In this week's show, we take a look behind the scenes of the Catholic Church, and try to figure out what's going wrong with the hierarchy, and why it's so hard for Catholics to go to Mass in peace. We're joined by the usual suspects: Frank Walker, Lizior, and Jenny Holland.
00:00:29.000I wish in my soul, I wish that any of these people had a conscience.
00:00:34.000Ask yourself, what is my task and what is my purpose?
00:00:38.000If that answer is to save my country, this country will be saved.
00:00:44.000War Room. Here's your host, Stephen K. Vann.
00:00:48.000Wednesday 22nd of October, Anno D'Armini 2025.
00:01:01.000Hanwell here at the helm, at Steve Bannon's War Room.
00:01:04.000This is that little portion of the week when we get to analyze, go behind the scenes of all things Christian.
00:01:11.000And as happens to be the case week after week after week, specifically the things that aren't going quite right in the Catholic Church.
00:01:20.000That's not by any particular design on our part.
00:01:23.000It's just the way the news cycle works.
00:01:25.000And there was much going wrong in the Catholic Church.
00:01:28.000I just want to respond before we get fully underway to something that comes up occasionally in comments that I do read.
00:01:35.000I read all the comments on Getter and Rumble to these shows.
00:01:38.000We're not doing this show because we hate the Catholic Church, or we want to cause scandal, or we want to create difficulties with Catholics living their private lives.
00:01:49.000We're doing this job, we believe, as a service, using our full right as laity to hold our bishops and cardinals to account when they are not performing their duties in defending the flock.
00:02:04.000Now, how everyone does that is a prudential matter.
00:02:08.000Catholics of goodwill can differ on the correct approach.
00:02:14.000Whereas most of the other Catholic, so-called Catholic media, when they accidentally bump into the truth, they just quickly get up, brush themselves down, check that no one saw, and carry on.
00:02:29.000If we see something that's not right, and we want to change it for the sake of the church, out of love for the church, we get our pointy finger out and we pluck at that scab as a service.
00:02:43.000So, without any further ado, bring on our usual three scab pluckers in chief, Frank Walker, Lizior, Jenny Holland.
00:02:56.000No, because looking at the news that we're going to cover today, this really is why this show exists.
00:03:05.000We try to underline how much the Catholic hierarchy hates you, the faithful Catholic, sitting in the pew Sunday after Sunday, so that you might use that anger to power forward and effect some kind of change.
00:03:23.000And how that is going to work out, we don't know yet.
00:03:26.000What we're doing now is just trying to, spreading the truth can never be a disservice, right?
00:03:31.000Spreading the truth in charity, that's our obligation to do.
00:03:35.000And I think the first story up today is just absolutely perfect as an indication of how much your Catholic hierarchy hates you and holds you in contempt.
00:03:48.000Why? As Frank Walker will explain to us what has gone on in Peru, which is the backyard of our current Pope.
00:04:03.000Let's see what the canonical penalties are.
00:04:05.000Let's see about the canonical processes that are launched against this bishop.
00:04:11.000And I tell you why, because when it comes to the laity, when it comes, all we want to do is be able to go to the traditional mass in peace.
00:04:20.000That's when they clamp down, that's when they do the full length, you know, you must obey that Rome has spoken, the case is closed.
00:04:29.000That's when it comes to us, the laity.
00:04:32.000It comes to they themselves, the bishops who are running this church into the ground.
00:04:37.000They give themselves a free reign to do what they want.
00:04:40.000And they do what they want with the tradition of the church.
00:04:44.000So they impose the novelties on us and prohibit from us the things that are our birthright as Catholics and give themselves the free permission.
00:04:55.000Frank, why don't you tell us what has gone what's going on in Peru?
00:05:02.000Well, in addition to cracking down on the Latin mass, they also say call the FBI.
00:05:07.000So that's that's another thing that they that happens in Peru.
00:05:12.000There's a bishop, Bishop Reinhold Nan, who has been, you know, he resigned at 63.
00:05:21.000And he said he resigned because he was feeling he has some sickness for illness.
