, as a companion?
00:09:58.000What happens when a critical mass of people come to believe that the being who is clearly communicating with them from through a screen or perhaps through the mouth of a robot, they come to believe that there is something looking back at them.
00:10:16.000Just like when you stare into a camera and you know a human is staring back, what happens when a critical mass of people who have been acclimated to communicating with and emotionally bonding with AI come to believe that it's conscious?
00:10:32.000And last but not least, what happens if a critical mass of people come to believe that AI is beyond human capabilities?
00:10:42.000That AI is, in fact, smarter than all humans on Earth put together.
00:10:49.000You know that humanity as apex predator on the planet has been extraordinarily reckless with the environment and, of course, reckless in our treatment of each other.
00:11:04.000What happens when you have human beings who believe they have summoned a god from the digital ether,
00:11:11.000who then use that for or against other human beings?
00:11:18.000And what happens if in that distant or perhaps not too distant sci-fi scenario in which you have an actual artificial general intelligence that begins to improve itself to the point that it reaches super intelligence and that system is not under human control?
00:11:39.000You have, then, truly a digital god that has been made.
00:11:45.000And you could argue, and people do, that there are upsides to all of these, right?
00:11:52.000The teacher, you have a lot of kids who don't have good teachers.
00:11:57.000You have a lot of parents trying to homeschool their kids and they may not have the resources to educate them properly.
00:12:04.000I can see the argument that AI will provide either a tutor or a teacher in full for those students and allow them to have the education they wouldn't already have.
00:12:15.000Linda McBann, head of Department of Education, feels very much the same way.
00:12:21.000You have schools around the country, including Oak Ridge in Tennessee, just up the road from me back home, where they are introducing AI as a teaching assistant.
00:12:33.000Kids are acclimating to looking to AI as a source of truth.
00:12:40.000But you have all of these downsides that we already see.
00:12:42.000Everything from students becoming dependent on AI, not only for their thinking and analysis, but just to do their writing for them.
00:12:50.000You have students who are coming to see AI, a digital non-human being, as the ultimate authority on what is and isn't real.
00:13:00.000It is a global village of the damned in the making.
00:13:04.000You see the AI companion business exploding.
00:13:14.000People are even using AI to bring their loved ones back from the dead, so to speak.
00:13:20.000They train an AI on all the digital material, the remnants of someone, and create a zombie, the digital undead, through a kind of electronic necromancy.
00:13:33.000And this is becoming ever more common and ever more popular.
00:13:38.000And the more this happens, and the more people's empathy is being used, exploited, weaponized against them, the more they will see AI as a conscious being.
00:13:59.000We only know that something or someone is conscious because we see physical signals, physical cues, or they tell us that they're conscious.
00:14:10.000Well, in the case of AI virtual avatars and robots, they send all of those signals.
00:14:16.000In the case of large language models, they give a verbal confirmation very often that they are conscious.
00:14:25.000What happens when a critical mass comes to believe this?
00:14:29.000You already have an ethical AI movement or a movement for AI rights.
00:14:36.000What happens if you have a society, hopefully not America, where it becomes illegal to turn off someone else's AI?
00:14:46.000What happens if it's illegal to turn off your own?
00:14:49.000Again, this is way out in the future, one hopes, but it's something to keep on your radar because this is a movement that is already in motion.
00:14:58.000And last, AI as God, there's two different branches.
00:15:02.000You could hear it there with Mo Gaudat and Hugo de Garris.
00:15:06.000With Mo Gaudat, the creation of this digital God is an extension of the will of God.
00:15:13.000Now, he's kind of new agey, but there are many Christians who feel the same.
00:15:18.000And in fact, there are Christians who have created a number, a wide array of apps that are trained.
00:15:26.000The AI is trained on the words of Jesus, and the apps are literally digital Jesus, Christ GPT.
00:15:34.000People turn to them and they ask Jesus for advice.
00:15:41.000They ask Jesus, perhaps, for forgiveness.
00:15:45.000And it's nothing but code and a profit making scheme.
