Bannon's War Room - WarRoom Battleground EP 888： WarRoom Marines 250 Special： The Last 600 Meters Cont.

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00:01:29.980 Clio Pascal and Colonel Grant Newsham are with us.

00:01:33.640 Colonel, I'll start with you having dedicated your life to the core.

00:01:38.340 What does it mean for you today on the 250th anniversary of it?

00:01:41.680 I said I know you're a historian and done great work, particularly your book, When China Attacks.

00:01:46.960 There are not many institutions in the history of mankind that have lasted for 250 years, sir.

00:01:53.700 Well, it's an institution that has really been designed to do one thing, and that is, if necessary, die defending America.

00:02:02.540 There's not too many institutions that have that as their basic premise, and it's never had any shortage attracting people.

00:02:09.600 It's had high standards, and when it's kept them, it's done very well.

00:02:13.560 And this is ultimately what the Marines are about.

00:02:17.220 This is the ultimate in self-sacrifice.

00:02:19.480 And every Marine that you ever see has had to pass a pretty difficult test just to be called a Marine.

00:02:25.680 So it's a fairly exclusive club to get to be part of it.

00:02:29.280 We had the major general on today that was in charge of Parris Island, and we talked about the transformation.

00:02:37.700 How do you take an average American kid, I guess above average, right, and turn them into a Marine, 0.58

00:02:46.640 someone that can face the intensity of Fallujah and Najaf and Second Fallujah,

00:02:51.640 where you're in some of the most incredibly difficult urban combat that anyone has ever fought in?

00:02:59.020 And what's the transformation process?

00:03:00.860 How do you take the raw material of an average American kid and turn them into a United States Marine?

00:03:06.840 Well, it's one of the most astonishing things you'll ever come across,

00:03:10.260 that they've been so successful at it for so long.

00:03:12.740 And you've obviously got to expose them to an awful lot of pressure and stress

00:03:16.940 and then show them how to deal with it.

00:03:20.740 And not everyone can, but most people will be surprised exactly what they can handle.

00:03:26.040 But there's no easy way around it.

00:03:27.540 And the easier it is in a training environment, the less likely it is you're going to succeed in a place like Fallujah or Najaf.

00:03:36.240 And you saw the results of it.

00:03:38.780 And the interview with Scott Cuomo, this is as if you got to talk to somebody who was at Iwo Jima, Guadalcanal,

00:03:46.000 took on the Japanese and finished them off. 1.00

00:03:48.360 It's the same raw material they take and they turn it into something that does America's bidding for it and just slays our enemies.

00:03:57.500 And it is ultimately a crucible.

00:03:59.860 You know, you are testing people to see what they can handle.

00:04:03.020 And as I said, generally speaking, they can do it.

00:04:05.960 Not everyone can.

00:04:07.180 And with officers, it has to be even harder because you don't want these Marines led by people who can't handle the stress.

00:04:13.680 So the harder it is, the better it is.

00:04:16.940 Of course, if it's gratuitous bullying, that doesn't really get you very far.

00:04:21.960 But it is a pretty successful model that the Marines have for stressing people, showing what they can handle.

00:04:28.320 And you instill the self-confidence in them.

00:04:31.020 And that ultimately is really what it's about with the Marines, plus this absolute dedication and devotion to the nation, to the idea of freedom.

00:04:39.880 You'll notice that after they do go out and fight and win, that the first thing they want to do is go home.

00:04:46.060 They don't want to keep territory, stick around and enslave people.

00:04:49.380 They just want to go back to their peacetime lives.

00:04:53.580 And it's amazing that they keep getting this raw material and producing the kind of Marines they have.

00:05:01.580 And to my way of thinking, this has always meant that at the senior most level in the Marine Corps, the senior officers, that there's an immense responsibility to get this right, to make sure that you don't squander this resource, don't squander these lives.

00:05:16.820 And that is a constant challenge.

00:05:18.780 And sometimes they do better at it than others.

00:05:21.640 But the young officers, the staff NCOs, the NCOs, the junior Marines, they always perform superbly.

00:05:30.420 It's just a question of how well they're led.

00:05:33.760 To Colonel Newsom, in the film, and one of the things that jumps out at you is that you have the Lance Corporals and some of the corporals are 17, 18, 19 years old, by and large.

00:05:46.660 The non-commissioned officers are not that much older.

00:05:49.180 Some of the sergeants are, but a lot of the non-commissioned officers are in their early 20s.

00:05:53.740 And the junior officers who are throughout this, the second lieutenants and first lieutenants, as Scott told you, he was, what, 22 years old.

00:06:00.960 They're in their early.

00:06:01.680 So you have a bunch of teenagers are just in modern American society where people are transitioning to that formative period to become men.

00:06:11.560 You took this film because we showed it everywhere to Marines.

00:06:16.020 And the feedback we got in showing it to Marines, whether it was at Pendleton or wherever we went, was overwhelming when Marines saw it.

00:06:23.660 The most overwhelming, to Colonel Newsom's point, is that you went, I believe, out to the West Coast to show it to the Force Recon alumni.

00:06:32.540 There was a meeting at Quantico.

00:06:34.440 At Quantico.

00:06:34.940 Force Recon.

00:06:35.860 Yeah, that's right.

00:06:36.720 Force Recon from Peleliu and Terawa.

00:06:39.060 That's right.

00:06:39.500 And people should know the Marines have no special forces.

00:06:42.020 They consider themselves special forces.

00:06:43.820 But if you had a special force in the Marine Corps, Force Recon is those Marines, like the Marine Raiders, you go in early.

00:06:50.940 And these were the Force Recon and two of the most horrific battles in American history, every bit as brutal as Normandy.

00:07:00.480 Two amphibious landings in these atoll islands in the Pacific that are legendary when people study history, but particularly in the Corps.

00:07:10.440 At the end of the movie, tell them what the Force Recon said about the young men they'd just seen.

00:07:16.040 Well, the movie ended, and actually there was like dead silence.

00:07:19.540 I thought, God, I mean, were these guys paying attention?

00:07:22.120 I mean, what's going on?

00:07:23.040 And then they really started talking, and they were deeply moved.

00:07:27.320 They were, as you say, among the most moved.

00:07:29.540 And they said they could not do what the young Marines did in Fallujah and Najaf.

