Bannon's War Room - WarRoom Battleground EP 978： Budapest Special： The Enemy Abroad; Radical Islam's Attempt To Conquer The West

00:00:00.000 this is the primal scream of a dying regime pray for our enemies because we're going medieval on

00:00:11.200 these people here's not got a free shot all these networks lying about the people the people have

00:00:17.800 had a belly full of it i know you don't like hearing that i know you try to do everything

00:00:21.560 the world to stop that but you're not going to stop it it's going to happen and where do people

00:00:25.140 like that go to share the big line mega media i wish in my soul i wish that any of these people

00:00:32.960 had a conscience ask yourself what is my task and what is my purpose if that answer is to save my

00:00:40.900 country this country will be saved war room here's your host stephen k bann

00:00:48.100 okay welcome uh you're in the war room uh on our uh our six o'clock show which always very

00:01:00.280 special to us uh raymond ibrahim joins us from budapest raymond i know you're just back from

00:01:07.080 oxford and in fact we're going to play a talk you gave there uh it doesn't take very long i think

00:01:13.100 it's 10 or 15 minutes we're going to play that and i want you to break it down for it it's about

00:01:16.620 doormat christianity the reason i want to have you on was one obviously this uh you kind of

00:01:23.460 shocked him in oxford but you're i believe if not the best one of the top two or three

00:01:30.040 uh best uh writers that informs the west of this long struggle we've had with uh with islam

00:01:38.220 and you've done it through a series of three books talk about the books first i want to play

00:01:42.360 the Oxford talk, and then we're going to break it down in a minute. But in a time that we're in

00:01:47.840 another Middle East war with a radical sect of Islam, the Shiite, you know, the 12th Imam sect

00:01:57.760 in this kind of radical theology, which we've been in and out fighting for 47 years. At the

00:02:04.960 same time, I've been spending so much time in Texas in the show for good reason about the

00:02:09.460 Islamic invasion. And I've told people it's much farther advanced than I thought. And this deals

00:02:15.000 with the overwhelming victory we had on the Proposition 10 to ban or prohibit, let me be

00:02:20.800 specific, prohibit Sharia law in the state of Texas. To have your counsel on this and to put

00:02:28.840 it in historical perspective is always important. So before I play Oxford, do me a favor and just

00:02:35.600 walk through your background and in all three of the books one of them's out currently and i want

00:02:41.140 as many people as possible to buy plus the other two they're they're fantastic and they kind they

00:02:45.240 kind of form a trilogy thank you very much steve um yeah to understand what we're talking about

00:02:51.820 today islam and the west and all its different iterations most recently what's happening with

00:02:56.620 iran i've always believed that there's been a complete vacuum in your average american and

00:03:02.300 Westerner in general's knowledge of history. And that's why so much of what we believe and accept

00:03:08.880 and let get away happens because we don't understand the full context of it. And we

00:03:15.060 just think it's about, oh, you know, people are being multicultural and open-minded and

00:03:19.240 not bigoted towards Muslims, for example. But if you really look into the history,

00:03:24.380 which is what I've been doing for about 25 years now, actually, including in those three books,

00:03:29.920 which I'll summarize. If you look at the history, you'll understand that this battle has been going

00:03:34.220 on from day one, literally. And it hasn't really changed in its manifestation, at least not from

00:03:40.260 the Muslim side. The Muslims are still preaching jihad amongst each other. They're still practicing

00:03:45.560 taqeya amongst the infidel. And they're still engaged in all the various forms of jihad,

00:03:51.680 which they've articulated. Jihad, remember, just means to struggle. And sure, its primary

00:03:56.740 expression historically has been physical, military struggle, but it also has all these

00:04:01.900 different forms, which we're seeing now, including the baby jihad, which is a demographic

00:04:06.000 overwhelming of the West, for example. The only discontinuity is from the Western side.

00:04:12.340 So whereas Muslims today are really, you know, lock, stock, and barrel with their heritage,

00:04:18.180 which comes out in all of these books, it's the West, and especially the Christians who've

00:04:23.120 completely lost touch with that long history. So in these books, we will see, for example,

00:04:29.660 in Sword and Scimitar, we look at this long history. That's the first book, which comes out

00:04:33.900 in 2018. I really focus on eight pivotal battles that changed the world forever. And they were

00:04:40.360 between Christians and Muslims. And these battles, you know, the first one or two saw the conquest

00:04:47.240 of essentially three quarters of what was once the Christian world, which very few Westerners

00:04:52.220 still understand at this point. They still think that countries like Egypt and Syria and Turkey

00:04:57.360 and North Africa were just always Islamic somehow. They don't understand that they were actually more

00:05:02.980 Christian than Europe, and they were violently annexed. And so that there is a lesson that this

00:05:10.040 could happen. There's that famous quote I always talk about from Teddy Roosevelt, where he talks

00:05:15.440 about if Christians did not fight constantly, and he mentions virtually every century against the

00:05:19.880 Muslims, they would have been eliminated completely. So I think that's what people are forgetting. So

00:05:26.980 from my vantage point, or anyone who reads these books, what you'll see is that the Muslims have

00:05:33.000 been doing what they've been doing from day one, nothing has changed. What has changed is the

00:05:37.820 Western response. Okay, and that actually, and the perfect, you know, that's a good segue for

00:05:43.600 my second book, Defenders of the West, the Christian heroes who stood against Islam, where I

00:05:47.640 look at another eight men this time, not battles, but actual men to see what drove them, Christians,

00:05:53.680 Europeans, against Islam. And, you know, these were guys who were really pious. It's unfortunate

00:05:59.940 because they get dismissed as, oh, these weren't true Christians, probably because they're all

00:06:04.440 Catholic, because this is the pre-modern medieval era. So they had to, of course, be Catholic and

00:06:09.320 some are Orthodox, but, you know, they had no qualms about fighting fire with fire. They understood

00:06:15.700 that they were not what I refer to as doormat Christians. They were quite the opposite.