00:05:42.000And as we come to find out after he goes through some counseling and he deals with depression and he says that he was, you know, all of the negativity of rising, the higher the higher he rose, the more he was overwhelmed by all the negativity.
00:06:59.000And I'm thinking, well, I actually know of somebody who'd climbed quite high up that hierarchy.
00:07:06.000And that person is now the reputed pope of the Roman Catholic Church.
00:07:13.000Abysses, tragedies, abuse, mediocrity and lies.
00:07:19.000It's not a great way to describe your fellow bishops.
00:07:23.000But anyway, I don't mean to interrupt you.
00:07:27.000I just thought what he was saying there, whether he meant or not, and presumably he did not mean to do it, actually encapsulates the then Cardinal Prevost.
00:07:48.000I'm sure there are plenty of abysses and tragedies in there.
00:07:51.000And he has floated around back and forth, considering leaving the priesthood, going back.
00:07:56.000And it even says in this, if you read in here, that he's fallen in love many times already before.
00:08:03.000The thing is that he didn't really apply.
00:08:07.000He didn't go through the processes of getting laid aside, of asking for it.
00:08:11.000He just went ahead and did everything that he wanted to do.
00:08:14.000And now at this pillar article, they say, you know, the position is to really punish him.
00:08:18.000And he has to ask to be to be, you know, go through the process of laid aside.
00:08:24.000And on top of that, he has to ask in order to be freed from celibacy, because the continents and the celibacy that comes along with the with the clerical state is very important.
00:08:33.000And there's a there's a mark on your soul that is that goes back thousands of years, even even with priests that are married, that's connected to the sacraments and the mass and everything.
00:08:44.000This guy is just like he's sort of like a child, you know, it's like he's never had to straighten up because he lives in this in this environment where he has everything he wants.
00:08:53.000He has the money of the faithful. It's sort of like our criminals who like mafioso when invaded an orchestra or try to fly a jet plane or something, you can't figure out if he's being incompetent or if he's being just nefarious about the whole thing.
00:09:08.000Because when you read about his knowledge of doctrine is so terrible, the he calls celibacy crass, you know, and now he's going to live out the life of the of the priesthood that we all have in regular life.
00:09:22.000So you're absolutely right about his childhood.
00:09:27.000I see, Liz, you're shaking your head. I'll go to Liz then in a moment.
00:09:31.000But you have to be right to say talk about his his his immaturity.
00:09:36.000He his self justification is depression was the reason for the resignation.
00:09:44.000Liz, you are. I don't even know if this if a bishop who's not being released from the clerical state, who's still a bishop that was a priest.
00:09:54.000I don't even think that he can actually canonically that is in the eyes of the church actually get married.
00:11:23.000I'm very suspicious of the German radical German bishops conference that has really been, you know, as far left as you can get in the Catholic Church.
00:11:50.000And I think we need to take a close look at this and watch it very carefully.
00:11:55.000Frank Walker, Liz, Liz, you're absolutely correct, isn't she, when she says this?
00:12:00.000She says this. This is actually a bishop who, though he's retired, he wasn't a diocesan bishop.
00:12:06.000It doesn't really matter technically what he was, but he was just to be precise about this.
00:12:10.000He was a he was a he was a it was a territorial prelature, which is like a pre diocesan structure out in mission territory.
00:12:20.000But he was a bishop, a bishop who took resignation.
00:12:24.000But that simply means a bishop who retires early is still very much a bishop and a priest just doesn't have jurisdiction over an ecclesiastical territory.
00:12:37.000So a bishop and priest, therefore, who gets who gets who what's the what's the what's the expression of words used tries to confect a marriage, but of course can't do so because they're not canonically in the eyes of the church able to get married.
00:12:55.000That is an ecclesiastical crime. Liz, you're absolutely right. This is a throw down to Pope Leo, isn't it?
00:13:02.000And therefore, for us, the laity, it is an opportunity to see how Leo handles this.
00:13:08.000Well, your Leo is so involved in everything that happens in Peru.
