Bannon's War Room - WarRoom Battleground EP 867： Pope Leo Is Francis 2.0; Continuing Mass Deportations

00:00:00.000 You know, last night we reached a momentous breakthrough in the Middle East, something

00:00:14.080 that people said was never going to be done.

00:00:17.280 We ended the war in Gaza and really, on a much bigger basis, created peace.

00:00:22.820 And I think it's going to be a lasting peace, hopefully an everlasting peace.

00:00:26.660 Peace in the Middle East.

00:00:27.720 We secured the release of all of the remaining hostages, and they should be released on Monday

00:00:33.180 or Tuesday.

00:00:35.120 Getting them is a complicated process.

00:00:37.380 I'd rather not tell you what they have to do to get them.

00:00:40.680 There are places you don't want to be, but we are getting the hostages back on Tuesday,

00:00:48.260 Monday or Tuesday.

00:00:49.820 And that'll be a day of joy.

00:00:51.920 I'm going to try and make a trip over.

00:00:54.240 We're going to try and get over there, and we're working on the timing, the exact timing.

00:01:00.520 We're going to go to Egypt, where we'll have a signing, an additional signing.

00:01:05.240 We've already had a signing representing me, but we're going to have an official signing.

00:01:10.800 Why do they feel differently about this phase one?

00:01:14.180 It seems like the jubilation on the streets, both in Gaza and in Israel, is a little bit

00:01:19.760 different this time around, Sam.

00:01:21.200 Well, what they've said to me was a few things.

00:01:27.420 One is that Trump is so much behind this, and that they really have put all their faith

00:01:31.640 in him, more than any of the other deals have been.

00:01:34.200 The other thing is this coalition that he's managed to get, the Arab coalition.

00:01:38.060 He's gotten a huge international support that hasn't been in previous deals, and they

00:01:42.720 just feel like there's no way that Netanyahu can back down from this pressure.

00:01:47.380 And so they have said that there is a different feeling to this, but at the same point, as

00:01:52.440 you've been mentioning, this is phase one, but the issues in the last deal as well came

00:01:57.860 going into phase two, and so there are concerns that this might go ahead, but that it might

00:02:03.740 not last.

00:02:05.180 But this, in Trump involvement, everyone is saying is really the key as to why they think

00:02:09.840 this time is much different than previous.

00:02:11.720 Yeah, and that's the reason why I made the point that I did earlier.

00:02:14.740 We need to stop viewing this as the outlier.

00:02:17.380 And recognize this is now the normal.

00:02:18.940 This is normal.

00:02:21.020 Like, what is normal at the Department of Justice in October of 2025 is that the President

00:02:27.980 of the United States will order the Attorney General or suggest to the FBI who he wants

00:02:33.140 investigated and indicted, and they will comply.

00:02:36.200 And, you know, again, not to be the difficult one here, but if you're sitting, you know, as

00:02:43.620 a line assistant in the Eastern District of Virginia, I don't want to hear about the fact

00:02:47.280 that you disagree.

00:02:48.580 I don't want to hear that you refuse to be in the grand jury room.

00:02:51.560 What the hell are you doing in the office?

00:02:53.720 You know, what you're doing in the office is you are still conveying a legitimacy to 0.94

00:02:57.820 an office that is run by a woman right now who is, I think, probably been in grand jury 1.00

00:03:02.480 rooms twice in her life, once to indict James Comey and once now to indict Tish James.

00:03:08.380 So, you know, the authoritarians don't just rule by the handful of people at the top.

00:03:13.500 They rule through the compliant go along, get along of a whole lot of other people.

00:03:18.440 And yes, I was one of those people who said, if you are a good government employee, don't

00:03:22.600 resign.

00:03:23.120 But the assumption was that they were going to stand up and they were going to speak out.

00:03:26.560 They weren't going to sit quietly at their desk and try not to get called on.

00:03:29.440 And right now, there are a whole lot of people in the executive branch who are just trying

00:03:32.840 to keep quiet and not get called on.

00:03:34.660 And those people need to either stand up and follow their oath or else they need to get

00:03:39.240 the hell out of the government.

00:03:40.460 What is the judge considering in this case?

00:03:44.260 The judge in Chicago, you're asking?

00:03:46.360 In Chicago.

00:03:46.860 One of the things that the judge has to weigh is whether this is within the president's

00:03:51.100 power under this provision of Title 10.

00:03:53.820 And there are two things that the president can rely upon.

00:03:55.920 We actually heard about this earlier today when the Ninth Circuit heard arguments about

00:03:59.440 about what's going on in Portland.

00:04:01.260 One of them is, is there a rebellion on the ground or a danger of a rebellion that would

00:04:05.440 justify federalizing the National Guard?

00:04:07.780 And obviously, that depends on whether the court itself thinks it has the power to define

00:04:12.200 what a rebellion is or if only the president, in his own discretion, gets to decide that.

00:04:17.760 But the second question is, does the president think that regular forces are unable to execute

00:04:24.080 the laws of the United States?

00:04:25.860 And that could be a question, too, because it doesn't just depend on the immediate here

00:04:31.300 and now.

00:04:32.620 But there were some questions today from the Ninth Circuit, for example, about do we let

00:04:37.480 the president sort of have the discretion to decide how to allocate federal resources so

00:04:42.840 that if the president, for example, thinks I've put too many ICE and CBP officers in Chicago

00:04:48.000 and that's diverting from their other missions, does that justify sending in the National Guard

00:04:53.580 to assist in the protection, for example, of federal property, of federal persons?

00:04:59.320 Can he sort of like shift resources around in the way that he sees fit?

00:05:03.140 Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries and the congressional Democrats are holding the entire federal government

00:05:10.620 hostage.

00:05:10.940 I will tell you, a lot of Democrats want to get this thing open, too.

00:05:14.580 They do.

00:05:15.060 They're calling us and they want to, they just want to get it open.

00:05:18.760 And all we're doing is saying, just play the same thing until we get it straight.

00:05:24.800 And they don't know how to go about it.

