Bannon's War Room - WarRoom Battleground EP 973： Poland’s Nationalist President Vetoes “Centre-Right” Government’s Plot To Give EU Say On Defence

00:00:00.000 This is the primal scream of a dying regime.

00:00:07.000 Pray for our enemies,

00:00:09.000 because we're going medieval on these people.

00:00:12.000 Here's the time I got a free shot

00:00:14.000 at all these networks lying about the people.

00:00:17.000 The people have had a belly full of it.

00:00:19.000 I know you don't like hearing that.

00:00:20.000 I know you try to do everything in the world to stop that,

00:00:22.000 but you're not going to stop it.

00:00:23.000 It's going to happen.

00:00:24.000 And where do people like that go to share the big lie?

00:00:27.000 MAGA Media.

00:00:29.000 I wish in my soul, I wish that any of these people had a conscience.

00:00:34.660 Ask yourself, what is my task and what is my purpose?

00:00:38.420 If that answer is to save my country, this country will be saved.

00:00:44.700 War Room. Here's your host, Stephen K. Band.

00:00:47.940 friday 20th of march and no domini 2026 harnwell here at the helm on steve bannon's war room

00:01:03.160 straight off with the show today cracking show by the way stoked folks you want to stay tuned

00:01:07.760 for all of this um we have the president and co-founder of ordo uris which is um is a law

00:01:16.700 organization combating lawfare in Poland. When I worked in the European Parliament,

00:01:22.560 I remember that Ordo Joris was one of the great organizations combating the attempt of

00:01:29.900 leftward anti-life judicial activism. I spoke at one of their conferences, and Jerzy Kwasniewski,

00:01:40.380 as I say, president of Ordo Joris, co-founder, joins us today to help us navigate something

00:01:45.100 that took place last week i believe it's incredibly important i've hardly seen it referred to

00:01:51.280 in the news at all yes welcome on to the show i saw that carol navrotsky the president of poland

00:02:01.340 vetoed um a government a piece of government legislation pushed by donald tusk and former um

00:02:11.040 former eu stalwart uh great atlanticist as he claims to be um and this measure would have allowed

00:02:23.940 poland to have access to some 48 billion euros worth of funding um but it was a loan

00:02:32.700 over i think um 75 years and the consequence of that is that poland would have ended up paying

00:02:39.960 the principle, as much an interest as the principle itself. So President Nawrowski,

00:02:48.000 who's never claimed to be an Atlanticist, has always claimed to be a patriot, who's wanting

00:02:53.180 to put Poland's interest first as president, exercised his presidential prerogative and

00:03:00.160 vetoed the legislation. And I think that sets up perfectly the paradigm that I'd like to discuss

00:03:08.520 with you today and this is the tension between the sovereign sovereign sovereignists the

00:03:14.820 nationalists in the european union and those who build themselves as atlanticists tell us

00:03:23.020 precisely the background of what president navrotsky did and why he did it and what are

00:03:28.920 the implications of his vetoing donald tusk's legislation the prime minister's legislation

00:03:36.340 Hello, Ben. It's good to be with you. Pleasure to be in war room. And, of course, this is part of the war that we are waging against the federalists and the centralists Marxists of Brussels.

00:03:53.060 The part that was already foreseen a few years ago, when in November 2023, the European Parliament accepted a resolution on the huge constitutional reform of European Union.

00:04:07.260 the resolution that has been not observed, not commented by many of the liberal media

00:04:16.380 but in fact it has paved the way for the next steps in centralization of the whole European Union

00:04:23.380 and taking over sovereignty of the member states

00:04:26.340 and one of the 10 points of the sovereignty to be taken away from the nations was military spending

00:04:33.000 And here we are, in 2026, a safe mechanism, regulation of the Council of Europe, named Instrument for Strengthening Europe's Security,

00:04:45.100 Sicherheitsaktion für Europa in German, a regulation that is presented as a best possible financial tool

00:04:57.280 for funding military spending in member states.

00:05:01.720 But in fact, it's a tool for enslavement of the nations and a tool for taking over military activity, 0.78

00:05:09.820 military spending and military sovereignty of member states.

00:05:13.900 The loan that was attributed to Poland is 44 billions of euros.

00:05:21.340 It's a very important part of Polish defense budget.

00:05:28.780 We need to underline that Poland has the third largest defense budget in Europe after Germany and France.

00:05:39.320 But when it comes to the share in GDP, we are the first. 0.69

00:05:43.960 We spend 5% of GDP.

