In this episode, Harnwell challenges the notion that Catholics have a role in the governance of the Catholic Church, and argues that Catholics should have a greater say in the appointment of bishops and cardinals. He argues that the Catholic laity should have the same power as the Chinese Communist apparatchiks in China.
00:03:25.000Harnwell, that's not a traditionalist point of view,
00:03:27.000or Harnwell, you're nothing but a Protestant pretending to be a Catholic.
00:03:33.000You should just obey the Pope or the papal pretender,
00:03:39.000if we're going to throw that one in there.
00:03:41.000All I say that the Catholic laity should have in the West is exactly the same prerogatives that the Catholic Church has given to the CCP apparatchiks in China.
00:04:02.000That is to say, the responsibility, the exclusive responsibility of appointing and nominating and appointing bishops in the Catholic Church.
00:04:12.000Because I don't see how the Catholic Church can, the Vatican, the Holy See,
00:04:19.000can look its believers, its flock in the face and say,
00:04:25.000you know what, we'll give the right to pick bishops in China to people who spend their day pulling down Christian churches,
00:04:35.000churches, house churches, cathedrals, both Catholic and Protestant, Catholic and evangelical, I hasten to add.
00:04:43.000We're going to give these people who hate Christianity the ability to pick bishops in China.
00:04:51.000But in the West, you know, Joe and Mary O'Catholic, who have been a pillar of their parish for 50 years,
00:04:58.000then they can't have that right because that's Protestant.
00:05:01.000That is the contradiction that lies at the heart of what presents itself to the world as being the Catholic Church.
00:05:08.000And whilst I have force in my body, I will resist that contradiction.
00:05:13.000And I will resist that contradiction on behalf of the laity,
00:05:16.000the faithful laity who, with their blood, sweat and tears and cash,
00:05:22.000have kept this institution on the road over the last 70 years after the Second Vatican Council,
00:05:28.000whilst our bishops, having that free hand which they give to themselves, have created a wasteland.
00:06:45.000Well, this is a great piece that was just out today by Chris Jackson, who we talk about a lot on this show.
00:06:51.000He chronicles every day what's going on in Leo's church and he's been a terrific help.
00:06:56.000And he leads in this article with the discussion of the Aachen.
00:07:00.000I think that's how you say the Aachen diocese in Germany, where they have in Germany, they've extensively implemented Francis's gay blessings.
00:07:09.000Even though they had all these caveats in there, and Leo has mentioned the caveats, they don't add up to anything.
00:07:16.000And they're moving forward in these dioceses and they'll bless anyone that loves each other.
00:09:18.000If there is a danger for my soul, it is certainly not that I have loved too little, but that I have loved too much, meaning even to the point of taking them to bed.
00:09:29.000And then who will ever be able to love boys to the bone without in the end putting it up their backside?
00:09:35.000If not a teacher who together with them also loves God and fears hell and longs for heaven.
00:09:43.000The conflation of this perversion with the sacred and with communism, it's all in one.
00:09:53.000It's all in one in this guy that that Francis and Leo both honor.
00:10:21.000He has previous writings just like this.
00:10:24.000This priest, this late priest that conflate the two together.
00:10:27.000Now, this priest founded a movement, the Barbiana movement, and the man who went and ran ahead and created a commune with this is spending 14 years in prison.
00:12:24.000Well, isn't it interesting that they both honor the same guy?
00:12:27.000I mean, there are many people like this who they get on and they could pick someone new.
00:12:31.000And to me, it suggests that almost that there's sort of like a script that they're both running by, that there are powerful people that are are kind of helping them with their message.
00:12:40.000So they're moving right into the exact same message.
00:12:42.000They didn't come up with anything new.
00:12:44.000And it's very timely that this is happening now, because Leo just came out with his exhortation, 100 pages to Lexi Tei.
00:12:50.000It's been roundly condemned by traditional Catholics as a communist screed.
00:12:55.000Again, all about equality and the poor and the poor are a sacrament.
00:14:42.000The final update is that in 2017, Pope Francis left the Vatican to go and visit and pray at the tomb of this priest, Don Milani, who died in 1967.
00:15:01.000That is the guy that these people think is to be held up as a model for priests and a prophet.
