Joseph Robertson, a political strategist in the UK, has come out with an incredible analysis of the Fabian Society, a group that has been around for 140 years, and has always been known as being socialist, but moderate and non revolutionary. But in fact, thanks to Joseph s analysis and research, there are a couple of things that I consider myself a close follower of UK politics, that I wasn t aware of, and it's not as moderate or non revolutionary as they've had us believe.
00:00:48.000Thursday, 4th of September, Anno Domini 2025.
00:01:00.000Great guest this evening, Joseph Robertson, a political strategist in the UK, my beloved homeland, who has come out with this incredible analysis.
00:01:11.000And I strongly recommend everybody to go to Substack and read it for themselves.
00:01:16.000We'll be pushing out the link for this later on towards the end of this block.
00:01:22.000And the thesis basically is, I don't know how much you will follow UK politics, but there's been this organization called the Fabian Society, very heavily involved with the Labour Party since its foundation, since before it's involved in the foundation of the Labour Party.
00:01:41.000The Fabian Society has been around for 140 years and it's always been known as being socialist, but moderate and non revolutionary.
00:01:52.000But in fact, thanks to Joseph's analysis and research here, there are a couple of things here that, and I consider myself a close follower of UK politics, I wasn't aware of.
00:02:03.000And it's not as moderate and non revolutionary as they've had us believe.
00:02:13.000Can you just tell us in your own words, just a little bit about the Fabian Society and why you will go into some of the themes that you mentioned in your article.
00:02:22.000But first, just tell us a bit about the Fabian Society and why you decided that it warranted a closer look.
00:02:29.000Well, thanks very much for having me on, first of all.
00:02:32.000And, you know, I think this is a story, like you said, isn't well known even perhaps to most of the general public in the UK, let alone around the world.
00:02:40.000And there are two things to point out with the Fabian Society that are really key for the audience to understand.
00:02:46.000One is the theme of something called gradualism, which is basically an antidote, if you like, to revolutionary communism.
00:02:53.000Because what they realized is that if you do a revolution and do it well, you can take over the system.
00:02:59.000But to actually get the people on the side over many hundreds of years is how you really take over a system.
00:03:05.000It's not all about hard and fast beheadings and executions.
00:03:09.000It's more about getting the will of the people, getting the judiciary, getting the very system itself into place.
00:03:15.000And that's the theme of gradualism. It's a gradual progress through the institutions.
00:03:19.000I'm sure some of this will resonate. You know, it's the breakdown of the nuclear family.
00:03:23.000It's the breakdown of the nation state. It's the decimation of free speech.
00:03:26.000It's all from the communist playbook that we know so well.
00:03:29.000But what the Fabians did differently from the late 1800s onwards is realized that there was a route to slow and gradual progress that would culminate in them running the government.
00:03:40.000And this is what they have, in my opinion, successfully done.
00:03:43.000We've seen it particularly with, you know, looking at the current Labour government.
00:03:47.000I mean, Keir Starmer himself is a Fabian.
00:03:50.000The mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, who is certainly not in the good books of the American establishment.
00:03:56.000He is also a Fabian. Angela Rayner is a Fabian.
00:03:59.000The Lord, Lord Hermer, who is the attorney general, is also a Fabian.
00:04:04.000A recent judge who was on one of the migrant hotel cases, it's discovered, was a Fabian.
00:04:09.000They are everywhere and they have permeated throughout the entire establishment.
00:04:13.000And I think something that's very important to note and will resonate straight away is that Tony Blair was a Fabian.
00:04:18.000And if you understand that and you understand what was happening in the world between 1997 and 2008, then it puts a lot of things into place.
00:04:27.000Because their idea is to take things over through supranational institutions, international law, and to basically take away our freedom and our sovereignty.
00:04:38.000Now, I know you're going to talk a little bit about the UK's Human Rights Act from 1998, pushed by Tony Blair in a moment, and the judicial activism that really sort of snuck in also through the creation at the same time of the Supreme Court.
00:04:54.000But first, just go back, if you wouldn't mind, 140 years, to the foundation of the Fabian Society.
00:05:02.000Who were the original Fabians, first of all?
00:05:05.000And what was the philosophical context around which they got together?
00:05:11.000So you had George Bernard Shaw and Sidney Webb.
00:05:14.000And these were two of the key founding voices in the movement.
00:05:18.000Bernard Shaw, in particular, is a particularly sinister individual.
00:05:23.000I mean, he called for the decimation of certain populations.
00:05:26.000He loved what was happening with Marxist projects around the world.
00:05:30.000And we can't really even call it Marxist at that point because it was creeping out through revolutionary, what I call student politics, socialism at that point.
00:05:38.000The stuff that, for those who might like to read the Russian classics, Dostoevsky and other authors were picking up on at the time.
00:05:45.000He was a big fan of all this kind of revolutionary anti-establishment enlightenment that was driving and sweeping through Europe at the time.
00:05:53.000And he, along with his co-founders, basically realized that there was a way to do this in Britain.
00:05:59.000But because they were up against an establishment, which is deeply, deeply embedded into the British system, is what you think about when you think about Britain.