00:05:27.620 I mean, it's, and the problem is we really don't know who the hell is leading the Democrats.

00:05:31.880 You have this AOC.

00:05:32.780 I don't know her at all, but I watched her the other day.

00:05:37.080 She said, well, if they want, they could come to my office.

00:05:41.120 That's not leadership.

00:05:42.580 You know, the only one that challenged her actually was Nancy Pelosi. 0.98

00:05:46.180 And Nancy, Nancy's not looking too good.

00:05:48.540 I don't know what, what happened to Nancy, but she's not looking great.

00:05:53.240 But she, she was the only one, I give her credit.

00:05:55.520 She was the only one that challenged her.

00:05:57.100 But AOC said that they can come to her office and negotiate, the Republicans.

00:06:01.740 And to say, oh, I didn't know she was in leadership, but she's taking Hakeem Jeffrey's place.

00:06:07.840 And Schumer's afraid that she's going to run against him.

00:06:11.340 And right now, he, I don't know, he can change.

00:06:13.700 Life is crazy, right?

00:06:14.700 But right now he can't beat, I don't think he can beat anybody.

00:06:18.900 So he'll be, he'll lose in a primary.

00:06:21.020 I would say he'll retire before he, before he loses in a primary.

00:06:25.220 So I think Schumer's going to retire because he can't beat anybody.

00:06:28.440 His polls are so bad.

00:06:29.380 Stephen Miller is making a constitutional argument.

00:06:31.740 That putting aside the statute, the president has plenary power under the constitutional provisions that govern the presidency

00:06:38.600 to essentially ensure the public safety, take care, that the laws be faithfully executed,

00:06:43.600 and that that plenary power is sort of at its apex when we're talking about exclusively federal functions.

00:06:49.960 They may be arguing that, for example, ensuring that the immigration laws are abided by

00:06:55.480 is one of those exclusively federal functions where the president's power is at its apex.

00:07:00.660 Has a president ever tried to use that?

00:07:03.040 And to your knowledge, I know I'm asking you kind of on the spot.

00:07:06.420 In this sort of context?

00:07:07.520 Yeah.

00:07:08.380 No.

00:07:08.960 I mean, this is a president who has, I want to just level set for a second, the most expansive

00:07:14.200 understanding of executive power of any president in our lifetime, if not in modern U.S. history.

00:07:22.080 His definition of his Article II powers are so elastic that the question for me is always,

00:07:27.460 at what point does the rubber band start to snap back on him?

00:07:30.120 Right now, the Supreme Court has totally been on board for him stretching it and stretching

00:07:34.400 it and stretching it, stretching it even so much that their conception of when a stay

00:07:38.640 is justified, for example, of a lower court order depends on their conception of his being

00:07:43.580 harmed by not being able to execute on his policy priorities.

00:07:47.500 That's a really expansive and broad definition of presidential power, particularly relative to

00:07:55.280 the powers of the other two branches.

00:07:57.140 He talked about how it's appalling that Republicans are not saying of Donald Trump, as opposed

00:08:01.540 to saying it's surprising.

00:08:02.820 And this is something we were talking about a second ago.

00:08:05.280 Man, to mark a lie at the parallel point to what Mark made about how there's the old 0.82

00:08:09.820 world of the system of justice that obtained previously and we're now in this new world.

00:08:13.760 The old world politics is one where you can be surprised about Republicans, not, dude,

00:08:18.280 it's been 10 years.

00:08:20.300 10 years.

00:08:21.180 10 years.

00:08:22.080 I know.

00:08:22.320 They have never stood up to Donald Trump on almost anything.

00:08:27.220 And let's not forget, he instigated an insurrection and they got back on board, nominated him and

00:08:34.300 are more loyal to him today than they were before that day.

00:08:38.220 Anybody who has any hope that Republicans on mass or even in small, like courageous chunks

00:08:44.720 are going to suddenly look up and go, you know, we've had too much.

00:08:48.000 Donald Trump can't do this.

00:08:48.860 I'm going to stand up to Donald Trump.

00:08:50.440 I mean, dude, like whatever you're, whatever you're smoking, I want some because you're

00:08:55.940 totally deluded.

00:08:57.140 I'm not saying you.

00:08:57.820 I mean, anybody has that expectation still.

00:09:00.040 Get used to the reality.

00:09:01.840 They are not going to challenge him on anything that matters.

00:09:06.660 You know, I don't know if the one day, perhaps the entire story will be told about the events

00:09:11.000 of yesterday, but suffice it to say, it's not an exaggeration that none of it would have

00:09:15.180 been possible without the president of the United States being involved.

00:09:18.080 It really began with your trip to the Middle East, where these relationships were forged

00:09:31.760 with partners in the region, personal relationships, close relationships that created the foundation

00:09:37.220 where all of this was possible, where I think this really took a turn.

00:09:40.440 Remember, a month ago, I never thought this was possible.

00:09:42.220 The one thing that President Trump did that his predecessors were averse to doing is pressure

00:09:49.080 Israel.

00:09:50.560 He identified Mr. Netanyahu's manipulations.

00:09:55.420 He identified his credibility shortage.

00:10:00.500 And he identified his relative weakness.

00:10:02.700 And he did something that neither Bill Clinton nor Barack Obama nor Joe Biden did.

00:10:07.920 And that is actually corner him.

00:10:10.340 But if you look at it from a wider perspective, it was Netanyahu that sort of outmaneuvered himself

00:10:16.060 into a position where the only ally he has in America is Trump himself and some in the

00:10:23.700 Republican Congress, obviously.

00:10:24.940 He has nothing he can leverage against Trump.

00:10:30.360 So Trump pushed him into the corner.

00:10:32.720 I think the inflection point, the point of inflection was the Israeli failed attack in

00:10:38.500 Qatar on September 9th.

00:10:41.000 That really got Trump angry and disillusioned with what he saw.

00:10:46.400 This is the primal scream of a dying regime.

00:10:53.900 Pray for our enemies, because we're going medieval on these people.

00:10:59.120 You're just not going to get a free shot at all these networks lying about the people.