00:06:21.660 They were immensely militant, but they were also immensely pious. And that comes up to the third

00:06:26.660 book, the most recent one that just came out in November, The Two Swords of Christ, which deals

00:06:31.080 with the military orders. And these were the creme de la creme of the defenders. These were men who

00:06:36.380 were essentially monks, who were engaged in such a rigorous form of essentially monasticism. And at

00:06:42.920 the same time, there were ferocious warriors. Okay, so a very strange hybrid for the Western,

00:06:48.580 especially Christian mind to comprehend today. But they did it actually from Scripture. So the

00:06:53.360 title of the book, Two Swords of Christ, was one of the verses that they always would talk about

00:06:57.940 that essentially justified their rationale. And that's the verse where in Luke, Jesus says,

00:07:04.860 sell your garment, buy a sword. And they say, look, look, Lord, here are two swords. And he

00:07:09.540 says that is enough. That, of course, means absolutely nothing today to the doormat Christian

00:07:14.540 mentality. It's just, you know, more fuzzy talk. But to medieval Christians, what it really meant

00:07:19.540 is there's two forms of warfare that Christians are engaged in. One, of course, is against

00:07:25.000 spiritual forces, and one is against secular material forces, humans, okay? And both need a

00:07:32.320 sword to be resisted. So that was the mentality of pre-modern Europe. And that, so now bringing it

00:07:38.000 all forward to today and coalescing, all that has been jettisoned. Christians, as I argue, have

00:07:43.560 adopted this sort of doormat Christianity, as I call it, which means they believe their faith

00:07:48.300 begins and ends with doing nothing, but being passive, nice, forgiving, tolerant, and turning

00:07:54.100 the other cheek. All of which, by the way, are very easy. Those are a lot easier to do than to

00:07:58.880 actually stand up with a sword like their predecessors did. But that's also why the jihad,

00:08:05.100 after being stopped and on the retreat, basically that's what the colonial era was.

00:08:10.900 This was finally the rise of a confident West and the demise of Islam.

00:08:15.780 Now we are, it's reversing because the West has lost confidence, has lost the ability to resist,

00:08:21.040 has lost its Christian rationale for just war, essentially.

00:08:25.160 And Islam is still continuing to do what it did from day one.

00:08:31.420 Raymond, hang on for one second.

00:08:33.440 I'll get into why you were invited.

00:08:34.760 Well, how did Oxford invite you?

00:08:36.980 Because I've got a couple of minutes.

00:08:37.980 I want to play it in its entirety.

00:08:40.260 How did Oxford invite you?

00:08:43.220 Well, I'm currently a visiting fellow at the Danube Institute in Hungary.

00:08:47.300 And this particular event was sort of a joint conference by the Pusey House of Oxford, as well as the Danube Institute.

00:08:56.920 So it was in that context.

00:08:58.680 And the event itself, Christian Revival, was definitely applicable to my themes.

00:09:04.760 unbelievable okay here's what we're going to do we're going to go now to the talk takes about

00:09:11.720 15 minutes and then Raymond and I will be back on the other side everyone very happy to be with you

00:09:17.440 I'm generally seen as the Islam guy and I talk about that big issue but seeing that this is a

00:09:24.800 Christian revival conference and the fact that Islam and Christianity there's something of a

00:09:30.660 symbiotic relationship going on, I have to actually talk about both, because it's really

00:09:36.380 all interrelated.

00:09:38.460 And so what I'd like to start off with when I think of problems is, well, what's the first

00:09:44.240 things?

00:09:44.680 What's the first premise of the problem?

00:09:46.740 And I often think that many people don't really see it or don't talk about it.

00:09:50.060 We tend to talk about symptoms.

00:09:52.760 Islam itself in the West, in Europe, in the UK, I see it as a symptom.

00:09:56.740 I don't see it as an inherent or innate problem.

00:09:59.260 And it's a symptom of essentially the weakening or the dying of Christianity in the West.

00:10:05.540 So how did that happen?

00:10:07.300 And one of the thoughts that's been percolating in my mind and I've been thinking about and talking about quite often

00:10:13.320 is the idea that one of the problems with Christianity in the modern era

00:10:18.540 is that it has in very many ways adopted a materialist paradigm, not unlike atheists and secularists.

00:10:26.320 And by that I don't mean materialistic as in covetous

00:10:30.120 I mean it in a more philosophical sense

00:10:32.360 A materialist paradigm in the sense that all that is real

00:10:36.160 Let's say from an atheist point of view

00:10:37.900 All that is real is what?

00:10:39.000 It's the material, right?

00:10:40.100 It's the physical world

00:10:41.060 It's what I can see, feel, touch, and measure

00:10:44.380 And all this abstract talk about your morality and your religion

00:10:48.000 And all this sort of thing is usually jettisoned

00:10:50.160 And that's one of the problems

00:10:51.240 But I fear and I think and I see that much of Christianity

00:10:56.240 and all of its manifestations in the modern era has adopted this worldview, despite the

00:11:01.300 theological veneer of what they say.

00:11:04.780 So in other words, a Christian can, of course, express profound theological truisms, but

00:11:10.220 at the same time, as they say, the proof is in the pudding.

00:11:14.200 And what I'm seeing is, so how is a Christian becoming a materialist paradigm in a philosophical

00:11:19.800 sense?

