Bannon's War Room - WarRoom Battleground EP 894： How Hamas Surprised The Most Powerful Military

00:00:00.000 This is the primal scream of a dying regime.

00:00:07.000 Pray for our enemies.

00:00:09.000 Because we're going medieval on these people.

00:00:12.000 I got a free shot at all these networks lying about the people.

00:00:17.000 The people have had a belly full of it.

00:00:19.000 I know you don't like hearing that.

00:00:20.000 I know you try to do everything in the world to stop that,

00:00:22.000 but you're not going to stop it.

00:00:23.000 It's going to happen.

00:00:24.000 And where do people like that go to share the big lie?

00:00:27.000 MAGA Media.

00:00:29.000 I wish in my soul, I wish that any of these people had a conscience.

00:00:34.000 Ask yourself, what is my task and what is my purpose?

00:00:38.000 If that answer is to save my country, this country will be saved.

00:00:44.000 War Room. Here's your host, Stephen K. Bannon.

00:00:53.000 Okay, welcome back.

00:00:54.000 Tuesday, 18 November, Year of the Lord, 2025.

00:00:57.000 Quite a busy day.

00:00:59.000 Also, there's going to be this formal dinner tonight,

00:01:01.000 so Real America's Voice will be covering all of it.

00:01:03.000 Brian Glenn, our White House correspondent.

00:01:05.000 Maybe we'll dip back over there in a while.

00:01:07.000 Yaakov Katz, thank you.

00:01:09.000 Thank you.

00:01:10.000 What brings you to the United States?

00:01:11.000 Here at a conference, General Assembly of Jewish Federations in North America.

00:01:15.000 Were you presenting?

00:01:16.000 Presenting, yes.

00:01:18.000 Okay, so the book is, While Israel Slept, I cannot give a higher recommendation to read,

00:01:24.000 I think, an even-handed yet shocking account of October 7th.

00:01:28.000 What led up to it, the intelligence failures, although you'll see individual stories of heroism and bravery,

00:01:35.000 and then the military part, which we'll get into.

00:01:39.000 When you present this, because, look, you know, I'm not Jewish.

00:01:44.000 Our audience is kind of split.

00:01:47.000 We have a big contingent, very pro-Israel.

00:01:49.000 We have other people who are questioning some of the relationships now.

00:01:53.000 This is, I believe, as an outsider, so brutal in its assessment.

00:01:59.000 Number one, how has the book been received in Israel?

00:02:02.000 I know our audience that bought it from the first time we spent an hour with you have loved it,

00:02:06.000 and I've gotten great feedback.

00:02:07.000 And as I've told people around town, because the details are not really talked about anywhere.

00:02:12.000 The feedback I've gotten is like, how is this not like the number one book that everybody's talking about?

00:02:17.000 What has been the response in Israel?

00:02:19.000 And what has been the response like when you come to a conference like this?

00:02:22.000 Well, I think it depends where.

00:02:24.000 You know, people are still very much intrigued and want to understand what happened

00:02:29.000 and how this very powerful military that I think we all recognize is really one of the most powerful and strong militaries

00:02:35.000 and intelligence apparatuses in the world, how it failed so miserably.

00:02:39.000 Because at the end of the day, Stephen, I think you get this, strategic surprises will always happen.

00:02:44.000 They'll happen again to Israel. 1.00

00:02:46.000 They'll happen here to the United States. 1.00

00:02:47.000 We don't have to go that far back in time, right?

00:02:49.000 September 11th is a perfect example.

00:02:51.000 These things will always happen to countries around the world.

00:02:54.000 And how do we avoid them?

00:02:56.000 How do we prevent them?

00:02:57.000 Or if they happen, how do we identify them happening and know how to provide the right answer and right response immediately

00:03:04.000 so it doesn't spiral into a war, for example, that Israel has been embroiled in now for two years?

00:03:08.000 You're saying go from the strategic, what I love about the book, you go strategic operational level to the tactical level, right?

00:03:13.000 Correct.

00:03:14.000 And you talk about the failures.

00:03:16.000 And as you see, strategic failures can kind of overwhelm you, right?

00:03:20.000 When you're totally caught by surprise and then you've got, you're trying to turn around operationally.

00:03:24.000 And then in the tactical, that's where you see some of the individual heroism of people.

00:03:29.000 And tactical, you'll always see that.

00:03:31.000 I mean, Israeli people are incredible.

00:03:32.000 American people are incredible.

00:03:33.000 People will always stand up if they see something bad happening and they'll go out there and they'll race down to southern Israel, 0.71

00:03:39.000 take a sidearm and go out and try to fight to save people they don't even know.

00:03:43.000 That's the beauty of Israel, right?

00:03:45.000 And that's something that's incredible.

00:03:46.000 But beyond that, and you're asking how it's been received, look, it's still a very painful moment in Israeli history.

00:03:53.000 It's one that while a lot of the people in the military and in the intelligence agencies have been replaced in the government,

00:04:00.000 same government, same ministers, same people who are still in their roles.

00:04:04.000 And now that the war has winded down, there's a lot of talk and a lot of demand of commission of inquiry on a national level

00:04:11.000 that will look into what happened here to get to the bottom of it and study.

00:04:16.000 Let's go.

00:04:17.000 What are your bona fides?

00:04:19.000 This book has been received, particularly at a professional level, as something that's got to be read,

00:04:26.000 given your and your co-authors background.

00:04:29.000 So just give the audience.

00:04:30.000 Both of us are long time journalists.

00:04:32.000 I was been doing this for about 25 years, covered military affairs.

00:04:35.000 Amir, my co-author, continues to cover military affairs in Israel for about 20 years.

00:04:39.000 I was the editor in chief of the Jerusalem Post, one of the daily newspapers,

00:04:42.000 big English language papers in Israel for about eight years, up until two years ago.

00:04:46.000 This is my fourth book.

00:04:47.000 I've written about Israel's bombing of Syria's nuclear reactor back in 2007,

00:04:51.000 what happened in the Bush years.

00:04:53.000 I've written about Israeli military technology.

00:04:55.000 I've written about Iran a lot.

00:04:57.000 Actually here at this conference, I'm at speaking on a panel about Iran and the fear, for example,

00:05:02.000 that the next round is not a question of if, but it's more of a question of when,

00:05:06.000 and that you're hearing from the intelligence folks both here and in Israel.

00:05:10.000 So really been in this space of Israel-US relations and of Israeli military and intelligence operations.

00:05:18.000 So I came up as a kid, as a paper boy, and I remember the 67 war because it was amazing.

00:05:24.000 It had Moshe Dayan.

00:05:25.000 It had all these kind of larger-than-life figures.

00:05:28.000 But the thing that left the impression is that whether it's Mossad or in this case Shin Bet and Amman,

00:05:34.000 Israeli intelligence is world-class and the IDF is a world-class military operation.

00:05:39.000 And so that aspect of it, you never have to worry, right?

00:05:42.000 In fact, they say, hey, and I doubt I'm not a big believer in the greatest ally theory,

00:05:48.000 but part of that is because of the intelligence and the military.

00:05:51.000 The book, what's so shocking about it, takes those two institutions as institutions

00:05:57.000 and really gives you kind of an insider's look of these failures.

00:06:01.000 So let's just summarize the intelligence part for those who weren't with us a couple weeks ago.

00:06:08.000 Just take us through the lead-up and the intelligence failures.

00:06:11.000 And they're pretty dramatic because the intelligence was actually out there, right?

00:06:16.000 And particularly you have these young women that are the first wave.

00:06:18.000 Then you have later they find a report that actually was written two years before

00:06:23.000 that absolutely goes through in detail what they believe Hamas is going to do.

00:06:28.000 So it's not that you didn't have the information, but somehow the system was so bureaucratic that it never got up to

00:06:35.000 and the failure of imagination that Hamas could ever do this caught Israel in those brutal moments

00:06:42.000 from like 3 o'clock in the morning on the 7th.