00:05:46.820 So we are far above what Germany or France and other countries spend in European Union for defense.

00:05:54.700 And by this regulation, European Commission aims to take control over military spending of Poland.

00:06:03.120 Until now, Poland was investing its funds in its own production capacity with partners from United States and Korea, South Korea.

00:06:15.360 And of course, with this new instrument, with the SAFE instrument, it will be the European Commission who will have the final say when it comes to military spending of Poland.

00:06:26.280 The mechanism works as any other loan. Poland is attributed 44 billion euro. It has to be spent in four years. It's loan for 45 years. We'll have to give back three times more than we have received in those 45 years.

00:06:46.460 But it is the European Commission who will accept the spending lists of the government.

00:06:52.940 So, of course, it was an attack against Polish sovereignty.

00:06:56.320 It was an attack against Polish defense system.

00:06:58.780 And it was an attack against the Polish strategic alliance with the United States.

00:07:07.140 I mentioned earlier in my introduction that Donald Tusk had served about 10 years ago as president of the European Council.

00:07:16.460 Was he trying to leverage his EU credentials, do you think, as prime minister here, to force Poland into accepting this loan and ostensibly to be used on defense spending?

00:07:31.800 That's my first question.

00:07:32.800 And the second question I'll ask you on this.

00:07:37.140 Given Poland's sensibilities with regards to Russia right now,

00:07:41.320 Poland has spoken very, very forcefully on the need to support NATO

00:07:47.980 and the NATO infrastructure with regards to Russia.

00:07:52.120 Does the fact that President Nawrowski vetoed this legislation

00:07:56.200 indicate that, is it a sovereignty thing,

00:07:59.220 or is he also suggesting that he doesn't actually think Russia is as grave a threat to Poland's security

00:08:07.380 as the government is trying to suggest in order to justify this loan?

00:08:16.720 When it comes to Donald Tusk and his European affiliation,

00:08:21.080 it is very often said that Donald Tusk is the most important German politician in Poland.

00:08:26.620 And, of course, it was in the best interest of Germany 0.82

00:08:31.540 to have this loan attributed to Poland and Polish government

00:08:36.240 to accept the loan of the safe regulation.

00:08:39.800 Rheinsmetall and other German companies

00:08:43.280 already funded their subsidiaries in Poland,

00:08:46.420 waiting for the loan to be spent in virtually Polish companies,

00:08:53.680 but in fact companies that were owned by German counterparts.

00:09:01.240 Even the Bundesministerium, the German Federal Ministry for Defense,

00:09:06.800 openly said that it is in the best interest of Germany for Poland to accept the safe funding.

00:09:14.440 And it was the major point of criticism against the Polish government

00:09:19.500 from President Nawrocki and the Patriots' camp.

00:09:23.680 that in fact he is taking a loan for 45 years, for three generations,

00:09:29.160 and it is the loan taken in the interest of our Western neighbor,

00:09:34.800 not in the interest of the Polish defense system

00:09:37.260 and Polish strategic alliance,

00:09:39.180 and not in the interest of development of NATO infrastructure

00:09:42.840 and our own production capacity when it comes to defense.

00:09:47.360 In answer to your second question,

00:09:50.100 of course Russia is a strategic opponent of Poland for centuries and of course we do calculate the

00:10:01.760 Russian threat into every strategy defense strategy of Poland and of course under the NATO alliance

00:10:09.580 it is not the most important threat today under NATO and as a loyal ally of NATO pact

00:10:19.940 we are secure and of course we need to we need to prove our importance in the

00:10:27.860 pact and that's why Poland is spending 5% of GDP for for armament and it is why

00:10:34.380 Poland is attributing those those funds and this also very strategically picking

00:10:41.320 its allies and investors from countries that are strategic to development of

00:10:47.300 of Polish capacity of production and defense industry.

00:10:51.520 And that all was undermined by the SAFE regulation,

00:10:57.400 which aims to support development of mostly French and German military industry

00:11:05.020 with the cost of Polish and other countries' budgets.

00:11:12.200 And, of course, part of the safe regulated loan is also attributed to Ukraine without consent of the nations of Europe.

00:11:25.200 Poland has already given up part of its tanks, part of its infrastructure, of its army to the Ukrainian ally, to the Ukrainian neighbour.

00:11:39.200 And most of the people in Poland do not believe that it is the best solution now to accept loans from the European Union

00:11:47.620 and to give this money, in an important part, to Mr. Zawanski.