00:11:03.380 The people have had a belly full of it.

00:11:05.300 I know you don't like hearing that.

00:11:06.720 I know you try to do everything in the world to stop that, but you're not going to stop it.

00:11:09.400 It's going to happen.

00:11:10.660 And where do people like that go to share the big lie?

00:11:14.080 Mega media.

00:11:14.980 I wish in my soul, I wish that any of these people had a conscience.

00:11:20.880 Ask yourself, what is my task and what is my purpose?

00:11:24.620 If that answer is to save my country, this country will be saved.

00:11:30.980 War Room.

00:11:31.820 Here's your host, Stephen K.

00:11:33.900 Bannon.

00:11:38.060 It's Thursday, 9 October in the year of Laura 2025.

00:11:40.760 Thanks for sticking around for the second hour of the late afternoon, early evening edition

00:11:44.240 of the War Room.

00:11:45.740 I have to give a humble brag, I guess it is here.

00:11:49.840 That cold open was kind of a mini masterpiece.

00:11:52.560 Here's why.

00:11:53.340 With everything coming out today and all the flood of news and talk and historic events,

00:11:57.640 right there in about 10 and a half minutes, you got the best summary of the key points

00:12:04.720 of the signal, not the noise on everything that happened today in cable about the news.

00:12:10.640 Dave Bratt.

00:12:11.200 Let's start in the Middle East.

00:12:14.440 In the last clip that my team pulled was very about what this show is about, is he laid out

00:12:21.140 at the end of the day, Netanyahu had to act as a protectorate.

00:12:25.720 He had no options because Trump was the only guy that he had.

00:12:28.160 He had literally lost the support, the overwhelming support he used to have in the United States,

00:12:34.080 including on the Republican right, where, I don't know, under 35 years old, two-thirds

00:12:39.600 of the kids just don't support it at all.

00:12:42.100 And a huge hunk of the Tucker Carlson, Megyn Kelly, Steve Bannon, people that used to support

00:12:46.840 Israel are not supporting this, this kind of greater Israel theory.

00:12:50.660 Give us your assessment of peace in the Middle East.

00:12:53.080 Let's start there, sir.

00:12:55.980 Yeah, well, I think it's important to start out with the basics, and especially when you're

00:13:01.500 talking about Christians and Israel and religion and peace, right?

00:13:06.840 This peace has been elusive, right, for 50 years.

00:13:10.340 And so, you know, in this country, I hope all of our Congress and Senate and the President

00:13:15.620 is leading on this, we need to aim for peace, right?

00:13:19.200 God's will is peace, not war, right?

00:13:21.480 Just picture the creation in the Garden of Eden, there's peace.

00:13:24.900 In heaven, there's going to be peace, not war, right?

00:13:28.020 All the great biblical texts, you make this very clear in Isaiah, there's prophecy about

00:13:34.120 the lion laying down to the lamb and the wolf.

00:13:37.200 Jesus and the Beatitudes and the Sermon on the Mount, Matthew, talks about blessed are

00:13:42.380 the peacemakers.

00:13:43.540 The entire law, Jesus summarizes very simply, love God with all your heart, mind, and soul.

00:13:50.600 Love your neighbor as yourself.

00:13:52.820 Who's your neighbor?

00:13:55.100 The guy falling on the wayside on the road, injured, right?

00:13:58.540 Put some bandages on him, right?

00:14:00.380 So we're supposed to love, we're supposed to aim for peace.

00:14:02.900 So the warmonger class is not happy with this.

00:14:06.400 But Trump has been trying to achieve peace in the Ukraine.

00:14:09.840 Now he's got a first move on peace in the Middle East.

00:14:14.940 You know, there's seven countries involved in all this.

00:14:17.320 Boy, if this thing happens just in this narrow peace plan, it will spread, right?

00:14:23.140 And the goal has to be peace abroad.

00:14:25.920 We've spent, I think it's somewhere in the ballpark of $17 trillion on war over the last

00:14:31.740 couple of decades alone, right?

00:14:33.000 You can think of Afghanistan and Iraq and all that.

00:14:35.280 So it's not just about money, but all that money should have been spent in the U.S.

00:14:39.580 Now you're seeing Oregon blowing up.

00:14:42.280 You're seeing Chicago blowing up.

00:14:44.660 These guys don't recognize the Article II powers of the President of the United States.

00:14:48.480 ISIS under the President of the United States is very clear.

00:14:52.120 They don't like it.

00:14:52.940 We have folks in our country now that don't want peace.

00:14:56.000 The Soros-funded NGOs, all the groups, it's becoming clear, right?

00:15:00.300 This money, this dark money is flying all over the place.

00:15:03.420 They don't want peace.

00:15:04.240 They want to blow up the United States of America.

00:15:06.700 So Trump has to handle this.

00:15:08.760 I think he's doing a great job.

00:15:10.820 This is the most important part, is to end all these foreign wars. 0.98

00:15:14.200 All the founders were very clear on these foreign entanglements.

00:15:18.340 None of them, right?

00:15:19.700 We're supposed to be guarding what's most essential to this country.

00:15:22.760 Those are the God-given rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

00:15:28.740 Remember, we've been probably the most critical of Qatar and the Muslim Brotherhood, and I would argue today with Antifa being designated as a terrorist organization, Muslim Brotherhood,

00:15:38.700 which I think the only thing I fought harder for in relation to the Middle East was moving the capital to Jerusalem in addition to trying to designate the Muslim Brotherhood as a terrorist organization.

00:15:50.920 The reality is the Arab nations have come together.

00:15:55.040 The Muslim nations have come together.

00:15:56.740 They see an opportunity in Gaza.

00:15:59.440 They see the one thing that the hardest core supporters of Israel always fought against was a two-state solution.

00:16:05.200 You're going to get a two-state solution out of this.

00:16:08.680 So as terrible as Netanyahu has run this war, right, the reality is you're going to get a two-state solution.

