Bannon's War Room - December 09, 2025


WarRoom Battleground EP 907： Selling Out American Intelligence To China; Cold War Over Chips


Episode Stats

Length

53 minutes

Words per Minute

163.91747

Word Count

8,768

Sentence Count

658

Misogynist Sentences

4

Hate Speech Sentences

20


Summary

Ben Harnwell and Michael Sobolik join us in the War Room to talk about artificial intelligence, the CCP, and geopolitics with a special guest. This episode is brought to you by Sacred Human Health and JustGiving.


Transcript

00:00:00.000 This is the primal scream of a dying regime.
00:00:07.680 Pray for our enemies, because we're going medieval on these people.
00:00:12.940 I got a free shot at all these networks lying about the people.
00:00:17.200 The people have had a belly full of it.
00:00:19.120 I know you don't like hearing that.
00:00:20.540 I know you try to do everything in the world to stop that,
00:00:22.300 but you're not going to stop it.
00:00:23.240 It's going to happen.
00:00:24.500 And where do people like that go to share the big lie?
00:00:27.900 Mega Media.
00:00:28.800 I wish in my soul, I wish that any of these people had a conscience.
00:00:34.700 Ask yourself, what is my task and what is my purpose?
00:00:38.440 If that answer is to save my country, this country will be saved.
00:00:44.800 War Room. Here's your host, Stephen K. Bannon.
00:00:53.160 Tuesday, 9 December, Year of Alert 2025.
00:00:55.560 Thank you for the second hour of our late afternoon, early evening edition of the War Room.
00:01:01.160 I have a very special guest going to join us in a minute.
00:01:03.400 Michael Sobolik, a senior fellow from the Hudson Institute.
00:01:06.080 We're going to be talking chips, the CCP, and geopolitics.
00:01:10.500 Ben Harnwell, also from Rome, is staying up late to join us.
00:01:15.240 I want to go because I was able to grab him this morning.
00:01:19.720 Trevor Comstock's here.
00:01:21.040 Trevor, I want to make sure this is the run-up to the holiday season,
00:01:23.920 particularly with the Make America Healthy Again, our coalition partners,
00:01:28.020 that would give people total access to sacred human health.
00:01:31.000 You've got another product.
00:01:32.040 You did great this morning.
00:01:33.240 People piled into it.
00:01:34.820 Talk to me about your product you have to keep us sharp and keep us focused.
00:01:40.840 What do you got for us, sir?
00:01:42.540 Yeah, I got you.
00:01:44.060 Real quick, just a heads up.
00:01:45.760 We are dropping a new product very soon here.
00:01:48.160 It was supposed to be rolled out a few days ago, but we had to make an edit to the label.
00:01:51.180 But I'm excited to talk about that, so stay tuned.
00:01:53.300 But, yeah, in regards to the creatine, we've been having amazing success with it,
00:01:59.140 a lot of great feedback as well from the War Room Posse.
00:02:02.040 And for anyone that doesn't know, just a little background on the creatine.
00:02:05.180 What's really unique about it is that it's one of the most studied and effective nutrients available,
00:02:10.520 and it supports things like a healthy brain as well as memory and cognitive function.
00:02:15.360 So it essentially helps your brain produce more energy,
00:02:18.780 which does things like improve mental clarity and focus,
00:02:21.560 especially if you tend to be sleep-deprived or fatigued.
00:02:24.860 I use it every day as well.
00:02:26.360 I take about 5 milligrams, which is the standard dose,
00:02:28.460 and I always feel super clean on it, especially during my morning workouts.
00:02:32.460 But, you know, if you want to compare it to, you know,
00:02:36.140 your average brain booster or brain supplement on the market,
00:02:39.140 those can sometimes be beneficial, but more oftentimes than not,
00:02:42.020 they just contain a bunch of junk ingredients, fake ingredients, if you will,
00:02:45.940 a lot of preservatives that really don't do anything beneficial.
00:02:48.440 Whereas creatine is, again, one of the most studied and effective nutrients in history.
00:02:53.120 You can even Google that if you want.
00:02:55.000 But it's super popular for that specific reason.
00:02:58.280 And also, like I mentioned in regards to the morning workouts,
00:03:01.100 it also helps your muscles produce more energy and recover a lot faster.
00:03:05.100 So if you are active in the gym or even if you walk a lot or run,
00:03:08.940 creatine is amazing for recovery.
00:03:10.500 I honestly can't recommend it enough.
00:03:11.940 So big for brain, big for muscles, and like I said,
00:03:16.660 the Warman Posse has been loving it.
00:03:17.940 And we only launched it, I think, about a month and a half ago.
00:03:20.560 So I'm excited.
00:03:21.780 Now, the feedback I've gotten on this is huge.
00:03:24.220 Remember, once again, all our sponsors go to the website.
00:03:26.920 Tons of information, tons of receipts.
00:03:28.720 Most importantly, we have a relationship, sorry, that we tell you,
00:03:32.880 you have to have access to the leadership of the company,
00:03:35.400 and you get it here with Trevor.
00:03:37.100 One more time, Trevor, where they go,
00:03:38.540 and particularly to talk to you today if they want to.
00:03:42.340 Yeah.
00:03:43.100 Just go to sacredhumanhealth.com,
00:03:45.200 and then you can use code WARROOM for 10% off at checkout.
00:03:48.540 And then, obviously, if you have any questions,
00:03:50.640 just hit the Contact Us button,
00:03:54.140 and I can answer any questions that you might have.
00:03:58.160 Thank you, sir.
00:03:58.840 Appreciate you.
00:03:59.840 Look forward to having me back.
00:04:01.480 The Maha Movement, Sacred Human Health.
00:04:04.440 Michael Sobolik joins us, Senior Fellow from Hudson.
00:04:07.300 Michael, first, can you just walk people, a quick snapshot,
00:04:10.760 because we're going to get into probably, I think,
00:04:14.120 the most important issue facing us today,
00:04:17.080 artificial intelligence, the drive to AGI and the superintelligence
00:04:20.420 and the geopolitical impact of all this on our national security and the world.
00:04:25.580 Can you just give us a thumbnail of your background?
00:04:29.340 Gladly, Steve.
00:04:30.480 My background, I've been working on U.S.-China relations
00:04:33.300 for a little over a decade in D.C.
00:04:35.360 I was Ted Cruz's China guy in the Senate from 2014 to 2019,
00:04:40.780 and then I've been in the think tank space since then,
00:04:44.100 published a book on China's grand strategy last year
00:04:47.040 called Countering China's Great Game.