00:11:54.700 And, of course, the fundamental control of your strategic defence decisions as well.

00:12:01.360 My final question to you, Jerzy Kovacniewski, on this point before we move on.

00:12:06.940 A lot of the war in posse is particularly interested at the dynamic between the two patriotic blocs, the nationalist blocs in the European Parliament, the European Conservatives and Reformists, the ECR group, of which Georgia Maloney was the president until, I think she might still be, or at least until recently.

00:12:34.740 And then, of course, you have the slightly larger group, the Patriots for Europe, which is Viktor Orban's grouping.

00:12:42.280 Both are nationalist groups.

00:12:45.760 There's a differing, I think the big difference is on the NATO question and the European defence issue.

00:12:54.940 Given that President Navrotsky, as part of the Law and Justice Party, is within the European Conservatives and Reformists,

00:13:04.220 Could you just give me 60 seconds and indicate to me whether the government, not the government, the president has been lobbied by his ECR group colleagues or affiliated colleagues in other national governments regarding his vetoing of this safe loan legislation?

00:13:28.320 as far as you know it was mostly christian democrats so the

00:13:34.800 epp that was lobbying in poland nevertheless it was ineffective because epp is an ally of

00:13:41.440 donald tusk even though he is the most liberal uh woke uh prime minister poland has ever had

00:13:48.400 he's member of the christian democrat party in the european parliament and the same time both

00:13:53.760 conservative parties both patriotic sovereign parties in european conservation reformators

00:13:59.840 and patriots for europe were very much supportive to the decision of president nawrowski especially

00:14:06.000 here in poland as our conservative political scene is divided between those two parties as well

00:14:13.280 and both of them supported very strongly decision to veto the regulation and the implementation

00:14:20.240 act of the polish parliament and we need to underline that the government of donald tusk

00:14:25.920 which is not following the police constitution and does not recognize even the authority of the

00:14:30.080 polish constitutional tribunal decided to enter the loan and to accept the loan even though it

00:14:36.640 is contrary to the veto of president nawrocki so of course this lobby of european allies of donald

00:14:42.560 tusk is effective it is even more effective than the constitution itself even more effective than

00:14:49.040 the constitutional act of vetoing the act of the parliament and the government already issued a

00:14:55.760 decision that it will accept the loan even without statutory support even without consent of the

00:15:06.800 president so against the constitution. Jerzy Kwažniewski please stand by I'll be back to you

00:15:13.920 in two minutes now specifically about this incredible report that you've just published

00:15:18.320 and the conference that you organize based on that.

00:15:22.040 But first, folks, you might have noticed a couple of days ago,

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00:15:29.460 That was up from $38 trillion.

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00:16:58.260 to 989898 and those details i will give you at the end of the show so jersey you just published

00:17:09.080 this paper taking um taking back control from brussels the re-nationalization of the eu migration

00:17:17.940 and its asylum policies and you had an incredible conference organized on this just last week tell

00:17:27.780 us a bit about this this this i think it's a programmatic position paper tell us um about that

00:17:35.100 And specifically, I want to draw the war room's attention to something that you put there on the back cover, that only 25 percent of rejected migrants ever leave the European Union, which is a horrific figure.

00:17:52.480 I never realized it was as low as 25 percent.

00:17:55.520 Tell us a bit about not only about your position paper here, but also about the conference last week.

00:18:01.680 yes in fact we have published the report together with matias corbinus collegium from hungary

00:18:08.840 and this is the second report that we jointly drafted the first one last year the great reset

00:18:15.280 restoring member state sovereignty in the european union was also a success it was commented worldwide

00:18:20.880 and and is part of political program of sovereign forces in european parliament now

00:18:26.700 It was even again commented by Anne Appelbaum after our presentation in the Heritage Foundation in D.C.

00:18:33.860 So the second report focuses on migration pact that is being implemented by the European Commission in Europe.

00:18:44.460 And it aims to implement the so-called solidarity mechanism in migration, meaning that countries that accept without any limits illegals from Africa and Middle East, like Spain today or Germany before,

00:19:06.440 will be entitled to transfer those unwanted illegals, 1.00

00:19:11.700 not back home, but to Poland, Hungary or Finland.

00:19:16.740 That's the brilliant idea of the bureaucrats of Brussels.

00:19:20.800 The migration pact under the beautiful solidarity motto

00:19:25.020 will be implemented this year and next year, 2027 January.

