In this Friday Night Special, we'll be talking to Joachim Powell, a German politician who has been banned from running for election because he likes Wagner and Lord of the Rings. We'll also hear from Natalie Sonnen, the Executive Director of the film, "Bread Not Stones," and Brian Williams, Founder of the Charlotte Latin Mass Community, and a consultant for the film.
00:09:43.000I thought, and I'm not the first person to elbow myself to the front of the line here and start quoting Second Vatican Council.
00:09:52.000But I sort of remember that the Second Vatican Council did entrust the laity to some degree with a role here, a shared role in the governance of the church.
00:10:05.000And I sort of remember Pope Francis of unhappy memory going on and on and on and on and on and on about anti-clericalism.
00:10:12.000And yet it seems to me that the bishop here in Charlotte has just dismissed totally the concerns of the faithful.
00:10:20.000And the film shows very beautifully the fruits that the old liturgy is having in the lives of ordinary day to day Catholics.
00:10:28.000I'll give you the floor right now to speak to Natalie and Brian and ask them a question.
00:10:35.000But before you do that, just can you give me a response to that?
00:10:39.000Where is, I mean, these guys are the great proponents of the Second Vatican Council.
00:10:44.000Where is the role of the laity and the consultation with the laity in this decision?
00:10:49.000There is no consultation with the laity.
00:10:52.000This is supposedly the synodal church, the synodal church, which is the church of listening and dialoguing with the laity,
00:10:59.000giving more power in the hands of the lady, except when it comes to the magnificent, beautiful Latin mass that is thriving, as we all know, around the world.
00:11:10.000And yet the bishops want to suppress this mass.
00:11:14.000And what this documentary shows are two things, the emotional, spiritual toll that it's taking on the families.
00:11:23.000And secondly, the beauty of the Latin mass and this persecution and make no mistake about it.
00:11:30.000It is persecution by the bishops, by the Vatican of a thriving, thriving, growing liturgy that is not only attracting families, but young people as well.
00:11:43.000People who have never been interested in the Catholic Church are coming to this mass.
00:11:48.000What in God's name would any bishop who is supposed to be a shepherd of the church would do to suppress it and banish it into the boonies, which is what they're doing.
00:12:02.000Not only here in Charlotte, but also in Detroit and France and around the world.
00:12:07.000And what is very interesting to me is that I'm thrilled that the world can now see the face of the people and families that are being persecuted, not only by the bishops, but also by the Biden FBI.
00:12:24.000You know, these were the people that were supposedly the radical traditionalists, right, the extremists.
00:12:31.000You will see the most loving, dedicated, faithful, not only Catholics, but citizens who love their country and love their families.
00:12:40.000And so it is absolutely essential that as many people see this, we need to rise up as a result of destroying something beautiful for the benefit of, I think, the intersection of the deep state and the deep church coming together to destroy what is magnificent in this church.
00:14:02.000Um, so we've had, uh, great coverage and, and the, the comments coming in.
00:14:08.000If you look in the comments on, on the YouTube, uh, page where the film can be seen on our Regina Magazine YouTube page, um, the comments are very positive, affirmative.
00:14:19.000Um, in, in, in some sense, this is a good news story in the fact that it is bringing together people all over the world, um, in a common, um, effort, a common effort to really try to get through to the hierarchy.
00:14:36.000And hopefully Pope Leo is going to see this, you know, ultimately I I'd like him to see it.
00:14:41.000Um, uh, I'd like our Holy Father to really take a look at this.
00:16:38.000If, and he, you know, not just the Bishop of Charlotte, right, it is fundamentally the top of the apex, Pope Leo himself.
00:16:46.000They are going to have to account for their actions before Jesus Christ as the supreme judge on the last day.
00:16:54.000The very title of this film, Bread Not Stones, is quoted by that magnificent lady in the film that, you know, if you're, you know, it's from the quotation, obviously, from the gospel from our Lord.
00:17:07.000If your son asks his father for bread, the father's not going to give him stones.
00:17:14.000Yet our bishops and the Holy Father himself, they take that title father because they're supposed to represent something somewhat of the fatherhood there.
00:17:22.000Frank, what's your reaction to this? And how hopeful are you that Pope Leo is going to intervene?
00:17:30.000Well, one of the children in this movie also says, does the bishop hate us?
00:17:36.000This, this happened to the entire world, you know, 50, 60 years ago.
00:17:42.000And I don't think it was really chronicled quite well.
00:17:44.000What they, what they, what this movie here shows is something very historic.
00:17:49.000It shows the, the really the contempt and the, it's kind of a coup what's happened in the church for the hierarchy and everybody else.
00:18:00.000And it's just, it's just good to have a document.
00:18:04.000It's really not about the, the Latin mass to me, it is, but what it's about is the people and their souls.