00:04:49.100 And I've been at Hudson Institute continuing that strategic work
00:04:53.480 against the Chinese Communist Party over the past year.
00:04:56.580 So help me out here, brother.
00:04:58.220 We're a big fan of your work.
00:04:59.740 This is what I don't get.
00:05:03.080 And particularly, you know, knowing President Trump really on the politics side
00:05:07.840 from about 2014, 2000, I guess, 11, 12, but really 14.
00:05:12.880 He's a guy that really came on the scene,
00:05:14.980 and one of his biggest things besides the Constitution and Board of Immigration
00:05:17.760 was really the confrontation that was coming with China.
00:05:23.000 President Trump's done more on this topic, as you know, than anybody.
00:05:27.040 Yet in the last 72 hours, we've had this kind of group of tech bros saying,
00:05:31.760 arguing, hey, we're at an inflection point on this race for artificial intelligence,
00:05:36.840 artificial general intelligence, superintelligence.
00:05:38.760 We've had kind of a Sputnik moment, right, with Deep Seek.
00:05:42.620 We need the weapons labs turned over to us.
00:05:46.240 We need the national labs turned over to us.
00:05:48.620 Any of these people at all that are talking about any kind of constraints at all
00:05:52.200 are slowing us down in this race against China
00:05:54.920 because the CCP, we're in a dead heat with this,
00:05:57.940 and the CCP cannot become the leaders in this.
00:06:02.120 On the other side, we have the situation.
00:06:04.760 We have Jensen Wong, who I call the arms dealers, right?
00:06:08.580 The arms dealers are telling us it doesn't really matter if China wins
00:06:12.120 or Chinese companies, and, you know, we really want them on our technology,
00:06:15.940 and we should sell them.
00:06:17.320 And the White House has been going through this with Jensen Wong
00:06:20.200 and him making the pitch.
00:06:21.680 Then the Justice Department comes out yesterday and tells us, hey,
00:06:25.200 we've had this huge program to make sure guys can't take these chips
00:06:28.620 and give them the black market because that would give the Chinese,
00:06:31.540 even let them catch up to us.
00:06:33.060 At the same time they announced this deal, the White House announced this deal,
00:06:36.800 we're going to sell some of the most advanced chips in the world
00:06:39.480 to the Chinese Communist Party and give them the chance to get parity with us.
00:06:44.360 Just step back for a second and please make this make sense to our audience, sir.
00:06:50.720 The president should be very upset with the people around him
00:06:54.920 and nearby him who are encouraging him to approve the sale.
00:06:58.720 It was striking and, I would say, even embarrassing timing for the administration
00:07:05.900 that that Department of Justice announcement came out
00:07:09.360 just minutes after President Trump's approval for NVIDIA to sell those chips to China.
00:07:16.060 It was striking that the news release from DOJ said that these chips have military potential
00:07:23.120 and whoever controls and wins the AI race is going to be in a strategically dominant position.
00:07:30.160 Michael, Michael, Michael, hang on, hang on, Michael, hang on.
00:07:32.940 I thought it was actually, I thought it was a phony announcement.
00:07:36.700 I thought it was one of these memes that gets put up that's completely phony.
00:07:40.280 The timing of it was so bizarre that I thought somebody trying to make fun of the president
00:07:46.880 or the White House had put this out and it was just totally made up.
00:07:50.400 It turns out it's not. It just happened to come out from the Justice Department at the same time.
00:07:55.340 Tie those two together.
00:07:56.780 What did the Justice Department's massive investigation uncover that they're indicting people
00:08:03.640 versus what Jensen Huang really talked to the president, talked president's advisors into doing?
00:08:11.100 Jensen Huang has been speaking out of multiple sides of his mouth for months now.
00:08:16.920 He's told the president that we don't need to worry about their high-end chips being smuggled or diverted to China.
00:08:24.360 He's either said it's not happening or then he says it is happening, but you don't need to worry about it.
00:08:28.760 Just let us sell directly.
00:08:30.360 That DOJ announcement was saying in loud, bright technicolor that there are smuggling attempts from Chinese agents
00:08:39.660 to get these highly advanced AI chips that are controlled and banned from being exported to China.
00:08:48.000 And it underscores, I think, some of the dishonesty coming from industry, from NVIDIA in particular,
00:08:55.720 this is an issue that companies in China are trying to get the latest and the best technology that we have
00:09:04.140 because they can't make it themselves.
00:09:07.020 And whenever you – that side-by-side was so striking, Steve.
00:09:11.300 It was striking because it was almost an indictment against the very decision that Trump got terrible advice on just a few minutes ago.
00:09:20.940 And I think he should be really upset at the people around him because they are not guiding or directing the policy for the country well at the moment.
00:09:29.560 How can you also argue both sides of this, that we need no restraints whatsoever, turn over the labs,
00:09:40.020 you know, you've got more regulations if you want to open a nail salon on Capitol Hill than you have against the Frontier Labs.
00:09:47.960 At the same time, we are providing the entire ecosystem, not just the chips but also training and capital
00:09:54.380 and know-how for the Chinese Communist Party to be even close to being competitive on this, sir.
00:10:02.000 Yeah, I think if you step back, there are two things with U.S. policy that matter at the same time.
00:10:08.040 Number one, we want – we should want our companies and the American tech stack to dominate the world.
00:10:15.220 That should be in America's interest because we would rather have American technology be dominant
00:10:21.500 as opposed to technology that's controlled by the Chinese Communist Party.
00:10:24.720 However, there is another thing that matters equally as much, which is we need to make sure
00:10:30.320 that only our friends, our allies, and aligned countries with the United States get this technology
00:10:38.280 because this AI wave is going to crest across the whole world,
00:10:43.460 and whoever has access to it will bend it to their interests.
00:10:48.080 And we do not want a Leninist state like the Chinese Communist Party using American technology
