Bannon's War Room - WarRoom Battleground EP 931： Sir Niall Ferguson, One Of The Greatest Living Historians, Converts And Confesses Jesus Christ

00:00:00.000 I have a view, which is that we're probably in the very early phase of a Christian revival.

00:00:04.680 I very much hope that will be the case.

00:00:07.400 I look around me in England, where I'm spending a lot of time, and I think,

00:00:11.800 how many unhappy people there are who would be so much happier

00:00:16.460 if they only went to church on a Sunday and opened their hearts to Christ.

00:00:21.280 It's that simple.

00:00:23.080 I found in the end that atheism was not a basis for a meaningful life,

00:00:27.500 and certainly not for a happy family life.

00:00:31.340 And so I and my wife recently were baptized and are now practicing in devout Christians,

00:00:40.160 and it has made a profound change to my life.

00:00:43.160 You used to be an atheist, but now you've found religion.

00:00:46.280 That's right. I never really questioned my atheism until I had kids myself.

00:00:52.060 And then I remember thinking, I'm not sure that I'm just going to make them good people by example.

00:00:58.680 They really do need to know about Christianity.

00:01:01.400 I think I came to the historical conclusion that religion was good.

00:01:04.880 So I began to go to church, not with any religious faith,

00:01:08.520 but thinking that it would be good for my children and broadly good for society if more families went to church.

00:01:14.800 But then more recently, I understood one can't live without religious faith,

00:01:20.140 that one can't be happy, that one can't feel a true sense of purpose.

00:01:23.340 One can't know the real difference between good and evil without God.

00:01:28.940 And so I was baptized, well, not long ago, September the 1st, 2024,

00:01:34.780 along with my wife, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a former Muslim, former atheist, and our two sons.

00:01:40.460 This is the primal scream of a dying regime.

00:01:48.280 Pray for our enemies, because we're going medieval on these people.

00:01:53.500 I got a free shot at all these networks lying about the people.

00:01:57.760 The people have had a belly full of it.

00:01:59.660 I know you don't like hearing that.

00:02:01.100 I know you've tried to do everything in the world to stop that,

00:02:02.860 but you're not going to stop it. It's going to happen.

00:02:05.060 And where do people like that go to share the big line?

00:02:08.460 MAGA Media.

00:02:09.360 I wish in my soul, I wish that any of these people had a conscience.

00:02:15.240 Ask yourself, what is my task and what is my purpose?

00:02:19.000 If that answer is to save my country, this country will be saved.

00:02:25.320 War Room. Here's your host, Stephen K. Bannon.

00:02:28.620 Wednesday, 21st of January, Anno Domini, 2026.

00:02:42.760 Harnwell here at the helm on Steve Bannon's War Room.

00:02:45.560 We picked an interesting cold open for you today.

00:02:48.880 That was Sir Neil Ferguson, one of, I think, commonly appreciated,

00:02:54.480 one of the greatest living historians currently at work and writing.

00:03:01.640 And he mentioned, of course, his wife, Ayn Herson Ali,

00:03:05.500 who's a Somalian-born former member of parliament in the Netherlands.

00:03:09.360 Very strong intellectual, anti-Islamic intellectual.

00:03:16.020 And I thought that was quite, those two clips were quite interesting.

00:03:22.660 Jenny Holland, you actually flagged those up for the show. 1.00

00:03:25.980 Why don't you just sort of give us 30 seconds on your take on what he was saying there?

00:03:31.640 Specifically from the angle that in the UK, people really own sort of,

00:03:36.380 to use Alistair Campbell's famous expression,

00:03:39.160 warning to Tony Blair in an interview, we don't do God.

00:03:44.040 So for Brits to hear people talking in those terms, it might be slightly unusual.

00:03:50.060 Of course, it's common conversational currency in the United States.

00:03:53.860 Tell me what you think, what impact someone with the authority and credibility

00:03:59.000 and social respect that Sir Neil holds in British intellectual life,

00:04:04.720 his two contributions there and others, will make to the religious fabric of the country.

00:04:11.740 Well, my first thought watching those clips was that it looks like

00:04:15.520 Mr. Ferguson has been watching the War Room Wednesday spirituality special.

00:04:21.740 Yeah, I did.

00:04:23.040 I saw those and I was sort of stopped in my tracks by them.

00:04:26.940 I mean, I obviously know of his wife and I've read her books and I've read her articles

00:04:31.860 and have a lot of respect for her, Ayaan Hirsi Ali.

00:04:34.960 And she very bravely sort of stood against Islamism in Europe. 0.99

00:04:39.480 And I knew that she had converted to Christianity.

00:04:41.940 But when I heard him say that there is a growing tide of Christian faith,

00:04:47.380 Yeah, I mean, I actually, well, while it's not surprised from our perspective here on War Room,

00:04:53.280 I was surprised to hear it from his perspective, as the UK does remain much more secular overall.

00:04:58.700 But there is, even in my tiny circle, my tiny cohort, there is a growing religious belief among former lefties,

00:05:07.680 sort of Gen X, Indie kids and atheists, who have seen the terrible turn society is taking in multiple ways, 0.78

00:05:16.860 and have found solace in Christianity.

00:05:20.760 I think especially given the United Kingdom's history, its deep Christian roots,

00:05:28.140 how Christianity really shaped the society and its history and its political power and its cultural power,

00:05:36.900 and how interwoven Christianity was in English society when it was producing all of these incredible works.

00:05:46.860 I think a lot of young people are longing for that era of respect and quality.

00:05:56.300 They're longing for an escape from the sort of brutalities of secular life. 0.76

00:06:01.160 And I agree with Niall Ferguson that God provides a refuge from that.

00:06:09.360 And it's very interesting to me, too, how he said he started going almost as a cultural Christian, right?

00:06:13.880 So, you know, he's a smart man. He's a very erudite man.

00:06:16.560 So he understands the history of Christianity and how important it is.

00:06:19.720 And so he thought it was an important cultural thing to take his children to church and have them participate in the rituals.

00:06:26.120 But, you know, it's sort of the implication was, oh, I maybe thought I was sort of above it, only to find that, no, he wasn't.

00:06:32.360 And actually that God is a necessary part of family life.

00:06:36.000 As someone who has a similar perspective, I find that resonates with me greatly.