00:07:35.480 They said when they got on those islands, if they saw a Jap, as they still call it, they'd kill him. 1.00

00:07:41.660 And if a Japanese guy saw an American, they'd kill him. 1.00

00:07:44.300 Rules of engagement, very simple.

00:07:46.720 To have to deal with the complexity of this kind of warfare, where you see a woman, is she – does she have a suicide vest?

00:07:53.600 Does she have somebody you have to help?

00:07:55.120 Is that guy down the street going to kill you, or is he a civilian that you have to win over? 0.96

00:07:59.920 And you heard –

00:08:00.540 Does the little kid have an IED, or is he just a little kid going down the street?

00:08:04.700 And they have to – and making all these decisions.

00:08:07.680 Scott Cuomo talks about just this idea, you can't shoot in the mosque.

00:08:10.900 You can't do this.

00:08:11.620 You can't do that.

00:08:12.300 You've got to respect the feelings of Shia Islam.

00:08:17.140 These guys, what do they know about Shia and Sunni Islam when they were in high school?

00:08:22.240 The point these guys made is that in World War II, when they hit Tarawa and Peleliu, you know exactly where you're going.

00:08:29.420 You're going to hit the beach.

00:08:30.420 You're not going to back up an inch.

00:08:31.860 You're going to clear-cut everything in front of you.

00:08:33.640 It's all dead.

00:08:34.480 If it moves, it's dead.

00:08:35.600 We don't have any decisions to make other than the fact that we do not go backwards.

00:08:40.600 We go forwards.

00:08:41.760 Whereas in all three segments, all three acts, Fallujah, Najaf, and Fallujah, it's this incredibly complexity of going door-to-door and kicking in doors and clearing houses or watching out for mosques, watching out for religious things.

00:08:54.940 The complexity, the rules of engagement laid on 18- and 19-year-old kids and their leaders who happen to be 21 or 22 years old is almost mind-numbing in its complexity and how in the urban battle space when you have no time at all for decisions, how it eats on people.

00:09:12.280 You can see why they have this concept of PTSD, how it starts to eat on people.

00:09:16.660 Because in Fallujah, in the second Fallujah, it was 250,000 residences or 250,000, I think, locations you had to clear up to a million rooms or something.

00:09:27.380 There's some statistic that's, like, overwhelming.

00:09:29.480 There's something like that, like 200,000 population of Fallujah.

00:09:32.600 Most of them left, but they all had houses, and you had to go street by street, house by house.

00:09:37.480 Yeah, I mean, it's an incredible thing to ask of these people.

00:09:39.900 I mean, of course, that World War II generation is called the greatest generation, but I do not necessarily think that those Marines were greater than the Marines in my film.

00:09:48.560 They told you that.

00:09:49.560 They told me that.

00:09:50.560 That's right.

00:09:51.020 That's the power.

00:09:51.780 The greatest generation said, hey, we don't know if we're as great as these kids.

00:09:55.180 Yeah, that's right.

00:09:55.580 That's the power.

00:09:56.500 Colonel Newsham, Jan Bender, a combat photographer who was on the trigger of his rifle more than he was even on his camera, is going to join us here momentarily.

00:10:08.040 He said something very powerful at the premier.

00:10:11.180 He had been a young guy that had been in the Army first and then was in the Marine Corps.

00:10:16.580 He said about his Marine training, about how do you get ready for this, that what struck him about the Marine Corps is how tradition and custom and history are drilled into you every second of every day that you're a Marine,

00:10:29.900 that you're just imbued with this so that when you come into situations like Najaf and Fallujah, you know what's required of you.

00:10:39.220 You know about Peleliu.

00:10:40.260 You know about Terawai.

00:10:41.160 You know about all the battles all the way back to the revolutionary period and what you stand for.

00:10:45.780 Can you tell us about that?

00:10:47.660 Well, Jan, you're imbued with this idea that you're part of something much bigger than yourself.

00:10:53.560 And it is an organization that regards itself as the finest fighting force ever.

00:10:59.980 That's a pretty good case to be made for that.

00:11:02.240 But as I say, you do feel you're part of the Marine Corps.

00:11:05.800 And when you saw that, you see a crowd of former Marines, say, celebrating the Marine birthday.

00:11:12.740 And these are people, it is a cross-section of American society.

00:11:15.580 And every one of them has that common bond.

00:11:17.840 And it never leaves them.

00:11:19.820 And it does have an effect on you, this sort of training.

00:11:23.620 And if you figure that, say, what happens on the battlefield, half of it's psychological, at least.

00:11:29.700 You can get this psychological strength wherever it comes from and does come from being part of an organization

00:11:36.280 where everybody has met a standard and is ultimately willing to die for you.

00:11:41.300 That that is immensely powerful.

00:11:43.460 And it is something that you really can't overstate, that the psychological aspect of being a Marine.

00:11:51.820 And they do a pretty good job of getting that across.

00:11:54.600 And the Marines that have come before us, everybody is aware of that.

00:11:59.060 And that goes back all the way to 1775.

00:12:01.600 And it really does make a difference.

00:12:04.120 And today's Marines, they are as good as they've ever been.

00:12:09.020 The leadership, of course, I think that's always a challenge.

00:12:13.460 At the top levels.

00:12:14.640 But the raw material, the young Marines, that is as good as it's ever been.

00:12:21.000 Do we have, Posobiec, do we have a clip from Jack's interview earlier in the day?

00:12:25.720 Do we have that?

00:12:27.340 Let's go ahead.

00:12:27.980 I'm going to bring in Posobiec. 0.97

00:12:29.320 I've got Cleo Pascal, Michael Pax here.

00:12:31.540 Do we have the clip?

00:12:32.960 Can we go and play it?

00:12:35.180 If we don't, I'll start with Posobiec.

00:12:36.880 Let's go and play it.

00:12:37.560 When it comes time to fix bayonets and charge, as I once said, the opportunity to give that command, then you fix bayonets and you charge.

00:12:49.260 You're expected to.

00:12:50.380 Wait, you were, hold on a second.

00:12:51.800 You were still using bayonets in 1966.

00:12:55.160 Oh, yeah.

00:12:56.220 That's a great weapon.

00:12:58.120 When it came time to take a position that reinforced battalion and my company going up against it, used every supporting arm I could, artillery, aircraft.