00:18:12.000All of the people that you've chosen here, they, you know, I, I, on Sundays, I go to a community, a Latin mass community that has been there forever.
00:18:21.000There's so much that they have to learn and to grow.
00:18:24.000But these people here, they're telling about how they came into it, how it saved them from divorce, how they were looking for something that was family.
00:18:31.000They didn't want to go to a grandmother church and all of their children, how much they care about their children.
00:18:36.000I don't, I don't see, I think that even if you don't get, because right now Leo is, is the Leo church is, is hurting the mass in India by the way he makes bishops.
00:18:49.000He may say a lot of things, but what the bishops do is what really matters.
00:19:29.000The people that are touched and they're, and, and they're learning that just like today is a feast of saying beheading a St. John the Baptist.
00:19:36.000They're learning what, when you actually are in touch with the true faith.
00:19:40.000And with, and with the true mass, there's a lot of hate out there.
00:19:46.000We have a, I went to a Novus Ordo mass today and, and my, my, the priests at the Novus Ordo mass gave a great sermon on that.
00:19:52.000So many priests are victims of, of what they've done to the church.
00:19:57.000There's so many of us that are victimized by this hierarchy and the people that they really care about.
00:20:03.000Frank, I'm going to ask you, as, as I always do, if you wouldn't mind, please do put out on Canon 212 the link for the film.
00:20:12.000So everyone watching the, and we'll give all the social media in just a few weeks if you want to get your pens and papers out, but, but please do put that on Canon 212.
00:20:21.000Um, I know you have a tremendous, tremendous following that, uh, we need to get as much, many people watching this film as possible.
00:20:28.000Now in the final five minutes of this, uh, segment, Jenny Holland, uh, go to atheist, um, who prays the, um, the, the rosary every day and has a great love for, as she corrected me, um, last week, not necessarily for the Catholic church, but for the Catholic faith itself.
00:20:48.000Uh, the floor is yours. Um, you've seen this film. What, what's your reaction to it?
00:20:54.000Well, first I want to say it was very beautiful and very calming and almost like a spiritual experience in itself.
00:21:01.000So, um, I really must commend you for that. It was really, it's a beautiful.
00:21:05.000Um, and it was also really striking and it was almost like a refreshing, um, moment of solace, 52 moments of solace, um,
00:21:16.000um, because it, uh, the, the, the interviewees, the, the parishioners, um, in this documentary,
00:21:23.000um, words that you hardly ever hear anymore in the modern discourse.
00:21:29.000And I've been following church things quite closely recently, um, partly because of this with you, Ben,
00:21:35.000but also because I'm interested in general and I've never heard these words yet spoken in, um, sort of mainstream Catholicism.
00:21:42.000Words like reverence, words like, uh, sacrifice, words like discernment.
00:21:48.000And I agree with, um, the film's maker there, Ben, you picked the perfect clip because that, that moment where he talks about the,
00:21:55.000the masculine aspect of the mass and the, um, and the power of discernment, I think is the key problem that hinges around all of liberal,
00:22:04.000not just churches, but societies in which we've lost the balance between masculine and feminine.
00:22:10.000And the idea of the church now, when you go to, like, when I went to that, uh, thing in Turin,
00:22:16.000where the, the state, the soon to be saint was being, um, there was a museum exhibition for him.
00:22:22.000Um, and it was all about love and it was all about helping others.
00:22:26.000And that's great. That's all well and good. Um, but what about the hard parts? What about the sacrifice?
00:22:32.000What about the, uh, going without what about the militancy as Frank just said?
00:22:38.000Because that is actually, and I say this again, as a very secular person who's lived in a very secular world,
00:22:44.000my entire life and I'm an uncatechized Catholic, um, that militancy is needed.
00:22:50.000Look at what just happened. As you mentioned in Minneapolis this week. Um, this was a young man who,
00:22:57.000it seems, uh, from reports was in some ways, a member of the Catholic faith.
00:23:02.000And that whole community was attacked by what really can only be described as a demon.
00:23:09.000And I think that speaks to a lack of the militancy, a lack of spiritual leadership in, um, in the church hierarchy.
00:23:17.000And I don't mean to sound out of place, but when I, when I watch, uh, or listen to, or even attend, uh,
00:23:24.000Novus Ordo masses, um, there's, there's almost a sense of banality.
00:23:29.000Um, and I say that with some hesitancy, but that is how I feel.
00:23:32.000And I have been to the Latin mass and it's not that at all.
00:23:35.000It is very much a place of, uh, spiritual focus.
00:23:40.000And we need so much reverence. We need to reintroduce reverence back into society,
00:23:46.000especially with our young people who are run amok, not really through any fault of their own.
00:23:50.000It's really the fault of adults and the elders who failed them.
00:23:53.000Um, but we've absolutely abandoned a sense of reverence, a sense of sacredness, um, and a sense of sacrifice.