00:06:42.700 And I'm very happy to hear someone of his stature say it.

00:06:46.400 I liked what you said, especially your expression about the brutality of secular life,

00:06:51.380 of sort of eventually sort of numbing people.

00:06:54.300 Agreed with everything you said, apart from, you know, here's your latent Irish Republican sympathies, Jenny.

00:07:02.000 Sir Neil, please, Sir Neil, not Mr. Ferguson.

00:07:05.340 Frank Walker.

00:07:07.980 Thoughts and reactions?

00:07:10.780 He, I think that it's interesting that he was drawn to this by things outside himself.

00:07:17.000 You know, the greater society and the problems that it had, that's what's bringing a lot of people to it now.

00:07:22.580 And then his children, he felt like they needed the education that, so he, well, I can't just raise them and have not them teach Christianity.

00:07:29.780 Then he realized that he's the same way.

00:07:32.280 He needs that, too.

00:07:33.380 He's making, he's admitting some things that atheists would never admit about the meaning of life now. 0.91

00:07:40.240 And that's amazing to me.

00:07:42.480 But also, and this is so important, the prayers itself, surrounded by prayer in the church, you know, my father was the same way.

00:07:52.320 He went to Mass all the time to make my mother happy and to make his mother happy because it was a habit.

00:07:57.480 But he never really believed anything.

00:07:59.080 But now, in his dotage, he's starting to believe it because the prayers, they break that wall of atheism.

00:08:07.160 Atheism is sort of a wall.

00:08:09.200 And here, it seems to be broken by reaching outside himself to his children, caring for them, caring for society, and then the prayers of being surrounded by that.

00:08:17.560 It works miracles.

00:08:18.520 Yeah, it's the work of the Holy Spirit, and it's beautiful to watch, and it's taking place in the UK, which is anyone who has any familiarity with the UK, it is such emotionally and intellectually a sterile place when it comes to religion.

00:08:36.400 But there are green shoots, and that's what we do here on the War Room.

00:08:39.160 We watch out for them and bring them to the attention of the War Room posse.

00:08:43.640 And as I say, Sir Neil Ferguson, one of the great living historians.

00:08:49.940 So that's, I thought, his contribution, his public witness to Jesus Christ was very sincerely made.

00:08:57.820 Okay, we'll move on with the show then, because probably for the next 20 minutes, that's the last one we'll be talking about Christ,

00:09:05.780 because we're talking about the Catholic Church, and the Catholic Church institutionally rarely interests itself with such prosaic things, like talking about our Lord and Saviour.

00:09:17.140 They're far more interested in talking politics, doing politics, geopolitics especially, especially when it comes to the endless string of platitudes, pacifists, pseudo-pacifist platitudes.

00:09:29.180 And Frank Walker, you've got your beady eyes on this one right now.

00:09:35.440 The three, probably three of the most important cardinals, we're talking Cardinal Cupich from Chicago, Cardinal McIlroy from Washington, Cardinal Tobin in Newark,

00:09:49.320 have come together, basically, to call for what they call a genuinely moral foreign policy.

00:09:57.160 Now, the New York Times, I think, which sort of did a great article on this just earlier on this week, clearly drew the dots on this.

00:10:06.000 They're basically saying McIlroy was just appointed a couple of weeks before President Trump put his hand on the Bible on January the 20th last year,

00:10:19.940 and that was a throwdown, and then following the meeting that they had, the consistory a couple of, what, ten days ago in Rome,

00:10:28.180 the three of them got together, spoke to other cardinals, and then decided, especially, and they throw in Pope Leo's name here,

00:10:35.300 so you can join the dots, the continuity between the two neo-popes there.

00:10:42.120 And this is a throwdown, Frank Walker, an in-your-face throwdown to Donald Trump, is it not?

00:10:51.000 Yeah, they're throwing everything that they can at him.

00:10:54.320 They, you know, they're accusing him of being all about violence, of being lawless.

00:10:58.980 They said the U.S. military action in Venezuela and the threats to Greenland and the cuts to foreign aid

00:11:04.460 risk bringing vast suffering instead of proclaiming peace.

00:11:08.040 Without a moral vision, the current debate over Washington's foreign policy is mired in polarization,

00:11:14.120 partisanship, narrow economic and social interests.

00:11:18.080 They also said he's narrow, narrow interests just in his own country, and they're all about the globe.

00:11:24.740 They, you know, they're just, just like, you know, the liberal attacks, they throw everything they can and see it will stick.

00:11:31.000 They did not saw nations were using force to assert their domination worldwide,

00:11:35.000 completely undermining peace in the post-World War II international legal order.

00:11:40.700 They were announced as an instrument for narrow self-interest and proclaiming military action must be seen only as a last resort.

00:11:46.460 We seek a foreign policy that respects and advances the right to human life, religious liberty,

00:11:52.140 and enhancement of human dignity throughout the world, especially through economic assistance.

00:11:57.180 They always got to get back to economic assistance.

00:12:00.100 They really are angry about USAID.

00:12:02.240 But, you know, these are the, even though they're the most powerful cardinals,

00:12:06.660 they're also the most notorious cardinals in the country.

00:12:09.920 There are 14 other cardinals.

00:12:11.640 They didn't sign on to this.

00:12:13.200 They claim that at that synod that everybody expressed their opinion.

00:12:16.760 The synod is a perfect vehicle to make lies that are unpopular look like a consensus. 0.64

00:12:21.640 Leo's church is all in with Davos, where Trump is now speaking, and they're always going to be presenting the globalist pattern.

00:12:36.080 You know, there are three things that they have a problem with are Venezuela, Greenland, and Ukraine.

00:12:41.580 Well, Venezuela only had no American casualties, and Cuban guards were killed.

00:12:46.140 It was very quick, and he was removed with his wife.

00:12:50.200 Greenland, they're already starting to tweet support for Trump on the way over there, and, you know, he's pushing for negotiations.

00:12:57.280 They may not, that might not be a military intervention at all.

00:13:00.340 In fact, it's about securing the country, as if securing the Western atmosphere was a narrow interest.

00:13:07.020 And Ukraine has been a horrible bloodbath, like the size of World War II, and the church has been against peace, really, because they're all about Europe and Europe's position, and they're all about NATO.