00:06:45.000 Because a lot of people in the United States don't realize the night before,

00:06:48.000 like starting at 6 p.m., local time, the guys are saying, hey, I think something's going on here, right?

00:06:54.000 And there's an eight-hour debate about what that is.

00:06:57.000 And basically at 3 o'clock in the morning a lot of guys in the Central Command realize, hey, something big is about to happen.

00:07:04.000 So I would split it into three different categories.

00:07:06.000 On the one hand, in the tactical, in that moment, in the 24, 36 hours preceding, there were alarms going off and indications.

00:07:13.000 They were uncovering rocket launchers. They were preparing Hamas. 0.87

00:07:16.000 They were preparing their underground bunker systems, tunnel networks for their top commanders.

00:07:20.000 There was things going on with their communications that Israel was picking up on.

00:07:24.000 All of that was information that was flowing in in real time.

00:07:28.000 Some of it was getting caught in bureaucracy, was not moving from one agency to the next.

00:07:32.000 That's always going to be a problem in the worlds of intelligence, as you know.

00:07:35.000 But that was there. That's level one.

00:07:38.000 Level one. And that was misinterpreted. Israel was in a debate, the commanders on the ground.

00:07:43.000 In real time.

00:07:44.000 In real time.

00:07:45.000 Is this a drill or is this an attack?

00:07:47.000 That's what they were not sure about.

00:07:48.000 And the tension is, if it's a drill, we can't be too quick to respond because then they'll know all the intelligence we have.

00:07:54.000 We'll tip them off that we know.

00:07:57.000 It's the Coventry in England situation where you have the code system, ultra, the cold breaker, and you got to let this town be bombed.

00:08:05.000 Otherwise, you'd let the Luftwaffe know you had their bombing schedule.

00:08:08.000 Right. So you will know that they'll be they'll know that, you know, and then they'll reverse engineer.

00:08:12.000 How did you find out?

00:08:13.000 Or they'll think that you're doing something and they're they're just planning a drill.

00:08:17.000 But now because they see you doing something, they might actually attack.

00:08:20.000 So why instigate it?

00:08:21.000 So that's the debate throughout the night.

00:08:23.000 The second layer, which goes back a few months, is those women soldiers and others who are seeing things happening on the ground, the surveillance people who watch Gaza, watch the border, seeing training, seeing more senior Hamas commanders come near the border.

00:08:37.000 And they're shut down by their commanders who say, listen, you don't get it.

00:08:40.000 The Hamas does not want war.

00:08:42.000 You're misunderstanding.

00:08:43.000 And then the third is going back even further in time was this report called Jericho Walls, a reference to the biblical walls of Jericho that came tumbling down.

00:08:52.000 Tell about the report, that report, because it comes about halfway through the book.

00:08:55.000 Yeah, it was written by just intelligence analysts who saw what was actually 21 or 22 and saw what was happening and said, basically outlined one to one, Steve, what was going to happen.

00:09:08.000 And they call the Jericho walls because they looked at the barrier that we had erected along Gaza and said it could come tumbling down like ancient biblical Jericho came tumbling down if we're not prepared.

00:09:20.000 And this report also stuck in a drawer somewhere.

00:09:23.000 The Israeli defense minister only finds out about it about a month or two into the war that there was even such a report.

00:09:28.000 How come he didn't see it on day one in his job?

00:09:32.000 So really, when you look at all of that, you have to ask yourself a bigger question.

00:09:36.000 How could they misunderstand this?

00:09:38.000 How could they not imagine what was possible?

00:09:40.000 Hamas is a known enemy. 0.98

00:09:42.000 It's a jihadist, genocidal terrorist group. 0.74

00:09:44.000 We fought with them multiple wars over the years.

00:09:47.000 Why did we think that this could not happen?

00:09:50.000 And that speaks to a deeper issue for a country when it gets caught up in a belief system that its enemy, A, is not capable of doing something, or B, its enemy is deterred.

00:10:02.000 Is it hubris?

00:10:03.000 I think it's a mix of hubris on the one hand.

00:10:06.000 They can't surprise us.

00:10:08.000 We know everything.

00:10:09.000 We're more powerful.

00:10:10.000 But it's also something else, and this is a weakness and a strength that Israel has. 0.99

00:10:14.000 Israel is a country that is a Western nation.

00:10:17.000 It's a country that has its trade and cultural ties with the United States, with Europe.

00:10:22.000 It looks to the West.

00:10:23.000 It wants to be like the rest of the Western world.

00:10:26.000 And that puts it into this frame of mind.

00:10:29.000 Kick the can down the road.

00:10:31.000 Don't deal with it.

00:10:32.000 If you can avoid the war, avoid the war. 0.96

00:10:35.000 Look, you talk about this.

00:10:36.000 You mean bureaucratically and socially.

00:10:37.000 Yeah, but you know, appeasement also to some extent.

00:10:39.000 Yes.

00:10:40.000 If there's a way to buy off your enemy as opposed to confront your enemy, go that route first, because we just want to have a good life.

00:10:47.000 The problem is Israel is in a region and a neighborhood that you can't just have a good life. 0.68

00:10:53.000 How much is, when you read this, how much, and you're the technology guy, how much is it the belief that we're so far technologically superior?

00:11:02.000 Because here, one of the first things in the evening at six o'clock, you have a surveillance system that's even the name of it's classified.

00:11:09.000 So you don't go into a lot of detail.

00:11:11.000 That system went down and people are arguing, hey, that's either been taken down and a guy said it's got glitches in it.

00:11:18.000 But there was, you could tell from the institutional response, you depended a lot on technology.

00:11:23.000 Yes.

00:11:24.000 You thought you were so technologically superior and had such a detailed surveillance system, nothing can happen.

00:11:29.000 There at the strategic level was a belief that it looks like so much of the focus had been on Tehran, that not just Hezbollah and the proxies, but that the regime itself and a lot of the strategic resources or time and focus was on the Persian situation versus the wolf that happened to be at the door.

00:11:50.000 How much did that go into it?

00:11:52.000 Technology is a huge piece of it.

00:11:53.000 You know, we had Iron Dome, Arrow, David Sling, multi-layered missile defense technology.

00:11:58.000 So they're missiles.

00:11:59.000 They can lob them at us. 0.99

00:12:00.000 We can shoot them out of the sky. 0.97

00:12:02.000 They don't, they're not an issue. 0.99

00:12:03.000 They try to tunnel into Israel.

00:12:05.000 We'll build an underground tunnel and sensors to detect when they're digging tunnels.

00:12:09.000 We'll build a multi-layered barrier to stop them. 0.62

00:12:12.000 The technology also in the SIGINT and signal intelligence, we can listen to all their conversations.

00:12:17.000 So we don't need to have human assets on the ground inside Gaza.

00:12:20.000 Why waste your time in cultivating an asset and having an informant?

00:12:24.000 But Steve, thousands of people ended up crossing the border.

00:12:27.000 Not one could pick up the phone and call their Israeli handler and say, listen, this is in the works.

00:12:32.000 Get ready.

00:12:33.000 Because we didn't have those assets.

00:12:35.000 You can't just rely on technology.

00:12:37.000 And I think that's a big wake up call.

00:12:39.000 This is the reality.

00:12:40.000 Because one thing that jumps off here, you think, being a Westerner, that whether it's

00:12:44.000 Mossad or Shin Bet or Amman, whoever it is, that half of Gaza's on the payroll.

00:12:48.000 That you have human intelligence.

00:12:50.000 The thing that's so shocking here, there's no real ever human intelligence even for verification

00:12:55.000 of what's going on.

00:12:56.000 Is that because the reliance on technology made human intelligence like a thing from a

00:13:01.000 James Bond novel?

00:13:02.000 Well, Israel, A pulls out of Gaza in 2005, 20 years ago.