00:24:00.000And I think this film in a very beautiful way, it's beautifully shot, beautiful music, um,
00:24:07.000brings that back into the public, uh, discourse.
00:31:32.000And I think children, too, especially, really benefit from that.
00:31:34.000I think sometimes it's easy to speak too much to them in a way where it's just these words coming at them and that they just kind of filter out.
00:31:47.000But when they're seeing it unfold in front of them and seeing those actions, I think it can have a very profound effect on them.
00:31:54.000And their understanding of God, their relationship with Christ and their understanding of the sacredness of, you know, of what's happening before them.
00:34:04.000Um, as I said at the beginning, I really could have picked any 30 second, any 60 second pull from that in order to extract it.
00:34:13.000Really because the way they edited that together, two separate contributors being interviewed at separate points in time, having the same difficulty in trying to put into words what it is they like about the old Latin mass.
00:34:27.000Uh, and what sort of lacking in the new one.
00:34:30.000Liz, you'll let me come back to you, um, first off, because I go to both masses.
00:34:37.000Um, I go to the old, the old Latin one and the new one.
00:34:41.000The reason I go to the new one at the moment, because I'm living in a small village, just, um, in the, in the around environs of, of Rome.
00:34:49.000And it's just nice to be able, it's like a small, really small village of a couple of hundred people.
00:34:54.000And it's nice to be able to go to, to mass on Sunday and see the people there and then see them sort of the coffee bar, the grocers or I view, or, or the getting bread throughout the week.
00:35:06.000Um, and if I had to sort of, I don't know, drive 50 miles or, or what to get the local Latin mass, you are somewhat dislocated from that sense.
00:35:17.000That's what they're saying in this film, right? Of the parish community.
00:35:20.000That's the, I think that the real heinous thing that what Bishop Martin is doing is, and they, they can, they confronted this in the film.
00:35:28.000They're respecting, they're expecting parishioners to decide between their love of parish and their love of the old mass.
00:35:34.440Just, if you wouldn't mind, as we open this and continue the discussion on the importance of this film and what is going on in Charlotte, North Carolina, just, um, tell me something, wouldn't you, wouldn't you, if you wouldn't mind, Liz, about the old mass.
00:35:50.780For a largely evangelical audience following us today, what is the old mass?
00:35:56.280What is the tridentine mass and why are some Catholics, um, so agitated about what the Bishop in the Diocese of Charlotte has done?
00:36:10.440Just to, but first of all, just for, for, for, for an evangelical, a largely evangelical audience, just, just what is the tradition, the tridentine Latin mass?
00:36:20.840Well, I do remember the Latin mass. I grew up on the Latin mass.
00:36:24.520I was educated by the Latin mass. And what I found there was, um, um, um, the beautiful Latin, the reverence, the transcendence of the church, the quiet, the quiet, uh, recitation of the prayers following along in the missal.
00:36:44.940Latin has a special, I think, spiritual meaning for many of us. And it was the Latin mass in America that built Catholic families that educated millions of children in Catholic schools that created thousands of vocations.
00:37:03.820And I remember it was the Latin mass. And I remember it was like overnight when the Latin mass was ripped out of the churches and we had felt banners taken up.
00:37:14.280Then the magnificent 30 pipe organs were silenced.
00:37:18.240And we had banjos and we had banjos and guitars at the front of mass. And the, the priest, instead of facing Jesus Christ and the cross faced the congregation.
00:37:30.920This was a people centered as opposed to a Christ centered mass.
00:37:35.840And I saw at that point in time, people leaving the church in droves. They had no idea what happened to this magnificent liturgy.
00:37:45.960I saw priests leaving in droves and nuns leaving in droves. And we have not had a serious discussion about the impact.
00:37:55.620Now we know that the church has fallen off because of robbing us of this magnificent liturgy.
00:38:02.280But these people in Charlotte, they are in many respects and in, and in many of the major cities, they are the white martyrs.
00:38:11.160They're traveling two hours to go to this magnificent mass because they want their families to experience the beauty and transcendence of Catholicism.
00:38:22.300That has been for 1500 years, creating martyrs and faithful, faithful, faithful citizens and faithful lovers of God and Jesus Christ.
00:38:34.660And this is the battle we're going to have in the battle of the Catholic church has always been against the world.
00:38:42.000And the Latin mass stands in contradiction to the world and to secularism.
00:38:49.100And we saw that what secularism does to a Catholic boy who's now dead and to two little children who have been dead at his hand.
00:39:01.200And I think there is no coincidence that this movie is rolling out on this week, the sad week in America.
00:39:08.740By the way, Liz, we absolutely caught that when this came through in real time on Wednesday evening and the tragedy was unfolding.
00:39:21.560You, Frank and Jenny, you absolutely with the stories that we'd picked really by by because we hadn't planned, obviously, that as we planned the show, we hadn't planned those events around it.
