Bannon's War Room - December 04, 2025


WarRoom Battleground EP 903： Christianity with UK political analyst Joseph Robertson


Episode Stats

Length

53 minutes

Words per Minute

153.94855

Word Count

8,289

Sentence Count

496

Misogynist Sentences

1

Hate Speech Sentences

20


Summary

Joseph Robertson joins us to talk about his new book, The Pope Who Sold the Faith, and why the Vatican is trying to kill off the Catholic Church. We also talk about the latest in the Chinese government spying on the British government, and how the Church is being used as a front for it.


Transcript

00:00:00.000 This is the primal scream of a dying regime.
00:00:07.000 Pray for our enemies, because we're going medieval on these people.
00:00:12.000 Here's one time I got a free shot at all these networks lying about the people.
00:00:17.000 The people have had a belly full of it.
00:00:19.000 I know you don't like hearing that.
00:00:20.000 I know you try to do everything in the world to stop that,
00:00:22.000 but you're not going to stop it.
00:00:23.000 It's going to happen.
00:00:24.000 And where do people like that go to share the big lie?
00:00:27.000 Mega Media.
00:00:29.000 I wish in my soul, I wish that any of these people had a conscience.
00:00:34.000 Ask yourself, what is my task and what is my purpose?
00:00:38.000 If that answer is to save my country, this country will be saved.
00:00:44.000 War Room. Here's your host, Stephen K. Vann.
00:00:48.000 Wednesday 26th of November.
00:00:59.000 Anno Domini 2025.
00:01:01.000 Harnwell here at the helm on Steve Bannon's War Room.
00:01:05.000 The usual team has a Thanksgiving break right now.
00:01:10.000 Liz, Liz Yor, Jenny Holland, Frank Walker from Canon 212.
00:01:16.000 Frank himself has injured, given himself an injury, tripping over when he was out for a jog,
00:01:23.000 which underlines one of my main theses.
00:01:25.000 Don't do exercise because it's very bad for your health.
00:01:29.000 But our prayers for a speedy recovery obviously go to Frank Walker.
00:01:33.000 We're going to talk about quite a bit that's going on in the church today.
00:01:39.000 Let me bring on our guest this evening.
00:01:42.000 You'll recognize him if you follow the Friday show.
00:01:44.000 Joseph Robertson, one of the great, I think, young writers talking about politics,
00:01:50.000 specifically the infiltration of socialism across the British political structure via the Fabian Society,
00:01:58.000 but also in terms of the CCP, and he was on the show, Joseph was on the show on Friday of last week,
00:02:05.000 just talking about the espionage operation, which was tracking like thousands of people,
00:02:13.000 literally thousands of people right across Westminster.
00:02:16.000 And it's something that Joseph Robertson himself had warned about just in October
00:02:21.000 by indicating the British government's absolute refusal to list China as a national threat.
00:02:31.000 Joseph, welcome onto the show again.
00:02:36.000 Thanks for having me, Ben.
00:02:39.000 Before we dig down on the stories that we've selected for you this evening, I want to play something.
00:02:45.000 I often say on The War Room that there are three principal sources, folks, for you to go to
00:02:53.000 to get the truth about what's going on in the Catholic Church.
00:02:56.000 Those sources are Frank Walker at Canon 212.
00:02:59.000 Basically, I think they're the Catholic Matt Drudge.
00:03:03.000 His website's updated in real time.
00:03:07.000 And he's always telling you, especially how he frames the headlines so you can see at a glance,
00:03:13.000 really what's going on, what the undercurrents are in the modernism in the church.
00:03:20.000 The other person I would cite and do cite is Chris Jackson, a writer out on Substack,
00:03:27.000 who has simply unmatched analysis, especially on the joined up nature between Bergoglio and Leo.
00:03:38.000 And, of course, the third source is The War Room.
00:03:41.000 And all three of us, Frank Walker, Chris Jackson, and The War Room, we have said right from the beginning,
00:03:47.000 to pay very close attention to this papacy, it is and will be the continuation of the Francis pontificate.
00:03:57.000 It is Bergoglio 2.0.
00:04:00.000 And that's something that we see affirmed every time we come together and put this show out.
00:04:05.000 And one of the things that we criticize, all three of us, all three of these sources, is the nature of Trad Inc.,
00:04:12.000 which is an amorphous collection within journalism, but not only in journalism, of people who do the conference speaker circuit and what have you.
00:04:24.000 And they are deliberately misleading you about what is going on in the church, the reasons that that's going on in the church.
00:04:33.000 And it's all to do with the grift.
00:04:35.000 And the reason I'm saying that, Denver, if you wouldn't mind now, let's just listen to 30 seconds of this,
00:04:41.000 and then I will break it down and explain exactly what it is.
00:04:43.000 You used to shout, this Pope is killing off the faith.
00:05:01.000 Now it's friends, be very careful, don't be harsh, don't lack good taste.
00:05:08.000 You used to torch the S-Men as they spun each Vatican twist.
00:05:15.000 So this is the genius of artificial intelligence.
00:05:24.000 Words by Chris Jackson, sung by AI.
00:05:27.000 And I'm just going to go through a couple of these verses for you, because this is the mandate of why Canon 212, why the war room, why Chris Jackson, why we're doing what we're doing.
00:05:39.000 This is absolutely perfect.
00:05:41.000 So let me just go through this.
00:05:42.000 You used to shout, this Pope is killing off the faith.
00:05:46.000 Now it's friends, be careful, don't be harsh, don't lack good taste.
00:05:52.000 You used to torch the S-Men as they spun each Vatican twist.
00:05:56.000 Now you sell the same excuses with a Patreon benefits list.
00:06:02.000 You used to call Pacamama a disgrace before the Lord.
00:06:07.000 Now it's, please don't be dramatic.
00:06:09.000 Let's use a softer, safer word.
00:06:12.000 You used to say the new right showed the crisis clear as day.
00:06:17.000 Now when Leo cuts the old one, you tell people, just obey.