00:06:06.000You know, the monarchy, these institutions, these grand institutions we've had for hundreds of years.
00:06:12.000It was going to be a far tougher challenge than in more volatile political atmospheres on the continent.
00:06:18.000And so what they did was essentially to look at it as though they were the establishment.
00:06:22.000They started to set up universities like the London School of Economics.
00:06:26.000They set up and founded the Labour Party.
00:06:28.000I mean, I would go even further than what you said in your intro.
00:06:31.000I think they were actually the creators of the Labour Party.
00:06:34.000So they were revolutionary in every aspect of that early socialist movement, which then went on to create trade unions and all the things we saw fighting for communist purposes in the Cold War.
00:06:49.000Back in sort of the late second half of the 19th century, looking at some of the founding figures here, it's a bit like, I don't know, Sunday afternoon tea at the Vicarage.
00:07:03.000There's no real, in fact, there's no real, nothing brazen enough to frighten the horses.
00:07:10.000And yet the revolutionary content is certainly there.
00:07:13.000Now, what you were mentioning just now is about the foundation of the Labour Party.
00:07:20.000That took place around the very early 1900s, right?
00:07:25.000And I think it was the international labour movement or something like that right there at the beginning.
00:07:30.000And you have a number of different streams flowing into this.
00:07:34.000You have the web, Sydney Beatrice Webb, obviously.
00:07:37.000But you also have someone like Keir Hardy, who's presumably he's the person who inspired our current prime minister's parents in the naming of their child, right?
00:07:49.000And he was always he was that he was always a bit more being from old labour, old sort of manual labour sort of background, very wary of the middle class sentiments of the Fabian society.
00:08:04.000And he was much more, I think it's fair to say, he's obviously sort of a Christian socialist as well.
00:08:13.000I think it's the reason I'm saying that is because there are some things in the Keir Hardy programme that found it's obviously found its way into the early labour movement that a lot of MAGA can support.
00:08:25.000Right. Which is the the concentration on on a fair, you know, a fair deal, basically, for the blue collar worker.
00:08:34.000It's it's socialist. But as some people like to say, I think Blair might be one of them himself.
00:08:40.000It's social hyphen is rather than the full on redistribution of wealth and some some other forms of socialism, like sort of going towards communism and Marxism, the abolition of private property.
00:08:52.000Now, that's sort of far more in the territory of the Web's. Right. So you have this coming together.
00:08:58.000And the what the what I want to ask you here about that is the Web's, I think, didn't they go to or Bernard Shaw?
00:09:09.000He went to to Soviet Russia. He saw Stalin. He came to Italy and sat down with Mussolini.
00:09:17.000Mussolini. What was what was his reaction to those two individuals?
00:09:23.000Well, he actually advocated for eugenics. He advocated for the extermination of certain populations.
00:09:28.000He was he was enthralled, in fact, with national socialism because he understood Hitler's project better than a lot of modern day historians,
00:09:35.000which was that to properly take over a country, you can't just use the lower classes to rise.
00:09:41.000You also have to have the middle and upper classes in your in your hand.
00:09:45.000And then he realized that other movements were doing this successfully.
00:09:49.000So really, what we're talking about is exactly what you're saying is it's a melding of blue collar labor, which is essentially fighting for a better deal, fighting for better working conditions.
00:09:59.000It's not necessarily Marxism. And then this totalitarian, authoritarian mindset of eugenics, the Margaret Sanger attitude, perhaps from an American audience to to get a reference point.
00:10:10.000That's the kind of people that these shores and webs were. And what they did so successfully was to, you know, unite some of the aristocracy and the institutions, the universities, which, let's face it, weren't that democratic at the time of foundation with this more sinister subcurrent.
00:10:30.000And yes, he praised Mussolini, he praised Stalin, but he also realized that, like you said, they needed a third way. They needed gradualism.
00:10:39.000And what's really interesting to note is that this idea of a third way, this idea of doing Marxism differently is also very similar to the language that Tony Blair used when introducing his own economic platform in the late 90s and early 2000s.
00:10:53.000He used exactly that terminology a third way. So there's this sort of, as you said, it is quite English. It's quite stereotypical. It's let's do it over a cup of tea rather than have a revolution.
00:11:04.540And I think that's why it's been so successful, because you can barely notice it.
00:11:08.360And as you're saying, basically, most of the present government are members of the Fabian Society. But you make the point in your article that really, that's almost a diversion.
00:11:22.580The revelation of that should shock people and to wake them up. But that's really only the superficial part of it.
00:11:29.340Because as you make clear towards the second half of your article, the real success of the Fabian Society is its infiltration into the civil service.
00:11:39.020And you make the analysis how that sort of this is very much the UK's deep state. And that's where they have the capture.
00:11:46.060And I think in your own words, you say they've been so successful at this. It doesn't really matter which colour rosette occupies Downing Street.
00:11:54.700That's completely correct. So our administrative deep state is obviously older than a lot of other institutions, because we are, you know, the original foundational democracy, other than one or two other countries who have had it slightly longer.
00:12:10.000But we're certainly the largest nation in terms of the democratic nations who's had a system of parliament for probably the longest period.