00:16:14.540 You're going to have limited involvement, I think, with Israel in Judea-Samaria, Samara, and you're not going to – and the Iranians are going to join the Abraham Accords or somehow join this alliance because you've got Turkey and Qatar. 0.70

00:16:32.700 Turkey's going to head the security unit, it looks like, in Gaza.

00:16:37.120 So how can you say on one hand – look, I've been admirably opposed to Netanyahu and the Greater Israel Project, and we said on this show from day one when October 7th happened, which has never been explained to anybody how that happened.

00:16:49.580 Let's put a pin in that. 0.75

00:16:50.920 You had to – you had six months to take care of the military operation of Hamas, six months. 0.54

00:16:57.300 And in the first six months, nothing really happened.

00:16:59.640 And the head of the IDF just came in in March, and he said until he showed up, nothing happened or very little happened.

00:17:05.500 So how do you – President Trump's trying to weigh a number of things.

00:17:09.280 But one is he needs active involvement from the international community to make this work.

00:17:13.540 He's clearly got this.

00:17:14.920 Right now, Hamas is saying the war is over.

00:17:17.100 It looks like they're going to exchange the living hostages on Monday and Tuesday.

00:17:20.100 President Trump said he's going to go to Egypt, probably go to Israel, address the Knesset.

00:17:24.500 But how do you ally the fears of people that are saying, hey, this is actually going to codify the encirclement of Israel by kind of hostile Arab and Muslim nations, sir?

00:17:39.400 Well, thank God you have President Trump.

00:17:42.060 There's 20 points to this thing, and it's going to unfold logically.

00:17:45.980 Those points take place in sequential order for a reason.

00:17:50.100 Israel is going to be safe, or thank God Trump's there, right? 0.85

00:17:55.900 He wants peace, but he is Romans 13 in the Bible.

00:18:00.160 He carries a sword.

00:18:01.360 He's there to enforce justice across the world, and he wants out of war, right?

00:18:06.940 You know, I hate to go back to past – but Biden and whatever, you know, the CIA came out this week.

00:18:15.260 John Solomon reporting it's been on the war room.

00:18:17.680 Other presidents end up going into war because of their corruption.

00:18:22.980 They want to hide the corruption.

00:18:25.260 Let's just change things.

00:18:26.220 Look at Europe right now, right?

00:18:27.900 Germany, UK, and France are all going away from green energy because it destroyed them,

00:18:32.700 into Keynesian economic spending on the military to bail them out in the short run

00:18:38.120 to maybe get through another election with Macron, etc., right?

00:18:41.820 So what's President Trump doing?

00:18:43.780 He's hitting it all right.

00:18:45.000 He's getting the economy running.

00:18:47.080 He's going to restore peace to Israel and the broader Middle East.

00:18:52.040 Those seven countries, the interest of the United States is to be at peace with that region,

00:18:57.580 all seven countries.

00:18:58.840 And so we're going to look out for Israel in order to have peace in the region. 0.90

00:19:02.980 And, you know, I just – I'm struck.

00:19:05.740 I had another in the book of Numbers.

00:19:09.020 The Lord God, God says to Moses, tell Aaron and his sons how to restore justice.

00:19:18.080 And he gives – Moses gives Aaron counsel to, you know, to seek peace.

00:19:24.440 The Lord make his face to sign down upon you and bring you peace.

00:19:28.480 That's how we're supposed to live together.

00:19:31.560 And so Israel is called to be that light in that region.

00:19:36.400 We're called – I hate to put too much dependence on President Trump.

00:19:40.960 The whole world is on his shoulders.

00:19:42.640 And so that's where the church, the Jewish religion, the rabbis need to speak up about peace.

00:19:48.820 How do you structure it?

00:19:50.780 The Catholic church, the Protestant church, the evangelicals, everybody needs to start thinking

00:19:56.360 again, right?

00:19:56.940 We used to have great thinkers like Hobbes and Locke, and the building blocks have to be put back in order.

00:20:02.760 What are the things we go to war for?

00:20:04.940 War needs to be the last, last, last resort. 0.86

00:20:08.800 Trump, even on the Iran bombing, you could see he was moving toward peace.

00:20:14.200 He wanted to do it through negotiation, not through bombing.

00:20:18.320 And then things got a little carried away, and the war folks are all beating the drums.

00:20:23.620 And they were still beating the drums last week, even.

00:20:25.880 There was some of that stuff going on.

00:20:27.420 So this is miraculous, right?

00:20:29.380 You talk about miracles taking place in politics.

00:20:32.580 This is a stunning miracle.

00:20:35.580 And Trump plays hardball, but if the result is peace throughout the world, God works in

00:20:41.980 mysterious ways.

00:20:43.480 God works through providence.

00:20:45.640 Trump clearly, right?

00:20:47.880 I mean, you know, people – the left's heads are blown.

00:20:50.980 I heard some of the liberal commentators on the most liberal shows saying, if Trump does

00:20:58.200 this, hats off.

00:20:59.840 He deserves the Nobel Prize for peace.

00:21:02.280 So that is quite something.

00:21:04.180 And then if he achieves this, the momentum in this country is going to come full force

00:21:09.660 along with, I think, in Chicago and Oregon, et cetera, because this is going to be a huge

00:21:15.660 momentum shift in the psyche of the American people, that if the religions can lay down their 0.77

00:21:21.400 swords for a little bit, then why in the world can't we have peace in our cities?

00:21:26.560 Why can't our young kids in these cities have literacy rates higher than 12%?

00:21:31.380 It's disgusting, right?

00:21:33.140 We need to all love our neighbors ourselves.

00:21:35.340 Your neighbor is everybody.

00:21:36.940 That doesn't mean we're utopian.

00:21:38.480 We want the rule of law in place.

00:21:41.620 The law is there as grace.

00:21:43.520 The law was given to Moses as grace.

00:21:46.760 It's in the New Testament.

00:21:48.980 Jesus said, whoever changes one bit of this law, one dot, not going to go good for you.

00:21:55.680 On the other hand, he says the ultimate law is love.

00:21:58.780 And so we're aiming for the highest.