00:06:23.000 You used to swear you'd lose it all before you'd sell the truth.
00:06:27.000 Now you tone it down for donors.
00:06:29.000 So the checks keep coming through.
00:06:31.000 I could go on.
00:06:32.000 This is perfect.
00:06:33.000 This is exactly, exactly what we're warning about.
00:06:37.000 Okay, Joseph, come on now.
00:06:40.000 Just tell us, because you've been on the show a few times before, as I say, to talk about the Fabian society, this infiltration that's been going on across the whole of the British Labour Party.
00:06:52.000 And I think we're going to see real evidence of that in the budget right now, to be honest with you, of the success of that socialist communist movement.
00:06:59.000 And you said on Friday about China, but many people don't realize you also have a hinterland.
00:07:05.000 You are a traditional Catholic.
00:07:07.000 Let me start off, before we break down the stories on the show, just tell me a bit about yourself and your, now I know the word is, I hate the word, when people talk about faith journey.
00:07:20.000 But why don't you tell us a bit about your faith journey?
00:07:24.000 Well, thank you.
00:07:26.000 And it's nice to talk about something other than politics, because of course, at the end of the day, we all end up somewhere else, which is not this earth.
00:07:34.000 And that's the most important thing. And I would say two things before I go into my own personal journey.
00:07:41.000 Firstly, that the realization of infiltration in politics has certainly helped me with my Catholic worldview as well.
00:07:49.000 And I think actually there are striking parallels between what we're fighting in state and church at the moment.
00:07:54.000 And we can go into that later on, I'm sure.
00:07:57.000 But it does help, I think, to have a understanding of the duality of the spiritual battle and the playing field in terms of what we're fighting for really across the West, Christian civilization, and of course, the Catholic Church itself.
00:08:12.000 I was born, I was lucky enough to be born, blessed enough to be born into a Catholic family.
00:08:18.000 And I had two wonderful parents, still do have two wonderful parents, who ended up going to the Latin Mass when I was around eight years old.
00:08:29.000 So I sort of, you know, got to know about tradition at a very young age.
00:08:33.000 And I didn't fully understand everything at that time, but I had an instinct that this was something far more sacred and mystical than what I had experienced thus far, even at that young age.
00:08:44.000 And of course, as most people do, I went somewhat wayward in my teens and after my school years, and then came back to the church in my early 20s, really.
00:08:56.000 And so I've been able to see both, you know, the inside of the church, the world for a little bit, and then to come back to it.
00:09:03.000 And joining up those dots really was when I first started working in politics about six, seven years ago.
00:09:09.000 And I began to see what a rift there was between what people think politics is and what it really is, which is a tangled web of sophisticated and interconnected codependencies, as I like to call it.
00:09:23.520 And I realized actually that the church was in a pretty similar position at the same time.
00:09:28.460 And so my views have shifted what most people would call rightward, both in terms of politics and religion.
00:09:35.600 Well, tell me a bit more about the search for the sacred.
00:09:38.100 How did you feel? How did you realize that that's something you're looking for?
00:09:47.280 Well, I always instinctively was conservative, even when I drifted away from the church.
00:09:52.180 There were certain issues which I had just considered to be categorically conservative, issues of life, issues surrounding morality, the family, all that kind of thing.
00:10:03.560 Of course, you know, I didn't really care about them from a moral viewpoint, but I had that basis.
00:10:08.100 What I came to realize once I was in my 20s was that there was something missing.
00:10:14.220 And really, you only discover proper grandeur when you when you can think about something that's higher than yourself.
00:10:21.700 And of course, the Latin mass, as I'm sure you and many of your viewers will have experienced at some point, is the ultimate perfection of that you feel pulled out of yourself, whether or not you believe what's happening is kind of almost secondary.
00:10:37.220 Your first experience is filled with every sensory delight.
00:10:40.200 You have incense, you have music, you have a worshipful order towards God, which is not found anywhere else, in my opinion.
00:10:48.400 And experiencing that again, particularly at the Brompton Oratory in London, which, as many people will know, has some of the best music left in the UK and in other wonderful churches, particularly on trips to Rome and to France.
00:11:01.000 And I began to to come back.
00:11:06.480 OK, so you're the use of the term I'm a convert.
00:11:11.160 I converted from the Church of England, about which we'll talk in a few moments to the Catholic Church 25 years ago.
00:11:18.300 You're a revert.
00:11:19.280 You were baptized as a baby as a Catholic and you left religious practice.
00:11:24.180 And then you came back as an adult.
00:11:26.340 What age were you when you stopped going to church?
00:11:29.720 What age were you when you came back as well?
00:11:32.980 And I guess that throughout your childhood, when your parents took you to church, you would go to the Novus Ordo Mass.
00:11:39.220 Now, as you were telling me earlier around London, though you tend to go to Wandsworth, you'll go wherever you might be at the time where there's a Latin mass.
00:11:48.740 So you're pretty much Latin mass TLM exclusive right now.
00:11:52.140 So tell me then, if you wouldn't mind, at the age you stopped going to the Novus Ordo and the age when you restarted religious practice within the TLM?
00:12:08.280 Yeah, around eight years old, I experienced my first traditional Latin mass.
00:12:11.880 My parents went more or less exclusively, but we would still attend the Novus Ordo from time to time.