00:19:30.160 First, trains packed with illegals will be sent to our country. 1.00

00:19:36.440 And the pact itself is part of the larger crisis of European Union since 2012-14, since the beginning of the migration crisis and German policy of herzlich willkommen, German policy of welcoming everyone without limits who are migrating to Europe.

00:20:00.680 Either they are through asylum seekers or just economic migrants or just criminals looking for better opportunities in our countries. 0.81

00:20:10.420 And with this document, we file a motion to all European governments to take back control from Brussels.

00:20:21.020 Under the European treaties, there is a general rule of subsidiarity, meaning that if national governments are good enough in providing national policies and effective policies in a single issue,

00:20:36.800 then Brussels has nothing to say and the national governments should be leading this issue.

00:20:42.480 In our best interest is to take back control over asylum and migration policies.

00:20:49.000 We also show one good example of Denmark. Denmark has negotiated when it was accessing European Union waiver of common policy on migration and asalium.

00:21:01.560 And Denmark is doing much better than other countries of Europe when it comes to migration and asalium, as it is, of course, not obligated to follow the Brussels lead.

00:21:16.220 We propose some concrete measures that are in line with the European treaties, that are in line with the international public law.

00:21:28.040 And of course, we also address the problem of judicial activism.

00:21:32.300 We have two huge international courts in Europe.

00:21:35.520 The European Court in Luxembourg, the EU Court, and the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg.

00:21:42.120 And both those courts work in cooperation in order to make it impossible to implement effective control over migration and asylum policies in our nation states.

00:21:55.680 We are not entitled to relocate migrants back to their home countries.

00:22:01.500 It is illegal, according to the decisions of the Strasbourg court.

00:22:06.200 We are not entitled to build walls on our borders.

00:22:11.040 So the walls built on the border of Poland,

00:22:15.560 the walls that were in fences built by Hungarian government

00:22:19.400 or Finnish governments are illegal from this point of view.

00:22:23.960 And of course, with European Union taking more and more control

00:22:28.140 over our sovereign policies, we need to strike back

00:22:32.120 and it is part of this agenda.

00:22:34.280 And this conference was about the report

00:22:37.560 and conferences like that was already held

00:22:39.940 in Budapest and Brussels.

00:22:42.940 The next will be held in Paris

00:22:44.740 in order to make it a more broadly recognized proposal

00:22:50.520 for all the sovereign forces in Europe.

00:22:56.880 You can see the conference

00:22:59.480 that's going to be up on the screen

00:23:01.600 in a couple of moments.

00:23:03.120 and fantastic conference out of that conference it emerged a figure again talking about bremen

00:23:09.040 in germany uh 73 percent of crime suspects in bremen are non-german um now you you say that you

00:23:18.820 want um some kind of coalition it's it's hate speech to to say so in germany yeah well you

00:23:25.840 probably couldn't say you probably literally wouldn't be able to say that in germany um but

00:23:30.780 In order to, as it were, take back these powers, repatriate these powers to the nation state from the European Union, a broad alliance is going to be necessary.

00:23:39.940 Now, I realize that Ordo Joris is a bipartisan think tank, though you're obviously quite closely affiliated with the PIS, with law and justice,

00:23:52.540 as is Matthias Corvinus Collegium, quite closely associated with Viktor Orban's Fidesz political movement,

00:24:03.760 even though that, of course, is a non-political NGO.

00:24:08.820 In talking about the sort of alliance that's going to be necessary in order to convince the European Commission

00:24:19.800 to take these responsibilities back to the nation state level are we going to see more of these

00:24:25.100 alliances coming back to the point i was mentioning earlier this is very much of a what you've done

00:24:29.840 here very skillfully done is you brought together um on this issue the two as i was saying before

00:24:36.680 the two nationalist wings in effectively via their political groupings via their affiliated think

00:24:42.720 tanks in the european parliament you have the european conservatives and reformists and you

00:24:47.320 have the Patriots for Europe, Maloney's faction and Orban's faction, really via their affiliated,

00:24:54.780 associated, principal think tanks coming together on this issue. That is just the kind of alliance

00:25:01.660 and unity that sort of our movements are looking for right across the European Union. And they're

00:25:07.220 going to be necessary in order to take the commission on and win. Would you agree with that?

00:25:12.880 Absolutely. That's the way we are also organizing our conferences on this report and on the previous report on the Great Recept of European Union in all capitals of European Union.