00:13:05.000 So it doesn't have boots on the ground.

00:13:07.000 You don't have boots on the ground.

00:13:09.000 Harder to have intelligence, human assets to be able to manage and cultivate.

00:13:13.000 That's always going to be a challenge.

00:13:15.000 But you're able to do it, for example, in Iran.

00:13:17.000 You're able to do it in Lebanon with Hezbollah. 0.99

00:13:19.000 Here it was, okay, we don't have the boots on the ground.

00:13:21.000 Why invest the resources when we actually have the technology that can fill the gap, right?

00:13:26.000 And that's a problem.

00:13:27.000 I mean, we see this with the United States as well in so many different spheres of operations

00:13:32.000 where they also, the American intelligence community, is putting much more of an emphasis on the technology

00:13:39.000 as opposed to on the old school, you know, the guys in the trench coat standing on a street corner

00:13:43.000 and trying to get a source, get an agent, someone on the inside who can give them information.

00:13:48.000 Do you think the entire West is too dependent upon technology now, particularly surveillance technology,

00:13:52.000 that it's a problem everywhere?

00:13:54.000 Do you believe we have these kinds of problems that we could get caught as bad as 9-11?

00:14:00.000 100%, Steve.

00:14:01.000 Look, everyone, I mean, we have satellites, we have drones,

00:14:05.000 we have systems that can listen to our phones and intercept our emails.

00:14:09.000 It makes you feel almost that you can get into someone's head.

00:14:12.000 It makes you feel that you know everything about someone.

00:14:14.000 But here's the honest truth, the brutal truth.

00:14:16.000 As much as you might think you know, you don't know what's really going on.

00:14:20.000 And if they also can assess that you're listening and seeing everything,

00:14:25.000 they're going to come up with other ways to communicate that are old school or offline.

00:14:30.000 And they can plan this.

00:14:31.000 And that's exactly what we saw happen here.

00:14:33.000 Right.

00:14:34.000 Let's talk.

00:14:35.000 OK, so we get to the three o'clock in the morning and the attack comes by three o'clock a.m.

00:14:40.000 Everybody's kind of on alert.

00:14:42.000 You basically put the nation on alert militarily and militarily.

00:14:45.000 I mean, the nation's still sleeping militarily.

00:14:47.000 But you guys know something was up.

00:14:49.000 They know something's happening.

00:14:50.000 They're waiting to see what's going to happen.

00:14:52.000 You got the head of the Shin Bet.

00:14:53.000 That agency sends some.

00:14:54.000 And you can't tip it because if it's not happening,

00:14:57.000 you don't want to give away the fact that you know what's going on.

00:14:59.000 Correct. So they're waiting.

00:15:00.000 629, the rockets start firing into Israel.

00:15:03.000 And right away, head of the Shin Bet, for example,

00:15:06.000 calls the commander of the IDF of the Israel Defense Forces and says,

00:15:09.000 they're going to kidnap people.

00:15:11.000 You got to work to prevent that.

00:15:12.000 And unfortunately, the tragedy comes.

00:15:15.000 They kidnap 251 people.

00:15:17.000 They murder 1,200 people.

00:15:18.000 Right out of the box.

00:15:19.000 Pretty much out of the box.

00:15:20.000 Let's go through the hour.

00:15:21.000 Let's go through the hour because what happens then?

00:15:23.000 Why?

00:15:24.000 One of the other questions here besides the intelligence, the IDF is kind of legendary.

00:15:29.000 Right.

00:15:30.000 Why did it take the IDF?

00:15:31.000 I mean, so many of the heroes here are old school.

00:15:36.000 IDF guys have fought in previous wars or older guys are just hearing this.

00:15:39.000 And they're getting in the cars and driving down with whatever weapon they could grab. 0.98

00:15:43.000 And and they're going to kill some, you know, they're going to shoot some bad guys. 0.92

00:15:47.000 But the institutional, you know, you got the strategic, the operational tactical.

00:15:51.000 Why did it take so long for the tactical operational piece to kick in to have a more organized response?

00:15:57.000 This was probably right.

00:15:59.000 That's basically.

00:16:00.000 No, it's a great.

00:16:01.000 This is this is one of the more painful questions and issues that come up here because, OK, they'll try to invade here.

00:16:06.000 They're invading.

00:16:07.000 Where is the army?

00:16:08.000 Right.

00:16:09.000 You have an intelligence failure.

00:16:11.000 The barrier fails.

00:16:12.000 You're defensive.

00:16:13.000 Your line of defense fails.

00:16:14.000 Right.

00:16:15.000 Now they're inside Israel. 0.68

00:16:17.000 The whole military should be flooding the south.

00:16:19.000 Right.

00:16:20.000 And that doesn't happen.

00:16:21.000 So I'll say a couple of things.

00:16:22.000 Number one is this was a very sophisticated, although very low tech attack.

00:16:27.000 What did they do?

00:16:28.000 Hamas, essentially. 0.65

00:16:29.000 They had studied for years the way the Israeli military is deployed along the border.

00:16:34.000 They understood what happens when, for example, they fire rockets.

00:16:38.000 So what did they do?

00:16:39.000 They fire a massive barrage of rockets.

00:16:41.000 Those women soldiers that we spoke about, where do they go when the rockets are fired? 1.00

00:16:44.000 They go into a safe space inside their base.

00:16:46.000 So they know that basically they're kind of not watching right now.

00:16:50.000 They're pretty much inside, all centralized in this one area to protect themselves because

00:16:55.000 of the rockets.

00:16:56.000 They know that's happening in all the frontline positions.

00:16:58.000 At that moment, they're also storming the border.

00:17:00.000 They're taken out with drones.

00:17:01.000 They're dropping explosive devices on the cameras.

00:17:04.000 So we got no eyes on the border.

00:17:07.000 Then they're going to those frontline positions.

00:17:08.000 They're cutting communications.

00:17:10.000 So they're going to make it difficult for one frontline position to talk to the other.

00:17:14.000 And then they're raiding those bases themselves.

00:17:17.000 They're not going.

00:17:18.000 The assumption of the IDF had been they're going to go to the communities, the kibbutzim,

00:17:21.000 right?

00:17:22.000 No, they're going first to the bases and also to the kibbutzim at the same time.

00:17:26.000 But once they bog down the commander, so you got a story, for example, in the Gaza division

00:17:31.000 headquarters near a kibbutz called Re'em, big base. 0.61

00:17:34.000 He's on the base over this holiday.

00:17:37.000 It's a Saturday.

00:17:38.000 He's there in the command center.

00:17:40.000 Rockets are flying.

00:17:41.000 He's inside.

00:17:42.000 His base comes under attack.

00:17:44.000 He's a former commando.

00:17:45.000 He used to be the commander of the Shaldag unit, one of the most elite.

00:17:48.000 He's got a tremendous track record track.

00:17:51.000 He's do I go out and fight or do I stay here?

00:17:53.000 So he's got to have his soldiers are fighting for survival in their own base.

00:17:57.000 How can he actually send troops to the kibbutzim?

00:18:00.000 He's got to fight in his own base.

00:18:02.000 So they managed very successfully to cut communications, cut the eyes and bog it out.

00:18:07.000 Let me stop right there, because as a you're a professional in this area, I'm not.

00:18:12.000 But when I read this, the level of detail they have about the kibbutzes. 0.98

00:18:17.000 Yeah.

00:18:18.000 Like they have the map.

00:18:20.000 They have a map of the kibbutz and who lives in what home, who lives in what home, where the safe space is, who the key people are in the kibbutz, who are the leaders.

00:18:27.000 Does this home have a dog or not?

00:18:29.000 Right.

00:18:30.000 The level of the base, what they know about the bases, the tactics of the Israelis. 0.53

00:18:35.000 It leads a civilian to say or former naval officer to say they had to have inside information.