00:12:19.760And so what's happened over many hundreds of years is that bureaucracy is built up around Whitehall and around the Houses of Parliament.
00:12:28.520And what the Fabians realised very early on was that if they could control this, this bureaucracy, this administrative deep state, then they would be the ones in charge regardless of the colour of the rosette.
00:12:38.740So what they did was to put their own people into significant positions.
00:12:43.960So as an example, the current governor of the Bank of England, a very, very, very, very important position, as you'll see in a second from the analogy I'm going to give, is a Fabian.
00:12:54.600And he, if rumours are to be believed, and I believe they are because I've had it from the horse's mouth, was the guy who was instrumental in bringing down Liz Truss, who is a name I'm sure many of your audience will be aware of.
00:13:05.820She is on the warpath to call out the deep state for what it is in this country.
00:13:10.420She's our former prime minister, former conservative prime minister, who was brought down essentially by the financial institutions working cohesively together to evict her from office.
00:13:19.640And she found that she was not only up against her own party, who have drifted far to the left, that's the Tory party, the conservative party,
00:13:27.180but she was also up against an administrative deep state that went far, far beyond the civil service.
00:13:31.880It went into the financial institutions, the judiciary, the Supreme Court.
00:13:36.320Another important thing to note is that in the UK, the idea of a Supreme Court is a relatively new idea.
00:13:42.140We didn't have a Supreme Court before the Blair Brown government, who introduced that in 2008 and 2009.
00:13:48.360And before that, the law lords, our Supreme Court, sat in the House of Lords.
00:13:54.040So they were wedded to the parliamentary constitution.
00:13:56.800They were part of the process in the lower and upper house.
00:13:59.900They got removed into the Supreme Court for a reason, because what Blair wanted to do was create a network that was the rule of law.
00:14:08.500It was the lawyers and the judiciary who were going to take over upholding this new Fabian project.
00:14:14.440And that's why it's so important that so many judges, so many lawyers are Fabians now, because it all makes sense.
00:14:24.940I just want to quickly have a quick word about some of our sponsors.
00:14:29.000But before we do that, I just want to ask you this question about the Supreme Court.
00:14:34.080Many people will be persuaded by the argument about the separation of powers and the notional idea that it's still basically the law lords, but not sitting in the upper chamber of the legislature of Parliament, but in a separate concrete body.
00:14:50.760But you make the argument, which is, historically, it's absolutely true, that whatever you might think of the concept of separation of powers, I think it goes back to Montesquieu, right, who might have coined that philosophically.
00:15:05.080But whatever you might think about that, that's not the British tradition.
00:15:09.120The English tradition, over 1,400 years, as you make the argument, evolved in a very different direction.
00:15:16.200And, in fact, in the English tradition, it is the case and appropriate that the legislature itself should be the final arbiter of what law means rather than unelected judges.
00:15:29.160There's a very fine point to make on this, and I don't want to make it too nuanced because I want people to really understand what's going on here.
00:15:34.520But the easiest way to think about this is that we have always had a constitutional monarchy.
00:15:39.120And that monarch doesn't have real or absolute power.
00:15:42.820He's there, essentially, as a head, something that binds together the four nations, because we are a united kingdom.
00:15:51.320We are Great Britain, but we are four nations.
00:15:53.760And so the monarch is the glue that holds that together.
00:15:56.980He's the final piece in the jigsaw, as it were.
00:15:59.240And so the House of Lords is essentially one down from the king, in a sense, because it's the mixture of the hereditary peers, most of whom have been got rid of by Labour, and then also an expert class of lords who sit and look through laws to try and pick through it.
00:16:44.000Since the creation of the Supreme Court, twice, the sovereign will of parliament, which is the people's will, the democratic will that cannot be overturned, of the people, has been overturned by the Supreme Court.
00:16:56.700Once, in Miller No. 1, which was when parliament was prorogued during Brexit, which means it was shut down, the Supreme Court decided that that couldn't happen and said that what the prime minister had done was illegal.
00:17:08.260Completely wrong, because it received royal assent.
00:17:11.940And the second time was the Rwanda migrant scheme, which the Conservative Party tried and failed with, where, again, they overturned the rule of the House of Commons and made it about the rule of law.
00:17:23.420So they're working against the people.
00:17:26.700Joseph Robertson, hold that, because you're touching one of my favourite, the supremacy of parliament, and this principle that no parliament can bind another, is one of my personal hobby horses.
00:17:38.860And I always love talking about this, especially to a predominantly American audience.
00:17:43.640Hold on that, we'll come back to this point in just a couple of moments' time.
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00:20:23.920Okay, so Joseph, I often use my little perch here on the wall room to gently suggest to Americans who hold their constitutional system in great esteem that actually the better system is the English system,
00:20:38.940because there you have a system where your directly elected representatives have the ultimate say over the nation.
00:20:47.660I often like to make the argument that one of the, and I voted for Brexit, that one of the things that really got under the skin of the Brits was the fact that Parliament,
00:20:57.960our Parliament could be overruled by a group of Europeans sitting in Brussels.
00:21:03.040And that did not sit well with us because we had this parliamentary tradition where Parliament is sovereign.