00:13:12.800 So sun is going down.

00:13:15.620 You don't want to attack a position where they know where they are, but you don't know where they are.

00:13:20.480 So I said, there's only one thing you can do is fix bayonets, and when the bayonets went on, it's this amazing resolve that came over the company.

00:13:29.720 It's like, this is as grisly as it's going to get.

00:13:34.080 You know, we're not going to shoot somebody at 300 yards, or we're going to smash or slash or beat to death another human being, and at the end of that, at one end of this rifle, at the other, there's going to be someone alive and someone dead.

00:13:47.940 That was General Riper earlier today.

00:13:52.520 Jack, tell me about that, going fixed bayonets.

00:13:55.620 Well, see, I believe there was actually General Duarte who came in on that one, but talking about the fixed bayonets, I mean, it really gets you, and it was incredible to be in Philadelphia, to be with the Marines, to be with the Vietnam vets who went through this.

00:14:11.120 And I kind of pulled a Steve Bannon there and said, wait a minute, hold on, walk me through this.

00:14:17.060 Bayonets in 1966.

00:14:19.140 And he paints this picture of going up against the communists, and he said, it's not 300 yards, it's not 200 yards, it's the length of a rifle.

00:14:29.120 And at the other end of that rifle, it's another human being, and you're going to get in for the real grisly work.

00:14:34.940 Like, that's what fixed bayonets means.

00:14:37.120 But I thought what was so interesting, in that description, there was a moment he mentioned that when he gave that order, he actually said there was a firm resolve that came over the entire company.

00:14:49.420 That when they put that bayonet to the end of their M-16, they all knew what was coming next, that now was the time that it was going to get grisly.

00:15:01.040 Jack, you had an opportunity today, in kind of the cold and rain, to visit with Ernie Priate and his brothers in arms that gave so much in Vietnam.

00:15:12.940 Talk to me about that, about the KIAs.

00:15:15.580 Of the pamphlet they handed out, it was six or seven pages just of the killed in action in Vietnam from their unit.

00:15:23.660 See, that's right.

00:15:24.400 So we're there with Mike 3-7 Company, and that was seven pages, single-spaced, of the KIA.

00:15:33.520 So you're looking at, and you're talking about some of the most intense fighting in the Tet Offensive, the post-Tet Offensive, where you've got guys, and Steve, not only that, but in the pamphlet, you had the dates next to one another.

00:15:48.300 And you would read that so many of the men had died on the same day, and you realize, well, that's in the same activity, that's in the same action, whether it's an offensive or counter-offensive that they're involved in, or some ambush, some action with the Viet Cong, with the enemy, the NBA, that they were getting involved with.

00:16:10.520 And it's an intensity that I think the average American, certainly in today's day and age, is just not used to.

00:16:18.780 It's an intensity that even, and I had Dan Caldwell on the show today, and he was in Iraq, and he said, Jack, what the Marines went through in Vietnam, it was a magnitude higher than Iraq and Afghanistan, just in terms of the sheer numbers that were involved.

00:16:35.740 And it's part of the history that I think has been kind of lost.

00:16:38.740 Kind of lost, and you zoom out from all of it, that these are the best of us.

00:16:42.940 These are the best men that the United States has to bear.

00:16:46.800 And when we send them overseas, we better darn well know that we're doing it for the right thing and the right reasons. 0.98

00:16:53.680 Because those men were willing, and in this case did, give the last full measure of devotion for their country.

00:16:59.420 That you see, and the ages, they're so young, 18, 19, 20, and to see so many of them who didn't make it back at all, not to mention the ones that came back missing limbs, missing arms.

00:17:12.860 And that's what you saw as well for the Marines that were still there today as a matter of honor and a matter of duty, as the general informed me, to stand there in the place for the men who didn't make it back.

00:17:24.240 Yeah, the double amputees there today were just incredible.

00:17:29.900 Jack, before I let you go, Philadelphia, the pride of a year before the country really comes together as a nation, the Marine Corps is born in Philadelphia on this day 250 years ago.

00:17:42.400 Your thoughts as a native of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.

00:17:47.420 Well, Steve, as the Marines would have it, the United States could only be founded if the United States Marine Corps went in first and secured a perimeter.

00:17:57.000 They went in to secure the perimeter about nine months prior, and then the United States could be founded.

00:18:02.440 And, of course, as the story goes, it was in Tun Tavern right there at Penn's Landing.

00:18:08.260 So William Penn steps off his ship from England 344 years ago, almost 350 years ago today, and about 100 years before the birthplace of the Marines.

00:18:20.700 And they're in this tavern, Tun Tavern, same spot we call Penn's Landing today.

00:18:24.980 And they're all looking around, and earlier that day, the Second Continental Congress had given a – or the First Continental Congress, rather, had given a resolution for two Marine divisions.

00:18:37.160 And they said, we need men who are willing to fight on – to go to sea and fight.

00:18:41.840 And where did they start?

00:18:43.280 The Taverns of Philly.

00:18:44.980 They go into the Taverns of Philly, and they say, we're looking – and the famous line, of course, we're looking for a few good men.

00:18:53.720 Fantastic.

00:18:54.160 Fantastic.

00:18:54.800 Jack, your social media, I know you've got a lot of stories about this.

00:18:57.700 You had great coverage today.

00:18:59.100 Your social media, where do you go?

00:19:03.400 If the United States needs it again, call on the men of Philly, and we'll be there.

00:19:09.080 Amen.

00:19:10.640 Jack Posovic, thank you so much for joining us tonight.

00:19:13.640 God bless, Steve.

00:19:14.240 Thank you so much.

00:19:15.660 Thank you.

00:19:16.200 Great job today.

00:19:17.080 Incredible footage.

00:19:17.900 Cleo Pascal, you've gone throughout the Pacific to talk about the sacrifice of what the 100,000 people are.

00:19:23.900 We lost 100,000 Marines, and we lost 100,000 servicemen.

00:19:26.760 And the vast majority of those Marines that died taking these islands and what we've given up to date.

00:19:32.000 Your thoughts on the 250th birthday of the Corps?

00:19:35.860 Well, just very quickly, to defend the honour of Boston, we were up in Boston for the – on Friday for their 250th, and there were 2,000 Marines at the convention centre going after one piece of cake.