00:12:16.800 And that was a Darsus and Latin mass, so you had to travel quite a while in those days to where we were in the Midlands.
00:12:22.260 We weren't in London at the time, so you had to travel quite a while to find a Latin mass.
00:12:26.200 They weren't everywhere at the time.
00:12:28.220 And so occasionally we'd still go to the Novus Ordo and occasionally we would, or most of the time, we'd go to the Latin mass.
00:12:34.520 And as I got older, we switched exclusively to the Latin mass.
00:12:38.880 We were going to the FSSP, and I also went a couple of times to the SSPX, although I didn't really know what that was at the time.
00:12:47.420 And, yeah, we settled in this kind of community, the Fraternity of St. Peter.
00:12:52.000 And so my teens really were in that community.
00:12:55.660 And then I stopped probably practicing properly around the age of 17, I would say, although I had already fallen into wayward habits in my teenage years.
00:13:06.380 But I stopped attending the sacraments around that age.
00:13:09.260 And I guess I went back to it probably about five years later or, you know, around that time.
00:13:15.460 And I have to say that, you know, I'm 28 now, and COVID really, funny enough to say, strengthened my faith immensely in that period, because there was a lot of time to think and reflect.
00:13:28.680 We're all in lockdown and really to realize where the world was heading.
00:13:33.060 And although I'd already returned back to the church at that point, it sort of consolidated where we were in terms of how easy it was for everything to just stand still and what a blessing it was to have the sacraments.
00:13:44.440 And so that's when I really started to get to grips and explore my faith even further.
00:13:51.980 I'm going to ask you a question about what advice you might have to folks your own age, but stand by in two minutes.
00:14:02.820 We'll come back to that.
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00:14:51.820 Back now to Joseph Robertson. Joseph, just out of interest, whereabouts did you grow up in the Midlands?
00:14:57.800 I was in Shropshire, so we attended a mass in Stoke and Shrewsbury, and in other places around there.
00:15:08.380 That's West Midlands, right?
00:15:10.640 Yes, right on the border with Wales. So for anyone who's aware of the geography of the United Kingdom, we're right on the edge, sort of next to the Welsh.
00:15:18.300 The East Midlands, the Midlands itself is basically in the very heart, the geographical heart, the centre of England.
00:15:28.580 I grew up in the East Midlands.
00:15:32.820 Look, if you know, we have plenty of people of all age groups listening to this show.
00:15:37.660 If there's, like, a young guy, say 20 years old, either watching the show or have parents or even grandparents watching the show with someone in that age profile,
00:15:52.340 what, and this will be my last question to you, Joseph, on your own faith background,
00:15:58.900 but what would you say, what kind of words would you say to try to encourage a young guy who hasn't particularly been taking Christianity seriously in their life,
00:16:16.760 but realises that there's a search for something more profound going on inside his conscience?
00:16:26.400 Well, if you're watching this show, you're already on the right track because you understand that there's something wrong with the world.
00:16:33.360 So my simple question to people would be, what is your glue?
00:16:37.160 What is it that makes all of this stick together?
00:16:40.220 Because the reality is that without a fundamental foundational belief, what we're fighting for is kind of irrelevant.
00:16:47.280 And I discovered that myself because I couldn't make head or tail of why I believe what I believed, only what I believed.
00:16:53.400 And to understand why you believe what you believe, you have to have foundations, be that your husband, wife, or indeed your religion.
00:17:02.480 And I think if you want to properly counter the points of what we would call the enemy, the left, the other side,
00:17:08.540 you have to understand your own first.
00:17:10.380 And I think we don't really do that very well on the right.
00:17:13.920 Religion is one way to do so because it teaches you the fundamental difference between belief and unbelief.
00:17:19.640 Thanks, Joseph.
00:17:23.200 I'll just say for an American audience, you know, you go to America, we'll mention at the end of the show that you are indeed about to fly over to the States.
00:17:30.760 But in America, the people talk to you in the letter or in the bus queue about Jesus Christ.
00:17:36.960 I want to thank you, Joseph, because anyone who's English, who's British, knows that that's simply not the case.
00:17:44.220 Very, very difficult to talk even in loose terms in the English mentality about Christianity.
00:17:52.100 But thanks very much for being willing to talk about your own journey.
00:17:58.360 So I mentioned before that I, myself, I'm a strict convert by definition from the Church of England.
00:18:08.460 There's a report out that came out a few days ago that mentioned one third of Catholic priests in England and Wales are converts.
00:18:20.220 And that's a huge number.
00:18:22.860 Tell me a bit more about what the dynamics were that brought this about.
00:18:28.980 And over what time period are we talking?
00:18:30.740 What were the factors there?
00:18:33.280 Well, we've got to go back to the creation of something called the Personal Ordinariate of Our Lady of Walsingham,
00:18:39.700 which is a mission that was set up by Pope Benedict to essentially bring back elements of the Anglican faith to full communion with Rome.
00:18:54.780 That was obviously in the early 2000s.
00:18:57.500 And since then, we've seen a boom in conversions from the Church of England to the Catholic faith.
00:19:03.620 There were a few things that had started helping that process even before with the ordination of women priests in the Anglican rite,
00:19:12.040 which many people felt was anti-biblical.
00:19:15.520 And that was going back, of course, even earlier.
00:19:18.840 And some high profile conversions, notably a few politicians who joined the Catholic faith around that time.