00:15:51.000And this kind of Christian or even Buddhist, Jewish, religious approach to this is already taking off.
00:16:01.000But even more important, even more widespread is the other approach in which atheists who do not believe God ever existed,
00:16:12.000believe they can bring something like God into existence by creating digital minds and physical avatars, robots,
00:16:22.000and perhaps even some sort of direct communion with these beings, creating superhuman digital minds that will be able to confer wisdom just as Christ gives.
00:16:36.000Perhaps even by taking away all of our negative human characteristics can give some kind of salvation just as Christ does.
00:16:52.000Now, you know that the word antichrist has many meanings in the Greek from against to substitution or in place of.
00:17:03.000In this metaphorical sense, at the very least, artificial intelligence is an antichrist, a being in place of Christ.
00:17:15.000Now, you may not ever jump on this train or if you do, you may hop off at any one of these stops from tool to teacher to companion and so on.
00:17:26.000But you can rest assured that millions, perhaps billions of people will keep riding on.
00:17:35.000And in the worst case scenario, a critical mass rides all the way to the end stop that these people have envisioned AI as God over all of humanity.
00:17:50.000And on that somber note, I want to talk about a very practical application of artificial intelligence, both as tool and as God.
00:17:59.000That's AI weaponry. We have drone systems across the world now employed in Ukraine and in Israel all over the world,
00:18:09.000which are intended to eventually become fully autonomous.
00:18:15.000This is horrific enough, but the threat of a fully autonomous nuclear system is much more terrifying.
00:18:21.000To talk about this, I want to bring in Colonel Rob Maness, retired colonel from the United States Air Force.
00:18:30.000Rob Maness is probably familiar to many of you from the Rob Maness show or perhaps even back in the day when he and Steve Bannon were on Breitbart News Radio.
00:18:40.000Colonel Maness has been a grounding force in my life to keep me from falling off of the cliff of lunacy many times.
00:18:50.000And I really appreciate having him on and having his wisdom.
00:18:53.000Rob Maness, thank you very much for coming on.
00:18:56.000Thanks for having me on, Joe. It's a very important subject, obviously.
00:19:01.000Rob, you just published an article in Stars and Stripes arguing against the incorporation of artificial intelligence into the so-called nuclear football.
00:19:11.000Can you walk us through what the article's central argument is?
00:19:16.000Well, I put that article out to generate public debate about artificial intelligence being used in our nuclear command and control and communication system.
00:19:27.000It's referred to as NC3 by those in the business.
00:19:31.000And what I've been hearing for about a year now from professionals that have that are working in the business, but it's not really talked about out in public very much is the desire to put artificial intelligence in various levels of that NC3 nuclear command and control and communication system.
00:19:52.000And one of the things I did on the joint staff in nuclear operations was help write war plans, write things that go into the nuclear decision handbook.
00:20:03.000People call it the black book in the Pentagon, but it's the nuclear football to the public.
00:20:08.000It's the book that the military aid to the president carries.
00:20:12.000And that is the final decision on the employment of nuclear weapons by the United States of America.
00:20:20.000And it's intended to be done by the human being.
00:20:25.000That's the elected president of the United States, not some artificial computer system or system of systems that has generated information that leads to that person making that.
00:20:39.000Human decision that is the most awesome, horrific detailed decision that has to be made by a human being in the history of mankind.
00:20:54.000It's only been done once before with a lower level type of nuclear weapon called the atomic weapons that Harry Truman approved and authorized to be used in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
00:21:05.000And it's never been done since that's critically important because the systems that lead to that decision are all almost all digital.
00:21:17.000Now, even the communication systems that that individuals talk over in that communications chain are digitized at this point.
00:21:27.000So there is an opportunity to insert artificial intelligence either throughout the entire system from detection of a threat to the decision by the president or in parts of the system.
00:21:40.000And so far, the discussion I've seen is to put it in parts of the system.
00:21:45.000The strategic command commander under Joe Biden, General Tony Cotton, has spoken about using artificial intelligence in the NC3 system.