00:13:21.360 Why is the pope so interested in preserving NATO, which is an unnecessary institution, just sort of a grift?

00:13:27.600 And the global order that they're, they say it right outright, they don't like this new global order.

00:13:34.100 It's about violence and self-interest, and it's not about life like them, you know.

00:13:38.740 They're all about life.

00:13:41.000 They're about sowing violence in the streets.

00:13:44.760 They're all about that.

00:13:46.220 But Frank Walker, you have put your thing exactly on this, right?

00:13:53.100 Because the so-called popes that we've had over recent decades are less and less figures to evangelize the gospel of Jesus Christ.

00:14:04.560 They are honorary chaplains of the new world order.

00:14:08.620 They are, they see themselves as honorary chaplains of the international rules-based order.

00:14:14.940 And that's exactly in their statement, in these cardinal statements.

00:14:19.760 They say this, and you mentioned it yourself, but let me come back to it.

00:14:22.180 The post-World War II consensus of dialogue among nations.

00:14:28.360 That is clear to the international rules-based order.

00:14:31.980 But what they said next, right, just shows you the sheer brazen cynicism of these men.

00:14:39.340 Because they're now talking about, and you mentioned it, but let me come back to it.

00:14:43.540 The sovereign rights of countries.

00:14:45.640 These people have been trampling over sovereignty, right, since basically 58, when Pius XII died.

00:14:57.100 These people have been globalists, shilling for globalism.

00:15:00.480 And now, when it comes to propping up the communist, atheist, church-persecuting regime in Venezuela,

00:15:10.360 they suddenly discover, right, that they're interested in the sovereign rights of countries.

00:15:17.280 It's just the absolute brazen cynicism of these people.

00:15:21.340 But it never ceases to amaze me.

00:15:25.020 Yeah, and they want U.S. aid back.

00:15:27.320 I mean, you don't even hear that anymore.

00:15:28.660 But U.S. aid was horrible for sowing propaganda around the world.

00:15:33.800 And for color revolutions, there must have been dozens of them all around the world through U.S. aid.

00:15:39.060 They're interested in that.

00:15:40.200 They're so interested in sovereignty.

00:15:42.120 They want to overthrow governments, you know, every two years.

00:15:45.660 And the fact that they're supporting Europe and Ukraine,

00:15:49.640 and they don't appreciate Trump's efforts to back away from Ukraine,

00:15:53.320 if it were up to Leo's NATO and Leo's EU,

00:15:57.680 there would be nuclear missiles pointed at Russia right now,

00:16:00.660 or nuclear possible missiles pointed there.

00:16:02.800 Trump has backed off from that.

00:16:04.120 And who's to say that Trump's new order is going to be so lawless all the time?

00:16:07.500 I mean, they want – they're advocating constantly for fighting ice in the streets.

00:16:13.520 You know, they want to – they support – they've supported the bishops,

00:16:17.240 the Rene Good side of this.

00:16:19.340 You know, they've been about – all about illegal immigration constantly,

00:16:22.720 and it's really devolving into a lot of violence.

00:16:25.920 So I don't see why they're – I don't know why they feel so much on the right side of the law here,

00:16:30.980 these bishops.

00:16:32.680 Frank Walker, we'll be back to you later on in the show.

00:16:35.680 But you're absolutely right on that point.

00:16:39.080 Why does – I mean, not only is Pope Leo, Lefty Leo,

00:16:43.440 really sort of showing his hand now after eight months,

00:16:46.600 though it is to show his hand is to confirm the Canon 212 war room thesis

00:16:52.560 that we have held since day one in the face of Trad Inc.

00:16:57.440 But why do they assume – why do these people assume, so breezily assume,

00:17:04.300 when they're calling for a moral foreign policy,

00:17:07.100 that that isn't what Donald Trump is providing or working towards?

00:17:10.840 Why do they so breezily assume that the globalist position of Joe Biden was somehow moral,

00:17:16.920 and therefore, you know, they're not going to enter and criticise that.

00:17:21.200 But Donald Trump or his cabinet or his supporters in Congress don't have –

00:17:28.640 or the millions of people, the 88 million people who voted for him

00:17:32.020 aren't interested in a moral position as well.

00:17:34.080 And they don't see that moral position being fulfilled in what Donald Trump is doing.

00:17:40.880 We'll be back on these themes in just two minutes.

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00:19:04.400 Now, on with the show.

00:19:06.060 So there are some developments also in the Protestant sphere.

00:19:10.260 Specifically, this report comes out of the ambit of the Southern Baptists.

00:19:16.220 Jenny Holland, you've been noting how this report indicates that

00:19:22.640 two years ago, in 2024, and one year, let's say one calendar year ago,

00:19:30.680 4,000 churches were closed and only 3,800 were started.

00:19:38.580 And you've been breaking down the statistics on this.

00:19:41.820 Tell us more.

00:19:43.980 Yeah, so the article recounts a weakening in Protestant denominations.

00:19:50.300 Information was taken from the Southern Baptists,

00:19:53.200 but I think they've mentioned a couple of dozen other denominations in general,

00:19:58.000 as they don't mention their names.

00:20:00.140 Yeah, so more churches closed than were started in 2024 in the U.S.

00:20:08.140 You know, it's a bit of a mixed picture.

00:20:10.200 It does mention that some churches that closed during COVID simply never reopened,

00:20:15.800 which I think is an interesting tell.

00:20:18.320 And that it sort of very vaguely blames secularization for this phenomenon.

00:20:29.340 Older congregations are growing weaker, obviously,

00:20:33.860 and I suppose they're not being replenished by young people coming through the doors.

00:20:38.460 You know, it's interesting that they mentioned secularization, because yes,

00:20:43.300 obviously, that is across the board true with many Protestant denominations,

00:20:50.280 and also this sort of mainstream, should you say, sort of Catholicism,

00:20:57.700 the sort of happy-clappy version of Christianity, which I'm always talking about. 1.00

00:21:02.440 But I think, you know, it kind of swerves the bigger issue, this article,

00:21:08.580 which is that what are Protestant churches famous for in recent years?

00:21:14.540 Obviously, not all of them, but certainly the big ones, the Presbyterians, the Methodists,

00:21:19.200 the Lutherans, the Anglicans, the Episcopalians, I guess, in the States.