00:19:27.280 And then what's happened since is two things.
00:19:30.020 Of course, the state of the Catholic Church hasn't been particularly great since the abdication of Pope Benedict.
00:19:36.300 But the Church of England has certainly been far, far ahead of them in the woke curve.
00:19:40.700 It's essentially become nothing more than a massive green hedge fund for most people, perhaps with elements of transgenderism now.
00:19:49.480 But, you know, with the latest kind of spiralling into blessings on gay marriage and various different interpretations of Christianity within the Church of England,
00:20:01.440 you're saying young people look something more solid and finding it, I think, in the Catholic Church.
00:20:06.300 But the same is true for clergy.
00:20:07.600 That's not just a young people phenomenon.
00:20:09.840 And it's those who are thinking Anglican clergy have tended to trace their roots.
00:20:15.280 And I'd like to also point to something else very important, which is the recent elevation of Cardinal John Henry Newman, now saint,
00:20:23.380 to doctor of the Church by the reigning pontiff.
00:20:27.880 And that's very significant because regardless of what you think of the papacy right now,
00:20:32.240 it shows the direction of travel as far as the Anglican communion is concerned.
00:20:36.800 And I think we'll see more fruit from that.
00:20:41.540 I have a low opinion, seeing as you asked.
00:20:45.780 It was a rhetorical question, but I will leap at it to answer.
00:20:48.960 I have a very low opinion of the present pontificate and its immediate successor and its immediate predecessor.
00:20:57.640 And one of the reasons is, especially with Bergoglio of Unhappy Memory,
00:21:03.240 there are the stories of Protestants going to him saying,
00:21:08.420 we're thinking about converting to the Catholic Church.
00:21:13.420 And he would say, no, no, no, stay where you are.
00:21:16.660 Well, yeah, I think, honestly, if I can put this in a nutshell,
00:21:24.080 that no matter who is sitting on the throne of Peter and what their real disposition is,
00:21:29.040 God still finds ways to work.
00:21:30.800 I noticed this with the year of St. Joseph, which I thought was particularly prominent and meaningful.
00:21:37.000 Obviously, we've noticed this with the Jubilee year.
00:21:39.700 And the elevation of Cardinal John Henry Newman to the doctorate of the church,
00:21:43.960 of course, his famous quote being,
00:21:45.860 if you're steeped enough in history, you cease to be Protestant,
00:21:49.960 has very significant impact.
00:21:51.660 It's almost like the march of the church cannot be halted even by one or two potential antipopes,
00:21:57.160 regardless of what people think of their position.
00:22:00.800 Whether you are, at this stage, believing that they are endorsing formal heresy is kind of besides the point,
00:22:08.260 because the saints are still in their heaven and God's in his heaven and all's right with the world.
00:22:13.080 And so they can't really stop all of this stuff.
00:22:16.200 I think that that's a very significant appointment.
00:22:18.560 I think regardless of what Leo thinks of it privately, the reality is that we are dealing with a new doctorate of the church and therefore fruits will come of that.
00:22:28.020 What do you think?
00:22:31.360 Tell me more about what you think.
00:22:33.620 We have a couple of minutes left, two or three minutes left of this block.
00:22:38.020 What I'd like you to do using your political analysis is to say if you were an advisor to the Church of England or to the Catholic Church,
00:22:45.900 to either of them, to either communions, what would you say would be, in a couple of words,
00:22:53.700 the synthesis for the collapse going on in the Church of England and specifically what not to do in the Catholic Church
00:23:03.920 if the Catholic Church doesn't want to go down the same road?
00:23:06.020 Well, don't live a lie.
00:23:10.800 I mean, the Church of England has been living a lie since its inception.
00:23:14.980 You can argue the positions of Calvin.
00:23:17.340 You can argue the positions of Luther.
00:23:19.600 You can argue the positions of Knox.
00:23:22.660 You can't argue the positions of Henry VIII.
00:23:25.360 He was a Catholic who decided that he preferred the lusts of the flesh to the whims of Rome.
00:23:31.340 And so he created his new church and he founded a new church.
00:23:35.740 And it's a church that is in bed with adultery from the very beginning.
00:23:40.080 So what more is there to say?
00:23:42.200 For the Catholic Church, the message would be, don't follow the same.
00:23:47.540 Because quite frankly, you know, I think one of the biggest problems in the hierarchies,
00:23:53.260 which we've talked about many times, is this willingness to engage and at times submit to the world.
00:24:00.780 And so it's very simple.
00:24:01.840 People want more than that.
00:24:02.980 We can talk all day long about the communist infiltration in the church because it's another favorite topic of mine.
00:24:08.480 And I think it mirrors quite exactly what's happening in the British state right now.
00:24:12.360 I would even go so far back as to talk about the parallels between Disraeli and Pope Leo, the original.
00:24:20.340 Because there were, at the same time, warnings both in the Vatican and in the Parliament of the United Kingdom about the secret societies.
00:24:28.380 It's a very similar and striking parallel.
00:24:30.680 This is how communism and Freemasonry undermine institutions.
00:24:34.700 We can go into that conversation separately.
00:24:36.860 Just give me 60 seconds about the infiltration of communism inside the Catholic Church.
00:24:44.820 Well, in a nutshell, you have a very powerful group of people from two different parties,
00:24:52.580 one being the Communist Party, which directly wanted to subvert the Catholic Church
00:24:56.560 and ended up facilitating the engagement and deployment of tens of thousands of mainly homosexual men
00:25:05.380 in seminaries across the 1940s and 50s and the 60s and the subsequent results we're seeing.