00:25:24.880 We are trying to get on board all those members from the ECR and from the Patriots for Europe as well, especially the think tanks that form the back office of those political movements,

00:25:38.880 movements but also the politi the politicians themselves in warsaw we had members from the

00:25:44.800 polish parliament and the previous members of the european parliament from both forces

00:25:49.440 and also advisors of president navrotsky who were speaking at the conference on migration nazarium

00:25:58.480 jezi krasniewski that is sadly all we have time for on the war room with you this evening i want

00:26:04.240 want to repeat the fact i've had a had when i was in brussels a great deal of respect for order

00:26:08.980 yours great pleasure for me particularly to welcome you as co-founder onto the show uh before you

00:26:15.500 bounce where can people go on social media to to keep up with your output and perhaps find out how

00:26:21.640 they can get involved and support what you're doing you may find or do you reset x at uh at

00:26:28.820 Ordojuris-int, that's Ordojuris International,

00:26:34.060 and also Ordojuris.pl.

00:26:36.800 There is also an English version of the web page

00:26:38.820 with all the reports and documents of our think tank.

00:26:42.080 It was an honour to be with you in the war room.

00:26:44.680 Thank you.

00:26:46.380 Jerzy Krashnitsky, once again, many thanks indeed.

00:26:48.760 And folks, do go onto the website and do track down this report,

00:26:51.820 taking back control from Brussels.

00:26:53.940 Very worth your time to read.

00:26:56.580 Stay tuned.

00:26:57.200 we'll be back in two minutes after this short break. Think about this. In 2006, $20,000

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00:31:16.580 Hello, America's Voice family.

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00:31:42.680 the getter app now sign up for free and be part of the movement welcome back folks well my next

00:31:49.760 guest erin agashar he's been on the show before and very delighted grateful for him to come back

00:31:55.360 to talk to us about this interview that he just had published

00:31:59.120 in the Hungarian Conservative with Hans Georg Maasen.

00:32:03.540 Now, Hans Georg Maasen is an interesting figure

00:32:08.000 because he did serve as president of the Federal Office

00:32:12.160 for the Protection of the Constitution in Germany

00:32:16.560 And because of Dr. Marsden's publicly professed political expressions, he ended up being monitored via the very agency that he once led.

00:32:34.260 As I say, an absolutely incredible interview that Erin Agashahi has conducted with Dr. Marsden.

00:32:42.120 And I gather, Arian, welcome back onto the show.

00:32:44.900 Thank you.

00:32:45.660 I gather you've known Dr. Marsden in a personal capacity as well for a number of years.

00:32:51.320 I'm sure that relationship of trust helped you there navigate some of these more sensitive issues with him.

00:33:00.020 One thing that came out of this interview, and I'd like to ask you about it now,

00:33:04.280 is something that I mentioned myself in a speech in Sydney a couple of weeks ago.

00:33:10.560 And that's this idea, and I'm very happy to see you mention this, that it's centre-right political groupings that really represents the threat to the people right now, to the ordinary working families.

00:33:25.540 It's not the left-wing political parties, it's the centre-right political parties, because they're fundamentally presenting themselves to the people and to the electorate as the defenders of values, which they have no intention of defending whatsoever.

00:33:38.980 However, you mentioned that pretty explicitly in your interview.

00:33:43.860 Tell me more about how you arrived at that conclusion.

00:33:50.720 Yes, thank you so much for having me.

00:33:53.580 I was myself for many years member of a center-right party, the Christian Democrats in Germany.

00:34:01.800 And I came to this conclusion based on a long and, to be honest, very struggling past because I decided to become a member of the CDU because I considered myself to be a conservative and I stand for conservative values and principles.

00:34:22.100 And over many years of trying, not only myself, but many other people, we could not actually form a majority to succeed Angela Merkel's term.

00:34:38.320 So we had the hope and the expectation that the current chairman and chancellor of Germany, Friedrich Merz, would be the conservative hope after so many years of centrist center-left kind of policy.

00:34:52.100 but this never happened and after realizing this um i exited the party so let me clarify why it is

00:35:00.100 a threat arian arian stop if i wouldn't mind let me just um clarify this um so you basically stuck

00:35:08.120 with the cdu right throughout merkel right right throughout her the end of her her chancellorship

00:35:14.560 You stayed in the CDU all the way through when Frederick Mertz was sort of leading the opposition as CDU, and it was only after he became chancellor, if I got this right, that you realized the guy's basically politically fraudulent, and that's when you shifted your political affiliation to the AFD. Have I understood that correctly?