00:21:22.860 What are they famous for?

00:21:23.960 They're famous for their pride events and their enthusiastic endorsement of the LGBTQ agenda and lifestyle.

00:21:36.260 And, you know, I've said this before, and I'll say it again.

00:21:38.100 I want to be very clear that in sort of a secular world, that is great.

00:21:44.020 That is fine.

00:21:45.220 Go ahead.

00:21:46.080 Adults do as adults do. 0.75

00:21:47.460 I just find it fundamentally contradictory, fatally so, when Christian elites, 1.00

00:21:57.020 when Christian sort of big Christian organizations that are supposed to have the moral gravity

00:22:01.540 adopt or support, enthusiastically support LGBTQ, you know, it's one or the other.

00:22:08.420 It's really one or the other.

00:22:09.740 So whilst it doesn't say outright, it just uses the fake leaf of secularization,

00:22:13.960 you know, everyone has been, people have been saying for years, Protestant churches,

00:22:18.840 you know, go woke, go broke.

00:22:23.220 I just want to say to folks who might be joining us here on our Wednesday show for the first time,

00:22:32.440 Jenny Holland has a fascinating background.

00:22:34.780 Jenny, you are a liberal, broadly liberal progressive, right?

00:22:38.340 But let's say, I think, I think that's unfair.

00:22:42.100 And you started off as, on the show, as an atheist, but you prayed the rosary every day.

00:22:50.540 And I'll give Jenny, or Jenny will give her social media at the end of the show,

00:22:54.440 because you want to track down some of the things that she's been putting out on Substack,

00:22:57.720 on YouTube especially, about this journey towards faith.

00:23:02.700 So when Jenny Holland comes on the show, and she's talking here about the secularism effect,

00:23:11.100 eating away at lukewarm Christian faith, she has a certain authority when she says that through personal experience.

00:23:19.160 And of course, towards the end of the article that we're actually referring to today,

00:23:24.580 which I think is based on the Christian Post, but it's actually, yeah, it is a Christian Post thing.

00:23:29.980 It actually mentions the cultural anti-supernaturalism as biting into the making it difficult for people to have religious faith.

00:23:40.540 And of course, you're someone who basically prayed yourself into religious faith without intending to.

00:23:47.880 So that's, you know, you have, you're one of the few people, I think, in social media that can say these things

00:23:53.900 without visibly agitating for anything or any denomination or having an axe to grind.

00:24:02.440 I want to just run this past you, Jenny, and then we'll go to the break, because we have about two minutes now.

00:24:09.800 What I did find in this, in the data here, is that every, and tell me what you make of this.

00:24:18.500 Basically, every church background, bar one, was suffering a decline, okay?

00:24:25.480 So the churches, the church groups, these are Protestant, mainly Protestant, Southern Baptists,

00:24:31.260 though not exclusively, church groups that were founded before 1900 declined by 11% last year.

00:24:39.060 And those founded between 1900 and 1949 declined by 13%.

00:24:44.660 Those founded between 1950 and 1999 declined by 11%.

00:24:52.160 Those church communities founded since the year 2000 saw an increase of 12%.

00:24:59.680 Now, I don't want to read too much into that, but it sort of suggests to me that the boomer,

00:25:04.640 Generation X sort of thing is wilting, but the momentum seems to be with the millennials and Generation Z.

00:25:12.940 Am I reading too much into this?

00:25:15.340 I don't think so.

00:25:16.260 We find that every week, and with Catholicism as well, that Gen Z in particular are turning 0.98

00:25:22.580 towards a more traditional form of Catholicism.

00:25:26.460 I want to say another thing about Protestantism versus Catholicism.

00:25:30.540 And this is a sort of a frequent online discourse about Gen Z in particular,

00:25:37.040 that they're very into aesthetics.

00:25:38.480 And this might be somewhat of my personal bias speaking, but Catholic faith and Catholicism offers

00:25:48.180 the better aesthetics, which sounds like a glib thing.

00:25:51.920 It sounds like a superficial thing.

00:25:53.360 But I don't think it is, actually, because what is driving young people to Christianity is the sort of mystery and awe element of it and the sort of the authenticity of the old ways.

00:26:07.460 That's what they're seeking out, as I mentioned earlier, as refuge from the brutality of the secular world.

00:26:13.820 So the people who are driving this upsurge in faith are coming at it with a fervor and an eye for detail that the boomer elites simply have forgotten about, 0.68

00:26:29.040 have disregarded, and have taken for granted, and therefore have thrown away and wasted.

00:26:35.740 And there is a new generation coming to replace them.

00:26:39.580 Jenny, what you're saying there to sum that up in 10 seconds is that numbed by secularism, the brutality of secularism,

00:26:47.980 people are thirsting for transcendence, and the transcendence of beauty, which you find in the traditional Latin Rite liturgy.

00:26:58.740 Back in two minutes.

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00:31:16.860 Well, welcome back.

00:31:18.360 Back in the days when Chicago had a halfway decent cardinal, Cardinal George.

00:31:24.460 His famous quote was,

00:31:26.860 I expect to die in my bed.

00:31:28.820 My successor will die in prison.

00:31:30.880 And his successor will die a martyr in the public square.

00:31:34.900 That came to mind, Frank Walker, when I saw that an Episcopalian bishop,

00:31:40.560 now let me get this right,

00:31:42.140 for New Hampshire has told you to prepare for a new era of martyrdom.

00:31:50.320 Tell me more about the background of what's going on here.

00:31:54.100 So I guess Cardinal Cupich might die in prison from what you're saying there.

00:31:58.440 Anyway, this story about an Episcopal bishop in New Hampshire,

00:32:09.920 it makes me think of where do we draw the line between these churches that are really doing things that I would say are seditious.

00:32:21.020 I mean, I'm not a legal expert, and it's happening all over the place.

00:32:26.460 And where is it protecting religious freedom?

00:32:28.660 This New Hampshire bishop is warning that we're entering a new era of martyrdom,

00:32:34.080 which to me is kind of funny to think of Episcopalian martyrs.

00:32:36.620 I always think of Catholic martyrs, but there aren't very many Catholic or Episcopalian martyrs these days.