00:25:11.920 And we have another group called the Carbonari, who were an Italian mafia, a grand lodge of Freemasonry
00:25:18.440 who wanted to elect a pope after their own heart and pursued that path for about 100 and something years
00:25:24.840 and ended up actually putting out their commiserations when Francis died.
00:25:29.380 So I think you can read into that from all you wish.
00:25:34.200 In the 1940s and 1950s, exactly as you say, there was a Soviet plan to infiltrate the Catholic Church from within
00:25:41.900 with huge numbers of ideologically communist but also homosexual priests to destroy the Church from within.
00:25:49.200 And all of these priests that they got in to the Catholic Church around the world in the tens of thousands
00:25:55.300 were basically sort of bishops and cardinals at the time of the Second Vatican Council,
00:26:03.400 so-called Second Vatican Council, and the fruits of that are visible to everyone.
00:26:08.380 Interestingly, we know so much about that infiltration that was taking place between the 40s and the 50s
00:26:14.780 because the leader of the U.S. Communists at that time, whose name was Bella Dodd,
00:26:20.040 converted to Catholicism.
00:26:21.600 She was brought into the Church by Archbishop Fulton Sheen.
00:26:25.900 And after she converted, she spilled the beans.
00:26:28.680 And she testified in front of the House and American Activities Committee by Senator McCarthy.
00:26:36.480 And that is really all fruit to the charisma of one man, Archbishop Fulton Sheen.
00:26:43.080 And if only we had a couple of like him today, I think the Church would be in a very different position.
00:26:49.540 Folks, stand by.
00:26:50.720 We'll be back to continue to digest the recent developments in the Catholic Church over the last seven days
00:26:56.260 with Joseph Robertson in two minutes.
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00:31:27.920 Welcome back.
00:31:30.480 Well, staying on with the theme then of the situation of Christianity in America.
00:31:36.320 Joseph Robertson, you've got some information here about the current state of Christianity in America,
00:31:46.120 specifically whether it's dying.
00:31:48.360 And I know we discussed this Gallup poll on the show when it came out a short while ago
00:31:54.040 that suggested that the percentage of U.S. adults who say religion is an important part of their daily life
00:32:01.980 has dropped from 66% in 2015 to 49% in 2025.
00:32:11.200 That's in 10 years.
00:32:13.260 In one decade, it's fallen from two-thirds to just under, a fraction under one-half.
00:32:19.420 And there's some analysis here on the back of that.
00:32:23.740 Tell me about the general situation of this survey and how to break it down.
00:32:31.880 I think, first of all, it kind of reflects the political reality as well, which is an important point to note.
00:32:37.400 The country in America, as far as I can see from this side of the pond, is divided pretty much in half,
00:32:43.200 much as our country was after Brexit.
00:32:45.540 And so it's no surprise to really find Christianity in the same way inclined
00:32:50.580 when you consider that one-half of America subscribes to a communist authoritarian regime,
00:32:55.920 much as half of our country appears to do also.
00:32:59.560 So there are, again, striking parallels between state and church.
00:33:03.040 What I would add is that I don't think Christianity is declining,
00:33:05.940 and I don't think this poll means much,
00:33:07.620 because we're also seeing huge levels of conversion in all the right places.
00:33:12.680 And so what I would really say is that Christianity is consolidating.
00:33:17.140 Because if you go back decades, people haven't really believed what they confessed to believe,
00:33:21.680 even when the numbers were much higher.
00:33:23.840 If you break down the beliefs of Catholics, for instance, in the US,
00:33:26.820 I think within the New Right Church, there was at one point, I think,
00:33:32.440 something like 70% that didn't believe in the real presence of the Eucharist,
00:33:36.280 which if you're a Catholic is a core tenet.
00:33:38.020 And so we're really just getting people fall, I guess, into their proper categories,
00:33:43.880 which is whether or not they authentically believe in Christianity.
00:33:46.800 That's, I think, an extremely profound analysis of what is not just Christianity in America,
00:33:58.540 but Christianity in the beginning of the third millennium.
00:34:02.660 That is exactly the case, that people recite creeds, they recite things,
00:34:08.780 but they don't fundamentally believe anymore in the supernatural truth of the elements of the faith,
00:34:17.640 that they, even with goodwill, let's assume goodwill, that they claim to believe.
00:34:23.540 And I would suggest one of the great missions for not just the Catholic Church,
00:34:30.300 all expressions of Christianity moving forward is to help people to uncover for themselves
00:34:41.480 whether they really do actually believe what the tenets of their faith say.
00:34:46.420 That is really the fundamental mission, I think, to put in.
00:34:53.840 And that's why liturgy is so important,
00:34:56.700 because it nourishes a sense of good liturgy,
00:35:06.360 nourishes a sense of the supernatural, right?
00:35:08.560 And the gospel message is supernatural all the way through.
00:35:14.300 It is above nature. It commands nature.
00:35:18.100 And I think you absolutely got that a thousand percent right in that analysis.
00:35:25.200 What would you say to people listening to this show?
00:35:27.440 People with goodwill, right?
00:35:30.540 I'm not saying that our hiring shepherds are acting with goodwill.
00:35:35.300 I think they're acting in bad faith, that they don't believe the faith.
00:35:40.180 They know they don't believe the faith,
00:35:42.180 and they want to try and destroy other people from believing it.
00:35:45.300 But in terms of the laity, the faithful,
00:35:47.860 there might be a slightly different dynamic going on there.
00:35:51.280 Could you just try, what would you say to people who are listening to the show today
00:35:55.600 who identify as Christian, to use the contemporary expression,