00:18:43.000 There is no way they could just garner this from particularly Hamas. 0.53

00:18:47.000 I mean, they don't have the reputation of being the most organized folks in the world.

00:18:52.000 They don't have the reputation of being people that have put together a strategic plan like this.

00:18:57.000 It can be operated over such a wide, you know, it's paramilitary.

00:19:00.000 They got gliders.

00:19:01.000 They've got it's over 40 miles.

00:19:03.000 But the level of detail down at the what you call the center of battle is so detailed.

00:19:08.000 I'm sitting there going, not only did they not have human intelligence on the Hamas side, Hamas somehow has human intelligence on the Israeli side. 0.86

00:19:16.000 You know, in the couple of years.

00:19:18.000 Am I wrong on that?

00:19:19.000 So the couple of years before the attack, Israel starts to allow because this fits into the paradigm. 0.66

00:19:25.000 What's the paradigm, right?

00:19:26.000 What's the paradigm?

00:19:27.000 Hamas wants economic prosperity.

00:19:28.000 So the more they're prosperous, the less we got to worry about terrorism.

00:19:31.000 Exactly.

00:19:32.000 So that's how you get to the situation where Qatar is sending $30 million in cash every month to Gaza.

00:19:38.000 Israel's asked them to do that. 0.64

00:19:39.000 The United States has asked them to do that.

00:19:41.000 Let's buy some quiet.

00:19:42.000 But there's another thing Israel does. 0.89

00:19:44.000 It starts to allowing Gazans from Gaza into Israel to work inside Israel, work mostly inside these kibbutzim, 0.91

00:19:51.000 agriculture, jobs, factories along the border.

00:19:55.000 These people we now know go back to Gaza.

00:19:58.000 They were intelligence assets.

00:20:00.000 Well, maybe willingly, maybe some unwillingly.

00:20:03.000 Who controls Gaza? 0.60

00:20:04.000 Hamas. 0.73

00:20:05.000 So these guys cross back into Gaza after a day's work or a week's work.

00:20:09.000 They get pulled aside at the crossing by Hamas security forces.

00:20:12.000 Tell us what you know, who lives here, who lives there.

00:20:15.000 Gather for us information.

00:20:17.000 Whether they did it willingly or unwillingly doesn't make a difference.

00:20:20.000 And you're saying over time, that's how they knew like the maps of the kibbutzes. 0.69

00:20:23.000 That's how they had the maps.

00:20:24.000 That's how they knew exactly.

00:20:25.000 Who the leaders were, where the safe rooms are, all of that.

00:20:28.000 But they were also very sophisticated in gathering intelligence on the military bases, watching them, watching the deployment, seeing over time what happens when they do X.

00:20:38.000 What does the IDF do?

00:20:39.000 Do you think that in this inquiry, that could be quite painful?

00:20:43.000 Do you think that it's going to come up, the potential that they're actually Israelis that sold out their nation and gave information to these guys?

00:20:51.000 Particularly on the military bases?

00:20:53.000 I pray that that's not the case.

00:20:55.000 You're a professional though.

00:20:57.000 I know it'll be heart-wrenching to anybody in Israel, particularly given the smallness of the nation and you surround it. 0.99

00:21:03.000 And a very patriotic nation.

00:21:05.000 Super patriotic, but you have to come to the conclusion that something there is deeply wrong, given the level of detail they knew.

00:21:12.000 They had such an advantage tactically in going because they kind of knew the whole thing, right?

00:21:17.000 Yeah, I mean look.

00:21:18.000 And that's where they knew where to go, what to do.

00:21:19.000 I can't say it's impossible because we just don't know.

00:21:22.000 And there's no evidence yet to show that way.

00:21:24.000 The Israeli people are going to demand to get to the bottom of this and find out everything that went on.

00:21:29.000 I think we need to.

00:21:30.000 And look, unfortunately, there have been instances recently that have come to light of cases of where the Iranians have succeeded in

00:21:36.000 In infiltration?

00:21:37.000 In recruiting Israelis to gather intelligence.

00:21:40.000 What do you mean by this?

00:21:42.000 So not people who are within the defense establishment.

00:21:43.000 But what do you mean by that?

00:21:44.000 You know, reaching out to people online, social media, finding susceptible Israelis. 1.00

00:21:49.000 Paying them?

00:21:50.000 And paying them money.

00:21:51.000 Go find out.

00:21:52.000 Go take pictures of this Air Force base.

00:21:54.000 Go find out information about this senior official.

00:21:57.000 Look, here in the United States, you've had cases of senior American officials who have literally been under threat.

00:22:02.000 And there have been assassination attempts by the Iranians against American officials, right, who have needed to have security. 0.74

00:22:08.000 It's not.

00:22:09.000 This is what Iran does. 1.00

00:22:10.000 And they use people in the United States and they use people also in Israel like any other country in that sense.

00:22:16.000 We're always going to have people who are going to be rotten weeds, but we got to get to the bottom of it.

00:22:20.000 So that day, walk through particularly kind of the panic of some people in the IDF, but the basically heroism of others that said, OK, we got to get a grip here.

00:22:32.000 And this is bad, but we got to strike back.

00:22:34.000 Well, I mean, what I said before about this.

00:22:37.000 So you have this breakdown.

00:22:39.000 You have them bogged down in the bases.

00:22:42.000 They're attacking the bases.

00:22:43.000 But here's the other question.

00:22:44.000 They're inside the wire.

00:22:45.000 They're inside the wire.

00:22:46.000 Where is the rest of the military?

00:22:48.000 And this is the real painful question.

00:22:50.000 Like why not take the Air Force, take a couple of Apaches, throw them up on the border.

00:22:55.000 They got those cannons under the fuselage and just mow down anyone who's crossing in from Gaza. 0.98

00:23:00.000 Why don't they do that?

00:23:01.000 I spoke to pilots who boarded their aircraft and flew out to protect gas rigs in the Mediterranean. 0.98

00:23:07.000 Who gives a shit about a gas rig right now, right? 0.95

00:23:09.000 We got people who are flowing into the communities. 0.98

00:23:11.000 This is what you got to do.

00:23:13.000 So there's a couple of things you got to say here.

00:23:14.000 Number one is we have this attack in the south.

00:23:17.000 How do we know it's the last?

00:23:19.000 Maybe they're coming from the north now. 0.95

00:23:21.000 Maybe you got Hezbollah that's going to come across the border. 1.00

00:23:23.000 And if Hezbollah comes across the border.

00:23:24.000 You got a big problem.

00:23:25.000 You got a big problem.

00:23:26.000 They are double.

00:23:27.000 That's light infantry coming across.

00:23:29.000 That's double the size.

00:23:30.000 Not a bunch of paramilitary guys.

00:23:31.000 These are serious people.

00:23:33.000 So you can't just send the whole army down south.

00:23:35.000 Although these guys, it's interesting to me, I don't call them terrorists.

00:23:38.000 I mean, these are paramilitary.

00:23:40.000 I mean, their training in Hamas is pretty impressive for how they hit their marks about what they had to do. 0.80

00:23:46.000 This was their elite force, what they called the Nukhba force.

00:23:48.000 This was their elite Nukhba force. 1.00

00:23:50.000 They were also lower level people.

00:23:52.000 You know, just random people who decided to come across and pillage once the border was wide open.

00:23:56.000 But Hezbollah, different caliber. 0.96

00:23:59.000 And if we send everybody down south, this just might be...

00:24:02.000 What time is that decision made?

00:24:04.000 So 6.30 is when the attack potentially commences.

00:24:07.000 Only about 9, 10 o'clock do they start to understand, okay, we see what's going on down there.

00:24:13.000 Can we safely assess that Hezbollah is not coming as well?

00:24:16.000 But that's two, two and a half hours.

00:24:17.000 Right.

00:24:18.000 So that's two, two and a half hours in, three hours in.

00:24:20.000 But what time is the political higher up Netanyahu in the...