00:19:52.980 It was – I think that the Boston Marines have a lot to say about the Marine Corps today, and that is a city that loves their Marines and has given a lot as well.

00:20:06.640 I think there are several cities in the United States that could go down a similar route, but really, that was quite phenomenal.

00:20:14.040 And today, that little clip at the beginning, that wasn't a recording.

00:20:18.540 That was Marines who had come down to the museum from – they'd come from New York and from Florida.

00:20:26.140 They had driven all the way just to be there with their fellow veterans in order to be able to sing the hymn together on their birthday.

00:20:35.000 And there was the oldest Marine we had – there was a 104-year-old Marine who handed the cake to the youngest Marine, who is a 19-year-old Marine.

00:20:44.180 And that legacy and continuity was incredibly touching.

00:20:48.780 But also there, walking in in time for the 2 p.m. cake cutting, was Sergeant Major Justin LaHue, who you had on the show,

00:20:55.280 who is still very actively involved with history flight and trying to bring home the boys who are all over the Pacific and who are just waiting to be brought back.

00:21:08.940 And as we discussed before with Sergeant Major LaHue, the Chinese are actively trying to make it difficult in places like Tarawa. 1.00

00:21:16.520 So they are still – those men lying in those – on those beaches are still waiting to be relieved.

00:21:26.560 And in the meantime, the Chinese are winning the Second Battle of Tarawa.

00:21:33.800 Terrible.

00:21:34.600 Cleo, where do people – thank you for going to Boston.

00:21:37.380 I saw your footage.

00:21:38.500 It was incredible.

00:21:39.960 What's your social media?

00:21:41.120 Where can people track you down?

00:21:43.180 Today is the Marines' day.

00:21:44.660 So please go to historyflight.com and help Sergeant Major LaHue and all those guys bring home the Americans that are still waiting to come back. 0.98

00:21:55.460 And thanks to Mark Noah as well, who founded History Flight.

00:21:58.840 It's an incredible organization.

00:22:01.580 You know, we followed Sergeant Major LaHue since you introduced us, and I didn't realize until we started talking the other day,

00:22:09.300 and he was showing me some footage going down.

00:22:10.860 And I said, can you tell your crew – I love the shot.

00:22:15.140 Can we get rid of everything?

00:22:16.000 He goes, I am the crew.

00:22:17.160 He turns around.

00:22:18.160 Of course, being a Marine, he's carrying the entire thing on his back.

00:22:21.660 It's pretty extraordinary.

00:22:24.100 Colonel Newsom, where do people go to get your book, When China Attacks, and all your other writings, sir?

00:22:31.080 Well, you'll find When China Attacks on Amazon.com.

00:22:34.300 That's the easiest, and everything I write is at grantnewsham.com or grantnewsham.com at Center for Security Policy.

00:22:42.180 And the X is at Neusham Grant.

00:22:47.100 Colonel, thank you so much for joining us today.

00:22:49.600 250th birthday of the United States Marine Corps.

00:22:51.640 Thank you, sir.

00:22:53.140 Sure.

00:22:53.520 Glad to be here.

00:22:54.160 Thank you.

00:22:55.360 The tradition continues.

00:22:56.840 Talk to me.

00:22:57.260 You made this film on battles that were fought – because we put it out in 2006.

00:23:02.700 The battles were fought –

00:23:04.100 2004.

00:23:04.940 2004.

00:23:06.260 So it's 21 years ago.

00:23:09.040 Yes, 21 years ago.

00:23:10.360 20 years ago.

00:23:11.140 But in 2021, in August, in the leaving of Afghanistan, you have another story of the Marine Corps.

00:23:18.160 What do you have?

00:23:18.800 That's right.

00:23:19.200 We're doing it – we're now doing a series of short documentaries with the Wall Street Journal with our new company, Palladium Pictures.

00:23:26.020 We've done two.

00:23:27.320 We have three in the hopper.

00:23:28.980 And one of them is about withdrawal from Afghanistan from the time that Joe Biden announced we're going to zero in April to the final withdrawal at the end of August.

00:23:40.200 So unlike the last 600 meters, we do look at how it happened and why and who made those decisions.

00:23:45.380 But it begins and ends with the bombing at Abbey Gate.

00:23:50.380 And I think we should remember those Marines, the ones that died there, surely.

00:23:55.580 But also we asked these young Marines at the gates, at Abbey Gates and at the airport, at Harman Kazai International Airport, to really do something, I think, even harder than what the Marines did in Najaf and Fallujah.

00:24:08.300 They had to man these gates while all these Afghans crowded, begging to get on. 1.00

00:24:14.200 They were standing in sewage.

00:24:16.200 They were throwing their children over barbed wire, over razor wire.

00:24:20.400 And these Marines were having to stand at the gates.

00:24:22.140 There was a panic, a herd that was trying to get out because only death awaited them, death or torture awaited them if they were left behind.

00:24:29.880 That's right.

00:24:30.440 And because the State Department could not provide enough consul officers, the Marines had to decide.

00:24:34.340 They were at the gates.

00:24:35.820 And for one thing, they would have to decide who to admit.

00:24:38.940 And the State Department kept giving them conflicting opinions.

00:24:40.940 Eighteen-year-old kids making the decision of life and death.

00:24:43.360 That's right.

00:24:44.140 And so there were times when they would have to take women and children back out of the gate to be surely executed by the Taliban.

00:24:54.760 And to ask young people to do that, to have to decide, make this sort of Sophie's Choice kind of decision, bring some people in, and then take some people they knew should be in and let them out to be killed is a horrible thing.

00:25:08.200 It's not even ordinary combat.

00:25:10.220 You know, these people suffer from what they call moral injury, a term I had not heard, which means participating in something that runs against your values, participating or witnessing.

00:25:19.900 And that's even harder to deal with, I think, psychologically than PTSD.

00:25:24.720 And it's a spiritual crisis for them.

00:25:27.080 It's something no soldier or Marine should ever be asked to do.

00:25:30.420 And they stood there and they did it.

00:25:32.220 And I don't think they get the credit that they deserve for having to do that day after day in that kind of crisis, especially at this 250-year-old.

00:25:40.500 Hang on.

00:25:40.760 Let me get back to you in a second.

00:25:42.000 I thought Jack Posobiec.