00:36:01.920 they might go to church.
00:36:03.160 Let's say they go to church every Sunday.
00:36:08.740 And they don't necessarily believe the supernatural truths of the narrative,
00:36:14.960 but they haven't confronted internally the fact that they don't actually believe that.
00:36:19.520 What would you say to them as if it were to give the red pill
00:36:23.740 to try and encourage people to have that wider supernatural horizon?
00:36:29.960 Well, I think it's interesting to look back on what we experienced
00:36:35.680 when Jordan Peterson first burst onto the scene
00:36:38.380 and was telling young men to tidy their bedrooms.
00:36:41.440 It was this sort of idea that first you get yourself in order
00:36:44.180 and you get your house in order before you turn to other things.
00:36:47.500 And while we can lambast the hierarchy completely correctly
00:36:50.720 and certainly overturn some of the tables of the tax collectors in the temple right now,
00:36:55.020 what we really need to be doing is looking at our own communities and our own selves
00:36:59.440 and assessing, like you said, what does it actually mean to be Christian?
00:37:05.220 And for me, the reality is that most people don't really know the answer.
00:37:08.560 The answer is actually very simple,
00:37:10.320 to live as Christ commanded and to start with your own family first.
00:37:15.260 And that's not to preach some kind of moralistic concept.
00:37:18.780 It's just the fact that when you do that,
00:37:21.160 when you start with those basic building blocks,
00:37:23.960 everything else gets a lot better a lot quicker
00:37:26.100 because you see the impact so much more quickly on your parish
00:37:29.320 and your parish impacts your local area,
00:37:31.800 your local area impacts your governance
00:37:33.360 and your governance ultimately starts turning again to God.
00:37:36.520 Now, I'm not suggesting that we don't need a top-down revolution
00:37:39.160 because otherwise it wouldn't be in politics
00:37:40.880 and I wouldn't be advocating for that.
00:37:42.720 But I also think that there can be a bottom-up revolution
00:37:45.260 and we're seeing it particularly in the Catholic Church
00:37:47.580 with young families returning to tradition
00:37:49.360 because wherever they go, others follow
00:37:51.640 and what they find is a happier and better quality of life.
00:37:55.300 Of course, their quality of life will be better when they're married,
00:37:58.380 when they're having children,
00:37:59.400 when they can associate with other young adults
00:38:01.280 in a refreshing and normal environment,
00:38:03.820 which, you know, to actually steal from my parish priest sermon last Sunday,
00:38:09.140 Canon Martin Edwards, who I'll give a shout out to,
00:38:11.200 who regularly appears on GB News
00:38:13.300 and is a wonderful advocate for the faith,
00:38:15.820 he said in his sermon that pointing to the dais,
00:38:20.340 which I thought had always been built up above the church for the choir,
00:38:24.600 it was actually built to accommodate 100 extra people
00:38:27.260 because they had to open every wall of the church,
00:38:29.700 this is in the 60s,
00:38:31.460 to accommodate those people who were coming to mass on a Sunday.
00:38:34.860 Well, now we consider ourselves a fairly strong congregation
00:38:39.040 and we don't even fully fill three quarters of the church.
00:38:42.500 So just to point out what happens when faith is adhered to,
00:38:47.040 it's not all about the spiritual.
00:38:48.720 The spiritual feeds the physical
00:38:50.340 and the physical in turn gets much better.
00:38:52.480 And I think people took their faith more seriously.
00:38:55.220 Things might get a lot better.
00:38:56.500 Yeah, I remember seeing that
00:39:01.440 sophologists who study,
00:39:06.720 no, not sophologists, they study poles,
00:39:10.140 the demographers had studied the way
00:39:12.580 in the golden age of the 1950s,
00:39:15.900 had studied the number of conversions
00:39:18.380 from Protestantism to Catholicism.
00:39:21.880 This is in the 50s.
00:39:22.580 And they said that if that rate continues
00:39:25.760 by the end of this present century,
00:39:28.740 there would be no Protestants left in America
00:39:30.640 because they would have all converted.
00:39:33.720 That is how strong the Catholic Church was in the 1950s,
00:39:38.520 in Fulton Sheen's heyday, by the way.
00:39:42.540 And our Highlink shepherds took a sledgehammer to that
00:39:49.440 and absolutely smashed it to pieces
00:39:51.380 and they did it deliberately.
00:39:52.900 And I think one of the reasons that they did that
00:39:54.420 is exactly the point that you were just saying
00:39:56.820 in the first half of the show
00:39:58.200 because of the communist infiltration
00:40:02.040 in the Catholic Church.
00:40:04.960 You said something that I just want to ask you
00:40:07.220 if I can.
00:40:08.400 You know what, I'll throw you the question,
00:40:11.180 then I'll give another shout out to our sponsors
00:40:13.900 and then I'll come back for your take on it.
00:40:15.520 I want you to say a quick bit more
00:40:17.560 if you wouldn't mind about believing
00:40:20.500 in top-down revolution, if you will,
00:40:25.000 in politics, but bottom-up revolution
00:40:27.380 with regards to the church.
00:40:29.920 I'm interested in that dynamic
00:40:32.160 and what you might mean by it.
00:40:34.600 And we'll come to you in two minutes,
00:40:36.380 90 seconds for your breakdown on that.
00:40:38.600 I mentioned Birch Gold in the first half of the show.
00:40:45.140 I'm going to do that again.
00:40:45.860 I'll just give you the number once again.
00:40:49.060 If you want to speak to Philip Patrick
00:40:51.920 and his team about rolling an existing IRA
00:40:55.320 or even an IRA 401k into an IRA in gold,
00:41:00.960 and that's Bannon, you need to text Bannon,
00:41:04.560 B-A-N-N-O-N, to 989898.
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00:42:44.760 Joseph Robertson, just to give you, if you wouldn't mind,
00:42:48.400 just tell me what you meant by that sort of contrary direction
00:42:53.940 between activism in the church and activism in politics.