00:11:21.240 If you look at what, if I speak to a Christian, what is the greatest evil that you can engage

00:11:25.960 I think a lot of people will say what an atheist would say, which is physical harm, okay?

00:11:32.460 Physically harming someone, and much worse, of course, killing someone.

00:11:36.400 And I agree, of course, those are great evils.

00:11:38.940 No one would argue that.

00:11:40.640 But unbeknownst to most Christians, that was actually more of a minor aspect of the message of Christianity,

00:11:47.660 the entire ethos, the morality that was created.

00:11:52.340 And in short, before I elaborate, the problem with materialist Christianity, which in many ways has, like I said, permeated the worldview of all Christians, is that it perfectly comports with secularism and atheism.

00:12:03.500 And that is why Christianity is still allowed to live side by side with a secular or even atheistic environment, because it also agrees.

00:12:14.120 All that we want to do is make sure no one's physically hurt. There's no violence.

00:12:17.940 But the question now becomes, what happened to morality?

00:12:21.060 That was a word that used to be pivotal and important and fundamental to something like Christianity.

00:12:26.900 Where is what is their morality anymore?

00:12:29.100 And I'm not talking, of course, about individual Christians.

00:12:31.340 I'm sure there are many devout Christians still in the world, but it's not something that is socially acknowledged or something much less that is socially pursued that we talk about.

00:12:41.400 Okay, so, and once one, I think, this is my realization, when I think about it, and how

00:12:48.080 morality is not, Western people and Christians will say they're moral, but again, it's through

00:12:54.280 a materialist paradigm, and you know that by simply looking at what used to be the greatest

00:12:59.460 sins and the greatest evils for a society, and all of them are, to various degrees, completely

00:13:05.500 accepted by Christians today, and all one has to do is look at the sexual mores of the

00:13:12.340 West today, and very few Christians will even argue or talk about it or even dispute it,

00:13:18.160 and they'd be, of course, scandalized to feel like they have to talk about it, but if you

00:13:22.340 look at historic Christianity, biblical Christianity, Christianity in all of its forms, something

00:13:28.000 like sexual mores, sexual sins, that was one of the pinnacles and one of the most unquestioned

00:13:33.460 aspects of Christianity. So you see, this is why, why is it not being mentioned? Because, well,

00:13:38.500 no one's hurting anyone. And so that's what I mean. That's a perfect example of how a Christian

00:13:43.260 adopts the materialist worldview. Now there used to be something, and just to make it simple,

00:13:50.400 you may have heard, I'm sure you have, of course, many Catholics, Anglicans of the seven deadly

00:13:55.180 sins, which actually very much informed the worldview of Christians in the pre-modern era.

00:14:00.980 and they are i often miss but let's see uh wrath greed gluttony envy lust um sloth and i always

00:14:11.660 miss one pride oh yeah the worst one yeah i know the root of them all yeah you're right okay

00:14:20.400 so think about those seven things now okay that is what a christian society thought about now

00:14:26.000 these are all metaphysical they're not material okay these were metaphysical principles

00:14:31.120 This is what Christianity was all about.

00:14:33.540 Notice, killing is not one of the seven deadly sins.

00:14:36.300 Why?

00:14:36.780 Because it's a byproduct.

00:14:38.240 Of course, it's evil and you shouldn't do it.

00:14:40.300 But it wasn't seen as a root cause.

00:14:43.120 Now, when I look at these, the seven deadly sins, which were fundamental to a Christian

00:14:47.180 society, to Christendom essentially for centuries up until actually quite recently, not only

00:14:55.960 are they not something that we talk about or something we condemn, they are in fact

00:15:00.200 what we now celebrate and a bunch of our economy is based on it. And we call ourselves Christians

00:15:06.280 and we live with it and we live in peace with this. And I find that very interesting. Pride,

00:15:11.120 pride of course is exalted. Pride, you know, pride month. Think about that. Lust, that's

00:15:17.100 everywhere you look. It's, it's, it's promoted. It's, it's, um, glamorized envy. Just think social

00:15:24.440 media. Okay. Gluttony, turn TV on, everything's about, you know, putting images of food,

00:15:31.880 sloth. So it's kind of amazing that to me, these are the principal issues. These are the first

00:15:36.980 things that were actually at the heart of a Christian order. And they've just been completely

00:15:42.000 so jettisoned and very few Christians even understand this. And that's the point. This is

00:15:46.500 so subtle and so incremental that, and the reason is the best way I can put it is because Christians

00:15:52.920 one way or the other, over the decades and possibly centuries, have just adopted a very

00:15:57.620 materialist worldview, which is that, yeah, we talk about the afterlife, we talk about sin,

00:16:03.040 we talk about being saved, but in the end, when it comes to society, we begin and end with just

00:16:09.440 not hurting people, okay? So that's become the ultimate Christian virtue, and it is a virtue,

00:16:14.820 I'm not arguing that, but I'm trying to say there was so much more above it, which actually gave

00:16:19.560 meaning to life. Now, what happens when society, such as Western society, European society,

00:16:28.300 jettisons what I'm talking about, which is essentially the metaphysical aspect of Christianity?

00:16:33.000 You can actually call it the spiritual aspect because the physical or material aspect,

00:16:39.360 what's the corollary? Is it metaphysical, the beyond the physical? Well, that's the spiritual.