00:10:54.420 to threaten Americans.
00:10:56.060 We have seen this story over and over and over again over the past few years
00:11:00.200 with Wall Street enabling the human rights abuses inside of China through their investments,
00:11:06.060 tech transfers from companies allowing the CCP to have bioengineered surveillance.
00:11:11.780 That's terrible, and it's morally atrocious, but what would be really dangerous
00:11:17.560 is if we had the American AI tech stack being leveraged by a foreign adversary
00:11:23.300 to train models for warfare that would be targeting U.S. soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines.
00:11:29.800 That's a huge problem.
00:11:31.280 So when you have people either inside the administration or outside saying that we need to defuse American technology,
00:11:37.160 they're not wrong, but it's an incomplete answer.
00:11:40.500 We need to defuse it to the right partners, which is why we may talk about this in a few minutes,
00:11:47.060 but this is why folks in Congress like Senator Banks and Chairman Mast who were working on legislation recently on this
00:11:54.640 were doing the exact right thing because this should only go to friends, not to enemies.
00:11:59.160 But Jensen Huang and NVIDIA want to sell these crown jewels of American technology to our most dangerous foreign adversary.
00:12:08.820 That's what makes no sense.
00:12:09.940 I mean, the NDAA banks, I think it was the RAINS Act, that had this proposal.
00:12:14.640 We had him on a couple of times.
00:12:15.840 I said, hey, look, if you get these chips available, they go to American companies before they go to any foreign companies.
00:12:20.060 And since the demand so much, they'll never go to a foreign country.
00:12:22.540 That was literally snatched out.
00:12:24.800 At the same moment they were trying to put the AI amnesty to slide it in, they took Banks's out.
00:12:30.480 Now, thank God we were able to get the amnesty out also, and now we're threatened with an executive order.
00:12:35.740 But why would they take – Banks's proposal was so logical, particularly it's America first.
00:12:41.900 It reinforces American industry.
00:12:43.900 It still leaves the possibility that you may be open, but, of course, there's not going to be chips available.
00:12:48.460 Why was Banks's proposal taken out in the dead of night?
00:12:53.240 It was taken out for the exact same reason that we've had these issues with China policy for decades now.
00:13:00.400 Commercial interests have a veto over national security concerns.
00:13:05.440 And the disappointing part about this is that that isn't really a new story in Washington.
00:13:10.780 And I think it speaks to something that you actually brought up a few minutes ago, Steve.
00:13:14.300 On the one hand, nobody has done more to categorically shift America's strategic approach to China than Donald Trump.
00:13:24.400 He took a wrecking ball to decades of conventional wisdom on China in his first term, and he did it rightly.
00:13:30.620 He was entirely justified to do that.
00:13:32.340 We needed a leader to get us out of that muck and stop engaging a Leninist regime economically because they were never going to change politically.
00:13:41.420 But I think it is abundantly clear at this point that you have commercial interests in America that are doing what they, I guess, should be doing, which is maximize their revenue streams, profit margins, and their shareholder values.
00:13:56.400 That's fine so far as it goes.
00:13:59.280 But it's the jobs of elected policymakers and their staff and their advisors to weigh those commercial concerns with security concerns.
00:14:09.100 This is what it means to defend the national interest.
00:14:11.360 And nothing should ever trump the safety and security of the American people.
00:14:16.360 So when you have Jensen Huang making this case to members on Capitol Hill saying that that legislation from Senator Banks, Chairman Mast, and others was going to be a terrible thing for the United States economically or competitively, that's not really true.
00:14:33.180 It would have been less than ideal for NVIDIA, but that's an entirely separate conversation.
00:14:38.820 It's an America first proposal quintessentially to say that U.S. companies should get these critical chips before Chinese companies.
00:14:48.280 And maybe for just a second, let's talk about why.
00:14:51.320 When we talk about these chips, the best analogy that I've come across out there, think about these chips with the AI revolution as uranium with the nuclear revolution in the previous century.
00:15:02.500 Just as uranium, plutonium and the ability to have nuclear power changed the game in every single way, these chips are the upstream component that are powering and enabling the AI revolution.
00:15:17.780 If we allow NVIDIA to sell these very capable chips to a foreign adversary, chips that they themselves cannot design or build for the next two years or so, we're not only helping China run faster, that's essentially a redux of Barack Obama's nuclear deal with Iran, the very deal that Trump got us out of because it was a bad deal.
00:15:41.560 And this is what's so mind-boggling about this.
00:15:45.780 Donald Trump hates weakness, as he should, but the people around him are pushing him into a weak policy.
00:15:56.100 It's really stunning.
00:15:57.640 I want to go back for a second and put this – you framed it, I think, great, because we've had the framing of Graham Allison in the team about the Thucydides trap.
00:16:07.000 When you wrote your book, you kind of turned on your head.
00:16:09.000 You said no.
00:16:09.500 The analogy we've got to look for is what happened between the Russian Empire and the British Empire in the 19th century, the great game, right, which was really about India and a warm water port.
00:16:19.540 And you've got to look at it in the context of that.
00:16:22.060 How does this rate – first of all, before we get to the specifics of what just happened in the last 72 hours, the whole fight for technological supremacy, right?
00:16:31.560 Because the Chinese have had a history, like in 2019, when they tore up the two-year deal that Lighthizer and Navarro negotiated for President Trump, the big deal.
00:16:39.520 They tore it up in our face and said – made a statement.
00:16:42.400 We want to decouple from Western technology.
00:16:45.720 We don't want the foreign devils to control us.
00:16:48.660 Technology has been at the centerpiece of the new great game.