00:24:23.000 They're already at this point at the military headquarters in Tel Aviv.

00:24:26.000 Okay.

00:24:27.000 And they're making those decisions and they're taking, they're gathering the intelligence to understand that for sure Hezbollah is not coming. 0.94

00:24:32.000 And they're beefing up forces on the north, just in case they're misreading that situation too.

00:24:36.000 At the same time, they're trying to assess what's happening in the south.

00:24:40.000 But because of the lack of communication, because of what the success of Hamas's low-tech attack, it's hard to understand what's happening.

00:24:48.000 And here was a problem with the military, right?

00:24:50.000 The Air Force, for example, which is very painful because they could have made the difference.

00:24:54.000 They don't know, or they didn't know then how to function in an operation where they don't have somebody on the ground telling them where to go and what to do.

00:25:02.000 And that's something that has now changed, right?

00:25:04.000 It's not easy.

00:25:05.000 And you know this as a naval officer.

00:25:07.000 They almost have to have spotters.

00:25:09.000 That's why they attack helicopters.

00:25:11.000 Helicopters don't just go to a border and shoot people.

00:25:13.000 You know, maybe that should have happened on October 7th.

00:25:17.000 But that's not a good way to operate on a regular day.

00:25:20.000 And therefore, the military was not built for this type of chaos.

00:25:24.000 Hang on.

00:25:25.000 We're going to take a commercial break here.

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00:31:02.000 Yaakov Katz joins us in the house while Israel slept in a subtitle,

00:31:06.000 How Hamas Surprised the Most Powerful Military in the Middle East. 0.58

00:31:10.000 Military and Intelligence.

00:31:11.000 Yeah.

00:31:12.000 Hamas, I want to get back to the operation of the IDF. 0.96

00:31:16.000 Hamas was really never taken that seriously.

00:31:19.000 I mean, they're not Hezbollah.

00:31:20.000 They're not around.

00:31:21.000 They've always been kind of disorganized.

00:31:22.000 Don't get me wrong.

00:31:23.000 They're brutal.

00:31:24.000 And some of the brutality that went on that day is almost unspeakable.

00:31:28.000 But I think it has to be talked about.

00:31:30.000 But they weren't taken seriously.

00:31:32.000 They were never considered that serious as sophisticated.

00:31:37.000 But in this day, they actually had thought this thing through pretty well.

00:31:40.000 They knew exactly where the leverage points and the weaknesses of not just Israeli intelligence,

00:31:45.000 but the IDF, right?

00:31:47.000 They had studied very carefully.

00:31:49.000 And they understood exactly how to carry out what they wanted to do.

00:31:52.000 Look, their objective.

00:31:53.000 I mean, let's be honest for a moment.

00:31:54.000 I don't think they knew where they thought.

00:31:56.000 Yahya Sinwar, the leader of Hamas, didn't think he's going to defeat the IDF, right?

00:32:00.000 He wanted to hurt Israel in a mortal way. 0.73

00:32:03.000 And that he succeeded, killing 1,200 people, taking 251 people hostage.

00:32:08.000 But he had other objectives.

00:32:10.000 One of them, for example, we're talking on the day that Muhammad bin Salman is visiting Washington, D.C.

00:32:15.000 We back then, on October 7, 2023, we were on the verge of potential normalization between Israel and Saudi Arabia.

00:32:22.000 Due to the Abraham Accords. 0.98

00:32:23.000 For them to join the Abraham Accords. 1.00

00:32:25.000 He scuttled that.

00:32:26.000 This war torpedoed that.

00:32:28.000 And now even with this visit, it's not so clear if this is going to get back on track or not.

00:32:32.000 So he succeeded in that.

00:32:33.000 But here's the other thing, Steve.

00:32:34.000 Oh, they succeeded in a two-state solution.

00:32:37.000 And we got the two-state solution back.

00:32:38.000 But this is what I'm saying.

00:32:39.000 The other big success for him.

00:32:41.000 And this should have us really concerned.

00:32:43.000 It should have you concerned.

00:32:44.000 Look around the world today.

00:32:46.000 What is the rallying cry of every young progressive liberal in the world?

00:32:52.000 Where are they marching in London, in Paris, and university campuses here in the United States?

00:32:57.000 On behalf of Hamas. 0.98

00:32:58.000 They're supporting Hamas today.

00:33:00.000 In all of these colleges, unfortunately.

00:33:02.000 In all of these capitals around the world.

00:33:04.000 He got the French and the Canadians and the UK and others to recognize the Palestinian state while they're holding hostages.

00:33:13.000 The UN Security Council now passing a resolution that includes a Palestinian state in a pathway towards that.

00:33:22.000 And a Turkish security force.

00:33:24.000 And a Turkish security force.

00:33:25.000 And the Qataris are playing around. 1.00

00:33:26.000 And the funder of the Muslim Brotherhood being the financier. 0.90

00:33:29.000 If you have an answer, it's pretty jaw-dropping.

00:33:31.000 So, I mean, if you think about all that, I question sometimes, I mean, who's really won this war and who has lost this war?

00:33:39.000 I think Israel got back its hostages. 0.96

00:33:41.000 We've degraded Hamas. 0.91

00:33:42.000 Oh, Israel lost the war.

00:33:43.000 There's no doubt about it.

00:33:44.000 I mean, so you and I might not agree on that.

00:33:46.000 Well, how can you say they've done this?

00:33:48.000 Because, I mean, I think from a military perspective, if we look at the last two years, where we were then and where we are now, we are totally safer and more secure than we've ever been.

00:33:58.000 We have re-engineered the Middle East. 0.99

00:34:00.000 Iran's axes, these proxies that they created, they're in decline. 0.92

00:34:05.000 Now, you've got to maintain that.

00:34:07.000 You dropped a hammer blow on the proxies of Iran, but… 0.87

00:34:10.000 And on Iran itself, to some extent.

00:34:12.000 Well, I would argue, and this has been my big problem, and I was called anti-Septic.

00:34:16.000 I believe Netanyahu, you had no ability to finish what you started. 0.71

00:34:20.000 Immediately upon the start of that war, which I think goes to the fact of you've got to take care of business here.

00:34:26.000 You didn't have the defense capabilities.

00:34:28.000 We had to send Aegis cruisers, Patriot missiles, STAADs, and then you had no ability.

00:34:32.000 If the whole objective of that war is to take out their nuclear enrichment capability, you had no ability to do it.

00:34:39.000 And to the point of even the Israeli Air Force, we had to send 30 cruise missiles on a place.

00:34:46.000 I was patrolling in 1979 the North Arabian Sea.

00:34:51.000 You had to send 30 cruise missiles to take out the surface capability.

00:34:54.000 You had no ability until President Trump dropped the hammer with the total obliteration.

00:34:59.000 You had…

00:35:00.000 Did you do some great stuff in Tehran militarily, you know, taking out the negotiating team and taking out some members of the hierarchy?

00:35:08.000 Yes, but that was the mission was to get…

00:35:10.000 Steve, here's the question.

00:35:11.000 To me, if the United States had not stepped in, I told the president this.

00:35:15.000 You're bailing out the Israeli military because they can't… 0.52

00:35:19.000 That war was about to go dramatically the other way because you couldn't stop what was hitting Tel Aviv at all. 0.71

00:35:25.000 But here's the question that Israel had to ask itself.

00:35:28.000 Iran is racing forward with its enrichment towards a nuclear bomb. 0.68

00:35:31.000 It's not…

00:35:32.000 Okay, that's not true because the Times of Israel…

00:35:34.000 This is…

00:35:35.000 No, I didn't…

00:35:36.000 That's just not true.

00:35:37.000 The Times of Israel just released…

00:35:39.000 As I said the night…

00:35:40.000 On that Thursday night when Netanyahu bombed, I said, show me the intelligence that is so urgent.