00:16:44.420 And I just think it's funny because a lot of Christians today, when they say the word

00:16:46.940 spiritual. It means some sort of abstract, fuzzy feeling. Actually, I think to be spiritual is to

00:16:53.780 be engaged and to comprehend and try to exercise the metaphysical aspects of Christianity, the

00:16:59.580 things that are beyond the physical, that are not measurable, that deal with morals and ethics and

00:17:05.220 that sort of thing. Now, when all that is jettisoned, as it has been in recent generations,

00:17:11.080 a vacuum is created. And that's, I think, where we are. And what does nature abhor? It abhors a

00:17:15.860 vacuum. Enter Islam. Well, Islam, of course, is its own body of system. It's its own religion.

00:17:22.980 It has its own teachings. You know, one can be very hostile to it or critical of it. And I'm,

00:17:28.980 of course, associated with those views. But we have to be honest, it also brings a sort of

00:17:34.440 traditional worldview. It knows what a woman is and it knows what a man is. It's not confused about

00:17:39.800 that, for example. And it has all sorts of things that were very traditional that Europeans and

00:17:45.100 Christians would have agreed with historically. So I think that aspect, and it's confident.

00:17:50.520 So now you have a vacuum in Europe, in the West in general, because of the reasons I've outlined

00:17:55.800 dealing with the sort of slow melting away of Christianity based on these philosophical

00:18:00.840 or epistemological underpinnings. Now you have Islam coming in and it may have all its problems

00:18:07.040 and all, but it's still, it's very visceral, it's down to earth, and it does offer all of these

00:18:12.340 things that are filling the vacuum, okay? And this is why you find Western people who are turned off

00:18:18.240 and find no resonance in modern, secular, liberal culture, and they turn to something like Islam,

00:18:26.080 which on the heart of it doesn't make any sense. I wager if those people actually had a true

00:18:31.300 Christian upbringing, or according to the way I'm trying to describe it, which is actually much more

00:18:36.400 fused with a metaphysical understanding, they would not find Islam appealing. But that's what

00:18:41.580 I mean there's a vacuum now so that even something that is inherently inferior in as much as it offers

00:18:47.760 something of a primordial conservative worldview that still resonates with all humans then it

00:18:54.160 becomes appealing and then it's all especially in this country it's coalescing in a very strange

00:19:01.060 way as you all know now that there's a new blasphemy code or about Islam a new anti-Islam

00:19:08.780 or anti-islam hostility thing and of course this is just this is that one more way to help islam

00:19:17.000 to become more empowered more entrenched you can't even criticize it and i haven't looked as closely

00:19:22.220 as i'd like to the wording but it seems it's very fuzzy intentionally so and vague so that anything

00:19:28.400 in it says things like encouraging hostility or well who's going to decide all that and um all of

00:19:36.020 this. So the kind of Christianity that I'd like to see go away, and I'd like to see it sort of

00:19:41.980 bring back a more traditional form of Christianity that prevailed during Christendom. Well, what I

00:19:49.540 call, let's put it this way, I've tried to coin a word, I call it doormat Christianity. And I think

00:19:54.040 this is the modern form of Christianity, whereby Christians are taught, again, in keeping with what

00:19:59.260 I'm saying, this materialist idea, to just be doormats. Christianity begins and ends by you

00:20:04.920 being a doormat. You're non-confrontational, you lay down, everyone walks all over you, and then

00:20:09.400 you get to pat yourself on the shoulder and say, hey, look, I'm virtuous, I'm good. It's also a way

00:20:14.120 to make, it's a way of turning a vice, cowardice into a virtue, I think, and that's why it's become

00:20:20.980 very prevalent, what I call doormat Christianity. Doormat Christianity is not going to stand up

00:20:25.840 against Islam, and that's what we're seeing. In fact, that kind of Christianity, which is

00:20:30.880 completely about just being passive who do you think benefits from it most of all it's probably

00:20:36.560 the more of an enemy you are to christianity the more the prevalent form of doormat christianity

00:20:42.060 works and serves perfectly to empower the opposite um forces so i think christians need to recapture

00:20:50.820 and reclaim a sense of morality and a sense of the metaphysical because otherwise you don't it's

00:20:57.620 again I'm going back to the first premises these are these are the building

00:21:00.920 blocks without these I don't believe that let's say the Islam problem cannot

00:21:05.420 necessarily be addressed in and of itself you can't maintain a sort of this

00:21:10.220 current culture which with all its confusions and sort of break away from

00:21:14.060 Christianity and then be able to resist something like Islam I think it's all

00:21:18.740 very interconnected if you go back and you can easily see this go back a

00:21:22.700 century to the way Western Europeans and Westerners thought and Christians

00:21:26.540 thought, you wouldn't have this Islam problem at all. Even if it existed, it would immediately

00:21:31.660 be solved. So I think there's a lot of paralysis going on amongst Christians because they just

00:21:38.520 feel like, like I said, the best they can do is to just be what they've been taught and bred,

00:21:43.520 including, like I said, by forces that don't like Christianity. I saw a video in the Super Bowl

00:21:49.580 a couple of years ago. And as you know, Super Bowl commercials, Super Bowl commercials tend to,

00:21:55.940 They're very prominent and very mainstream.

00:21:58.940 And all it was was images of people washing people's feet.

00:22:03.440 But for some reason, all the people who were washing the feet looked like white, traditional Christian people.

00:22:08.840 And all the people getting their feet washed were, well, one was a trans man.

00:22:13.160 One was obviously, it was like on a migrant border and it was an illegal migrant.

00:22:17.740 One was a woman committing an abortion or at an abortion center.

00:22:21.680 And people are protesting, but another woman's washing her feet.

00:22:24.760 And one was a criminal and a policeman was washing his feet.

00:22:28.660 And then it ended up by saying Jesus didn't hate, he washed feet.

00:22:32.480 And you can just see that kind of message, how it is completely geared to weakening Christianity by also, but making you think you're being a good Christian.