00:32:42.060 I know there's Episcopalians that are very faithful and would be martyrs.

00:32:45.300 But anyway, what he means is people who are ready to die for people like Renee Good,

00:32:53.660 who is the woman that was killed trying to run over an ICE officer.

00:32:58.280 I'm thinking the ICE officer was actually injured in that.

00:33:01.700 This Rob Hirschfield, Bishop Rob Hirschfield of Episcopal Church, was at a vigil for Renee Good.

00:33:07.240 And, you know, of course, he appeals to the Alabama and the civil rights from the 60s.

00:33:14.940 But now it's time, he says, for us to, with our bodies, to defend against the powers of this world.

00:33:24.180 The people who want to build a new world cannot fear even death itself.

00:33:29.860 Keep resisting, advocating, and bearing witness for refugees because we can't be a church without refugees.

00:33:35.760 This is just a rallying cry for activists.

00:33:39.800 You know, now they were Antifa.

00:33:42.520 Now, coming up to the midterms, they're this ICE protest.

00:33:47.080 That's all it is.

00:33:48.400 It's not really Christianity at all. 0.98

00:33:50.420 He says, the world's obviously not fine.

00:33:52.060 People are going to respond to this.

00:33:54.900 And I just think we need to ask ourselves, how do we handle this?

00:33:59.720 Because as these things move on, you know, this is how it happened in the Banana Republic of Latin America.

00:34:05.760 They're siding with the communists and advocating a communist church fighting with rebels against the legitimate government.

00:34:12.560 And that's what they're doing here.

00:34:14.100 At what point are we going to have to take steps?

00:34:16.440 And Leo's church and the bishops are no different.

00:34:18.520 The head of the archdiocese of the military, Archbishop Roglio, who was up until recently the head of the UCCB, he's telling them to defy orders if they're ordered to do some military action in Greenland, which is not really an application of church teaching, as he says.

00:34:36.400 And back in the day, let's not forget, he was also in charge of the formation of U.S. seminarians at the most important American seminary in the world, which is the North American College on the gynecologist hive of the Vatican, which confirms the whole cynical expression that we have in the U.K. 0.60

00:34:55.480 that nothing succeeds like failure.

00:34:57.900 Yeah. So you said, so by the way, we're sticking with Cardinal George, right, on this one.

00:35:04.600 His, at least his intuition, that authentic Catholic witness to Jesus Christ is going to lead to martyrdom within our lifetimes, if not necessarily his.

00:35:15.200 He died of cancer, I think, some 10 years ago.

00:35:17.920 So the Episcopalian bishop here isn't quite, he's treading the same line, but for totally different reasons.

00:35:26.240 Now, you mentioned, just quickly hit this point right before we move on, you mentioned that this is pseudo seditious.

00:35:33.940 It absolutely is, because if you look at what the Catholic bishops have been saying again over the last few days,

00:35:41.760 is that they're saying to the U.S. army that it's legitimate for them to disobey orders,

00:35:48.620 and presumably they have the discretion themselves which orders they want to obey.

00:35:54.080 So orders like going in and removing Maduro from Venezuela, that's a big no-no,

00:35:59.380 because we've just established, our Catholic bishops have just established that they're now nationalists and interested in sovereignty.

00:36:06.440 So those sort of things you can legitimately ignore.

00:36:10.240 So if the order comes to remove illegals from the country who broke the law to break into the country,

00:36:17.160 well, of course, those are also orders that you can legitimately choose to disobey.

00:36:23.160 Frank Walker, you hit the, you know, again on this show, you hit the nail on the head.

00:36:28.060 This is sedition, right?

00:36:30.680 This is in your face sedition.

00:36:32.980 The Archbishop Brolio should be pressured to resign from this position and move into something else,

00:36:38.260 I think, by administration.

00:36:39.840 I think eventually steps need to be taken to calm the situation, not be rallied by these faux Christians. 1.00

00:36:47.260 This is not a religious freedom matter.

00:36:49.120 I mean, if you ask the bishops, they would say that they're illegal aliens.

00:36:52.400 Trafficking grift is a religious freedom. 0.99

00:36:54.600 These are not Christian principles that they're advocating for. 0.93

00:36:57.680 What they're representing is a fraud, and I don't think they should be treated as if they're legitimate Christians. 1.00

00:37:02.180 People that advocate for this kind of thing, I think they should be pressured to tone it down.

00:37:09.080 And people who are bishops that should be pressured to be removed and replaced with somebody who is going to preach actual Catholicism,

00:37:16.420 not sedition and not, you know, agitation.

00:37:20.280 Just tell me then, is there room here, if this is where the institution of,

00:37:32.340 I'm not talking about the supernatural basis of the Catholic Church, which is the mystical body of Jesus Christ,

00:37:39.760 but the institutional aspect of this, right, if they are moving now into open seditionary territory,

00:37:50.520 is this a moment for us to revisit on the wall room something that we've been pushing for since we started this show,

00:37:57.440 that really the Catholic laity, the faithful Catholic laity,

00:38:01.660 needs to assert a leadership role within the Catholic Church, within the political aspects of the Catholic Church,

00:38:08.720 rather than leaving it to a group of men who clearly hate the very,

00:38:14.340 they have a supernatural, preternatural hatred towards the very thing that they are supposed to be transmitting.

00:38:22.100 Yes, as you say, a lay organization is the one that, especially, you know, in the traditional world,

00:38:29.560 you have, there's removed people that are not quite connected to the Church, like it's at the SSPX,

00:38:34.960 that Leo has meaning with the FSSP, which is another group of Latin mass traditional Catholics,

00:38:40.020 but they're very much under his control, and they do not have a political sense,

00:38:45.740 and the political sense of the traditional Catholic movement is sort of gone.

00:38:50.500 It's really been compromised.

00:38:53.320 And so we're not going to make any headway unless we have a lay organization that we can, you know,

00:38:57.960 that we can actually have control outside the grip of the media and the Church.

00:39:04.080 I agree with you.

00:39:05.140 Frank Walker, Frank, you've been very naughty today on the show,

00:39:08.800 because every time I want to go over to Jenny, you pull me back in,

00:39:12.520 you reel me back in with something else that I have to follow up on.