00:43:02.380 Well, ultimately, the only way we triumph is through kingship,
00:43:09.120 the kingship of Christ the King.
00:43:11.140 And so ultimately, the only way we will triumph
00:43:13.560 is through top-down glorious restoration,
00:43:16.600 rather than using the word revolution,
00:43:18.360 which is a filthy communist word, of course.
00:43:20.760 But to use the word restoration,
00:43:24.200 we will see at some point, of course,
00:43:27.060 according to pretty much all prophecy and scripture
00:43:30.520 and tradition, a triumph of Christ the King.
00:43:33.560 And if you're Catholic, of course,
00:43:35.100 you believe that that comes through the reign
00:43:36.760 of an angelic pope and an angelic monarch
00:43:40.120 who worked together in harmony
00:43:41.720 to restore Catholic civilization.
00:43:44.320 And so you can't take away the fact
00:43:48.760 that top-down and political infrastructure is important.
00:43:52.460 But what you can say is that for that to be affected
00:43:55.940 and for change to be given the right grounding
00:43:59.760 and environment to thrive in,
00:44:02.440 you have to at first start with your community.
00:44:05.500 And as I mentioned, Jordan Peterson,
00:44:07.540 I think if Jordan had also been a developed Christian,
00:44:11.420 his message would have gone even further, perhaps.
00:44:14.320 than it already did,
00:44:15.420 because tidying your bedroom is all very well,
00:44:17.680 but to what end and to what purpose?
00:44:19.980 And thus, you have to consider deeper questions in life.
00:44:22.820 Why am I here?
00:44:23.500 What am I here for?
00:44:24.780 And what can I do for others
00:44:26.120 as opposed to what can I do purely for myself?
00:44:28.800 And when you start to ask those questions,
00:44:30.440 you will see very quickly
00:44:31.660 that everything around you becomes far better.
00:44:33.920 As we saw, I believe, with individuals like Charlie Kirk,
00:44:36.820 who in my mind was the ultimate story of someone
00:44:40.660 who perhaps didn't start out as fundamental
00:44:42.560 in their beliefs as he nobly and heroically died.
00:44:46.500 But he certainly became a light to those around him,
00:44:50.420 not just politically, but also in his family
00:44:52.260 and in the upbringing of their children.
00:44:55.160 And so he was able to do a lot more positive impacts
00:44:58.500 than he would have done
00:44:59.280 if he had purely focused on the secular and the political.
00:45:01.600 Yeah, that's the importance about the supernatural narrative,
00:45:15.800 I think, that underlays the political.
00:45:19.040 Look, our fight is not against flesh and blood.
00:45:22.760 It's against thrones, dominations, powers,
00:45:26.580 what is it, in the spiritual realm.
00:45:28.540 And that's fundamentally the battle that's taking place.
00:45:32.560 What we see here in the political sphere
00:45:34.300 is a reflection.
00:45:37.400 It's a manifestation of that deep underlying spiritual battle.
00:45:43.260 And I think what you see, you know,
00:45:44.260 and I think both the way Charlie Kirk lived,
00:45:46.740 the way he died,
00:45:47.920 is an illustration of that
00:45:49.620 for those who have eyes to see.
00:45:51.560 I think that's a good point, well made.
00:45:56.940 And I think and I expect,
00:45:59.720 as we've been talking about on this show for some time,
00:46:02.220 that the graphic and public nature
00:46:06.060 of Charlie Kirk's martyrdom
00:46:09.480 is leading and will lead
00:46:11.660 to a very strong revival,
00:46:14.940 not only in America,
00:46:15.960 but elsewhere in the world.
00:46:17.660 Charlie Kirk, that's how time flies.
00:46:21.840 We only have a few moments left.
00:46:23.920 Tell me about the statue,
00:46:26.780 the new statue that's been erected in Brazil
00:46:29.580 to Our Lady of Fatima.
00:46:31.660 Because looking at the statistics,
00:46:33.880 the statue itself is substantial,
00:46:37.220 it's not just larger than the Statue of Liberty,
00:46:39.180 the statue part of the Statue of Liberty,
00:46:41.480 it's significantly larger,
00:46:43.500 like 177 foot for the statue,
00:46:49.000 which we see here on the screen,
00:46:50.420 compared to 150 foot for the Statue of Liberty.
00:46:53.020 Tell me why the Brazilians done this.
00:46:55.740 Why have they erected this statue?
00:46:58.700 Well, that comparison is an important one
00:47:00.660 because I don't want to sound heretical
00:47:03.660 to your American viewership,
00:47:05.460 but of course the Statue of Liberty
00:47:06.700 is modelled more or less
00:47:08.700 on a French prostitute
00:47:09.820 if you go back into history.
00:47:11.880 And it's quite interesting
00:47:13.400 that Our Lady has triumphed
00:47:15.580 in that regard again.
00:47:17.840 But leaving that analogy to one side,
00:47:20.140 I think that this is important
00:47:21.380 because it shows that the church
00:47:22.980 is alive and well in many ways
00:47:25.200 that can't necessarily be seen
00:47:26.360 in the hierarchy,
00:47:27.280 that people do still have
00:47:28.300 a fundamental belief
00:47:29.500 in where we're being led,
00:47:32.380 if not by our pastors,
00:47:34.220 then certainly by God himself.
00:47:36.280 And ultimately what this story signifies
00:47:39.260 is something far deeper,
00:47:40.360 which is a belief
00:47:41.540 in the apparitions of Fatima,
00:47:44.140 which of course,
00:47:44.980 if your viewers are educated
00:47:46.400 on this topic,
00:47:47.660 they will know was something
00:47:49.080 that was proclaimed
00:47:50.080 not just by Catholics,
00:47:51.160 but also by atheists,
00:47:52.560 by communists, in fact,
00:47:53.700 who saw it take place,
00:47:55.340 the apparition of Our Lady of Fatima
00:47:56.740 to three small children
00:47:59.040 in a town in Portugal
00:48:00.200 in the early 1900s,
00:48:01.900 which led to correct prophecies
00:48:04.400 on the outbreak
00:48:04.960 of the Second World War,
00:48:06.040 of the overtake of communism,
00:48:07.880 of the overtake of the church,
00:48:09.460 of infiltration,
00:48:10.460 of counter-revolution,
00:48:12.300 and ultimately of the triumph
00:48:14.160 of the Immaculate Heart of Mary,