00:22:41.060 Because there's no balance.

00:22:42.220 Of course, Jesus washed feet.

00:22:43.980 That's not my argument.

00:22:44.800 But there was a balance.

00:22:45.740 Jesus also hurled tables and made a court of whips and drove people and livestock out.

00:22:51.180 So there is a room, I believe, for, well, the Bible says so, righteous indignation that is at least funneled in a proper way.

00:22:58.860 And all of that, I guess, is missing.

00:23:01.180 And in as much as people don't get that, I think a lot of this is futile.

00:23:05.440 And I'll end it by what I call the two swords theology.

00:23:09.480 I just wrote a book that came out a few months ago.

00:23:11.600 It's called The Two Swords of Christ.

00:23:13.140 And it deals with the military orders and their battles with Islam, the Templars and the Hospitallers.

00:23:17.860 but there's a second meaning to the title and it's basically in Luke where Christ says he doesn't

00:23:23.980 have a garment sell it and buy a sword and the disciples say Lord here are two swords and he

00:23:28.080 says that is enough now of course the modern day Christians that means absolutely nothing it doesn't

00:23:32.820 mean anything about a real sword but of course there's a long and deep tradition pre-modern

00:23:37.020 especially medieval understanding which is the two swords one is spiritual which I think modern

00:23:41.880 Christians still accept, spiritual warfare, but one is secular warfare, okay? And that was the

00:23:48.440 whole rationale for just war. That was the whole rationale for the Crusades, which I'm sure a lot

00:23:54.400 of people think are not what they really were. But so that kind of mentality, and again, it's

00:24:00.380 not about physical, not necessarily literal. It's just about being bold and militant, at least

00:24:06.180 vocally and in your approach to what's happening. Because if you look back, you zoom out and see

00:24:11.680 what's been going on it's just been one incremental slow degrade and no matter

00:24:16.060 how many no matter what people are saying or doing or books or conferences

00:24:19.840 if you look at the scale it goes down little it's like one step forward three

00:24:24.340 steps back and that's how it's been going so I think in part with Christian

00:24:29.020 revival and the Islam threat Christians just need to again go to these first

00:24:33.760 things and really recapture a sense of a morality that is above and beyond just

00:24:39.520 physical considerations. And once that is done, because like I said, it's all interconnected,

00:24:44.720 the Islam question will become a lot easier to answer almost instinctively and very natively.

00:24:51.520 Okay. We're going to, I'm going to get Raymond back into the conversation in a moment. We're

00:24:55.380 going to take a short commercial break. We're going to leave you with, in a moment with Nicole

00:24:59.580 Negrady's modern day, holy war. I don't think any song could be better for today. I want to remind

00:25:06.800 you in turbulence, as you know, how this war is evolving, and particularly President Trump,

00:25:12.720 pretty blunt today, early in the day when he had the Irish prime minister in the Oval Office,

00:25:18.740 talking about the lack of NATO, NATO not coming forward to really support us in the naval endeavor

00:25:25.420 in the Straits of Hormuz. And that means they're not going to be there for the Red Sea,

00:25:29.140 which is the Suez Canal. So I think very, very disappointing.

00:25:33.500 Times of turbulence are going to be with us.

00:25:36.280 When I say turbulence and geopolitical risk, I mean war and the rumors of war.

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00:26:39.220 Short commercial break

00:26:41.420 Abram

00:26:42.500 Raymond Abraham is with us

00:26:46.020 Just gave an explosive talk

00:26:48.140 At Oxford on doormat Christianity

00:26:50.540 We'll break it all down

00:26:52.280 Next in the war room

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00:31:12.680 War Room.

00:31:13.780 Here's your host, Stephen K. Bannon.

00:31:19.340 Raymond, you made a great point.

00:31:22.520 We say this all the time.

00:31:23.480 When Islam roared out of the Saudi Arabian Peninsula, what, in the 7th century?

00:31:32.600 For those 100 years, the great cultures, ancient cultures, and many of them had accepted Christianity, Egypt and Syria being the two most significant, because the church was a desert church in those early years.

00:31:46.280 You had Egypt, Syria, Babylon, which is modern-day Iraq, Persia, another ancient society had been at war with the Roman Empire forever, and then Spain.

00:31:58.400 You had – and then eventually the Orthodox part of it, Constantinople, all that.

00:32:03.080 You had Byzantine culture, which was really the Roman East.

00:32:08.620 Unbelievable track record of overwhelming these societies and taking over their cultures.

00:32:14.740 Most people don't know that.

00:32:16.020 They thought they were Islamic.

00:32:17.260 No, they were either Zoroastrian, as the Persians were, or they had very deep roots in Christianity, North Africa.

00:32:23.700 I tell people all the time, St. Augustine, really, I think probably the greatest intellect we had in the early church, I think, was Berber.

00:32:31.300 He was North African.

00:32:33.160 You had the Desert Fathers in Egypt and Syria.

00:32:37.820 It was the Desert Church.

00:32:40.000 And, of course, you had all the saints that came out of the desert.

00:32:43.360 It really overwhelmed it.

00:32:44.520 And you really went to Oxford, which was set up, Cambridge and Oxford were set up as great centers of learning for Christianity when they were set up.

00:32:52.580 They've lost their way.

00:32:54.120 And you really hammered them on doormat Christianity.

00:32:57.720 Just explain to our audience what that means after they heard your talk.

00:33:02.680 And why did you come up with that topic to go to Oxford and really to throw down on?

00:33:08.800 Well, I think what they wanted was for me to primarily talk about Islam, and I did.

00:33:12.620 But, you know, I don't think it's useful to talk about Islam without the full context and understanding the vacuum within Christian civilization, which Islam is filling.