00:35:46.000 And Netanyahu is happening next week, two weeks. 0.68

00:35:48.000 On Sunday night on Fox News with Brett Berry, he goes, what, six months to a year.

00:35:52.000 Well, now we know from the Times that Israel released the War Cabinet minutes where the War Cabinet said it was two years.

00:35:59.000 There was no pressing concern they had to go that Thursday.

00:36:02.000 Netanyahu's government wants to always focus on Tehran and the Persians.

00:36:07.000 Here, you had a…

00:36:09.000 This could have very easily…

00:36:11.000 If it hadn't been for the heroism of some people that day and quick decisions,

00:36:15.000 this could have metastasized into something worse.

00:36:18.000 I mean, that's what's so shocking about it.

00:36:19.000 Right.

00:36:20.000 It could have been 1,200 people, which is the worst day since World War II or since the Holocaust.

00:36:24.000 You could have had thousands of done, and then you could have had all of Gaza risen up. 0.99

00:36:28.000 You know, all of Gaza, because as Hamas, as you know, how they've trained up some of the people there, 0.88

00:36:34.000 it could have been the individual.

00:36:36.000 You could have had an actual offense in there. 0.58

00:36:39.000 This thing is so scary.

00:36:42.000 By the time you're in the late morning, it's like, hey, if it's not for people making quick decisions and getting their act together under the pressure of combat, this thing could have metastasized much worse.

00:36:53.000 And the Iranians, I say the two problems is one here, because now you've got the Turks and the Muslim Brotherhood in it. 1.00

00:37:00.000 Okay.

00:37:01.000 Number one, that's a defeat.

00:37:02.000 Number two, you have a bigger problem in the streets of New York.

00:37:05.000 You talk about the protests around the world.

00:37:07.000 I got it.

00:37:08.000 But I've said I'm the first guy to identify this guy when he was at 2% because people in New York told me, hey, you're not focused on this guy from the working family party.

00:37:17.000 He's a jihadist and a Marxist.

00:37:19.000 Mondani is a jihadist and a Marxist.

00:37:22.000 Okay.

00:37:23.000 And everybody, I would talk to all the people in New York, no, Cuomo's got $40 million.

00:37:26.000 He's got the firemen, the cops, the Irish, every synagogue, the New York Times op-ed page, the New York Post.

00:37:32.000 It's impossible.

00:37:33.000 This will blow it.

00:37:34.000 And now this guy's going to take power.

00:37:36.000 And to me, you saw the real face of him on the night of his victory.

00:37:40.000 You don't have happy tap dancing, you know, tick tocks going through the grocery store.

00:37:47.000 He was coming out and I'm saying, hey, that's the new boss.

00:37:50.000 Because you saw that up in President Trump's grill and up really in the American establishment's grill.

00:37:54.000 We have huge problems.

00:37:56.000 But to me, you've got to focus on exactly what you have to take care of business to do.

00:38:01.000 No, but all I'm saying, you have to look at it in its entirety.

00:38:04.000 Okay.

00:38:05.000 What Hamas did crossing into Israel, obviously, with that attack, they are a massive terrorist group that we failed to deal with.

00:38:13.000 But you have to look at the bigger picture.

00:38:14.000 The bigger picture starts in Iran, proceeds to Hezbollah in Lebanon, is also Gaza, and the Houthis in Yemen.

00:38:21.000 The nuclear track, whether they're six months a year, 18 months, two years, with the ballistic missiles that they're developing, with their capabilities, and with the whole picture, they had to be taken on at this moment.

00:38:33.000 No, it didn't have to be taken on.

00:38:36.000 Let me give you one other reason why.

00:38:38.000 I respect you tremendously.

00:38:40.000 You're absolutely dead wrong, because here's why.

00:38:42.000 By doing that, here's what you got.

00:38:44.000 In the middle of November, in the year of our Lord, 2025, you have the reality.

00:38:48.000 Two million Gazans or Palestinians are going to stay in Gaza.

00:38:52.000 The Muslim Brotherhood in Qatar are going to finance a redevelopment.

00:38:55.000 You have, which is almost incomprehensible.

00:38:58.000 You have the Turks are going to be the international security force coordinators of the Saudis, UAE, and Egyptian troops in Gaza, which is basically a foothold in Israel.

00:39:10.000 And now we have today, you're about to have a formal dinner with Elon Musk and all the tech bros showing up, because they can't wait to get their hands on the cash of the Saudis. 0.98

00:39:21.000 And so it is the worst possible world, and a big part of that came from this maniacal focus on Tehran as an immediate threat. 0.65

00:39:30.000 Now, Hezbollah and the Houthis, yes, they're proxies, definitely.

00:39:33.000 And you took, but you took out, you took out Hezbollah. 0.88

00:39:36.000 You've eventually, with the Americans, crippled the Houthis. 0.57

00:39:39.000 The maniacal focus on that, and I think for political reasons, has left Israel in a horrible strategic situation.

00:39:46.000 But Steve.

00:39:47.000 Am I wrong in that?

00:39:48.000 I think you are, but let me explain to you why.

00:39:50.000 Katz, I've got to get you in here more often.

00:39:51.000 Let me explain to you why.

00:39:52.000 Yeah, okay.

00:39:53.000 If you have Iran, what's your concern about Iran?

00:39:55.000 Two-fold.

00:39:56.000 A, they get nuclear, B, their ballistic missile program, and their proxies. 0.63

00:40:00.000 If you ever want to attack, let's say it's in two years, because you've got two years according to what you're saying.

00:40:04.000 I'm just saying with the Times-

00:40:05.000 No, no, I got it.

00:40:06.000 You've got two years.

00:40:07.000 You wait until they're at the verge.

00:40:09.000 You still have Hezbollah, and you have Hamas. 0.93

00:40:12.000 When you attack, you're going to get the Iranian missiles, the Hezbollah missiles, and the Hamas missiles. 0.91

00:40:17.000 What did Israel do in June after it had eviscerated Hezbollah?

00:40:21.000 It had weakened Hamas.

00:40:23.000 The payback, the retaliation goes from being up here suddenly to being down here.

00:40:29.000 So you had the air defense.

00:40:30.000 Correct.

00:40:31.000 So you have an operation.

00:40:32.000 So you do have to be concerned about the Iranian missiles, and America helped Israel with that, with the THADs and the Aegises.

00:40:37.000 I'm not saying not, but you had an operational window.

00:40:40.000 I was calling for it because I said to myself-

00:40:43.000 You were calling for what now?

00:40:44.000 For Israel to take action against Iran.

00:40:46.000 If there was a moment, it was in June.

00:40:48.000 I wrote a piece.

00:40:49.000 I knew nothing of the plans that were taking place.

00:40:52.000 I wrote a piece the week before saying Israel has a moment in history now to operate because we don't have to worry about Hezbollah. 0.98

00:40:58.000 We don't have to worry about the Houthis.

00:41:01.000 We've taken all of them out.

00:41:02.000 We still have to worry about Iran, but if you're going to act, you act now. 0.99

00:41:05.000 Now, you could say, hold on.

00:41:06.000 If Israel was going at it on its own, it was only going to set them back for a small window. 0.67

00:41:11.000 We didn't know that Trump was going to send the B-2 bombers and take out- 0.82

00:41:14.000 No, because he dragged us into a war.

00:41:17.000 I don't know if it was dragging into war.

00:41:19.000 It was 100% dragging into war.

00:41:20.000 I would say we did something together.

00:41:22.000 We took out an enemy that you would not want the Iranians to get a nuclear bomb just as much as I would not want them to get a nuclear bomb. 0.99

00:41:28.000 But you've got plenty of time.

00:41:29.000 You've got plenty of time.

00:41:30.000 They say two years.

00:41:31.000 It could be ten years.

00:41:32.000 Yeah, or two years could end up being half a year.

00:41:34.000 It could be half a year, but in all likelihood it's not.