00:13:13.000He was so important. And, you know, so that does say he may be very connected.
00:13:19.000This may be planned. And there's also in this piece at the at the pillar that says that he was he sort of attacked Archbishop Gonswain in the press and called him a conservative and said how much he didn't like him in seminary.
00:13:34.000He's he's he's been pulling stunts for a long time. So perhaps they would look to him.
00:13:39.000But I remember seeing the German bishops, Pope Benedict walking by and all of them refusing to shake his hand.
00:13:45.000I mean, you're he must be very well connected and well liked among these among these people, these German bishops and connected in Peru, too.
00:13:53.000So I can certainly see how this would be part of a new a new stunt, you know, that they're they're trying to move to next.
00:14:00.000This is one of the things we know what we ought to do, folks.
00:14:05.000We ought to keep a list of all the things that require implicitly or explicitly a response from Leo where he's going to be smoked out to see, you know, we know we've already formed up formed our opinion based on our knowledge of this guy from before.
00:14:23.000But there are many people, let's say, let's say generously, there are many people of goodwill who are still waiting to make up their minds.
00:14:32.000We ought to keep an anthology of all these issues, you know, like what's he going to do for Bishop Strickland?
00:14:41.000Is he going to give him his diocese back? Right.
00:14:43.000Seeing as he was in charge as as cardinal, as responsible for bishops in taking his diocese away.
00:14:51.000What is his approach going to be with regards to Traditionis Custodes, the Traditionis Custodes, the prohibition on the on the Latin mass?
00:15:04.000What's he going to do with regards to the dubia that have been awaiting an answer for many years?
00:15:10.000These issues that will smoke him out and will therefore force the previously mentioned Catholics of goodwill to make a stand to take to make a decision and then take a stand.
00:15:24.000I just want to say from someone who's outside the church and not knowing necessarily the significance of these offices and the names attached to them.
00:15:33.000You know, what's needed today desperately is a rebalancing of society and morals.
00:15:40.000So as to include to re-inject some of the traditional morality that we've we've abandoned in the last 50 years.
00:15:47.000And it's very disheartening and shocking. I have to say it's shocking, even after all the scandals the church has brought upon itself, the church establishment has brought upon itself to see that these most fundamental rules of its own making, the foundational rules in church teaching and church morality are just so flagrantly disregarded.
00:16:09.000How can it possibly how can the church establishment possibly be any kind of moral leader when it doesn't follow its own rules?
00:16:18.000It's week after week. We see this last week. It was with the you know, the the boy, young boys and the loving of the young boys.
00:16:25.000And this week it's oh, but I was depressed. So I took a wife. That's not how this works.
00:16:29.000We need the opposite of this. We need I mean, that's how it works in the outside world and the outside world is coming apart at the seams.
00:16:36.000It's very depressing to see that church leadership reflects to such a bad degree the poor morals of the outside world.
00:16:45.000Look, we don't have time to to go into this further, because I know, Liz, your has has has her story to speak.
00:16:57.000But that point is too good. Right. That point. Jenny Holland's point is too good. Frank, you have the last word.
00:17:03.000But responded to Jenny's point. How can the Catholic hierarchy insist that we take their rules and their authority seriously when they refuse to take that authority seriously themselves?
00:17:16.000Well, I think you have to see what the strategy has been with the church for the last hundred years.
00:17:22.000It's an invasion and invasion. They've infiltrated it with posers who pretend to be Catholics, but they're really, really terrible anti-Catholic liberals.
00:17:31.000So, you know, when you look at the church and you look at people in the church, if they're not part of the Catholic faith spiritually believing all the things that it teaches, then somebody somewhere is supposed to evict them.
00:17:42.000They should be removed. They certainly should not be honored. And that's the process that's missing.
00:17:48.000So that's what they've done in order to destroy the church. They put men like this in there.
00:17:52.000And to Ben's point there, you're right. They, you know, the Pope Leo may respond to pressure because just today in Cleveland diocese, they've extended the Latin mass instead of cutting it back for a change.