00:25:43.640 Oh, Jan.

00:25:44.440 Yeah, but we're going to take him in the next block after that.

00:25:47.860 When does this film come out?

00:25:49.100 It'll be out next year.

00:25:50.560 We're editing it now.

00:25:51.980 It'll be out sometime next year.

00:25:53.640 Okay.

00:25:53.900 It'll be on the website.

00:25:54.500 You know, the story's never been told about, because you think they're just the gay guards.

00:25:59.060 Yeah, that's right.

00:25:59.480 The story's never told that those young people, those young Marines, were tasked with also making the decision of life and death of others, not just, not worried, just don't be worried about yourself.

00:26:09.920 You've got to make the decision for these other people, too.

00:26:11.840 It's too much to ask.

00:26:13.940 Do you get, do you have, do you have some of the Marines that have survived?

00:26:17.040 Are you going to be able to do interviews with them?

00:26:18.240 We have one, Joe Laud, who has actually started the foundation to support these Abbey Gate Marines, which I think is great.

00:26:24.780 I hope you put it up and people contribute.

00:26:26.240 Oh, we'd love to have more.

00:26:27.460 And we would like to have more.

00:26:28.720 If there are other Abbey Gate Marines out there that want to be on our film, I hope they contact us.

00:26:33.060 But Joe Laud, he's very eloquent.

00:26:35.100 He talks about it.

00:26:36.120 And really, these people that were at the gates doing this, they deserve some kind of accommodation.

00:26:41.600 It's not quite, you know, I don't think the Marine Corps has done enough for them.

00:26:45.340 Oh, no.

00:26:46.740 In fact, talk about eloquent.

00:26:48.640 We're going to have Jan Bender on from the movie The Last 600 Meters.

00:26:54.320 And his talk, his discussion after the film last week was two weeks ago.

00:26:58.440 It was quite powerful.

00:26:59.160 Short commercial break.

00:27:00.600 The Last 600 Meters premieres tonight, 10 p.m. Eastern Standard Time on PBS.

00:27:05.480 Short commercial break.

00:27:06.280 Back in the warm in just a moment.

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00:31:10.900 We come up, and we're right beside this house, and we're looking down the street,

00:31:27.020 and I think we were just kind of getting our wits about us.

00:31:30.920 And this fireball just explodes right beside us.

00:31:33.740 It was like a sledgehammer to the chest, and boom, hit this wall.

00:31:39.900 And I remember kind of shaking my head, and, of course, you can't hear anything.

00:31:44.320 You got these guys yelling, and it goes from, hey, Marine, get over here, to, whoa, whoa, whoa.

00:31:48.900 Like, you can't, guys are yelling, and you just can't hear it because your head's wrung.

00:31:52.440 And we didn't understand what had happened.

00:31:54.220 We thought, you know, a car exploded or whatever it was.

00:31:57.300 And as we pull guys back into this courtyard, and we clear the first house we were in,

00:32:02.060 you know, our staff sergeant tells us that was a tank.

00:32:04.460 And we'd never, personally, I'd never been that close to the tank when it fired,

00:32:07.500 and we were probably less than six feet from the front of an Abrams main gun.

00:32:11.580 And it thumped.

00:32:12.660 You know, it rung all our bells.

00:32:15.220 Pacamo and I are looking over some paperwork in one of these rooms,

00:32:17.740 and I'm kind of, he's right in front of me, and we're close, you know,

00:32:21.380 we're kind of face-to-face looking over this stuff and trying to read.

00:32:24.400 And out of the corner of my eye, I basically see an Iraqi man, you know,

00:32:29.760 we called it a man dress, but the average attire for an Iraqi guy

00:32:33.700 is basically a floor-length dress shirt, you know.

00:32:38.040 And he's got the rag around the top of his head or whatever, 0.87

00:32:43.940 and he comes in and just instinctively, you know,

00:32:46.280 you've been in this environment and this mindset for so long

00:32:48.840 that that means danger, that means death in a lot of circumstances.

00:32:53.040 And, you know, like I said, it was out of the corner of my eye,

00:32:55.740 and I didn't really want to allure him to the fact that I knew he was there,

00:32:58.980 but I just draw fast.

00:33:01.260 I got my 9mm right here, and I pull, aim in,

00:33:04.340 and I'm half-squeezed on this trigger.

00:33:05.700 I mean, I am, in my mind, he's already dead, and it's BOLOF. 0.76

00:33:09.940 And he'd thrown this Iraqi attire on thinking it was funny, 1.00

00:33:13.260 and it really was not funny, especially when you're inside the city of Fallujah.

00:33:18.620 So he got a body slam for that one, and I don't know.

00:33:22.660 He just wasn't a very deep thinker, I guess.

00:33:26.000 So, Michael, when you were kind of accused by PBS of maybe curating,

00:33:30.740 either having actors or curating people who were perfect,

00:33:34.220 the combat photographer, Jan Bender, is so extraordinary in this film

00:33:40.480 of his way to describe description.

00:33:43.280 It's incredible.

00:33:43.900 When you started interviewing him, we're going to have him here in a second.

00:33:46.440 When you started interviewing him, did you realize you had struck gold as a filmmaker?

00:33:50.340 I did.

00:33:50.960 I mean, he had great footage, and he was great.

00:33:55.740 I mean, you could see how articulate he is.

00:33:57.440 He was just describing standing next to a tank going off.

00:34:03.500 I mean, you feel like you're there.

00:34:06.500 I did feel like I struck gold.

00:34:08.600 And, you know, as I said about Scott Cuomo, now he's 17 years older.

00:34:12.960 He's still articulate, but you could see how young he is there.

00:34:16.080 And the story of BOLOF shows you they're horsing around because they're kids.

00:34:21.620 They're like high school kids.

00:34:23.500 And you could do something stupid, and it almost happened there.

00:34:27.680 But that lets you see that it's not all, you know, shooting.

00:34:32.500 They're dealing with, you know, there's downtime.

00:34:35.960 There's horsing around. 1.00

00:34:36.940 There's some mixture of things.

00:34:38.260 The issues of growing up and learning how to be a man.

00:34:40.120 That's right, learning how to be a man.

00:34:41.620 Jan Bender joins us.

00:34:43.180 Jan, so your task and purpose was to be a combat photographer.