00:16:52.880 Walk us through your framing of this and why it's important to understand it this way than to fall into kind of Graham Allison's Thucydides trap.
00:17:02.000 The Thucydides trap framework is an enticing one because it makes everything very simple of a rising power, a declining power, and that makes the probability of war higher and more dangerous.
00:17:19.040 Sure, that is true, but I think it misses the nuance of what the Chinese Communist Party as a regime is doing.
00:17:28.560 So the reason I honed in on the great game, and I think it's apt and relevant, is because China is more than just this ascendant power that is getting wealthier and stronger.
00:17:40.440 It is now leveraging that power all around the world as China did during its imperial era because it wants what the United States has right now.
00:17:51.560 Xi Jinping wants the People's Republic of China to be the most powerful country on the face of the planet.
00:17:58.560 And he wants this, not for the same reasons that Americans have accepted this position of power.
00:18:04.040 Xi Jinping wants this because the Chinese Communist Party is a paranoid single-party dictatorship, and they cannot rest secure until every single square inch of the globe is something that they can control or channel for their own purposes.
00:18:21.480 It's why they leverage TikTok inside of the United States.
00:18:25.960 It's why they have secret police stations inside of the United States.
00:18:30.400 It is why they cultivate friends and billionaires in high places throughout the United States to launder their own interests through.
00:18:37.280 They are looking to weaken our own system of government and the system of governments of our allies and closest friends around the world because they are playing a global game.
00:18:47.020 And technology helps them do this because it gives them eyes and ears everywhere.
00:18:52.500 This is why you cannot separate technology from ideology.
00:18:57.760 Who you are and what kind of regime you are is going to inform what you use technology for and what ends you try to bend it toward.
00:19:08.000 And the Chinese Communist Party has been abundantly clear.
00:19:10.540 They want DNA samples from every single human on the face of the planet.
00:19:15.680 And we know that the People's Liberation Army is using biotechnology for bioengineered weapons along, among others, racial lines.
00:19:25.340 This is very dangerous stuff that it is not clear to me that we're taking adequately seriously.
00:19:32.820 And it's also why you cannot divorce the AI revolution from the next generation of warfare.
00:19:40.540 This is going to be at the epicenter of great nation conflict.
00:19:45.220 And if we unilaterally cede all of some of our best chips to an adversary, we are no better than Bill Clinton was in the 1990s when he pushed for permanent normal trade relations with China.
00:20:02.320 There are tradeoffs in this world.
00:20:04.820 And it was the hallmark of that decision to think we can have our cake and eat it too.
00:20:08.460 We can get rich and also eliminate the threat from China.
00:20:13.100 That didn't happen.
00:20:14.040 And then Trump came in and corrected it.
00:20:15.640 But now the people around him are pushing him to recreate and repeat the exact same mistake that Bill Clinton and many other politicians at that time made.
00:20:26.420 And to believe this Pollyannish notion that there are no tradeoffs, that we can have it all, we can have our tech companies be wealthy and we can be secure and they can sell to whoever they want and maximize their own private interests, that is not how the world works.
00:20:41.280 And if we don't accept that, we will be in for a rude awakening.
00:20:44.440 A rude awakening.
00:20:46.920 You know, Pete Hex put this video out this morning about AI on the battlefield.
00:20:50.680 I said, man, between the Justice Department announcing the industrial sabotage, industrial espionage to black market these chips out of here.
00:21:00.260 And Pete saying, hey, we're turning the entire military over.
00:21:04.100 Every military individual is going to have an AI agent on the battlefield.
00:21:08.280 It makes no sense.
00:21:09.940 Also, and I realize I take a harsher line than most.
00:21:14.620 What I've been saying for a while now, Jensen Wang is an agent of influence of the Chinese Communist Party.
00:21:19.180 To get back to your point, he's made the statement over and over again.
00:21:22.740 It doesn't matter if China wins the AI race.
00:21:25.640 We're going to all benefit together.
00:21:27.120 It doesn't matter if a Chinese company wins it.
00:21:30.320 It will benefit together.
00:21:31.320 That's just a bald-faced lie.
00:21:32.760 That's just not the way the Chinese Communist Party works, is it, sir?
00:21:37.840 No, it's not at all.
00:21:39.920 The Chinese Communist Party has been deceiving Americans for almost 100 years.
00:21:46.500 If you go back to the 1930s and the 1940s when Mao was trying to make the CCP an actual thing and not just this ragtag party on the run,
00:21:57.120 one of the reasons they won the Civil War in China after kicking Imperial Japan out was by convincing the Americans that they were a proto-democracy party.
00:22:08.060 And they just needed resources and help to become stronger and then they would democratize.
00:22:14.660 That this is the very thing that we assumed would happen at the turn of the 20th century with China was the same lie that Mao told us in the 30s.
00:22:27.040 That we miss this continuously and still fall for the same trick over and over and over again not only speaks to how good the Chinese Communist Party is at disinformation and what they would call united front work,
00:22:42.880 but I think it also speaks to this streak of idealism in American strategic culture.
00:22:50.680 Now, idealism can be a good thing if it keeps you tethered to your core principles about who we are.
00:22:58.840 But if the idealism becomes myopic and if it blinds you from seeing reality,
00:23:05.280 then you are aiding and falling into the traps that your adversaries are laying for you.
00:23:12.880 So when Jensen Huang says it does not matter who wins the AI race,
00:23:19.220 that's a very convenient talking point for NVIDIA's bottom line,
00:23:23.900 but it is completely divorced from reality because we're in a Cold War with Beijing
00:23:30.780 and there's going to be a winner and there's going to be a loser.
00:23:34.220 And maybe a hot war over Taiwan.
00:23:36.660 By the way, you know, General Marshall was the one that bought that hook, line, and sinker along with the State Department.
00:23:43.640 That's right.