00:22:01.160 We're not utopians, but let's all get our religious houses in order.

00:22:06.100 Let's get the religious people voting.

00:22:08.480 I don't care what tradition you are.

00:22:09.920 You need to vote for peace and you need to vote for justice in the United States of America.

00:22:15.220 The stuff that's happening in Virginia politics and the language that's being used across the

00:22:19.560 country by the left is disgusting.

00:22:22.000 They have proven with their own words. 0.99

00:22:23.720 They want rage.

00:22:25.080 They don't want peace.

00:22:26.740 They're serving their own ends.

00:22:28.080 A lot of it's paid for.

00:22:29.340 And so the church, it's incumbent on you to get your story straight and to build up the

00:22:33.740 logic of the Christian faith again.

00:22:36.100 I'm going to come back to you tomorrow.

00:22:38.680 President Trump told Netanyahu in a call that's being reported that he said, look, you guys

00:22:43.260 can't take on the world.

00:22:44.560 Basically implying that we can't, we're not going to fund you taking on the world, that

00:22:48.180 you got to figure this thing out.

00:22:49.760 And that was one of the key moments that led to this peace deal.

00:22:52.960 Before I let you go, we got a couple of minutes.

00:22:54.720 Ben Harner was going to join me.

00:22:56.820 And if you're an evangelical Christian or a mainstream Christian or Catholic, particularly,

00:23:00.940 you got to stick around.

00:23:01.740 What the Pope has done in the last 24 hours is unacceptable.

00:23:05.700 And we're going to deal with it with Harnwell and the details of it.

00:23:08.200 Last question for you.

00:23:09.200 I think it was Rubin, the legal analyst, does a pretty good job over MSNBC, although she's

00:23:14.500 virulently anti-Trump.

00:23:16.240 She talked about what we talk about all the time here, Dave.

00:23:18.780 And you're a constitutional conservative.

00:23:20.120 She talks about President Trump's interpretation and her view of expanded powers of Article 2

00:23:26.760 of the executive branch.

00:23:28.400 In federal court in Chicago today, they're arguing that very topic of which we talk about

00:23:33.300 as commander in chief.

00:23:35.160 He's saying he's putting down a rebellion, an invasion, alien invaders that's led to crime,

00:23:43.000 that the governor and the mayor are not enforcing the federal laws.

00:23:46.480 And he is federalizing National Guard from Texas and saying they're already on the ground.

00:23:51.300 They had fierce arguments in court today.

00:23:53.720 Give me a minute or two on that before we go to break.

00:23:56.800 Yeah, well, there's nothing new.

00:23:58.820 Everybody knows the power of the executive branch.

00:24:01.120 Article 2 has been expanding for decades.

00:24:03.560 And there weren't any question when FDR did it, when Woodrow Wilson did it way back when.

00:24:07.980 There was no constitutional crisis from the left.

00:24:10.820 What the left cannot believe is that President Trump is using every single lever afforded

00:24:17.080 to him underneath the executive branch.

00:24:20.400 And the power is given to him.

00:24:21.540 He's clothed in immense power, back from the Lincoln movie.

00:24:26.320 He is clothed in immense power now.

00:24:29.640 And the left, they don't like it.

00:24:31.640 They're seeing how much power the presidency has.

00:24:34.480 Nothing new has changed in terms of the power.

00:24:36.740 It's just that the Republicans actually have a leader for a change, right?

00:24:41.460 We have someone who's wielding the sword internationally.

00:24:44.960 He's bringing justice back to the cities.

00:24:48.060 It's very clear when you have citizens attacking the police.

00:24:52.360 I don't see any excuse for that.

00:24:55.080 It's about that simple, right?

00:24:57.000 The mobs are spitting on the police.

00:24:59.160 They're ramming cars into the ICE agents.

00:25:02.140 It's, I don't see an explanation from the left that's plausible there.

00:25:07.720 So there's nothing new that President Trump has to do.

00:25:10.760 Either we're a nation under laws or we're not.

00:25:13.920 And that really matters.

00:25:16.280 And we need, the church is not equipped to answer these questions.

00:25:19.540 And that's a sad day where the church can't speak up about why the law matters civilly.

00:25:24.900 Civilly.

00:25:25.980 It's a disaster.

00:25:27.060 The news is so intense today on this historic day.

00:25:34.360 My Dave Brat stories are going to have to hold for another time in another place.

00:25:38.180 We'll figure it out.

00:25:38.880 Dave Brat, your social media, sir.

00:25:41.100 Where do people go to get all the economics of Dave Brat, economic thinking?

00:25:45.660 Yeah, most of it's in the Bible.

00:25:47.400 But after that, you can go to Brad Economics on Getter or on X.

00:25:51.440 Get your kids reading a good book.

00:25:52.960 That's the best thing you can do today.

00:25:54.380 The simple and compelling wisdom from Dave Brat.

00:25:59.420 Thank you, brother.

00:26:00.160 You're quite unique.

00:26:02.400 Still a pilgrim.

00:26:03.720 You're still pure driven like Sir Galahad.

00:26:08.340 Slaying the dragons.

00:26:11.480 Gold at another.

00:26:13.780 Ended up, I think, above 4,000.

00:26:15.340 Go up and back off a little bit, then go up.

00:26:17.280 Why is that?

00:26:18.580 Why are central banks buying it at record rates now for, I don't know, five, six, seven, eight quarters in a row?

00:26:24.400 It's just not a hedge anymore.

00:26:25.720 And we taught you how it's been a hedge.

00:26:28.280 It's become something quite different.

00:26:30.080 Philip Patrick and the team laid it out for you a couple of weeks ago.

00:26:33.160 Take your phone out right now.

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00:26:43.700 I might add that silver hit 50 bucks.

00:26:46.700 Hello?

00:26:48.100 It ain't the price.

00:26:49.280 It's the process.

00:26:50.220 Always remember that.

00:26:51.200 We're not here to sell you a fish.

00:26:52.380 We're here to teach you how to fish.

00:26:55.200 Capital markets, fiat currency, physical gold.