00:39:32.200But your analysis, what the three of you said on Wednesday, I think you absolutely nailed that story.
00:39:39.000I'm very proud of the coverage that you brought out in real time.
00:39:43.080Liz, I can buy, I can agree with everything you say just now.
00:39:49.100There's one thing, however, that really just strikes me as being untrue and really objectively untrue.
00:39:56.380And I can't accept what you said, and that's that you're old enough to remember the old mass.
00:40:10.760Frank Walker, one of the great services that you do with Canon 212 is an aggregator.
00:40:17.940I often say you're basically the trad Catholic madrudge, and that is exactly the role that Canon 212 has.
00:40:24.500You're putting out headlines there that over the course of the week, perhaps one or two might be picked up by some of the other trad sites.
00:40:37.000But the whole full horror of what is going on in the church, I think you have a unique source that you're putting together there.
00:40:45.420And again, it's a labor of love that you do when you put that site together and update it in real time.
00:40:51.560And it was through your website, right, that we had that, that I found that story that I mentioned.
00:40:58.300I saw nowhere else about this Catholic priest association last having that conference talking about, folks, here's your trigger warning.
00:41:11.720Put your hands if your parents over your young kids is right now.
00:41:16.020But when what they were talking about, and this was picked up by the Lepanto Institute, Michael Hickborn, if memory serves me correctly, had the tape recorder out.
00:41:26.480He was silently listening to what these priests were saying between themselves.
00:41:32.260And one of the priests said that he thanks God as he masturbates.
00:41:37.080And that masturbation is a form of prayer.
00:41:42.320So you have this going on in the, you know, and it's thanks to Canon 212 that Catholics can know about this, right?
00:41:50.400That's what's going on over in the Novus Ordo section, the section of the Catholic Church, which is the majority in terms of actual priests and bishops.
00:42:02.200That's what they're talking about behind closed doors.
00:42:06.940And you see what's going on where you have this mass, parts of which the canon of the old mass, of the Latin mass, the traditional Latin mass, that goes back to like the 3rd and 4th centuries, like 1,700 years old, unchanged.
00:48:01.380Jenny Holland, where do people go in the modern world for transcendence?
00:48:07.680Transcendence doesn't exist in the modern world, and neither does mystery.
00:48:12.300And I know I already spoke about reverence in the first segment, but mystery and transcendence are very clearly central to the Latin math.
00:48:25.240And I've been to them myself, and I have experienced that, but it's also made very clear in the film.
00:48:30.560And what Liz was saying about how the heart was ripped out of a lot of parishes after the Novus Ordo became the normal mass, that actually speaks to my mother's own family.
00:48:46.340My grandfather was what would now be called a triptrat cat, and a very devout Latin mass goer.
00:48:54.200And, you know, the family's Catholicism definitely fell apart once the Latin mass was abandoned.
00:49:00.480And obviously there was a lot of other factors going on there.
00:49:03.620But even my mother, who abandoned the church and became an actual communist for at least a few years, she always spoke and still does to this day very fondly of the Latin mass and how much more beautiful it was and how much more powerful it was and how much more sacred it was.
00:49:20.480And how the kind of, like I said earlier, the banality of the kind of happy, clappy guitar mass was a loss.
00:49:30.080Mystery and transcendence are things that are not just lacking in the mass, but they're lacking in liberal worldview altogether.
00:49:36.840And I actually think this has had deeply negative repercussions because the, over time, this was compounded into a very smug sense of man knows it all.
00:49:51.400The educated, the intellectual, the professional knows it all.
00:49:55.900And that might have sounded well and good, I don't know, 30 years ago when the guardrails were still in place and things were more, you know, somewhat normal.
00:50:03.860But now, after everything we've seen in the last 10 years, after COVID, after the rise of the trans insanity and the sex changes for children, which was all rubber stamped and enthusiastically promoted by professionals and by intellectuals and by, you know, the great and the good.
00:50:23.860We, we, we see that the lack of wonder, the lack of mystery, the lack of sacredness and the lack of fear led to a hubris that has literally destroyed the lives of countless children.
00:50:38.660Jenny, where do people go to catch you? Beautifully put.
00:50:42.120Where do people go to catch you on social media?
00:50:45.000I'm on JennyEHolland.substack.com and I'm on X at SemperFemina21.
00:50:56.960Well, I would just ask before giving my social media that everyone send and tweet the movie Bread Not Stones to at Pontifex, that is Pope Leo's Twitter account, X account.
00:51:19.900Canon212 with just one N. Type it out in the screen and also Twitter at Canon212 spelled out.
00:51:26.960Don't forget, folks, you need to type it out in full because Canon212, since Frank Walker started appearing on this show, has been suppressed by the Google algorithms.
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