00:33:22.380 And so I decided to address the topic of doormat Christianity, by which I mean, again, this idea, this, you know, that a real Christian is, you know, just completely passive, always turns the other cheek, never judges, is never confrontational, just is a doormat.

00:33:39.220 and you know the temptation of that sort of interpretation is of course there's verses in

00:33:43.500 the bible that would seem to support that sort of thing but there's also other verses and

00:33:48.440 anecdotes from the new testament including jesus's life that don't and i find it interesting why does

00:33:53.940 it why do why do christians always like to focus on one without the other the same jesus who said

00:33:59.320 turn the other cheek didn't turn the other cheek when he was when he was actually slapped he

00:34:03.920 questioned and was confrontational with the person, the soldier who slapped him. And he also,

00:34:08.960 he engaged in violence. I think hurling tables and making a court of whips and whipping both

00:34:16.320 cattle and humans out of a temple is a violent expression. So I just feel that Christians need

00:34:22.580 to recapture and get a balance, a harmony. Okay. What is a heresy? A heresy is when you really

00:34:27.240 focus on one aspect of the faith and to the exclusion of everything else. And I believe that

00:34:33.020 to a great extent is what doormat Christianity has become. And that is why the greatest civilization

00:34:38.260 born of Christian mores and ethos, the West, is completely crumbling because of this social

00:34:44.640 paralysis that it's been infected by, which makes Christians think that all I have to do is

00:34:50.360 just pray and wait and listen to God and just do nothing and it'll get better. Well, that's kind of

00:34:57.120 what's been going on for decades. And look where the West is. Look where Europe is right now.

00:35:02.440 Like I said, Islam hasn't changed. It's been doing what it's been doing, swallowing up. If it managed to swallow up the older, as you were mentioning, Egypt and Syria and North Africa and all these nations that were the heart of the Christian world, this is where the theology was coming from.

00:35:19.960 this is where the church fathers were coming from and they were christian for centuries and if they

00:35:24.260 were able to be conquered and swallowed up do you think and europe we know it was the final bastion

00:35:29.580 it's called the west for a reason it was the final western appendage of christendom that still

00:35:34.980 didn't get conquered and portions of it did for long periods of time such as spain and the balkans

00:35:40.600 the mediterranean islands so people have forgotten all this history and the muslim impetus has not

00:35:46.740 changed whatsoever. But the West and Christians have completely dropped their guard and they don't

00:35:52.540 feel like they can ever engage in violence or even be confrontational. We're at a point where

00:35:57.980 Christians don't even have to engage in violence. That's the whole point. But it's going to get to

00:36:02.660 the point where if they don't do anything, it will be a matter of life or death, survival of the

00:36:08.540 fittest. But Christians can't even get to the point where they're assertive and confrontational

00:36:14.300 about their own particular beliefs vis-a-vis the other let's say islam and they always

00:36:19.580 you know these churches in your in england that i visited they frequently invite muslim imams to come

00:36:25.960 and proclaim quranic verses often the ones that are antithetical to christianity and no muslim

00:36:32.320 would ever do that okay and and so it's it's that divide have you ever heard okay have you ever

00:36:37.760 heard when you talk about when you talk about this interfaith dialogue have you ever heard

00:36:42.200 You're an expert. Have you ever heard of anywhere in the Muslim world where they've invited a Christian cleric, a Catholic priest or a Christian pastor into a mosque to claim the word of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, sir?

00:36:58.660 I've never heard. I don't necessarily discount it because there could be some fringe, you know, small mosque that is trying to make, you know, win brownie points with some Westerner.

00:37:08.020 But on a large scale level, the way we see it, the way Christians do it.

00:37:12.980 But Raymond, if that had happened, if that had happened, the Muslim world, they'd be beheaded as apostates.

00:37:20.460 The one thing about the Muslim world, whether it's Sunni or Shia, they self-police.

00:37:24.880 They self-police.

00:37:25.880 You see this happening in churches in England where this interfaith dialogue is what it's called.

00:37:31.780 It's really just kowtowing to Islam.

00:37:34.280 But Islam doesn't do that.

00:37:35.340 It's one way.

00:37:35.820 It's a one-way dialogue.

00:37:36.960 with you yeah one way i want to go back in history though with your writings and your books and if

00:37:43.880 we get a chance while we talk guys put the covers of the books back up um as it blew through persia

00:37:51.060 and it blew through egypt and it blew through north africa and it blew through syria and it

00:37:55.980 blew through babylon you know the tigers and euphrates and then started to blow through the

00:38:01.020 orthodox part roaring out of saudi arabia it was stopped really in in places like vienna and places

00:38:09.060 like tours uh which people don't realize how deep into deep into france that was and then eventually

00:38:16.160 it was uh reversed in spain and spain wanted back and as soon as spain wanted back they started the

00:38:23.320 exploration of the new world all of really modern history is tied to this its antecedents are tied

00:38:29.200 into this struggle between the Christian West and Islam.

00:38:34.640 But in reading your books, whether I'm talking about different sieges or, you know, in the

00:38:39.740 Mediterranean islands or in the Balkans or up in Europe, it was a confrontation.

00:38:46.320 If you had not confronted it with not just military power, but the internal fortification

00:38:55.660 and formation of a religion that, that informed you informed in your formation, told you that

00:39:04.160 you must fight for this, that you cannot surrender. If you surrender on this, then you're really not

00:39:09.640 a Christian. You're really not a believer in Christ. And the, the, what it gave the inner

00:39:14.800 energy of people is throughout your books. And I think that's the most, the two most important

00:39:20.560 lessons i think that are lost here is how these cultures and societies were very developed that

00:39:28.560 they took over and had deep religious practices particularly in persia as persia with uh with

00:39:34.360 what the myth the mythos religion and then zarasterism uh also up in syria had turned had

00:39:40.520 basically started to convert to christianity but they had other religions too same with egypt

00:39:44.480 Egypt has an ancient religious faith, but it also had many—I think you're of Egyptian descent—it also had a big Christian community.