00:34:47.580 You were tasked by the Marine Corps as a Marine to capture what it was like to be in Fallujah.

00:34:54.100 But in the very first moment we see you, you're coming out of a back of a half track or a thing,

00:34:59.380 and you're saying, hey, you know, I had my rifle up.

00:35:02.220 I didn't get a lot of great footage that day because I was on the trigger.

00:35:04.840 Tell us about Fallujah and your experience, sir.

00:35:08.340 Yeah, Steve.

00:35:10.280 Thanks for telling our story, Michael.

00:35:11.920 Thanks for capturing it.

00:35:13.720 Can you hear me there, Steve?

00:35:15.560 Yeah, it's perfect.

00:35:16.400 Perfect.

00:35:17.820 Yeah, so, you know, my role in the Marine Corps was to serve as a combat correspondent.

00:35:23.300 So, you know, I've heard you talk with others about the power of the Marine Corps,

00:35:28.000 what sets it apart as a branch.

00:35:30.200 One of the tenets and foundations is that every Marine is a rifleman first.

00:35:34.640 And so, as a combat correspondent, you have that skill set in addition to that.

00:35:39.100 But you're carrying, you know, a long rifle and a pistol along with whatever video or camera equipment

00:35:44.760 you might be assigned.

00:35:46.500 And in the fight, in the push to Fallujah, I was a videographer.

00:35:50.860 And so, but in that circumstance, you know, anytime you're a part of a team,

00:35:55.980 especially in a tense circumstance like this, you know,

00:35:58.820 what's first on your mind is to be an asset and not a liability.

00:36:03.740 And so you've got to be able to pull weight and contribute to the fight.

00:36:07.560 But at the same time, understand when and where you can capture the story without putting yourself

00:36:12.880 or your buddy's at risk.

00:36:14.360 And so it's a bit of a delicate balance.

00:36:18.600 But, yeah, it keeps you on point and paying attention.

00:36:24.580 Jan, in Fallujah, you know, there had been a gap between the first battle and the second

00:36:29.240 when all the Chechians and the worst elements of the world, the civilians left, 1.00

00:36:34.000 but the worst elements of the world came there and you guys had to go through the entire city.

00:36:38.940 Talk to us about that, the intensity of, because this is an environment unlike maybe the Tet Offensive,

00:36:45.540 maybe in Way City we had fought a little bit like that, but it had been since Way that,

00:36:51.000 and so you're talking about Marines that would go back to the 60s, right, to the Tet Offensive.

00:36:57.480 That's many decades.

00:36:59.600 How did you guys, how were you guys ready for this type of intense urban combat?

00:37:03.280 Well, I think, you know, we trained for that type of fighting.

00:37:11.720 Now, that intensity and that longevity, I don't know that there's any training you can duplicate

00:37:16.740 to mimic that kind of intensity, you know, for weeks on end, door after door, house after house,

00:37:24.200 rooftop after rooftop, street after street.

00:37:26.060 It's a lot.

00:37:27.440 But I can tell you in my work as a combat correspondent leading up to that time, I'd been in country.

00:37:35.120 So 3rd Battalion, 1st Marines was the unit I was with, India Company specifically.

00:37:40.540 They'd been in country for four to five months at that time.

00:37:44.740 I'd been in country for about two months, and I'd done a number of operations with them

00:37:49.700 in and around the suburbs, you might call it, or the satellite villages of Fallujah,

00:37:54.140 doing shaping and feint operations.

00:37:57.720 Prepping for the big fight in the city.

00:38:00.360 And I'd also been with a number of other battalions.

00:38:03.080 And I could tell you that 3rd Battalion, 1st Marines, having been longest in country at the time

00:38:07.080 and the most entangled with the enemy, they already had skin in the game.

00:38:13.500 You know, they had not been, they had not pushed through the streets of Fallujah,

00:38:17.520 but they'd been on the perimeter of it, and they'd taken a lot of losses, you know.

00:38:23.320 Over 10 Marines were killed outside the city before we even pushed in.

00:38:26.660 So they were bloodied as a team, and they were ready to push into the hornet's nest

00:38:32.280 and give what they had gotten, you know, and meet the insurgents in the safe haven

00:38:37.800 that they'd been drawing strength from and coming out outside of the city to attack us

00:38:44.000 on patrols and in our afforded operating bases.

00:38:46.380 So I think the psychology of having been in a counterinsurgency fight, you know, death by 1,000 scratches were cuts.

00:38:58.180 The tension, you know, the area was thick with the need for a reckoning.

00:39:05.600 So I think that at the end of the day, when you look at the tenacity

00:39:10.160 and the level of violence that was unleashed inside the city,

00:39:17.560 a lot of it was built up over the months preceding that.

00:39:20.400 Piano makes a very, you know, dramatic comment about three-quarters of the way of the film after he's been shot.

00:39:30.760 He was talking to, I think, a lieutenant.

00:39:32.320 He talked about if you're fighting an enemy that doesn't mind dying, how are you supposed to beat him?

00:39:37.960 What are your thoughts on that?

00:39:39.200 No, he nailed it.

00:39:43.120 And I think that, you know, we'd seen elements of that prior to getting in the city.

00:39:48.240 You know, any time you're up against suicide bombers,

00:39:50.800 and there was an elevating trend across the Ambar province

00:39:54.700 with suicide vest and vehicle-borne suicide bombers hitting our forward operating bases.

00:40:02.980 So we'd had taste of that.

00:40:04.520 But to be in the same streets and potentially in the same houses

00:40:09.620 with that same fanatic mindset is pretty daunting.

00:40:14.620 And I think when we saw, you know, a few blocks into the city,

00:40:20.420 a few days into the city as we started to press them, as Colonel Buell talks about in the film,

00:40:25.060 into the Queens area of Fallujah,

00:40:28.680 and a lot of your hardened fighters set their feet and knew that this would be their last stand.

00:40:35.200 And their goal was to take as many, you know, Westerners with them as they could. 0.71

00:40:39.540 Our tactics had to change as well.

00:40:41.480 And Colonel Buell will tell you that, you know, we got orders from the top down.

00:40:46.380 We should not be sending Marines into houses that we haven't already sent. 0.96

00:40:49.780 Shoulder fire rockets, satchel charges, tank rounds, you know, whatever we've got,

00:40:55.980 we should be softening the targets with them before we send in young Marines.