00:15:08.000The people who do that, I will resist them with every molecule in my being.
00:15:13.000And more than that, for the faithful that don't have the platform of the war room at their disposal,
00:15:23.000that is to say, people, the vast majority of lay Catholics, I will speak up in your name as well.
00:15:28.000Frank Walker, you would do too, constantly with your website, Canon 212.
00:15:32.000We'll be coming back later, sadly, for further depredations in the Catholic Church.
00:15:38.000But before we move on now, let's have a quick recall of the people who kindly support the show with their sponsorship, including Birch Gold.
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00:16:48.000I first came across Charles Murray, the political scientist, when I was at university, with one of the most famous books, I think, on social science since the Second World War.
00:17:05.000Famous also because of its controversial linking between IQ and races, the book called The Bell Curve, and many people will have heard of that book.
00:17:17.000And Charles Murray was one of the two co-authors.
00:17:20.000He's come out an article which you flagged up.
00:17:33.000Charles Murray gained infamy, actually, from the 90s onwards with the publication of The Bell Curve.
00:17:42.000And he is affiliated now with the American Enterprise Institute.
00:17:45.000He's a social scientist of long standing.
00:17:48.000He was also the subject of a very sort of brutal cancellation in 2017 when he was shut down and almost attacked, really, by a group of students at Middlebury College in Vermont, which is one of the things that kind of alerted me personally to how vicious the culture wars and how actually kinetic almost the culture wars were becoming.
00:18:11.000Now, he has written a book published today and the Free Press, Barry Weiss's Free Press published an excerpt of it.
00:18:21.000And I think there's two things that are significant here.
00:18:24.000One is the Free Press element, because as it was widely reported a couple of weeks ago, the Free Press has been bought by Paramount and that Barry Weiss has gone to head up CBS News.
00:18:37.000So the Free Press really represents the new and developing establishment, a new liberal, non-woke establishment.
00:18:47.000So these are not right wingers. This is not MAGA.
00:18:51.000They are they've been consistently anti-woke, but they again, they're not MAGA.
00:18:58.000And yet they keep returning to this idea of God. And I think that's very interesting and very telling.
00:19:03.000They did a piece a few months ago about God in the tech world in Silicon Valley.
00:19:10.000They hosted a debate with Ayaan Hirsi Ali earlier this year, whether we need a resurgence of God and now this.
00:19:17.000So clearly, even in the mainstream liberal, non-woke elite and because really strongly must emphasize the free press is the liberal, non-woke elite, the highest echelon of it.
00:19:31.000There is a attention being paid to how much God is is really needed.
00:19:40.000And Charles's piece was very interesting.
00:19:43.000In many ways, it resonated with me personally, because my father and my family I grew up in was similarly sort of science oriented and liberal in a classical sense.
00:19:54.000And he describes, interestingly, what he described as his secular catechism growing up.
00:19:59.000So he's a very much a typical liberal boomer, joined the Peace Corps straight out of college in the 60s, very idealistic and globally minded.
00:20:09.000And he described the secular catechism as focusing on three points.
00:20:13.000One is that science and God are fundamentally incompatible.
00:20:18.000Two is that humans are animals and our consciousness dies with our animal bodies.
00:20:26.000And three was that religion universally, including Christianity, but all religions are human inventions that are meant to help us reconcile with the reality of death.
00:20:39.000And there's no evidence to support Christianity or any other religion.
00:20:44.000And he is finding that now in his 70s, I suppose, not a bit older, that he's finding what he now calls this very unreflective.
00:20:56.000So the piece is very sort of mild mannered, not to say milquetoast.
00:21:01.000But he describes as sort of being nudged along the way and in ways that I find fairly familiar.
00:21:08.000My own and I and I end up in a similar position, very open to Christianity, but not fully not.
00:21:17.000I haven't fully converted or anything like that.
00:21:19.000And he's he's kind of at the same point.
00:21:21.000But where I am coming from, what's driving me towards it are much more visceral realities that he does not mention in this excerpt, like the transing of children and the crazy other terrible things that we've done to children and young people under so-called liberal paradigm and secular paradigm.
00:21:39.000But he he's kind of coming to the same conclusion, which is that humans have a fundamental need for not just a spiritual element, which we do, but also a sort of benign moral authority that kind of oversees us all.