00:35:42.840 Yeah, basically, that's right. And the reason is because when you entered the CDU during the period of Angela Merkel, you had the hope and also, you know, the expectations that actually the majority of the members, the backbone of the parties are actual conservatives.

00:36:03.800 And one day we will be able to have a real conservative successor.

00:36:09.280 And all this hope was kind of projected into Friedrich Merz.

00:36:14.520 Friedrich Merz was the conservative candidate.

00:36:17.620 You can find many interviews actually in the mainstream media

00:36:22.760 warning about Friedrich Merz, portraying him as dangerously to right.

00:36:28.220 And it turns out that he is not only not a real conservative, but exactly a continuation of Angela Merkel.

00:36:38.440 And this is, you know, the moment where I think the last possible moment where a conservative can come to the conclusion that if he wants to stand for the principles, the CDU is not the right place for that, at least in Germany and at least right now.

00:36:55.480 you know we had exactly the same situation here in italy a few years ago exactly the same situation

00:37:01.520 you had georgia maloney who's being uh criticized as being basically neo-fascist and all this the

00:37:09.280 hard line push on that um and of course the moment you know and there were of course some warnings

00:37:14.840 saying actually this is this is no she's not she's going to be fraudulent she's going to pivot to the

00:37:20.060 And as you said, that Friedrich Mertz was a continuation of the Olaf Scholz chancellorship from before him, exactly the same way Giorgio Maloney here in Italy is the continuation of the Draghi government.

00:37:36.520 It's fascinating how the parallels between these two leaders.

00:37:42.120 I didn't mean to interrupt you.

00:37:43.140 Carry on with your analysis on the threat to center-right Christian democracy generally in Europe.

00:37:52.600 I just want to add, it's called melanization nowadays, right, of conservative parties.

00:37:58.440 If a party in the opposition is portraying itself as somewhat conservative and right,

00:38:04.700 And then when the party is elected on that premise, it's starting to change and transform and adapt centrist views.

00:38:14.700 It's even called melanization.

00:38:16.900 So, yeah, you're absolutely right.

00:38:19.980 As, you know, a real conservative, you, in my opinion, must believe in the idea of a marketplace of in the principle of the marketplace of ideas.

00:38:30.120 And, you know, we don't want to have a situation where you have only our opinion.

00:38:37.800 So it is totally legitimate to have different political points of view.

00:38:43.600 Therefore, the left parties who present themselves as left are not the problem because they are honest.

00:38:52.060 They declare their goals.

00:38:53.940 They say what they want, illegal immigration or actually legalizing illegal immigration, bureaucracy, high taxes, all these policies are actually written in the party manifestos of left parties.

00:39:10.540 And it is legitimate to have a party which stands for these principles.

00:39:14.240 What is dangerous and what is actually the situation in Germany is that you have a party which is just labeling itself as conservative to the voter, but not fulfilling any of its promises.

00:39:32.960 And this is now going on for actually my entire lifetime.

00:39:36.980 so in particular with our history you know as germans germans are very hesitant to vote for a

00:39:46.100 party which is openly right like the afd it's portraying itself as a real conservative and

00:39:52.440 also right party and because many in particular you know people with reputation with bounce to

00:40:00.020 you know, higher class banking industry, businesses, it is really hard to overcome

00:40:08.440 this guilt associated to German history. And therefore, there is big hesitation to vote for

00:40:17.300 the AFD. And the CDU is perfectly using that by promising this electorate to be the much better

00:40:26.140 alternative you know the professional and the serious alternative to the afd we we maybe have

00:40:32.520 similar goals but we you know we are professionals and we know how to do this political business

00:40:38.660 and under this premise they are attracting votes and then they are totally neglecting the will

00:40:45.720 so you have a parliamentary majority already in germany between the cdu and the afd in the german

00:40:54.420 parliament but because of the firewall no real legislation is passed based on the actual will

00:41:03.720 of the populace and the left the left party leader of course know that it will be a big scandal in

00:41:12.920 the media and a backfire if the cdu even would consider speaking to the afd and therefore the

00:41:21.320 situation is. Listen up, CDU, you have maybe 30 or 28 percent of the seats in the parliament, but

00:41:29.040 you need to come with us left parties to get the necessary votes for legislation to pass.

00:41:36.140 And therefore, we will dictate to you what the spirit of the legislation is. And this is the

00:41:43.920 gridlock in which our society right now, unfortunately, is.