00:39:54.780 Until it was confronted by the Christian West in places like from Vienna to Tours, and then later in Spain, until it was confronted, it was overwhelming everything.

00:40:08.900 And so the two lessons is—and they kind of teach a warrior's philosophy.

00:40:13.120 I think that's why so many young men are attracted to Islam.

00:40:17.240 Your thoughts, Raymond Ibrahim?

00:40:20.660 Absolutely.

00:40:21.540 And you nailed it with that.

00:40:23.460 The warrior ethos is so embedded within Islam, and that makes it, has made it originally in its origins, and in the now, very attractive to men.

00:40:33.040 Including Western men who grow up being told they have to be women, essentially, and emasculated or doormat Christians.

00:40:40.040 They find that appealing.

00:40:41.680 But little do they know that their own Christian tradition has a very rich tradition of standing up and fighting back, okay, the concept of just war.

00:40:53.940 All those, you know, you discussed all those battles and Vienna and Tours and it goes on.

00:40:59.500 Even the United States of America, think about it.

00:41:01.640 This is how this was a constant thing.

00:41:03.900 You know, even the United States of America's very first war as a nation was with Muslims who were acting and speaking just like ISIS, the Barbary pirates of North Africa who were kidnapping American sailors and holding and enslaving them and doing all sorts of vile things to them.

00:41:21.540 and when when Jefferson and Adams finally met with the Barbary ambassador and they said can't

00:41:27.820 we just be friends well you know we did we did nothing to you you can have your religion we'll

00:41:31.580 just trade and he just said according to our prophet Muhammad according to the Quran you are

00:41:36.840 the infidel you are the enemy it's our job to lay in wait and plunder you and enslave you and so

00:41:41.780 forth okay so even America's very first experience as a nation put aside all those other you know

00:41:48.080 what we were talking about, Vienna and all these major battles. And, you know, you also made a good

00:41:52.300 point about, it's true, the entire exploration age, as it's called, was also a reflection of

00:41:58.600 this nonstop, constant struggle coming primarily from Islam. Christopher Columbus, and even before

00:42:05.840 him, the Portuguese, Prince Henry, for example, the reason they were trying to navigate and go

00:42:10.200 around Africa was always in the context of the crusade against Islam, including to recapture

00:42:16.180 the Holy Land from Muslims. This would be in the 1400s, Prince Henry, for example. But then even

00:42:22.600 later, Columbus, remember, Isabella and Ferdinand were avowed crusaders against Islam in Spain.

00:42:30.860 And they were the culmination of the Reconquista and getting rid of Islam after having dealt with

00:42:37.560 it for seven, eight centuries. And why did they get Columbus in their employ? It was in the context

00:42:44.040 of continuing the crusade. Now we've evicted them. Now we have to go back to the Holy War.

00:42:48.540 And the reason they had to sail is because Christians could not travel by land to the east

00:42:53.460 because that was where the Muslims, the Ottomans and the Mamluks in Egypt. And once you enter

00:42:58.920 there, you're killed or enslaved immediately. So that's why they were looking for different

00:43:04.040 passages. So it's amazing when you think about the very history of the founding, the existence

00:43:09.200 of the West is so heavily shaped by Islam in a negative way, in a violent way. One historian

00:43:16.500 says Islam was a violent midwife that gave birth to the West. Henry Perrin said the dark ages and

00:43:23.360 the rise of feudalism and Charlemagne would have been impossible without Muhammad. You know,

00:43:28.500 they're very intertwined, but not in a good way. And yet that's all been lost on so many Westerners,

00:43:34.480 which is why I wrote these books, you know, to document all this and bring it back.

00:43:38.540 But it's so lost on Westerners who've been, you know, believing that Islam is peace.

00:43:44.100 And, you know, John Esposito, the professor from Georgetown, he says five centuries of peaceful coexistence elapsed between Muslims and Christians

00:43:53.300 until an imperial papal power play led to a series of so-called holy wars, which have left the legacy of enduring mistrust.

00:44:00.920 So basically those centuries we're talking about when Muslims conquered the old Christian world and Persia, and we didn't even talk about further east conquering India and Pakistan, of course, were our Indians who became Muslims after about 80 million of them were killed between 1100 and 1500 and further east and into sub-Saharan Africa, of course, where now we're seeing Muslims slaughtering and engaged in genocide against Christians.

00:44:28.480 And so all this is just, you know, yesterday was yesterday, the day before was combat combat Islamophobia day, according to the U.N.

00:44:37.580 OK, that's what we're talking about. Not not this.

00:44:40.780 No, this is ridiculous. Can we in the time we have left, given that we're in a kinetic war driven by and I realize, oh, it's the nuclear weapon.

00:44:52.100 It's this and that it's this and that it is at its essence. It's radical Islam.

00:44:57.060 I'm not saying that we should have gone at the time we went or how we went.

00:45:00.520 That's a discussion for another day.

00:45:03.880 But you cannot talk about what's happened in Persian Iran without getting to the core of it,

00:45:10.440 that this is one of the most radical, not the most radical part of Islam in this whole thing with the Mahdi and the Imam.

00:45:18.460 It almost seems like people, oh, my gosh, we got to go back after 9-11.