00:21:58.000So I thought that was a very interesting take.
00:22:00.000And he also refers to having a God shaped hole, right, even though he didn't realize that at the time.
00:22:10.000You know, he mentions that he had one of the things that he was lucky enough to never experience despair and sort of like a long, dark night of the soul, which surprised me, given what he went through with the Velcro.
00:22:21.000But I'll take him at his word that that that kind of terrible event that happened that drives you to God because you're crying out for mercy.
00:22:34.000So he's coming from it in a very kind of scientific, rational way, which, you know, I don't know.
00:22:41.000I mean, I think you can have an argument about that, but I suppose whatever gets you to where you need to go is not a bad thing.
00:22:48.000And again, I cannot stress this enough.
00:22:51.000The most interesting thing about this is that it is coming from the sort of most tweed jacket, polite Ivy League, you know, chin scratching world and not at all a fire breathing, passionate Christian community.
00:23:12.000So this is, I think, really what this is saying as sort of as mild mannered as this piece is, you know, this is not passion of the Christ by any means.
00:23:21.000I think it's just yet another piece of evidence that there's these green shoots coming up in very unexpected places and not coming from the Catholic Church itself.
00:23:35.000Charles Murray, in the social science world, Charles Murray's a household name, a very, very well known guy.
00:23:44.000So I think this book really comes, there's something providential about this book coming out at this particular time.
00:23:50.240Is it the sort of book that from what you've studied of this extract today, this article in the Free Press,
00:23:58.060is this a sort of book that you would give to people who are on the same sort of journey as you are, Jenny, which, in your own words, is open towards Christianity, but not necessarily yet sort of signing off.
00:24:14.640Let's put it like this, signing off on all of the dogmas of the traditional Catholic faith.
00:24:19.080Is that, do you think this book would help people, especially, as you say, because it's coming really from a science background, rather than an overtly proselytizing intention?
00:25:01.200I am neither professorial nor mild manner.
00:25:04.700And I, I personally am being driven toward belief in the Christian faith from very much a position as a mother who sees great harms being done to children in the secular world.
00:25:18.400But it's very, very important that we have the right people to speak to the right audience at the right time.
00:25:25.160And it seems to me that this Charles Murray book may, in fact, be that, and that it may bring to these very rarefied kind of campus environments.
00:25:36.560I don't mean the crazy woke campus, I mean the sort of older generation.
00:25:40.900The idea that God is acceptable and, in fact, necessary.
00:25:45.720That is to say that you can subscribe to Christian faith in a rational, through rational argument as well.
00:25:59.300There's no contradiction between accepting a huge part of the scientific modern explanation for the world and supernatural Christian faith.
00:26:11.300That they're not, there's not the tension between the two, that a lot of, that a lot of people, without thinking too much about it, automatically assume there to be, right?
00:26:22.220And also that you, you might, you may, in fact, be able to be a professed Christian and also be part of polite society and the dinner party circuit.
00:26:32.000It's a long time, Jenny Holland, since anyone has considered me to be part of polite society, and that includes being on the dinner party circuit.
00:26:44.640So I think that boat, as far as I'm concerned, sailed quite some time ago.
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00:31:17.040Well, in 10 minutes, we'll be back with Jenny Holland to learn more about the absolute decimation of the Catholic faith in the once former Catholic island.
00:31:31.080But I think all of the stories today are of a piece.
00:31:33.660Frank Walker, I'm sure you'll agree with me that there's a certain winning theme through this.
00:31:38.000Let's go now to Florida, to your neck of the woods.
00:31:42.000Father, former father, he has been defrocked, but Father Neil Doherty.
00:31:48.400This is a guy who has been described, and I quote, as probably the most prolific paedophile priest in U.S. history.
00:34:28.740It reminds me of the priest of caring that we just learned about, Don Milani, and how much love he had for those boys that were in his school.
00:34:40.940They use these little pious expressions that means one thing to the Catholic parents, to the parish, and to the laities.
00:34:52.900They all know that it means something completely different, because, as you say, the church used to screen out its applicants for ordination, guys with these tendencies.