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00:27:01.240 Talk to Philip Patrick and the team today.

00:27:03.040 Short break.

00:27:03.600 Ben Harnwell on the other side.

00:27:04.680 Let me be blunt.

00:27:13.940 Gold is up around 40% this year.

00:27:16.420 That's not speculation.

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00:27:19.540 And if a portion of your savings isn't diversified into gold, you're missing the boat.

00:27:23.900 Here's the facts.

00:27:24.800 Inflation is still too high.

00:27:26.120 The U.S. dollar is still too weak.

00:27:27.620 The government debt is insurmountable.

00:27:30.160 This is why central banks are flocking to gold.

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00:27:57.660 The best indicator of the future is the past.

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00:32:57.000 Okay, welcome back.

00:32:58.780 With everything going on, I had to include this tonight, and I thank our colleague over in our International Bureau in Rome for joining us, staying up late and joining us.

00:33:09.000 The great Ben Harnwell.

00:33:11.540 Ben, with everything we've got going on, you know, with trying to get peace in the Middle East, with this revolt going on about illegal aliens, whether it's the government.

00:33:21.280 Schumer shutdown in Portland, Chicago, all of it.

00:33:25.480 Because in the middle of this, I think throwing gasoline on the fire is a guy I warned everybody about from the very beginning.

00:33:35.040 I told people this is exactly one of the guys, and this is not a, the audience doesn't have to listen to another Bannon, I told you so.

00:33:40.840 But I'm going to go there with Ben, and I told you so.

00:33:44.760 This guy is bad as they get, maybe even worse, because he tries to put it on. 0.83

00:33:49.180 He's not as arrogant as Francis.

00:33:51.820 He's not as in your grill as Francis.

00:33:54.480 He's not as dismissive as Francis.

00:33:56.200 But he's more dangerous than Francis, and this is exactly why.

00:34:01.200 Walk through what the Pope has done in the last 24, 48 hours to really throw gasoline on this building insurgency that we have in the United States of America, sir.

00:34:13.620 Yeah, well, the Pope has, inverted commas, Pope Leo, the 14th, inverted commas, has published this week his first formal teaching document.

00:34:32.920 It's the lowest level.

00:34:34.640 It's an apostolic exhortation.

00:34:37.060 It's not an attempt to clarify dogma or anything like that.

00:34:41.800 But it is because he is accepted by most of the 1.4 billion Catholics on the face of the planet as Pope.

00:34:52.280 It carries massive political weight.

00:34:53.680 But hang on, hang on, hang on.

00:34:56.480 He's, in our religion, in the Roman Catholic religion, he's the vicar of Christ on earth in a direct chain of apostolic succession.

00:35:06.860 But I want to explain to our obviously broad evangelical and, you know, secular audience and Jewish audience exactly kind of what in the escalatory ladder of proclamations from papal bull all the way down to what this is, what it is, but still its importance because it comes from the man, right?

00:35:29.140 This is not some opinion piece written in the Vatican newspaper.

00:35:34.860 It's not some opinion piece or some interview in one of the Italian papers that cover the Pope.

00:35:40.100 This is coming from him.

00:35:41.520 So walk us through exactly in the structure of pronouncements.

00:35:45.580 Where does this stand?

00:35:46.300 Well, let's start, let's start at the end and work back with, I mean, I think you'd probably find an op-ed in the New York Times or the Washington Post better written and better thought through than this.

00:36:00.500 This is an, this is basically an anthology of Pope Francis's greatest platitude.

00:36:07.300 It's not, I don't think, I don't believe a tremendously well-written document, point one on the, on the argument that he's the legitimate success at St. Peter and has the valid apostolic succession.

00:36:21.860 I think that was, I think it was a case of Bannon trolling Harnwell live on air.

00:36:27.280 We can have that debate at a later point in time if you want to do that, Steve.

00:36:31.080 Let's say, let's put it like this, the guy is acknowledged, is recognised by the vast majority of Catholics as being the successor to St. Peter via apostolic succession.

00:36:45.980 Whether he is or not, I think it's fair to say the jury is still out, as it has been out since 1958.

00:36:54.880 But those are arguments that we can get into on another occasion.

00:36:59.400 For our Protestant brothers and sisters, for our evangelical friends.

00:37:04.820 The apostolic succession is basically this.

00:37:07.260 The Catholic Church has a sacramental concept of priesthood.

00:37:12.520 And specifically the Catholics believe that every time a guy is, a man is ordained, exclusively a man is ordained. 0.51

00:37:23.740 And the bishop, or the bishops, place their hands on his head as the formula for ordination is pronounced.

00:37:36.040 That hands putting on heads goes back, all the way back to Christ's ordination of the apostles in an unbroken chain.

00:37:45.880 That is what the Catholic Church teaches.

00:37:48.780 Because, of course, the bishop who's putting his hands on an ordinate head, he himself, when he was an ordinate, he will have had the hands of a bishop placed on his head when he was ordained as a priest.

00:38:02.560 And then you have the consecration of bishops further along the line.

00:38:08.080 But the sacrament is ordination.

00:38:11.700 That's what the Catholic Church teaches.

00:38:15.140 And, of course, amongst the sacraments that there are, two of them require jurisdiction.

00:38:21.500 That is to say, official legal sanction from a pope to be performed, matrimony and confession.

00:38:29.920 You can be a valid priest and celebrate a valid mass, but you need to have the legal permission of a pope to conduct, or the bishop that's delegated, the diocesan bishop.

00:38:42.840 That's how it works.

00:38:43.500 That's why the pope is important in the Catholic Church, because it's not only the full authority of the teaching office, but also the full nature of what's called jurisdiction.

00:38:55.920 And so in this, Reuters, hang on, Reuters and everybody's reporting in this, and it may not be papal bull or proclamation of the church, it's an official thing.

00:39:06.340 He's ordering, ordering the U.S. bishops to basically get in the way of or stop President Trump's, not just sealing of the border, but the beginning of mass deportations on illegal alien invaders to rid our country of it.