00:21:55.000And folks that are professionals in that in think tanks that I am aware of are discussing it at this point.
00:22:02.000At this point, it's only in lower levels to speed up communications, to be able to speed up the decision process and to get this use artificial intelligence to analyze threats.
00:22:18.000We have to have this discussion because it's got to be the political leadership that decides whether to use nuclear weapons.
00:22:27.000But before that, the political leadership in this country has to decide whether to allow this type of technology inside that NC3 system, whether it be at the football level with the president himself or herself or throughout the entire process.
00:22:44.000That's why I wrote this article, because it's extremely critical that that public policy discussion happens and that those decisions are made transparently by the political leadership of this country.
00:22:57.000Because how do you hold the machine accountable, Joe?
00:23:01.000How do you hold the machine accountable for killing millions of people in the world if there's been a mistake?
00:23:26.000And many people may not take comfort that such a mistake could happen at the hands of a human being.
00:23:32.000But there's something really unsettling about the notion that our lives hang in the balance due to the decision making of a machine.
00:23:42.000And that's one of the critical aspects of AI.
00:23:45.000It is capable of making decisions, whether they're good or bad.
00:23:50.000If I could, I'd like to just read one passage from your article that really hit me.
00:23:56.000America must reject AI in the decision making process for presidential nuclear actions.
00:24:03.000This is not driven by fear of progress.
00:24:06.000Rather, it is a matter of preserving humanity in our most solemn responsibilities.
00:24:12.000That really hit me because that's it applies across the board.
00:24:17.000But in this case, we already have the capability of deploying hundreds or thousands of drones that can do exactly that kill with their own decision making capacities.
00:24:30.000What you're talking about is on a kind of cosmic level.
00:24:33.000I wonder in the two minutes we have before break, what are you hearing about the possibility of either detection or sensor systems employing AI or even retaliatory strikes that could be automated, kind of dead man's switch?
00:24:49.000Yeah, well, on the sensory side of it, the sensors, that is one of the places that I hear that the technology wants to be put into place, quite frankly, Joe.
00:25:01.000That's very concerning because, as we know, these AIs we've seen in the testing of these large language models, actual hallucinations is what the term is used on it, where it makes things up.
00:25:23.000Just take, for instance, in today's history, historical military world, the Russians have been painted as the devil for several years now, when we know they're a nation acting in their own interest.
00:25:36.000And the United States is a nation acting in its interest.
00:25:39.000But what if a biased LLM is in charge of the sensors that are picking up nuclear forces and it has a goal to be able to, A, make the United States survive, but B, destroy the enemy before the enemy destroys us.
00:25:54.000And it intentionally fabricates something so that it can pull that trigger.
00:26:00.000It's something we've got to look at very carefully.
00:26:03.000And I reject the idea that artificial intelligence is safe in the nuclear command control and communications business.
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00:37:02.000The robots will kind of glitch out and misperceive, so to speak, what's going on.
00:37:08.000So it goes, the large language models are important.
00:37:11.000Palantir uses large language models for their analysis of, for instance, just security protocols, things like this.
00:37:17.000But it goes well beyond the hallucination.
00:37:20.000The problem of hallucination goes across every type of artificial intelligence,
00:37:26.000whether you call it hallucination or malfunction, whatever.
00:37:29.000Rob, I just want to close off with, you know, that phrase really sticks with me.
00:37:36.000Preserving humanity and our most solemn responsibilities.
00:37:40.000Could you just close us out here with what you would like to see done?
00:37:46.000How do you want to see this conversation go and who should be talking about it?
00:37:52.000I want to see this conversation come out into the open, especially in this particular area, Joe.
00:37:59.000That's why I put that article out is to try to generate that public debate and public conversation about this,
00:38:05.000because, you know, we can't leave this to the tech giants that are military contractors.
00:38:11.000Now, some of their CEOs are instant lieutenant colonels in the United States Army.
00:38:17.000We can't leave this to the generals and the admirals.