00:48:15.920 which I think is such an important
00:48:18.200 and vital signal.
00:48:19.440 And of course,
00:48:20.440 you know,
00:48:21.040 the significance of South America
00:48:22.440 can't be lost on anyone.
00:48:23.960 The fact that so much of the faith
00:48:26.360 is still thriving there,
00:48:27.380 even if it's tainted
00:48:28.240 in some parts by modernism.
00:48:29.600 And it shows this story,
00:48:32.560 I think,
00:48:32.720 a message of hope
00:48:33.500 that ultimately,
00:48:35.440 you know,
00:48:35.980 things are under control.
00:48:38.060 The patriots are in control
00:48:39.420 and they're in heaven.
00:48:42.240 What can you,
00:48:43.260 can you give me 60 seconds,
00:48:44.980 90 seconds
00:48:45.580 on the elements
00:48:46.580 of the Fatima,
00:48:48.020 the Our Lady of Fatima
00:48:48.880 apparitions?
00:48:51.080 Because I think
00:48:51.500 it's an incredible story.
00:48:52.840 I have a very strong
00:48:53.480 devotion to it.
00:48:56.220 Yeah, well,
00:48:56.440 it's a very important devotion
00:48:57.800 and to anybody,
00:48:58.960 Protestant or Catholic alike,
00:49:00.540 or even atheist
00:49:01.480 who's watching,
00:49:02.620 I would encourage you
00:49:03.500 to go and to,
00:49:05.160 to look into it more deeply
00:49:06.720 because the reality is
00:49:08.540 that it's a,
00:49:09.400 it's a very,
00:49:10.080 very important story
00:49:11.120 and one that can't be
00:49:12.740 overlooked in our present times.
00:49:15.560 Now,
00:49:16.480 I would encourage your viewers
00:49:17.800 to go and read about it
00:49:19.600 rather than for me
00:49:20.260 to tell them
00:49:20.740 because there's a very
00:49:21.380 significant part of it
00:49:22.880 that I think most people
00:49:23.720 don't know.
00:49:24.700 And that's the significance
00:49:25.860 of the name Fatima
00:49:27.100 itself.
00:49:28.300 So the town of Fatima
00:49:29.820 is called Fatima
00:49:31.380 because it was
00:49:33.420 the location
00:49:34.380 where a young
00:49:35.360 Catholic Portuguese
00:49:36.580 slash Spanish
00:49:37.800 prince fell in love
00:49:39.840 with a Muslim girl
00:49:40.760 named Fatima.
00:49:41.760 And of course,
00:49:42.240 Fatima is the highest
00:49:43.280 of Mohammed's daughters
00:49:44.620 in the Islamic belief.
00:49:46.160 He fell in love
00:49:46.840 with her after
00:49:47.480 he had also killed
00:49:48.460 her father
00:49:49.060 in a war
00:49:50.260 and taken the town
00:49:51.320 which later became Fatima.
00:49:53.400 And he married her.
00:49:54.540 She converted to Catholicism
00:49:55.880 and she became such
00:49:56.820 a good and holy woman
00:49:57.720 that the town folk
00:49:58.620 called her town
00:49:59.720 Fatima.
00:50:01.020 Now,
00:50:01.300 that's very important
00:50:01.940 because if Fatima
00:50:02.680 is the highest daughter
00:50:03.520 of Mohammed
00:50:04.000 and Our Lady
00:50:04.740 is,
00:50:05.240 after all,
00:50:05.680 in Catholic tradition
00:50:07.240 the person who
00:50:08.140 triumphs over the
00:50:09.060 crescent moon
00:50:09.900 and I think there's
00:50:10.680 an important point
00:50:11.580 to take there.
00:50:13.240 Triumphing in Fatima
00:50:14.340 and appearing in Fatima
00:50:15.460 in her glorious
00:50:16.020 and final form
00:50:16.780 as Queen
00:50:17.240 is quite a significant
00:50:18.520 thing
00:50:18.940 and I'll let you
00:50:20.020 continue on that thought.
00:50:22.000 No,
00:50:23.680 I had no idea
00:50:25.000 about that.
00:50:26.000 I always thought
00:50:26.460 it was strange
00:50:26.980 that there was a town
00:50:27.820 in Portugal
00:50:28.560 being such a strong
00:50:30.020 Catholic nation
00:50:32.420 had a town
00:50:33.700 that was named
00:50:34.360 after,
00:50:35.800 I think it was
00:50:36.380 Mohammed,
00:50:36.860 wasn't Fatima Mohammed?
00:50:38.680 No,
00:50:39.260 no,
00:50:39.440 you're right.
00:50:39.900 Yeah,
00:50:40.380 that's right,
00:50:40.700 his daughter.
00:50:42.600 I always thought
00:50:43.080 that was a bit odd
00:50:44.060 and I never quite
00:50:45.820 understood the background
00:50:46.900 of that.
00:50:47.540 Well,
00:50:47.680 she's considered,
00:50:48.400 Fatima in Islamic culture
00:50:50.040 is considered
00:50:50.620 the highest woman
00:50:51.320 in heaven,
00:50:51.840 even above
00:50:52.400 the mother of Jesus
00:50:53.200 and of course
00:50:53.800 I think this was
00:50:54.440 a subtle way
00:50:55.600 from heaven
00:50:56.080 to crack that balance.
00:51:01.960 Joseph Robertson,
00:51:02.980 thanks very much
00:51:03.840 for taking time
00:51:05.280 to come on the show today.
00:51:07.220 I know you're preparing
00:51:07.780 to go to America.
00:51:08.760 Very quickly,
00:51:09.580 what are you doing
00:51:10.380 in America
00:51:10.920 when you're leaving?
00:51:11.940 Can people reach out
00:51:12.900 to you there?
00:51:14.820 Yeah,
00:51:15.200 absolutely.
00:51:15.640 I'll be in Texas
00:51:16.920 for the first half
00:51:17.720 of next week,
00:51:18.540 then in DC
00:51:19.140 for the weekend.
00:51:20.440 Brief trip to New York,
00:51:21.300 welcome them
00:51:21.800 back to DC
00:51:22.520 and if anyone
00:51:23.580 is around
00:51:24.060 they can reach me
00:51:24.740 on Twitter
00:51:25.200 at JRtykes
00:51:26.760 also on my
00:51:28.200 sub stack
00:51:28.680 of the same name
00:51:29.480 or on Instagram
00:51:30.460 Joseph Robertson UK
00:51:32.200 and I'm out there
00:51:34.140 doing some very
00:51:34.760 interesting things.
00:51:35.660 There's a new show
00:51:36.300 launching
00:51:36.860 which I can't
00:51:37.820 talk about just yet
00:51:38.820 but which I suggest
00:51:40.360 people stay tuned
00:51:41.400 on and find out more.
00:51:43.960 That is literally
00:51:47.000 all we have time for.
00:51:47.980 Wish you a safe
00:51:48.520 journey out there
00:51:49.240 and a safe return
00:51:50.260 Joseph.
00:51:50.820 Many thanks.
00:51:51.360 Thanks to all
00:51:52.260 Americans
00:51:52.780 for Thanksgiving
00:51:53.760 tomorrow.
00:51:54.580 Thanks to Wendell
00:51:55.380 and his great team
00:51:56.420 at Real America's
00:51:57.460 Voices.
00:51:57.720 Okay, let's be honest.
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