00:39:25.780 Is he not, sir, directly asking them to get directly involved?

00:39:30.560 Yep, he did that yesterday.

00:39:32.980 That's exactly what he did.

00:39:34.680 As you said in your introduction, he may not be as up in your face as Bergoglio, his predecessor, inverted commas, Pope Francis, but he is.

00:39:42.680 As we said on the war room in the first 24 hours, he's more intelligent, and the sign of that greater intelligence, Steve, is that he's more subtle.

00:39:51.540 And that is how he's confronting the democratic mandate of the president's administration. 0.53

00:39:57.300 But hang on, but Harnwell, you've got Newsom in California, and you've got Pritzker, who I think is kind of a buffoon in Chicago and Illinois.

00:40:07.600 What they're doing and what they're saying to stir this up ain't nothing to what this guy just did.

00:40:14.020 I mean, the bishops, as much as we think they're feckless and hapless, particularly to the outside world, they think they're ordained with all this power.

00:40:23.840 But even inside the church, and particularly, as you know, in the church today, the one-third of the church that is hugely progressive, they just got marching orders from the guy.

00:40:35.380 They would actually say it's Bannon and Harnwell and that radical trad Catholic that the FBI was looking at under Chris Wray that we said at the top of the show an hour ago. 0.84

00:40:46.140 Chris Wray is now under criminal investigation, okay, and criminal investigations leaked out of DOJ about that, that Harnwell and Bannon and Liz York and all these people are radicals.

00:40:58.060 They're really not in good standing with the church because they may believe the religious teachings of the Catholic church, but they're certainly out of sync with the social justice message of the lineage that we've had in the last 10 or so years.

00:41:13.460 And this is going to be, this has right now, as much as in the morning show, I was all over Soborov and MSNBC, who I said should be investigated and shut down, stirring things up last night in Chicago in the streets by doing wall-to-wall coverage of the insurrection.

00:41:30.440 The same people that stirred it up on October 7th the other night in New York City when it was basically a Hamas festival, right? 0.99

00:41:38.120 It was a Hamas festival, and that's coming on November 4th to New York City.

00:41:41.720 The Pope's thrown in with them.

00:41:44.100 The Pope's thrown in with the neo-Marxists and the radicals and the jihadists that are trying to destroy, as President Trump so eloquently said, told the military, the enemy within.

00:41:55.100 He has come out on the side of the enemy within the United States of America.

00:41:59.360 Am I incorrect on any of that, Ben Harnwell?

00:42:02.440 What is taking place is that Leo, as well as like Francis before him, is turning the institution of the Catholic Church, especially in America, as effectively an enemy of the state.

00:42:19.900 A subversive institution confronting the democratic and legal will of the state.

00:42:29.120 I draw back from calling it an insurrection, but effectively that is what the instruction to the U.S. bishops is.

00:42:42.000 It's to tell them to frustrate the democratic mandate of this administration in kicking out criminal invaders from the United States.

00:42:50.060 You don't think, hang on, hang on, hang on, with President Trump's two-and-a-half-hour or three-hour Antifa designated terrorist meeting yesterday, what's happening in Portland, what's happening in Chicago, what happened in New York the other night, what Zohan has promised in New York City,

00:43:07.860 you don't believe, right now, if you were talking to the president, you would tell the president, it's actually not an insurrection that's going on in the United States?

00:43:14.900 Is that what I'm hearing from our Rome Bureau, sir?

00:43:19.300 What I was saying is that the institution of the Catholic Church in America is being encouraged by the purported pope to resist and to oppose and obstruct the lawful work of the government.

00:43:38.340 Yeah, and that is effectively insurrection.

00:43:41.500 That's another word for it. Sedition, right? That is another word for it.

00:43:45.640 Sedition.

00:43:46.000 Frustrating the legitimate and legal work of the government.

00:43:51.420 But there's so much here to unpack.

00:43:53.700 Hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on. I'm going to let you unpack in a second.

00:43:57.460 But you and I are in agreement on that point that what he is doing is seditious against the governing power.

00:44:04.140 Not that MAGA or Trump control the entire government.

00:44:08.560 We understand. We're fighting the administrative state and the shutdown.

00:44:11.620 We're trying to take apart the deep state. That's where Comey was indicted yesterday.

00:44:15.740 That's why now there's, as Julie Kelly tells us, there's a criminal investigation on Ray and other members of the deep state.

00:44:22.040 So not that we control the apparatus. We're trying to.

00:44:24.420 We have a tenuous grip, although we won a blowout election in 2024.

00:44:29.340 But what the Pope's doing, very subtly, very smartly, is telling the bishops to basically engage in seditious activity.

00:44:38.800 Because what we're doing in repelling the invasion of our country, which President Trump has told us is an emergency,

00:44:45.180 is going against President Trump's mandates as commander-in-chief of, as outlined in his Article II powers in the Constitution.

00:44:53.880 Correct?

00:44:54.100 Yeah, that is correct. It is morally seditious. That's what's taking place.

00:45:00.520 And the tragedy is this. Catholics are obliged, on pain of damnation, to go to Mass on Sunday.

00:45:08.180 Right, to hear Mass said on Sunday.

00:45:10.540 I don't think that's the case with evangelicals or with Protestants.

00:45:14.040 But that is the discipline, that the fear, that the Catholic Church, not fear, that's the wrong word,

00:45:20.060 but that is the discipline that the Catholic Church imposes on Catholics.

00:45:23.680 You must go, and of course, you must tithe, you must give money to this institution.

00:45:29.080 The problem, Steve, to pick up one of your earlier questions of what is the ordering here of teaching documents,

00:45:34.580 you have apostolic exhortation at the bottom, then you have encyclicals, then you have, say, dogmatic constitutions.

00:45:40.720 The tragedy here for Catholics is that they are caught in a very difficult position.

00:45:45.500 And it comes out from what we were saying on the Wednesday show this week.

00:45:51.620 My plea to Catholics, to traditional Catholics, is stop giving your obedience to bishops who hate you.