00:41:37.000 It's a gamble in either way, Steve.

00:41:38.000 I just think there, I don't believe there was active buy-in because you see that Friday morning when you go on Fox News.

00:41:45.000 Israel did it, and we kind of caught up with it and said, okay, but it was an active thing.

00:41:51.000 As soon as you sent, as a naval officer, as soon as you sent the Aegis cruisers to the eastern Mediterranean, I said, these guys are in trouble because they need our air defense.

00:41:59.000 They need to send the Patriots.

00:42:00.000 But you know Lake Haidu.

00:42:01.000 You know what was happening, and the full story, your book tells the full story of the Hamas attack.

00:42:08.000 Correct.

00:42:09.000 Or at least what we know today.

00:42:10.000 Yeah.

00:42:11.000 This will be the predicate for, which I believe will be one of the biggest events in the history of Israel, will be the inquiry into this, right?

00:42:20.000 And even the setting up of the inquiry, whether Netanyahu forms a warring commission or whether other voices say, no, we have to have this totally independently.

00:42:27.000 Independent, yeah.

00:42:28.000 It's going to be huge.

00:42:29.000 And what comes out here, there's going to be a lot of finger pointing.

00:42:32.000 The other thing is what really happened on the 12-day war because I believe that Tel Aviv was getting pounded much harder than the Western media said.

00:42:41.000 You know, the Western media hasn't done a good job, I don't think, in Gaza, but they particularly didn't do a good job during the 12-day war.

00:42:46.000 Yeah, we had about 500 missiles that were fired, and about 60 of them, 10 percent or so, were not intercepted and landed, and they caused casualties.

00:42:54.000 We had about 30 Israelis who were killed.

00:42:56.000 We had extensive damage.

00:42:57.000 But I think you and I do agree whether it had to happen then or not.

00:43:00.000 Here's what we agree on.

00:43:01.000 The world is a safer place today with the Iranians on the defensive. 1.00

00:43:04.000 The world is a safer place with the Iranians weaker, and the Iranians are just as much a threat. 1.00

00:43:09.000 Steve, you know this. 0.81

00:43:10.000 The world is a safer place.

00:43:11.000 When the Iranians, when the Ayatollahs march on the streets of Tehran. 0.92

00:43:13.000 But the focus of that gets you.

00:43:15.000 The world is not a safer place.

00:43:17.000 I don't think it's a safer place.

00:43:18.000 When they march and say destroy Israel, death to Israel, they're saying death to America on the same breath.

00:43:23.000 I was there in 79 and 80 when the hostage crisis happened.

00:43:26.000 My destroyer went over there.

00:43:27.000 They've been yelling that for years.

00:43:29.000 When people use that, I go, if that's the best you've got.

00:43:32.000 Here's what I know is reality.

00:43:33.000 You have the Muslim Brotherhood in Gaza with two million Palestinians and their unlimited amount of money.

00:43:40.000 And you got, which is mind bending.

00:43:43.000 You have the Turks. 1.00

00:43:44.000 The whole purpose of the revolt, the whole purpose of that sector in World War I was to drive the Ottoman Empire and the Turks, not just away from the two holy sites, but drive them out of the Holy Land.

00:43:56.000 In fact, drive them out of Damascus back to Turkey. 1.00

00:43:58.000 And now you've got the Turks that are going to be the international security force coordinator of an Arab army and basically an Arab legion that's going to be have a foothold in Israel.

00:44:09.000 So you can't say from Israel's perspective, it's catastrophic.

00:44:12.000 What's happening now in Gaza.

00:44:13.000 You do agree it's catastrophic.

00:44:14.000 What's happening now in Gaza is deeply concerning.

00:44:16.000 I mean, I'm concerned.

00:44:17.000 You're such a diplomat.

00:44:18.000 You're going to get into politics deeply.

00:44:19.000 What do you mean deeply?

00:44:20.000 I'm not.

00:44:21.000 No.

00:44:22.000 Catastrophic is one good word to use.

00:44:26.000 I mean, look.

00:44:27.000 Are you shocked about the outcome here?

00:44:29.000 If this is the outcome, I'm shocked.

00:44:30.000 Yes.

00:44:31.000 Because if this is what victory looks like, then this is not victory.

00:44:35.000 Hold it.

00:44:36.000 Let me give you a worse one.

00:44:37.000 Because I'm going to have, I had Rabbi Walicki and I'm close to Rabbi and I've been adamant that he was, these guys taking the wrong path.

00:44:44.000 He said, well, Hamas has got to be disarmed and that's going to be a thing.

00:44:47.000 I said, you're missing that.

00:44:48.000 You're not, you're missing what's really happening.

00:44:51.000 They're saying now, hey, if Hamas turns over their arms, fine.

00:44:54.000 If not, we're going to be segregated or there'll be some deal.

00:44:57.000 There's no push to take the arms away from Hamas.

00:44:59.000 Am I missing that or is that just the way I read it?

00:45:01.000 Now it doesn't look like that's going to happen, which is insane, right?

00:45:04.000 In other words, you have Gaza right now. 0.87

00:45:06.000 Israel is still in control about 50%. 0.98

00:45:08.000 Hamas is back on the streets of 50%. 0.97

00:45:10.000 They still have about 200 miles of tunnels.

00:45:13.000 They still got their arms.

00:45:14.000 They might not have the rockets that have depleted or been destroyed, but they'll rebuild.

00:45:17.000 I mean, who are we kidding?

00:45:19.000 If this is how the war ends, this is not a victory for Israel.

00:45:22.000 This is not a victory for the West.

00:45:24.000 So what are we thinking?

00:45:25.000 The Turks are going to go in and disarm them? 1.00

00:45:26.000 The Qataris are going to disarm them? 1.00

00:45:28.000 Come on.

00:45:29.000 You know that's not going to happen.

00:45:30.000 No, of course that's not going to happen.

00:45:31.000 They're going to rebuild them.

00:45:32.000 Why am I advocating now a three state solution?

00:45:34.000 I'm saying, hey, we need a Christian part of this.

00:45:36.000 I think I say this, if this deal goes on and it looks in the direction of what you're seeing with the Saudis today, I'm not sure you have an Israel in 20 years. 0.82

00:45:45.000 That's why I'm arguing for a three state solution.

00:45:47.000 I want the Christians have part. 0.99

00:45:49.000 And I think that would be a stabilizing factor. 0.99

00:45:51.000 And people, you're crazy.

00:45:53.000 I go, no, I'm not crazy because I've seen the arc of this. 0.97

00:45:56.000 Right.

00:45:57.000 And the arc, the trend line is not good.

00:45:59.000 Would you admit that?

00:46:00.000 If this is what victory looks like, and Moss is still armed, because they're going to be still armed.

00:46:06.000 We've just said that over the last 72 hours.

00:46:08.000 No, no, Steve, here's what we know.

00:46:09.000 Am I wrong in this?

00:46:10.000 No, here's what we know.

00:46:11.000 There is something called decisive victory in war.

00:46:13.000 Yes.

00:46:14.000 America has achieved that in some of its conflicts.

00:46:16.000 Many, many, many years ago.

00:46:18.000 Many years ago.

00:46:19.000 But when it did that after World War II, when Japan and Germany were decisively defeated, both those countries embarked on a new journey.

00:46:26.000 We don't have that in Gaza today.

00:46:28.000 And the thought that what is happening is going to change the people.

00:46:32.000 Well, part of the world would say they are on a new journey.

00:46:35.000 They're on a new journey of self-sufficiency and really Arab buy-in, Muslim buy-in, et cetera.

00:46:41.000 As long as Hamas is there. 0.99

00:46:42.000 That's been yesterday's show about the Islamification of Texas.

00:46:46.000 Because I keep telling people, you didn't pay attention to me in New York, and now New York is going to be like London in 10 years.

00:46:52.000 Yeah.