00:41:00.800 And in the midst of the shock and while the smoke is still rolling, we go in and mop things up.

00:41:07.960 But that's, your tactics have to evolve in the face of that.

00:41:11.480 When there is no surrender, when there is no, you know, willingness to go toe-to-toe.

00:41:19.120 So, you shifted quite quickly in the film.

00:41:22.600 This was not a mop-up operation.

00:41:24.620 You guys turned out, looked like most of you were the tip of the spear, right? 0.90

00:41:28.280 You did have tanks and artillery and it, you know, sometimes had aircraft over and above.

00:41:33.760 But you guys were going door-to-door, correct?

00:41:36.420 And kicking down the doors and clearing the rooms room by room.

00:41:39.940 Yeah, 100%.

00:41:41.920 100%.

00:41:42.740 But, you know, when we knew, when we knew that there was resistance in a house, undoubtedly,

00:41:48.520 like AKs over the top of the roof, you know, clear signs that there was an enemy in a house,

00:41:55.620 we did what we needed to do to soften that building before pushing Marines to the door.

00:42:01.340 But you can't see them all.

00:42:02.680 Yeah, so in Hell House, where you weren't out there, they were stuck because Marines were already pinned.

00:42:11.120 So there's no possibility of hitting it with a tank round, right?

00:42:14.740 You have to go on yourself.

00:42:16.740 Jan, you tell this, people have seen, right, you know, war movies, etc.

00:42:21.400 But you made a comment pretty early on in your interview that when you first got there, you were the new guy, right?

00:42:29.520 Historically in the movies, the new guy gets it first.

00:42:31.720 Talk to me about that when you first joined up as the new guy, about to go into pretty intense combat.

00:42:38.680 Yeah, so the nature of my job as a combat correspondent, and not unique to me, it's the, you know, the skill set as a whole.

00:42:46.520 You typically drop into units just before things get interesting.

00:42:51.300 And that's exciting, it's fun, but you become somewhat of a bad luck charm.

00:42:56.160 And it's important to integrate with your team and understand how they move and flow and communicate so that you can, again, be an asset, not a liability.

00:43:08.760 And you know from experiences you've had in life, you know, the last thing you want to do in the midst of a high-intensity situation is change things up.

00:43:19.340 You know, hand somebody a new tool or, you know, change the plan last minute.

00:43:23.620 And so these Marines are trained to fight in their teams the way they're constructed and throwing the new guy in can sometimes create interesting scenarios.

00:43:33.860 But I was really blessed in the sense that I had been out with 3rd Battalion, 1st Marines before.

00:43:38.840 I knew a number of Marines that I ended up in the same squad and fire team as.

00:43:42.180 And so I was able to integrate quickly.

00:43:45.260 I think initially, you know, there would have been a belief that transitioning from, you know, the fire team that I stuck, stitched in with to maybe another squad or another battalion might have made sense or another platoon rather in the battalion might have made sense.

00:44:02.360 But it became really clear to me and the team that I was with that this is not the time of changing thing.

00:44:08.500 There's too many moving pieces.

00:44:10.140 There's too many external threats.

00:44:11.960 We've got to lock in, lock and load with what we've got and clean together to get it done.

00:44:19.320 What did you learn about yourself in this fight?

00:44:21.960 Yeah, I think, you know, it may sound cliche, but in the midst of, you know, when you face your mortality, it has a clarifying effect.

00:44:42.600 And so I definitely forged a deeper relationship with God and the men around me.

00:44:55.320 I think you, you know, nothing bonds like shared suffering or sacrifice for a common cause.

00:45:01.180 And between that, that reality and the reality that you'll never feel more alive than when you're that close to dying, those things have a clarifying effect and serve to energize you with purpose and clarity.

00:45:19.960 So I, leaving the city, I, one, was overwhelmed with a sense of gratitude and love for gratitude that I made it through, you know, physically unscathed, which was pretty rare in that group of Marines.

00:45:37.520 And also bonded to the men around me and just a great admiration for, um, their courage and tenacity and their unwillingness to quit.

00:45:53.120 Um, so that incredible experience, uh, that I, you know, forever grateful for and changed by.

00:46:05.820 Uh, Jan, do you have, uh,

00:46:07.520 Uh, social media, is there any way people can keep up with you or get your coordinates now or a website?

00:46:13.760 Yeah, I keep a pretty low profile.

00:46:16.600 Not, not really out there.

00:46:19.820 Fantastic.

00:46:21.000 Jan, Jan Bender, looking forward tonight, 10 o'clock, uh, the national premiere of, uh, the last 600 meters.

00:46:27.140 And, uh, I'd look forward to the whole country to see, uh, about you guys and what you guys accomplished.

00:46:32.240 Your task and your purpose.

00:46:34.920 Yes, sir.

00:46:35.500 Thanks for telling our story.

00:46:37.080 Michael, you too.

00:46:39.420 Good to talk to you, John, as ever.

00:46:41.280 Thank you, sir.

00:46:41.860 So articulate.

00:46:44.140 Thoughts tonight.

00:46:44.840 17 years, 17 years in the process.

00:46:47.700 And I, I will say this after seeing it on the big screen, because I haven't seen it probably in over a decade on the big screen with the sound and everything like that from when we first started taking it around and showing it to Marines.

00:46:58.680 Um, as bloody as it is, as awful as it is in the situation, I don't think, and this is what the generals told us first.

00:47:06.640 I don't think you could have a better recruiting film for the Marine Corps.

00:47:10.660 Well, these guys, I mean, you can see why PBS did think I was central casting.

00:47:16.480 You know, these guys, like Jan, are incredibly articulate and Scott Cuomo.

00:47:21.320 And they happen to be normal U.S. Marines.

00:47:24.000 And when you see them so young in the film, not that they're not still great, but, you know, you see them as young people and speaking from their heart.

00:47:31.420 And it's a, it's a pretty, I was, I had not seen it on a big screen myself in a long time.

00:47:36.160 I, too, was impressed.

00:47:38.120 I mean, we, we tell their stories.

00:47:40.020 The strength is really their footage, their stories.

00:47:42.800 And it's, they're, they're really pretty, they're incredibly moving.

00:47:47.120 And it was a privilege to tell them.