00:35:07.640And then at around this stage, it was right, I think it was the 20 years before the Second Vatican Council and the 20 years following it.
00:35:15.220That was most of where these abuses took place, 20 years before the council, 20 years after.
00:35:54.340As you said, he allowed, he encouraged kids to come and play in the playground of the parish, where he picked this guy, John Doe, number eight,
00:36:05.420and repeatedly raped him, this 16-year-old boy, in the mid-90s.
00:36:11.820Because how can you love a boy to the bone, right, or whatever the expression was that Father Milani used,
00:36:18.860unless you then basically, you know, commit pedoasty on him, sodomy on him, on a boy, right?
00:36:26.220How convenient to institutionalize this and bless it now, you know, if they can just get the Catholic Church to actually make this all seem okay,
00:36:35.180even to the point of with children, then imagine all the money that they could save.
00:36:39.640Imagine all the trouble, because you can see that this culture is a culture that they were all in, that they've supported.
00:36:45.860And we have another story here about in New Orleans that I was just looking at.
00:39:41.320Mercy towards the wounded is what's needed.
00:39:43.120And they're calling these people prophets from the very top of the church.
00:39:47.940And they're making saints out of the bishop, the priest that we did a while back ago, the Jesuit.
00:39:55.000The head of the Jesuit order looked the other way, just like this bishop in Miami.
00:39:58.840He looked the other way for a long, long time.
00:40:01.160These cases, you know, if they disappear from the list of priests, this priest, Father, the one that they just picked up in Indiana that worked in New Orleans, four times he disappeared, four times in the list as members of clergy.
00:40:17.780That means that four times he was caught in New Orleans, in Dallas, in New Mexico.
00:41:06.060But it's Father Sosa, the current guy, who famously said, scandalously said, that when someone had highlighted our Lord's criticisms of adultery or something like that, he said,
00:41:24.700he said, you know, we didn't have a tape recorder in those days to record our Lord's words to be able to quote him precisely.
00:47:32.080I wouldn't put it on Vatican II, necessarily.
00:47:36.380Where I would place the blame for this is 100% on the sexual hypocrisy of the church leadership and the church structure.
00:47:49.900The Irish population, and this is very much how the liberal, secular Ireland perceives it, okay?
00:47:58.580Their argument is that the Irish church oppressed women and children throughout Ireland since the founding of the Republic and before,
00:48:09.080and then was turned around to be found to be flagrantly abusing children.
00:48:17.260So it's the sexual hypocrisy that you guys were talking about in the first segment with that jaw-dropping letter that you mentioned,
00:48:23.580written in 1959 by a priest who is now being celebrated by the Popes, okay?
00:48:29.700So this absolute baked-in rot, this endemic do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do attitude towards sexuality, Ireland really got the rough end of that, very much so.
00:48:44.600And I don't think that can really be debated that much.
00:48:48.160As a result, there has been, as this article says, a complete collapse of trust in the church.
00:48:55.780And there's a few very poignant anecdotes of a few priests who were soldiering on and describing what is even,
00:49:03.860the most shocking part isn't the numbers.
00:49:05.820The most shocking part is a bishop who is a traditional Catholic, a bishop of Waterford, I believe,
00:49:13.480describing the church as almost, the priesthood is almost an underground movement.
00:49:19.520And he's encouraging young men to go into the priesthood as a sign of a counterculture.
00:49:25.180So what has happened in Ireland, and it's happened very fast, I have to say, because I was still living,
00:49:31.400I was a university student when the divorce referendum came in.
00:49:34.440So it's within my lifetime, within my adult lifetime that this has happened.
00:49:38.560The Irish population seems to have replaced, almost wholesale, the Catholic religion with a fealty to woke religion.
00:49:48.220So the end result for Ireland has not been some sort of freedom and liberation.
00:49:52.800It has been an adoption of a new set of incredibly false beliefs that are quite damaging.
00:49:59.140And one of the things that actually really made me quite sad was at the end of the article,
00:50:03.360they talk about how GAA, which is the Gaelic Athletic Association, which is their sort of,
00:50:08.960their big sporting body, it's their national sport of hurling and Gaelic football,
00:51:39.100My thanks to Cameron Wallace, our producer, and to Will and the great team at Real America's Voice.
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