00:45:21.800 We have to go back after, you know, after the Iraq war or after the during the Iraq war or during the time of President Trump put the put the travel ban in.

00:45:31.480 We have to go back and study it. Yes, you have to, because a lot of Westerners like people in London, the elites in London, people in Norway, people in Sweden, people in New York City, some people in Texas.

00:45:44.860 They believe if you just don't confront it and you look the other way, it's going to take care of itself and everything is going to be fine.

00:45:52.800 I'm here to disabuse you of that.

00:45:55.740 And I can point to some of the smartest people in the world and some of the best researchers and writers in the world.

00:46:00.960 They give you a historical record where that is the exact that does definitely does not work.

00:46:06.360 In fact, it will lead you to be conquered.

00:46:09.740 Raymond, in the time we have left now, given your historical perspective of their previous

00:46:14.320 invasions, do we have a fighting chance, given the weak-willed nature of our elites and our

00:46:21.420 political systems in the Christian West, and particularly the United States of America,

00:46:25.960 to combat this, to stop it, and then to reverse it, sir?

00:46:29.160 I think, you know, the West has definitely the material forces, the economy to do what

00:46:37.180 needs to be done and but it's as you say the question is the will and um i i i don't know

00:46:44.500 because um the way i see it i i see things from a very kind of zoomed out long view with historical

00:46:51.080 continuities and if you look even at the west just the last 50 years 60 70 years it's a continuous

00:46:57.000 downhill um and there's you know it's locked it's it's connected with its civilizational

00:47:03.040 degradation okay it's it's culture it's morals um you know this it's funny i don't know if i

00:47:09.300 mentioned this to you before but the historical islamic conquests that we know that we were

00:47:13.560 talking about in the 7th century um you know historians still really can't give you an answer

00:47:18.200 how it happened because eastern roman empire the persian sassanians were very powerful

00:47:22.500 and no one really how can some you know just a small band of arabs described even in muslim

00:47:27.840 sources as just having you know being naked and whatever weapons they can find how could they

00:47:32.400 conquer two empires and then overrun all these massive lands. And, you know, today's historians

00:47:38.280 can't give you a good answer, but they'll come up with something and I can give you what they say.

00:47:41.900 But the Christians of the time who lived there, they were convinced it was God's punishment,

00:47:47.020 that God had raised these people up to chastise them for their sins. And ironically, the most

00:47:54.200 influential writing, it's known as the Apocalypse by Pseudo-Methodius, and it was published around

00:47:59.820 690 at the height of the Arab conquests. It came out in Syriac, but it continued influencing

00:48:05.000 Christians. Even in 1683 at the Siege of Vienna, it was being translated and published within Vienna

00:48:10.620 to explain why Christians were being attacked by the Turks. And that one says not only because

00:48:15.900 Christians had lost their way, but it was due to sexual immorality. And it actually talked about

00:48:21.880 men cross-dressing, women acting like men. And it was very, very hugely popular. Now, of course,

00:48:27.360 from a secular historical point of view that's nonsense that's not why you know islam prevailed

00:48:32.420 but when i look at the current situation today and i see the west is so much more powerful

00:48:37.300 than byzantium and the persians were vis-a-vis arabia the west now is much more powerful vis-a-vis

00:48:44.500 the islamic world and yet look at what's happening muslims are overrunning europe they're having

00:48:50.160 their way christian churches are allowing them to come in and proclaim the shahada while like you

00:48:55.600 said that you know it's not it's not it's a one-way sort of cultural or religious dialogue

00:49:00.740 so i'm wondering to what extent is this the punishment of god because you know centuries

00:49:06.120 down the line you know when the world completely changed posterity will look back and this will be

00:49:11.400 an even greater mystery than the original seventh century conquest because all they'll know is well

00:49:16.120 we know that europe and the west was really really powerful and we know that muslim world wasn't and

00:49:21.400 that there were migrants, but somehow or other they took over, and it's really a mystery. So I

00:49:26.240 wonder if it's the same reason given by Pseudo-Methodius in the apocalypse, which is, you

00:49:30.520 know, complete immorality, turning away from God, highlighted and underscored, especially by sexual,

00:49:36.920 gender-confused type of immorality. Raymond, where is your institute now? Where do they get

00:49:44.560 you for your writings, and where do they go for you, particularly for your books?

00:49:47.540 thanks steve uh my books you can probably get the easiest way to get them is on amazon

00:49:53.160 um sword and scimitar defenders of the west two swords of christ there's other books i've written

00:49:57.540 as well and um i also have a sub stack uh you can follow me there it's just my name raymond

00:50:03.160 abraham and i also have a youtube station where you can see my talk uh that i gave at the um at

00:50:09.360 the oxford and also the interesting question i was asked no we're playing well we didn't have

00:50:16.480 chance to put up the questions we're going to put that up on our live streams questions are quite

00:50:20.820 interesting look forward to having you back and particularly updates as we as we work through

00:50:25.040 this kinetic conflict in uh in ancient persia raymond thank you so much for joining us i

00:50:31.120 appreciate you always thank you steve can't recommend those books enough they're page

00:50:37.880 turners you feel you're reading novels it's just really really really amazing um

00:50:42.340 we're gonna be back at 10 a.m eastern daylight time uh tomorrow there's absolutely so much going

00:50:51.280 on we're trying to cover it all either on the show or during the live streams or up on getter

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00:51:57.680 break a long break we'll see you tomorrow morning at 10 a.m eastern day of time we'll be back in the

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Bannon's War Room - March 30, 2026

WarRoom Battleground EP 978： Budapest Special： The Enemy Abroad; Radical Islam's Attempt To Conquer The West

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