00:23:43.960 And, you know, the Chinese had just lost 20 to 35 million people.
00:23:48.040 The Lao Bai Jing were our allies, and most of that was Kuomintang or, you know, who the Americans rallied together.
00:23:53.760 The CCP spent most of their time fighting the Kuomintang and not the Japanese topic for a different day.
00:24:00.800 Your recommendation, we've just got about two minutes, your recommendation to the president,
00:24:04.960 given everything that's gone on, to rethink this.
00:24:08.280 What would be the two or three things Michael Sobolik would tell President Trump?
00:24:11.460 I would say, number one, whenever a CEO tells you that there's no downside and that there's no tradeoff,
00:24:21.380 I would remember the populist voters who helped him get into office again.
00:24:27.860 To say that the bottom line of the world's most highly valued company is going to be the deciding factor
00:24:34.980 is going to be a political liability.
00:24:37.960 It will be a trap.
00:24:39.120 So there is no one, I think, better to keep in mind in these moments than the American people,
00:24:46.180 which certainly President Trump does as a routine matter.
00:24:49.260 I think in this matter in particularly, it is really urgent.
00:24:52.340 I would also say, number two, there is no win-win outcome with the Chinese Communist Party,
00:25:00.640 regardless of how good of a dealmaker we have on our side of the table.
00:25:05.340 The deal that we just negotiated in South Korea is going to fall apart.
00:25:09.720 Not because Donald Trump is a bad negotiator,
00:25:12.340 but because Xi Jinping is leading a Leninist regime that lies as a matter of routine.
00:25:18.300 We need to face reality.
00:25:21.700 Michael, I want people to become very familiar with your writings.
00:25:24.380 Where do they go for your book and where do they go for everything you're putting up on social media
00:25:28.060 and all the work, all the great work you're doing at Hudson?
00:25:31.220 Thank you.
00:25:31.760 For the book, hop over to Amazon and search for Countering China's Great Game.
00:25:36.300 And then you can follow me on x at Michael Sobolik.
00:25:41.040 Michael, thank you.
00:25:41.840 And thank you for all the great work you're doing on this topic.
00:25:43.880 The most vital topic today about the vital national security interests of the United States.
00:25:50.560 And Michael Sobolik looks at it with a, realistically, what it has to be.
00:25:56.040 Thank you, sir.
00:25:56.620 Honored to have you on here.
00:25:58.840 Incredible.
00:26:00.200 Incredible, incredible, incredible.
00:26:01.820 We've got a lot more we're going to spend about the Chinese Communist Party
00:26:05.400 and the direction right now.
00:26:08.700 Ben Harnwell is going to join us from Rome.
00:26:11.480 Wake-up call yesterday.
00:26:12.940 President Trump, we had to show up and call.
00:26:14.640 And I think President Trump knew this.
00:26:17.360 Zelensky kind of says, oh, you know, upon further review of hanging out with Starmer and Macron,
00:26:24.040 all those months and months and months and months and months and months and months of work
00:26:28.780 where President Trump could be doing something else,
00:26:31.480 we're not going to give up any territory.
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00:31:51.360 Is Zelensky responsible for the stalled progress or what's going on there?
00:31:55.260 Well, he's got to read the proposal.
00:31:56.640 He hadn't written, really, he hasn't read it yet.
00:31:59.060 The most recent draft.
00:32:00.080 That's as of yesterday.
00:32:01.720 And maybe he's read it over the night.
00:32:03.360 It would be nice if he would read it.
00:32:05.300 You know, a lot of people are dying.
00:32:06.980 So it would be really good if he'd read it.
00:32:08.660 His people loved the proposal.
00:32:10.120 They really liked it.
00:32:10.960 His lieutenants, his top people, they liked it.
00:32:14.420 But they said he hasn't read it yet.
00:32:16.760 I think he should find time to read it.
00:32:18.520 Is it time for Ukraine to hold an election, do you think?
00:32:23.100 Yeah, I think so.
00:32:25.060 It's been a long time.
00:32:26.540 It hasn't been doing particularly well.
00:32:29.660 Yeah, I think it's time.
00:32:30.580 I think it's an important time to hold an election.
00:32:32.740 You know, they're using war not to hold an election.
00:32:35.720 But I would think the Ukrainian people would, you know, should have that choice.
00:32:40.180 And maybe Zelensky would win.
00:32:41.760 I don't know who would win.
00:32:42.620 But they haven't had an election in a long time.
00:32:45.160 You know, they talk about a democracy.
00:32:46.660 But it gets to a point where it's not a democracy anymore.
00:32:50.460 On Sunday, your son, Donald Trump Jr., responded to a reporter's question about whether you will, quote, walk away from Ukraine.
00:32:56.620 And your son said, I think he may.
00:32:59.220 Is that correct?
00:33:00.640 No, it's not correct.
00:33:02.300 But it's not exactly wrong.
00:33:04.060 We have to, you know, they have to play ball if they don't read agreements, potential agreements.
00:33:11.920 You know, it's not easy with Russia because Russia has the upper hand.
00:33:16.080 And they always did.
00:33:17.120 They're much bigger.
00:33:18.500 They're much stronger in that sense.
00:33:20.120 I give Ukraine a lot of, a lot of, I give the people of Ukraine and the military of Ukraine tremendous credit for the, you know, bravery and for the fighting and all of that.
00:33:29.060 But, you know, at some point, a size will win generally.
00:33:34.760 And this is a massive size.
00:33:36.900 He's a great salesman.
00:33:37.860 I call him P.T. Barnum.
00:33:39.440 You know who P.T. Barnum was, right?
00:33:41.440 I do.
00:33:41.780 One of the greatest on Earth.
00:33:43.040 He could sell any product at any time.
00:33:45.300 That was his expression.
00:33:46.400 I can sell any product at any time.
00:33:47.960 It was true.
00:33:48.420 He said it doesn't matter whether it works or not.
00:33:51.280 But he's P.T. Barnum.
00:33:52.560 You know, he got Crooked Joe Biden to give him $350 billion.
00:33:59.020 And look what it got.
00:34:00.520 Got him.
00:34:02.060 About 25 percent of his country is missing.
00:34:04.660 Some leaders in Europe are a little freaked out by what your posture is.
00:34:10.800 No, they should be freaked out by what they're doing to their countries.
00:34:14.100 They're destroying their countries.
00:34:15.320 Well, European Council President.
00:34:16.300 And they're people I like.