00:41:48.680 stand by

00:41:52.660 I'm going to come back to ask you a little bit more

00:41:54.740 about the firewall which is something that comes

00:41:56.740 up, Brandmau

00:41:58.780 I think the German word is

00:42:00.720 if I've got that right, that comes up very much in your interview

00:42:02.920 with Dr. Hans-Georg

00:42:04.500 Marsen, I'll be asking you a bit more about that interview

00:42:06.760 just after this short word

00:42:08.720 regarding one of our

00:42:10.380 sponsors

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00:42:18.060 tax matters. With the national conversation around abolishing the income tax system,

00:42:23.720 the IRS is fighting back and proving it's here to stay by becoming more aggressive than ever before.

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00:42:35.160 more than in recent years. If you owe, the IRS can garnish your wages, levy your bank accounts,

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00:43:45.740 Don't let the IRS be the first to act.

00:43:50.120 Back now with Arian Agashahi.

00:43:53.560 Arian, just give me 60 seconds, if you will, 0.93

00:43:57.680 for our largely American audience

00:44:00.560 and explain what the firewall is imposed.

00:44:04.720 It's basically the cordon sanitaire principle,

00:44:08.740 But just that the mainstream political parties are applying against the populist nationalist iterations across Europe.

00:44:17.160 But just explain what that is in practice. What does it mean?

00:44:21.060 Yeah, I think for the American audience, the best way to explain it is, you know, think back to the time where you had the Tea Party movement and the GOP.

00:44:31.660 And now imagine the then leadership of the GOP being able to actually artificially exclude everybody who stood for the Tea Party from the party process.

00:44:44.440 This is what essentially happened in Germany.

00:44:47.580 It's not 100% the same because we don't have a majority voting system.

00:44:53.420 The parties in Germany has a different role than in the US.

00:44:56.680 But essentially, from a political, theoretical perspective, it would be that you have all the established media, the elite, the mainstream, being able to exclude the entire Tea Party movement from the GOP, so that the Tea Party movement would never have been able to fundamentally transform the Republican Party into what it became now.

00:45:25.940 So all the people who are represented by the AfD were never able to become part of the democratic process of Germany because there is something called firewall, which means we will exclude every single representative from this spectrum.

00:45:51.040 Even if he's elected to the parliament, we will not even speak with him.

00:45:57.640 And, you know, I need to share this with you.

00:46:02.560 Imagine if you have a business and your business is openly associated to the AFD.

00:46:09.620 For instance, you are selling services to the AFD and there are instances,

00:46:17.400 And I can prove that to you, that in Germany, banks cancel the relationship to a service and to a provider of services if the provider has relationships to the AFD.

00:46:31.960 And so the firewall is not just a political concept, it is actually a spirit which is transforming German society and which has created circumstances so that, you know, you have people who have a public opinion and then you have people who have a private opinion.

00:46:56.580 And the private opinion and the public opinion differs very often because people are often afraid to say, yeah, maybe the AFD is not wrong.

00:47:07.300 Maybe I won't vote for them, but I think they are right.

00:47:09.560 Even that could destroy not only your reputation, but, you know, your position in your job and your livelihood at the end of the day.

00:47:21.240 We're coming up to the end of our allotted time.

00:47:24.320 It's been fascinating to hear you analyze these issues.

00:47:28.480 My last quick question to you is that I know it's your view that basically it was Angela Merkel's admittance of a million Syrians into Germany that created the AFD in its modern form.

00:47:44.080 Your interview here with Hans-Georg Marsen really does talk about the difficulty of the German state

00:47:54.500 and the lack of preparation for this absorption.

00:47:59.200 One thing that came up in your interview was the state that Germany is going to be in in 30 years' time,

00:48:06.760 whether it might still be considered to be a liberal democracy.

00:48:10.820 And there's an interesting intuition that comes out of that interview on how democracies that become totalitarian survive under their democratic form.

00:48:22.060 Would you just give me sort of 60 seconds on that and then we'll wrap up with your socials?

00:48:25.820 Yes, of course. You know, basically what you can say is that the moment in 2015 when Angela Merkel let in all the immigrants into Germany and it was a unilateral decision by her government, it had no vote in the parliament, transformed not only the destiny of Germany, but also of Europe.

00:48:50.600 You can argue that this decision contributed heavily to the Brexit vote in the UK.

00:48:56.660 You can even argue that it had impact on the election in the US in 2016.