00:45:58.360 And the tragedy for Catholics is that we are obliged to go to Mass and to support the Church.

00:46:04.380 At the same time that the institutional Church is taking political positions which are not binding on the faithful, on believers,

00:46:14.200 and via the hierarchy, via the bishops, via the huge political weight that they have to impose that

00:46:20.860 and to frustrate the American government, the US administration, as if those were effectively obligatory positions, political positions.

00:46:33.020 We are not, right, and this is, I say this, we Catholics are not in a cult when it comes to,

00:46:40.720 though our leadership seems to behave as if we are, we have what are called, on the prudential issues,

00:46:47.300 we have the free choice as men and women of goodwill to work out for ourselves in the secular sphere

00:46:54.820 the best way of arriving at the common good.

00:46:57.660 This is extremely important.

00:46:59.040 That is why, right, we are not in a cult.

00:47:01.900 A cult would be this.

00:47:04.000 The guy at the top of the pyramid says,

00:47:05.600 thou shalt think this and act accordingly.

00:47:10.080 And that is exactly what the Novus Ordo post-conciliar Church is.

00:47:13.580 It's a cult because there's no distinction anymore on these issues.

00:47:17.140 We as laymen have, it is our calling to renew the secular sphere, right,

00:47:22.260 according to the gifts that the Holy Spirit gives us.

00:47:25.800 And we have this hyper-clericalism coming from the Vatican overriding this.

00:47:30.280 Look, on the issue of immigration or the invasion or how many people you should let into your country, 0.98

00:47:36.860 whichever country you are, that is a decision for taxpayers primarily and the wider society to decide for themselves.

00:47:44.860 That is not an issue for the Church to come in and use the words and the name of Jesus Christ to back up that kind of authority.

00:47:53.240 That is, you know, when a Pope or so-called Pope behaves like that, Steve,

00:47:58.900 it's very difficult to draw a distinction between the Catholic Church and, say, David Qureshi out in Waco, in Texas.

00:48:12.520 There's very little difficulty. How do you tell the difference?

00:48:16.680 Right, Kureshi, David Qureshi.

00:48:18.440 That is the problem that the Catholic Church has right now.

00:48:21.440 The so-called Pope is using his authority as being recognized as a Pope to undermine the teaching that comes down from Jesus Christ,

00:48:33.240 that it is his job to protect and to impose in its place a set of arbitrary communist political positions.

00:48:42.720 We've got to bounce.

00:48:46.760 We're going to continue this conversation.

00:48:48.860 I wanted to go to the article, putting up the article.

00:48:54.440 I want people to read these articles and go to your getter because you're the leading voice, I think, of reason.

00:49:01.700 There are many other good people talking about this, but you're tying everything together and doing an extraordinary job of it.

00:49:06.580 So where do people go?

00:49:07.400 Getter's my social media platform of choice, Steve.

00:49:13.840 If you think what I've said today is provocative on the show, just go to the top of my feed,

00:49:17.880 at Hornwell, which is my surname, and I've got even more gratuitous and offensive posts waiting for your attention there.

00:49:25.440 And if you are interested in these things, Steve, do listen to our 6 p.m. show on The War Room,

00:49:32.760 where myself, Liz, your Frank Walker, Jenny Holland, we digest these issues in great detail.

00:49:40.660 It's amazing.

00:49:41.880 The show is on fire.

00:49:43.000 It's just fantastic.

00:49:43.720 Last thing before I let you go, I've got to bounce here.

00:49:48.140 We did warn people about this, and particularly the big fat cat donors in the U.S.

00:49:53.760 that all were, you know, Prevost is a product of the church wanting their cash and wanting their support.

00:50:01.580 We warned people this was going to happen, not just in church teaching, which I'd say he's directly in the lineage of Francis,

00:50:08.480 but also in Francis' radical pagan beliefs in his secular thinking on climate change and particularly mass immigration.

00:50:16.760 This is the way they break the nation state.

00:50:19.280 And we warned people this is what Prevost was, and all we got was, oh, this is an overreaction,

00:50:23.680 and he's going to be fantastic because he wears all the right vestments, and he holds his hand the right way.

00:50:28.860 Nothing could be further from the truth.

00:50:30.360 One more time, Ben.

00:50:31.720 Where do people go to get your social media?

00:50:35.060 On get at Hornwell.

00:50:36.800 And I'll close with this point, Steve, because you hit your, absolutely, this is the point.

00:50:40.500 Let us see now at the principal points of opposition within the institutional church

00:50:45.460 and see how much resistance they give against Leo,

00:50:49.380 or whether they will be bought off with the permission to celebrate the old Latin mass here and there.

00:50:55.800 I would suggest they're going to be bought off, and only on the war room and Canon 212,

00:51:01.040 and in places like Chris Jackson, are you actually going to find the authentic Catholic position?

00:51:06.800 Thank you, Ben Harnwell.

00:51:10.940 We're going to be back at 10 a.m. tomorrow morning.

00:51:12.960 It's going to be on fire, be in the war room.

00:51:14.520 I'm going to leave you with our special that we are going to do on Saturday

00:51:19.420 about the 250th anniversary commemoration of the United States Marine Corps.

00:51:23.760 See you tomorrow morning at 10.

00:51:24.760 Two and a half centuries of honor, courage, and commitment.

00:51:31.620 This Saturday, Real America's Voice presents America's Marine 250.

00:51:39.180 Uncommon Valor, a 250th anniversary salute from the founding at Tun Tavern

00:51:45.000 to today's Marines Defending Freedom Worldwide.

00:51:49.100 Witness a historic tribute to their service and sacrifice.

00:51:55.780 Coverage begins at 5 p.m. Eastern.

00:51:59.720 Hosted by Steve Bannon, Benny Harmony, Brian Glenn, and Jack Posobiec.

00:52:06.280 Join us for this once-in-a-generation salute, only on Real America's Voice.

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Bannon's War Room - October 09, 2025

WarRoom Battleground EP 867： Pope Leo Is Francis 2.0; Continuing Mass Deportations

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