00:47:49.040 And I, I think we captured an important moment of history 10 years from now, 17 years from now.

00:47:54.740 When people want to think about these battles, and I hope they do.

00:47:57.800 They, they, they hope they look at this film and see what the young men, and it was all men and one woman, you know, did.

00:48:05.880 And she was amazing.

00:48:07.060 She was amazing.

00:48:07.600 She's amazing.

00:48:08.380 And beautiful.

00:48:08.940 We're not, beautiful.

00:48:09.700 We're not going to tell.

00:48:10.300 She's like a movie star, comes in the middle of this thing as a guardian angel.

00:48:13.900 Yes.

00:48:14.300 Right?

00:48:14.600 She's a guardian angel.

00:48:15.780 It's incredible.

00:48:16.640 Basher.

00:48:17.220 Basher.

00:48:17.840 Um, the, I want to talk about Courage Before I Leave and you.

00:48:24.100 Um, people may not know this.

00:48:26.340 If you haven't seen when Michael's been on before, you were absolutely brutalized.

00:48:31.320 President Trump selected you to be the head of the global broadcasting facility, something

00:48:36.920 that Carrie Lake is trying to take apart now. 1.00

00:48:38.700 It's not just Voice America, but all of it.

00:48:40.700 And you were by far the best pick.

00:48:42.640 You were somebody that had a reputation in the conservative movement of being a fabulous

00:48:47.560 filmmaker such that now you're partnering with the Wall Street Journal.

00:48:50.280 I mean, the quality of the stuff you see from this and all your other stuff and particularly

00:48:54.860 the Brickover movie we made, which I love.

00:48:57.800 Um, and they tortured you for three years and tried to destroy you for three years publicly,

00:49:03.280 not just humiliate you, but break you. 0.55

00:49:05.700 I got about two minutes here before we go.

00:49:07.340 Tell us about that because you showed tremendous moral courage in not quitting, in not quitting.

00:49:13.060 You could have walked away at any time and said, I'm not going to do this till I'm

00:49:15.480 confirmed.

00:49:16.040 But look, you know, we made, we make this films about these guys like Jan Bender and

00:49:20.140 Scott Cuomo.

00:49:21.180 I should, then I have to, then I fold.

00:49:23.100 I mean, it's, it's, you know, when you're under attack, you either fight back or you

00:49:27.180 fold.

00:49:27.700 And, you know, Steve, you said at the time you didn't think I had it in me and I didn't

00:49:32.320 think I had it in me, but, but, but you were just, I didn't think anybody had it in

00:49:36.720 you.

00:49:37.080 But folks, it was three years.

00:49:39.220 It was three years.

00:49:39.980 And it went on beyond the administration.

00:49:42.740 They still pursue life with you.

00:49:44.060 They still pursue you.

00:49:44.880 They go after your business. 0.94

00:49:46.440 They go after your reputation.

00:49:48.880 It was a horrible thing.

00:49:50.520 And, you know, you can't really get that back.

00:49:53.060 And I'm, you know, but, but, you know, we all survived.

00:49:56.640 Did you not think you had it in you for a minute?

00:49:58.480 I didn't.

00:49:59.220 And neither did my wife, Gina.

00:50:00.660 But, you know, but I wanted to, since we only have two minutes, I do want to mention

00:50:04.640 a more optimistic, upbeat thing.

00:50:07.140 And that is we, because there are too few filmmakers that can make films like the last 600 meters

00:50:13.220 on, on the right.

00:50:14.700 Because it is a craft.

00:50:15.780 It is a craft.

00:50:16.920 And people need training.

00:50:18.200 And there's a vast amount of training and experience if you're on the left and there's not there

00:50:22.280 on the right.

00:50:22.720 We have started this incubator program to train young, right-of-center, non-woke filmmakers.

00:50:28.220 And we give them money to make a short film.

00:50:31.140 And we oversee it.

00:50:32.000 And we executive produce it.

00:50:33.060 And we mentor them.

00:50:34.000 And then we get it distributed.

00:50:35.660 And we've had two classes in already.

00:50:37.820 And we're selecting the third class.

00:50:39.780 It's run by my son, Thomas.

00:50:41.800 And they can go to our website.

00:50:42.720 Who was in diapers when I first met you guys?

00:50:44.500 So where do people go?

00:50:46.280 They go to, for that, they go to palladiumpictures.com.

00:50:49.500 And for the other films, older films, manifoldproductions.com.

00:50:53.640 And my social media.

00:50:54.940 The incubator is palladiumpictures.com.

00:50:56.800 Perfect.

00:50:57.040 Or just click on incubator.

00:50:58.280 And where do people go for all your content, everything social media?

00:51:01.300 They can go to that Manifold site or, I mean, the Palladium site or manifoldproductions.com.

00:51:06.980 My ex-account is michaelpack underscore.

00:51:10.000 But there's more info, really, on the two websites.

00:51:13.180 If I can get Gina to commit to executive produce myself, I may go back and just join the incubator. 0.87

00:51:18.380 No, I may give this up and just say, I want to go back to the incubator and learn and really learn how to make films.

00:51:24.180 You're a hero of mine.

00:51:25.060 And tonight, extraordinary.

00:51:27.260 And tomorrow, it's on Amazon.

00:51:28.540 Finally, we taught Michael Pack how to be an entrepreneur.

00:51:31.620 Oh, they took 17 years.

00:51:33.420 Tomorrow, it's on Amazon, right?

00:51:34.720 Absolutely.

00:51:35.520 The last 600 meters.

00:51:36.760 You will have quite an experience.

00:51:38.000 On the 250th birthday of the United States Marine Corps, what stuns me is you see this film and you realize this organization has been around for 250 years and it gets better every day.

00:51:51.260 It's an amazing organization.

00:51:53.160 Amazing organization.

00:51:54.680 The men's department of the United States Navy.

00:51:56.660 Okay, we'll see you back here at 10 a.m. Eastern Daylight Time.

00:52:00.580 Tomorrow, we'll leave you with the Marine Corps hymn.

00:52:02.180 We'll see you back here at 10 a.m. Eastern Daylight Time.

00:52:22.380 Okay, let's be honest.

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Bannon's War Room - November 11, 2025

WarRoom Battleground EP 888： WarRoom Marines 250 Special： The Last 600 Meters Cont.

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