00:39:16.000 So talking about the SSPX, we saw that the SSPX, the Society of Pius X, paid their visit.

00:39:26.200 They bent the knee and kissed the ring in the Vatican to Pope Leo.

00:39:31.920 And of course, nothing is going to warm the cockles of Tradink's heart 1.00

00:39:37.400 than the other than seeing the SSPX leadership at the Vatican with Pope Leo.

00:39:45.500 And of course, it did warm the cockles of Tradink's heart. 0.95

00:39:49.220 And you have all the nonsense about how they spoke for half an hour and discussed all the things.

00:39:53.160 Frank Walker, I'll tell you what I want to see from the SSPX, otherwise I'm not interested.

00:39:56.640 When are you... I'm not interested in any of the... in anything that they have to say.

00:40:00.780 I want to know a question to one thing.

00:40:02.320 When are you guys going to consecrate new bishops so that your essential mission can continue?

00:40:08.680 And if they're not going to answer that question, you know,

00:40:11.320 just save me the platitudes because I'm not interested.

00:40:15.140 Yes. And you know, last time they did make sounds more like...

00:40:19.240 that sounded a little bit more hopeful in that direction.

00:40:21.420 But no, nothing concrete as far as that goes.

00:40:24.440 But the problem is concrete.

00:40:26.880 And so, yeah, that particular organization needs to consecrate bishops

00:40:31.700 at some point.

00:40:33.020 But mostly, I think the power of lay movements can really have influence

00:40:37.720 if they're just out of the reach of the control of the media

00:40:41.240 and some of these faithful Catholic organizations

00:40:44.280 so that those people can operate better with help from the lay side.

00:40:48.120 But we don't have any organization on the lay side, and we need that.

00:40:51.940 All right.

00:40:52.960 Obviously, we'll be keeping our cynical beady eyes on this one.

00:40:57.040 Quick shout-out once again to our sponsors,

00:41:00.360 and then we'll go to Jenny for the last segment of the show.

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00:42:59.640 So, Jenny Holland, then,

00:43:02.080 we've made it to the end of the show.

00:43:04.940 Tell me, you flagged this up,

00:43:06.900 and I found it very interesting

00:43:08.660 that a former,

00:43:10.680 and I can see why you flagged it up,

00:43:12.320 a former atheist,

00:43:13.920 Leah Sargent,

00:43:15.240 has spoken at a conference

00:43:16.800 telling Catholic women

00:43:17.920 that our embodied,

00:43:19.560 sexed nature 0.83

00:43:20.580 is ordered for salvation,

00:43:23.360 and therefore rejecting

00:43:25.320 the cultural lies 0.93

00:43:26.880 of interchangeability

00:43:28.160 between men and women 0.90

00:43:29.740 and radical autonomy.

00:43:31.620 I mean,

00:43:31.980 I saw some of what she said, Jenny.

00:43:34.160 It seemed a little bit

00:43:34.920 J.P. 2-ish to me,

00:43:36.140 a little bit theology of the body.

00:43:38.920 But tell me,

00:43:39.700 what is it in her discourse here

00:43:41.700 that you want to share

00:43:43.040 with the woman posse this evening?

00:43:46.080 Well, a lot,

00:43:46.980 there's a lot of stuff in this.

00:43:48.460 You could probably do

00:43:49.200 an entire show on it, actually.

00:43:51.200 But yeah, as you said,

00:43:51.980 Leah Sargent is an author,

00:43:53.300 and I think is sort of a policy wonk,

00:43:56.160 who's written several books,

00:43:57.240 her most recent of which

00:43:58.600 came out a few months ago

00:43:59.640 called, I think,

00:44:00.340 The Dignity of Dependence,

00:44:02.840 A Feminist Manifesto.

00:44:04.420 And she gave a keynote

00:44:06.200 at a conference in January

00:44:08.360 a couple weeks ago

00:44:09.180 organized by the Catholic Women

00:44:11.220 and Gender Studies Program

00:44:12.820 at the University of St. Thomas.

00:44:15.240 Now, full disclosure,

00:44:16.920 and with respect,

00:44:18.160 I am rather skeptical

00:44:19.380 of the phrase Catholic feminist.

00:44:22.100 I think it's a bit like being

00:44:23.280 sort of a gay-friendly church.

00:44:26.480 I think they're mutually exclusive terms,

00:44:28.960 but that's just my opinion.

00:44:31.420 But she hits on some

00:44:32.940 extremely interesting themes.

00:44:34.660 Overall, the book

00:44:35.740 and her keynote speech

00:44:37.300 revolves around this idea,

00:44:39.140 sort of a cry against

00:44:40.640 the strong drive

00:44:44.260 to make humans feel

00:44:46.960 and act as wholly autonomous creatures,

00:44:50.580 men and women.

00:44:51.460 She says that

00:44:52.700 we are not simply

00:44:54.780 individuals operating in a void.

00:44:57.780 Basically, we're codependent.

00:44:59.160 We need each other

00:45:00.080 to survive and to thrive.

00:45:03.260 And the remark she made

00:45:05.160 about our embedded sex natures

00:45:07.700 being ordered for salvation

00:45:09.900 is very interesting to me

00:45:11.420 because this idea of,

00:45:14.140 or sorry, not embedded,

00:45:14.860 embodied,

00:45:15.640 our embodied sex natures,

00:45:17.300 these terms are the same terms

00:45:20.180 that are used by a lot of,

00:45:22.180 you'd call them gender critical,

00:45:23.960 i.e. critical of trans ideology,

00:45:27.500 women intellectuals

00:45:29.360 and activists

00:45:30.720 in the UK and the United States.

00:45:33.040 And why is that?

00:45:34.560 Because in this idea

00:45:36.100 of wholly autonomous person,

00:45:38.200 like the single unit of man,

00:45:40.720 slash woman, 0.99

00:45:41.480 that a person can be

00:45:43.660 whatever they want to be,

00:45:44.840 including another gender.

00:45:46.200 And it's gotten so bad,

00:45:48.040 another sex, really, 0.75

00:45:49.120 because gender

00:45:49.660 is kind of a nonsense idea.