00:34:17.720 Look, they're people I like.
00:34:18.880 I get along with them.
00:34:20.140 You know that.
00:34:20.980 But they can't let this happen.
00:34:24.100 And it gets to a point where you can't really correct it.
00:34:27.480 There'll be a point.
00:34:28.280 And it's very close to that point.
00:34:29.320 And what will that mean?
00:34:30.680 It will mean that they're no longer going to be strong nations.
00:34:33.900 Does that mean they won't be allies anymore?
00:34:35.360 Or they'll be, well, it depends, you know.
00:34:37.340 It depends.
00:34:37.860 They'll change their ideology, obviously, because the people coming in have a totally different ideology.
00:34:42.840 But it's going to make them much weaker.
00:34:47.440 They'll be much weaker and they'll be much different.
00:34:49.860 And what will that mean for our relationship with them?
00:34:51.780 Look at your mayor of London.
00:34:52.880 He's a disaster.
00:34:54.060 He's a disaster.
00:34:55.000 He's got a totally different ideology of what he's supposed to have.
00:34:58.980 And he gets elected because so many people have come in and they vote for him now because, you know, it's like it's one of those things.
00:35:05.640 But I hate what's happened to London and I hate what's happened to Paris.
00:35:09.840 You know, sir, it's sometimes hard to tell when you say these things.
00:35:15.800 Do you intend to send kind of a message of tough love to our allies to push them to make reforms?
00:35:21.540 Or do you think that many of them are just weak and you don't really want to be allies with them?
00:35:25.680 I think they're weak.
00:35:27.720 But I also think that they want to be so politically correct.
00:35:32.100 I think they don't know what to do.
00:35:34.320 Europe doesn't know what to do.
00:35:36.380 They don't know what to do on trade either.
00:35:38.360 I mean, I look at a lot of the trade, you know, situation that's going on over there.
00:35:43.160 It's a little bit dangerous.
00:35:44.540 But Europe, they want to be politically correct.
00:35:49.660 And it makes them weak.
00:35:51.180 That's what makes them weak.
00:35:52.400 It sounds like you want to see some pretty massive changes.
00:35:55.540 Well, I think they should get the people out that came into the country illegally.
00:36:00.380 I want to ask about NATO.
00:36:01.440 You know, if you take a look at Sweden.
00:36:03.340 So Sweden was known as the safest country in Europe, one of the safest countries in the world.
00:36:07.500 Now it's known as a very unsafe, well, pretty unsafe country.
00:36:11.040 It's not even believable.
00:36:12.540 It's a whole different country.
00:36:16.560 Ben Harnwell, President Trump.
00:36:18.720 Let's tie this to the national security document.
00:36:21.160 And, folks, we put it out for you over the weekend.
00:36:23.380 Make sure that you read it.
00:36:25.880 33 pages.
00:36:26.920 You should understand it.
00:36:28.780 It's really a brutal assessment of Europe that's never been in any American document before.
00:36:35.000 To even question, civilizationally, do they even exist in 20 or 30 years?
00:36:41.820 I did Liz Truss podcast yesterday.
00:36:44.180 We talked about this.
00:36:46.400 And she said, hey, I think that's optimistic.
00:36:48.900 She wrote a book saying we got 10 years.
00:36:50.800 The West, particularly Western Europe, has got 10 years.
00:36:53.840 Harnwell, put in context of your reporting and coverage and observations and analytics what the president just said there vis-a-vis Europe overall, the future of it, the leaders of it, and how it particularly applies to this debacle in the Ukraine, sir.
00:37:09.960 Well, it's vintage Donald Trump, right?
00:37:16.580 This interview with Politico on the back of the national security strategy.
00:37:22.960 They go together, these two things.
00:37:27.720 And both of them, taken collectively, are vintage Donald Trump.
00:37:30.680 His throwdown, as is his style, he says things.
00:37:36.560 Then perhaps he'll come back to them a couple of weeks later.
00:37:38.820 He'll say them again.
00:37:39.900 He'll increase the emphasis.
00:37:41.340 He expects his allies in the chancellors on the European continent to listen to what he's saying and take it into consideration.
00:37:51.820 They're not doing it because they don't treat him with respect.
00:37:54.560 So what was the thing I'm really very happy to see in the national security strategy?
00:38:03.320 Well, let's go on the immigration point, which is so key.
00:38:08.300 It's existential here on continental Europe, as it is for the United States itself, the invasion, right?
00:38:14.560 What does he say?
00:38:15.340 He says explicitly, he calls out, using the rhetoric of our European Commission overlords,
00:38:23.520 so he says, look, the point is, it's not about facilitating immigration into the country or to have it done in an orderly fashion.
00:38:31.960 It needs to be stopped, and countries need to have absolute control over who's coming in.
00:38:39.580 And he's absolutely right.
00:38:41.120 That is the issue.
00:38:42.200 Countries, for themselves, need to decide who comes in.
00:38:46.060 And when they refuse entry, those people can't then just come in illegally and set themselves up with driving licenses, put their kids through school and all the rest of it.
00:38:55.040 Then they need to go home.
00:38:56.840 So that is a throwdown to the European Commission on the immigration point, which is so important.
00:39:04.880 Look, I've got something, I sent it through to Denver.
00:39:07.740 If they have it, I'd be very grateful if they just pushed this up.
00:39:11.640 This was from the newspapers yesterday.
00:39:15.820 No, it's the Daily Telegraph thing I'm going to go for.
00:39:18.760 Just to give an illustration of how bad things are, there was a primary school teacher who was sacked, fired, that is to say, to use the US vernacular.
00:39:31.580 He was fired because he told a school, a child, that this was a Christian country.
00:39:39.680 The police were called in and opened up an investigation on the basis of it being hate crime, right?
00:39:49.260 That is what's going on in the UK.
00:39:51.860 I put out on Getter yesterday this story about a former Royal Marine who was banned from working with children and prohibited from coaching his daughter's football team
00:40:04.920 because a couple of years ago he put out on Facebook a rather spicy video against the invasion.
00:40:15.320 And that again opened up a police inquiry with the potential, the police said that that was child abuse, so he's not allowed to work with children.