00:49:02.600 And what happened with respect to Germany is actually the AFD, which you see today,

00:49:10.220 which is in the polls the second largest party in Germany,

00:49:14.880 this party was reborn after the immigration wave of 2015 because the party was already

00:49:23.360 being in lower single digit numbers and then after this influx of immigrants against the 1.00

00:49:30.280 will of a substantial part of the society many people saw only the hope in the AFD and

00:49:37.800 if you make such a fundamental decision and the people organize themselves in an opposition

00:49:44.620 party, and if you then deny those people their vote, not really their vote, but actually

00:49:53.000 the effect of their vote, then maybe formally you have a democracy, but you lose the spirit

00:50:01.060 which is also necessary to have a democracy, because democracy is, let me just cite this

00:50:07.040 very important quote for me.

00:50:08.740 It's from Justice Antonin Scalia, and it was in the Senate Judiciary Committee.

00:50:14.620 He was sitting next to then Justice Breyer, and he was explaining that when he comes to a law school in the U.S.,

00:50:23.600 he says, what makes the American Constitution strong are not the civil rights.

00:50:31.360 What makes the Constitution strong is separation of powers.

00:50:36.280 Because if you see the constitution of the Soviet Republic, then you have much greater civil rights.

00:50:45.440 But this is only a parchment guarantee.

00:50:48.100 And adapting it to Germany, what is going on is we have a democratic process.

00:50:52.660 But because of the handling of the AFD, this democratic process is partly a parchment guarantee.

00:51:00.100 erin we'll pick up this theme uh get you back on the show i will pick up on this thing very

00:51:06.900 quickly time is running out where do people go on social media to keep up with your writings

00:51:11.660 and especially your article with dr hans georg marston which i do recommend all about the

00:51:18.520 president of the federal office of the protection of the constitution who ended up being monitored

00:51:22.800 by the agency he once ran for expressing views very similar to the ones you've been doing now

00:51:27.900 on social media where do people go yeah so on social media you can find me on x arian dash

00:51:35.400 germany and the article can be found on hungarian conservative which is a leading conservative

00:51:42.580 publication which is managed by my friends from the danube institute here

00:51:49.220 arian agashahi very grateful indeed thanks for coming on the show last 20 seconds of the show

00:51:56.240 Don't forget to go to Birch Gold. Get your mobiles out. Text Bannon to 989898 for more details.

00:52:03.300 That's the end of the show. Have a great weekend, folks.

00:52:05.680 My thanks to Spencer at Real America's Voice over there in Denver, Colorado.

00:52:11.360 And of course, to Victoria Santifranco, who put this show together.

00:52:16.280 Do you owe back taxes or you haven't filed your taxes in years?

00:52:21.180 Now is the time to resolve your tax matters.

00:52:24.040 With the national conversation around abolishing the income tax, the IRS is fighting back and proving it's here to stay by becoming more aggressive than ever before.

00:52:35.640 They're sending out more collection notices, filing more tax liens, and collecting billions more in recent years.

00:52:43.120 If you owe, the IRS can garnish your wages, levy your bank accounts, seize your retirement, and even your home.

00:52:51.240 If you owe or haven't filed, it's not a question of if the IRS will act.

00:52:57.380 It's a question of when it will act.

00:53:00.280 Right now, Tax Network USA is offering a completely free IRS research and discovery call to show you exactly where you stand and what they can stop before it's too late.

00:53:12.700 Their powerful programs and strategies can save you thousands or even eliminate your debt entirely if you qualify.

00:53:19.400 Don't make a costly mistake.

00:53:21.420 Representing yourself or calling the IRS on your own waives your rights and costs you more money.

00:53:26.920 They are not, and let me repeat, the IRS is not on your side.

00:53:31.100 Get protected the right way with Tax Network USA and start the process of settling your tax matters once and for all today.

00:53:40.900 Call 1-800-958-1000.

00:53:43.900 That's 1-800-958-1000 or visit TNUSA.com slash Bannon for your free discovery call with Tax Network USA.

00:53:56.320 Let me repeat, 800-958-1000, tell them Bannon sent you.

00:54:00.740 Don't let the IRS be the first to act.

00:54:04.920 Take advantage of first mover advantage, you move.

Bannon's War Room - March 20, 2026

WarRoom Battleground EP 973： Poland’s Nationalist President Vetoes “Centre-Right” Government’s Plot To Give EU Say On Defence

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