00:46:53.000 And some of my conservative friends said, oh, you're playing this.

00:46:56.000 He's a socialist.

00:46:57.000 And socialism fails.

00:46:58.000 I go, he's not a socialist.

00:46:59.000 He's a Marxist jihadist.

00:47:00.000 These guys are like Bolsheviks. 0.96

00:47:02.000 Once they get in there, you're not, you're going to take a...

00:47:04.000 There are parts of London you walk through today.

00:47:06.000 You feel like you're in downtown Beirut to Ramallah.

00:47:08.000 Because you are in downtown Beirut to Ramallah.

00:47:10.000 This is what New York City is on track to become.

00:47:12.000 And Jews cannot walk down their streets safely. 1.00

00:47:14.000 No. 0.90

00:47:15.000 Frankly, most Englishmen can't walk down the street safely.

00:47:18.000 Sadiq Khan, and they had the same kind of happy face, you know, happy clappy.

00:47:22.000 I said, look what's going to happen here.

00:47:24.000 I was dead right about that.

00:47:25.000 London's getting worse.

00:47:26.000 I've said that the English are heading to a civil war.

00:47:30.000 It can't happen here.

00:47:31.000 In Texas, we have a massive problem right now.

00:47:34.000 Funded by the Muslim Brotherhood.

00:47:36.000 We've had 48 mosques developed in the Dallas area in the last two years.

00:47:42.000 They're doing two a month.

00:47:43.000 So it's got to stop.

00:47:45.000 And I just see what's happening in Gaza.

00:47:47.000 It is actually a mind-blowing outcome of this war.

00:47:52.000 And that's what I think you've got to...

00:47:54.000 Here's for the audience.

00:47:56.000 To start to get a grip of all of it, which we try to do to make sure that you guys

00:48:00.000 geopolitically and capital markets, everything can make decisions for yourself.

00:48:04.000 Start with this book.

00:48:05.000 This book is shocking.

00:48:06.000 For an outsider, it's shocking.

00:48:09.000 You're shocked on every page of it.

00:48:11.000 And then you see what happened in the war and the solution we have now.

00:48:15.000 And all I say is that when you guys have the formal inquiry, it's going to be even more shocking.

00:48:19.000 Because I think that...

00:48:20.000 Not going to tear the country apart.

00:48:21.000 I think we'll actually bring Israel together.

00:48:23.000 But they'll have to face up to a lot of things they looked at, not just technology,

00:48:28.000 but maybe focus too much on Iran, but also just how societies and cultures get ossified.

00:48:34.000 Right?

00:48:35.000 The legendary intelligence services, the legendary military that saved Israel every time they're overwhelmed.

00:48:40.000 You start to see the reality of it.

00:48:42.000 I've talked too much.

00:48:43.000 Take a couple of minutes.

00:48:44.000 We've got about two minutes left.

00:48:46.000 Look, Steve...

00:48:47.000 You're a great guy and I'm really glad you came over here to do that.

00:48:48.000 Thank you so much for having me.

00:48:49.000 Take this abuse.

00:48:50.000 No, no.

00:48:51.000 It's not abuse.

00:48:52.000 I mean, listen.

00:48:53.000 I think what we all want is we want a safer region and we want a safer place.

00:48:56.000 And I think that the problem that we currently face in the aftermath...

00:48:59.000 We have to study and we have to learn.

00:49:00.000 I appreciate your kind words about the book.

00:49:02.000 And there will need to be a commissioner of Ukraine.

00:49:04.000 Hopefully, the Israeli government will establish that.

00:49:06.000 Because we have to prepare for what's coming.

00:49:08.000 Because there's more coming.

00:49:09.000 And that's the brutal truth.

00:49:11.000 The way this war ended in Gaza, it could happen again. 0.62

00:49:14.000 Hamas could potentially be able to rebuild. 0.92

00:49:16.000 Hezbollah is still there in Lebanon.

00:49:18.000 And the government of Lebanon, despite all the support it's getting from Europe and the United States,

00:49:23.000 they're still not confronting them head on and trying to disarm them too.

00:49:27.000 And the Iranians will rebuild if they are not stopped. 1.00

00:49:30.000 So the region...

00:49:31.000 Next time I want to get you on, maybe we'll have to...

00:49:33.000 You're not going to be back for a while?

00:49:34.000 Maybe in a couple months, yeah.

00:49:36.000 I want to get you on because I want to talk about the Greater Israel Project.

00:49:40.000 Because I think that was a big...

00:49:41.000 People not understanding that here in the United States of America hurt at the moment of decision,

00:49:46.000 hurt kind of the relationship between Israel and the United States.

00:49:49.000 But where do people get you?

00:49:51.000 Where do they go for your content?

00:49:53.000 YakovKatz.com, you can find me there.

00:49:56.000 Contact information, X, LinkedIn.

00:49:58.000 Are you working on a book on the 12-Day War?

00:50:00.000 It's something that I'm thinking about.

00:50:02.000 By the way, I can't recommend enough that you should do that book.

00:50:07.000 Okay.

00:50:08.000 I think people have to understand about the 12-Day War,

00:50:11.000 particularly here, President Trump's decision-making, what it all meant, etc.

00:50:15.000 Okay.

00:50:16.000 Birchgold.com, End of the Dollar Empire.

00:50:19.000 We're coming out with a physical copy of it.

00:50:21.000 We're going to launch that next week about how you can actually qualify for it.

00:50:24.000 We're going to talk about that.

00:50:26.000 It's the big launch.

00:50:27.000 It's going to be at AmFest, Charlie Kirk's AmFest.

00:50:30.000 It's going to take place, I think, the 18th through the 21st, I'm correct?

00:50:34.000 The 18th through the 21st in Phoenix.

00:50:36.000 Of course, the 19th and 20th will be the big days.

00:50:39.000 We're going to have the live studio there.

00:50:41.000 I want everybody to show up.

00:50:42.000 I want to thank Yakov.

00:50:43.000 Thanks for doing this.

00:50:44.000 I knew you had a busy thing, and thanks for coming into the world.

00:50:46.000 I really appreciate it.

00:50:47.000 I look forward to getting you back on.

00:50:49.000 We're going to leave you with the right stuff.

00:50:51.000 We're back at 10 a.m. Eastern Standard Time tomorrow.

00:50:53.000 The show's already packed.

00:50:54.000 Don't miss it.

00:50:55.000 I'll be up on Getter all night.

00:50:57.000 I won't.

00:50:58.980 Thank you.

00:51:01.000 All right.

00:51:02.000 Thank you.

00:51:32.700 Okay, let's be honest.

00:51:33.720 You never thought it would get this far.

00:51:35.160 Maybe you missed the last IRS deadline or you haven't filed taxes in a while.

00:51:39.880 Let me be clear.

00:51:41.000 The IRS is cracking down harder than ever, and this ain't going to go away anytime soon.

00:51:46.580 That's why you need Tax Network USA.

00:51:49.100 They don't just know the IRS.

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00:52:00.420 Settle your tax problems quickly and in your favor.

00:52:04.740 Their team has helped clear over $1 billion in tax debt, whether you owe $10,000 or $10 million.

00:52:11.120 Even if your books are a mess or you haven't filed in years, Tax Network USA can help.

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00:52:23.740 Talk to a strategist and finally put this behind you.

00:52:27.540 Call 1-800-958-1000.

00:52:31.020 That's 1-800-958-1000.

00:52:34.320 Or visit TNUSA.com slash Bannon.

00:52:38.000 Make sure you tell them, Bannon, you'll get a free evaluation.

00:52:40.680 That's 1-800-958-1000.

00:52:44.060 Do not let letters from the IRS or your failure to file work on your nerves anymore.

00:52:51.100 Take action, action, action, and do it today.

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Bannon's War Room - November 18, 2025

WarRoom Battleground EP 894： How Hamas Surprised The Most Powerful Military

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