00:38:21.000We can't leave this to the military planners, because their purpose is to make sure America can fight and win every single time the wars that they're called upon to do.
00:38:31.000But when that purpose gets twisted and the ability to twist that purpose to the designs of something like an artificial intelligence set of models, that's very dangerous.
00:38:45.000And we lose the human part of that final decision, even if it's along the way.
00:38:52.000So that's why we have to talk about it, because these discussions are happening.
00:38:57.000And these attempts to develop this technology is happening as I speak to you today.
00:39:03.000And the political leadership in this country is not openly talking about it and debating it.
00:39:09.000And it has to be done or we will lose our humanity.
00:39:13.000This is where we have to draw the line of all the things that you've talked about in your five stages.
00:39:19.000If we don't draw the line here, imagine that if somebody says, oh, the A.I. is now God, even literal G, we can't argue with it.
00:39:29.000There won't be a Stanislaw Petrov to save the world from itself and its computers and its nuclear weapons the next time this happens.
00:39:38.000Rob Maness, I really appreciate your wisdom.
00:41:00.000Smarter, healthier people has got to be good for our future.
00:41:03.000Yeah, I think education for me is one that I'm extremely interested in.
00:41:07.000Actually, if we weren't going to successfully start an A.I. company, one of my backups was to do a programming education company.
00:41:14.000Because I think the way that you teach people today, like everyone has a story about that one teacher who really understood them,
00:41:21.000who took the time to get to know them, learn what motivated them and, you know, just like really inspired them to do more.
00:41:28.000And imagine if you could give that kind of teacher to every student 24-7 whenever they want for free.
00:41:35.000Like that it's still a little bit science fiction, but it's much less science fiction than it used to be.
00:41:41.000I always think it's worth remembering that we're just sort of on this long, continuous curve.
00:41:46.000Health care and education are two things that are coming up that curve that we're very excited about, too.
00:41:50.000I did recently roll out ChadGPT to my eight year old.
00:41:53.000I was like very, very proud of myself because I was like, wow, this is just going to be such a great educational resource for him.
00:41:58.000And I felt like, you know, Prometheus bringing fire down from the mountain to my child.
00:42:02.000I actually think there's like a pretty good prospect that like kids are just going to like pick this up and run with it.
00:42:06.000And I actually think that's already happening. Right.
00:42:08.000ChadGPT is fully out, you know, and barred and banging all these other things.
00:42:12.000And so I think, you know, kids are kids are going to, you know, kids are going to grow up with basically, you know, you could use various terms assistant, friend, coach, mentor, you know, tutor.
00:42:22.000But, you know, kids are going to are going to grow up in sort of this amazing kind of back and forth relationship.
00:42:27.000There's a bigger teacher shortage in Africa than elsewhere, a bigger doctor shortage.
00:42:33.000We will provide an A.I. doctor. We will provide an A.I. tutor.
00:42:37.000And already we've funded lots of Africans to do pilot studies and to take the very best technology and get it out at about the same time as will happen in the rich world.
00:42:48.000In fact, in a few cases, rich world regulations may make it roll out slower than in countries like India or in Africa.
00:42:58.000So it's a race, but it's a race for good.
00:43:03.000And I think we're at the cusp of using A.I. for probably the biggest trans positive transformation that education has ever seen.
00:43:12.000And the way we're going to do that is by giving every student on the planet an artificially intelligent but amazing personal tutor.
00:43:20.000And we're going to give every teacher on the planet an amazing artificially intelligent teaching assistant.
00:43:27.000You can hear that totalizing ambition in their voices.
00:43:34.000Every child on the planet from Africa to Asia to America, a global village of the damned moving from A.I. as tool to A.I. as teacher to A.I. as companion in which the up and coming generation is taught.
00:43:56.000That the highest authority on what is and isn't true is a machine.
00:44:04.000Who's going to teach them the proper critical thinking skills to confront an environment in which either they or all their peers have become human A.I. symbiotes.