00:45:52.260 And it's gotten so bad

00:45:53.820 in the culture,

00:45:56.220 in certain sort of

00:45:57.300 youth culture subgroups,

00:45:59.300 that there's entire

00:46:01.000 sort of online communities

00:46:03.820 that are devoted

00:46:05.760 to encouraging children

00:46:07.360 and young people

00:46:07.880 to actually disassociate,

00:46:09.520 to learn practices,

00:46:10.800 to disassociate

00:46:12.080 their mind and body.

00:46:13.860 And, you know,

00:46:14.800 you can imagine

00:46:15.480 all sorts of terrible things

00:46:16.820 that can come from that.

00:46:18.240 So to be,

00:46:19.260 to have this reminder

00:46:20.280 that that is impossible,

00:46:22.580 that to separate your mind

00:46:24.260 and body like that

00:46:25.140 is very deeply unhealthy.

00:46:27.300 And we have these bodies

00:46:29.740 that are given to us by God,

00:46:31.760 and they serve

00:46:32.680 a very sort of unique set

00:46:34.320 of purposes,

00:46:35.840 men versus women, 0.94

00:46:36.860 is actually a very

00:46:38.280 wholesome thing

00:46:39.400 it's a very holistic thing.

00:46:42.320 And she's very much in line

00:46:43.720 with a lot of

00:46:44.340 very interesting

00:46:45.160 gender-critical feminists

00:46:47.220 and women

00:46:47.700 who talk about this a lot.

00:46:50.260 She said something else

00:46:51.160 that I really liked.

00:46:51.820 She had a phrase

00:46:52.460 that I loved.

00:46:53.500 This is a woman

00:46:54.140 who grew up

00:46:55.260 as a progressive,

00:46:56.460 mother,

00:46:57.240 a culturally Jewish,

00:46:58.740 father, lapsed Catholic,

00:47:00.200 parents,

00:47:01.140 academics,

00:47:01.800 and progressives.

00:47:02.580 So a lot in that background

00:47:03.760 that I am familiar with,

00:47:06.760 very similar

00:47:07.260 to my own background,

00:47:09.060 and she converted

00:47:09.920 to Catholicism in 2012.

00:47:11.520 And she's talking mostly

00:47:12.880 about abortion

00:47:13.560 and birth control, 0.95

00:47:14.580 at least in this article

00:47:17.160 and in this book.

00:47:19.300 But, you know,

00:47:20.360 what she's saying

00:47:22.100 definitely applies

00:47:23.040 to the transgender ideology,

00:47:25.660 but she uses 0.99

00:47:27.040 birth control

00:47:29.840 and abortion

00:47:30.480 as examples

00:47:32.440 not of liberation

00:47:33.680 for women

00:47:34.760 and equality

00:47:37.260 of opportunity

00:47:38.040 for women

00:47:38.660 because it frees them

00:47:39.780 from the procreative aspect

00:47:41.580 of their lives.

00:47:43.180 She portrays it

00:47:44.960 as her phrase

00:47:45.800 giving them equality

00:47:47.880 of vice,

00:47:48.820 which is a phrase

00:47:49.640 I absolutely love

00:47:50.540 and I will try to steal

00:47:51.820 in future.

00:47:52.400 Um, yeah,

00:47:54.180 so it's a very interesting thing

00:47:55.380 and it just goes to show

00:47:56.620 that there's a lot

00:47:57.440 of very interesting

00:47:58.380 intellectual work

00:47:59.860 being done

00:48:00.520 in conservative circles

00:48:02.220 that I think

00:48:03.800 certainly

00:48:04.640 the people

00:48:05.600 who still consider

00:48:06.340 themselves liberals

00:48:07.220 would be,

00:48:08.160 you know,

00:48:08.480 shocked by

00:48:09.100 because they think

00:48:10.140 we're all mouth-breathing

00:48:11.420 um,

00:48:12.460 troglodytes.

00:48:14.520 Um,

00:48:15.280 you've hit on that point there

00:48:16.620 and that's

00:48:17.000 to return us back

00:48:18.380 to the beginning

00:48:19.280 of the show.

00:48:19.860 There is definitely

00:48:20.480 something happening

00:48:21.260 and I've not seen

00:48:21.900 this really

00:48:22.380 since the 30s,

00:48:23.820 40s and 50s

00:48:25.220 of the last century

00:48:26.060 that there is

00:48:27.180 an increasing

00:48:27.920 intellectual movement

00:48:29.340 now,

00:48:30.100 um,

00:48:30.960 talking about

00:48:32.260 in a very courageous

00:48:33.820 and coherent way

00:48:34.680 about the ancient

00:48:36.420 Catholic truth.

00:48:37.920 They're not

00:48:38.120 exclusively Catholic.

00:48:39.940 Um,

00:48:41.200 um,

00:48:43.080 and it's coming

00:48:43.680 from people

00:48:44.220 who are coming

00:48:44.620 out of atheism.

00:48:45.980 Atheism,

00:48:46.740 they're coming out

00:48:47.460 because I don't think

00:48:48.440 Neil Ferguson

00:48:49.040 has converted

00:48:49.960 to Catholicism.

00:48:50.800 Um,

00:48:52.420 but you have,

00:48:53.160 you now,

00:48:53.380 you now see

00:48:54.100 and it's happening

00:48:54.880 everywhere.

00:48:55.440 People are renouncing

00:48:57.340 former atheism

00:48:58.460 and proclaiming

00:49:00.960 Jesus Christ

00:49:01.660 with a great deal

00:49:03.080 of,

00:49:03.620 um,

00:49:04.320 of coherence,

00:49:06.320 I think.

00:49:06.700 Um,

00:49:07.640 yeah,

00:49:08.300 uh,

00:49:08.620 and that's what

00:49:09.120 we're seeing

00:49:09.540 here again

00:49:10.580 in the present

00:49:12.780 example

00:49:13.260 of this lady,

00:49:14.600 uh,

00:49:14.980 Leah.

00:49:15.680 Yeah,

00:49:15.980 and she's also,

00:49:17.120 she also seems

00:49:18.340 very young.

00:49:19.140 She looks like 0.55

00:49:19.680 to be maybe

00:49:20.280 in her 30s.