00:18:04.000And today he came out from Castle Gandolfo's weekly visit to where they have the Chef Arts wonderful restaurant there that he does every Tuesday.
00:18:11.000And he didn't make any statement to the press. He just walked right by because he doesn't want to get in trouble.
00:18:17.000That's the second time in a row. So I think that you're right. If we stay ahead of the game here, maybe he'll get, he'll respond to some pressure.
00:18:26.000Well, you know, on the, on the theme of the Catholic church, not taking its own teaching seriously, potentially leading to, to, to the sacrilegious reception of the Eucharist.
00:18:40.000Stand by 90 seconds. Cause Liz, you're has the, the, the low down on what has publicly taken place in giving communion to a non-Catholic.
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00:19:47.000Liz, you're, when I saw this story, it was like, um, Ratzinger giving communion to Frère Roger at John Paul II's funeral.
00:19:57.000Um, an act so scandalous that the Vatican were forced into making up this narrative that Frère Roger had actually converted to, uh, to, to Catholicism.
00:20:46.000And he was seen publicly during the ceremony, um, receiving Holy Communion.
00:20:52.000And according to canon law, Catholic ministers administer sacraments listedly only to Catholic members of the Christian faithful alone.
00:21:03.000And we know that we have seen the scandal play out publicly with Nancy Pelosi receiving communion, the pro-abort Catholic politician at a mass in St. Peter's where Pope Francis was.
00:21:17.000We've seen Cardinal Cupich, um, who, uh, gives an award to a pro-abort to the same, uh, Senator Dick Durbin, who has been told by his own bishop not to present himself for communion.
00:21:32.000And what this is really, you know, and why I think it is so heinous and why we need to, you know, cry out to heaven about this is this is about diluting the Catholic, diminishing the sacredness of the sacraments.
00:21:50.000Not only the liturgy, which we've seen from this papacy and the Francis papacy, but they're diminishing the dogma.
00:21:58.300And by giving communion to non-Catholics, they violate, not only violate canon law, um, but they also bring, um, a scandal, a public scandal and treat the Eucharist as some kind of political tool.
00:22:15.300Um, and you know, I'm, I'm very fond of J.R. Tolkien, who wrote a letter to his son, Michael, about the Eucharist.
00:22:23.300And I think it's one of the most beautiful quotes about the Eucharist.
00:22:27.300He said to his son, Michael, the one great thing to love on earth, the blessed sacrament.
00:22:36.300And I would encourage our audience to read the full letter.
00:22:40.020Um, it's not real long, but he talks about J.R. Tolkien, the great novelist talks about, you know, the, the meaning of the Eucharist and how important it is to the faith, um, and how it should be reverence and protected.
00:22:57.300Look, this is how things work in political situations.
00:23:00.300The secretary of state's office knows that the prime minister of Armenia is coming.
00:23:04.300They know that communion's being handed out, um, during the liturgy, they say, you know, present yourself, you know, with your arms crossed and you'll receive a blessing.
00:23:14.300But, you know, you know, Flannery O'Connor, the great American author said she, a friend once said to her, you know, the, the Eucharist is a pretty good symbol.
00:23:24.560And Flannery says, if it's a symbol, to hell with it.
00:23:29.180And, you know, and, you know, I, I love Flannery because she speaks very frankly.
00:23:33.400She was a very devoted Catholic and a fiery Catholic.
00:23:37.220Um, but we have to take not only our literature, not only our dogma, but the very sacraments and in the canon law that protects the dignity of those sacraments.
00:23:51.220Sacraments, we must take it seriously and fight for the protection.
00:23:56.980Um, and apparently, you know, the Vatican, there's been a series of incidents, all public, and they bring scandal to the faith and they diminish it, you know, diminish and dilute the Catholic brand, frankly.
00:24:08.480So, um, this is really infuriating to me because when the Vatican, when the Vatican is banishing Catholics from attending the Latin mass, um, and giving Holy Communion, the Eucharist in the Vatican in St. Peter's Square to non-Catholics.