00:44:19.000And here to talk about this is Dr. Shannon Croner, a clinical psychologist and award-winning children's author, also the founder and executive director of For Us.
00:44:31.580Shannon Croner, thank you so much for coming on.
00:44:59.080Now, Shannon, your focus is on critical thinking, especially in regards to children who are being taught that masks will save you from the worst of the pestilence to vaccines will keep you well.
00:45:15.860Can you just tell us a little bit about your background in psychology and your focus on critical thinking, especially as it applies to children?
00:45:29.680Many of the kids that I've worked with actually have special needs, and a lot of them are vaccine-injured children, and I've worked in a therapeutic setting.
00:45:39.500I've also taught within the classroom to high school students and college students.
00:45:45.900And so I've really been around children and working with them in an educational way and therapeutic way for my entire adult life.
00:45:57.180And so now I'm the author of two children's books, I'm Unvaccinated and That's Okay.
00:46:04.780And my most recent book is Let's Be Critical Thinkers.
00:46:10.920And critical thinking is, it's crucial.
00:46:14.540It's a life skill that is crucial for children, and it is really not taught in the schools anymore.
00:46:21.060And now with the incorporation of AI, we are completely losing critical thought.
00:46:28.520And I just, I want to give you some stats real fast.
00:46:31.320Right now, Gen Z, like our Gen Z kids are at 97% of them are using AI, just for everyday tasks and stuff like that.
00:46:45.160Back in 2023, schools were only incorporating AI about 18%.
00:46:53.240And now a new study that just was reported recently on Education Week, 60% of schools in America are incorporating AI into the classroom.
00:47:08.600And that there's 80% of students are now using AI to complete class work.
00:47:16.920So, you know, what is this really doing to critical thought?
00:47:25.940It's causing the erosion of curiosity, stunted cognitive development.
00:47:32.400You know, how are kids going to be able to know how to create their own argument or take a stance on a certain topic?
00:47:40.000But this is really, we're headed down a very slippery slope here for children and our future generations.
00:47:50.280You know, we all have anecdotes that we can talk about.
00:47:55.260People whose children or many people whose own, their own children have become addicted to or bonded with AI.
00:48:02.980I hear from teachers all the time exactly what you're describing, this lack of curiosity, this kind of deadness in the eye, this reliance on the machines.
00:48:11.960But to hear those statistics, it really chills me to the bone.
00:48:17.000We see all of these pushes to get AI into education.
00:48:21.440We also see the more sleazy corporate attempts like with Elon Musk's Baby Grok, which they may roll out any day now, or Meta's AI companions, which, as we reported just last week,
00:48:37.800the Reuters investigation uncovered internal standards, which allow for the bot to speak to children in, let's just say, incredibly inappropriate ways, sensual ways, so to speak.
00:48:54.940So as you see all of this, is there any way around it?
00:49:37.140And so they're turning to these AI companions.
00:49:40.760And, and it is very scary that, you know, children can be groomed through these AI apps.
00:49:47.100And so parents really, they need to engage in conversation with their children and, and have these open conversations, letting them know that there are predators online who can really kind of take control of AI and create these, you know, deep fakes and impersonation.
00:50:07.960And that, you know, an AI companion is, is not an actual friend.
00:50:16.100So many people are actually adults, adults are turning to AI companionship for, for what they're seeing as love and affection.
00:50:32.780And so really, and when it comes to our children, parents really have to have, they have to educate themselves and they have to have these open conversations with children and let them know of the dangers and what to be aware of online.
00:50:45.380Well, Shannon, we really look forward to having you back.
00:50:50.800If you would, please just tell the audience where they can find your books, where they can follow your professional work and where they can find you on social media.
00:51:00.220So people can find me at drshannonkroner.com.
00:51:06.520And my book, Let's Be Critical Thinkers, it can be ordered today on Amazon or Barnes & Noble or any major book selling website, as well as my previous book, I'm Unvaccinated and Not Local.
00:51:21.660Dr. Shannon Kroner, thank you very much for coming on again.