00:40:26.480 That is what's going on on the front line of the UK.
00:40:29.460 And America has an extremely, especially uniquely under this administration, under President Trump's leadership, America has a role it can play.
00:40:41.820 If there is one thing our sociopathic overlords hate, Steve, it's being called out on these things.
00:40:50.360 And the reason they hate being called out on these things, and I cite, for example, because it was pretty good, was J.D. Vance's speech to the Munich Security Conference,
00:41:03.160 when he actually cited these specific types of things, mentioned names, mentioned the countries.
00:41:09.220 The reason why that really doesn't go down well here in the European capitals is because our elites here, our sociopathic overlords,
00:41:19.480 they know they don't have the people with them, right?
00:41:22.160 They know that they are hated and detested by the people, right?
00:41:26.480 They can see the demographic electoral changes at work,
00:41:30.680 and they see the whole swathe of people leaving the centre ground of political politics and moving in two directions.
00:41:40.300 Some to the far left, many, many more to what was traditionally called the far right,
00:41:45.340 which is now becoming a mainstream proposition.
00:41:49.520 Our leaders here in Europe, Steve, they see this taking place.
00:41:53.080 And when they imprison people for their spicy social media posts,
00:41:59.660 they know the anger that is rippling across the country,
00:42:02.840 and they know that pretty soon they're not going to be able to keep it under control.
00:42:08.600 And they're one salvation, Steve, they're one remaining shtick,
00:42:13.240 because the whole inevitability of their movement basically exploded definitively
00:42:19.660 when President Trump descended the golden escalator.
00:42:24.420 And the inevitability of their regime and their various structures blew up that,
00:42:31.960 and they've never been able to hold that together.
00:42:33.920 You know, this idea that the liberal progressive superstructure was inevitable.
00:42:41.300 So what do they have, Steve?
00:42:42.940 What is the one thing that they have left?
00:42:45.040 I'll get back to you on this point.
00:42:46.200 What's the one thing that our European elites have left?
00:42:48.420 It's the idea that they're acting as behalf of some kind of European system-wide consensus.
00:42:57.820 You know, they're the professionals in the room.
00:43:00.040 And the reason why I want to come back to this point,
00:43:01.860 the role that America can play, it needs to, you know,
00:43:04.540 you need to have, if I may say this, your ambassadors in these European charges.
00:43:09.560 They need to be posting these things, pushing them out on social media,
00:43:14.120 and say, we are paying attention to this.
00:43:16.720 President Trump, he needs to be calling out in front of the television cameras,
00:43:22.020 when he sits down with these European leaders,
00:43:24.200 he needs to be mentioning these chapters and citing the names.
00:43:28.020 Because when these leaders then come back to their people,
00:43:33.320 as I say, they know they're hated by their own peoples.
00:43:37.620 If the idea that they don't have this system-wide superstructure of professionality
00:43:43.440 that is above them to save them,
00:43:46.860 because the most military, financial, culturally important nation on the planet
00:43:54.200 is actively saying, what are you doing,
00:43:56.960 then they're sandwiched between these two forces, right?
00:44:00.200 The importance of America and their own peoples.
00:44:04.040 That is a real difference that America can play,
00:44:08.400 that President Trump can play.
00:44:10.080 All he needs to do is just follow through on what is outlined
00:44:13.240 in this U.S. national security strategy,
00:44:16.200 and there's going to be real significant demographic electoral gains here in Europe.
00:44:22.820 And you're going to start seeing governments
00:44:24.800 that really do want to work hand-in-hand with his vision for the long term,
00:44:29.560 rather than the performative theatrics that a lot of them are doing right now.
00:44:33.440 You think, it's one of the reasons the Europeans went nuts on this
00:44:37.800 was that it was not very subtle.
00:44:40.740 President Trump said, hey, you're seeing a changing of the guard.
00:44:43.640 You're seeing the populist nationalist right rise,
00:44:46.580 whether it's Nigel Farage in the United Kingdom
00:44:52.400 or Alternative for Deutschland.
00:44:53.880 I just had Beatriz von Stortran last night, AFD in Germany.
00:44:58.220 Front National now leads the polls in France.
00:45:00.520 Even Maloney, our favorite, is trying to be more performative
00:45:05.840 about things that are right.
00:45:07.200 People realize this is a tectonic plate shift
00:45:09.480 that has been commencing when Trump came with Brexit 10 years,
00:45:14.720 but now getting momentum.
00:45:16.220 The question for you right now, to close the show,
00:45:18.460 I just want people to think about it overnight.
00:45:21.780 This situation in Ukraine.
00:45:23.760 The president's in Pennsylvania today.
00:45:25.840 As we've talked about, the pressure on the midterms,
00:45:28.520 President Trump focused on economic policy,
00:45:32.180 understand that it's inextricably linked
00:45:33.900 with our national security and global economic policy.
00:45:37.800 But I think most people in the country would say
00:45:40.760 that the Middle East and the Israel situation and Ukraine
00:45:43.680 have taken up an inordinate amount of time
00:45:45.680 that President Trump is trying to be a peacemaker.
00:45:47.940 Given this meeting that, you know,
00:45:51.280 Starmer and Macron had,
00:45:53.480 and Zelensky's kind of just dismissive,
00:45:56.420 we're not giving up any territory.
00:45:58.400 Is now the time for President Trump to say,
00:46:00.420 hey, look, just have at it then,
00:46:01.920 and you're going to have another year or two max
00:46:04.780 of the Russians pounding,
00:46:06.620 they'll take Odessa,
00:46:07.820 and this thing will get sorted just by the reality
00:46:10.660 on the battlefield?
00:46:11.360 And the United States doesn't have to be.
00:46:13.120 And I mean, leading a huge fight,
00:46:15.120 we will lead a huge fight in the Senate
00:46:16.680 to cut off all money and just say pox on both your houses.
00:46:22.460 Yeah, I mean, that's it.
00:46:24.800 President Trump should say that in those words,
00:46:27.300 have at it,