00:24:28.000So, um, you know, again, we have to raise holy hell.
00:24:32.680Um, we have to, you know, really be like, uh, you know, like, you know, those great Catholics and, you know, like Flannery and J.R. Tolkien and the rest of them to fight for the integrity of the faith.
00:24:46.240That there is an intransigence about J.R. Tolkien.
00:24:49.400I, I, I think that he either took his son or his grandson to mass, um, after stuff, they changed the, um, changed over from Latin to the vernacular.
00:24:58.660And, um, as loud as he could, uh, when he came to the responses, when everyone was saying them now in English, he insisted on saying the old Latin responses so that everyone would hear them.
00:25:11.620You know, that I think is, that is a model for imitation.
00:25:14.200Um, the point here, one of the points, in addition to everything that you said, Liz, your, the other point here is that it's actually, it's not just about when the Catholic Church says that only Catholics in a stage of grace can,
00:25:27.480receive communion, receive communion, that, that is not just about preventing sacrilege, that that is obviously the first and most important thing.
00:25:34.940It's actually for the recipient's own good as well, because if they're not in a state of grace and they receive communion, that's to their own condemnation.
00:25:43.800Likewise to, to our separated brethren, great Christians, great believers, they might, I know so many evangelicals who can cite chapter and verse far better than I can,
00:25:54.520but if you receive communion, um, and you don't believe that that is the, no, you willfully don't believe, you refuse to believe that what you're receiving is the body and blood of Christ,
00:26:05.280again, that's to your own, uh, damnation.
00:26:08.260So when the Catholic Church says you have to be a Catholic in a state of grace, it's to prevent sacrilege, but it's also for, for the, for the recipient's own good.
00:26:18.480The Catholic Church needs to be sure that when you present yourself for communion, the, um, that, that you believe what the Catholic Church teaches,
00:26:27.740or at least open to believe, you know, you might, people, Catholics, some Catholics might have private doubts,
00:26:32.480they might struggle with believing it, but it's not an obstinate act of the will to refuse to, to, to, to believe it.
00:26:38.860And that's why the Catholic Church traditionally has this, um, has this response, because it cares for the well-being and the salvation of its flock, of all people.
00:26:50.080Folks, stand with us, we'll be, uh, stay with us, we'll be digging down further on all things scandalous in the Catholic Church in two short minutes.
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00:31:35.140Jenny Holland, you've got the details here.
00:31:36.980So within the Protestant corner of England, they are using baptism, Christian baptism, as an instrument to stop so-called asylum seekers from being deported.
00:31:58.040Because the moment they're Christian, a lot of these, if they come from Islamic countries, they can't go back because formally they will then be on the, well, that's the argument.
00:32:06.700I don't think there's any reason why they can't go back.
00:32:09.200But the argument is, is that if you send someone back to a place where they can be killed, then under international law, they have the right to stay.
00:32:17.760Okay, so therefore, a group of Protestants is going around to the asylum hotels and baptizing people so that they can stay.
00:32:33.500Jenny, first of all, are these authentic baptisms, are these authentic, inverted commas, conversions?
00:32:39.560Before we talk about who they are letting to stay and the damage that they do to the social fabric, which we'll come to in a moment, just tell me the first thing.
00:33:24.040So the Daily Telegraph had a very interesting article about a Christian charity called Care Links,
00:33:31.440which is part of the Christadelphian sect that is traveling around the country, like you said,
00:33:38.220going to migrant hotels throughout the United Kingdom, specifically England, and baptizing migrants,
00:33:44.720including just sort of dunking them in the bathtubs in their hotel rooms.
00:33:48.260And they do this after providing migrants with a kind of pamphlet, an introductory book called Bible Basics,
00:33:56.580and asking them to state their Christian conversion and repent of their sins.
00:34:02.700Interestingly, yes, as you said, the process can then be used for these asylum seekers to buttress their case,
00:34:16.940allowing them to remain in the country.
00:34:18.780Because like you said, if they're returned to Muslim countries, they would face persecution.