00:49:21.260 So,

00:49:21.940 um,

00:49:22.580 she's yet another

00:49:23.340 example of young

00:49:24.460 people coming

00:49:25.680 to Catholicism

00:49:26.860 specifically

00:49:27.360 because she has

00:49:28.040 converted to

00:49:28.540 Catholicism,

00:49:29.200 and,

00:49:31.140 and using

00:49:32.020 it as,

00:49:32.740 um,

00:49:33.620 an antidote

00:49:34.600 and a solution

00:49:37.220 to the sterility

00:49:39.380 of secularism.

00:49:41.320 I mean,

00:49:41.480 I think atheism

00:49:42.400 fundamentally

00:49:43.360 is all well

00:49:44.460 and good

00:49:44.900 when you're

00:49:45.460 a kid,

00:49:45.940 when you're

00:49:46.240 a teenager,

00:49:46.880 when you're

00:49:47.140 a young person,

00:49:47.780 when you want

00:49:48.700 to be a bit

00:49:49.100 rebellious,

00:49:49.840 when you lack

00:49:51.480 depth

00:49:52.040 and you lack

00:49:52.980 experience

00:49:53.660 in life.

00:49:54.240 Um,

00:49:54.840 and then as you

00:49:55.400 go through

00:49:56.140 the phases

00:49:57.100 of your life

00:49:57.860 and everyone

00:49:58.800 hits upon

00:49:59.400 hard times

00:49:59.920 and crises,

00:50:01.080 um,

00:50:01.560 you will find

00:50:02.160 no refuge

00:50:02.880 there in the

00:50:03.640 meaninglessness

00:50:04.280 of it all

00:50:05.440 ultimately.

00:50:06.780 Or to use

00:50:07.640 your own words

00:50:08.160 in the earlier

00:50:08.980 part of the show,

00:50:10.340 the,

00:50:10.480 the,

00:50:10.780 the brutal

00:50:11.680 secularism,

00:50:13.500 um,

00:50:13.780 the brutality

00:50:14.420 of secularism.

00:50:15.460 I mentioned

00:50:16.400 earlier your

00:50:17.280 writings,

00:50:17.940 especially as

00:50:18.800 you unexpectedly

00:50:19.920 completed,

00:50:21.380 or I should say

00:50:22.000 you completed

00:50:22.380 without ever

00:50:23.340 expecting

00:50:23.880 to do the

00:50:24.560 365 days

00:50:25.820 of praying

00:50:26.640 the rosary.

00:50:27.360 Where do

00:50:27.700 people go

00:50:28.400 on social

00:50:29.060 media to

00:50:29.500 read that

00:50:29.980 particular

00:50:30.440 article or

00:50:31.140 the rest

00:50:31.460 of your

00:50:31.720 output,

00:50:32.220 Jenny?

00:50:33.600 Uh,

00:50:34.080 so you can

00:50:34.320 go to

00:50:34.680 jennieeholland.substack.com

00:50:38.000 uh,

00:50:38.780 to read my essay

00:50:39.560 on my 365 days

00:50:41.800 of praying the

00:50:42.280 rosary and what

00:50:42.880 it taught me.

00:50:43.820 Uh,

00:50:44.260 and also I have

00:50:45.460 a new YouTube

00:50:46.020 channel,

00:50:46.640 which is

00:50:47.300 saving culture

00:50:48.040 from itself

00:50:48.680 on YouTube.

00:50:50.620 And you're

00:50:51.740 picking up

00:50:52.400 basically thousands

00:50:53.320 of new viewers

00:50:54.360 per day

00:50:55.160 on that

00:50:56.060 YouTube channel

00:50:56.960 and entirely

00:50:57.900 merited as well

00:50:58.640 because it's

00:50:59.020 superb.

00:50:59.880 Frank Walker,

00:51:00.380 I just want to

00:51:00.820 correct,

00:51:01.180 I made,

00:51:02.040 I misspoke

00:51:02.940 when we were

00:51:03.380 talking,

00:51:03.780 it was the

00:51:04.140 FSSP that

00:51:05.660 went to

00:51:06.200 Leo,

00:51:06.640 um,

00:51:07.360 yesterday

00:51:07.680 rather than

00:51:08.380 the SSPX.

00:51:10.340 Um,

00:51:12.100 but the question

00:51:12.720 remains is that

00:51:13.400 the SSPX certainly

00:51:14.260 does need to get

00:51:14.900 on and,

00:51:15.540 and do some

00:51:16.360 consecrations.

00:51:17.500 Where do people

00:51:18.260 go to catch up

00:51:19.340 with stumbling

00:51:19.820 block or the,

00:51:20.840 um,

00:51:21.380 or Canon 212?

00:51:22.880 Yeah,

00:51:23.340 canon212.com,

00:51:24.800 type it up in

00:51:25.380 the address bar

00:51:26.160 or you can see

00:51:26.920 the daily video

00:51:27.980 update on the

00:51:28.560 right column

00:51:29.100 and also at

00:51:30.180 Rumble and

00:51:31.080 at Gloria TV.

00:51:32.360 Also the stumbling

00:51:33.240 blocks link to

00:51:33.940 theirs.

00:51:34.320 And Canon 212

00:51:35.360 spelled out on

00:51:35.980 Twitter too.

00:51:38.480 That's all we've

00:51:39.280 got time for,

00:51:39.900 folks.

00:51:40.100 We'll be back

00:51:40.480 same time,

00:51:41.180 same time

00:51:41.660 Wednesday,

00:51:42.100 next week.

00:51:42.460 I'll be back,

00:51:43.380 God willing,

00:51:43.840 on Friday.

00:51:44.280 Do you owe back

00:51:46.200 taxes or haven't

00:51:47.140 filled in years?

00:51:47.940 Now is the time

00:51:48.920 to resolve your

00:51:49.540 tax matters.

00:51:51.200 When the national

00:51:51.820 conversation around

00:51:52.800 abolishing the

00:51:53.560 income tax system,

00:51:54.560 the IRS is

00:51:55.260 fighting back

00:51:56.100 and proving it's

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00:52:01.280 They're sending

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00:52:15.260 If you owe or

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00:52:17.080 it's not a

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00:52:18.200 IRS will act, 0.84

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Bannon's War Room - January 22, 2026

WarRoom Battleground EP 931： Sir Niall Ferguson, One Of The Greatest Living Historians, Converts And Confesses Jesus Christ

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