00:46:28.280 because he knows that the Europeans don't have money.
00:46:30.600 There's no money in the UK.
00:46:31.780 If you just, anyone's been following the US,
00:46:34.480 the UK domestic political situation over last week
00:46:37.720 with the presentation of the budget
00:46:39.320 and the British Chancellor, Rachel Reeves,
00:46:42.280 and Sakhir Stalin lying to the British people,
00:46:46.200 lying to Parliament, lying to the Cabinet,
00:46:48.740 saying that they were sort of,
00:46:49.820 they needed to massively hoik up taxes
00:46:51.920 to cover the budget deficit of many billions,
00:46:54.640 which simply wasn't the case.
00:46:56.920 There is no money.
00:46:58.200 There is simply no money in the UK for this.
00:47:02.460 And, you know, Germany,
00:47:04.120 that was also President Friedrich Mertz,
00:47:07.520 the German Chancellor, present as well,
00:47:10.160 along with Emmanuel Macron.
00:47:13.900 There's no money.
00:47:14.940 And you know how this is performative
00:47:17.600 when they're doing their gangster walk.
00:47:21.520 You know how this is so performative?
00:47:23.580 Can I tell you how you can tell?
00:47:26.160 There's no phony Maloney.
00:47:28.100 Phony Maloney, right, looks at this, right?
00:47:31.680 And she's the queen.
00:47:33.820 She's the queen of theatric performatism.
00:47:37.480 And she wants no part of this.
00:47:39.180 Italy wants no part of it
00:47:40.280 because they know it's going to end in humiliation.
00:47:43.460 That's your barometer.
00:47:44.660 That, you know, if you treat phony Maloney
00:47:46.620 as the weather vane, right?
00:47:49.920 And, you know, it's very useful in politics.
00:47:51.920 I don't mean to be cynical, Steve,
00:47:53.400 but it's very useful in politics
00:47:54.800 to have some totally principle-less hacks
00:47:58.840 who are acting as flags waving in the wind
00:48:01.780 or weather vanes on top of the church spire.
00:48:06.520 These people have an essential role to play in politics
00:48:09.880 because those are the people you want to look at
00:48:12.020 and see where the...
00:48:12.900 Because all they have is ambition, right?
00:48:15.420 And they have a genius for seeing
00:48:17.660 where the wind is going.
00:48:19.480 They have a function.
00:48:20.760 Look at these people.
00:48:21.440 Look at phony Maloney.
00:48:22.840 She wasn't there in London yesterday.
00:48:24.660 And she was doing the gangster walk
00:48:27.800 as bad as anyone else.
00:48:30.400 She wants no part of it
00:48:31.440 because she knows it's going to end in humiliation.
00:48:34.120 So look at the weather vanes
00:48:35.420 in our European capitals
00:48:37.400 because they'll tell you
00:48:39.860 which way the wind is going.
00:48:42.920 Macron's finished anyway.
00:48:44.420 His political career is finished and over.
00:48:48.500 Friedrich Mertz and Keir Starmer,
00:48:51.340 they're doing the usual trick of wag the dog, right?
00:48:55.820 You know, they've got a domestic agenda
00:48:57.980 that's in the tank.
00:48:59.220 So they're trying to distract attention
00:49:01.160 from the domestic failures
00:49:03.840 and suggest, you know,
00:49:05.480 nothing makes a second-rate hack
00:49:08.380 look like a world leader
00:49:09.820 than strutting around on the world stage
00:49:11.980 when war is involved.
00:49:13.360 And that's what they're doing at the moment.
00:49:15.120 But it has a very limited lifetime.
00:49:18.660 And it's not even going to be a couple of years, Steve.
00:49:20.640 I don't think,
00:49:22.500 because Russia's making the gains,
00:49:24.940 Ukraine's running out of...
00:49:26.560 They are really seeing the literal definition
00:49:30.180 of Professor Mirsheimer's hypothesis
00:49:32.360 of fighting Russia down to the last Ukrainian.
00:49:36.420 It really does require
00:49:38.080 President Trump to put his foot on the hose
00:49:41.880 and say, no more hope.
00:49:44.540 This isn't, you know,
00:49:45.780 you've got to have at it, Europe,
00:49:47.740 if you think you can make a difference.
00:49:49.040 Have at it, Zelensky,
00:49:50.500 if you think you can preserve the Donbass.
00:49:52.820 But you won't,
00:49:53.960 because America is not going to come in
00:49:56.140 to support you.
00:49:57.320 And once that is decisively said,
00:49:59.940 I think the two sides will sit down
00:50:01.740 and hammer out an agreement.
00:50:05.280 Ben, brilliant analysis.
00:50:07.520 Where do...
00:50:08.160 I'll come back maybe tomorrow
00:50:09.320 and talk to you about Sadiq Khan.
00:50:10.680 President Trump singled him out
00:50:11.840 and compared that to New York City.
00:50:14.260 Donnie.
00:50:14.920 Ben, where do people go?
00:50:16.000 Steve, my social media platform of choice,
00:50:19.480 get to tap in my surname at Harnwell.
00:50:22.440 And many of the themes that I've mentioned
00:50:24.140 here on the show tonight,
00:50:25.760 you'll find them at the top of my feed
00:50:27.520 awaiting your attention.
00:50:29.340 Thanks, Steve.
00:50:29.900 God bless.
00:50:30.280 Thank you, sir.
00:50:31.060 Appreciate it.
00:50:31.660 Thanks for staying up with us.
00:50:33.120 Today, the capital markets are on fire.
00:50:34.840 President Trump's in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania
00:50:36.700 talking about the economy right now.
00:50:39.280 Gold on fire.
00:50:40.280 Silver, like the highest prices in recorded history.
00:50:44.340 Gold, you know, near those highs
00:50:46.320 they reached a couple of months ago.
00:50:47.520 It ain't the price.
00:50:48.320 It's the process.
00:50:49.880 Go to Birch Gold right now.
00:50:51.420 Birchgold.com.
00:50:52.840 Promo code Bannon.
00:50:53.980 End of the dollar empire.
00:50:55.340 What you need to do today
00:50:56.440 is make contact with Philip Patrick and the team.
00:50:59.660 Talk to them about the various alternatives,
00:51:01.720 rolling over your 401k, IRA, tax deferred, all of it.
00:51:06.860 Birchgold.com.
00:51:08.160 Find out what gold's been a hedge for 5,000 years
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00:51:13.360 Also, My Patriot Supply, one of my favorite companies,
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00:51:55.440 Okay, we're going to be back at 10 a.m. Eastern Standard Time
00:52:00.800 tomorrow morning in the war room.
00:52:03.540 We're going to leave you now with the right stuff.
00:52:05.560 I'll be up on Getter overnight.
00:52:07.480 There's so much going on.
00:52:08.700 Stay tuned.
00:52:09.240 We'll see you back here at 10 in the morning tomorrow.
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