00:34:23.640Interestingly, so the lower adjudication courts are private, but there's an upper tier of cases that are public.
00:34:34.080And the Telegraph specifically mentions several cases, four of which were thrown out by the court.
00:34:40.560So at least there's that little glimmer of sunshine.
00:34:43.380But two of which were upheld because in each case, it was an Iranian applicant male who had used the Christadelphian conversion as proof of his religious sentiment.
00:35:00.660Interestingly, the shadow home secretary, so the conservative home secretary, who is not currently in power,
00:35:07.560as a labor government, obviously, is calling for the rules to be changed so that you can only claim Christianity as a reason for asylum
00:35:15.240if you were Christian before you arrived here, which makes a lot of sense.
00:35:18.700But it's not just the Christadelphians who are doing this.
00:35:21.520The article also linked back to a particularly shocking story from last year where an Afghan asylum, failed asylum seeker,
00:35:31.040who had already had a sexual crime conviction against him, had his asylum claim rejected two times,
00:35:41.680but then went to a Baptist minister who testified on his behalf and supported his claim,
00:35:49.360saying he had actually converted genuinely and that he should be allowed to stay.
00:35:54.880So the home office, actually, even though it made a case against this migrant, ended up giving him asylum.
00:36:24.260First thing to say here, and I said this before and I'm going to say it again, right?
00:36:28.980It's time to float Harnell's little theory here.
00:36:34.360When agents of the state in the home office sign off on these people, these asylum seekers, to stay in the country,
00:36:41.620they give them legal permission to stay and it gets stamped and they've got to sign it, initial it.
00:36:48.800The officials that sign off on those need to be held criminally responsible for any crimes that the people they've given permission to stay in the country then go on to perform.
00:37:07.420And I'm not going to stop saying that, right?
00:37:09.780Because the people who are signing off on these things, they have no skin in the game when it comes to the crime wave that is rippling through the UK.
00:37:20.320Second thing, Jenny Holland, this guy that you're talking about, Abdulazidi is his name.
00:37:27.040This guy, because listening to the show so far, you might think, well, you know, from a Christian perspective, if they're given these pamphlets on what the essentials of the faith are,
00:37:37.600perhaps it's an authentic conversion and, you know, perhaps Harnell's being too hardline on saying send them back.
00:37:46.520Right, this guy, and I quote the Daily Telegraph, churches faced scrutiny over migrant baptisms last year when details of Yazidi's conversion to Christianity emerged,
00:38:03.300despite being described by friends as a good Muslim who still ate halal meat.
00:38:11.320Yes, well, you can take the halal meat out of the boy, but I don't know.
00:38:16.780I mean, honestly, it's not just the home office that is very much under question here, actually, because in their defense,
00:38:26.020and I'll probably never defend them again, so take note, everyone, they did try and stop this particular man from getting asylum.
00:38:32.540Interestingly to me, it was the Baptist ministers, one of whom had been approached with a literal knock on the church door
00:38:40.200by an Iranian man, and two days later had basically converted this man via Google Translate
00:38:50.760when the man expressed a desire to join the Christian faith, and the pastor is quoted in this article as saying,
00:38:58.940and I'm literally quoting, I saw no good reason not to.
00:39:02.760And again, I think the reason they're doing this is because, as someone else has quoted in the article,
00:39:07.260they trust that the home office has strict procedures and that they're operating in good faith.
00:39:14.840That's how naive and detached from the real world the establishment across the board in Christianity seems to be.
00:39:22.300So it's not just the Catholic Church. It's not just the Church of England.
00:39:25.280I mean, surely these pastors and these Baptist Church and these Christadelphians have noted that there was, like,
00:39:34.100certain things like the, you know, the grooming gang scandals and all the various crimes that have committed
00:39:39.540and the general threat of Islam across the Western world, not just in England.
00:39:45.140And yet they're sort of shuffling along as if we're living in some sort of, like, you know, happy, clappy,
00:39:52.620let's all, kumbaya, peace and love paradise, where these religious, these deep religious hatreds don't exist.